Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:59 AM - Re: Battery Purchase (Tim Olson)
2. 06:25 AM - Re: Battery Purchase (Tim Olson)
3. 10:06 AM - Re: Battery Purchase (Carl Froehlich)
4. 10:06 AM - engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 (Phil Hall)
5. 10:39 AM - Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 (RAS)
6. 11:43 AM - Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 (JOHN STARN)
7. 12:05 PM - Re: Battery Purchase (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
8. 12:44 PM - Re: Battery Purchase (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
9. 12:57 PM - Re: Battery Purchase (Tim Olson)
10. 01:00 PM - Re: Battery Purchase (David McNeill)
11. 01:00 PM - Re: Battery Purchase (Tim Olson)
12. 01:04 PM - Re: Battery Purchase (Tim Olson)
13. 01:21 PM - Re: Battery Purchase (Carl Froehlich)
14. 01:52 PM - Re: Battery Purchase (Tim Olson)
15. 02:51 PM - Re: OSH 2005 Photos (Shawn Moon)
16. 04:14 PM - Re: OSH 2005 Photos (Sean Stephens)
17. 06:36 PM - AHRS mounting (Tim Olson)
18. 09:04 PM - Re: AHRS mounting (David McNeill)
19. 09:41 PM - Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 (DejaVu)
20. 10:37 PM - Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 (JOHN STARN)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I've re-converted Carl's powerpoint to .pdf for easier distribution,
and it's now linked from my tips page.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
Try it from there and maybe you'll have luck.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mark Ritter wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"
>
> Dan
>
> I'm getting a message Carl's power diagram file is damaged and can't be
> opened. Please try and send it again in pdf format.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Dan Malwitz" <dmalwitz@toast.net>
> >Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> >Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:35:41 -0400
> >
> >For those of you who don't have PowerPoint, here is Carl's Power
> diagram in
> >a PDF format. It is only 68k so I've attached it here.
> >
> >
> >Regards,
> >Dan Malwitz
> >Planning to start in 2006
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:11 PM
> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> >
> >--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> >Hey, Guys....
> >
> >Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
> >http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.ppt
> >
> >That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
> >
> >Tim
> >
> >
> >Dick Gurley wrote:
> > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley"
> <rngurley@mindspring.com>
> > >
> > > Please sent to me as well.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Dick Gurley
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Leach
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> > >
> > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach"
> <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
> > >
> > > Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
> > >
> > > Rick Leach
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> > > Froehlich
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> > >
> > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
> > > <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
> > >
> > > I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
> > > dual
> > > electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is based on
> > > being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the alternator and
> > > one
> > > battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll send the power
> > > distribution diagram.
> > >
> > > Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have done
> > > some
> > > single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just fine.
> > >
> > > Carl Froehlich
> > > RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
> > > (US SSA)
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> > >
> > >
> > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
> > > <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
> > >
> > > Tim,
> > >
> > > Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair of
> > > smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
> > > additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
> > > related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
> > > and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
> > > considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
> > > redundancy.
> > >
> > > Bob #40105
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
> > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> > >
> > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> > >
> > > Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
> > > and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that
> > > can push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein
> > > got a couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that
> > > route, but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well
> > > pick one up and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
> > > up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
> > > in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going
> > > slow right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once
> > > I finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll
> > > be moving quite fast again.
> > >
> > > Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> > > Current project: Fuselage
> > >
> > > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> > >
> > >
> > > Rick wrote:
> > >
> > >>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
> > >>
> > >>Tim,
> > >>
> > >>I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see, if
> > >
> > > has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
> > >
> > >>rick S.
> > >>40185
> > >>Wings
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ><< 716RV_WIRING_DIAG.pdf >>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
that his was very similar to mine in concept.
He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition
is fed from a separate bus. In addition to both vital and
non-vital busses on left and right, he has a main bus, that
is for completely non-vital stuff. The main difference with
his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to start the
engine, and he splits his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be
smaller, and will not be used during engine start for
cranking, but for powering up some engine equipment and
the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and
an Avionics Bus. The difference here is just that I now
can have an Avionics Master (nice since some of the equipment
has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there
is one more bus, and that's the Main buss. This bus is
only used for lighting and completely non-critical stuff.
So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator
just to provide some additional power should the main
alternator fail. Basically, you woulndn't be using
these essential busses if you had a working alternator,
so I felt it necessary....but it would depend on your
required loads and total time you want to keep flying.
If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very
well decide to ditch my Aux. Alternator.
My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't
updated it yet to include an internally regulated alternator).
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's
great to compare and look at ideas.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Hey, Guys....
>
> Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
> http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.ppt
>
> That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Dick Gurley wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley" <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Please sent to me as well.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dick Gurley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Leach
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>
>> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
>>
>> Rick Leach
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>> Froehlich
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>
>> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
>> dual
>> electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is based on
>> being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the alternator and
>> one
>> battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll send the power
>> distribution diagram.
>>
>> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have done
>> some
>> single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just fine.
>>
>> Carl Froehlich
>> RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
>> (US SSA)
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair of
>> smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
>> additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
>> related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
>> and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
>> considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
>> redundancy.
>>
>> Bob #40105
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
>> and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that
>> can push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein
>> got a couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that
>> route, but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well
>> pick one up and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
>> up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
>> in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going
>> slow right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once
>> I finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll
>> be moving quite fast again.
>>
>> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> Rick wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see, if
>>
>>
>> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
>>
>>> rick S.
>>> 40185
>>> Wings
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
Thanks Tim.
There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries instead
of one large battery and one small backup or "essential" battery. My
thinking was that while flying, electrical faults will happen, and
electrical resources should degrade gracefully when these faults happen.
With an all electric panel and dual electronic ignitions, the other design
element was the pilot will not trouble shoot problems until the plane is on
the ground. These characteristics however were byproducts of the one main
design criteria, that no single fault could cause a total lose of electrical
power. I have studied several dual battery, single and or dual alternator
setups that in one way or another fail to satisfy this criteria. Usually
the single fault point is a junction of some sort that if shorted to ground
(explodes) would bring down the whole system.
Some other thoughts:
- One of the major steady state load is the power to just keep the master
solenoids shut. On my ship, the first step in a loss of alternator problem
is to open both master switches. The only loads lost are those on the
non-vital buss (nav/landing lights, pitot heat, etc.). Those loads can be
brought back when needed (landing) by shutting one or both master solenoids.
This load shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight on
battery power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both master
solenoids also isolates one battery from the other - thus incase the
alternator failure was caused by some other fault at least one battery is
now protected. Once the masters are open you can quickly tell what is going
on.
- The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that draw
only 100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for either
battery.
- The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again to
isolate from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both batteries.
- Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when the
batteries are in parallel (normal operation).
- There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic ignitions. As
long as there is one battery, the engine hardly notices the difference.
There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power distribution
system. This is just another one for consideration and/or a starting point
for further modifications.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
that his was very similar to mine in concept.
He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition
is fed from a separate bus. In addition to both vital and
non-vital busses on left and right, he has a main bus, that
is for completely non-vital stuff. The main difference with
his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to start the
engine, and he splits his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be
smaller, and will not be used during engine start for
cranking, but for powering up some engine equipment and
the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and
an Avionics Bus. The difference here is just that I now
can have an Avionics Master (nice since some of the equipment
has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there
is one more bus, and that's the Main buss. This bus is
only used for lighting and completely non-critical stuff.
So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator
just to provide some additional power should the main
alternator fail. Basically, you woulndn't be using
these essential busses if you had a working alternator,
so I felt it necessary....but it would depend on your
required loads and total time you want to keep flying.
If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very
well decide to ditch my Aux. Alternator.
My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't
updated it yet to include an internally regulated alternator).
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's
great to compare and look at ideas.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Hey, Guys....
>
> Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
> http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.ppt
>
> That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Dick Gurley wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley" <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Please sent to me as well.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dick Gurley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Leach
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>
>> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
>>
>> Rick Leach
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>> Froehlich
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>
>> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
>> dual
>> electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is based on
>> being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the alternator and
>> one
>> battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll send the power
>> distribution diagram.
>>
>> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have done
>> some
>> single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just fine.
>>
>> Carl Froehlich
>> RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
>> (US SSA)
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair of
>> smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
>> additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
>> related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
>> and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
>> considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
>> redundancy.
>>
>> Bob #40105
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
>> and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that
>> can push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein
>> got a couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that
>> route, but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well
>> pick one up and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
>> up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
>> in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going
>> slow right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once
>> I finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll
>> be moving quite fast again.
>>
>> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> Rick wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see, if
>>
>>
>> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
>>
>>> rick S.
>>> 40185
>>> Wings
>>>
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Message 4
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|
| Subject: | engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 |
I just hung my IO-540-C4B5 and as you can see there is no clearance between
the pan and engine mount. Am I the only one to have this problem? Open
for suggestions.
Phil
The Hangar Man
Message 5
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|
| Subject: | Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
Have you got the correct mount for Your engine? Is this a new engine?
marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Hall" <phil@asibuildings.com>
Subject: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
>I just hung my IO-540-C4B5 and as you can see there is no clearance between
> the pan and engine mount. Am I the only one to have this problem? Open
> for suggestions.
>
> Phil
> The Hangar Man
>
>
Message 6
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| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Are you sure the "rubber" engine mounts are installed in the proper order.
They install differently (reversed) top & bottom, the order/sequence could
mean an angle change which could lift the pan/sump away from the mount. ???
Note the word "could", I'm not sure of your mounts or the C4B5.
KABONG HRII IO-540 J4A5 Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Hall" <phil@asibuildings.com>
Subject: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
>I just hung my IO-540-C4B5 and as you can see there is no clearance between
> the pan and engine mount. Am I the only one to have this problem? Open
> for suggestions.
>
> Phil
> The Hangar Man
>
>
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Battery Purchase |
The single item that is keeping me on the one large battery, one small battery
path is engine start. If I were to go with two medium batteries for redundancy,
I'm guessing I would still have the possibility for voltage drop below the
reset point for many of the avionics or worse, the ignition system. This is
completely unacceptable to me. So at this time I will probably stick with a single
large battery with a small battery to act as power during startup and emergency
needs. I would rather engineer to a common problem than an uncommon and
at this point this makes sense.
Now I would love to hear if voltage drop is a problem from you or Bob once you
are flying. I still prefer the idea of two medium batteries but need more data
to support it. Please keep us updated.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing Ribs
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
--> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
Thanks Tim.
There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries instead of
one large battery and one small backup or "essential" battery. My thinking was
that while flying, electrical faults will happen, and electrical resources
should degrade gracefully when these faults happen.
With an all electric panel and dual electronic ignitions, the other design element
was the pilot will not trouble shoot problems until the plane is on the ground.
These characteristics however were byproducts of the one main design criteria,
that no single fault could cause a total lose of electrical power. I
have studied several dual battery, single and or dual alternator setups that in
one way or another fail to satisfy this criteria. Usually the single fault
point is a junction of some sort that if shorted to ground
(explodes) would bring down the whole system.
Some other thoughts:
- One of the major steady state load is the power to just keep the master solenoids
shut. On my ship, the first step in a loss of alternator problem is to open
both master switches. The only loads lost are those on the non-vital buss
(nav/landing lights, pitot heat, etc.). Those loads can be brought back when
needed (landing) by shutting one or both master solenoids.
This load shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight on battery
power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both master solenoids
also isolates one battery from the other - thus incase the alternator failure
was caused by some other fault at least one battery is now protected. Once the
masters are open you can quickly tell what is going on.
- The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that draw only
100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for either battery.
- The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again to isolate
from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both batteries.
- Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when the batteries
are in parallel (normal operation).
- There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic ignitions. As long
as there is one battery, the engine hardly notices the difference.
There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power distribution system.
This is just another one for consideration and/or a starting point for further
modifications.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
that his was very similar to mine in concept.
He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition is fed from a separate
bus. In addition to both vital and non-vital busses on left and right, he
has a main bus, that is for completely non-vital stuff. The main difference with
his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to start the engine, and he splits
his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be smaller, and will not
be used during engine start for cranking, but for powering up some engine equipment
and
the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and an Avionics Bus. The difference
here is just that I now can have an Avionics Master (nice since some of
the equipment
has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there is one more bus, and
that's the Main buss. This bus is only used for lighting and completely non-critical
stuff.
So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator just to provide some additional
power should the main alternator fail. Basically, you woulndn't be
using these essential busses if you had a working alternator, so I felt it necessary....but
it would depend on your required loads and total time you want to
keep flying.
If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very well decide to ditch my
Aux. Alternator.
My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't updated it yet to include
an internally regulated alternator).
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's great to compare and look
at ideas.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Hey, Guys....
>
> Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
> http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.pp
> t
>
> That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Dick Gurley wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley"
>> --> <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Please sent to me as well.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dick Gurley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
>> Leach
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach"
>> --> <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>
>> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
>>
>> Rick Leach
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>> Froehlich
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>
>> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
>> dual electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is
>> based on being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the
>> alternator and one battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll
>> send the power distribution diagram.
>>
>> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have
>> done some single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just
>> fine.
>>
>> Carl Froehlich
>> RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey,
>> Bob (US SSA)
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair
>> of smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
>> additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
>> related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
>> and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
>> considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
>> redundancy.
>>
>> Bob #40105
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
>> and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that can
>> push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein got a
>> couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that route,
>> but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well pick one up
>> and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
>> up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
>> in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going slow
>> right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once I
>> finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll be
>> moving quite fast again.
>>
>> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> Rick wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see,
>>> if
>>
>>
>> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
>>
>>> rick S.
>>> 40185
>>> Wings
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Michael,
I'm hoping there isn't an issue - the two 17ah PC680 batteries have far more juice
than a single RG-25. It is my understanding that in non-extreme cold conditions
that a single PC680 could crank an IO-540 alone. Using a PM starter is
much more likely to cause the issues you mention.
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
The single item that is keeping me on the one large battery, one small battery
path is engine start. If I were to go with two medium batteries for redundancy,
I'm guessing I would still have the possibility for voltage drop below the
reset point for many of the avionics or worse, the ignition system. This is
completely unacceptable to me. So at this time I will probably stick with a single
large battery with a small battery to act as power during startup and emergency
needs. I would rather engineer to a common problem than an uncommon and
at this point this makes sense.
Now I would love to hear if voltage drop is a problem from you or Bob once you
are flying. I still prefer the idea of two medium batteries but need more data
to support it. Please keep us updated.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing Ribs
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
--> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
Thanks Tim.
There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries instead of
one large battery and one small backup or "essential" battery. My thinking was
that while flying, electrical faults will happen, and electrical resources
should degrade gracefully when these faults happen.
With an all electric panel and dual electronic ignitions, the other design element
was the pilot will not trouble shoot problems until the plane is on the ground.
These characteristics however were byproducts of the one main design criteria,
that no single fault could cause a total lose of electrical power. I
have studied several dual battery, single and or dual alternator setups that in
one way or another fail to satisfy this criteria. Usually the single fault
point is a junction of some sort that if shorted to ground
(explodes) would bring down the whole system.
Some other thoughts:
- One of the major steady state load is the power to just keep the master solenoids
shut. On my ship, the first step in a loss of alternator problem is to open
both master switches. The only loads lost are those on the non-vital buss
(nav/landing lights, pitot heat, etc.). Those loads can be brought back when
needed (landing) by shutting one or both master solenoids.
This load shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight on battery
power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both master solenoids
also isolates one battery from the other - thus incase the alternator failure
was caused by some other fault at least one battery is now protected. Once the
masters are open you can quickly tell what is going on.
- The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that draw only
100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for either battery.
- The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again to isolate
from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both batteries.
- Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when the batteries
are in parallel (normal operation).
- There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic ignitions. As long
as there is one battery, the engine hardly notices the difference.
There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power distribution system.
This is just another one for consideration and/or a starting point for further
modifications.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
that his was very similar to mine in concept.
He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition is fed from a separate
bus. In addition to both vital and non-vital busses on left and right, he
has a main bus, that is for completely non-vital stuff. The main difference with
his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to start the engine, and he splits
his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be smaller, and will not
be used during engine start for cranking, but for powering up some engine equipment
and
the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and an Avionics Bus. The difference
here is just that I now can have an Avionics Master (nice since some of
the equipment
has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there is one more bus, and
that's the Main buss. This bus is only used for lighting and completely non-critical
stuff.
So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator just to provide some additional
power should the main alternator fail. Basically, you woulndn't be
using these essential busses if you had a working alternator, so I felt it necessary....but
it would depend on your required loads and total time you want to
keep flying.
If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very well decide to ditch my
Aux. Alternator.
My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't updated it yet to include
an internally regulated alternator).
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's great to compare and look
at ideas.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Hey, Guys....
>
> Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
> http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.pp
> t
>
> That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Dick Gurley wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley"
>> --> <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Please sent to me as well.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dick Gurley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
>> Leach
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach"
>> --> <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>
>> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
>>
>> Rick Leach
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>> Froehlich
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>
>> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
>> dual electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is
>> based on being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the
>> alternator and one battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll
>> send the power distribution diagram.
>>
>> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have
>> done some single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just
>> fine.
>>
>> Carl Froehlich
>> RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey,
>> Bob (US SSA)
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair
>> of smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
>> additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
>> related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
>> and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
>> considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
>> redundancy.
>>
>> Bob #40105
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
>> and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that can
>> push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein got a
>> couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that route,
>> but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well pick one up
>> and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
>> up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
>> in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going slow
>> right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once I
>> finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll be
>> moving quite fast again.
>>
>> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> Rick wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see,
>>> if
>>
>>
>> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
>>
>>> rick S.
>>> 40185
>>> Wings
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
====================================
RV10-List Email Forum -
more:
bsp;
====================================
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Comments inline...
Carl Froehlich wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>
> Thanks Tim.
>
> There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries instead
> of one large battery and one small backup or "essential" battery. My
> thinking was that while flying, electrical faults will happen, and
> electrical resources should degrade gracefully when these faults happen.
> With an all electric panel and dual electronic ignitions, the other design
> element was the pilot will not trouble shoot problems until the plane is on
> the ground. These characteristics however were byproducts of the one main
> design criteria, that no single fault could cause a total lose of electrical
> power. I have studied several dual battery, single and or dual alternator
> setups that in one way or another fail to satisfy this criteria. Usually
> the single fault point is a junction of some sort that if shorted to ground
> (explodes) would bring down the whole system.
Don't get me wrong, I think your system is FANTASTIC. I agree that
there are benefits of the 2 bigger batteries over my one smaller
one. (Interestingly enough though, my small battery is currently
a 12Ah, and I'm considering the PC-625 or PC-680 as the "small" one,
and the PC-925 as the "large" one...for I0-540 cranking power) I think
your system is very good indeed. I too should be able to operate
on the "small" battery just like you. Also, just as you mention, you
don't want anything to cause a total loss of power. I still have
one Mag, so I'm not as "dependent" as you are on electrical, but
hell, I don't think an engine is all you need to get out of an
IFR flight if you lose your electrical system. ;) On mine, I also
added a sourcing switch so you could run the electronic ignition
from either bus.
What I think would be a "better" compromise, in the end, would be to
get rid of the electric ignition systems that require electricity...and
go with something like the P-mag. Too bad it isn't out for the 6-cyl's
yet. For you though, that would actually even bring your ultimate
endurance and failsafe modes up another notch. Of course, at the
point where yours/ours electrical systems can't run an electronic
ignition anymore, we've got other BIG problems. ;)
>
> Some other thoughts:
> - One of the major steady state load is the power to just keep the master
> solenoids shut. On my ship, the first step in a loss of alternator problem
> is to open both master switches. The only loads lost are those on the
> non-vital buss (nav/landing lights, pitot heat, etc.). Those loads can be
> brought back when needed (landing) by shutting one or both master solenoids.
> This load shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight on
> battery power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both master
> solenoids also isolates one battery from the other - thus incase the
> alternator failure was caused by some other fault at least one battery is
> now protected. Once the masters are open you can quickly tell what is going
> on.
>
That is a consideration. Doesn't the master solenoid draw nearly an
Amp? Again, you've got a great system for isolating and continuing
in the face of a problem.
> - The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that draw
> only 100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for either
> battery.
>
> - The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again to
> isolate from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both batteries.
>
Wow, very thought out!
> - Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when the
> batteries are in parallel (normal operation).
>
True, but hopefully by planning the loads, you could do this with
just about any pair of batteries.
> - There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic ignitions. As
> long as there is one battery, the engine hardly notices the difference.
>
Great feature.
> There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power distribution
> system. This is just another one for consideration and/or a starting point
> for further modifications.
>
This kind of planning is what I think is one of the nicest benefits to
building your own plane. You can asses your own risk, and plan to
your level of paranoia. ;) Some think these things are overkill,
and some think they're not enough. With quality components, hopefully
it wouldn't matter either way, but, stuff still happens.
Thanks again Carl!
Tim
> Carl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:18 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
> diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
> that his was very similar to mine in concept.
>
> He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
> own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
> used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition
> is fed from a separate bus. In addition to both vital and
> non-vital busses on left and right, he has a main bus, that
> is for completely non-vital stuff. The main difference with
> his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to start the
> engine, and he splits his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
>
>
> Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be
> smaller, and will not be used during engine start for
> cranking, but for powering up some engine equipment and
> the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
> I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and
> an Avionics Bus. The difference here is just that I now
> can have an Avionics Master (nice since some of the equipment
> has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
> easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there
> is one more bus, and that's the Main buss. This bus is
> only used for lighting and completely non-critical stuff.
> So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
> only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
> all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator
> just to provide some additional power should the main
> alternator fail. Basically, you woulndn't be using
> these essential busses if you had a working alternator,
> so I felt it necessary....but it would depend on your
> required loads and total time you want to keep flying.
> If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very
> well decide to ditch my Aux. Alternator.
>
> My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't
> updated it yet to include an internally regulated alternator).
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
>
> Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's
> great to compare and look at ideas.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>>Hey, Guys....
>>
>>Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
>>http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.ppt
>>
>>That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>>
>>Tim
>>
>>
>>Dick Gurley wrote:
>>
>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley" <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>>
>>>Please sent to me as well.
>>>
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Dick Gurley
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Leach
>>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>>
>>>Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
>>>
>>>Rick Leach
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>>>Froehlich
>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>>><carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>>
>>>I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
>>>dual
>>>electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is based on
>>>being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the alternator and
>>>one
>>>battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll send the power
>>>distribution diagram.
>>>
>>>Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have done
>>>some
>>>single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just fine.
>>>
>>>Carl Froehlich
>>>RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob
>>>(US SSA)
>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>>><bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>>
>>>Tim,
>>>
>>>Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair of
>>>smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
>>>additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
>>>related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
>>>and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
>>>considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
>>>redundancy.
>>>
>>>Bob #40105
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>>Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
>>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>>Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
>>>and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that
>>>can push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein
>>>got a couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that
>>>route, but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well
>>>pick one up and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
>>>up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
>>>in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going
>>>slow right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once
>>>I finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll
>>>be moving quite fast again.
>>>
>>>Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>>Current project: Fuselage
>>>
>>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>>
>>>
>>>Rick wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>>Tim,
>>>>
>>>>I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see, if
>>>
>>>
>>>has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
>>>
>>>
>>>>rick S.
>>>>40185
>>>>Wings
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
regarding the cranking of the IO540 with a 680. I have the new IO540 and the
engine starter specs. The draw IIRC is about 300A to start the moving and
rapidly drops to about 200A for the remainder of the cranking. If someone is
interested I will dig out the manual and get the official numbers.
Incidentally the 680 in the Glastar cranks the Skytec starter like the
aircraft engine/motor is electric. Very fast crank.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>
> Michael,
>
> I'm hoping there isn't an issue - the two 17ah PC680 batteries have far
> more juice than a single RG-25. It is my understanding that in
> non-extreme cold conditions that a single PC680 could crank an IO-540
> alone. Using a PM starter is much more likely to cause the issues you
> mention.
>
> Bob
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sun Aug 14 12:05:02 2005
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
> The single item that is keeping me on the one large battery, one small
> battery path is engine start. If I were to go with two medium batteries
> for redundancy, I'm guessing I would still have the possibility for
> voltage drop below the reset point for many of the avionics or worse, the
> ignition system. This is completely unacceptable to me. So at this time
> I will probably stick with a single large battery with a small battery to
> act as power during startup and emergency needs. I would rather engineer
> to a common problem than an uncommon and at this point this makes sense.
>
> Now I would love to hear if voltage drop is a problem from you or Bob
> once you are flying. I still prefer the idea of two medium batteries but
> need more data to support it. Please keep us updated.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Wing Ribs
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 12:05 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
> --> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>
> Thanks Tim.
>
> There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries
> instead of one large battery and one small backup or "essential" battery.
> My thinking was that while flying, electrical faults will happen, and
> electrical resources should degrade gracefully when these faults happen.
> With an all electric panel and dual electronic ignitions, the other design
> element was the pilot will not trouble shoot problems until the plane is
> on the ground. These characteristics however were byproducts of the one
> main design criteria, that no single fault could cause a total lose of
> electrical power. I have studied several dual battery, single and or dual
> alternator setups that in one way or another fail to satisfy this
> criteria. Usually the single fault point is a junction of some sort that
> if shorted to ground
> (explodes) would bring down the whole system.
>
> Some other thoughts:
> - One of the major steady state load is the power to just keep the master
> solenoids shut. On my ship, the first step in a loss of alternator
> problem is to open both master switches. The only loads lost are those on
> the non-vital buss (nav/landing lights, pitot heat, etc.). Those loads
> can be brought back when needed (landing) by shutting one or both master
> solenoids.
> This load shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight on
> battery power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both master
> solenoids also isolates one battery from the other - thus incase the
> alternator failure was caused by some other fault at least one battery is
> now protected. Once the masters are open you can quickly tell what is
> going on.
>
> - The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that draw
> only 100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for either
> battery.
>
> - The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again to
> isolate from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both batteries.
>
> - Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when the
> batteries are in parallel (normal operation).
>
> - There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic ignitions.
> As long as there is one battery, the engine hardly notices the difference.
>
> There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power distribution
> system. This is just another one for consideration and/or a starting
> point for further modifications.
>
> Carl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:18 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
> diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
> that his was very similar to mine in concept.
>
> He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
> own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
> used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition is fed from a
> separate bus. In addition to both vital and non-vital busses on left and
> right, he has a main bus, that is for completely non-vital stuff. The
> main difference with his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to start the
> engine, and he splits his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
>
>
> Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be smaller, and will
> not be used during engine start for cranking, but for powering up some
> engine equipment and
> the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
> I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and an Avionics Bus.
> The difference here is just that I now can have an Avionics Master (nice
> since some of the equipment
> has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
> easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there is one more bus,
> and that's the Main buss. This bus is only used for lighting and
> completely non-critical stuff.
> So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
> only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
> all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator just to provide
> some additional power should the main alternator fail. Basically, you
> woulndn't be using these essential busses if you had a working alternator,
> so I felt it necessary....but it would depend on your required loads and
> total time you want to keep flying.
> If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very well decide to
> ditch my Aux. Alternator.
>
> My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't updated it yet
> to include an internally regulated alternator).
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
>
> Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's great to compare
> and look at ideas.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Hey, Guys....
>>
>> Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
>> http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.pp
>> t
>>
>> That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> Dick Gurley wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley"
>>> --> <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>>
>>> Please sent to me as well.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Dick Gurley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
>>> Leach
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach"
>>> --> <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>>
>>> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
>>>
>>> Rick Leach
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>>> Froehlich
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>>> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>>
>>> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
>>> dual electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is
>>> based on being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the
>>> alternator and one battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll
>>> send the power distribution diagram.
>>>
>>> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have
>>> done some single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> Carl Froehlich
>>> RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey,
>>> Bob (US SSA)
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair
>>> of smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
>>> additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
>>> related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
>>> and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
>>> considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
>>> redundancy.
>>>
>>> Bob #40105
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
>>> and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that can
>>> push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein got a
>>> couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that route,
>>> but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well pick one up
>>> and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
>>> up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
>>> in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going slow
>>> right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once I
>>> finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll be
>>> moving quite fast again.
>>>
>>> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>> Current project: Fuselage
>>>
>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>> Tim,
>>>>
>>>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see,
>>>> if
>>>
>>>
>>> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
>>>
>>>> rick S.
>>>> 40185
>>>> Wings
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> more:
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Actually, I really like Carl's plan. Just like Michael, my
only reason for NOT going that way is for the engine start
mode of operation. The only way to really accomplish what
I'd want, if I went the dual PC-680 route, is to add a 3rd
battery during engine start. I think that up here in the
cold winters, 2 PC-680's might just be required for some
cold starts. Still would need one to keep my EIS/EFIS
happy. (I know, it's not 100% necessary...but I want it.)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> The single item that is keeping me on the one large battery, one small
> battery path is engine start. If I were to go with two medium batteries
> for redundancy, I'm guessing I would still have the possibility for
> voltage drop below the reset point for many of the avionics or worse,
> the ignition system. This is completely unacceptable to me. So at this
> time I will probably stick with a single large battery with a small
> battery to act as power during startup and emergency needs. I would
> rather engineer to a common problem than an uncommon and at this point
> this makes sense.
>
> Now I would love to hear if voltage drop is a problem from you or Bob
> once you are flying. I still prefer the idea of two medium batteries
> but need more data to support it. Please keep us updated.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Wing Ribs
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 12:05 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
> --> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>
> Thanks Tim.
>
> There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries
> instead of one large battery and one small backup or "essential"
> battery. My thinking was that while flying, electrical faults will
> happen, and electrical resources should degrade gracefully when these
> faults happen.
> With an all electric panel and dual electronic ignitions, the other
> design element was the pilot will not trouble shoot problems until the
> plane is on the ground. These characteristics however were byproducts
> of the one main design criteria, that no single fault could cause a
> total lose of electrical power. I have studied several dual battery,
> single and or dual alternator setups that in one way or another fail to
> satisfy this criteria. Usually the single fault point is a junction of
> some sort that if shorted to ground
> (explodes) would bring down the whole system.
>
> Some other thoughts:
> - One of the major steady state load is the power to just keep the
> master solenoids shut. On my ship, the first step in a loss of
> alternator problem is to open both master switches. The only loads lost
> are those on the non-vital buss (nav/landing lights, pitot heat, etc.).
> Those loads can be brought back when needed (landing) by shutting one or
> both master solenoids.
> This load shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight
> on battery power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both
> master solenoids also isolates one battery from the other - thus incase
> the alternator failure was caused by some other fault at least one
> battery is now protected. Once the masters are open you can quickly
> tell what is going on.
>
> - The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that
> draw only 100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for
> either battery.
>
> - The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again to
> isolate from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both batteries.
>
> - Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when the
> batteries are in parallel (normal operation).
>
> - There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic
> ignitions. As long as there is one battery, the engine hardly notices
> the difference.
>
> There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power distribution
> system. This is just another one for consideration and/or a starting
> point for further modifications.
>
> Carl
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:18 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
> diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
> that his was very similar to mine in concept.
>
> He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
> own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
> used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition is fed from a
> separate bus. In addition to both vital and non-vital busses on left
> and right, he has a main bus, that is for completely non-vital stuff.
> The main difference with his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to
> start the engine, and he splits his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
>
>
> Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be smaller, and
> will not be used during engine start for cranking, but for powering up
> some engine equipment and
> the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
> I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and an Avionics Bus.
> The difference here is just that I now can have an Avionics Master (nice
> since some of the equipment
> has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
> easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there is one more
> bus, and that's the Main buss. This bus is only used for lighting and
> completely non-critical stuff.
> So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
> only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
> all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator just to provide
> some additional power should the main alternator fail. Basically, you
> woulndn't be using these essential busses if you had a working
> alternator, so I felt it necessary....but it would depend on your
> required loads and total time you want to keep flying.
> If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very well decide to
> ditch my Aux. Alternator.
>
> My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't updated it yet
> to include an internally regulated alternator).
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
>
> Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's great to compare
> and look at ideas.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> > Hey, Guys....
> >
> > Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
> > http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.pp
> > t
> >
> > That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > Dick Gurley wrote:
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley"
> >> --> <rngurley@mindspring.com>
> >>
> >> Please sent to me as well.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Dick Gurley
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> >> Leach
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> >>
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach"
> >> --> <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
> >>
> >> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
> >>
> >> Rick Leach
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> >> Froehlich
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> >>
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
> >> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
> >>
> >> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
> >> dual electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is
> >> based on being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the
> >> alternator and one battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll
> >> send the power distribution diagram.
> >>
> >> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have
> >> done some single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just
> >> fine.
> >>
> >> Carl Froehlich
> >> RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey,
> >> Bob (US SSA)
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> >>
> >>
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
> >> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
> >>
> >> Tim,
> >>
> >> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair
> >> of smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
> >> additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
> >> related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
> >> and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
> >> considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
> >> redundancy.
> >>
> >> Bob #40105
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> >> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
> >>
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>
> >> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
> >> and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that can
> >> push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein got a
> >> couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that route,
> >> but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well pick one up
> >> and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
> >> up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
> >> in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going slow
> >> right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once I
> >> finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll be
> >> moving quite fast again.
> >>
> >> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
> >>
> >> Tim
> >>
> >> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> >> Current project: Fuselage
> >>
> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >>
> >>
> >> Rick wrote:
> >>
> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
> >>>
> >>> Tim,
> >>>
> >>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see,
> >>> if
> >>
> >>
> >> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
> >>
> >>> rick S.
> >>> 40185
> >>> Wings
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> more:
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
My last plane with an O-360 had an RG-35 battery. I put in
an RG-35XC as an upgrade. Never had it fail to crank the
engine, so I can't tell how overkill that was, but the
RG-35 was standard. I guess that's why I'm additicted
to the bigger battery. As for the PM starters....isn't
that pretty much what everyone is using these days? Mines
a skytec HT starter.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>
> Michael,
>
> I'm hoping there isn't an issue - the two 17ah PC680 batteries have
> far more juice than a single RG-25. It is my understanding that in
> non-extreme cold conditions that a single PC680 could crank an IO-540
> alone. Using a PM starter is much more likely to cause the issues
> you mention.
>
> Bob -------------------------- Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless
> Handheld
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> <rv10-list@matronics.com> Sent: Sun Aug 14 12:05:02 2005 Subject: RE:
> RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
> The single item that is keeping me on the one large battery, one
> small battery path is engine start. If I were to go with two medium
> batteries for redundancy, I'm guessing I would still have the
> possibility for voltage drop below the reset point for many of the
> avionics or worse, the ignition system. This is completely
> unacceptable to me. So at this time I will probably stick with a
> single large battery with a small battery to act as power during
> startup and emergency needs. I would rather engineer to a common
> problem than an uncommon and at this point this makes sense.
>
> Now I would love to hear if voltage drop is a problem from you or Bob
> once you are flying. I still prefer the idea of two medium batteries
> but need more data to support it. Please keep us updated.
>
> Michael Sausen -10 #352 Wing Ribs
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Froehlich Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 12:05 PM To:
> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" -->
> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>
> Thanks Tim.
>
> There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries
> instead of one large battery and one small backup or "essential"
> battery. My thinking was that while flying, electrical faults will
> happen, and electrical resources should degrade gracefully when these
> faults happen. With an all electric panel and dual electronic
> ignitions, the other design element was the pilot will not trouble
> shoot problems until the plane is on the ground. These
> characteristics however were byproducts of the one main design
> criteria, that no single fault could cause a total lose of electrical
> power. I have studied several dual battery, single and or dual
> alternator setups that in one way or another fail to satisfy this
> criteria. Usually the single fault point is a junction of some sort
> that if shorted to ground (explodes) would bring down the whole
> system.
>
> Some other thoughts: - One of the major steady state load is the
> power to just keep the master solenoids shut. On my ship, the first
> step in a loss of alternator problem is to open both master switches.
> The only loads lost are those on the non-vital buss (nav/landing
> lights, pitot heat, etc.). Those loads can be brought back when
> needed (landing) by shutting one or both master solenoids. This load
> shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight on
> battery power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both
> master solenoids also isolates one battery from the other - thus
> incase the alternator failure was caused by some other fault at least
> one battery is now protected. Once the masters are open you can
> quickly tell what is going on.
>
> - The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that
> draw only 100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for
> either battery.
>
> - The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again
> to isolate from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both
> batteries.
>
> - Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when
> the batteries are in parallel (normal operation).
>
> - There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic
> ignitions. As long as there is one battery, the engine hardly
> notices the difference.
>
> There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power
> distribution system. This is just another one for consideration
> and/or a starting point for further modifications.
>
> Carl
>
>
> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:18 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power diagram until
> this a.m. I was very surprised to see that his was very similar to
> mine in concept.
>
> He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their own "Vital"
> bus. Both batteries, left and right, are used for starting the
> engine, but each electronic ignition is fed from a separate bus. In
> addition to both vital and non-vital busses on left and right, he has
> a main bus, that is for completely non-vital stuff. The main
> difference with his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to start the
> engine, and he splits his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
>
>
> Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be smaller, and
> will not be used during engine start for cranking, but for powering
> up some engine equipment and the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and
> and AUX Bus. I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and an
> Avionics Bus. The difference here is just that I now can have an
> Avionics Master (nice since some of the equipment has no on/off
> switch). The Essential bus allows me to easily kill all of my
> non-essential avionics. Then there is one more bus, and that's the
> Main buss. This bus is only used for lighting and completely
> non-critical stuff. So, with very little work, I can shut down to
> critical only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to all
> of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator just to provide
> some additional power should the main alternator fail. Basically,
> you woulndn't be using these essential busses if you had a working
> alternator, so I felt it necessary....but it would depend on your
> required loads and total time you want to keep flying. If I get a
> larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very well decide to ditch my
> Aux. Alternator.
>
> My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't updated it
> yet to include an internally regulated alternator).
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
>
> Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's great to
> compare and look at ideas.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Hey, Guys....
>>
>> Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
>> http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.pp
>> t
>>
>> That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> Dick Gurley wrote:
>>
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley" -->
>>> <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>>
>>> Please sent to me as well.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Dick Gurley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Richard Leach Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM To:
>>> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach" -->
>>> <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>>
>>> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the
>>> diagram.
>>>
>>> Rick Leach
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>>> Froehlich Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM To:
>>> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>>> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>>
>>> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install
>>> supports dual electronic ignitions and an all electric panel.
>>> The design is based on being able to continue IFR flight with the
>>> lost of the alternator and one battery until fuel exhaustion. If
>>> interested I'll send the power distribution diagram.
>>>
>>> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I
>>> have done some single battery op tests. One battery spins my
>>> O-360 just fine.
>>>
>>> Carl Froehlich RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>>> Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery
>>> Purchase
>>>
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a
>>> pair of smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight
>>> penalty of the additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the
>>> Concorde. Add in the related additional contactor(s) depending
>>> on the exact implementation and you're far lighter than the big
>>> Odyssey batteries that you're considering. Upside is that you'll
>>> get an additional layer of redundancy.
>>>
>>> Bob #40105
>>>
>>> -----Original Message----- From:
>>> owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
>>> Olson Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM To:
>>> rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V
>>> conditioned and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a
>>> supply that can push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or
>>> more. Stein got a couple good ones for OSH...man were they big.
>>> I can go that route, but I figured if I needed a battery anyway,
>>> I may as well pick one up and just use it and have my 10A battery
>>> charger hooked up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be
>>> needing a battery in the plane by the end of the year anyway.
>>> Things are going slow right now, but I'm on multiple task
>>> branches....I think once I finsish some of these branches and
>>> focus on single tasks, I'll be moving quite fast again.
>>>
>>> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Fuselage
>>>
>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>>
>>>> Tim,
>>>>
>>>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and
>>>> see, if
>>>
>>>
>>> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying
>>> around.
>>>
>>>
>>>> rick S. 40185 Wings
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ==================================== RV10-List Email Forum - more:
> bsp; ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Battery Purchase |
RE: RV10-List: Battery PurchaseMichael,
This is the system I am flying with in my RV-8A. There is no issue with
voltage drop on start. During single battery testing, one battery spun my
new O-360 just fine (please note I would never take off with one battery -
just testing to see performance in various modes). I'd have to check
starting current for an IO-540, but perhaps a single PC-625 would start it
under most conditions. But again normal mode is both batteries in parallel
for start and normal flight. Another option is to use two PC-680s.
My electronic ignitions is supposed to work down to 9 VDC or so.
You do make a good point however on running a mix of batteries in parallel.
I figured two identical batteries will have the same internal resistance,
and thus similar voltage/current curves. For the one large, one small
battery set up I would perhaps use a blocking diode to isolate the small
battery from discharging into the large battery as would be the case when
the large battery has a problem (shorted cell) or is flat for some other
reason - and to isolate the small battery from the engine start current
draw.
Please also note this system was designed to support dual electronic
ignitions and an all electric panel. If I were running at least one mag I
may have done a few things different.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 3:05 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
The single item that is keeping me on the one large battery, one small
battery path is engine start. If I were to go with two medium batteries for
redundancy, I'm guessing I would still have the possibility for voltage drop
below the reset point for many of the avionics or worse, the ignition
system. This is completely unacceptable to me. So at this time I will
probably stick with a single large battery with a small battery to act as
power during startup and emergency needs. I would rather engineer to a
common problem than an uncommon and at this point this makes sense.
Now I would love to hear if voltage drop is a problem from you or Bob
once you are flying. I still prefer the idea of two medium batteries but
need more data to support it. Please keep us updated.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing Ribs
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 12:05 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
--> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
Thanks Tim.
There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries
instead of one large battery and one small backup or "essential" battery.
My thinking was that while flying, electrical faults will happen, and
electrical resources should degrade gracefully when these faults happen.
With an all electric panel and dual electronic ignitions, the other design
element was the pilot will not trouble shoot problems until the plane is on
the ground. These characteristics however were byproducts of the one main
design criteria, that no single fault could cause a total lose of electrical
power. I have studied several dual battery, single and or dual alternator
setups that in one way or another fail to satisfy this criteria. Usually
the single fault point is a junction of some sort that if shorted to ground
(explodes) would bring down the whole system.
Some other thoughts:
- One of the major steady state load is the power to just keep the master
solenoids shut. On my ship, the first step in a loss of alternator problem
is to open both master switches. The only loads lost are those on the
non-vital buss (nav/landing lights, pitot heat, etc.). Those loads can be
brought back when needed (landing) by shutting one or both master solenoids.
This load shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight on
battery power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both master
solenoids also isolates one battery from the other - thus incase the
alternator failure was caused by some other fault at least one battery is
now protected. Once the masters are open you can quickly tell what is going
on.
- The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that draw
only 100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for either
battery.
- The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again to
isolate from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both batteries.
- Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when the
batteries are in parallel (normal operation).
- There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic ignitions.
As long as there is one battery, the engine hardly notices the difference.
There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power distribution
system. This is just another one for consideration and/or a starting point
for further modifications.
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:18 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
that his was very similar to mine in concept.
He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition is fed from a
separate bus. In addition to both vital and non-vital busses on left and
right, he has a main bus, that is for completely non-vital stuff. The main
difference with his is that he uses his 2 batteries both to start the
engine, and he splits his loads on vital equipment to 2 busses.
Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be smaller, and will
not be used during engine start for cranking, but for powering up some
engine equipment and
the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and an Avionics Bus.
The difference here is just that I now can have an Avionics Master (nice
since some of the equipment
has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there is one more bus,
and that's the Main buss. This bus is only used for lighting and completely
non-critical stuff.
So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator just to provide
some additional power should the main alternator fail. Basically, you
woulndn't be using these essential busses if you had a working alternator,
so I felt it necessary....but it would depend on your required loads and
total time you want to keep flying.
If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very well decide to
ditch my Aux. Alternator.
My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't updated it yet
to include an internally regulated alternator).
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's great to compare
and look at ideas.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current project: Fuselage
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Hey, Guys....
>
> Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
> http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.pp
> t
>
> That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Dick Gurley wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley"
>> --> <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>
>> Please sent to me as well.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Dick Gurley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
>> Leach
>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach"
>> --> <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>
>> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
>>
>> Rick Leach
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>> Froehlich
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>
>> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
>> dual electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is
>> based on being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the
>> alternator and one battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll
>> send the power distribution diagram.
>>
>> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have
>> done some single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just
>> fine.
>>
>> Carl Froehlich
>> RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey,
>> Bob (US SSA)
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair
>> of smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
>> additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
>> related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
>> and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
>> considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
>> redundancy.
>>
>> Bob #40105
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
>> and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that can
>> push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein got a
>> couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that route,
>> but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well pick one up
>> and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
>> up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
>> in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going slow
>> right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once I
>> finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll be
>> moving quite fast again.
>>
>> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> Rick wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Tim,
>>>
>>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see,
>>> if
>>
>>
>> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
>>
>>> rick S.
>>> 40185
>>> Wings
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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RV10-List Email Forum -
more:
bsp;
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Purchase |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Cool David, thanks for providing those numbers. It's nice to
see what the real specs show.
For comparison to Odyssey batteries, here's the specs on those:
CCA Nom.Capacity Reserve Capacity
PC625 265 17Ah 27 min
PC680 220 16Ah 24 min
PC925 380 27Ah 52 min
PC1200 550 40Ah 78 min
Ahh these specs are from here:
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/specs.htm
Interesting....I would have thought the capacities go up
with higher model number, but that PC625 of Carls actually
has more oompf than the PC680...
Tim
David McNeill wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>
> regarding the cranking of the IO540 with a 680. I have the new IO540 and
> the engine starter specs. The draw IIRC is about 300A to start the
> moving and rapidly drops to about 200A for the remainder of the
> cranking. If someone is interested I will dig out the manual and get the
> official numbers. Incidentally the 680 in the Glastar cranks the Skytec
> starter like the aircraft engine/motor is electric. Very fast crank.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
> To: <RV10-List@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 12:45 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I'm hoping there isn't an issue - the two 17ah PC680 batteries have
>> far more juice than a single RG-25. It is my understanding that in
>> non-extreme cold conditions that a single PC680 could crank an IO-540
>> alone. Using a PM starter is much more likely to cause the issues you
>> mention.
>>
>> Bob
>> --------------------------
>> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sun Aug 14 12:05:02 2005
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> The single item that is keeping me on the one large battery, one small
>> battery path is engine start. If I were to go with two medium
>> batteries for redundancy, I'm guessing I would still have the
>> possibility for voltage drop below the reset point for many of the
>> avionics or worse, the ignition system. This is completely
>> unacceptable to me. So at this time I will probably stick with a
>> single large battery with a small battery to act as power during
>> startup and emergency needs. I would rather engineer to a common
>> problem than an uncommon and at this point this makes sense.
>>
>> Now I would love to hear if voltage drop is a problem from you or Bob
>> once you are flying. I still prefer the idea of two medium batteries
>> but need more data to support it. Please keep us updated.
>>
>> Michael Sausen
>> -10 #352 Wing Ribs
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
>> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 12:05 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>> --> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>
>> Thanks Tim.
>>
>> There are some advantages to having the two Odyssey PC-625 batteries
>> instead of one large battery and one small backup or "essential"
>> battery. My thinking was that while flying, electrical faults will
>> happen, and electrical resources should degrade gracefully when these
>> faults happen.
>> With an all electric panel and dual electronic ignitions, the other
>> design element was the pilot will not trouble shoot problems until the
>> plane is on the ground. These characteristics however were byproducts
>> of the one main design criteria, that no single fault could cause a
>> total lose of electrical power. I have studied several dual battery,
>> single and or dual alternator setups that in one way or another fail
>> to satisfy this criteria. Usually the single fault point is a
>> junction of some sort that if shorted to ground
>> (explodes) would bring down the whole system.
>>
>> Some other thoughts:
>> - One of the major steady state load is the power to just keep the
>> master solenoids shut. On my ship, the first step in a loss of
>> alternator problem is to open both master switches. The only loads
>> lost are those on the non-vital buss (nav/landing lights, pitot heat,
>> etc.). Those loads can be brought back when needed (landing) by
>> shutting one or both master solenoids.
>> This load shedding achieves the design element of continued IFR flight
>> on battery power alone until fuel exhaustion. The step to open both
>> master solenoids also isolates one battery from the other - thus
>> incase the alternator failure was caused by some other fault at least
>> one battery is now protected. Once the masters are open you can
>> quickly tell what is going on.
>>
>> - The left and right vital busses are powered via 30 amp relays that
>> draw only 100ma when shut. Also, either vital bus can be powered for
>> either battery.
>>
>> - The batteries are located on opposite sides of the fuselage - again
>> to isolate from the catastrophic battery failure taking out both
>> batteries.
>>
>> - Having both batteries identical mitigates load sharing issues when
>> the batteries are in parallel (normal operation).
>>
>> - There is no need to have alternate power for the electronic
>> ignitions. As long as there is one battery, the engine hardly notices
>> the difference.
>>
>> There are many good approached to a modern, reliable power
>> distribution system. This is just another one for consideration
>> and/or a starting point for further modifications.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 9:18 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Wow, I hadn't had time to really look at Carl's Power
>> diagram until this a.m. I was very surprised to see
>> that his was very similar to mine in concept.
>>
>> He's got a "Left" and "Right" buss....each with their
>> own "Vital" bus. Both batteries, left and right, are
>> used for starting the engine, but each electronic ignition is fed from
>> a separate bus. In addition to both vital and non-vital busses on
>> left and right, he has a main bus, that is for completely non-vital
>> stuff. The main difference with his is that he uses his 2 batteries
>> both to start the engine, and he splits his loads on vital equipment
>> to 2 busses.
>>
>>
>> Mine is built with the idea that the 2nd battery will be smaller, and
>> will not be used during engine start for cranking, but for powering up
>> some engine equipment and
>> the main EFIS pair. I have a MAIN and and AUX Bus.
>> I also have an Essential bus (like his vital bus) and an Avionics Bus.
>> The difference here is just that I now can have an Avionics Master
>> (nice since some of the equipment
>> has no on/off switch). The Essential bus allows me to
>> easily kill all of my non-essential avionics. Then there is one more
>> bus, and that's the Main buss. This bus is only used for lighting and
>> completely non-critical stuff.
>> So, with very little work, I can shut down to critical
>> only and ditch anything wasting power. In addition to
>> all of this, I currently have planned an Aux. Alternator just to
>> provide some additional power should the main alternator fail.
>> Basically, you woulndn't be using these essential busses if you had a
>> working alternator, so I felt it necessary....but it would depend on
>> your required loads and total time you want to keep flying.
>> If I get a larger-than-planned aux. battery, I may very well decide to
>> ditch my Aux. Alternator.
>>
>> My circuit is also posted on the tips page (but I haven't updated it
>> yet to include an internally regulated alternator).
>> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/electrical.html
>>
>> Thanks again Carl, for allowing us your diagram. It's great to
>> compare and look at ideas.
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> Current project: Fuselage
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>> Hey, Guys....
>>>
>>> Carl's Power diagram is posted at:
>>> http://www.myrv10.com/files/electrical/schematics/716RV_wiring_diag.pp
>>> t
>>>
>>> That should save him emailing it out one-by-one.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> Dick Gurley wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dick Gurley"
>>>> --> <rngurley@mindspring.com>
>>>>
>>>> Please sent to me as well.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Dick Gurley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
>>>> Leach
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:10 PM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Leach"
>>>> --> <papadaddyo@verizon.net>
>>>>
>>>> Carl, add one more to the list that would like to have the diagram.
>>>>
>>>> Rick Leach
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
>>>> Froehlich
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:03 PM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich"
>>>> <carl.froehlich@cox.net>
>>>>
>>>> I have a pair of Odyssey PC-625's in my RV-8A. The install supports
>>>> dual electronic ignitions and an all electric panel. The design is
>>>> based on being able to continue IFR flight with the lost of the
>>>> alternator and one battery until fuel exhaustion. If interested I'll
>>>> send the power distribution diagram.
>>>>
>>>> Although the normal mode is to have both batteries on line, I have
>>>> done some single battery op tests. One battery spins my O-360 just
>>>> fine.
>>>>
>>>> Carl Froehlich
>>>> RV-8A (200 hrs), RV-10 on the wish list
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Condrey,
>>>> Bob (US SSA)
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:49 PM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
>>>> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>>>>
>>>> Tim,
>>>>
>>>> Another option is the route I'm going - I decided to go with a pair
>>>> of smaller PC-680s and use the Z-14 approach. Weight penalty of the
>>>> additional battery is only ~6 pounds over the Concorde. Add in the
>>>> related additional contactor(s) depending on the exact implementation
>>>> and you're far lighter than the big Odyssey batteries that you're
>>>> considering. Upside is that you'll get an additional layer of
>>>> redundancy.
>>>>
>>>> Bob #40105
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:52 AM
>>>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Battery Purchase
>>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>>
>>>> Oh the supply of 12V isn't a problem....I have a 3A 12V conditioned
>>>> and regulated supply. The problem is that I want a supply that can
>>>> push maybe 20-25A continuous for 15 minutes or more. Stein got a
>>>> couple good ones for OSH...man were they big. I can go that route,
>>>> but I figured if I needed a battery anyway, I may as well pick one up
>>>> and just use it and have my 10A battery charger hooked
>>>> up at the same time. I'm hoping that I'll be needing a battery
>>>> in the plane by the end of the year anyway. Things are going slow
>>>> right now, but I'm on multiple task branches....I think once I
>>>> finsish some of these branches and focus on single tasks, I'll be
>>>> moving quite fast again.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to all for your input on the batteries.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>>> Current project: Fuselage
>>>>
>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Rick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim,
>>>>>
>>>>> I use a computer power supply for bench work, pull one out and see,
>>>>> if
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> has a nice 12v power output and I'll bet you have one lying around.
>>>>
>>>>> rick S.
>>>>> 40185
>>>>> Wings
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ====================================
>> RV10-List Email Forum -
>> more:
>> bsp;
>> ====================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I had thought of this as well....even came up with how I would lay it out. But,
I am a Windows guy so I don't know much about Linux yet. I had even checked
and found out that RVWiki.com is available. My only other hesitation was whether
anybody would use it or not. It would be impossible for just one or two
people to make it a worth while resource.
Jim Combs <jimc@mail.infra-read.com> wrote:--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim
Combs"
Wiki page would be great!
Many will ask what is a Wiki page? - It's a web page that has an "edit" button
at the bottom. Users - Anyone can edit the page to put up new information or ask
questions. If someone wants to be bad and trashes the page, it can restored
easily - No damage can be done!
So having a wiki page would be great.
Jim C
#40192
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
Maybe we could get Dan Reeves to host the Wiki . . . : )
TDT
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
Yeah, I've wondered about that myself. I don't know if
I'm up for that right now though...but perhaps in the
future. I have some small worries regarding the bandwidth
that I could talk about more offline....like regarding
where it's currently coming from. The website allows me
to trim the photo size, and do what I can to keep it lean.
The email group is good for text, but not so great for
files. I'll have to educate myself a bit though...at this
point I've only set up a wiki one time as a demo, and then
never used it. Good idea though...and maybe we'll see it
happen some time.
Tim
Do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
>
>
> How about an RV-10 "Wiki"?
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:44 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
>
> I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
> from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
> here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
>
> I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some questions and
> bury that topic for a while...I'll post links later.
>
> Bob Condrey also came up with the idea of adding an RV-10 FAQ, since we
> all get asked some of the same questions over and over again. If you
> have any contributions you'd like to see in an FAQ, write up the Q&A and
> email them to me offline....I'll try to compile an FAQ in whatever
> free time I can...and Bob is looking at putting some time into it
> as well.
>
> Thanks guys,
>
> Tim
>
--Shawn
40366
---------------------------------
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: OSH 2005 Photos |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
http://www.rv10wiki.com is up and running. Not too many contributions
yet, but then again it's only been up a week.
-Sean #40303
do not archive
Shawn Moon wrote:
> I had thought of this as well....even came up with how I would lay it
> out. But, I am a Windows guy so I don't know much about Linux yet. I
> had even checked and found out that RVWiki.com is available. My only
> other hesitation was whether anybody would use it or not. It would be
> impossible for just one or two people to make it a worth while resource.
>
> */Jim Combs <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>/* wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs"
>
> Wiki page would be great!
>
> Many will ask what is a Wiki page? - It's a web page that has an
> "edit" button at the bottom. Users - Anyone can edit the page to
> put up new information or ask questions. If someone wants to be
> bad and trashes the page, it can restored easily - No damage can
> be done!
>
> So having a wiki page would be great.
>
> Jim C
> #40192
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
> Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2005 11:24:24 -0400
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
>
>
> Maybe we could get Dan Reeves to host the Wiki . . . : )
>
> TDT
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:21 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
>
> Yeah, I've wondered about that myself. I don't know if
> I'm up for that right now though...but perhaps in the
> future. I have some small worries regarding the bandwidth
> that I could talk about more offline....like regarding
> where it's currently coming from. The website allows me
> to trim the photo size, and do what I can to keep it lean.
> The email group is good for text, but not so great for
> files. I'll have to educate myself a bit though...at this
> point I've only set up a wiki one time as a demo, and then
> never used it. Good idea though...and maybe we'll see it
> happen some time.
> Tim
>
> Do not archive
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
> >
> >
> > How about an RV-10 "Wiki"?
> >
> > TDT
> > 40025
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:44 AM
> > To: RV10
> > Subject: RV10-List: OSH 2005 Photos
> >
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson
> >
> > I'm beating my keyboard trying to get some photos out for everyone
> > from OSH 2005. So far, I've got some scattered around the site, but
> > here's a central list of some of the more recent stuff.
> >
> > http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/OSH2005/index.html
> >
> > I'm also working on the panel section so I can answer some
> questions and
> > bury that topic for a while...I'll post links
>
Message 17
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I'm wondering what others have come up with for mounting locations
for their AHRS. Crossbow says to mount them away from high
current wires, and from anything magnetic or moving and steel.
Preferrably on the longitudinal centerline, and as near to
the CG as possible.
Due to the controls and flap motors and things, there really isn't
a good location as far as I can tell that's near the floor on
centerline. Under the panel may be OK, but I worry about
electrical interference and effects. My first instinct is to
mount it in the common place....just behind the baggage wall.
But it would have to be up high. It should also be mounted
stiffly, so that floppy center support in the baggage area
is of limited help.
I could try to hang a shelf from angle AL riveted to the ceiling
at the front of the tailcone. That would for sure be do-able.
Don't know if GPS antennas would be a big problem mounted nearby...
I doubt it. Another option would be to build a shelf onto the
baggage wall itself, but I would think this might be too close
to baggage that may contain ferrous stuff.
Anyone who's gone before and has a good tip would be of great
assistance. I know Vic has mounted one...haven't heard where,
but other than that, I don't know who's yet flying who has
a remote AHRS system....GRT/Chelton.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: AHRS mounting |
My planned mounting is on a platform which begins at the first bulkhead aft
of the battery box and extends backwards about 12". It is mounted on the
longerons and the centerline is determined by a line from the tail to the
center of the forward end of the tailcone.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: RV10-List: AHRS mounting
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I'm wondering what others have come up with for mounting locations
> for their AHRS. Crossbow says to mount them away from high
> current wires, and from anything magnetic or moving and steel.
> Preferrably on the longitudinal centerline, and as near to
> the CG as possible.
>
> Due to the controls and flap motors and things, there really isn't
> a good location as far as I can tell that's near the floor on
> centerline. Under the panel may be OK, but I worry about
> electrical interference and effects. My first instinct is to
> mount it in the common place....just behind the baggage wall.
> But it would have to be up high. It should also be mounted
> stiffly, so that floppy center support in the baggage area
> is of limited help.
>
> I could try to hang a shelf from angle AL riveted to the ceiling
> at the front of the tailcone. That would for sure be do-able.
> Don't know if GPS antennas would be a big problem mounted nearby...
> I doubt it. Another option would be to build a shelf onto the
> baggage wall itself, but I would think this might be too close
> to baggage that may contain ferrous stuff.
>
> Anyone who's gone before and has a good tip would be of great
> assistance. I know Vic has mounted one...haven't heard where,
> but other than that, I don't know who's yet flying who has
> a remote AHRS system....GRT/Chelton.
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu" <wvu@ameritel.net>
Phil,
My clearance is about 1/8". I have a D4A5. Not being able to see the gap
from your picture I'm guessing yours is probably 1/16". I looked at the
Lord isolators carefully before mounting and there were no top or bottom
that I could distinguish. They appeared symetrical.
Incidentally, I thought a stock C4B5 once converted for injection is
redesignated as D4A5. Is there such an animal as IO-540 C4B5?
Anh
#141
(Cowling)
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
> Are you sure the "rubber" engine mounts are installed in the proper order.
> They install differently (reversed) top & bottom, the order/sequence could
> mean an angle change which could lift the pan/sump away from the mount.
???
> Note the word "could", I'm not sure of your mounts or the C4B5.
> KABONG HRII IO-540 J4A5 Do Not Archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Hall" <phil@asibuildings.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 3:07 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
>
>
> >I just hung my IO-540-C4B5 and as you can see there is no clearance
between
> > the pan and engine mount. Am I the only one to have this problem? Open
> > for suggestions.
> >
> > Phil
> > The Hangar Man
> >
>
>
------
>
>
> >
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5 |
<003c01c5a0ff$f990fae0$55826947@starnfamily>
<003201c5a153$88de6180$fefefe0a@thevusdenz>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
I was not clear on my post. The rubber mounts (or at least ours were) are
the same BUT they are installed in a different sequence depending on if they
are the top ones or the bottom ones. Mounts have a hard disk & a softer one
in each set of the four mounts. If I remember correctly (five+ yrs ago) the
"hard" ones are on the firewall side on top and engine side on the bottom.
The softer ones take up the shock and movement and are along for the
ride.etc. The harder ones are for the support and keep alignment etc. BUT
this was on Harmon's HRII engine mount. KABONG Do Not Archive IO540-J4A5
----- Original Message -----
From: "DejaVu" <wvu@ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu" <wvu@ameritel.net>
>
> Phil,
> My clearance is about 1/8". I have a D4A5. Not being able to see the gap
> from your picture I'm guessing yours is probably 1/16". I looked at the
> Lord isolators carefully before mounting and there were no top or bottom
> that I could distinguish. They appeared symetrical.
> Incidentally, I thought a stock C4B5 once converted for injection is
> redesignated as D4A5. Is there such an animal as IO-540 C4B5?
> Anh
> #141
> (Cowling)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 2:42 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
>
>
>>
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>>
>> Are you sure the "rubber" engine mounts are installed in the proper
>> order.
>> They install differently (reversed) top & bottom, the order/sequence
>> could
>> mean an angle change which could lift the pan/sump away from the mount.
> ???
>> Note the word "could", I'm not sure of your mounts or the C4B5.
>> KABONG HRII IO-540 J4A5 Do Not Archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Phil Hall" <phil@asibuildings.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2005 3:07 AM
>> Subject: RV10-List: engine mount & IO-540-C4B5
>>
>>
>> >I just hung my IO-540-C4B5 and as you can see there is no clearance
> between
>> > the pan and engine mount. Am I the only one to have this problem?
>> > Open
>> > for suggestions.
>> >
>> > Phil
>> > The Hangar Man
>> >
>>
>>
> ------
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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