Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:38 AM - Re: Van's Conduit In Wing (Tim Olson)
2. 05:27 AM - Re: Tube Flaring technique (Gary Specketer)
3. 05:42 AM - Re: Van's Conduit In Wing (wlucas@nc.rr.com)
4. 07:20 AM - Re: Tube Flaring technique (Stein Bruch)
5. 08:23 AM - Re: Van's Conduit In Wing (Eric Panning)
6. 08:36 AM - Re: Van's Conduit In Wing (James Hein)
7. 08:59 AM - Re: Van's Conduit In Wing (Dan Checkoway)
8. 09:17 AM - Re: Aux fuel tanks? (Jesse Saint)
9. 09:37 AM - Re: Van's Conduit In Wing (Scott Schmidt)
10. 10:46 AM - Newbe!!!!! (Jim Wade)
11. 11:04 AM - Re: Newbe!!!!! (James Hein)
12. 11:48 AM - Found the source for deburr bits for Dremel (James Hein)
13. 12:44 PM - Re: Newbe!!!!! (Brian Sponcil)
14. 02:57 PM - Re: Aux fuel tanks? (Nikolaos Napoli)
15. 03:12 PM - Re: Firewall Insualtion? (Byron Gillespie)
16. 04:02 PM - Second Battery (Dick Gurley)
17. 04:19 PM - Re: Second Battery (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
18. 04:26 PM - Re: Second Battery (McGANN, Ron)
19. 07:56 PM - Re: Tank Sealant Quantity? (Rick)
20. 08:00 PM - Re: Van's Conduit In Wing (Rick)
21. 08:09 PM - Re: Second Battery (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
22. 08:18 PM - cancellation (Neville Murray)
23. 09:01 PM - Re: Tube Flaring technique (DejaVu)
24. 09:32 PM - Re: Second Battery (Marcus Cooper)
25. 09:57 PM - Re: Second Battery (John W. Cox)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I don't remember the exact measurement I drilled to, but I
drilled to the outer measurement of the smaller diameter of
the conduit (in the low spots) but then deburred it slightly
larger because that was hard to pull. I didn't go all the way
to the outer diameter of the conduit. By the time I got done,
it wasn't too bad to pull, with 2 people. It was pretty close
to that outer diameter, just not all the way there.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
Eric Panning wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
>
> More conduit questions....
>
> I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked up 50
> feet of it from them today.
>
> Looks like I need to drill the rib holes from the
> current 5/8ths to 11/16ths for the smaller outer
> radius of the corrigated conduit. The other option
> would be to drill to the outer radius of the conduit
> and then hold it in place somehow.
>
> Which is the preferred method? I'm guessing drill
> 11/16ths, stuff it though and it will self lock. Is
> this correct?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Eric
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Tube Flaring technique |
Glad I could help. Hope you get some good stuff to replace it. Check
some samples of the new batch before you pay for it.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
I had a friend A&P mechanic come by the house tonight with his tool,
which was the same as mine. He tried about a dozen times and everyone
of his cracked also. He also tried to dip the tube in Alodine for about
15min to soften it some-no joy. He tried a couple more while taking
note of the position of the crack. They all cracked about the same
place along the tube. He also looked at the lip with a magnifying glass
after only one turn and could detect the crack starting. Couldn't see
any obvious defect to the tube. He concluded that it was a bad batch of
tubing that I got.
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary <mailto:speckter@comcast.net> Specketer
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
One of the tricks is to have fresh tubing. My Glasair kit had tubing
that would not flair. I had to get replacement tubing. Cut a sample or
two and bring them to a friend and have him try it. That will tell you
if it is technique or tubing.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
What's the trick to good flares? I did fine for half of the tubes and
then managed to crack every one. I tried to carefully cut with a tube
cutter, a little at a time, make sure the ends are squared, deburred. I
have one of those sliding block flaring tools (37deg). One fella in the
archive mentioned leaving 5/16" of the tube protruding through the block
and turn 7 half turns.
Anh
#141
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
iPlanet-SMTP-Warning: Lines longer than SMTP allows found and truncated.
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
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resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 4
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d="scan'208,217"; a="1215136055:sNHT47703644"
| Subject: | Tube Flaring technique |
First, get a good flaring tool. The "sliding block" type ones will work
just ok, but are by far inferior to the good "Rotoflare" type tools. You'll
never get the consistently good flares like using a "rotoflare" or something
similar. Yes, the good flaring tools are more expensive than the cheapos,
but they usually work much better and they'll do it every time. You don't
have to measure a certain amount of tubing to leave protrucing, because it
has a stop built into it. You also don't have to "count turns", you just
turn until it's done!
Also, did anyone mention squirting the tube with a bit of LPS or WD-40 when
flaring? It's common practice to lubricate the mandrel with something and
usually assists in keeping cracks away. That being said, if you have bad
tubing, nothing will help but a fresh batch of tubing!
Just my 2 cents as usual. No need for everyone to buy one, split the cost
among friends. They're only about $85.00, and it's money well spent.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of linn walters
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:22 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
DejaVu wrote:
I had a friend A&P mechanic come by the house tonight with his tool,
which was the same as mine. He tried about a dozen times and everyone of
his cracked also. He also tried to dip the tube in Alodine for about 15min
to soften it some-no joy.
That's because Alodine is a chromium conversion coating. If you leave it
in for a really long time, Alodine will slowly eat the aluminum .... and it
tkes a really long time. But, it won't corrode!!!
Linn
do not archive
He tried a couple more while taking note of the position of the crack.
They all cracked about the same place along the tube. He also looked at the
lip with a magnifying glass after only one turn and could detect the crack
starting. Couldn't see any obvious defect to the tube. He concluded that it
was a bad batch of tubing that I got.
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Specketer
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
One of the tricks is to have fresh tubing. My Glasair kit had tubing
that would not flair. I had to get replacement tubing. Cut a sample or two
and bring them to a friend and have him try it. That will tell you if it is
technique or tubing.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:12 PM
To: RV10
Subject: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
What's the trick to good flares? I did fine for half of the tubes
and then managed to crack every one. I tried to carefully cut with a tube
cutter, a little at a time, make sure the ends are squared, deburred. I have
one of those sliding block flaring tools (37deg). One fella in the archive
mentioned leaving 5/16" of the tube protruding through the block and turn 7
half turns.
Anh
#141
Message 5
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=PiB14DRH0aM0tktUijd+pz9pThd+GxFWmPJdsuUL7y1JzX5TfsmfMSFpH++KcZd4Q19k1HDaQ9DwnP2u5RN4pOqT9ZPka26ZC2TX52FKXD6ebKTLuFJXGirTpYe8AXb+EyHpPJjP6EhU3GbmKVSJ09uSEQ879HUCHrI9iDFhdd0=
;
| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the quick reponses, I think I will follow
Tim's input. I wish I had made up my mind prior to
assembling the wings (except for the bottom skins) as
it is a tight fit for some of the holes (+ the chips!)
I built it to plans but it is a real tight fit through
the stock bushings. I have strobe, AoA, autopilot
harness, nav lighting, pitot heat and landing lights
to run.
Eric
--- wlucas@nc.rr.com wrote:
---------------------------------
--> RV10-List message posted by: wlucas@nc.rr.com
I read on some RV construction sites where the conduit
holes have been drilled out to the OD of the conduit.
This makes it easy to pull the conduit through the
holes in the ribs. Then, electrical cable zip ties
are placed on each side of a rib, tighten to ensure a
good grip on the conduit, and the excess snipped off.
With a zip tie fastened to each side of the rib, that
baby's not going anywhere. Just a thought!
Wade
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
<Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I don't remember the exact measurement I drilled to,
but I
> drilled to the outer measurement of the smaller
diameter of
> the conduit (in the low spots) but then deburred it
slightly
> larger because that was hard to pull. I didn't go
all the way
> to the outer diameter of the conduit. By the time I
got done,
> it wasn't too bad to pull, with 2 people. It was
pretty close
> to that outer diameter, just not all the way there.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> Eric Panning wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning
<ericmpmail-
> rv10@yahoo.com>>
> > More conduit questions....
> >
> > I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked
up 50
> > feet of it from them today.
> >
>
Message 6
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d="scan'208"; a="1058433111:sNHT15902246"
| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
I would be cautious about putting cable ties where you can't get to them
later. In my experience, a cable tie outdoors does not last more than a
few years; Indoors they may last 5 years or so.
What happens is that they get brittle and just come apart in pieces.
One more tip: Avoid the black ties anyplace where there can be sunlight.
Even the "UV Stabilized" black ties seem to fail very quickly (on the
order of a year or so.)
-Jim 40384
wlucas@nc.rr.com wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: wlucas@nc.rr.com
>
> I read on some RV construction sites where the conduit holes have been
> drilled out to the OD of the conduit. This makes it easy to pull the
> conduit through the holes in the ribs. Then, electrical cable zip
> ties are placed on each side of a rib, tighten to ensure a good grip
> on the conduit, and the excess snipped off. With a zip tie fastened
> to each side of the rib, that baby's not going anywhere. Just a thought!
>
> Wade
>
> *----- Original Message -----*
>
> *From*: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> *Date*: Thursday, June 30, 2005
> 7:37 am *Subject*: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing > -->
> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> > I don't remember the exact measurement I drilled to, but I
> > drilled to the outer measurement of the smaller diameter of
> > the conduit (in the low spots) but then deburred it slightly
> > larger because that was hard to pull. I didn't go all the way
> > to the outer diameter of the conduit. By the time I got done,
> > it wasn't too bad to pull, with 2 people. It was pretty close
> > to that outer diameter, just not all the way there.
> >
> > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> > Current project: Fuselage
> >
> >
> > Eric Panning wrote:
> > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-
> > rv10@yahoo.com>>
> > > More conduit questions....
> > >
> > > I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked up 50
> > > feet of it from them today.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Just use some RTV (or proseal).
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Hein" <n8vim@arrl.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>
> I would be cautious about putting cable ties where you can't get to them
> later. In my experience, a cable tie outdoors does not last more than a
> few years; Indoors they may last 5 years or so.
>
> What happens is that they get brittle and just come apart in pieces.
>
> One more tip: Avoid the black ties anyplace where there can be sunlight.
> Even the "UV Stabilized" black ties seem to fail very quickly (on the
> order of a year or so.)
>
> -Jim 40384
>
> wlucas@nc.rr.com wrote:
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: wlucas@nc.rr.com
> >
> > I read on some RV construction sites where the conduit holes have been
> > drilled out to the OD of the conduit. This makes it easy to pull the
> > conduit through the holes in the ribs. Then, electrical cable zip
> > ties are placed on each side of a rib, tighten to ensure a good grip
> > on the conduit, and the excess snipped off. With a zip tie fastened
> > to each side of the rib, that baby's not going anywhere. Just a
thought!
> >
> > Wade
> >
> > *----- Original Message -----*
> >
> > *From*: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> *Date*: Thursday, June 30, 2005
> > 7:37 am *Subject*: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing > -->
> > RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> > >
> > > I don't remember the exact measurement I drilled to, but I
> > > drilled to the outer measurement of the smaller diameter of
> > > the conduit (in the low spots) but then deburred it slightly
> > > larger because that was hard to pull. I didn't go all the way
> > > to the outer diameter of the conduit. By the time I got done,
> > > it wasn't too bad to pull, with 2 people. It was pretty close
> > > to that outer diameter, just not all the way there.
> > >
> > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
> > > Current project: Fuselage
> > >
> > >
> > > Eric Panning wrote:
> > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-
> > > rv10@yahoo.com>>
> > > > More conduit questions....
> > > >
> > > > I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked up 50
> > > > feet of it from them today.
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Everything is statute, both speed and distance. Sorry for not including
that.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Not to nit pick...really don't intend it that way, but...
To Everyone....when you post speed specs, please add the
extra keystrokes to specify either MPH or KTS. At least
these I can assume are MPH, or you have a very large engine.
I plan to deal exclusively in KTS, so my specs will be posted
that way.
Very cool about your 1,000 mile range.... Now, is that
1000 NM, or 1000 Statute. ;) Again, I calculate everything
in Nautical.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jesse Saint wrote:
> Grumpy,
>
>
>
> I am not going to argue the point with you, but I think probably the
> only similarities between the RV-10 and the F-16 is that they both fly.
> There are a lot of certified airplanes that are much more similar to the
> RV-10 than the F-16 that have added tip tanks as an STC, without
> restructuring the wing. These planes aren't pulling 8G's in an outside
> loop, though, which may require a little more engineering.
>
>
>
> We have actually discovered that we can fly at 12,000 feet burning 9.5
> gal/hour and cruising at 178 without the wheel or gear fairings. Adding
> those should take us up to about 190 at least (from the reports we have
> read - namely Dan Checkoway). This will give us over 1,000 miles of
> range with an hour of reserve. We have thought all along that we wanted
> aux tanks, but just realized that we can probably get by without them.
> Just food for thought.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *GenGrumpy@aol.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 28, 2005 8:18 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Aux fuel tanks?
>
>
>
> Guys, I'm a newcomer to building the -10, but have years of flight test
> experience in high performance aircraft.
>
>
>
> I would not - repeat not - add anything to the outboard section of the
> wing that Van has not done structural analysis on to include flight tests.
>
>
>
> I specifically recall a problem with flight test of the F-16 and
> outboard stores that nearly took the outboard section of the wing off.
>
>
>
> The structures guys said it would never happen (the torsional loads)
> until we showed them on videotape.
>
>
>
> They then said "if you let that continue, it would probably rip the wing
> off......"
>
>
>
> Just a thought from a guy who requires both the design engineer and
> flight test folks to say "it's ok"......
>
>
>
> grumpy
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/28/2005 4:09:11 PM Central Standard Time,
> gyoung@cs-sol.com writes:
>
> Having the weight at the end of the spar is typically a benefit to
> the load distribution in flight. It can be a detriment to the
> landing loads though. Case in point, my Navion tip tanks allow me to
> increase my gross weight BUT only by the amount of fuel carried in
> the tip tanks. We are also cautioned to land gently if the tips are
> filled. It was likely a no-analysis item back when the STC was
> approved. Bending loads are one thing but it will also change the
> handling and fore-aft sloshing will affect CG and may impart
> torsional loads to the wing. Look at Van's write-up on the wing
> design and load testing before you think about modifying it.
>
> Regards,
> Greg Young
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> Having owned and flown a Cessna 310 for the last three
> years and 500 hours I'm not concerned about stability
> issues. C310 main tanks are the tip tanks, 50 gallons
> per side, the aux tanks are in the wings only 15
> gallons per side. This is a very stable aircraft. My
> question would be about adding the loading to the end
> of the spar?
> Steve 40212 Wings
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Van's Conduit In Wing |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
I used a 13/16" first but had a hard time pulling the conduit through.
I then opened it up to 7/8" and that seemed to work much better. It is
much easier to pull through but is not going to go anywhere.
http://freedomflyers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25#post25
Scott Schmidt
Cell: 801-319-3094
sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Van's Conduit In Wing
--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning
<ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
More conduit questions....
I've decided to use the van's conduit and picked up 50
feet of it from them today.
Looks like I need to drill the rib holes from the
current 5/8ths to 11/16ths for the smaller outer
radius of the corrigated conduit. The other option
would be to drill to the outer radius of the conduit
and then hold it in place somehow.
Which is the preferred method? I'm guessing drill
11/16ths, stuff it though and it will self lock. Is
this correct?
Thanks!
Eric
Message 10
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|
Just wanted to introduce Julie and I to you. We have been following your
emails with great interest, but have never posted any of our own. We started
our RV-10 empenage April 25th finished yesterday. Waiting for fuselage and
wings end of July. Slow build. We have learned a lot just reading your posts
thanks for all the info. We will have all glass panel, new lycoming, tip
tanks, aero composite 2 blade prop. This is the first kit plane we have
built. We have restored several antique aircraft. Working with all new parts
is a dream!!!! Julie, my wife works right along with me everyday and couldn
t get it done without her. Keep us the good work, you all are a great
inspiration.
Blue Skies
Jim & Julie Wade
40383
Message 11
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d="scan'208"; a="1215933271:sNHT16425648"
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Welcome neighbor!
I'm just starting the Elevators, and am working totally alone so it
appears you're way ahead of me now!
What tip tanks are you going to use?
-Jim 40384
Jim Wade wrote:
> Just wanted to introduce Julie and I to you. We have been following
> your emails with great interest, but have never posted any of our own.
> We started our RV-10 empenage April 25th finished yesterday. Waiting
> for fuselage and wings end of July. Slow build. We have learned a lot
> just reading your posts, thanks for all the info. We will have all
> glass panel, new lycoming, tip tanks, aero composite 2 blade prop.
> This is the first kit plane we have built. We have restored several
> antique aircraft. Working with all new parts is a dream!!!! Julie, my
> wife works right along with me everyday and couldn't get it done
> without her. Keep us the good work, you all are a great inspiration.
> Blue Skies
> Jim & Julie Wade
> 40383
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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d="jpg'145?scan'145,208,217,145"; a="1190986271:sNHT44711868"
| Subject: | Found the source for deburr bits for Dremel |
DNA: do not archive
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Message 13
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You claim to be a newbie yet you've already finished the empenage!! I JUST ordered
my tail kit so I've got to be the newest RV10 builder (at least for the next
day or two). Strangely I think my wife Christine is more pumped about the project
than I am and I hate to admit it, but at this point she's a better riveter
than I am. Oh well. I'm sure to get plenty of practice in the next month or
two.
Anyway, good luck and keep us posted on your progress....
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Wade
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Newbe!!!!!
Just wanted to introduce Julie and I to you. We have been following your
emails with great interest, but have never posted any of our own. We started
our RV-10 empenage April 25th finished yesterday. Waiting for fuselage and wings
end of July. Slow build. We have learned a lot just reading your posts, thanks
for all the info. We will have all glass panel, new lycoming, tip tanks,
aero composite 2 blade prop. This is the first kit plane we have built. We have
restored several antique aircraft. Working with all new parts is a dream!!!!
Julie, my wife works right along with me everyday and couldn't get it done without
her. Keep us the good work, you all are a great inspiration.
Blue Skies
Jim & Julie Wade
40383
Message 14
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=MiINP5gz2ruo1J4nscSDN55eKNeJkiYqzAxpdD1iip33aXUnpCsq054gCxJe0+OvyfLNEnNCgnQVNcW66uoX74/bVo+jdBftZ64C4II1JHZ7G6lRU/WtiXnIfv7EtG0V/rYYBxMWiuw8XmT0c2RlHXqZIjHli0uwL4dpGzHxj4w=
;
| Subject: | Re: Aux fuel tanks? |
In general I agree with Grumpy.
The idea that if you add weight to the outboard wing you will eventually have problems
is a given. The only unknown is for a particular design at what point
it occurs. I don't think any of the builders know this at this time and Van's
might not have a good handle on it either. The problem is considerably more
complex than one might envision, which is brought to light by the statement
that what happened to the F16 wing was surprising to the engineers working on
it. Once a few RV10s with mods accumulate some hours we will have a better idea
of how strong the wing is and how much more load it can safely take if any.
It is also not a matter of if the aircraft are similar or not. Its simply a matter
of what the static and fatigue margins are, what the aeroelastic response
of the wing is, how much the loads are increased and how the load distributions
have changed.
I would advise extreme caution during any deviation from what Van's intended.
In most cases small changes work out okay because the margins are usually high
but not always. We know of at least one RV8 crash where the wing broke. To
my knowledge the cause has not been determined. In fact, I remember reading another
case in the Rviator where one of the 2 seater RV's encountered flutter.
Also keep in mind that as a general rule of thumb a 10% increase in load (stress)
will halve the fatigue life. Developing a fatigue crack in the spar is usually
not a good thing. I am not saying that adding the outboard tanks is a problem
or not a problem. I simple suggesting that builders take any mods seriously.
Also remember that Vans did not test the wing to failure. The structure
was clearly straining during the test as evidenced by all the noise per the
test report, and your wing might not be as strong as the one that was tested.
The above is just my opinion, I know not all agree with it and thats ok.
GenGrumpy@aol.com wrote:
Jesse - not to argue a point either.
The huge transients we saw were in 1g level flight, and were totally related to
airspeed and weight in the outboard section of the wing as compared to inner
weight (such as full inner tanks and full outer tanks????).
I run the world's largest ground wind tunnel test facility (Arnold Air Force Base),
so I've seen some very strange things happen when all of the engineers said
that it would not happen.
And you do not want to have this happen to you for the first time in actual flight
(you'd rather that Van's guys prove it first).
My thoughts for whatever they're worth.
Grumpy - #40404
In a message dated 6/29/2005 4:39:47 PM Central Standard Time, jesse@itecusa.org
writes:
Grumpy,
I am not going to argue the point with you, but I think probably the only similarities
between the RV-10 and the F-16 is that they both fly. There are a lot
of certified airplanes that are much more similar to the RV-10 than the F-16
that have added tip tanks as an STC, without restructuring the wing. These planes
arent pulling 8Gs in an outside loop, though, which may require a little
more engineering.
We have actually discovered that we can fly at 12,000 feet burning 9.5 gal/hour
and cruising at 178 without the wheel or gear fairings. Adding those should
take us up to about 190 at least (from the reports we have read namely Dan Checkoway).
This will give us over 1,000 miles of range with an hour of reserve.
We have thought all along that we wanted aux tanks, but just realized that
we can probably get by without them. Just food for thought.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
http://www.itecusa.org/
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
Message 15
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d="scan'208,217"; a="935913572:sNHT44822844"
| Subject: | Firewall Insualtion? |
Thanks for the reply;
My interest is probably more for the insulation characteristics. I am in
the South Georgia area and the heat can be nasty. Can't seem to get to
altitude quick enough. Aircraft Spruce has something called "The
Insulator" that looks interesting. May give it a try and see how it
works.
Has anyone else tried this material?
Thanks,
Byron
Starting on the fuselage sides # 40253
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Firewall Insualtion?
I have not installed the firewall sound insulation yet. What is
interesting is that a good friend of mine flew with me in 10 the other
day and was astounded at how quite the 10 is without the insulation in
place. He was sure it would be one of the first things that I would
want to get done after the first flights. Now we said he wouldn't think
you would even need it. I will be putting it in. The material I have is
from Hi Tec foams. Randy
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron
Gillespie
Subject: RV10-List: Firewall Insualtion?
What are any of you doing relative to firewall insulation? I have
searched the archives and have found very little info. I am putting
together an order to Aircraft Spruce and noticed that they have several
different types. Thought that I would add it on to the floor insulation
order. Just ordered my fuel pumps, etc from Vans yesterday.
Just looking to those who have (and are) forged ahead for the usual
guidance.
Thanks,
Byron
More fuselage decisions - # 40253
Message 16
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I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following
questions. To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical system,
where have you placed the second battery? What is the effect does the
placement have on weight and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Second Battery |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
I modified the battery tray to accept a pair of PC-680s (17 AH each) instead of
the stock single 25 AH battery. Adds a few pounds total weight but I opted for
extra redundancy that will partially offset the ballast that the factory carries.
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Second Battery
I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following questions.
To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical system, where have you
placed the second battery? What is the effect does the placement have on weight
and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
Message 18
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
Hey Bob,
Do you have any photos of your tray mod?
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
(US SSA)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Second Battery
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
<bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
I modified the battery tray to accept a pair of PC-680s (17 AH each) instead
of the stock single 25 AH battery. Adds a few pounds total weight but I
opted for extra redundancy that will partially offset the ballast that the
factory carries.
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Second Battery
I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following
questions. To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical system,
where have you placed the second battery? What is the effect does the
placement have on weight and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
Message 19
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| Subject: | Tank Sealant Quantity? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
As a bonafide card carrying OSHA compliance officer I can give you several reasons
to avoid BOTH of these chemicals. Anyone ever have a low grade headache for
a few days after working on your tanks? If not you didn't get your head into
the mix good enough, or you had an SCBA, organic masks provide a low level (read
not much) of protection and over a period of two hours your polluted. Toulene
makes wonderful explosions, MEK is less volatile due to a higher boiling point.
Guys, get outside if possible. I finished hazardous materials refresher
this week. Explained my low grade 5 day headache. (Tanks!!!!) I won't open the
old aluminum dust explosion conversations again. If you have a pile of that
dust around your grinder, ground yourself and carefully sweep it into the trash
bin. DON'T use your shop vac...static electricity can work wonders to light
off that stuff. Damn videos scare the crap outta ya!!
Rick S.
40185
Wings
(Almost done,...staring at the tips) waiting for the fuse.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Van's Conduit In Wing |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Eric,
7/8" worked perfect for me...remember you need to allow the ribs to move when doing
the bottom skins. Try to get them at a perfect 90 to the spar prior to siliconing
the conduit to the ribs. I applied silicone prior to clecoing the skins
on and match drilling to make sure the conduit was straight and not to loose
or tight prior to completing the bottom skins.
Rick S.
40185
Tips
Message 21
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Message 22
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Please remove my email address from your list.
Thank you for the information that you have provided.
Regards
Neville
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Tube Flaring technique |
Stein,
Thanks for the help. I sent me findings to Scott Risan at Van's. He's sending
me a replacement 12' roll of tubing.
Anh
----- Original Message -----
From: Stein Bruch
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2005 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
First, get a good flaring tool. The "sliding block" type ones will work just
ok, but are by far inferior to the good "Rotoflare" type tools. You'll never
get the consistently good flares like using a "rotoflare" or something similar.
Yes, the good flaring tools are more expensive than the cheapos, but they
usually work much better and they'll do it every time. You don't have to measure
a certain amount of tubing to leave protrucing, because it has a stop built
into it. You also don't have to "count turns", you just turn until it's done!
Also, did anyone mention squirting the tube with a bit of LPS or WD-40 when flaring?
It's common practice to lubricate the mandrel with something and usually
assists in keeping cracks away. That being said, if you have bad tubing,
nothing will help but a fresh batch of tubing!
Just my 2 cents as usual. No need for everyone to buy one, split the cost among
friends. They're only about $85.00, and it's money well spent.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of linn walters
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:22 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
DejaVu wrote:
I had a friend A&P mechanic come by the house tonight with his tool, which
was the same as mine. He tried about a dozen times and everyone of his cracked
also. He also tried to dip the tube in Alodine for about 15min to soften
it some-no joy.
That's because Alodine is a chromium conversion coating. If you leave it in
for a really long time, Alodine will slowly eat the aluminum .... and it tkes
a really long time. But, it won't corrode!!!
Linn
do not archive
He tried a couple more while taking note of the position of the crack.
They all cracked about the same place along the tube. He also looked at the
lip with a magnifying glass after only one turn and could detect the crack starting.
Couldn't see any obvious defect to the tube. He concluded that it was a
bad batch of tubing that I got.
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Specketer
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
One of the tricks is to have fresh tubing. My Glasair kit had tubing that
would not flair. I had to get replacement tubing. Cut a sample or two and
bring them to a friend and have him try it. That will tell you if it is technique
or tubing.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:12 PM
To: RV10
Subject: RV10-List: Tube Flaring technique
What's the trick to good flares? I did fine for half of the tubes and
then managed to crack every one. I tried to carefully cut with a tube cutter,
a little at a time, make sure the ends are squared, deburred. I have one of
those sliding block flaring tools (37deg). One fella in the archive mentioned
leaving 5/16" of the tube protruding through the block and turn 7 half turns.
Anh
#141
Message 24
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
The dual Odyssey batteries seem like a pretty slick idea. Anyone have any
practical CG numbers that could see if there's any potential situation with
too aft a CG with the extra 5.5lbs at the battery location?
To further the question, I know there was a PDF file posted from the
finishing kit weight & balance info but I can't find it in the archives.
Could someone steer me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
QB wings & finishing kit shipping next week
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Second Battery
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
<bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
I modified the battery tray to accept a pair of PC-680s (17 AH each) instead
of the stock single 25 AH battery. Adds a few pounds total weight but I
opted for extra redundancy that will partially offset the ballast that the
factory carries.
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Second Battery
I have searched the archives and not found an answer to the following
questions. To those of you who are going to use a dual electrical system,
where have you placed the second battery? What is the effect does the
placement have on weight and balance.
Thanks for you help
Dick Gurley
#40414
Message 25
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
<http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html> Posted April 30th at 7:42PM
from Tim's site. I have created a nifty excel sheet which allows
unlimited manipulation of weights and balance changes. And I have
requested Tim give me the datum arm to the rear tie down mount for that
70 pound jettisonable water bottle idea.
That's 12147 inch pounds to relocate along the longitudinal somewhere.
Shaking the bush.
John _ KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Second Battery
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
The dual Odyssey batteries seem like a pretty slick idea. Anyone have
any
practical CG numbers that could see if there's any potential situation
with
too aft a CG with the extra 5.5lbs at the battery location?
To further the question, I know there was a PDF file posted from the
finishing kit weight & balance info but I can't find it in the archives.
Could someone steer me in the right direction?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
QB wings & finishing kit shipping next week
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