Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - Re: Build Time (John Jessen)
2. 12:17 AM - Re: Build Time (Sean Stephens)
3. 01:08 AM - Re: Build Time (Werner Schneider)
4. 06:37 AM - AFS primer (Jay Brinkmeyer)
5. 06:55 AM - Re: Build Time (Jesse Saint)
6. 07:02 AM - European builders was: Re: Rudder Pedal Placement. ()
7. 07:24 AM - Lighting question ()
8. 08:05 AM - Re: Lighting question (John Jessen)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: Build Time (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
10. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Mark)
11. 08:51 AM - Re: Build Time (John Jessen)
12. 09:23 AM - Re: Lighting question (Larry)
13. 09:29 AM - Re: Lighting question (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
14. 09:48 AM - panel prep (David McNeill)
15. 09:59 AM - Re: Build Time (Mark & Kelly)
16. 10:18 AM - Re: Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Tim Olson)
17. 10:21 AM - Re: Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Tim Olson)
18. 10:46 AM - Re: N Number Fonts (Dan Checkoway)
19. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
20. 11:03 AM - Re: panel prep (Stein Bruch)
21. 11:32 AM - Re: Build Time (Randy DeBauw)
22. 11:58 AM - Re: N Number Fonts (John W. Cox)
23. 11:58 AM - Re: Build Time (John Jessen)
24. 12:11 PM - Re: N Number Fonts (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
25. 12:18 PM - Re: N Number Fonts (Jim Combs)
26. 12:33 PM - Re: Build Time (Jeff Carpenter)
27. 12:48 PM - Re: panel prep (Gary Specketer)
28. 01:31 PM - Re: Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (James Ochs)
29. 01:32 PM - What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10 flying with the 3 bladed MT? (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
30. 01:57 PM - Re: panel prep (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
31. 02:07 PM - Re: Build Time (Gary Specketer)
32. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Tim Olson)
33. 03:10 PM - Re: Build Time (Randy DeBauw)
34. 03:15 PM - Re: What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10 flying with the 3 bladed MT? (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
35. 05:01 PM - Re: Build Time (Mark)
36. 07:49 PM - Re: Re: Re: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS (Richard Sipp)
37. 10:29 PM - Re: What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10 flying with the 3 bladed MT? (Eric Panning)
Message 1
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d="scan'208"; a="48274019:sNHT31211216"
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was working
on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of good work in,
plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I tend to work alone,
just because I like it that way. I know someone was advocating partnering,
and I agree it would help speed things along, but it's just not my style.
I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do slow build
wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be getting
antsy to move faster), so that will take more time.
But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at least 3.
If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone, then I may
change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings. My son
will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the engine,
I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for six months,
although the interior will get plenty of attention.
That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather not ponder
it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already thinking about
the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats. With the folding
wings, it might just fit next to the RV!
John Jessen
(Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and mods
in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this thing is
going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build process,
but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12... and if I'm taking
longer than I should, is it that I need a different tool or spend too much
time deburring?
I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be helped
along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing relative to the
group.
Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived. I'm
sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some notion that
the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I begin
work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've stopped work.
My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It doesn't
include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or reading
these e-mails.
I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything aluminum
until I get to the cabin.
I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't
reach both sides of a rivet).
My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it
during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees and
customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm
considering shooting my own paint.
I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the tip
ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators and
have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the pro-seal
to dry on the tabs.
Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
N410CF
OSH 09
Message 2
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
~200 seems to be a rough average for the emp kit if I remember the
database from the Yahoo groups.
It took me almost exactly 200 hours to finish the emp kit which includes
priming everything "inside" and attaching the fairings (including
glassing and filling the seam lines at the fairing attach points.
It does vary quite a bit though. However, I think 2000 hours is a
really good estimate for completion.
-Sean #40303 ailerons
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
> different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs
> and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long
> this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I
> enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4
> years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I
> need a different tool or spend too much time deburring?
>
> I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be
> helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing
> relative to the group.
>
> Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
>
> I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit
> arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and
> have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
> 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
> 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when
> I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've
> stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the
> inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the
> manual before bed or reading these e-mails.
>
> I've previously built the tail of an RV-6
> I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin.
> I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I
> can't reach both sides of a rivet).
> My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on
> it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my
> employees and customers
> I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm
> considering shooting my own paint.
>
> I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the
> tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
>
> I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the
> elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I
> waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs.
>
> Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> N410CF
> OSH 09
>
>
Message 3
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Werner Schneider" <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Jeff,
no RV-10 experience yet, I did build a Glastar in 3.5 years and aprox. 2500
hrs, I did also work most of the time by myself, the cell was finished after
about 1500 hrs, the rest (interior, fw forward, panel, electric etc plus
finishing another 1000 hrs, the last half year I was working 4 days with
about 10 hrs a day full speed. I calculated later the quickbuild wing it
would have saved about 400 hrs.
Not an RV-10 but I like it and dreaming about my next project (maybe a 10).
Werner
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff@westcottpress.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
> different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs
> and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long
> this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I
> enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4
> years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I
> need a different tool or spend too much time deburring?
>
> I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be
> helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing
> relative to the group.
>
> Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
>
> I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit
> arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and
> have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
> 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
> 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when
> I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've
> stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the
> inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the
> manual before bed or reading these e-mails.
>
> I've previously built the tail of an RV-6
> I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin.
> I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I
> can't reach both sides of a rivet).
> My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on
> it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my
> employees and customers
> I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm
> considering shooting my own paint.
>
> I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the
> tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
>
> I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the
> elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I
> waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs.
>
> Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> N410CF
> OSH 09
>
>
Message 4
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=qGXDCqyjXrFELvOVOBdEMIamamd186VZMUyDX9ljIGqXWBcw6UYjFIBNToU5hPrZhTtQd22p8g/CF2c8XS6VfZb4G9NQKetln75vGrMK+Ww0qBd4yhKPcNehjQ2N9GNvBIRmcYAXj7y6Yf7Ct+r6q+ueqUYcUANePrVoGGXzuAw=
;
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jay Brinkmeyer <jaybrinkmeyer@yahoo.com>
Correct... All AFS priming so far has been on the inside. I have no idea how it
holds up under "real" paint, but I'll bet someone out there has used it.
Jay
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Time: 01:35:53 PM PST US
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: was: Eeerie Paint Coincidence!!
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Jay,
Have you used the AFS *under* the painted surface? I think Byron's
worried about how the primer will work as a primer for paint, not
just as a protective primer. I haven't heard of anyone yet using
it through the entire project...if you have, your input would be
great to have on how compatible it is with other paints for
that use.
__________________________________
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
Message 5
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
We will probably have about 2500 hours by the time we're done. About 100 of
those to go, we think.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs
and mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long
this thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I
enjoy the build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4
years or 12... and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I
need a different tool or spend too much time deburring?
I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be
helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing
relative to the group.
Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit
arrived. I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and
have some notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when
I begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've
stopped work. My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the
inventory. It doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the
manual before bed or reading these e-mails.
I've previously built the tail of an RV-6
I'm not priming anything aluminum until I get to the cabin.
I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I
can't reach both sides of a rivet).
My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on
it during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my
employees and customers
I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm
considering shooting my own paint.
I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the
tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the
elevators and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I
waited for the pro-seal to dry on the tabs.
Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
N410CF
OSH 09
Message 6
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| Subject: | Rudder Pedal Placement. |
Nice to see more and more "tens" being built even in good ol' Europe.
Henkjan, I'm almost in the same situation too: being 1.70m big(?) and
without PPL. After almost 6 month and 300h the empennage is nearing
completion.
Lorenz Malmstrm, Switzerland (that other small country)
40280 Empennage
http://www.malmstrom.ch
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henkjan van der Zouw [mailto:henkjan@zme.nl]
> Sent: Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2005 16:45
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Placement.
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Henkjan van der Zouw"
<henkjan@zme.nl>
>
> I'm almost in the same situation!, that means in the background for
> months, no PPL, 1 meter 76, wanted it for 40 years!.
> Purchased an RV10 kit (40355) in February and started building May
21th,
> i'm living in The Netherlands (the small country in Europe) were
> building an aircraft is not a common thing to do.
> Hope to meet some of you someday, maybe difficult because of the big
> ocean in between, I was following the race for first flight every day
> and viewed Randy's and Tim's site a lot as well as the great movies.
> Have to come over to the US again in the future after getting my PPL
to
> do a transition course on th RV10 somewhere, it seems a lot safer to
me
> tobe instructed how to fly a 10 by someone experienced, any
volunteers?.
>
> Regards
>
> Henkjan van der Zouw
>
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] Namens richard cannella
> Verzonden: donderdag 16 juni 2005 13:53
> Aan: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Onderwerp: Re: RV10-List: Rudder Pedal Placement.
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: richard cannella <ric52md@yahoo.com>
>
>
>
> --- Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
> > <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> > Out of dumb luck, I'm just over 6'1" too, and I
> > happened to install
> > my pedals in the forward holes.
> >
>
> I've been hiding here in the background for months
> now. I don't have my PPL but was planning to start in
> a month or two(something I've wanted to do for 30
> years) and get an RV10 to build next fall. But after
> reading everyone's 6'1", I'm beginning to think I'm to
> short to be a pilot(5'6"). Will I have to build a
> model plane from the local hobby shop to reach the
> pedals(and still need a phone book to sit on)????
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check
it
> out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Lighting question |
I know that most of you in the US opt for an IFR equipped plane. In
Switzerland however =96 as in most other European countries =96 only day VFR
operations are permitted in experimental aircraft. So in fact lighting
is not required at all which would save money, weight and build time.
What is sacrificed is of course safety even in day VFR conditions. But
as I am not an active pilot myself (yet), I can=92t judge what really
makes sense. Landing lights of final probably makes sense on hazy days.
Strobes: expensive, heavy(?), electrically challenging, certainly makes
you more visible =96 but how much? Position lights: I can=92t see any
usefulness in VFR, but of course I can miss the obvious.
So, is there a serious alternative to =91the full monty=92?
What thoughts do you have? Do you have a story where your lights saved
your day (not night!) ;-)
Thank you!
Lorenz
40280 Empennage
http://www.malmstrom.ch <http://www.malmstrom.ch/>
Message 8
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d="scan'208,217"; a="48401194:sNHT92816030"
| Subject: | Lighting question |
You should have the standard wingtip and tail lighting from Vans. What that
means is a strobe in the rear and one at each wingtip, position lights, and
landing lights. You want the landing lights because even in day VFR you
want those on the ground or in the pattern to know you're coming, obviously.
You want the position lights because one day you won't make it to your
destination until just before dark and they help, not as much as the
strobes, but some. Besides, I think if you ever wanted to sell the plane to
someone in the States, it would help to have them. You want the strobes for
twilight and hazy day safety, along with the selling factor. So, full
Monty. I wouldn't skip by these at all. If you decide to do so, however,
at least run the wires for the lights so that if you want to sell the plane
to someone who wants to put them in, they are all set.
My opinion only
John Jessen
(VS and rudder moving along nicely, except for those countersinks.
Wonder if they're too deep).
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lorenz Malmstr=F6m
Subject: RV10-List: Lighting question
I know that most of you in the US opt for an IFR equipped plane. In
Switzerland however =96 as in most other European countries =96 only day VFR
operations are permitted in experimental aircraft. So in fact lighting is
not required at all which would save money, weight and build time. What is
sacrificed is of course safety even in day VFR conditions. But as I am not
an active pilot myself (yet), I can=92t judge what really makes sense. Landing
lights of final probably makes sense on hazy days. Strobes: expensive,
heavy(?), electrically challenging, certainly makes you more visible =96 but
how much? Position lights: I can=92t see any usefulness in VFR, but of course
I can miss the obvious.
So, is there a serious alternative to =91the full monty=92?
What thoughts do you have? Do you have a story where your lights saved your
day (not night!) ;-)
Thank you!
Lorenz
40280 Empennage
http://www.malmstrom.ch <http://www.malmstrom.ch/>
Message 9
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was
working on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of
good work in, plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I
tend to work alone, just because I like it that way. I know someone was
advocating partnering, and I agree it would help speed things along, but
it's just not my style.
I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do slow
build wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be
getting antsy to move faster), so that will take more time.
But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at least
3.
If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone, then I
may change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings. My
son will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the
engine, I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for
six months, although the interior will get plenty of attention.
That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather not
ponder it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already
thinking about the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats.
With the folding wings, it might just fit next to the RV!
John Jessen
(Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Carpenter
Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and
mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this
thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the
build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12...
and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a different
tool or spend too much time deburring?
I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be
helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing
relative to the group.
Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived.
I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some
notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I
begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've
stopped work.
My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It
doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed
or reading these e-mails.
I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything
aluminum until I get to the cabin.
I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't
reach both sides of a rivet).
My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it
during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees
and customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall
forward. I'm considering shooting my own paint.
I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the
tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators
and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the
pro-seal to dry on the tabs.
Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
N410CF
OSH 09
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
One last point about vertical steering....remember that
the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not
using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being
run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.
Tim,
First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you can be so
far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and answering questions
from people like me :-)
When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying that if
the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a runway, that the Chelton
can vertically drive an AP down to the runway, even though it may not be
an actual approach? This would be great, because in the manual, it says that
you can set up a VFR approach with HITS to any runway. I realize this can't
be used IFR, but it still would be very useful.
Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of the functionality
of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would sell alot more
units!
Thanks,
Mark
Message 11
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d="scan'208"; a="48421445:sNHT33979384"
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
So, at 2200 hours, let's say that I can put in an average of 20 hours per
week, given I travel some and there are others you have to pay attention to
every once in awhile, that'd be 110 weeks or a little over 2 years. I can
live with that type of calculation. If it takes 2.5 or 2.75 years, fine. I
know I'll be impatient when I get as far as the panel and doors, because by
then it's becoming a reality and you want to get it in the air. Right now
it's still a bunch of parts and I'd rather not think too far out. Could get
discouraging.
John Jessen
(Countersinks might be too deep, but they look neat.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was working
on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of good work in,
plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I tend to work alone,
just because I like it that way. I know someone was advocating partnering,
and I agree it would help speed things along, but it's just not my style.
I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do slow build
wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be getting
antsy to move faster), so that will take more time.
But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at least 3.
If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone, then I may
change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings. My son
will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the engine,
I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for six months,
although the interior will get plenty of attention.
That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather not ponder
it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already thinking about
the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats.
With the folding wings, it might just fit next to the RV!
John Jessen
(Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and mods
in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this thing is
going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build process,
but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12...
and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a different tool
or spend too much time deburring?
I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be helped
along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing relative to the
group.
Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived.
I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some notion
that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I begin
work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've stopped work.
My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It doesn't
include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or reading
these e-mails.
I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything aluminum
until I get to the cabin.
I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't
reach both sides of a rivet).
My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it
during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees and
customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm
considering shooting my own paint.
I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the tip
ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators and
have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the pro-seal
to dry on the tabs.
Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
N410CF
OSH 09
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Lighting question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I would think rear and 2 wing tip strobes and wig wag landing lights in
the wing tips would work well. I would pass on the nav lights. Leave
room or pull the wire for future nav light installation.
My opinion only
Larry Rosen
John Jessen wrote:
> You should have the standard wingtip and tail lighting from Vans. What
> that means is a strobe in the rear and one at each wingtip, position
> lights, and landing lights. You want the landing lights because even
> in day VFR you want those on the ground or in the pattern to know
> you're coming, obviously. You want the position lights because one day
> you won't make it to your destination until just before dark and they
> help, not as much as the strobes, but some. Besides, I think if you
> ever wanted to sell the plane to someone in the States, it would help
> to have them. You want the strobes for twilight and hazy day safety,
> along with the selling factor. So, full Monty. I wouldn't skip by
> these at all. If you decide to do so, however, at least run the wires
> for the lights so that if you want to sell the plane to someone who
> wants to put them in, they are all set.
> My opinion only
> John Jessen
> (VS and rudder moving along nicely, except for those countersinks.
> Wonder if they're too deep).
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Lorenz Malmstrm
> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2005 7:24 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Lighting question
>
> I know that most of you in the US opt for an IFR equipped plane.
> In Switzerland however as in most other European countries
> only day VFR operations are permitted in experimental aircraft. So
> in fact lighting is not required at all which would save money,
> weight and build time. What is sacrificed is of course safety even
> in day VFR conditions. But as I am not an active pilot myself
> (yet), I cant judge what really makes sense. Landing lights of
> final probably makes sense on hazy days. Strobes: expensive,
> heavy(?), electrically challenging, certainly makes you more
> visible but how much? Position lights: I cant see any
> usefulness in VFR, but of course I can miss the obvious.
>
> So, is there a serious alternative to the full monty?
>
> What thoughts do you have? Do you have a story where your lights
> saved your day (not night!) ;-)
>
> Thank you!
>
> Lorenz
>
> 40280 Empennage
>
> http://www.malmstrom.ch <http://www.malmstrom.ch/>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Lighting question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Instead of three small strobes, I'm using one big strobe I got surplus off of a
1000' television tower. It should be powerful enough to kill any bird in a 100-yard
radius, too . . .
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lighting question
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I would think rear and 2 wing tip strobes and wig wag landing lights in
the wing tips would work well. I would pass on the nav lights. Leave
room or pull the wire for future nav light installation.
My opinion only
Larry Rosen
John Jessen wrote:
> You should have the standard wingtip and tail lighting from Vans. What
> that means is a strobe in the rear and one at each wingtip, position
> lights, and landing lights. You want the landing lights because even
> in day VFR you want those on the ground or in the pattern to know
> you're coming, obviously. You want the position lights because one day
> you won't make it to your destination until just before dark and they
> help, not as much as the strobes, but some. Besides, I think if you
> ever wanted to sell the plane to someone in the States, it would help
> to have them. You want the strobes for twilight and hazy day safety,
> along with the selling factor. So, full Monty. I wouldn't skip by
> these at all. If you decide to do so, however, at least run the wires
> for the lights so that if you want to sell the plane to someone who
> wants to put them in, they are all set.
> My opinion only
> John Jessen
> (VS and rudder moving along nicely, except for those countersinks.
> Wonder if they're too deep).
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Lorenz Malmstrm
> *Sent:* Friday, June 17, 2005 7:24 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Lighting question
>
> I know that most of you in the US opt for an IFR equipped plane.
> In Switzerland however as in most other European countries
> only day VFR operations are permitted in experimental aircraft. So
> in fact lighting is not required at all which would save money,
> weight and build time. What is sacrificed is of course safety even
> in day VFR conditions. But as I am not an active pilot myself
> (yet), I cant judge what really makes sense. Landing lights of
> final probably makes sense on hazy days. Strobes: expensive,
> heavy(?), electrically challenging, certainly makes you more
> visible but how much? Position lights: I cant see any
> usefulness in VFR, but of course I can miss the obvious.
>
> So, is there a serious alternative to the full monty?
>
> What thoughts do you have? Do you have a story where your lights
> saved your day (not night!) ;-)
>
> Thank you!
>
> Lorenz
>
> 40280 Empennage
>
> http://www.malmstrom.ch <http://www.malmstrom.ch/>
>
Message 14
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The panel on my Glastar was cut entirely by myself; results were good but very
time consuming. Anybody have experience with a company that can cut a panel; perhaps
an avionics shop with laser cut facilities?
Message 15
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2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy
Randy,
Is this based on the QB or standard kits? I couldn't tell from the original post.
Thanks,
Mark
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Remember that I haven't flown behind this yet, but, here's
my understanding regarding your question....
Yes, if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance to the
runway, it should be able to drive your digital
Digiflight II VSGV down to the runway....and you're right
that it may not be an actual approach. I don't know if this
carries true for VFR approaches or not. But, the approaches
in it's database for most IFR approaches should have the
proper info in it, so, you should be able to load, say,
an ILS and let the Chelton drive the AP down the slope...while
monitoring the needles yourself. If you note a discrepency
between the needles and the HITS boxes, you go with the needles.
That part comes from the DVD training video that I got
from Direct2Avionics.
I also pointed out to Josh now they needed to add more to their
site....such as more info on weather, and actually hosting
some manuals theirself would be good idea.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Mark wrote:
> /*One last point about vertical steering....remember that
> the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not
> using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being
> run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/
> /**/
> Tim,
>
> First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you
> can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and
> answering questions from people like me :-)
>
> When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying
> that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a
> runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway,
> even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great,
> because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with
> HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it
> still would be very useful.
>
> Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of
> the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would
> sell alot more units!
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Forgot to add, to clarify....
The Chelton does not have any +/- 150mV stuff in it at
all, so, it won't drive ANY autopilot using those
signals, nor will it receive that particular signal from
any unit at this time. It does receive the information
via RS232 though, but that isn't the signal used to
drive CDI's, and autopilots using +/- 150mV signals.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Mark wrote:
> /*One last point about vertical steering....remember that
> the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not
> using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being
> run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/
> /**/
> Tim,
>
> First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you
> can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and
> answering questions from people like me :-)
>
> When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying
> that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a
> runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway,
> even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great,
> because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with
> HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it
> still would be very useful.
>
> Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of
> the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would
> sell alot more units!
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: N Number Fonts |
Jeez guys. Stop spreading misinformation and read the FARs! Part 45, particularly
45.29, is very specific about this.
http://checkoway.com/url/?s21b6a8b0
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (514 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: lyf@meritel.net
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
The N Numbers just need to
be Block Type lettering . that was how it was explained to me by an FAA
inspector here in my area. just fyi.
Lyf Halvorsen
lyf@meritel.net
Randy DeBauw wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
As I remember it the rule is a font that is readable from 500 feet
without any visual aid (binoculars). That is for the 12" numbers.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Subject: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
Somewhere a while back I remember reading about several aricraft that
were grounded by the FAA when they deemed that N Numbers did not meet
published FAA specs. These were aircraft that had been recently painted
and the painters had taken liberty with the N Number Font.
>From everywhere I have searched, I have only found ARIAL BOLD or ARIAL
BOLD ITALIC as the approved font for N-Numbers.
Yet in several recent pictures, it is obvious that other fonts are being
used.
Anyone know if this is a problem or not?
The paint jobs are really fantastic and it would be nice to be able to
be a little creative, but what are the limits to being creative and
being grounded by the FAA?
Thanks, Jim C
#40192 - Fuselage
N312F Reserved
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
Here's a great picture from Van's Hobbs Meter off their site. Two -10s
fly from the same location on the same day! One is the "Tim Paint
Scheme Look-Alike" :)
<http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/pair_of_tens_lg.jpg>
-Sean #40303 (ailerons - Dang, that leading edge skin is hard to cleco
on top)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
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Message 20
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d="scan'208,217"; a="382779330:sNHT1143668492"
One of the best guys out there is Ross at Experimental Air
(http://www.experimentalair.com). He uses waterjet cutting, and will layout
your panel for you. The results are wonderful!
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:43 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: panel prep
The panel on my Glastar was cut entirely by myself; results were good but
very time consuming. Anybody have experience with a company that can cut a
panel; perhaps an avionics shop with laser cut facilities?
Message 21
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Well in a couple of weeks walk next door and I will give you a ride and
you will not be discouraged. This plane is a blast to build and you
should enjoy the time spent. If not quicken the process as much as you
can by having the panel, paint, wiring, and fiberglass work done by
someone else and go all quick build. I would bet that your build time
could be in the 1500 hour range. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
So, at 2200 hours, let's say that I can put in an average of 20 hours
per week, given I travel some and there are others you have to pay
attention to every once in awhile, that'd be 110 weeks or a little over
2 years. I can live with that type of calculation. If it takes 2.5 or
2.75 years, fine. I know I'll be impatient when I get as far as the
panel and doors, because by then it's becoming a reality and you want to
get it in the air. Right now it's still a bunch of parts and I'd rather
not think too far out. Could get discouraging.
John Jessen
(Countersinks might be too deep, but they look neat.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was
working on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of
good work in, plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I
tend to work alone, just because I like it that way. I know someone was
advocating partnering, and I agree it would help speed things along, but
it's just not my style.
I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do slow
build wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be
getting antsy to move faster), so that will take more time.
But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at least
3.
If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone, then I
may change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings. My
son will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the
engine, I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for
six months, although the interior will get plenty of attention.
That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather not
ponder it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already
thinking about the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats.
With the folding wings, it might just fit next to the RV!
John Jessen
(Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Carpenter
Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and
mods in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this
thing is going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the
build process, but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12...
and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a different
tool or spend too much time deburring?
I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be
helped along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing
relative to the group.
Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived.
I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some
notion that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I
begin work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've
stopped work.
My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It
doesn't include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed
or reading these e-mails.
I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything
aluminum until I get to the cabin.
I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't
reach both sides of a rivet).
My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it
during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees
and customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall
forward. I'm considering shooting my own paint.
I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the
tip ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators
and have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the
pro-seal to dry on the tabs.
Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
N410CF
OSH 09
Message 22
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Dan's post is "Dead On" exactly what was taught in school. I just spoke to Randy's
DAR regarding where heart-burn begins here in VANS country. On Italics,
when the slant exceeds the vertical by more than the prescribed points. ie.
If you take the lower right corner and project it vertically (90 degrees from
the horizontal baseline) to the upper left corner of the character ONE or INDIA
and your slant is beyond that point. Heartburn begins. If you stay vertical
- No Problem.
Craig has given two sets of specific styles which will always get you "Safe at Home". http://www.schemedesigners.com/samples-registration.htm
The second heartburn comes when the colors of fonts are not clearly contrasting.
Remember Randy's reference of the 500 foot without binocular rule. At OSH,
you will see a number of aircraft pushing that definition of contrast. But I
agree with Dan, don't buy off on misinformation... Read. Ask your tech advisor
often.
John - KUAO
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
Jeez guys. Stop spreading misinformation and read the FARs! Part 45, particularly
45.29,is very specific about this.
http://checkoway.com/url/?s=21b6a8b0
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (514 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: lyf@meritel.net
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
The N Numbers just need to
be Block Type lettering . that was how it was explained to me by an FAA
inspector here in my area. just fyi.
Lyf Halvorsen
lyf@meritel.net
Randy DeBauw wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
As I remember it the rule is a font that is readable from 500 feet
without any visual aid (binoculars). That is for the 12" numbers.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Subject: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
Somewhere a while back I remember reading about several aricraft that
were grounded by the FAA when they deemed that N Numbers did not meet
published FAA specs. These were aircraft that had been recently painted
and the painters had taken liberty with the N Number Font.
>From everywhere I have searched, I have only found ARIAL BOLD or ARIAL
BOLD ITALIC as the approved font for N-Numbers.
Yet in several recent pictures, it is obvious that other fonts are being
used.
Anyone know if this is a problem or not?
The paint jobs are really fantastic and it would be nice to be able to
be a little creative, but what are the limits to being creative and
being grounded by the FAA?
Thanks, Jim C
#40192 - Fuselage
N312F Reserved
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
Here's a great picture from Van's Hobbs Meter off their site. Two -10s
fly from the same location on the same day! One is the "Tim Paint
Scheme Look-Alike" :)
<http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/pair_of_tens_lg.jpg>
-Sean #40303 (ailerons - Dang, that leading edge skin is hard to cleco
on top)
Message 23
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d="scan'208"; a="48494892:sNHT35279190"
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Oh! I'm not discouraged! I love this!
I was trying to advise Jeff not to think too hard about it. Enjoy the
process. Even 1,500 hours could seem like forever for some. With you
parked next door the inspiration to keep going is right there! Folks, I
hope everyone gets to see Randy's plane at some point. Just beautiful. All
slow build and finished in 20 months. Wow...
I'll be glad to accept the ride, though! Anytime!
John Jessen
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Well in a couple of weeks walk next door and I will give you a ride and you
will not be discouraged. This plane is a blast to build and you should
enjoy the time spent. If not quicken the process as much as you can by
having the panel, paint, wiring, and fiberglass work done by someone else
and go all quick build. I would bet that your build time
could be in the 1500 hour range. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
So, at 2200 hours, let's say that I can put in an average of 20 hours per
week, given I travel some and there are others you have to pay attention to
every once in awhile, that'd be 110 weeks or a little over
2 years. I can live with that type of calculation. If it takes 2.5 or
2.75 years, fine. I know I'll be impatient when I get as far as the panel
and doors, because by then it's becoming a reality and you want to get it in
the air. Right now it's still a bunch of parts and I'd rather not think too
far out. Could get discouraging.
John Jessen
(Countersinks might be too deep, but they look neat.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was working
on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of good work in,
plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I tend to work alone,
just because I like it that way. I know someone was advocating partnering,
and I agree it would help speed things along, but it's just not my style.
I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do slow build
wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be getting
antsy to move faster), so that will take more time.
But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at least 3.
If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone, then I may
change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings. My son
will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the engine,
I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for six months,
although the interior will get plenty of attention.
That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather not ponder
it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already thinking about
the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats.
With the folding wings, it might just fit next to the RV!
John Jessen
(Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs and mods
in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this thing is
going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build process,
but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12...
and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a different tool
or spend too much time deburring?
I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be helped
along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing relative to the
group.
Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived.
I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some notion
that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in" when I begin
work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've stopped work.
My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It doesn't
include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or reading
these e-mails.
I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything aluminum
until I get to the cabin.
I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I can't
reach both sides of a rivet).
My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work on it
during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my employees and
customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall forward. I'm
considering shooting my own paint.
I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as the tip
ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the elevators and
have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the pro-seal
to dry on the tabs.
Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
N410CF
OSH 09
Message 24
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Probably the danger is that if you are pushing the edges of interpreting the FAR,
there is a lot of leeway in the FAA for individual inspectors, test pilots,
etc. to intrepret things their way. So one ramp check might not notice your
numbers, but two years later a detail-oriented guy in a bad mood could write you
up.
TDT
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Dan's post is "Dead On" exactly what was taught in school. I just spoke to Randy's
DAR regarding where heart-burn begins here in VANS country. On Italics,
when the slant exceeds the vertical by more than the prescribed points. ie.
If you take the lower right corner and project it vertically (90 degrees from
the horizontal baseline) to the upper left corner of the character ONE or INDIA
and your slant is beyond that point. Heartburn begins. If you stay vertical
- No Problem.
Craig has given two sets of specific styles which will always get you "Safe at Home". http://www.schemedesigners.com/samples-registration.htm
The second heartburn comes when the colors of fonts are not clearly contrasting.
Remember Randy's reference of the 500 foot without binocular rule. At OSH,
you will see a number of aircraft pushing that definition of contrast. But I
agree with Dan, don't buy off on misinformation... Read. Ask your tech advisor
often.
John - KUAO
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
Jeez guys. Stop spreading misinformation and read the FARs! Part 45, particularly
45.29,is very specific about this.
http://checkoway.com/url/?s=21b6a8b0
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (514 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: lyf@meritel.net
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
The N Numbers just need to
be Block Type lettering . that was how it was explained to me by an FAA
inspector here in my area. just fyi.
Lyf Halvorsen
lyf@meritel.net
Randy DeBauw wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
As I remember it the rule is a font that is readable from 500 feet
without any visual aid (binoculars). That is for the 12" numbers.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Subject: RV10-List: N Number Fonts
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
Somewhere a while back I remember reading about several aricraft that
were grounded by the FAA when they deemed that N Numbers did not meet
published FAA specs. These were aircraft that had been recently painted
and the painters had taken liberty with the N Number Font.
>From everywhere I have searched, I have only found ARIAL BOLD or ARIAL
BOLD ITALIC as the approved font for N-Numbers.
Yet in several recent pictures, it is obvious that other fonts are being
used.
Anyone know if this is a problem or not?
The paint jobs are really fantastic and it would be nice to be able to
be a little creative, but what are the limits to being creative and
being grounded by the FAA?
Thanks, Jim C
#40192 - Fuselage
N312F Reserved
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
Here's a great picture from Van's Hobbs Meter off their site. Two -10s
fly from the same location on the same day! One is the "Tim Paint
Scheme Look-Alike" :)
<http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/pair_of_tens_lg.jpg>
-Sean #40303 (ailerons - Dang, that leading edge skin is hard to cleco
on top)
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: N Number Fonts |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
After reading the FAR, it appears "Arial Bold" meets the requirements.
Don't want to kick the proverbial sleeping dog.
Thanks,
Jim Combs
#40192
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Jeez guys. Stop spreading misinformation and read the FARs! Part 45, particularly
45.29, is very specific about this.
http://checkoway.com/url/?s=21b6a8b0
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (514 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 26
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
John and Randy,
Don't get me wrong... I love building and I'm not discouraged... but
I do want a 4 year project and not a 6 year project. I enjoy
building but I really look forward to flying this plane. And, given
that the tail kit will probably take me somewhere along the lines of
350 hours (and the average, best I can tell is around 200 hours), it
looks like I may be "over building" a bit.
I think it's probably time I found myself a tech counselor to come
have a look and see where I may be able to pick up the pace.
Any takers?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Altadena, California
On Jun 17, 2005, at 11:58 AM, John Jessen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Oh! I'm not discouraged! I love this!
>
> I was trying to advise Jeff not to think too hard about it. Enjoy the
> process. Even 1,500 hours could seem like forever for some. With you
> parked next door the inspiration to keep going is right there!
> Folks, I
> hope everyone gets to see Randy's plane at some point. Just
> beautiful. All
> slow build and finished in 20 months. Wow...
>
> I'll be glad to accept the ride, though! Anytime!
>
> John Jessen
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> DeBauw
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:32 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> Well in a couple of weeks walk next door and I will give you a ride
> and you
> will not be discouraged. This plane is a blast to build and you
> should
> enjoy the time spent. If not quicken the process as much as you can by
> having the panel, paint, wiring, and fiberglass work done by
> someone else
> and go all quick build. I would bet that your build time
> could be in the 1500 hour range. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:51 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> So, at 2200 hours, let's say that I can put in an average of 20
> hours per
> week, given I travel some and there are others you have to pay
> attention to
> every once in awhile, that'd be 110 weeks or a little over
> 2 years. I can live with that type of calculation. If it takes
> 2.5 or
> 2.75 years, fine. I know I'll be impatient when I get as far as
> the panel
> and doors, because by then it's becoming a reality and you want to
> get it in
> the air. Right now it's still a bunch of parts and I'd rather not
> think too
> far out. Could get discouraging.
>
> John Jessen
> (Countersinks might be too deep, but they look neat.)
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> DeBauw
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:20 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> 2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 12:14 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was
> working
> on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of good
> work in,
> plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I tend to
> work alone,
> just because I like it that way. I know someone was advocating
> partnering,
> and I agree it would help speed things along, but it's just not my
> style.
> I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do
> slow build
> wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be
> getting
> antsy to move faster), so that will take more time.
>
> But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at
> least 3.
> If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone,
> then I may
> change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings.
> My son
> will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the
> engine,
> I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for six
> months,
> although the interior will get plenty of attention.
>
> That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather
> not ponder
> it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already
> thinking about
> the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats.
> With the folding wings, it might just fit next to the RV!
>
> John Jessen
> (Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Carpenter
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 11:22 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter
> <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
> different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs
> and mods
> in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this
> thing is
> going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build
> process,
> but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12...
> and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a
> different tool
> or spend too much time deburring?
>
> I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be
> helped
> along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing
> relative to the
> group.
>
> Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
>
> I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived.
> I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some
> notion
> that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
> 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
> 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in"
> when I begin
> work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've
> stopped work.
> My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It
> doesn't
> include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or
> reading
> these e-mails.
>
> I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything
> aluminum
> until I get to the cabin.
> I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I
> can't
> reach both sides of a rivet).
> My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work
> on it
> during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my
> employees and
> customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall
> forward. I'm
> considering shooting my own paint.
>
> I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as
> the tip
> ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
>
> I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the
> elevators and
> have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the
> pro-seal
> to dry on the tabs.
>
> Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> N410CF
> OSH 09
>
>
Message 27
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|
Many machine shops can lay it out for you and cut it, either with Lazer
or with regular cutting tools on a CNC machine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Subject: RV10-List: panel prep
The panel on my Glastar was cut entirely by myself; results were good
but very time consuming. Anybody have experience with a company that can
cut a panel; perhaps an avionics shop with laser cut facilities?
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
Nother question about your setup... what are you doing about trim / flap
position indicators? Are they built into the chelton the way they are the
ACS2500?
How about clock and OAT? I assume the chelton and / or 480 have them built
in?
Here I am fidgeting with my panel and I haven't even finished the HS yet ;)
Thanks,
James
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Forgot to add, to clarify....
The Chelton does not have any +/- 150mV stuff in it at
all, so, it won't drive ANY autopilot using those
signals, nor will it receive that particular signal from
any unit at this time. It does receive the information
via RS232 though, but that isn't the signal used to
drive CDI's, and autopilots using +/- 150mV signals.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Mark wrote:
> /*One last point about vertical steering....remember that
> the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not
> using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being
> run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/
> /**/
> Tim,
>
> First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you
> can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and
> answering questions from people like me :-)
>
> When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying
> that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a
> runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway,
> even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great,
> because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with
> HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it
> still would be very useful.
>
> Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of
> the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would
> sell alot more units!
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10 flying |
with the 3 bladed MT?
I would like to know which prop is being used on all the
current flying RV-10's. I like the 3 bladed MT, but there is no way I
am going to buy it until I see some real numbers with it on an RV-10
that I can trust. Is there any chance Van's will install this on N220RV
and publish the results? If I don't see some numbers soon, I'm going to
order the blended airfoil Hartzell from Van's.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
Message 30
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|
I will 2nd that vote. He did our 7A panel and very pleased.
Doug Preston
BHM
Message 31
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Gary Specketer" <speckter@comcast.net>
To find a tech counselor in your area, go to the EAA website and check
the listings.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Carpenter
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Build Time
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
John and Randy,
Don't get me wrong... I love building and I'm not discouraged... but
I do want a 4 year project and not a 6 year project. I enjoy
building but I really look forward to flying this plane. And, given
that the tail kit will probably take me somewhere along the lines of
350 hours (and the average, best I can tell is around 200 hours), it
looks like I may be "over building" a bit.
I think it's probably time I found myself a tech counselor to come
have a look and see where I may be able to pick up the pace.
Any takers?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Altadena, California
On Jun 17, 2005, at 11:58 AM, John Jessen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Oh! I'm not discouraged! I love this!
>
> I was trying to advise Jeff not to think too hard about it. Enjoy the
> process. Even 1,500 hours could seem like forever for some. With you
> parked next door the inspiration to keep going is right there!
> Folks, I
> hope everyone gets to see Randy's plane at some point. Just
> beautiful. All
> slow build and finished in 20 months. Wow...
>
> I'll be glad to accept the ride, though! Anytime!
>
> John Jessen
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> DeBauw
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 11:32 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> Well in a couple of weeks walk next door and I will give you a ride
> and you
> will not be discouraged. This plane is a blast to build and you
> should
> enjoy the time spent. If not quicken the process as much as you can by
> having the panel, paint, wiring, and fiberglass work done by
> someone else
> and go all quick build. I would bet that your build time
> could be in the 1500 hour range. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:51 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> So, at 2200 hours, let's say that I can put in an average of 20
> hours per
> week, given I travel some and there are others you have to pay
> attention to
> every once in awhile, that'd be 110 weeks or a little over
> 2 years. I can live with that type of calculation. If it takes
> 2.5 or
> 2.75 years, fine. I know I'll be impatient when I get as far as
> the panel
> and doors, because by then it's becoming a reality and you want to
> get it in
> the air. Right now it's still a bunch of parts and I'd rather not
> think too
> far out. Could get discouraging.
>
> John Jessen
> (Countersinks might be too deep, but they look neat.)
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
> DeBauw
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:20 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> 2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 12:14 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Well, this is a curious topic. I thought about just this as I was
> working
> on the rudder tonight. I get about 2 to 3 hours per night of good
> work in,
> plus at least 8 hours on the weekend, sometimes more. I tend to
> work alone,
> just because I like it that way. I know someone was advocating
> partnering,
> and I agree it would help speed things along, but it's just not my
> style.
> I'm sure that 99% of the build time will be me. I'll probably do
> slow build
> wings and quick build fuselage (the latter only because I'll be
> getting
> antsy to move faster), so that will take more time.
>
> But how much? I'd like to think 2 years, but it'll probably be at
> least 3.
> If I get to the first of the year and I'm still on the Empcone,
> then I may
> change my mind about working alone and getting slow build wings.
> My son
> will do the panel design, and I hope by the time I'm ready for the
> engine,
> I'll have enough to buy new. Painting can wait while I fly for six
> months,
> although the interior will get plenty of attention.
>
> That doesn't answer your question, but you know what? I'd rather
> not ponder
> it too hard. It's a journey. I'm enjoying it. I'm already
> thinking about
> the next type to build. Probably a Sportsman on floats.
> With the folding wings, it might just fit next to the RV!
>
> John Jessen
> (Working on the rudder while the primer dries on the VS)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
> Carpenter
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 11:22 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Build Time
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter
> <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> I realize we work at different speeds, with different skill sets, to
> different standards and with different levels of panels, paint jobs
> and mods
> in mind, but I would still like to get a handle on how long this
> thing is
> going to take me to build. Don't' get me wrong, I enjoy the build
> process,
> but I'd like to know if I'm on track for 4 years or 12...
> and if I'm taking longer than I should, is it that I need a
> different tool
> or spend too much time deburring?
>
> I'm certain too, that builders both ahead of and behind me would be
> helped
> along by some reasonable sense of how they were progressing
> relative to the
> group.
>
> Anyway, with all that in mind I report the following:
>
> I've been working since November 16th, 2004 when my tail kit arrived.
> I'm sustaining a pace of 2 hours a day, 5 days a week and have some
> notion
> that the project will take me 2000 hours... or about
> 4 years from the time I unpacked the crate. As of today, I've put in
> 309.18 hours. I track my time on the computer by "clocking in"
> when I begin
> work and "clocking out" when I've washed my hands after I've
> stopped work.
> My time includes unpacking the crate and taking the inventory. It
> doesn't
> include setting up the work shop, reading the manual before bed or
> reading
> these e-mails.
>
> I've previously built the tail of an RV-6 I'm not priming anything
> aluminum
> until I get to the cabin.
> I work with almost no help (I enlist some from time to time when I
> can't
> reach both sides of a rivet).
> My project sits inside my commercial printing business and I work
> on it
> during the work day, so I'm subject to interruptions from my
> employees and
> customers I'll likely "buy" my panel, upholstery and firewall
> forward. I'm
> considering shooting my own paint.
>
> I've had to build a pair of attach brackets for the HS as well as
> the tip
> ribs for the elevators twice at the cost of about 10 hours
>
> I've got about 2-3 hours left to attach the trim tabs to the
> elevators and
> have put about 14 hours into the tail cone while I waited for the
> pro-seal
> to dry on the tabs.
>
> Any thoughts? Is my 2000 hour expectation reasonable?
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> N410CF
> OSH 09
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Good question James,
I don't know exactly what my plan is regarding the trim/flap
indicators....I haven't looked for info on that yet. I'll just
take it as it comes with those...worst case I use the same
indicator as N410RV has (i.e. look out the window). I'm not
too concerned about the flaps. For trim, if there's nothing
built-in to the chelton, I'll just throw in an LED bar or
something.
As for clocks, there's good functionality in the Chelton,
the GNS480, and the GTX330 so I decided to drop a separate
chronometer.
Now, get back to your empcone so you can finish that thing. ;)
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
James Ochs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ochs" <jochs@froody.org>
>
> Nother question about your setup... what are you doing about trim / flap
> position indicators? Are they built into the chelton the way they are the
> ACS2500?
>
> How about clock and OAT? I assume the chelton and / or 480 have them built
> in?
>
> Here I am fidgeting with my panel and I haven't even finished the HS yet ;)
>
>
> Thanks,
> James
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 10:21 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Forgot to add, to clarify....
>
> The Chelton does not have any +/- 150mV stuff in it at
> all, so, it won't drive ANY autopilot using those
> signals, nor will it receive that particular signal from
> any unit at this time. It does receive the information
> via RS232 though, but that isn't the signal used to
> drive CDI's, and autopilots using +/- 150mV signals.
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
>
> Mark wrote:
>
>>/*One last point about vertical steering....remember that
>>the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not
>>using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being
>>run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/
>>/**/
>>Tim,
>>
>>First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you
>>can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and
>>answering questions from people like me :-)
>>
>>When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying
>>that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a
>>runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway,
>>even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great,
>>because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with
>>HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it
>>still would be very useful.
>>
>>Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of
>>the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would
>>sell alot more units!
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Mark
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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|
Standard build. Quick build would be in the 1800 range I figure. That
is if you did most all of the work yourself. But then again I know of a
RV8 builder that went all quick build and is retired working on it
almost every day except Sunday. He is into his 3rd year. Different
strokes for..... Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark & Kelly
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Build Time
2200 hundred hours by yourself will be very close John. Randy
Randy,
Is this based on the QB or standard kits? I couldn't tell from the
original post.
Thanks,
Mark
Message 34
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| Subject: | What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10 |
flying with the 3 bladed MT?
The 220RV has the Cont. engine and both planes now have the Blended
Airfoil Props on them. Randy
________________________________
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Subject: RV10-List: What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any
RV-10 flying with the 3 bladed MT?
I would like to know which prop is being used on all the
current flying RV-10's. I like the 3 bladed MT, but there is no way I
am going to buy it until I see some real numbers with it on an RV-10
that I can trust. Is there any chance Van's will install this on N220RV
and publish the results? If I don't see some numbers soon, I'm going to
order the blended airfoil Hartzell from Van's.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
Message 35
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|
But then again I know of a RV8 builder that went all quick build and is retired
working on it almost every day except Sunday. He is into his 3rd year
I am REALLY hoping this won't be me!
Mark
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
Bob:
My understanding is that the Chelton has both the lateral and vertical
location of every waypoint in an approach regardless of type. It can, then,
depict via the HITS both the lateral and vertical track through the approach
and missed approach waypoints. There are some cases as with any Flight
Management System (FMS) where it may not show a particular waypoint if the
vertical path defined by the prior and subsequent waypoint clears the
missing waypoint vertically.
Operationally, good practice would suggest loading the assigned approach
into the flight plan as soon as it is known. Then review and verify that
the approach waypoints match your paper approach plate. Now you can set the
plate aside and concentrate on flying the approach or monitoring the
autopilot.
As for VFR approaches,that came up in another post, again my understanding
from the manual is that you can program a "standard" approach profile of
your own choosing, say 3.0 degree vertical slope and a final approach fix
altitude of 1500 AGL. Then, anytime, you choose "VFR approach" to a runway
that does not have any kind of an IFR approach you will get HITS guidance
along the runway track extended from the approach end and the vertical slope
you have programmed. This is I think a valuable feature for night landings
to runways without approach guidance. In this case, since you are
"designing" your own approach you must insure that adequate terrain and
obstacle clearance exits.
Finally, not much has been said about the "velocity vector" depicted on the
Chelton PFD. This symbol shows where the aircraft track, both vertical and
lateral will take the airplane. If the velocity vector is shown against the
brown terrain or an obstacle, that is where the aircraft will impact if no
further action is taken by the pilot. If the velocity vector is on the end
of a runway that is where the aircraft will arrive as well. The velocity
vector is a powerful and useful tool when fully understood.
Take all of this with a grain of salt or two since it comes from reading the
manuals and asking questions only. I have not flown the system yet but
can't wait.
Dick Sipp
40065
----- Original Message -----
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
> Here's another question for those smart about avionics integration - focus
> so far seems to be on overlays of precision approaches. How do the
> Chelton or GRT handle non-precision (VOR and LOC) approaches with step
> downs?
>
> Bob #40105
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson
> Sent: Fri 06/17/2005 12:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RE: Chelton Panels, Autopilots, and GPS
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Forgot to add, to clarify....
>
> The Chelton does not have any +/- 150mV stuff in it at
> all, so, it won't drive ANY autopilot using those
> signals, nor will it receive that particular signal from
> any unit at this time. It does receive the information
> via RS232 though, but that isn't the signal used to
> drive CDI's, and autopilots using +/- 150mV signals.
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> Mark wrote:
> > /*One last point about vertical steering....remember that
> > the Chelton will do this for your autopilot...just not
> > using the actual milivolt output of your radios and being
> > run directly into the autopilot at that signal level.*/
> > /**/
> > Tim,
> >
> > First of all, thanks for the detailed response. I don't know how you
> > can be so far along on your 10 while keeping up with your website and
> > answering questions from people like me :-)
> >
> > When I see the term +/- 150Mv my mind starts to wander. Are you saying
> > that if the Chelton has HITS vertical guidance on an approach to a
> > runway, that the Chelton can vertically drive an AP down to the runway,
> > even though it may not be an actual approach? This would be great,
> > because in the manual, it says that you can set up a VFR approach with
> > HITS to any runway. I realize this can't be used IFR, but it
> > still would be very useful.
> >
> > Yes I have read the manual cover to cover. I think if they put some of
> > the functionality of the unit on the Direct2Avionics site, they would
> > sell alot more units!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mark
> >
> >
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | What Prop is everyone flying with? Are there any RV-10 |
flying with the 3 bladed MT?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
I would give them a call but I expect the answer is no
based on the recent Hartzell blended prop testing and
the cost of the MT prop. I believe they do use their
governor.
I picked up my fuselage kit this week (standard build)
and took a ride in the RV-10 with the 260 HP lycoming.
I asked some of the staff what the plans are for the
Cont and no one expressed confidence that they would
do a FWF package for it. Based partly on the recent
survey. They also mentioned that the Cont engine is on
extended loan from Cont and this was a strong
motivation to try it. They wanted to see how it would
do with lower HP but didn't want to use the IO-360.
I picked up the fuselage kit uncrated and it fit with
plenty of room to spare in a 14' u-haul.
Other quick comments. THe RV-10 had door open warning
lights installed - They said might be a future option.
Electric trim for alierons is not ready but will be
retrofitable. 210 HP RV-10 has an Andair fuel valve.
Eric
--- Randy DeBauw <Randy@abros.com> wrote:
> The 220RV has the Cont. engine and both planes now
> have the Blended
> Airfoil Props on them. Randy
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
> [NTK]
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 1:32 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: What Prop is everyone flying
> with? Are there any
> RV-10 flying with the 3 bladed MT?
>
>
>
> I would like to know which prop is being
> used on all the
> current flying RV-10's. I like the 3 bladed MT, but
> there is no way I
> am going to buy it until I see some real numbers
> with it on an RV-10
> that I can trust. Is there any chance Van's will
> install this on N220RV
> and publish the results? If I don't see some
> numbers soon, I'm going to
> order the blended airfoil Hartzell from Van's.
>
>
>
> Thank You
> Ray Doerr
> 40250
>
>
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