Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:32 AM - Re: Ice Cream Social at OSH? (Mike Kraus)
2. 06:23 AM - Re: N610RV News? (Bobby J. Hughes)
3. 07:56 AM - Re: N610RV News? (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
4. 09:08 AM - Re: Ice Cream Social at OSH? (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
5. 09:42 AM - (Chris Johnston)
6. 09:53 AM - new builder - first time poster (Chris Johnston)
7. 10:03 AM - Re: new builder - first time poster (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
8. 10:07 AM - Re: (Tim Olson)
9. 10:08 AM - Re: (linn walters)
10. 10:20 AM - Re: (Jesse Saint)
11. 10:23 AM - Re: new builder - first time poster (Rick)
12. 10:41 AM - Re: new builder - first time poster (Darton Steve)
13. 10:44 AM - Re: (Russell Daves)
14. 11:01 AM - Re: new builder - first time poster (John Jessen)
15. 11:14 AM - (Chris Johnston)
16. 11:43 AM - CAD files (.dxf or .dwg) of instruments (Tim Olson)
17. 11:51 AM - New numbers from N610RV (Randy's Abros mail)
18. 12:08 PM - Re: (Jesse Saint)
19. 12:12 PM - Re: Ice Cream Social at OSH? (Randy DeBauw)
20. 12:16 PM - Re: new builder - first time poster (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
21. 12:40 PM - Re: no match drill (Darton Steve)
22. 12:40 PM - Re: (Tim Olson)
23. 12:44 PM - Cessna Split master dimensions (Tim Olson)
24. 01:11 PM - Re: Cessna Split master dimensions (RobHickman@aol.com)
25. 01:26 PM - Re: (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
26. 01:27 PM - Re: Ice Cream Social at OSH? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
27. 01:27 PM - NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
28. 01:35 PM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 37 Msgs - 07/14/05 (Buhwana)
29. 02:22 PM - Re: Reamers (Rick)
30. 02:33 PM - Ice Cream Social Date and Times (Tim Olson)
31. 02:36 PM - Re: Cessna Split master dimensions (Tim Olson)
32. 03:10 PM - Re: Reamers (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
33. 03:13 PM - Re: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS (Byron Gillespie)
34. 03:22 PM - Re: Ice Cream Social at OSH? (Russell Daves)
35. 03:30 PM - Re: no match drill (Russell Daves)
36. 03:32 PM - Re: Reamers (Tim Olson)
37. 03:36 PM - Re: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
38. 03:44 PM - Re: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS (John W. Cox)
39. 03:45 PM - Re: no match drill (John Jessen)
40. 03:46 PM - Re: Reamers (Russell Daves)
41. 03:48 PM - Re: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
42. 04:09 PM - Re: Ice Cream Social at OSH? (Gary Specketer)
43. 04:12 PM - Re: new builder - first time poster (Mark Grieve)
44. 04:39 PM - Re: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS (David Talley)
45. 04:46 PM - RV-10s coming to Oshkosh? (Jeff Point)
46. 05:10 PM - Re: no match drill (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
47. 06:12 PM - Electrical Tools-Wiring Supplies-Harnesses and More ()
48. 06:25 PM - Dynon D100 (Sean Stephens)
49. 06:33 PM - Re: no match drill (Chris)
50. 06:33 PM - Re: Ice Cream Social at OSH? (Mani Ravee)
51. 06:36 PM - Re: Reamers (Chris)
52. 06:37 PM - Re: Ice Cream Social Date and Times (Mani Ravee)
53. 07:44 PM - Re: no match drill (Russell Daves)
54. 08:14 PM - Re: no match drill (JOHN STARN)
55. 08:38 PM - bandsaw (Bill and Tami Britton)
56. 09:14 PM - Re: bandsaw (AndrewTR30@aol.com)
57. 09:15 PM - Re: bandsaw (John Jessen)
58. 09:31 PM - Re: bandsaw (JOHN STARN)
59. 10:01 PM - Re: RV-10s coming to Oshkosh? (Jesse Saint)
60. 11:11 PM - Re: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS (Eric Panning)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Ice Cream Social at OSH? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
I fly in on Wednesday, Thursday, Fri, or Sat work for me
Mike Kraus
RV-4 flying
RV-10 hanger flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools (he's a -10 builder too) would like
to see if there's interest in an ice cream social on something like
Monday night at OSH. (or, another date if a different one works better)
Any input?? You can email the list, or Mike at mike@cleavelandtool.com
I told him I'd report back if there was interest and what seemed to be
the best date.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes@qnsi.net>
Rick,
I would like some more information also. I have not been able to find a
LCD screen that was usable above 10,000 ft in an un-pressurized
environment. I know they are out there because Blue Mountain and others
have them.
Bobby
40116
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Combs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N610RV News?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
I too am interested.
Thanks, Jim Combs
#40192
N312F
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Me too....
if we have a quorum... maybe we should keep it on list?
James
John Jessen wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>I'm interested as well. Please include me in your off list
discussion...
>
>John Jessen
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 2:50 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
>I would love some more details (you can e-mail me off the list) of your
>system.
>
>Jesse Saint
>I-TEC, Inc.
>jesse@itecusa.org
>www.itecusa.org
>W: 352-465-4545
>C: 352-427-0285
>F: 815-377-3694
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Conti, Rick
>Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 8:46 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti@boeing.com>
>
>Tim,
>
>I have a 12" touch screen on the co-pilot side that will connect to a
>laptop stored on the right forward sidewall. Movies for the co-pilot,
>approach plates and taxi diagrams for the pilot at the touch of a
>finger. The screen will be switchable to the Blue Mountain EFIS
display on the pilot's side.
>
>Thank You
>Rick Conti
>office: 703-414-6141
> cell: 571-215-6134
>
>
>
--
There is an art . . . to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw
yourself at the ground and miss. - Douglas Adams, 'The Hitchhikers Guide
to the Galaxy'
Message 3
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
How about we have the discussion on here, because I am interested also,
and have been looking at tablets, 17" touch screens, and virtual
keyboards. The key board is projected on a flat surface and it detects
your finger movements, so there is no need for an actual keyboard, also
there is roll up/ foldable indestructible keyboards we use in
manufacturing, that are impervious to spills, with our combined efforts
we might be able to come up with a god solution
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
I'm interested as well. Please include me in your off list
discussion...
John Jessen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
I would love some more details (you can e-mail me off the list) of your
system.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Conti, Rick
Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti@boeing.com>
Tim,
I have a 12" touch screen on the co-pilot side that will connect to a
laptop
stored on the right forward sidewall. Movies for the co-pilot, approach
plates and taxi diagrams for the pilot at the touch of a finger. The
screen
will be switchable to the Blue Mountain EFIS display on the pilot's
side.
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703-414-6141
cell: 571-215-6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com]
Subject: Re: RV10-List: N610RV News?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I LOVE the nitrous idea....I suppose I could always give them extra
dramamine. ;) I'm planning to put in rear seat movies,
but as a post-flying install. I definitely see your point
about the stops. Usually I can keep the stops with the kids to under 30
minutes, but it does add to the trip. I didn't care in the past because
on
a 1000 mile trip, I wanted to land and get a weather radar picture, but,
now
I'll have that in my cockpit.....so I may as well keep the range up and
move
along.
Hey, post a shot or two of your trim system...would be interesting to
all.
Definitely look me up at OSH...can't wait to see your -10!
Tim
Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> One of the big issues for us on fuel burn vs. flight time is whether
or not
> you will have to make a stop. If you are going 1,000 miles (yes, I am
> talking statue number as always, sorry), it would be better to back it
off
> to wherever it is required to make it non-stop. Descending and buying
fuel,
> and getting back in for another hour or two actually adds about and
hour or
> two to the flight and might add more whining to the kids. You know, a
> little bit of nitros-oxide added to the rear seat passengers' oxygen
would
> take care of most of the whining, but then I guess you are increasing
your
> cost again. OH YEAH, invest in a DVD player and they can sit forever,
> right?
>
> IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE USE!
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 4:24 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Keep it in perspective though......my Sundowner does 9-9.5 @
> 110-112 Kts. Who really cares what the fuel flow is when
> you pull it way back that far. Fuel flow is directly related to
> speed...and speed is distance and time.
>
> For instance, would you rather rent a plane for $50/hr that goes
> 100kts, or one that goes 150Kts for $75/hr if you were going on a
> 1000Nm trip?
>
> Do the math and sure, the fuel burn may be much higher on the $75/hr
> plane, but the cost of the flight will be identical, and you'll get
> there over 3 hours quicker.
>
> Sure, you can get some slight economies by pulling the power
> back...Van's charts show the range increase as you reduce to lower %
> of power, but, is it really that big of a difference in the big scheme
> of things? I myself would rather get there before the kids get whiny,
> and pay the extra couple bucks.
>
> As for Randy's performance numbers, I'm not at all concerned what the
> fuel flow is at 125kts. I'd be much more interested to know what it
> flows at 165, 175, and 185Kts.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>>
>>That's actually not very great news, 10.5 @ 125. Is this typical? I
used
>>to do 12 @ 135 in the 182. I was hoping for better.
>>
>>John Jessen
>> (riveting the VS and rudder)
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy
DeBauw
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 12:04 PM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>>
>>Well I am in the final phase of painting the wheel pants. It is time
for
>>another oil change. The oxy bottle will get purchased and hopefully
>>installed before Osh. The carpet is going in soon.
>>
>>I don't have enough time with the wheel pants on to get some true
numbers
>>but Osh is coming up and should have some real numbers on a long trip
like
>>that. I appears that if you pull back on the power at you can get
about
>>10.5 gal an hour at 125 kts.
>>I still carry about 50 lbs in the baggage area when 2 up and pull it
with
>
> 4.
>
>>It really handles 4 people well. In fact I prefer 4 people.
>>Myself, full fuel and 50 lbs in the back is fine. More trim and hold
some
>>back pressure for the flare. Keep the speed up. Full flaps on all
>
> landings
>
>>seems to work best. Slower speed at touch down. The tires look great.
>
> Almost
>
>>no wear at 42 hours. Everyone that has ridden says how quiet it is. I
>
> have
>
>>the single mufflers system. Even people standing next to it when I had
the
>>prop balanced said it was quite and that was running at 2300 RPM for
10
>>seconds or so. The prop balance was a big help. I could feel it in the
>>rudder peddles before. Can't wait to get to Osh. With it but I have a
lot
>
> of
>
>>work to still do in 1 weekend and a few weeknights. After Osh. It will
be
>>almost done and I can get back to that
>>lawn. Where was that mower? I saw it 21 months ago.... Randy
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean
Stephens
>>Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:10 AM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV10-List: N610RV News?
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
>>
>>Hey Randy, any more little tidbits of interesting info since the
flyoff?
>>Just wondering how things are going. Hope you are having a blast!
>>
>>I just need a little "builder boost". :)
>>
>>-Sean #40303 nearing end of flaps
>>
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Ice Cream Social at OSH? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
We will also be driving our Expedition, and will be camping so we could
run taxi duty
Dan
40269
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sponcil
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Brian Sponcil"
<bsponcil@belinblank.org>
Sounds good. We'll have a van ifin people want to try to make it to the
drive-in. It'd have to be M-Th for us.
-Brian
Iowa City, IA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools (he's a -10 builder too)
> would like to see if there's interest in an ice cream social
> on something like Monday night at OSH. (or, another date if
> a different one works better)
>
> Any input?? You can email the list, or Mike at
> mike@cleavelandtool.com
>
> I told him I'd report back if there was interest and what
> seemed to be the best date.
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 5
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0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY: HTML contains text after HTML close tag
0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag
Hey all -
My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been building
for about a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's the
dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a
skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do
the horizontal stab, and I'm wondering if that's overkill. When I look
at pictures of other people building, it seems as though not every hole
needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during match drilling etc.
opinions are appreciated.
Thanks all
cj
Message 6
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| Subject: | new builder - first time poster |
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY: HTML contains text after HTML close tag
0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag
Hey all -
My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been building
for about a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's the
dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a
skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do
the horizontal stab, and I'm wondering if that's overkill. When I look
at pictures of other people building, it seems as though not every hole
needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during match drilling etc.
opinions are appreciated.
Thanks all
cj
Message 7
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| Subject: | new builder - first time poster |
Chris,
You just need enough clecos to hold things in alignment while match
drilling and final assembly. For panels and parts with a lot of flat
section you'll see clecos spaced with 4-5 holes between, on parts like
the airfoil leading edges or other with curves you'll find that you
might actually need them in every hole along the curve - especially when
match drilling. After skins are dimpled you'll find that the dimples
will help with part alignment. You will need a LOT of clecos though for
the tailcone and wings!
Bob #40105
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Subject: RV10-List: new builder - first time poster
Hey all -
My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been building
for about a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's the
dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a
skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do
the horizontal stab, and I'm wondering if that's overkill. When I look
at pictures of other people building, it seems as though not every hole
needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during match drilling etc.
opinions are appreciated.
Thanks all
cj
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: <was nothing...now is cleco count> |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Probably don't quite get the award for the dumbest question...I myself
have come close to getting that one at times. ;)
Your 1000 extra will be overkill. You need about 750 total
to comfortably do the tailcone. Probably a tiny *tiny* bit
less for the wings, but 750 would be great there. Once
you finish the wings and tail, I can't give advice on a slowbuild
fuselage, but on a QB, you hardly need any more 3/32 clecos.
I'm assuming this whole conversation is only the silver 3/32"
clecos....these numbers are NOT for the copper ones...1/8".
You sometimes will have times that the plans call for clecoing
every hole. But, most of the time, every 2nd or 3rd hole will
be fine. Just try to look at what you're doing and judge how
far it can get out of line if you don't put them all in.
In *almost* every case, every other hole would be the most
you need.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
Chris Johnston wrote:
> Hey all
>
> My name is Chris Johnston and Im a new RV-10 builder. Been building
> for about a month, and currently working on elevators. Heres the
> dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a
> skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do
> the horizontal stab, and Im wondering if thats overkill. When I look
> at pictures of other people building, it seems as though not every hole
> needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during match drilling etc.
> opinions are appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks all
>
> cj
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: : RV10-List: |
Chris Johnston wrote:
> Hey all -
>
> My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been building
> for about a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's the
> dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a
> skin when assembling?
>
No. You need to leave at least one hole without a cleco so you can
drill it! :-D
OK, bad joke.
Depending on the fit you can sometimes cleco every three holes. Cleco,
count 3 holes, cleco. As the fit gets worse (you have to press the two
parts together) then you work toward every other hole. Now, that's just
MY opinion. Basically, the more cleco's, the less 'creep' you get, so
keep that in mind.
> I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do the horizontal stab,
> and I'm wondering if that's overkill.
>
You cannot have too many cleco's. Your supply will slowly dwindle over
time ..... but they do come back ...... as coathangers in your closet.
Trust me. The more cleco's that disappeared, the more empty hangars
appeared in my closet.
> When I look at pictures of other people building, it seems as though
> not every hole needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during
> match drilling etc. opinions are appreciated.
>
Well, you got my opinion. If you have a notion to test it, cleco all
the holes before riveting and see just how much 'twist' or movement you
get! Now think how much stronger that assembly will be with rivets in it!!!
Linn
do not archive
>
>
> Thanks all
>
> cj
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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CJ,
I am sure different builders do it different ways. We would cleco every
hole only on places where the parts would tend to wander (when there is a
bend or it is under tension or doesn't seem to fit really well to start
with). On straight flat sections we would use a cleco every 3rd or 4th
hole, depending on how well they held together. Then we would drill all the
open holes and move the clecos down or over one hole (to remember which
holes had not been drilled) and drill the remaining holes. For riveting, we
did it the same way. In fact we used fewer clecos for riveting than for
drilling sometimes. I am sure some on the list will criticize this
practice, but it worked and we are flying. The purpose for clecos are to
hold the parts in place so you can get them drilled and lined up and all
that good stuff. If the rivets fit in the holes and the plane flies, then I
guess the practice was acceptable. On some issues this litmus test would
not work, like bolt torque and stuff like that, which may appear fine at
first and end up causing problems as they "worked" for a while.
Have fun!
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Subject: RV10-List:
Hey all -
My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been building for
about a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's the dumbest
question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a skin when
assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do the horizontal
stab, and I'm wondering if that's overkill. When I look at pictures of
other people building, it seems as though not every hole needs to be clecoed
during pre assembly, or during match drilling etc. opinions are
appreciated.
Thanks all
cj
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: new builder - first time poster |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
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Message 12
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=uZYwdXIPNzaec1brs8MIFdgiCIkd7hApXh3EhrwprzQ2LMBpMVeKZY/MSaQLUZzLki7lo/oqbUoix7qpjy+LOzWQgaSZzLbzikJrhFBLlTAFtcxjvbhJG4uwvn0g624sL4RZnOfJILcyYMnl0EC9bHMGZirThIijCVOvFKmIOL8=
;
| Subject: | Re: new builder - first time poster |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Chris,
At most normally you Cleco every other hole so that
some holes are open to match drill. Use enough Clecos
that your assembly is held together sufficiently that
you can "handle" it while drilling. I typically Cleco
every other to every third hole depending on the
thickness of the parts and how well the holes are
lined up. There are places like the HS nose ribs where
I Clecoed 3-4 in a row then removed one Cleco,
drilled, replaced Cleco then repeat on the next hole.
The same process for riveting.
In a nutshell use what it takes to hold the assembly
together and line up all the holes.
Steve 40212 wings
--- Chris Johnston <CJohnston@popsound.com> wrote:
> Hey all -
> My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10
> builder. Been building
> for about a month, and currently working on
> elevators. Here's the
> dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco
> EVERY hole in a
> skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000
> additional clecos to do
> the horizontal stab, and I'm wondering if that's
> overkill. When I look
> at pictures of other people building, it seems as
> though not every hole
> needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during
> match drilling etc.
> opinions are appreciated.
>
> Thanks all
> cj
>
>
__________________________________
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
Message 13
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Dear Chris:
I am also a first time builder. I currently have my fuselage on the gear.
On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and match drill. I clecoed every
other hole, match drilled the vacant holes and the switched the cleco's.
After getting through the HS I decided that match drilling was a waste of time.
I actually misdrilled some holes in small rib ears because the cleco pushed
the ear away and I did not know it because it was down inside where I couldn't
see it until after I took the parts apart.
Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts. I prefer the reamer to the
drill bit. I then deburred the hole, and deburred the edges. Dimpled where necessary,
primed the parts and put them together with clecos for the very first
time, ready to rivet.
I found that the clecos went in much better where the parts were reamed before
clecoing and did not push any of the ears back like I had done in the past.
The CAD parts machine has made the parts go together without a hitch so far.
Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved loads of time but it has also
produced fewer double holes in rib ears. It is easy to tell if the rib ear
has been caught by the cleco during riveting because even down deep in the part
you are reaching your hand donw inside with the bucking bar to buck anyway.
On the few times that I have not caught the rib ear and was ready to rivet,
it was easy to push the rib ear in place and work the rivet into the hole even
though the parts had not been mached drilled.
On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes after putting
the parts together, where I had not match drilled, but then again back when I
was match drilling I had to do that as well.
Good luck on your project.
Russ Daves
N710 RV (Reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Johnston
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: RV10-List:
Hey all -
My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been building for about
a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's the dumbest question of
the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a skin when assembling? I ended
up buying 1000 additional clecos to do the horizontal stab, and I'm wondering
if that's overkill. When I look at pictures of other people building, it
seems as though not every hole needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during
match drilling etc. opinions are appreciated.
Thanks all
cj
Message 14
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|
d="scan'208,217"; a="62535991:sNHT37882052"
| Subject: | new builder - first time poster |
CJ. The purpose of the clecos is, in part, to hold things in rigid
alignment so you can (take your pick) measure, mark, drill, rivet, take
pictures... So you need to determine what level of holding power you need,
and that depends on the thing being worked on. Rule of thumb, however, is
to have the hole you are working on surrounded by clecos or some strong
force that assures your piece stays put while you do your thing. On the
-10, which is so nicely prepunched and aligned, I typically use every other
hole when match drilling and riveting, unless I believe that I need to
assure myself that all those parts that might be under tension and thus
might not be aligned correctly because of that, are secured, such as curved
skin to rib matching.
It's great to hear that after only a month you are on your elevators! If
you are clecoing every hole and are making that kind of time, who cares.
Cleco away!
John Jessen
(behind CJ, but enjoying the ride)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Subject: RV10-List: new builder - first time poster
Hey all -
My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been building for
about a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's the dumbest
question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a skin when
assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do the horizontal
stab, and I'm wondering if that's overkill. When I look at pictures of
other people building, it seems as though not every hole needs to be clecoed
during pre assembly, or during match drilling etc. opinions are
appreciated.
Thanks all
cj
Message 15
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0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY: HTML contains text after HTML close tag
0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag
Wow. I've really been wasting time. Well, better to find out now than
later. My girlfriend and I have been teaming up on the build, and we
would cleco EVERY hole during pre assembly. She'd then pull the clecos
one at a time, I'd drill, then she'd replace it and move to the next
one. Then we'd break it all down, prime etc, then re-assemble with a
cleco in every hole again. Then she'd remove the clecos one at a time
while I rivet. Whoa - I'm discovering just what a colossal waste of
time it has been. Oh well. I guess the build will go a lot quicker from
here on out. Thanks for all the input everybody. I REALLY appreciate
it.
cj
Message 16
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| Subject: | CAD files (.dxf or .dwg) of instruments |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Does anyone have any pre-made CAD files for instruments in .dxf or .dwg
format....specifically would like to get some for 2.25" round
instruments, the split master switch, Hobbs meter, and perhaps a GNS480,
SL30, GTX330, and PMA8000. Some of these should be pretty easy
to draw up, but if there are preexisting files, it could save some
time tossing them together.
Thanks for any that you can provide, or any tips as to good repositories
to go looking in.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 17
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| Subject: | New numbers from N610RV |
I trip yesterday. East bound 168kt at 9500ft. Full throttle (about 21.3
mp) and 2300 rpm. 14.5 gph. 100 deg rich of peek.
West bound 172 kts same mp and rpm but without front wheel pant ( make sure
you have at least 3/4 of an inch clearence on the tire). I didn't and it
caught the rear edge of the wheel pant and cracked it. That is why I have
been flying it without painted wheel pants. Easy fix now, tough later with
paint. Randy
Message 18
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I have to say that I like this idea. On some parts where you need to match
drill, this obviously won't work, but it is true that the holes are so well
aligned that you can just ream the holes before putting them together and
save a TON of time. You add a measure of risk, but if you get it clecoed
together and ready to rivet and you notice something is not right, you can
just take that part off or whatever is needed to make it work. I have to
admit that it is a little discouraging to get a whole section together with
clecos only to have to take it apart again. KUDOS to you Russell for going
where we didn't try to go.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Subject: Re: RV10-List:
Dear Chris:
I am also a first time builder. I currently have my fuselage on the gear.
On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and match drill. I clecoed
every other hole, match drilled the vacant holes and the switched the
cleco's.
After getting through the HS I decided that match drilling was a waste of
time. I actually misdrilled some holes in small rib ears because the cleco
pushed the ear away and I did not know it because it was down inside where I
couldn't see it until after I took the parts apart.
Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts. I prefer the reamer to
the drill bit. I then deburred the hole, and deburred the edges. Dimpled
where necessary, primed the parts and put them together with clecos for the
very first time, ready to rivet.
I found that the clecos went in much better where the parts were reamed
before clecoing and did not push any of the ears back like I had done in the
past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go together without a hitch
so far.
Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved loads of time but it
has also produced fewer double holes in rib ears. It is easy to tell if the
rib ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting because even down deep
in the part you are reaching your hand donw inside with the bucking bar to
buck anyway. On the few times that I have not caught the rib ear and was
ready to rivet, it was easy to push the rib ear in place and work the rivet
into the hole even though the parts had not been mached drilled.
On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes after
putting the parts together, where I had not match drilled, but then again
back when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
Good luck on your project.
Russ Daves
N710 RV (Reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris <mailto:CJohnston@popsound.com> Johnston
Subject: RV10-List:
Hey all -
My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been building for
about a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's the dumbest
question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a skin when
assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do the horizontal
stab, and I'm wondering if that's overkill. When I look at pictures of
other people building, it seems as though not every hole needs to be clecoed
during pre assembly, or during match drilling etc. opinions are
appreciated.
Thanks all
cj
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Ice Cream Social at OSH? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
I wonder if it would work to have it at a Vendors location on Tuesday
and Friday. That would give everyone a good place to meet. Also If we
can get someone with some freezer space in there motor home or with a
car that can go pick up the goods at a local store. We can all pitch in
3-5 $ each. Mike any interest? Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus"
--> <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
I fly in on Wednesday, Thursday, Fri, or Sat work for me Mike Kraus
RV-4 flying
RV-10 hanger flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools (he's a -10 builder too) would like
to see if there's interest in an ice cream social on something like
Monday night at OSH. (or, another date if a different one works better)
Any input?? You can email the list, or Mike at mike@cleavelandtool.com
I told him I'd report back if there was interest and what seemed to be
the best date.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 20
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| Subject: | new builder - first time poster |
I used every 4th hole on the wings going from wing root out and every
other hole for and aft. Randy
________________________________
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: new builder - first time poster
CJ. The purpose of the clecos is, in part, to hold things in rigid
alignment so you can (take your pick) measure, mark, drill, rivet, take
pictures... So you need to determine what level of holding power you
need, and that depends on the thing being worked on. Rule of thumb,
however, is to have the hole you are working on surrounded by clecos or
some strong force that assures your piece stays put while you do your
thing. On the -10, which is so nicely prepunched and aligned, I
typically use every other hole when match drilling and riveting, unless
I believe that I need to assure myself that all those parts that might
be under tension and thus might not be aligned correctly because of
that, are secured, such as curved skin to rib matching.
It's great to hear that after only a month you are on your elevators!
If you are clecoing every hole and are making that kind of time, who
cares. Cleco away!
John Jessen
(behind CJ, but enjoying the ride)
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 9:53 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: new builder - first time poster
=09
=09
Hey all -
My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been
building for about a month, and currently working on elevators. Here's
the dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a
skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do
the horizontal stab, and I'm wondering if that's overkill. When I look
at pictures of other people building, it seems as though not every hole
needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during match drilling etc.
opinions are appreciated.
Thanks all
cj
Message 21
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|
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=rZ++aeaGNnNB3Gb03EkfGnsq/A94dV9PRrpJWyChJtL4Ypg+1bp0MCOu3ow3eLeH91zaGvWvgZDYIQh8ISSvQFlDG/qxUlbCQuFTVP77L1UVSdZFITe4PONplaP5xvuVeQB5Vz1R7jE/MogzO78BjkSGTG9yZYjrEeFflH/2rrA=
;
| Subject: | Re: no match drill |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Russ,
Last year when I was riveting the half ribs on the
bottom elevator skin I went off the edge of the back
rivet plate on the last rivet of a rib. It put a 1/2"
long crack in the skin. I bought a new skin and rib to
replace the damaged parts. All of the parts the new
skin mated to were now already drilled and dimpled.
with this in mind I decided that it would be difficult
or impossible to cleco a new skin to ribs and spars
that were already drilled and dimpled. I simply
drilled the rivet holes on the replacement skin to the
correct size then deburred and dimpled. There is
absolutely NO difference between the fit and finish of
that elevator and the other elevator that was
constructed with the conventional "match drill"
technique. At that time I was tempted to skip the
"match drill" step and do as you have been doing. I
decided to play it safe.
How much of your project have you done this way? Have
you had ANY issues of miss-alignment/whatever due to
not "match drilling"?
Is any one else out there doing this?
Steve 40212 Wings (all match drilled)
--- Russell Daves <dav1111@cox.net> wrote:
> Dear Chris:
>
> I am also a first time builder. I currently have my
> fuselage on the gear.
>
> On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and
> match drill. I clecoed every other hole, match
> drilled the vacant holes and the switched the
> cleco's.
>
> After getting through the HS I decided that match
> drilling was a waste of time. I actually misdrilled
> some holes in small rib ears because the cleco
> pushed the ear away and I did not know it because it
> was down inside where I couldn't see it until after
> I took the parts apart.
>
> Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts.
> I prefer the reamer to the drill bit. I then
> deburred the hole, and deburred the edges. Dimpled
> where necessary, primed the parts and put them
> together with clecos for the very first time, ready
> to rivet.
>
> I found that the clecos went in much better where
> the parts were reamed before clecoing and did not
> push any of the ears back like I had done in the
> past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go
> together without a hitch so far.
>
> Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved
> loads of time but it has also produced fewer double
> holes in rib ears. It is easy to tell if the rib
> ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting
> because even down deep in the part you are reaching
> your hand donw inside with the bucking bar to buck
> anyway. On the few times that I have not caught the
> rib ear and was ready to rivet, it was easy to push
> the rib ear in place and work the rivet into the
> hole even though the parts had not been mached
> drilled.
>
> On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer
> though the holes after putting the parts together,
> where I had not match drilled, but then again back
> when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
>
> Good luck on your project.
>
> Russ Daves
> N710 RV (Reserved)
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: : RV10-List: |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
When I read his note, I thought the same thing...it was like.. "DUH",
after spending all of this time match drilling, then ripping it apart
again, I think I would have been better off just doing exactly like he
did in most cases. Glad it worked for you...wish I'd have heard
this one a LONG time ago. ;)
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I have to say that I like this idea. On some parts where you need to
> match drill, this obviously wont work, but it is true that the holes
> are so well aligned that you can just ream the holes before putting them
> together and save a TON of time. You add a measure of risk, but if you
> get it clecoed together and ready to rivet and you notice something is
> not right, you can just take that part off or whatever is needed to make
> it work. I have to admit that it is a little discouraging to get a
> whole section together with clecos only to have to take it apart again.
> KUDOS to you Russell for going where we didnt try to go.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Russell Daves
> *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2005 1:44 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List:
>
>
>
> Dear Chris:
>
>
>
> I am also a first time builder. I currently have my fuselage on the gear.
>
>
>
> On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and match drill. I
> clecoed every other hole, match drilled the vacant holes and the
> switched the cleco's.
>
>
>
> After getting through the HS I decided that match drilling was a waste
> of time. I actually misdrilled some holes in small rib ears because the
> cleco pushed the ear away and I did not know it because it was down
> inside where I couldn't see it until after I took the parts apart.
>
>
>
> Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts. I prefer the reamer
> to the drill bit. I then deburred the hole, and deburred the edges.
> Dimpled where necessary, primed the parts and put them together with
> clecos for the very first time, ready to rivet.
>
>
>
> I found that the clecos went in much better where the parts were reamed
> before clecoing and did not push any of the ears back like I had done in
> the past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go together without
> a hitch so far.
>
>
>
> Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved loads of time but
> it has also produced fewer double holes in rib ears. It is easy to tell
> if the rib ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting because even
> down deep in the part you are reaching your hand donw inside with the
> bucking bar to buck anyway. On the few times that I have not caught the
> rib ear and was ready to rivet, it was easy to push the rib ear in place
> and work the rivet into the hole even though the parts had not been
> mached drilled.
>
>
>
> On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes after
> putting the parts together, where I had not match drilled, but then
> again back when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
>
>
>
> Good luck on your project.
>
>
>
> Russ Daves
>
> N710 RV (Reserved)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Chris Johnston <mailto:CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2005 11:41 AM
>
> *Subject:* RV10-List:
>
>
>
> Hey all
>
> My name is Chris Johnston and Im a new RV-10 builder. Been
> building for about a month, and currently working on elevators.
> Heres the dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco
> EVERY hole in a skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000
> additional clecos to do the horizontal stab, and Im wondering if
> thats overkill. When I look at pictures of other people building,
> it seems as though not every hole needs to be clecoed during pre
> assembly, or during match drilling etc. opinions are appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks all
>
> cj
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Cessna Split master dimensions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Does anyone know the hole cutout size for the cessna split
master (dual rocker) switch? We ran into a problem where
the waterjet cutting company had their tool break down, so
we had them ship my panel came back uncut. I'm now assembling
everything in CAD and drawing it out and going to use a friends
end mill to cut the panel this weekend so we can wire it
Monday.
Any dimensions on that rocker switch would be great, and if
you've ever milled a panel, or have other stuff that would
be good for tips, send them on...tomorrow's the day.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cessna Split master dimensions |
Tim
My panels measure .705 wide x 1.275" high
Rob Hickman
Message 25
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Ya, I've been wondering if you could get away with this. Everything always lines
up so well and I also cracked a bulkhead because the drill slipped passed
the ear and bent it around. Does anyone have a good reason to not at least try
this? I think I might give it a try on the wings.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
When I read his note, I thought the same thing...it was like.. "DUH", after spending
all of this time match drilling, then ripping it apart again, I think I
would have been better off just doing exactly like he
did in most cases. Glad it worked for you...wish I'd have heard
this one a LONG time ago. ;)
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I have to say that I like this idea. On some parts where you need to
> match drill, this obviously won't work, but it is true that the holes
> are so well aligned that you can just ream the holes before putting
> them together and save a TON of time. You add a measure of risk, but
> if you get it clecoed together and ready to rivet and you notice
> something is not right, you can just take that part off or whatever is
> needed to make it work. I have to admit that it is a little
> discouraging to get a whole section together with clecos only to have to take
it apart again.
> KUDOS to you Russell for going where we didn't try to go.
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> --
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Russell
> Daves
> *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2005 1:44 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List:
>
>
> Dear Chris:
>
>
> I am also a first time builder. I currently have my fuselage on the gear.
>
>
> On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and match drill. I
> clecoed every other hole, match drilled the vacant holes and the
> switched the cleco's.
>
>
> After getting through the HS I decided that match drilling was a waste
> of time. I actually misdrilled some holes in small rib ears because
> the cleco pushed the ear away and I did not know it because it was
> down inside where I couldn't see it until after I took the parts apart.
>
>
> Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts. I prefer the
> reamer to the drill bit. I then deburred the hole, and deburred the edges.
> Dimpled where necessary, primed the parts and put them together with
> clecos for the very first time, ready to rivet.
>
>
> I found that the clecos went in much better where the parts were
> reamed before clecoing and did not push any of the ears back like I
> had done in the past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go
> together without a hitch so far.
>
>
> Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved loads of time but
> it has also produced fewer double holes in rib ears. It is easy to
> tell if the rib ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting
> because even down deep in the part you are reaching your hand donw
> inside with the bucking bar to buck anyway. On the few times that I
> have not caught the rib ear and was ready to rivet, it was easy to
> push the rib ear in place and work the rivet into the hole even though
> the parts had not been mached drilled.
>
>
> On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes
> after putting the parts together, where I had not match drilled, but
> then again back when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
>
>
> Good luck on your project.
>
>
> Russ Daves
>
> N710 RV (Reserved)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* Chris Johnston <mailto:CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 15, 2005 11:41 AM
>
> *Subject:* RV10-List:
>
>
>
> Hey all -
>
> My name is Chris Johnston and I'm a new RV-10 builder. Been
> building for about a month, and currently working on elevators.
> Here's the dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco
> EVERY hole in a skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000
> additional clecos to do the horizontal stab, and I'm wondering if
> that's overkill. When I look at pictures of other people building,
> it seems as though not every hole needs to be clecoed during pre
> assembly, or during match drilling etc. opinions are appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thanks all
>
> cj
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Ice Cream Social at OSH? |
Hmm, after all the discussion on this subject I think we lost sight of the original
post. Thought I would remind everyone. We definitely have interest, just
need to let Mike know a date I think.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools (he's a -10 builder too) would like to see
if there's interest in an ice cream social on something like Monday night at OSH.
(or, another date if a different one works better)
Any input?? You can email the list, or Mike at mike@cleavelandtool.com
I told him I'd report back if there was interest and what seemed to be the best
date.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 27
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| Subject: | NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS |
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY": rv10-list@matronics.com
Just saw this in an email from Kitplanes on the next issue....
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Engine Components Incorporated (ECI) and Lycoming prepare to drop big news on the
AirVenture crowd. Remember that you read it here first!
Message 28
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d="scan'208,217"; a="1125428546:sNHT35837646"
| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 37 Msgs - 07/14/05 |
0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY: HTML contains text after HTML close tag
0.06 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_BODY BODY: HTML contains text after BODY close tag
Also don't forget "Art and Arties" or something close to that which
is between the airport and the Lake. Girls on rollerskates bring you
your food! Could this be th place you are referring to or are there two?
tom RV-10 lurker
On Jul 15, 2005, at 1:57 AM, RV10-List Digest Server wrote:
> Sounds good to me. Too bad we don't have more transportation, one
> of the best
> drive in's around (and supposedly what Happy Days was based on) is
> on the opposite
> end of town. It's a place called Leon's. Haven't been there in
> probably
> 10 years but I drove past there a couple weeks ago and it's still
> there. Wasn't
> sure as Oshkosh is undergoing a "revitalization" and a lot of old
> places
> (like Field's Ice Cream) are gone. Freaky how I lived in OSH for
> several years
> when I was going to school there and now it seems a little foreign.
Message 29
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DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 30
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| Subject: | Ice Cream Social Date and Times |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mike has the times down for the Ice Cream Social. Sorry to anyone that
this leaves out....I'm sure you understand that it's just impossible to
get everyone unless you have one every day.
Tuesday and Friday at 6:00pm at the Cleaveland Aircraft Tools.
Outdoor exhibit #125 between buildings A & C toward the fly
market. Randy's RV-10 will be a hundred feet up the hill from
the booth!
(I'll try to put this on a map if I can come up with one)
Tim
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Cessna Split master dimensions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Awesome Rob, thanks!! That's easy enough to draw.
Just a rectangle I presume, and no special other
holes.
Tim
> Tim
>
> My panels measure .705 wide x 1.275" high
>
> Rob Hickman
>
>
Message 32
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|
Oh no! Not the reamer versus drilling war! Reamers carry the same designation
as drill bits and look a lot like one. The only differences are that they
only work on holes that are close to final size and they are generally accepted
to make a more accurately round hole. Man my grammer is shot for the week.
The Unibit, also known as a step drill, is a bit of a cross between a drill bit
and a reamer. Everyone that I have ever talked to will swear by their reamers.
Quite frankly I don't really know why I don't use them. And yes, I believe,
a chucking reamer is what you want.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Reamers
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Ok, I'll ask the question now since I wondered about this since seeing reamers
in the tool catalogs.
First, Do you buy a chucking reamer? Does it operate just like a drill bit? Is
is a number 40/30? (I ask because I read where someone was using them exclusivly
to match drill and I think is was a number 41 or something). The idea is sound
and I can relate to the ear holes getting missed although I eliminated this
by lining up the holes with an awl on those situations. FWIW EVERY one of my
holes has lined up to date and others say the same for the fuselage. What say
you Russ? (O'Reily question)
Rick S.
40185
Wings.....6000 holes too late for this tip.
Message 33
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|
d="scan'208,217"; a="1135842735:sNHT57611044"
| Subject: | NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS |
I had just read the same note from Kitplanes. Anyone have any more info?
I guess that is why they call the messages teasers.
Byron
More dimpling on the fuselage #40253
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Just saw this in an email from Kitplanes on the next issue....
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Engine Components Incorporated (ECI) and Lycoming prepare to drop big
news on the AirVenture crowd. Remember that you read it here first!
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Ice Cream Social at OSH? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
I like your idea Randy. I know Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools will be
at the Cleaveland Vendor Tent. Why don't we nominate Mike to collect the
money at the Cleaveland Tent and let, either Daniel Lloyd (Expedition
available) or Brian Sponcil (Van available) who have both offered their
vehicles, go get the Ice Cream and fixing at the nearest Walmart or
Supermarket and nominate Gary Specketer's dolphin motorhome as the location
for the Ice Cream Social.
The only issue is the date and since Gary is not arriving until Thursday it
would have to be either Thursday or Friday.
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> I wonder if it would work to have it at a Vendors location on Tuesday
> and Friday. That would give everyone a good place to meet. Also If we
> can get someone with some freezer space in there motor home or with a
> car that can go pick up the goods at a local store. We can all pitch in
> 3-5 $ each. Mike any interest? Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 3:32 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus"
> --> <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
>
> I fly in on Wednesday, Thursday, Fri, or Sat work for me Mike Kraus
> RV-4 flying
> RV-10 hanger flying
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 2:55 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools (he's a -10 builder too) would like
> to see if there's interest in an ice cream social on something like
> Monday night at OSH. (or, another date if a different one works better)
>
> Any input?? You can email the list, or Mike at mike@cleavelandtool.com
>
> I told him I'd report back if there was interest and what seemed to be
> the best date.
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: no match drill |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
Steve
I have had NO problems with misalignment. The only problems I have run into
since stopping match drilling has been as set out below that "On a very few
occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes after putting the parts
together where I had not match drilled, but then again back when I was match
drilling I had to do that as well."
As far as how much of the project I have done this way I would say about 50%
and still increasing the precentage. I would guess that by the time I reach
the completation of my RV-10 it will be close to 65% not match drilled.
From my experiences I can tell you that if I every build an RV again I will
not match drill anything.
Russ Daves
#40044 (Fuselage on main gear)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darton Steve" <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> Russ,
> Last year when I was riveting the half ribs on the
> bottom elevator skin I went off the edge of the back
> rivet plate on the last rivet of a rib. It put a 1/2"
> long crack in the skin. I bought a new skin and rib to
> replace the damaged parts. All of the parts the new
> skin mated to were now already drilled and dimpled.
> with this in mind I decided that it would be difficult
> or impossible to cleco a new skin to ribs and spars
> that were already drilled and dimpled. I simply
> drilled the rivet holes on the replacement skin to the
> correct size then deburred and dimpled. There is
> absolutely NO difference between the fit and finish of
> that elevator and the other elevator that was
> constructed with the conventional "match drill"
> technique. At that time I was tempted to skip the
> "match drill" step and do as you have been doing. I
> decided to play it safe.
>
> How much of your project have you done this way? Have
> you had ANY issues of miss-alignment/whatever due to
> not "match drilling"?
>
> Is any one else out there doing this?
>
> Steve 40212 Wings (all match drilled)
>
> --- Russell Daves <dav1111@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Dear Chris:
>>
>> I am also a first time builder. I currently have my
>> fuselage on the gear.
>>
>> On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and
>> match drill. I clecoed every other hole, match
>> drilled the vacant holes and the switched the
>> cleco's.
>>
>> After getting through the HS I decided that match
>> drilling was a waste of time. I actually misdrilled
>> some holes in small rib ears because the cleco
>> pushed the ear away and I did not know it because it
>> was down inside where I couldn't see it until after
>> I took the parts apart.
>>
>> Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts.
>> I prefer the reamer to the drill bit. I then
>> deburred the hole, and deburred the edges. Dimpled
>> where necessary, primed the parts and put them
>> together with clecos for the very first time, ready
>> to rivet.
>>
>> I found that the clecos went in much better where
>> the parts were reamed before clecoing and did not
>> push any of the ears back like I had done in the
>> past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go
>> together without a hitch so far.
>>
>> Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved
>> loads of time but it has also produced fewer double
>> holes in rib ears. It is easy to tell if the rib
>> ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting
>> because even down deep in the part you are reaching
>> your hand donw inside with the bucking bar to buck
>> anyway. On the few times that I have not caught the
>> rib ear and was ready to rivet, it was easy to push
>> the rib ear in place and work the rivet into the
>> hole even though the parts had not been mached
>> drilled.
>>
>> On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer
>> though the holes after putting the parts together,
>> where I had not match drilled, but then again back
>> when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
>>
>> Good luck on your project.
>>
>> Russ Daves
>> N710 RV (Reserved)
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 36
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|
<31986364.1121462542026.JavaMail.root@wamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.n
et>
<31986364.1121462542026.JavaMail.root@wamui-norfolk.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Ok, I'll ask the question now
> since I wondered about this since seeing reamers in the tool catalogs.
> First, Do you buy a chucking reamer? Does it operate just like a drill
> bit?
On these prepunched kits, yes, use them just like a drill bit. You
need a near-sized hole to start with though.
Yes, they'd be #30 and #40 just like the drill bits.
You could try to go slightly undersized if you wanted.
The larger reamers I've used for things like the landing
gear, and that bushing hole on the flap area....those you can
buy in decimal inch sizes.
Is is a number 40/30? (I ask because I read where someone was using
> them exclusivly to match drill and I think is was a number 41 or
> something). The idea is sound and I can relate to the ear holes getting
> missed although I eliminated this by lining up the holes with an awl on
> those situations. FWIW EVERY one of my holes has lined up to date and
> others say the same for the fuselage. What say you Russ? (O'Reily
> question) Rick S. 40185 Wings.....6000 holes too late for this tip.
Message 37
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| Subject: | NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS |
I hope it has to do with the long alluded to experimental version of the IO-540.
Sure would be nice to have an viable option in the 20's
Michael
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Gillespie
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
I had just read the same note from Kitplanes. Anyone have any more info? I guess
that is why they call the messages teasers...
Byron
More dimpling on the fuselage #40253
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Subject: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Just saw this in an email from Kitplanes on the next issue....
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Engine Components Incorporated (ECI) and Lycoming prepare to drop big news on the
AirVenture crowd. Remember that you read it here first!
Message 38
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| Subject: | NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS |
Bryon & Mike, maybe they found a way to recycle those out of spec
Certified IO-540 cranks rendered useless with the July 11th SB 566.
Lycoming said today they have enough New / Improved Cranks to make the
change out in 10 hours per block. Could we actually be getting a kit
(Amateur) built IO-540 with electronic ignition, Thielert roller lifters
and that we can balance all components to 1.5 grams each?
10 days and I'm in Wisconsin.
John - KUAO
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron
Gillespie
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
I had just read the same note from Kitplanes. Anyone have any more info?
I guess that is why they call the messages teasers...
Byron
More dimpling on the fuselage #40253
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Just saw this in an email from Kitplanes on the next issue....
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Engine Components Incorporated (ECI) and Lycoming prepare to drop big
news on the AirVenture crowd. Remember that you read it here first!
Message 39
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d="scan'208"; a="62630390:sNHT32535164"
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
So, you use the reamer before clecoing? What about deburring? I'm, as
usual, confused here.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
Steve
I have had NO problems with misalignment. The only problems I have run into
since stopping match drilling has been as set out below that "On a very few
occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes after putting the parts
together where I had not match drilled, but then again back when I was match
drilling I had to do that as well."
As far as how much of the project I have done this way I would say about 50%
and still increasing the precentage. I would guess that by the time I reach
the completation of my RV-10 it will be close to 65% not match drilled.
From my experiences I can tell you that if I every build an RV again I will
not match drill anything.
Russ Daves
#40044 (Fuselage on main gear)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darton Steve" <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> Russ,
> Last year when I was riveting the half ribs on the
> bottom elevator skin I went off the edge of the back
> rivet plate on the last rivet of a rib. It put a 1/2"
> long crack in the skin. I bought a new skin and rib to
> replace the damaged parts. All of the parts the new
> skin mated to were now already drilled and dimpled.
> with this in mind I decided that it would be difficult
> or impossible to cleco a new skin to ribs and spars
> that were already drilled and dimpled. I simply
> drilled the rivet holes on the replacement skin to the
> correct size then deburred and dimpled. There is
> absolutely NO difference between the fit and finish of
> that elevator and the other elevator that was
> constructed with the conventional "match drill"
> technique. At that time I was tempted to skip the
> "match drill" step and do as you have been doing. I
> decided to play it safe.
>
> How much of your project have you done this way? Have
> you had ANY issues of miss-alignment/whatever due to
> not "match drilling"?
>
> Is any one else out there doing this?
>
> Steve 40212 Wings (all match drilled)
>
> --- Russell Daves <dav1111@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Dear Chris:
>>
>> I am also a first time builder. I currently have my
>> fuselage on the gear.
>>
>> On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and
>> match drill. I clecoed every other hole, match
>> drilled the vacant holes and the switched the
>> cleco's.
>>
>> After getting through the HS I decided that match
>> drilling was a waste of time. I actually misdrilled
>> some holes in small rib ears because the cleco
>> pushed the ear away and I did not know it because it
>> was down inside where I couldn't see it until after
>> I took the parts apart.
>>
>> Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts.
>> I prefer the reamer to the drill bit. I then
>> deburred the hole, and deburred the edges. Dimpled
>> where necessary, primed the parts and put them
>> together with clecos for the very first time, ready
>> to rivet.
>>
>> I found that the clecos went in much better where
>> the parts were reamed before clecoing and did not
>> push any of the ears back like I had done in the
>> past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go
>> together without a hitch so far.
>>
>> Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved
>> loads of time but it has also produced fewer double
>> holes in rib ears. It is easy to tell if the rib
>> ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting
>> because even down deep in the part you are reaching
>> your hand donw inside with the bucking bar to buck
>> anyway. On the few times that I have not caught the
>> rib ear and was ready to rivet, it was easy to push
>> the rib ear in place and work the rivet into the
>> hole even though the parts had not been mached
>> drilled.
>>
>> On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer
>> though the holes after putting the parts together,
>> where I had not match drilled, but then again back
>> when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
>>
>> Good luck on your project.
>>
>> Russ Daves
>> N710 RV (Reserved)
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
Message 40
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Rick
What I purchased were #40 and #30 Staraight Flute Reamers from Cleaveland Aircraft
Tools. You should give Bob Kaufman $13.50 and have him pick you up one each
at OSH and save shipping.
I will be at OSH but like my trip to Vegas last fall it will be in the C-182.
Next year is the year of the RV-10, maybe for you, Bob K. and me as well.
I will toast you at the OSH Ice Cream Social !!!
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Reamers
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Ok, I'll ask the question now since I wondered about this since seeing reamers
in the tool catalogs.
First, Do you buy a chucking reamer? Does it operate just like a drill bit? Is
is a number 40/30? (I ask because I read where someone was using them exclusivly
to match drill and I think is was a number 41 or something). The idea is
sound and I can relate to the ear holes getting missed although I eliminated this
by lining up the holes with an awl on those situations. FWIW EVERY one of
my holes has lined up to date and others say the same for the fuselage. What say
you Russ? (O'Reily question)
Rick S.
40185
Wings.....6000 holes too late for this tip.
Message 41
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| Subject: | NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS |
HIGH 20's, if you're lucky
TDT
________________________________
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
I hope it has to do with the long alluded to experimental version of the IO-540.
Sure would be nice to have an viable option in the 20's
Michael
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Gillespie
Subject: RE: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
I had just read the same note from Kitplanes. Anyone have any more info? I guess
that is why they call the messages teasers...
Byron
More dimpling on the fuselage #40253
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Subject: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Just saw this in an email from Kitplanes on the next issue....
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
Engine Components Incorporated (ECI) and Lycoming prepare to drop big news on the
AirVenture crowd. Remember that you read it here first!
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Ice Cream Social at OSH? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Gary Specketer" <speckter@comcast.net>
Just for clarification, I am arriving on the Thursday before OSH
officially opens. I volunteer to help set up.
So, we can have it any time.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
I like your idea Randy. I know Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools will
be
at the Cleaveland Vendor Tent. Why don't we nominate Mike to collect
the
money at the Cleaveland Tent and let, either Daniel Lloyd (Expedition
available) or Brian Sponcil (Van available) who have both offered their
vehicles, go get the Ice Cream and fixing at the nearest Walmart or
Supermarket and nominate Gary Specketer's dolphin motorhome as the
location
for the Ice Cream Social.
The only issue is the date and since Gary is not arriving until Thursday
it
would have to be either Thursday or Friday.
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> I wonder if it would work to have it at a Vendors location on Tuesday
> and Friday. That would give everyone a good place to meet. Also If we
> can get someone with some freezer space in there motor home or with a
> car that can go pick up the goods at a local store. We can all pitch
> in 3-5 $ each. Mike any interest? Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 3:32 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus"
> --> <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
>
> I fly in on Wednesday, Thursday, Fri, or Sat work for me Mike Kraus
> RV-4 flying RV-10 hanger flying
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 2:55 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools (he's a -10 builder too) would
> like to see if there's interest in an ice cream social on something
> like Monday night at OSH. (or, another date if a different one works
> better)
>
> Any input?? You can email the list, or Mike at
> mike@cleavelandtool.com
>
> I told him I'd report back if there was interest and what seemed to be
> the best date.
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: new builder - first time poster |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Chris,
There has been a lot of good feedback on your question. I will add just
one thing. I use clecos to keep track of where I have been. I start with
two to hold the parts in place then drill an adjacent hole and move each
clecos over. Then, as I drill, I fill each hole. If the hole has a
clecos then it must have been drilled. Remove them all and debur then
dimple. This is where the pneumatic cleco tool really comes in handy.
When riveting I populate all the holes that I intend to fill. Then, I
pull a cleco, fill with a rivet, skip three and replete. If there are
still clecos sticking out of the skin then I must not be done riveting.
Clecos are easier for me to spot than empty rivet holes.
My experience has been entirely with tail sections, 3 of them so far. I
imagine that my method could be adapted for other assemblies.
7 empanage
Do not archive
Mark
Chris Johnston wrote:
> Hey all
>
> My name is Chris Johnston and Im a new RV-10 builder. Been building
> for about a month, and currently working on elevators. Heres the
> dumbest question of the month. Does everybody cleco EVERY hole in a
> skin when assembling? I ended up buying 1000 additional clecos to do
> the horizontal stab, and Im wondering if thats overkill. When I look
> at pictures of other people building, it seems as though not every
> hole needs to be clecoed during pre assembly, or during match drilling
> etc. opinions are appreciated.
>
> Thanks all
>
> cj
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: David Talley <RV10@satx.rr.com>
Mid 20s (Hey, I'm in San Antonio) COMPLETE (i.e, mags, carb,
alternator...) The goal is about $25K. Remember, it's a goal not a
promise/contract.
DCT
SA, TC
On Jul 15, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> HIGH 20's, if you're lucky
>
> TDT
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Fri 7/15/2005 6:33 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
>
>
> I hope it has to do with the long alluded to experimental version
> of the IO-540. Sure would be nice to have an viable option in the
> 20's
>
> Michael
>
> Do not archive
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Gillespie
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:13 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
>
>
> I had just read the same note from Kitplanes. Anyone have any more
> info? I guess that is why they call the messages teasers...
>
>
> Byron
>
> More dimpling on the fuselage #40253
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 4:25 PM
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>0.03 HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY : rv10-
> list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
>
>
> Just saw this in an email from Kitplanes on the next issue....
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
> -10 #352 Emp Assembly
>
>
> NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
> Engine Components Incorporated (ECI) and Lycoming prepare to drop
> big news on the AirVenture crowd. Remember that you read it here
> first!
>
>
> <winmail.dat>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | RV-10s coming to Oshkosh? |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
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Message 46
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You would use the reamer in place of a normal drill bit whether or not you match
drill. Drill bits are usually accurate to about 2 thousandths of an inch.
Reamers are more accurate than that and you would need to use a reamer to get
better than 2 thousandths. For us, it's just an alternative way to get the hole
to final size and we don't need that tight of a tolerance. I believe you
usually do not end up with burrs as much as with a drill bit also, but I wouldn't
recommend skipping that step. You can check some out at:
http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/products.asp?dept31
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: no match drill
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
So, you use the reamer before clecoing? What about deburring? I'm, as
usual, confused here.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
Steve
I have had NO problems with misalignment. The only problems I have run into since
stopping match drilling has been as set out below that "On a very few occussions
I had to run the reamer though the holes after putting the parts together
where I had not match drilled, but then again back when I was match drilling
I had to do that as well."
As far as how much of the project I have done this way I would say about 50% and
still increasing the precentage. I would guess that by the time I reach the
completation of my RV-10 it will be close to 65% not match drilled.
From my experiences I can tell you that if I every build an RV again I will not
match drill anything.
Russ Daves
#40044 (Fuselage on main gear)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darton Steve" <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> Russ,
> Last year when I was riveting the half ribs on the bottom elevator
> skin I went off the edge of the back rivet plate on the last rivet of
> a rib. It put a 1/2"
> long crack in the skin. I bought a new skin and rib to replace the
> damaged parts. All of the parts the new skin mated to were now already
> drilled and dimpled.
> with this in mind I decided that it would be difficult or impossible
> to cleco a new skin to ribs and spars that were already drilled and
> dimpled. I simply drilled the rivet holes on the replacement skin to
> the correct size then deburred and dimpled. There is absolutely NO
> difference between the fit and finish of that elevator and the other
> elevator that was constructed with the conventional "match drill"
> technique. At that time I was tempted to skip the "match drill" step
> and do as you have been doing. I decided to play it safe.
>
> How much of your project have you done this way? Have you had ANY
> issues of miss-alignment/whatever due to not "match drilling"?
>
> Is any one else out there doing this?
>
> Steve 40212 Wings (all match drilled)
>
> --- Russell Daves <dav1111@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Dear Chris:
>>
>> I am also a first time builder. I currently have my fuselage on the
>> gear.
>>
>> On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and match drill. I
>> clecoed every other hole, match drilled the vacant holes and the
>> switched the cleco's.
>>
>> After getting through the HS I decided that match drilling was a
>> waste of time. I actually misdrilled some holes in small rib ears
>> because the cleco pushed the ear away and I did not know it because
>> it was down inside where I couldn't see it until after I took the
>> parts apart.
>>
>> Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts.
>> I prefer the reamer to the drill bit. I then deburred the hole, and
>> deburred the edges. Dimpled where necessary, primed the parts and
>> put them together with clecos for the very first time, ready to
>> rivet.
>>
>> I found that the clecos went in much better where the parts were
>> reamed before clecoing and did not push any of the ears back like I
>> had done in the past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go
>> together without a hitch so far.
>>
>> Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved loads of time
>> but it has also produced fewer double holes in rib ears. It is easy
>> to tell if the rib ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting
>> because even down deep in the part you are reaching your hand donw
>> inside with the bucking bar to buck anyway. On the few times that I
>> have not caught the rib ear and was ready to rivet, it was easy to
>> push the rib ear in place and work the rivet into the hole even
>> though the parts had not been mached drilled.
>>
>> On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes
>> after putting the parts together, where I had not match drilled, but
>> then again back when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
>>
>> Good luck on your project.
>>
>> Russ Daves
>> N710 RV (Reserved)
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | Electrical Tools-Wiring Supplies-Harnesses and More |
Hi Everyone,
With Matt Dralle's permission, I wanted to let everyone on the list know that Affordable
Panels has added electrical tools, electrical supplies, wiring harnesses
and more to our inventory. We have some of the lowest prices on everything
from tools, terminals, connectors, wire, electroluminescent lighting, etc.
Our wiring harnesses for all Trutrak Autopilots are available in "Standard" and
"Wing Root Disconnect" form, and we also offer harnesses for the Dynon EFIS,
Flightcom and many others at the very best prices.
Our full page catalog will be out in a couple of weeks. In the mean time, anyone
interested can download the electrical portion of our catalog here.
http://www.affordablepanels.com/electrical.htm
All electrical orders placed on-line or faxed with a total above $175.00 will ship
free via UPS GROUND.
Best Regards,
Fabian Lefler
www.affordablepanels.com
Message 48
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
For those NOT able to make it to OSH (I'm sad), here's the first pics
I've seen of the Dynon D100, Dynon's new 7" display...
<http://www.affordablepanels.com/dynon_files/EFIS-D100rev.pdf>
-Sean #40303 (too damn hot in garage this week - 115+)
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Re: no match drill |
RE: RV10-List: no match drillBefore I bought my kit I was told by someone very
close to the RV type of construction, matched holes using a a computer aided punch
machine, that yes you could probably just drill/ream all the holes first
right out of the crate and proceed with final assembly and still have acceptable
alignment. But of course he said he couldn't recommend the practice.
Chris Lucas
#40072 wings -they just won't end
I'll be at OSH Monday to Thursday
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: no match drill
You would use the reamer in place of a normal drill bit whether or not you match
drill. Drill bits are usually accurate to about 2 thousandths of an inch.
Reamers are more accurate than that and you would need to use a reamer to get
better than 2 thousandths. For us, it's just an alternative way to get the
hole to final size and we don't need that tight of a tolerance. I believe you
usually do not end up with burrs as much as with a drill bit also, but I wouldn't
recommend skipping that step. You can check some out at:
http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/products.asp?dept31
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Emp Assembly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:45 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: no match drill
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
So, you use the reamer before clecoing? What about deburring? I'm, as
usual, confused here.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 3:30 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
Steve
I have had NO problems with misalignment. The only problems I have run into
since stopping match drilling has been as set out below that "On a very few occussions
I had to run the reamer though the holes after putting the parts together
where I had not match drilled, but then again back when I was match drilling
I had to do that as well."
As far as how much of the project I have done this way I would say about 50%
and still increasing the precentage. I would guess that by the time I reach the
completation of my RV-10 it will be close to 65% not match drilled.
From my experiences I can tell you that if I every build an RV again I will not
match drill anything.
Russ Daves
#40044 (Fuselage on main gear)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darton Steve" <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 2:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> Russ,
> Last year when I was riveting the half ribs on the bottom elevator
> skin I went off the edge of the back rivet plate on the last rivet of
> a rib. It put a 1/2"
> long crack in the skin. I bought a new skin and rib to replace the
> damaged parts. All of the parts the new skin mated to were now already
> drilled and dimpled.
> with this in mind I decided that it would be difficult or impossible
> to cleco a new skin to ribs and spars that were already drilled and
> dimpled. I simply drilled the rivet holes on the replacement skin to
> the correct size then deburred and dimpled. There is absolutely NO
> difference between the fit and finish of that elevator and the other
> elevator that was constructed with the conventional "match drill"
> technique. At that time I was tempted to skip the "match drill" step
> and do as you have been doing. I decided to play it safe.
>
> How much of your project have you done this way? Have you had ANY
> issues of miss-alignment/whatever due to not "match drilling"?
>
> Is any one else out there doing this?
>
> Steve 40212 Wings (all match drilled)
>
> --- Russell Daves <dav1111@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Dear Chris:
>>
>> I am also a first time builder. I currently have my fuselage on the
>> gear.
>>
>> On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and match drill. I
>> clecoed every other hole, match drilled the vacant holes and the
>> switched the cleco's.
>>
>> After getting through the HS I decided that match drilling was a
>> waste of time. I actually misdrilled some holes in small rib ears
>> because the cleco pushed the ear away and I did not know it because
>> it was down inside where I couldn't see it until after I took the
>> parts apart.
>>
>> Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts.
>> I prefer the reamer to the drill bit. I then deburred the hole, and
>> deburred the edges. Dimpled where necessary, primed the parts and
>> put them together with clecos for the very first time, ready to
>> rivet.
>>
>> I found that the clecos went in much better where the parts were
>> reamed before clecoing and did not push any of the ears back like I
>> had done in the past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go
>> together without a hitch so far.
>>
>> Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved loads of time
>> but it has also produced fewer double holes in rib ears. It is easy
>> to tell if the rib ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting
>> because even down deep in the part you are reaching your hand donw
>> inside with the bucking bar to buck anyway. On the few times that I
>> have not caught the rib ear and was ready to rivet, it was easy to
>> push the rib ear in place and work the rivet into the hole even
>> though the parts had not been mached drilled.
>>
>> On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes
>> after putting the parts together, where I had not match drilled, but
>> then again back when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
>>
>> Good luck on your project.
>>
>> Russ Daves
>> N710 RV (Reserved)
>
>
> __________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
RV10-List Email Forum -
more:
bsp;
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 50
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| Subject: | Ice Cream Social at OSH? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Randy, a little birdie told me that you "Wanted" to host a steak dinner for
"all" ?? Ice cream is desert, right? ;) And, guys, if you send a reply to
Randy be there, in the next half hour, you are invited!!!!
See you there buddy
Mani Ravee, MD
Indianapolis, KUMP
#40339. N528AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
I like your idea Randy. I know Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools will be
at the Cleaveland Vendor Tent. Why don't we nominate Mike to collect the
money at the Cleaveland Tent and let, either Daniel Lloyd (Expedition
available) or Brian Sponcil (Van available) who have both offered their
vehicles, go get the Ice Cream and fixing at the nearest Walmart or
Supermarket and nominate Gary Specketer's dolphin motorhome as the location
for the Ice Cream Social.
The only issue is the date and since Gary is not arriving until Thursday it
would have to be either Thursday or Friday.
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
>
> I wonder if it would work to have it at a Vendors location on Tuesday
> and Friday. That would give everyone a good place to meet. Also If we
> can get someone with some freezer space in there motor home or with a
> car that can go pick up the goods at a local store. We can all pitch in
> 3-5 $ each. Mike any interest? Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 3:32 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus"
> --> <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
>
> I fly in on Wednesday, Thursday, Fri, or Sat work for me Mike Kraus
> RV-4 flying
> RV-10 hanger flying
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 2:55 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social at OSH?
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Mike from Cleaveland Aircraft Tools (he's a -10 builder too) would like
> to see if there's interest in an ice cream social on something like
> Monday night at OSH. (or, another date if a different one works better)
>
> Any input?? You can email the list, or Mike at mike@cleavelandtool.com
>
> I told him I'd report back if there was interest and what seemed to be
> the best date.
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 51
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|
Also try mcmaster-carr for reamers/ bits galore. www.mcmaster.com.
For anything really.
I like that place.
Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Daves
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Reamers
Rick
What I purchased were #40 and #30 Staraight Flute Reamers from Cleaveland Aircraft
Tools. You should give Bob Kaufman $13.50 and have him pick you up one
each at OSH and save shipping.
I will be at OSH but like my trip to Vegas last fall it will be in the C-182.
Next year is the year of the RV-10, maybe for you, Bob K. and me as well.
I will toast you at the OSH Ice Cream Social !!!
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Reamers
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Ok, I'll ask the question now since I wondered about this since seeing reamers
in the tool catalogs.
First, Do you buy a chucking reamer? Does it operate just like a drill bit?
Is is a number 40/30? (I ask because I read where someone was using them exclusivly
to match drill and I think is was a number 41 or something). The idea is
sound and I can relate to the ear holes getting missed although I eliminated
this by lining up the holes with an awl on those situations. FWIW EVERY one of
my holes has lined up to date and others say the same for the fuselage. What
say you Russ? (O'Reily question)
Rick S.
40185
Wings.....6000 holes too late for this tip.
Features Subscriptions
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | Ice Cream Social Date and Times |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
I have heard that folks come to OSH at the very bening of the show than
later, so Tuesday would be good. Who ever came up with an ice cream idea?
Why not Randy's Steak offer? He He!
We can do a dinner too. We will plan - boots on the ground.
Mani Ravee, MD
Indianapolis, KUMP
#40339. N528AR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Ice Cream Social Date and Times
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mike has the times down for the Ice Cream Social. Sorry to anyone that
this leaves out....I'm sure you understand that it's just impossible to
get everyone unless you have one every day.
Tuesday and Friday at 6:00pm at the Cleaveland Aircraft Tools.
Outdoor exhibit #125 between buildings A & C toward the fly
market. Randy's RV-10 will be a hundred feet up the hill from
the booth!
(I'll try to put this on a map if I can come up with one)
Tim
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Re: no match drill |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
Ream, deburr, dimple, cleco, rivet.
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: no match drill
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> So, you use the reamer before clecoing? What about deburring? I'm, as
> usual, confused here.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 3:30 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
>
> Steve
>
> I have had NO problems with misalignment. The only problems I have run
> into
> since stopping match drilling has been as set out below that "On a very
> few
> occussions I had to run the reamer though the holes after putting the
> parts
> together where I had not match drilled, but then again back when I was
> match
> drilling I had to do that as well."
>
> As far as how much of the project I have done this way I would say about
> 50%
> and still increasing the precentage. I would guess that by the time I
> reach
> the completation of my RV-10 it will be close to 65% not match drilled.
>
> From my experiences I can tell you that if I every build an RV again I
> will
> not match drill anything.
>
> Russ Daves
> #40044 (Fuselage on main gear)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Darton Steve" <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 2:40 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Russ,
>> Last year when I was riveting the half ribs on the
>> bottom elevator skin I went off the edge of the back
>> rivet plate on the last rivet of a rib. It put a 1/2"
>> long crack in the skin. I bought a new skin and rib to
>> replace the damaged parts. All of the parts the new
>> skin mated to were now already drilled and dimpled.
>> with this in mind I decided that it would be difficult
>> or impossible to cleco a new skin to ribs and spars
>> that were already drilled and dimpled. I simply
>> drilled the rivet holes on the replacement skin to the
>> correct size then deburred and dimpled. There is
>> absolutely NO difference between the fit and finish of
>> that elevator and the other elevator that was
>> constructed with the conventional "match drill"
>> technique. At that time I was tempted to skip the
>> "match drill" step and do as you have been doing. I
>> decided to play it safe.
>>
>> How much of your project have you done this way? Have
>> you had ANY issues of miss-alignment/whatever due to
>> not "match drilling"?
>>
>> Is any one else out there doing this?
>>
>> Steve 40212 Wings (all match drilled)
>>
>> --- Russell Daves <dav1111@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Chris:
>>>
>>> I am also a first time builder. I currently have my
>>> fuselage on the gear.
>>>
>>> On the Emp I followed the instructions to cleco and
>>> match drill. I clecoed every other hole, match
>>> drilled the vacant holes and the switched the
>>> cleco's.
>>>
>>> After getting through the HS I decided that match
>>> drilling was a waste of time. I actually misdrilled
>>> some holes in small rib ears because the cleco
>>> pushed the ear away and I did not know it because it
>>> was down inside where I couldn't see it until after
>>> I took the parts apart.
>>>
>>> Since the HS I have reamed each hole on the parts.
>>> I prefer the reamer to the drill bit. I then
>>> deburred the hole, and deburred the edges. Dimpled
>>> where necessary, primed the parts and put them
>>> together with clecos for the very first time, ready
>>> to rivet.
>>>
>>> I found that the clecos went in much better where
>>> the parts were reamed before clecoing and did not
>>> push any of the ears back like I had done in the
>>> past. The CAD parts machine has made the parts go
>>> together without a hitch so far.
>>>
>>> Not only has the elimination of match drilling saved
>>> loads of time but it has also produced fewer double
>>> holes in rib ears. It is easy to tell if the rib
>>> ear has been caught by the cleco during riveting
>>> because even down deep in the part you are reaching
>>> your hand donw inside with the bucking bar to buck
>>> anyway. On the few times that I have not caught the
>>> rib ear and was ready to rivet, it was easy to push
>>> the rib ear in place and work the rivet into the
>>> hole even though the parts had not been mached
>>> drilled.
>>>
>>> On a very few occussions I had to run the reamer
>>> though the holes after putting the parts together,
>>> where I had not match drilled, but then again back
>>> when I was match drilling I had to do that as well.
>>>
>>> Good luck on your project.
>>>
>>> Russ Daves
>>> N710 RV (Reserved)
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: no match drill |
"rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
<001001c589b0$186ccc80$59d96d44@D43G8741>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Read plans, measure, cut, smooth edges, measure..re-read plans (both sets),
re-measure, mark, punch, drill....OH sorry.... I was thinking of the first
10 or 12 steps of the HRII program before the first debar. 8*) KABONG Do
Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: no match drill
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
>
> Ream, deburr, dimple, cleco, rivet.
>
> Russ Daves
Message 55
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spamd1.ruraltel.net
* -4.0 RCVD_FROM_NEXTECH_5 Message came from 204.96.144-152.x network
* 0.0 UNPARSEABLE_RELAY Informational: message has unparseable relay
* lines
* 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message
* -0.8 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
* 0.0 AWL AWL: From: address is in the auto white-list
I've decided to go and buy a bandsaw tomorrow. For you RV-10 guys, will a 9 or
10 inch bandsaw suffice or are there many times you wish you had a 12 inch.
I'll probably buy from sears or home depot. Any specific specs I need to look
for???
Bill Britton
RV-10 #40137
Ready to start Elevators
Message 56
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I got my Ryobi 9" at home depot for $99 and it has worked well for me so
far. Make sure you get a metal cutting blade with it. I'm pretty sure anything
in the 18 teeth per inch range should work fine.
Andrew Rayhill
Wings 40078
Phoenix
Message 57
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d="scan'208,217"; a="59292461:sNHT31748420"
A 9" is fine. I got a $99 delta table top and am happy with it. A fellow
RV builder got one from Sears with a deeper throat, which he liked. Point
is, unless you plan on woodworking and re-sawing old oak planks, get the
Delta or the Craftsman and move on. Lots of teeth, though. Cuts easier and
smoother.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami
Britton
Subject: RV10-List: bandsaw
I've decided to go and buy a bandsaw tomorrow. For you RV-10 guys, will a 9
or 10 inch bandsaw suffice or are there many times you wish you had a 12
inch. I'll probably buy from sears or home depot. Any specific specs I
need to look for???
Bill Britton
RV-10 #40137
Ready to start Elevators
Message 58
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Make sure you get one that is designed for cutting metal OR one that you can get
a metal (aluminum) blade. Bought a Ryoble (spelling ??) 9" but have to order
blades from on-line source. Sears didn't have metal blades for their our bandsaw
(Victorville Store) either. Bought two blades & they work great. KABONG 8*)
Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill and Tami Britton
To: RV10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 8:35 PM
Subject: RV10-List: bandsaw
I've decided to go and buy a bandsaw tomorrow. For you RV-10 guys, will a 9
or 10 inch bandsaw suffice or are there many times you wish you had a 12 inch.
I'll probably buy from sears or home depot. Any specific specs I need to look
for???
Bill Britton
RV-10 #40137
Ready to start Elevators
Message 59
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|
| Subject: | RV-10s coming to Oshkosh? |
Jeff,
That's a great thing! We tried to find out if this was going to happen and
couldn't find almost any information. We have a -10 (N256H) that will be
parking there. We were told to go to the Home Built Parking lot and ask to
be put with the other RV's. To get to your -10 rows do we need to do
anything special? Thanks for getting this info out.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Point
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10s coming to Oshkosh?
I originally asked this in the VAF RV-10 forum but I figured I'd try here
too:
I need some help and this seems like the place to get it. I am in charge of
RV parking at Oshkosh, and we are planning on having a special reserved area
for RV-10s. I need to get an estimate of the number of 10s which will be at
Oshkosh. Anybody with a flying 10 who plans to be at Oshkosh, or anyone who
is aware of one who is not on this list, please respond and let me know. If
you are planning on parking anwhere other than the RV area (ie. homebuilt
campgrounds, a vendor's tent, etc,) please mention that also.
Current plans are to have two rows reserved for 10s in the area just west of
Van's tent, but this is subject to change.
Thanks
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
Message 60
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s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=E++ctvp9VGVOkB7nh/QpKaB7dADWSSOT98h483ENXT1cqL08XemUS4x7CdXS2uwJk81YIP2zZwifLCBh0ZhhpLVydqeB7eS8vzkDeFW2LHFEuJEwpKp/Q8uGleuWtVJzQSdzNb1aE0TSWTZlu72J8EO8rSI//4jO95l75ZrxlOc=
;
| Subject: | Re: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
I heard about the same from ECi at Arlington (25k to
27k). Perhaps in 2006?
I emailed them months ago and they replied quickly
that they are making steady progress and to expect
some news ~ Oshkosh.
Eric
40150
--- David Talley <RV10@satx.rr.com> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: David Talley
> <RV10@satx.rr.com>
>
> Mid 20s (Hey, I'm in San Antonio) COMPLETE (i.e,
> mags, carb,
> alternator...) The goal is about $25K. Remember,
> it's a goal not a
> promise/contract.
>
> DCT
> SA, TC
> On Jul 15, 2005, at 5:47 PM, Tim Dawson-Townsend
> wrote:
>
> > HIGH 20's, if you're lucky
> >
> > TDT
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on
> behalf of RV Builder
> > (Michael Sausen)
> > Sent: Fri 7/15/2005 6:33 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR
> BUILDERS
> >
> >
> > I hope it has to do with the long alluded to
> experimental version
> > of the IO-540. Sure would be nice to have an
> viable option in the
> > 20's
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > ________________________________
> >
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Gillespie
> > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 5:13 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR
> BUILDERS
> >
> >
> >
> > I had just read the same note from Kitplanes.
> Anyone have any more
> > info? I guess that is why they call the messages
> teasers...
> >
> >
> >
> > Byron
> >
> > More dimpling on the fuselage #40253
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
> (Michael Sausen)
> > Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 4:25 PM
> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>0.03
> HTML_TEXT_AFTER_HTML BODY : rv10-
> > list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR
> BUILDERS
> >
> >
> >
> > Just saw this in an email from Kitplanes on the
> next issue....
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael Sausen
> >
> > -10 #352 Emp Assembly
> >
> >
> >
> > NEW ENGINE OPTIONS FOR BUILDERS
> > Engine Components Incorporated (ECI) and Lycoming
> prepare to drop
> > big news on the AirVenture crowd. Remember that
> you read it here
> > first!
> >
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> > <winmail.dat>
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