---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/24/05: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:08 AM - airframe protection () 2. 05:21 AM - Re: airframe protection (James Hein) 3. 05:21 AM - Re: airframe protection (James Hein) 4. 06:06 AM - Re: airframe protection (Tim Olson) 5. 07:41 AM - Re: Re: airframe protection () 6. 08:04 AM - Re: Trim Cable Brackets (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 7. 08:21 AM - Re: airframe protection (Tim Olson) 8. 12:52 PM - Re: Trim Cable Brackets (William Curtis) 9. 02:24 PM - Re: airframe protection (Chris , Susie McGough) 10. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Trim Cable Brackets (Tim Olson) 11. 03:50 PM - Re: Re: Trim Cable Brackets (John Erickson) 12. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: Trim Cable Brackets (Deems Davis) 13. 06:57 PM - Re: Re: Trim Cable Brackets (Eric Panning) 14. 07:48 PM - Re: Re: Trim Cable Brackets (Mike Kraus) 15. 07:54 PM - Vic Syracuse's RV-10 Flies! (Tim Olson) 16. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: Trim Cable Brackets (Mr Jack Sparling) 17. 10:20 PM - Re: Re: Trim Cable Brackets (Jesse Saint) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:08 AM PST US From: Subject: RV10-List: airframe protection --> RV10-List message posted by: Good morning ,Thanks for the answers and ideas about performance(yes I'm the guy ask for real speed).-4 days before I will give my check to Vans,and one question was not very comforting I recive from sales dptm. at van's,was what can of corrosion protection was made in the QB kits before assy.they say was acid etched and a clear primer was applied before assy,it this correct.?,in my ex french plane ,I found the complete airframe was zinc cromate ,when rebuilding I found the inside was like made yesterday.sorry for those stupid questions . hugo ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:10 AM PST US d="scan'208"; a="1163222712:sNHT15710798" From: James Hein Subject: Re: RV10-List: airframe protection --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein Hugo, According to the builder's manual, page 5-1, the primer used on the QB is "Sherwin Williams P60 G2" Myself, I'm using Alumiprep, Alodine, then a light coat of PPG DP50LF Epoxy Primer. The Alodine is superior to zinc chromate primers, but doesn't have great scratch protection - That's why I'm using the epoxy primer as well. -Jim 40384, still waiting for the correct nutplates..... make sure your kit has the K1100-06 .. it should NOT be identical to the parts labeled K1000-06. gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: >--> RV10-List message posted by: > >Good morning ,Thanks for the answers and ideas about performance(yes I'm the guy ask for real speed).-4 days before I will give my check to Vans,and one question was not very comforting I recive from sales dptm. at van's,was what can of corrosion protection was made in the QB kits before assy.they say was acid etched and a clear primer was applied before assy,it this correct.?,in my ex french plane ,I found the complete airframe was zinc cromate ,when rebuilding I found the inside was like made yesterday.sorry for those stupid questions . >hugo > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:32 AM PST US d="scan'208"; a="1163222712:sNHT15710798" From: James Hein Subject: Re: RV10-List: airframe protection --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein Hugo, According to the builder's manual, page 5-1, the primer used on the QB is "Sherwin Williams P60 G2" Myself, I'm using Alumiprep, Alodine, then a light coat of PPG DP50LF Epoxy Primer. The Alodine is superior to zinc chromate primers, but doesn't have great scratch protection - That's why I'm using the epoxy primer as well. -Jim 40384, still waiting for the correct nutplates..... make sure your kit has the K1100-06 .. it should NOT be identical to the parts labeled K1000-06. gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: >--> RV10-List message posted by: > >Good morning ,Thanks for the answers and ideas about performance(yes I'm the guy ask for real speed).-4 days before I will give my check to Vans,and one question was not very comforting I recive from sales dptm. at van's,was what can of corrosion protection was made in the QB kits before assy.they say was acid etched and a clear primer was applied before assy,it this correct.?,in my ex french plane ,I found the complete airframe was zinc cromate ,when rebuilding I found the inside was like made yesterday.sorry for those stupid questions . >hugo > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:41 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: airframe protection --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson If you don't like the primer they apply for the QB parts, you will be able to re-prime with your choice. I found that my QB fuse was primed with their wash primer, but not very much primer was applied, and they only primed the interior AFTER the cover panels and seat bottom panels were installed, so there was NO primer underneath any of the surfaces that were hidden. But, as part of the process, you pull all of those access panels off, and are free to prime in all areas. My kit is now fully primed with 2-part Akzo Epoxy primer. Some say it's unnecessary, and they may be right, but primer is 100% personal choice and opinion, so there never will be any agreement on that. Just wanted you to know that while their corrosion protection may not meet your standards, you can always do it your way. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > Good morning ,Thanks for the answers and ideas about performance(yes > I'm the guy ask for real speed).-4 days before I will give my check > to Vans,and one question was not very comforting I recive from sales > dptm. at van's,was what can of corrosion protection was made in the > QB kits before assy.they say was acid etched and a clear primer was > applied before assy,it this correct.?,in my ex french plane ,I found > the complete airframe was zinc cromate ,when rebuilding I found the > inside was like made yesterday.sorry for those stupid questions . > hugo > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:41:34 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: airframe protection --> RV10-List message posted by: thanks for the answer,they say to me ,the parts was primed before assy., inn that case I thinks was left for me was the unassy. parts and off course the tail cone w/ empennage,can you apply more epoxy over there protection? Hugo > > From: Tim Olson > Date: 2005/07/24 Sun AM 09:05:28 EDT > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: airframe protection > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > If you don't like the primer they apply for the QB parts, you will be > able to re-prime with your choice. I found that my QB fuse was primed > with their wash primer, but not very much primer was applied, and they > only primed the interior AFTER the cover panels and seat bottom panels > were installed, so there was NO primer underneath any of the surfaces > that were hidden. But, as part of the process, you pull all of those > access panels off, and are free to prime in all areas. My kit is > now fully primed with 2-part Akzo Epoxy primer. Some say it's > unnecessary, and they may be right, but primer is 100% personal > choice and opinion, so there never will be any agreement on that. > Just wanted you to know that while their corrosion protection may > not meet your standards, you can always do it your way. > > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 > Current project: Fuselage > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: > > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > > > Good morning ,Thanks for the answers and ideas about performance(yes > > I'm the guy ask for real speed).-4 days before I will give my check > > to Vans,and one question was not very comforting I recive from sales > > dptm. at van's,was what can of corrosion protection was made in the > > QB kits before assy.they say was acid etched and a clear primer was > > applied before assy,it this correct.?,in my ex french plane ,I found > > the complete airframe was zinc cromate ,when rebuilding I found the > > inside was like made yesterday.sorry for those stupid questions . > > hugo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:01 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Trim Cable Brackets I went though this last week. I very thoughtfully scoffed at the LP4-3 rivets and went for an-4 solid rivets for look and being painted. I got one on and really had to work at it, not something I want to take apart on the next annual. The other side broke the nut off so I had to drill the rivets out weld the nut back on and I used the pop rivets, it worked much better, but I still have to take the blasted thing apart next annual and will most likely have to drill the rivets out. My next RV-10 will have # 6 screws and nut plates!!!!!!!!! Noel Going to OSH in my super cub at 90KTS :>) See you there just in time for the ICE-CREAM _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein Subject: RV10-List: Trim Cable Brackets Is there any reason as to why they specift blind rivets on page 9-15, step 7 ?? It would seem like a good place for normal rivets, since you can get to both sides very easily. -Jim 40384, Waiting on receiving K1100-06 nutplates (My kit came with K1000-06 in the bag for K1100-06, but Van's is sending replacements ) (Picture attached) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:31 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: airframe protection --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I would not believe them that it was primed before assembly. In my case it was primed after assembly. If you want primer, I would plan on priming everything once you get it...assembled, and non-assembled parts. Yes, you can put epoxy over the primer that they applied...it sticks just fine. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > thanks for the answer,they say to me ,the parts was primed before > assy., inn that case I thinks was left for me was the unassy. parts > and off course the tail cone w/ empennage,can you apply more epoxy > over there protection? Hugo > >> From: Tim Olson Date: 2005/07/24 Sun AM 09:05:28 >> EDT To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: airframe >> protection >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson >> >> If you don't like the primer they apply for the QB parts, you will >> be able to re-prime with your choice. I found that my QB fuse was >> primed with their wash primer, but not very much primer was >> applied, and they only primed the interior AFTER the cover panels >> and seat bottom panels were installed, so there was NO primer >> underneath any of the surfaces that were hidden. But, as part of >> the process, you pull all of those access panels off, and are free >> to prime in all areas. My kit is now fully primed with 2-part Akzo >> Epoxy primer. Some say it's unnecessary, and they may be right, >> but primer is 100% personal choice and opinion, so there never will >> be any agreement on that. Just wanted you to know that while their >> corrosion protection may not meet your standards, you can always do >> it your way. >> >> >> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: >> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: >>> >>> Good morning ,Thanks for the answers and ideas about >>> performance(yes I'm the guy ask for real speed).-4 days before I >>> will give my check to Vans,and one question was not very >>> comforting I recive from sales dptm. at van's,was what can of >>> corrosion protection was made in the QB kits before assy.they say >>> was acid etched and a clear primer was applied before assy,it >>> this correct.?,in my ex french plane ,I found the complete >>> airframe was zinc cromate ,when rebuilding I found the inside was >>> like made yesterday.sorry for those stupid questions . hugo ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:42 PM PST US Received-SPF: none (out8.mx.klmz.mi.voyager.net: 207.89.248.213 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of core.com) client-ip=207.89.248.213; envelope-from=wcurtis@core.com; helo=localhost; From: William Curtis Subject: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets >The other side broke the nut off so I had to drill the rivets >out weld the nut back on and I used the pop rivets, it worked >much better, but I still have to take the blasted thing apart >next annual and will most likely have to drill the rivets out. If there is one thing in the tailcone that worries me, its this welded nut. I have a mental picture of the weld breaking off at the most in-opportune time causing my elevator trip to be out of control. Im going to take some measurements and see if I can get one of my machinist friends to fabricate a better part out of a solid block of aluminum. William Curtis #40237 - wings http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:20 PM PST US From: "Chris , Susie McGough" Subject: Re: RV10-List: airframe protection --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough" Yes thats correct will probably only last a 100 years!! Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV10-List: airframe protection > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > Good morning ,Thanks for the answers and ideas about performance(yes I'm > the guy ask for real speed).-4 days before I will give my check to > Vans,and one question was not very comforting I recive from sales dptm. at > van's,was what can of corrosion protection was made in the QB kits before > assy.they say was acid etched and a clear primer was applied before > assy,it this correct.?,in my ex french plane ,I found the complete > airframe was zinc cromate ,when rebuilding I found the inside was like > made yesterday.sorry for those stupid questions . > hugo > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:20 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Then, if it turns out great, have him turn out a couple dozen and sell them to some other RV-10 guys. ;) Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE William Curtis wrote: > >The other side broke the nut off so I had to drill the rivets > >out weld the nut back on and I used the pop rivets, it worked > >much better, but I still have to take the blasted thing apart > >next annual and will most likely have to drill the rivets out. > > If there is one thing in the tailcone that worries me, its this welded > nut. I have a mental picture of the weld breaking off at the most > in-opportune time causing my elevator trip to be out of control. Im > going to take some measurements and see if I can get one of my machinist > friends to fabricate a better part out of a solid block of aluminum. > > William Curtis > #40237 - wings > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:59 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets From: "John Erickson" --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Erickson" Couple dozen? Might be more demand than that!! John #40208 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Then, if it turns out great, have him turn out a couple dozen and sell them to some other RV-10 guys. ;) Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage DO NOT ARCHIVE William Curtis wrote: > >The other side broke the nut off so I had to drill the rivets >out > weld the nut back on and I used the pop rivets, it worked >much > better, but I still have to take the blasted thing apart >next annual > and will most likely have to drill the rivets out. > > If there is one thing in the tailcone that worries me, it's this > welded nut. I have a mental picture of the weld breaking off at the > most in-opportune time causing my elevator trip to be out of control. > I'm going to take some measurements and see if I can get one of my > machinist friends to fabricate a better part out of a solid block of aluminum. > > William Curtis > #40237 - wings > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:19 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis Put me on that list, I'm right at the point where all of this discussion is timely, just finishing up the elevators. btw. Thanks to all who offered alternatives to my "pending builder interuptus". I got my order confirmation letter from Van saying my wing kit should ship early Sept. so it appears that my fears of not having anything to work on were exaggerated. The 14-15 week lead times on the web site and what I was told over the phone are not correct. based on my order being faxed early July, it looks like 8-9 weeks lead time for the wing kit (SB). (Don't know if OSH will change all of that, looking forward to seeing a lot of you there next Fri.) Deems Davis #406 Tim Olson wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Then, if it turns out great, have him turn out a couple dozen > and sell them to some other RV-10 guys. ;) > Tim > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 > Current project: Fuselage > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > William Curtis wrote: > >> >The other side broke the nut off so I had to drill the rivets >> >out weld the nut back on and I used the pop rivets, it worked >> >much better, but I still have to take the blasted thing apart >> >next annual and will most likely have to drill the rivets out. >> >> If there is one thing in the tailcone that worries me, its this >> welded nut. I have a mental picture of the weld breaking off at the >> most in-opportune time causing my elevator trip to be out of control. >> Im going to take some measurements and see if I can get one of my >> machinist friends to fabricate a better part out of a solid block of >> aluminum. >> >> William Curtis >> #40237 - wings >> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:39 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=slZQI57SO38VobEgAum1Kt2+pdTDAJX9okyMCwV4UDfTjfamPsgp5vUiWcU6s4Ddwk407fJ8XKbNO5ZeO3VzVQBB12Kgz4mcM48DqIOiC4c8lkK+/fN1ZT54CaHn5lRC9pVROn3s3rz+QxtZJZMqZ6+eTQVvu1WKyNJ6uBBKIRA= ; From: Eric Panning Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning I had one of the nuts break off and I picked up two replacements from Van's. The new ones are double welded (both sides of the nut edge) and seem much stronger. The original ones were welded only on one edge of the nut in a thin line. I have not replaced them yet but will be investigating attaching via nut plates instead of rivets. Van's thought this was ok when I talked to them - provided there is enough room (attach plate area is small) I recall they also mentioned that you can rotate it in place with the nut riveted to the access panel but only by a bend in the control cable to the limits. If you build another solution, I suggest leaving space for nut plates to attach - This would make it much easier to adjust during rigging and also for future tweaking or inspection. Eric ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:34 PM PST US From: "Mike Kraus" Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" Take a magnet to either the nut or the plate. They are both supposed to be stainless, if the magnet attaches to one of the pieces then it was not stainless.... I had 4 of these in 2 kits.... 1 was all stainless and you could not break it, 3 had a ferrous steel plate and you could bend it and it would break shortly thereafter... I called Van's, they seemed surprised to hear this, but had no problem sending me free replacements.... I think you should all check yours out. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning --> I had one of the nuts break off and I picked up two replacements from Van's. The new ones are double welded (both sides of the nut edge) and seem much stronger. The original ones were welded only on one edge of the nut in a thin line. I have not replaced them yet but will be investigating attaching via nut plates instead of rivets. Van's thought this was ok when I talked to them - provided there is enough room (attach plate area is small) I recall they also mentioned that you can rotate it in place with the nut riveted to the access panel but only by a bend in the control cable to the limits. If you build another solution, I suggest leaving space for nut plates to attach - This would make it much easier to adjust during rigging and also for future tweaking or inspection. Eric ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:43 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Vic Syracuse's RV-10 Flies! --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson See here for photos! http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/VicsRV10/plane/index.html Vic just CC'd me on the following note....great news! Also, finally an MT prop flies an RV-10! Van & Team---- You did it again! What a great airplane. N64VC took to the air today, 7/24/2005, for the first time. Enclosed is the requisite RV-grin photo after landing, and I assure you the grin needed no prompting! We started the airplane in May of 2004, SN# 40229, and 14 1/2 months, 1700 manhours and 700 wife hours later (yes, she was right there) we are beginning to have fun again. We used a QB kit, and wired, painted, and upholstered it ourselves. The engine is an I0-540-D4A5 built by Performance Engines, with AirFlow Performance Injection, Lightspeed Ignition on top, magneto on bottom, balanced, ported, and flow balanced, with an MT-3 Blade prop. The panel is dual screen Chelton, Garmin 430, Sl-30, PS Engineering PM7000CD, TruTrack Sorcerer autopilot. With only 5 hours on it this weekend ,and limited to a traffic pattern distance from the airport during those 5 hours, I've not been able to get any good performance numbers yet. However, at 2650' DA, climb rates have been about 1500 fpm. We've been asking Van for a 4 place since 1985, and he sure has delivered a winner! Thanks again!!! Vic & Carol Syracuse 3-time repeat offenders :) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:00 PM PST US s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=FR8reG89wjff+WoORSPyUxN24zF73xhTryEVKZdqQcZrtZd3jCPibgQDsTBcw6syDIPsylUUCGgGVwxtWFlPJGS8/2Txk1RXrqsXRFPLPO9ggQzKmJHW+IPSXCOO7VgK414UFZcNBbYYxBXfyD7dtYYZNgmY0+CsI/mHhTPIA/I= ; From: Mr Jack Sparling Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: Mr Jack Sparling Why not bend a piece of stainless to the proper angle and make a bracket similar to the one on the other end? The hole should not be difficult, and the cable nuts could be used for adjustment as well as panel removal when necessary. Integrity would certainly be improved. Just a thought Jack --- Eric Panning wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning > > > > I had one of the nuts break off and I picked up two > replacements from Van's. The new ones are double > welded (both sides of the nut edge) and seem much > stronger. The original ones were welded only on one > edge of the nut in a thin line. > > I have not replaced them yet but will be > investigating > attaching via nut plates instead of rivets. Van's > thought this was ok when I talked to them - provided > there is enough room (attach plate area is small) > > I recall they also mentioned that you can rotate it > in > place with the nut riveted to the access panel but > only by a bend in the control cable to the limits. > > If you build another solution, I suggest leaving > space > for nut plates to attach - This would make it much > easier to adjust during rigging and also for future > tweaking or inspection. > > Eric > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:55 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" This is a good point. It is a pain in the neck getting that thing adjusted by having to bend the cable far enough to get the plate to not scratch the elevator. Nut plates would be a great way to go I think, if they would fit. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Panning Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Trim Cable Brackets --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning I had one of the nuts break off and I picked up two replacements from Van's. The new ones are double welded (both sides of the nut edge) and seem much stronger. The original ones were welded only on one edge of the nut in a thin line. I have not replaced them yet but will be investigating attaching via nut plates instead of rivets. Van's thought this was ok when I talked to them - provided there is enough room (attach plate area is small) I recall they also mentioned that you can rotate it in place with the nut riveted to the access panel but only by a bend in the control cable to the limits. If you build another solution, I suggest leaving space for nut plates to attach - This would make it much easier to adjust during rigging and also for future tweaking or inspection. Eric