Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (dralle@matronics.com)
2. 12:45 AM - Rudder trailing edge (John Jessen)
3. 01:04 AM - Re: Rudder trailing edge (John Jessen)
4. 04:10 AM - Re: Rudder trailing edge (Tim Olson)
5. 06:05 AM - Re: Just back from Osh. (Chuck Jensen)
6. 06:39 AM - Re: Just back from Osh. (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
7. 07:26 AM - New Builder (Bruce Case)
8. 07:44 AM - OSH 2005 Photos (Tim Olson)
9. 07:44 AM - Re: New Builder (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
10. 07:48 AM - Re: OSH 2005 Photos (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
11. 07:49 AM - Re: New Builder (Tim Olson)
12. 08:21 AM - Re: OSH 2005 Photos (Tim Olson)
13. 08:24 AM - Re: OSH 2005 Photos (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
14. 08:56 AM - Re: RV Wiki [Was: OSH 2005 Photos] (Sean Stephens)
15. 09:34 AM - Re: OSH 2005 Photos (Jim Combs)
16. 09:58 AM - Re: OSH 2005 Photos (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
17. 10:09 AM - Re: Re: RV Wiki [Was: OSH 2005 Photos] (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
18. 01:30 PM - Rudder Trailing Edge (John Jessen)
19. 01:55 PM - Re: Rudder Trailing Edge (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
20. 02:01 PM - Color after Alodine (Larry Rosen)
21. 02:22 PM - Re: Color after Alodine (linn walters)
22. 02:27 PM - Re: Color after Alodine (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
23. 02:29 PM - Re: Color after Alodine (Stein Bruch)
24. 02:36 PM - Re: Rudder Trailing Edge (John W. Cox)
25. 02:47 PM - Re: Color after Alodine (Larry Rosen)
26. 02:52 PM - Re: Color after Alodine (James Hein)
27. 04:17 PM - Windshield Defroster (Scott Schmidt)
28. 04:44 PM - Re: Rudder Trailing Edge (McGANN, Ron)
29. 05:21 PM - Aero trim (Gary Specketer)
30. 05:57 PM - Re: Rudder Trailing Edge (Jim Combs)
31. 06:50 PM - For Tim Olsen (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
32. 07:03 PM - Re: Windshield Defroster (Tim Lewis)
33. 07:43 PM - Re: Aero trim (Tim Olson)
34. 07:47 PM - Re: For Tim Olson (Tim Olson)
35. 07:59 PM - Re: Windshield Defroster (Chris)
36. 08:40 PM - horizontal & vertical fairing (brian bollaert)
37. 08:58 PM - Re: Rudder Trailing Edge (Rick)
38. 09:04 PM - Re: Color after Alodine (Rick)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] |
DNA: do not archive
--> RV10-List message posted by: dralle@matronics.com
Dear Lister,
Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
RV10-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
RV10-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
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- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
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- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
Message 2
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d="scan'208"; a="65613949:sNHT20073724"
| Subject: | Rudder trailing edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
I have been sweating the "beware causing the rudder trailing edge to hook,"
and sure enough I think I've got a hook. I randomized setting the rivets, I
looked at the leading edge repeatedly (but I did this by standing the rudder
upright and taking steps back to eyeball it; I also used a straightedge
along the edge), but when I finally sighted down the edge after setting all
the rivets on one side, there was a slight "hook" at the top.
I still have to set the rivets from the other side with the mushroom set.
Before I do this, anyone have any suggestions as to how to work the slight
bend out? I don't even know if what I see as a "hook" is worth mentioning,
but I think it is.
John Jessen
#40328 Rudder
Message 3
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d="scan'208"; a="65615970:sNHT29591220"
| Subject: | Rudder trailing edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
I said "leading" edge below, but meant "trailing" edge.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder trailing edge
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
I have been sweating the "beware causing the rudder trailing edge to hook,"
and sure enough I think I've got a hook. I randomized setting the rivets, I
looked at the leading edge repeatedly (but I did this by standing the rudder
upright and taking steps back to eyeball it; I also used a straightedge
along the edge), but when I finally sighted down the edge after setting all
the rivets on one side, there was a slight "hook" at the top.
I still have to set the rivets from the other side with the mushroom set.
Before I do this, anyone have any suggestions as to how to work the slight
bend out? I don't even know if what I see as a "hook" is worth mentioning,
but I think it is.
John Jessen
#40328 Rudder
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder trailing edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
If it's slight, perhaps it will come out when you set the rivets on
the other side. I'm not sure what else to tell you though. Who knows,
maybe it's hooked in a way that will cut down on the amount of rudder
trim you need.
Good luck,
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
John Jessen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> I have been sweating the "beware causing the rudder trailing edge to hook,"
> and sure enough I think I've got a hook. I randomized setting the rivets, I
> looked at the leading edge repeatedly (but I did this by standing the rudder
> upright and taking steps back to eyeball it; I also used a straightedge
> along the edge), but when I finally sighted down the edge after setting all
> the rivets on one side, there was a slight "hook" at the top.
>
> I still have to set the rivets from the other side with the mushroom set.
> Before I do this, anyone have any suggestions as to how to work the slight
> bend out? I don't even know if what I see as a "hook" is worth mentioning,
> but I think it is.
>
> John Jessen
> #40328 Rudder
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Just back from Osh. |
IF Innodyn can make those numbers, a bunch of thermodynamic engineers are going
to have to rework their numbers. And, Williams and Pratt & Whitney are certainly
going to be embarrassed that all their slack-jawed engineers and massive
research and development facilities couldn't do what Innodyn did in a Quonset
hut. Of course, you noticed that was a big IF.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
You can also probably forget what their publishing until they put out some real
life numbers - they've been flying in at least 1 factory owned 2 place RV for
over a year and have yet to publish real HP, fuel burn & speed info. Not saying
that their claims are false, just that proof hasn't been published yet.
Bob #40105
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
Hmm, if Innodyn is really pulling off 7 gph/100hp it's not looking so bad anymore
with 18.2 gph at 260hp. Of course you can forget insurance with an experimental
turbine.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Nope, speed cost money. To run any engine it will use about .1 gal per HP. I have
a 260 hp engine and it will use 26 gph at full power. At 75% power 195 hp
to be exact you will use 19.5 gph roughly. At 55% power you will use about 14.5
per hour. That is the facts.
Now you don't get economy from flying at 8000 ft. at 75% power. You need to get
high 13,500 14,500 or higher or pull back to 55% or even 45% power. Your economy
will be much better like 11.5 or 10.5 gph. I was at 13,500 going to Oshkosh
and was traveling just fine with 3 RV4's at 10.5 ghp. Calculate into the cost
of the plane an OXY system of some kind and get some altitude. For local trips
I like to pull back the power to 19 in. or so and cruse along at 12.5 gph
and look out the window. I am sill traveling at 145 knots or so.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Comcast
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Comcast" <kenbpeck@comcast.net>
Yeah, PLEASE tell us that's a typo !!
----- Original Message -----
From: <coop85@bellsouth.net>o
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <coop85@bellsouth.net>
>
> Randy,
> Thanks for the update, I look forward to a 2900nm flight in my machine
> one day. One question, was the fuel burn at 8,000' really 19.2?!!!!! The
> other numbers (12.5 & 10.5) make sense but I'm hoping the other was a
> typo.
>
> Good luck with the aileron tweak, should be interesting to find out the
> impact it has on your speed.
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
>
> I just returned 2 hours ago from Oshkosh and all went well. My wife and I
> spent the night in Helena Mt. and flew in the final leg this morning.
> What a traveling machine. I think in the 2900 hundred mile trip I only had
> the stick in my hand for 1 =BD hours. The rest of the time it was being
> flown by the Digiflight II.
>
> I have the numbers that will be announced on my speed and some speeds from
> N410RV. The latest numbers for Vans plane is 208 mph One other builders
> numbers (can't remember who) were also 208 mph. Mine was only 198. Ken
> Kruger talked to me at Oshkosh and gave me the numbers. It was his
> thought that I may have a rigging problem with the ailerons. He was spot
> on. When we were flying back from Oshkosh I had plenty of time to inspect
> the alignment of the flaps and ailerons. The ailerons are =BC" or more low
> when the flaps are fully in the up position. I must not of had the flap
> all of the way up when I originally set the aileron alignment. Well I
> have already talk with Ken since I have gotten back and he said that it
> was a guess on his part but was glad to hear it was an easy fix. I will
> fly with him again after the adjustments are made and post the new speeds.
> By the way that was at 8000 ft adjusted altitude and 75 percent power.
> The fuel burn at the setting is about 19.2
> gph. When we flew to and from Oshkosh I would say we averaged about 12.5
> gph. And flew between 9500 and 13500 all the way. At 13500 we were
> burning about 10.5 gph. I wish I was still there. We had to come home
> for our 30th. High School Reunion. Randy
>
> Ps. Thanks Tim and Andrea for the nice time. Randy and Cheryl DeBauw
>
>
RV10-List Email Forum -
bsp;
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 6
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| Subject: | Just back from Osh. |
I agree, there is no reason they can not firmly publish numbers from their two
flying engines. When I talked to the pilot of the cub and mentioned that they
are being killed in the rumor mills, all he really would say is that they have
told us the numbers and we choose not to believe them. Even Chuck (owner of
the company) was being his usual dodgy self which seems odd considering they
are supposedly about to release engines to customers. I would most certainly
want to hear reports from at least 5 homebuilders running that engine before
I would consider jumping on that bandwagon.
It's interesting that they stopped building the -10 as it would probably be the
single biggest market for them in the homebuilt arena. Again, not very consumer
savvy. In any case, I may plumb the tanks for a heavy fuel just in case someone
actually lives up to their claims.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 wings
________________________________
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
IF Innodyn can make those numbers, a bunch of thermodynamic engineers are going
to have to rework their numbers. And, Williams and Pratt & Whitney are certainly
going to be embarrassed that all their slack-jawed engineers and massive
research and development facilities couldn't do what Innodyn did in a Quonset
hut. Of course, you noticed that was a big IF.
Chuck Jensen
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
You can also probably forget what their publishing until they put out some real
life numbers - they've been flying in at least 1 factory owned 2 place RV for
over a year and have yet to publish real HP, fuel burn & speed info. Not saying
that their claims are false, just that proof hasn't been published yet.
Bob #40105
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
Hmm, if Innodyn is really pulling off 7 gph/100hp it's not looking so bad anymore
with 18.2 gph at 260hp. Of course you can forget insurance with an experimental
turbine.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Nope, speed cost money. To run any engine it will use about .1 gal per HP. I have
a 260 hp engine and it will use 26 gph at full power. At 75% power 195 hp
to be exact you will use 19.5 gph roughly. At 55% power you will use about 14.5
per hour. That is the facts.
Now you don't get economy from flying at 8000 ft. at 75% power. You need to get
high 13,500 14,500 or higher or pull back to 55% or even 45% power. Your economy
will be much better like 11.5 or 10.5 gph. I was at 13,500 going to Oshkosh
and was traveling just fine with 3 RV4's at 10.5 ghp. Calculate into the cost
of the plane an OXY system of some kind and get some altitude. For local trips
I like to pull back the power to 19 in. or so and cruse along at 12.5 gph
and look out the window. I am sill traveling at 145 knots or so.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Comcast
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Comcast" <kenbpeck@comcast.net>
Yeah, PLEASE tell us that's a typo !!
----- Original Message -----
From: <coop85@bellsouth.net>o
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <coop85@bellsouth.net>
>
> Randy,
> Thanks for the update, I look forward to a 2900nm flight in my machine
> one day. One question, was the fuel burn at 8,000' really 19.2?!!!!! The
> other numbers (12.5 & 10.5) make sense but I'm hoping the other was a
> typo.
>
> Good luck with the aileron tweak, should be interesting to find out the
> impact it has on your speed.
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 8:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Just back from Osh.
>
> I just returned 2 hours ago from Oshkosh and all went well. My wife and I
> spent the night in Helena Mt. and flew in the final leg this morning.
> What a traveling machine. I think in the 2900 hundred mile trip I only had
> the stick in my hand for 1 =BD hours. The rest of the time it was being
> flown by the Digiflight II.
>
> I have the numbers that will be announced on my speed and some speeds from
> N410RV. The latest numbers for Vans plane is 208 mph One other builders
> numbers (can't remember who) were also 208 mph. Mine was only 198. Ken
> Kruger talked to me at Oshkosh and gave me the numbers. It was his
> thought that I may have a rigging problem with the ailerons. He was spot
> on. When we were flying back from Oshkosh I had plenty of time to inspect
> the alignment of the flaps and ailerons. The ailerons are =BC" or more low
> when the flaps are fully in the up position. I must not of had the flap
> all of the way up when I originally set the aileron alignment. Well I
> have already talk with Ken since I have gotten back and he said that it
> was a guess on his part but was glad to hear it was an easy fix. I will
> fly with him again after the adjustments are made and post the new speeds.
> By the way that was at 8000 ft adjusted altitude and 75 percent power.
> The fuel burn at the setting is about 19.2
> gph. When we flew to and from Oshkosh I would say we averaged about 12.5
> gph. And flew between 9500 and 13500 all the way. At 13500 we were
> burning about 10.5 gph. I wish I was still there. We had to come home
> for our 30th. High School Reunion. Randy
>
> Ps. Thanks Tim and Andrea for the nice time. Randy and Cheryl DeBauw
>
>
RV10-List Email Forum -
bsp;
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 7
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Greetings everyone. Well Oshkosh was too much and I made the plunge purchasing
a RV-10 tail kit. I am customer # 40446. Does that mean 446 RV-10 tail kits
have been sold? I ordered on Wednesday and the tail shipped Thursday. Pretty
snappy service.
Other news gleaned from Oshkosh. ECI indicates that they are much closer than
one year away from producing a 540 engine kit. I am already in the debate cycle
as the best route to go and leaning towards doing my own overhaul of a 540.
Inodyn apparently approached Vans about building a demonstrator aircraft with their
turbine and Vans said they were not interested so you may have noticed that
Inodyn then trotted over to Lancair where a mockup was on display. I work
with Allison gas turbines and frankly the published numbers from Inodyn seem pretty
far off the mark. Granted FADEC can make some noticeable improvements but
it is not that magic!
Well I have now entered the fantasy panel mode for the RV-10 as I fall to sleep,
should be an interesting few years.
Bruce Case
616 South Madison Street
Stoughton, WI. 53589
telephone: 608-215-3776
e-mail: pioneer@choiceonemail.com
Message 8
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some questions and
bury that topic for a while...I'll post links later.
Bob Condrey also came up with the idea of adding an RV-10 FAQ, since we
all get asked some of the same questions over and over again. If you
have any contributions you'd like to see in an FAQ, write up the Q&A and
email them to me offline....I'll try to compile an FAQ in whatever
free time I can...and Bob is looking at putting some time into it
as well.
Thanks guys,
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 9
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|
Bruce,
It does indeed mean that you've got the 446th tail kit produced/shipped.
I think that they keep a few of these on hand to ship, but there's
generally a wait time on the other kits. Van's also departed a bit from
tradition this year and left sufficient staff back in Oregon to process
orders during OSH.
You'll probably see some enterprising folks put something other than a
Lycoming in their RV-10, but it won't be with factory support or
endorsement. There's continued talk of a Subaru, Deltahawk, Mistral,
LS1, etc. Last year Innodyn was promising that they'd have a full
firewall forward kit soon for the RV-10 but apparently sold the plane
that they were going to use for development of that. Of all the
alternate engines for RVs (all models), only the Subaru seems to have
any traction and that's because folks like Eggenfeller have developed
very nice, complete firewall forward packages - and the engines are
solid. But even that seems to be off in the future "some time" for the
RV-10.
You've got a while before you need to commit on the engine - just enjoy
the building process!
Bob #40105
Finishing fuselage, waiting for finish kit.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Case
Subject: RV10-List: New Builder
Greetings everyone. Well Oshkosh was too much and I made the plunge
purchasing a RV-10 tail kit. I am customer # 40446. Does that mean 446
RV-10 tail kits have been sold? I ordered on Wednesday and the tail
shipped Thursday. Pretty snappy service.
Other news gleaned from Oshkosh. ECI indicates that they are much
closer than one year away from producing a 540 engine kit. I am already
in the debate cycle as the best route to go and leaning towards doing my
own overhaul of a 540.
Inodyn apparently approached Vans about building a demonstrator aircraft
with their turbine and Vans said they were not interested so you may
have noticed that Inodyn then trotted over to Lancair where a mockup was
on display. I work with Allison gas turbines and frankly the published
numbers from Inodyn seem pretty far off the mark. Granted FADEC can
make some noticeable improvements but it is not that magic!
Well I have now entered the fantasy panel mode for the RV-10 as I fall
to sleep, should be an interesting few years.
Bruce Case
616 South Madison Street
Stoughton, WI. 53589
telephone: 608-215-3776
e-mail: pioneer@choiceonemail.com
Message 10
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
How about an RV-10 "Wiki"?
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some questions and
bury that topic for a while...I'll post links later.
Bob Condrey also came up with the idea of adding an RV-10 FAQ, since we
all get asked some of the same questions over and over again. If you
have any contributions you'd like to see in an FAQ, write up the Q&A and
email them to me offline....I'll try to compile an FAQ in whatever
free time I can...and Bob is looking at putting some time into it
as well.
Thanks guys,
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 11
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Cool, another Wisconsin guy!! I'm up by Eau Claire, if you ever want
to stop up.
That 446 number is interesting....I thought I'd heard 453 and 458
before, so it's strange to hear a lower number now. At any rate,
it should be close the the total number sold.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Bruce Case wrote:
> Greetings everyone. Well Oshkosh was too much and I made the plunge
> purchasing a RV-10 tail kit. I am customer # 40446. Does that mean 446
> RV-10 tail kits have been sold? I ordered on Wednesday and the tail
> shipped Thursday. Pretty snappy service.
>
> Other news gleaned from Oshkosh. ECI indicates that they are much
> closer than one year away from producing a 540 engine kit. I am already
> in the debate cycle as the best route to go and leaning towards doing my
> own overhaul of a 540.
>
> Inodyn apparently approached Vans about building a demonstrator aircraft
> with their turbine and Vans said they were not interested so you may
> have noticed that Inodyn then trotted over to Lancair where a mockup was
> on display. I work with Allison gas turbines and frankly the published
> numbers from Inodyn seem pretty far off the mark. Granted FADEC can
> make some noticeable improvements but it is not that magic!
>
> Well I have now entered the fantasy panel mode for the RV-10 as I fall
> to sleep, should be an interesting few years.
>
> Bruce Case
> 616 South Madison Street
> Stoughton, WI. 53589
> telephone: 608-215-3776
> e-mail: pioneer@choiceonemail.com <mailto:pioneer@choiceonemail.com>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: OSH 2005 Photos |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Yeah, I've wondered about that myself. I don't know if
I'm up for that right now though...but perhaps in the
future. I have some small worries regarding the bandwidth
that I could talk about more offline....like regarding
where it's currently coming from. The website allows me
to trim the photo size, and do what I can to keep it lean.
The email group is good for text, but not so great for
files. I'll have to educate myself a bit though...at this
point I've only set up a wiki one time as a demo, and then
never used it. Good idea though...and maybe we'll see it
happen some time.
Tim
Do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> How about an RV-10 "Wiki"?
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:44 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
> from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
> here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
>
> I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some questions and
> bury that topic for a while...I'll post links later.
>
> Bob Condrey also came up with the idea of adding an RV-10 FAQ, since we
> all get asked some of the same questions over and over again. If you
> have any contributions you'd like to see in an FAQ, write up the Q&A and
> email them to me offline....I'll try to compile an FAQ in whatever
> free time I can...and Bob is looking at putting some time into it
> as well.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Tim
>
Message 13
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Maybe we could get Dan Reeves to host the Wiki . . . : )
TDT
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Yeah, I've wondered about that myself. I don't know if
I'm up for that right now though...but perhaps in the
future. I have some small worries regarding the bandwidth
that I could talk about more offline....like regarding
where it's currently coming from. The website allows me
to trim the photo size, and do what I can to keep it lean.
The email group is good for text, but not so great for
files. I'll have to educate myself a bit though...at this
point I've only set up a wiki one time as a demo, and then
never used it. Good idea though...and maybe we'll see it
happen some time.
Tim
Do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> How about an RV-10 "Wiki"?
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:44 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
> from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
> here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
>
> I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some questions and
> bury that topic for a while...I'll post links later.
>
> Bob Condrey also came up with the idea of adding an RV-10 FAQ, since we
> all get asked some of the same questions over and over again. If you
> have any contributions you'd like to see in an FAQ, write up the Q&A and
> email them to me offline....I'll try to compile an FAQ in whatever
> free time I can...and Bob is looking at putting some time into it
> as well.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Tim
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV Wiki [Was: OSH 2005 Photos] |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I have plenty of bandwidth and space available. Whoever is interested
in managing this can email me offline and I could set this up pretty
quick. Just need content of course.
FYI: I'm also working on a central rvator link farm (since I'm always
going all over the place for links). Soon to be rvatorlinks.com (no,
nothing there yet).
-Sean #40303
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> Maybe we could get Dan Reeves to host the Wiki . . . : )
>
> TDT
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:21 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Yeah, I've wondered about that myself. I don't know if
> I'm up for that right now though...but perhaps in the
> future. I have some small worries regarding the bandwidth
> that I could talk about more offline....like regarding
> where it's currently coming from. The website allows me
> to trim the photo size, and do what I can to keep it lean.
> The email group is good for text, but not so great for
> files. I'll have to educate myself a bit though...at this
> point I've only set up a wiki one time as a demo, and then
> never used it. Good idea though...and maybe we'll see it
> happen some time.
> Tim
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>>
>>
>> How about an RV-10 "Wiki"?
>>
>> TDT
>> 40025
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:44 AM
>> To: RV10
>> Subject: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
>> from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
>> here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
>>
>> I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some questions and
>> bury that topic for a while...I'll post links later.
>>
>> Bob Condrey also came up with the idea of adding an RV-10 FAQ, since we
>> all get asked some of the same questions over and over again. If you
>> have any contributions you'd like to see in an FAQ, write up the Q&A and
>> email them to me offline....I'll try to compile an FAQ in whatever
>> free time I can...and Bob is looking at putting some time into it
>> as well.
>>
>> Thanks guys,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
Wiki page would be great!
Many will ask what is a Wiki page? - It's a web page that has an "edit" button
at the bottom. Users - Anyone can edit the page to put up new information or
ask questions. If someone wants to be bad and trashes the page, it can restored
easily - No damage can be done!
So having a wiki page would be great.
Jim C
#40192
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@avidyne.com>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Maybe we could get Dan Reeves to host the Wiki . . . : )
TDT
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Yeah, I've wondered about that myself. I don't know if
I'm up for that right now though...but perhaps in the
future. I have some small worries regarding the bandwidth
that I could talk about more offline....like regarding
where it's currently coming from. The website allows me
to trim the photo size, and do what I can to keep it lean.
The email group is good for text, but not so great for
files. I'll have to educate myself a bit though...at this
point I've only set up a wiki one time as a demo, and then
never used it. Good idea though...and maybe we'll see it
happen some time.
Tim
Do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> How about an RV-10 "Wiki"?
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:44 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
> from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
> here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
>
> I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some questions and
> bury that topic for a while...I'll post links later.
>
> Bob Condrey also came up with the idea of adding an RV-10 FAQ, since we
> all get asked some of the same questions over and over again. If you
> have any contributions you'd like to see in an FAQ, write up the Q&A and
> email them to me offline....I'll try to compile an FAQ in whatever
> free time I can...and Bob is looking at putting some time into it
> as well.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Tim
>
Message 16
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|
One thing about you, you always make me giggle. He's probably host it if we buy
him some gas. ;-)
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
--> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Maybe we could get Dan Reeves to host the Wiki . . . : )
TDT
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Yeah, I've wondered about that myself. I don't know if I'm up for that right now
though...but perhaps in the future. I have some small worries regarding the
bandwidth that I could talk about more offline....like regarding where it's
currently coming from. The website allows me to trim the photo size, and do what
I can to keep it lean.
The email group is good for text, but not so great for files. I'll have to educate
myself a bit though...at this point I've only set up a wiki one time as a
demo, and then never used it. Good idea though...and maybe we'll see it happen
some time.
Tim
Do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
> --> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> How about an RV-10 "Wiki"?
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:44 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
> from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
> here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
>
> I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some questions
> and bury that topic for a while...I'll post links later.
>
> Bob Condrey also came up with the idea of adding an RV-10 FAQ, since
> we all get asked some of the same questions over and over again. If
> you have any contributions you'd like to see in an FAQ, write up the
> Q&A and email them to me offline....I'll try to compile an FAQ in
> whatever free time I can...and Bob is looking at putting some time
> into it as well.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Tim
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RV Wiki [Was: OSH 2005 Photos] |
What is a Wiki?
Doug
40372
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 18
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|
d="scan'208"; a="69177178:sNHT20847572"
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or at
least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but this is
about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue. Out of 400+ I
can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award of some kind...
I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call. Since
I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I may
actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before doing
anything.
However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of this
as a plan:
I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located at
the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more. I then
start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final setting using
the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the rudder towards the
mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and sight down the rudder. As
soon as it straightens out, if it does, I stop doing one rivet after the
other in succession and begin staggering.
I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to
release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be helpful
to those who follow.
Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you use
(per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron), sight down
the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand the rudder
upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the wall. This is
what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I sighted directly down
the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't deviate from the plans in terms
of partially setting every 5th (or randomly) rivet. I think I know when the
bend occurred, and that was when I was testing how hard to drive the shop
heads by setting about 3 in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue
setting at random after I realized what I had done. I think it was at that
point that it took the bend. Although because my sighting method was
faulty, I never saw it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge
rivets.
John Jessen
#40328 Rudder
Message 19
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| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
John I will be at the airport tonight and I have a suggestion that
worked for me. I should be there at about 6:00 or so. Randy
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or
at least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but
this is about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue.
Out of 400+ I can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award
of some kind...
I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call.
Since I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I
may actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before
doing anything.
However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of
this as a plan:
I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located
at the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more.
I then start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final
setting using the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the
rudder towards the mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and
sight down the rudder. As soon as it straightens out, if it does, I
stop doing one rivet after the other in succession and begin staggering.
I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to
release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be
helpful to those who follow.
Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you
use (per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron),
sight down the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand
the rudder upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the
wall. This is what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I
sighted directly down the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't
deviate from the plans in terms of partially setting every 5th (or
randomly) rivet. I think I know when the bend occurred, and that was
when I was testing how hard to drive the shop heads by setting about 3
in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue setting at random after
I realized what I had done. I think it was at that point that it took
the bend. Although because my sighting method was faulty, I never saw
it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge rivets.
John Jessen
#40328 Rudder
Message 20
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| Subject: | Color after Alodine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to
be a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG
Chemfil DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough?
Larry
#356
http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Color after Alodine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Larry, depending on where you got your alodine ..... that may be all
you're going to get. Years ago you could buy liquid alodine that was
potent .... and you got the golden color. Along comes the EPA and said
chromium was harmful (isn't everything but pure air???) so the
concentration was cut drastically. So the answer is to buy the powder
and mix your own potent stuff. There's bunches of stuff in the archive.
What I do with the pre-mix is spray it on the aluminum and wipe it
around with a terry cloth rag (which will disintegrate after a while due
to the acid) keeping the area wet. Then I let it dry. Hold on, no
flames yet! Read the instructions on the bottle! Then I repeat the
process again and instead of letting it dry, I wash with copious amounts
of water. I still don't get the real golden color, but it's the best I
can do.
I'm buying some powder and will mix my own ..... and make whatever
'tubs' necessary to immerse my parts. For that golden color, I hope!!!
Linn ..... workshop going up!
Larry Rosen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>
> I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to
> be a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG
> Chemfil DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough?
>
> Larry
> #356
> http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/
>
>
--
Message 22
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| Subject: | Color after Alodine |
Hmm, don't know about the PPG stuff but if it's the same as the Eldorado then you
may have left them in too long. Shouldn't hurt anything just check on them
a little sooner with your next batch. The most I leave them dipped normally
is around 5 minutes. I had a small part fall off the coat hanger into my dip
tank and it was just beyond my reach. By the time I got it out (20 minutes or
so) it was a medium brown. Washed it off and wiped off some of the residue and
it was just fine.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Subject: RV10-List: Color after Alodine
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to be a golden
color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG Chemfil DX503. Did
I not rinse the parts enough?
Larry
#356
http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/
Message 23
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d="scan'208"; a="1392009398:sNHT23133060"
| Subject: | Color after Alodine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
You just left them in the alodine a bit too long...
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Subject: RV10-List: Color after Alodine
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to
be a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG
Chemfil DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough?
Larry
#356
http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/
Message 24
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| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Pose the same question to Kent White "Tin Man" of Tin Man Tech.
http://www.tinmantech.com/ Kent gave seven excellent seminars in Tent
#21 over the OSH '05 run. He has thirty five years of experience
solving these issues and is on record doing the aluminum on the late Jim
Wright = Hughes Racer.
You may get more mileage on his answer than at VANS. Just a thought.
John - KUAO and still doing dirty laundry.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
John I will be at the airport tonight and I have a suggestion that
worked for me. I should be there at about 6:00 or so. Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or
at least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but
this is about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue.
Out of 400+ I can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award
of some kind...
I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call.
Since I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I
may actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before
doing anything.
However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of
this as a plan:
I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located
at the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more.
I then start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final
setting using the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the
rudder towards the mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and
sight down the rudder. As soon as it straightens out, if it does, I
stop doing one rivet after the other in succession and begin staggering.
I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to
release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be
helpful to those who follow.
Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you
use (per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron),
sight down the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand
the rudder upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the
wall. This is what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I
sighted directly down the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't
deviate from the plans in terms of partially setting every 5th (or
randomly) rivet. I think I know when the bend occurred, and that was
when I was testing how hard to drive the shop heads by setting about 3
in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue setting at random after
I realized what I had done. I think it was at that point that it took
the bend. Although because my sighting method was faulty, I never saw
it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge rivets.
John Jessen
#40328 Rudder
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Color after Alodine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Thanks everyone for the quick response. Now off to prime the parts.
Do not Archive
Stein Bruch wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
>You just left them in the alodine a bit too long...
>
>Cheers,
>Stein.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
>Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 4:03 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Color after Alodine
>
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>
>I just finished alodining my first batch of parts. I expected them to
>be a golden color, but they came out a coffee brown. I am using PPG
>Chemfil DX503. Did I not rinse the parts enough?
>
>Larry
>#356
>http://rv10pilot.home.comcast.net/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Color after Alodine |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
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in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
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Message 27
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| Subject: | Windshield Defroster |
Hello all, well I finally received my first ride in the factory RV-10 at
Oshkosh. I will type up my thoughts but I was very impressed with the
takeoff and climb performance as well as the slow flight
characteristics. I also finalized my panel thoughts and it looks like
were getting the Chelton system. I really spend some time at their
booth and at Grand Rapids and decided the money was going to be worth
it.
Anyway, my real question is about windshield defrosters. Do you need
one? I have seen guys just use some computer fans to blow air up to
the windshield. So for all you current RV flyers, is this a problem?
Do you need it? If so, what fans have do you recommend?
Thanks.
Scott Schmidt
sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge |
Hi John,
What method did you use to build the TE - Vans method or the 'angle iron' method?
Did you use proseal on the edges? How much hook is there? How much pressure
did you use to set the rivets?
I've completed the TEs on the rudder, elevators and ailerons using the following
method:
a. I used the angle iron back rivet setup per Mike Howe and Tim O.
b. I alternated the rivets such that the manufactured heads are on both
sides of the TE.
c. I used drift punches to mandraulically set the rivets on the angle iron
in a totally random order. This ensures that ALL the pounding is limited to
the rivet, not the surrounding skin and AEX wedge. When using the flat (mushroom)
set to finish the rivets, a fair bit of air pressure can be required.
Too much time on a rivet and you can distort the AEX wedge (and cause a hook)
d. Once the rivets are done on one side, flip it over and use the mushroom
set to flush down the manufactured head (not too long) and again in a random
order.
e. repeat for the other side.
I have used this technique both with and without proseal. I did not use proseal
on the rudder - it came out fine. I used it on the elevators and ailerons and
they came out perfect. I am a first time builder and not a pro - but a lot
of trailing edges I have seen have smileys and recesses around the rivets indicating
that the rivet (and surrounding area) have really been pounded. I think
this is one of the reasons for waves and hooks in the TE
If you can't live with it and need to fix it, it should be a simple matter of drilling
the TE rivets. If the AEX is deformed get a new one. If you used proseal,
the TE may be a little harder to separate but I have heard that a heat gun
helps soften the proseal. Drilling out the TE rivets may sound like a major
disaster but in reality it just takes time. I mislabeled the right aileron
bottom skin and back rivetted all the stiffeners the wrong way round. I had to
remove all 56 rivets and redo them - the result was excellent, but it added
another 1.5 hours to my builders log :-<.
If you can still sleep at night (without worrying about it), you can always put
it aside and keep building. It's not going anywhere and you will have plenty
of time to research possible solutions. You can always fix it later.
Hope this helps a little,
cheers,
Ron
#187 flaps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RV10-List: Rudder Trailing Edge
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or at
least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but this is
about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue. Out of 400+ I
can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award of some kind...
I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call. Since
I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I may
actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before doing
anything.
However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of this
as a plan:
I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located at
the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more. I then
start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final setting using
the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the rudder towards the
mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and sight down the rudder. As
soon as it straightens out, if it does, I stop doing one rivet after the
other in succession and begin staggering.
I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to
release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be helpful
to those who follow.
Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you use
(per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron), sight down
the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand the rudder
upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the wall. This is
what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I sighted directly down
the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't deviate from the plans in terms
of partially setting every 5th (or randomly) rivet. I think I know when the
bend occurred, and that was when I was testing how hard to drive the shop
heads by setting about 3 in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue
setting at random after I realized what I had done. I think it was at that
point that it took the bend. Although because my sighting method was
faulty, I never saw it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge
rivets.
John Jessen
#40328 Rudder
Message 29
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I posted a copy of the aero trim literature on the pictures section of
this list. Tim, can you add it to your website?
Gary
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
John,
When you say you have a hook, how bad is it? Can you put a known straight edge
on it and tell us how far off it is. Are you looking at 1/8" or is it more?
In the end you are the one that will have to decide how bad it really is. I know
that isn't much help at all.
Jim Combs
#40192
N312F
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Seems nobody has had this "hook" problem on the rudder trailing edge, or at
least no one has a solution. Tim responded with a "good luck," but this is
about as quiet as I've seen the list about a building issue. Out of 400+ I
can't be alone in this! If I am, there should be an award of some kind...
I've sent an email to Van's and will follow that with a phone call. Since
I'm in OR, and am building within 10 mi of their headquarters, I may
actually take the rudder to them and let them look at it before doing
anything.
However, for those experienced builders out there, what do you think of this
as a plan:
I, as best as possible, mark the beginning of the bend, which is located at
the rudder top, and I think about 5-7 rivets down, maybe a few more. I then
start about 3 rivets below this mark and begin to do the final setting using
the mushroom set, working my way, rivet by rivet, up the rudder towards the
mark. After each rivet is final set, I stop and sight down the rudder. As
soon as it straightens out, if it does, I stop doing one rivet after the
other in succession and begin staggering.
I'm not sure what to do if the bend remains! Drill out the rivets to
release the tension? Any thoughts would be most welcome and may be helpful
to those who follow.
Also, perhaps a suggestion for Tim's pages. No matter the method you use
(per plans or as others have done with the length of angle iron), sight down
the edge with the edge pointing to the ceiling. Don't stand the rudder
upright and look at it with the edge pointing towards the wall. This is
what I did, and I swear I never saw the bend until I sighted directly down
the edge. Then it was obvious. Also, don't deviate from the plans in terms
of partially setting every 5th (or randomly) rivet. I think I know when the
bend occurred, and that was when I was testing how hard to drive the shop
heads by setting about 3 in a row. I said to myself to stop and continue
setting at random after I realized what I had done. I think it was at that
point that it took the bend. Although because my sighting method was
faulty, I never saw it until I was finished with all 59 trailing edge
rivets.
John Jessen
#40328 Rudder
Message 31
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Tim, how much did they charge you for the motor? Is it a zero time or
rebuild?
Do you have a name and phone number for them?
Thanks
John Miller
40404 empennage
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield Defroster |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
On my RV-6A I can divert the pilot's heat vent to the defroster hole on
top of the glare shield. It's been very handy when the windshield fogs
over. I'll do the same thing on my RV-10.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Scott Schmidt wrote:
> Hello all, well I finally received my first ride in the factory RV-10 at
> Oshkosh. I will type up my thoughts but I was very impressed with the
> takeoff and climb performance as well as the slow flight
> characteristics. I also finalized my panel thoughts and it looks like
> were getting the Chelton system. I really spend some time at their
> booth and at Grand Rapids and decided the money was going to be worth it.
>
>
>
> Anyway, my real question is about windshield defrosters. Do you need
> one? I have seen guys just use some computer fans to blow air up to
> the windshield. So for all you current RV flyers, is this a problem?
> Do you need it? If so, what fans have do you recommend?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Scott Schmidt
>
> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
>
>
>
Message 33
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hey Gary, I can't see the picture anywhere. can you email it to me?
Gary Specketer wrote:
> I posted a copy of the aero trim literature on the pictures section of
> this list. Tim, can you add it to your website?
> Gary
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: For Tim Olson |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Their prices were exactly as advertized on their web page. The total
package, with the Lightspeed Plasma III and all of the options I bought
(which didn't include an alternator) was just over $33,500. It's
not technically "zero time" since it's not done at the factory, so
it's an overhaul, but with an experimental, you still start the logs
at zero. Had it been certified, it may have been a different story.
Bart overhauls only to NEW limits though, so the crank is not
ground undersized and all parts that were not brand new should be
the same as new.
All of their contact info is at:
http://www.aerosportpower.com/
If you don't have access to the website, let me know and I'll
dig up the address and phone for you.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
do not archive
GenGrumpy@aol.com wrote:
> Tim, how much did they charge you for the motor? Is it a zero time or
> rebuild?
>
> Do you have a name and phone number for them?
>
> Thanks
>
> John Miller
> 40404 empennage
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield Defroster |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris" <toaster73@earthlink.net>
Thats what I plan on doing, installing a diverter from the heating system up
to the front edge of the windshield -just like an ole car without A/C.
Chris L
#40072
wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Lewis" <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Windshield Defroster
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
>
> On my RV-6A I can divert the pilot's heat vent to the defroster hole on
> top of the glare shield. It's been very handy when the windshield fogs
> over. I'll do the same thing on my RV-10.
>
> Tim
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
>> Hello all, well I finally received my first ride in the factory RV-10 at
>> Oshkosh. I will type up my thoughts but I was very impressed with the
>> takeoff and climb performance as well as the slow flight characteristics.
>> I also finalized my panel thoughts and it looks like were getting the
>> Chelton system. I really spend some time at their booth and at Grand
>> Rapids and decided the money was going to be worth it.
>>
>> Anyway, my real question is about windshield defrosters. Do you need
>> one? I have seen guys just use some computer fans to blow air up to the
>> windshield. So for all you current RV flyers, is this a problem? Do you
>> need it? If so, what fans have do you recommend?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Scott Schmidt
>>
>> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | horizontal & vertical fairing |
For those of the group that are at the point of attaching the fairing between
the horizontal & vertical , if you already have the horizontal stab on and tuned
& don't want to remove it to do this job , i used a 90 degree on the drill
with the 36 degree tap on the slow speed ( and you must be steady ) with oil
, worked like a charm.
Tim thanks for the great pics !!
Brian Bollaert
#40200
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Run a string line down the trailing edge, Van's says to stay within 1/16" of an
inch. I recommend playing with putting a dowel under the high spot of the hook
which I interpret as a "bow" in the edge. Place the trailing edge with the bow
deflection or as you look at it so, "it smiles not frowns at you" on a flat
surface such as your back rivet plate. Put the dowel I find 3/4" or larger under
the lowest part or top of the radius of the hook/bow. Take your time and work
the piece by HAND, slowly applying pressure and moving the dowel as you go.
The aluminum assembly is flexible and you will have to exceed what seems to
be an amount that would make the edge go the other way to far...hence SLOW. I
had a simlilar instance on my flap...very slight. Work the trailing edge with
your hand pressure a little at a time a small wood block works well too...you
can work it out. For those who have not had much experience manipulating aluminum
it is very resilient, up to a point, it likes slow steady pressure to give
way, push it to hard and fast or use brute force, it will snap, crack and split.
With small pressures against the bend you should be able to work it out,
More that 1/4" will take some finesse, post a photo, if your near Las Vegas I
could show you the technique, I'll step out of a PC explaination and tell ya....go
at it like it's your best gal....slow and easy....little at a time....it
will work.
Rick S.
40185
Waiting on the Fuse delivery
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Color after Alodine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Type of aluminum will affect the color as well...as long as it turned brown your
OK. Alodine changes the molecular surface structure of the aluminum, color change
equals chemical reaction equals your good to go!!!
Rick S.
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