Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:26 AM - Re: Antennas (Indran Chelvanayagam)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Antennas (Tim Olson)
3. 06:04 AM - Re: Antennas (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
4. 07:38 AM - FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Tim Olson)
5. 09:10 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
6. 09:35 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Tim Olson)
7. 09:39 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Dan Checkoway)
8. 09:49 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Sean Stephens)
9. 09:55 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Sean Stephens)
10. 10:10 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
11. 10:16 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Tim Olson)
12. 10:38 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
13. 10:52 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Dan Checkoway)
14. 10:56 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (John W. Cox)
15. 11:16 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
16. 11:18 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
17. 11:28 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (John Jessen)
18. 11:37 AM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Tim Olson)
19. 02:37 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Rene Felker)
20. 03:27 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Jeff Carpenter)
21. 03:54 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
22. 04:38 PM - 325HP (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
23. 04:44 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Tim Olson)
24. 04:51 PM - Re: 325HP (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
25. 05:10 PM - Re: 325HP (Mani Ravee)
26. 05:20 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (McGANN, Ron)
27. 05:50 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Mark Ritter)
28. 05:56 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (brian bollaert)
29. 06:22 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Sean Stephens)
30. 07:14 PM - Re: IO-540 questions (Tim Lewis)
31. 07:16 PM - Re: 325HP (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
32. 07:39 PM - Three bladed props (John Dunne)
33. 07:56 PM - Re: 325HP (Jim Beyer)
34. 08:04 PM - Re: ELT antenna (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
35. 08:47 PM - Parts missing and other rants (Rick)
36. 09:59 PM - Re: Parts missing and other rants (John Jessen)
37. 09:59 PM - Re: ELT antenna (Tim Olson)
38. 10:31 PM - Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Indran Chelvanayagam" <ichelva@netspace.net.au>
"Ear Buds" or other wired hands-free devices have actually been shown to
emit MORE radiation into the head than cell phones alone.
In any case, the brain is relatively resistant to radiation-induced DNA
damage, as most cells are not actively dividing.
The major cancer worry should be the skin, which is a very active tissue,
with many actively proliferating cells which are susceptible to radiation
damage.
A search of Medline failed to turn up any articles relating mobile phone use
with cancer. As for the effect on the brain, a study from New Zealand a few
years ago(can't find the reference just now) showed a very slight
improvement in mental arithmetic performance with cell phone radiation than
without (The subjects were unaware of whether the phone was transmitting
during testing). The authors explained it away as a statistical anomaly. The
best summary I could find is this:
1: Int J Radiat Biol. 2005 Mar;81(3):189-203. Related Articles, Links
Mobile phones, mobile phone base stations and cancer: a review.
Moulder JE, Foster KR, Erdreich LS, McNamee JP.
Radiation Oncology, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, WI 53226, USA.
jmoulder@mcw.edu
There have been reports in the media and claims in the courts that
radiofrequency (RF) emissions from mobile phones are a cause of cancer, and
there have been numerous public objections to the siting of mobile phone
base antennas because of a fear of cancer. This review summarizes the
current state of evidence concerning whether the RF energy used for wireless
communication might be carcinogenic. Relevant studies were identified by
searching MedLine with a combination of exposure and endpoint terms. This
was supplemented by a review of the over 1700 citations assembled by the
Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) International
Committee on Electromagnetic Safety as part of their updating of the IEEE
C95.1 RF energy safety guidelines. Where there were multiple studies,
preference was given to recent reports, to positive reports of effects and
to attempts to confirm such positive reports. Biophysical considerations
indicate that there is little theoretical basis for anticipating that RF
energy would have significant biological effects at the power levels used by
modern mobile phones and their base station antennas. The epidemiological
evidence for a causal association between cancer and RF energy is weak and
limited. Animal studies have provided no consistent evidence that exposure
to RF energy at non-thermal intensities causes or promotes cancer. Extensive
in vitro studies have found no consistent evidence of genotoxic potential,
but in vitro studies assessing the epigenetic potential of RF energy are
limited. Overall, a weight-of-evidence evaluation shows that the current
evidence for a causal association between cancer and exposure to RF energy
is weak and unconvincing. However, the existing epidemiology is limited and
the possibility of epigenetic effects has not been thoroughly evaluated, so
that additional research in those areas will be required for a more thorough
assessment of the possibility of a causal connection between cancer and the
RF energy from mobile telecommunications.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Antennas
--> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
jimc@mail.infra-read.com writes:
<<
And do we stop using a cell phone placed next to the brain because we are
concerned about RF energy? >>
YES!!!! That is why you should use an ear bud......if you use your cell
frequently!!!!
Do not archive
Message 2
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hey Michael S....
I'm thinking I'll put my Transponder antenna directly below the pilot
stick. I have 2 kids and don't want any more. Besides that,
it might help take the chill out of a Wisconsin winter flight. ;)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Indran Chelvanayagam wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Indran Chelvanayagam" <ichelva@netspace.net.au>
>
> "Ear Buds" or other wired hands-free devices have actually been shown to
> emit MORE radiation into the head than cell phones alone.
> In any case, the brain is relatively resistant to radiation-induced DNA
> damage, as most cells are not actively dividing.
>
> The major cancer worry should be the skin, which is a very active tissue,
> with many actively proliferating cells which are susceptible to radiation
> damage.
>
> A search of Medline failed to turn up any articles relating mobile phone use
> with cancer. As for the effect on the brain, a study from New Zealand a few
> years ago(can't find the reference just now) showed a very slight
> improvement in mental arithmetic performance with cell phone radiation than
> without (The subjects were unaware of whether the phone was transmitting
> during testing). The authors explained it away as a statistical anomaly. The
> best summary I could find is this:
>
>
> 1: Int J Radiat Biol. 2005 Mar;81(3):189-203. Related Articles, Links
>
>
> Mobile phones, mobile phone base stations and cancer: a review.
>
> Moulder JE, Foster KR, Erdreich LS, McNamee JP.
>
> Radiation Oncology, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, WI 53226, USA.
> jmoulder@mcw.edu
>
> There have been reports in the media and claims in the courts that
> radiofrequency (RF) emissions from mobile phones are a cause of cancer, and
> there have been numerous public objections to the siting of mobile phone
> base antennas because of a fear of cancer. This review summarizes the
> current state of evidence concerning whether the RF energy used for wireless
> communication might be carcinogenic. Relevant studies were identified by
> searching MedLine with a combination of exposure and endpoint terms. This
> was supplemented by a review of the over 1700 citations assembled by the
> Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) International
> Committee on Electromagnetic Safety as part of their updating of the IEEE
> C95.1 RF energy safety guidelines. Where there were multiple studies,
> preference was given to recent reports, to positive reports of effects and
> to attempts to confirm such positive reports. Biophysical considerations
> indicate that there is little theoretical basis for anticipating that RF
> energy would have significant biological effects at the power levels used by
> modern mobile phones and their base station antennas. The epidemiological
> evidence for a causal association between cancer and RF energy is weak and
> limited. Animal studies have provided no consistent evidence that exposure
> to RF energy at non-thermal intensities causes or promotes cancer. Extensive
> in vitro studies have found no consistent evidence of genotoxic potential,
> but in vitro studies assessing the epigenetic potential of RF energy are
> limited. Overall, a weight-of-evidence evaluation shows that the current
> evidence for a causal association between cancer and exposure to RF energy
> is weak and unconvincing. However, the existing epidemiology is limited and
> the possibility of epigenetic effects has not been thoroughly evaluated, so
> that additional research in those areas will be required for a more thorough
> assessment of the possibility of a causal connection between cancer and the
> RF energy from mobile telecommunications.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 7:20 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Antennas
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
>
> jimc@mail.infra-read.com writes:
> <<
> And do we stop using a cell phone placed next to the brain because we are
> concerned about RF energy? >>
>
> YES!!!! That is why you should use an ear bud......if you use your cell
> frequently!!!!
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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Sweet! I wonder if I put a little plexi plate right next to the transponder antenna
I can get some of that to come in and then bounce around on the inside
like a microwave oven. If I get cold I can just hit ident!
LMAO
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Antennas
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hey Michael S....
I'm thinking I'll put my Transponder antenna directly below the pilot stick. I
have 2 kids and don't want any more. Besides that, it might help take the chill
out of a Wisconsin winter flight. ;)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Indran Chelvanayagam wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Indran Chelvanayagam"
> --> <ichelva@netspace.net.au>
>
> "Ear Buds" or other wired hands-free devices have actually been shown
> to emit MORE radiation into the head than cell phones alone.
> In any case, the brain is relatively resistant to radiation-induced
> DNA damage, as most cells are not actively dividing.
>
> The major cancer worry should be the skin, which is a very active
> tissue, with many actively proliferating cells which are susceptible
> to radiation damage.
>
> A search of Medline failed to turn up any articles relating mobile
> phone use with cancer. As for the effect on the brain, a study from
> New Zealand a few years ago(can't find the reference just now) showed
> a very slight improvement in mental arithmetic performance with cell
> phone radiation than without (The subjects were unaware of whether the
> phone was transmitting during testing). The authors explained it away
> as a statistical anomaly. The best summary I could find is this:
>
>
> 1: Int J Radiat Biol. 2005 Mar;81(3):189-203. Related Articles, Links
>
>
> Mobile phones, mobile phone base stations and cancer: a review.
>
> Moulder JE, Foster KR, Erdreich LS, McNamee JP.
>
> Radiation Oncology, Medical College of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, WI 53226, USA.
> jmoulder@mcw.edu
>
> There have been reports in the media and claims in the courts that
> radiofrequency (RF) emissions from mobile phones are a cause of
> cancer, and there have been numerous public objections to the siting
> of mobile phone base antennas because of a fear of cancer. This review
> summarizes the current state of evidence concerning whether the RF
> energy used for wireless communication might be carcinogenic. Relevant
> studies were identified by searching MedLine with a combination of
> exposure and endpoint terms. This was supplemented by a review of the
> over 1700 citations assembled by the Institute of Electrical and
> Electronics Engineers (IEEE) International Committee on
> Electromagnetic Safety as part of their updating of the IEEE
> C95.1 RF energy safety guidelines. Where there were multiple studies,
> preference was given to recent reports, to positive reports of effects
> and to attempts to confirm such positive reports. Biophysical
> considerations indicate that there is little theoretical basis for
> anticipating that RF energy would have significant biological effects
> at the power levels used by modern mobile phones and their base
> station antennas. The epidemiological evidence for a causal
> association between cancer and RF energy is weak and limited. Animal
> studies have provided no consistent evidence that exposure to RF
> energy at non-thermal intensities causes or promotes cancer. Extensive
> in vitro studies have found no consistent evidence of genotoxic
> potential, but in vitro studies assessing the epigenetic potential of
> RF energy are limited. Overall, a weight-of-evidence evaluation shows
> that the current evidence for a causal association between cancer and
> exposure to RF energy is weak and unconvincing. However, the existing
> epidemiology is limited and the possibility of epigenetic effects has
> not been thoroughly evaluated, so that additional research in those
> areas will be required for a more thorough assessment of the possibility of a
causal connection between cancer and the RF energy from mobile telecommunications.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2005 7:20 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Antennas
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
>
> jimc@mail.infra-read.com writes:
> <<
> And do we stop using a cell phone placed next to the brain because we
> are concerned about RF energy? >>
>
> YES!!!! That is why you should use an ear bud......if you use your cell
> frequently!!!!
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some
of them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm
trying to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck
your inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course,
the only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along,
because they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of
your shorted hardware without asking.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery
box enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Message 5
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no reason they should
be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the door. I'm still waiting
on a backordered couple of bolts from the wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning
it or anything, I had to call to find out where it was when the wing kit
arrived. When I checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted
I needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse. Nice.
I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit shipment so far and
it only sounds like it gets worse.
Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple days ago has,
once again, not shipped for any reason (their comment, not mine). If it would
have even shipped in the first two days I would have had it for the weekend.
I explained to them that I just don't get how they can sit on orders for days
but the only comment was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I
will bug them daily when I order something.
Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the customer service
side could really use some work.
Rant off.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing LE's
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing parts I've found
recently, so I updated my page to list some of them. I'm sure there's more
than what I have listed, but I'm trying to keep a good list for you to refer
to so you can doublecheck your inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been
changed from
523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the only way you'll
ever know that is if we pass the info along, because they're sure not going
to suddenly ship you a package of your shorted hardware without asking.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the engine if I hadn't
anticipated some missing bolts.
I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box enlargement for
the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
You're not alone. Last week (Monday I believe) I ordered some of those
missing parts from Van's. I hedged my bet on their ability to get it
out the door and ordered all 4 engine mount bolts from Aircraft
Spruce also (actually, I haven't even told Van's about THOSE yet),
and even though I'm not close to California or Georgia, Aircraft
spruce came through by Friday. I still don't have my Van's order
yet, unless it comes today. So, these days I try to only order
things from Van's that either they owe me, or I have a good reason
to get from them. Everything else comes from places like ACS where
I know the order will be processed and delivered timely. I've found
they are a great source of the nuts/bolts/washers/screws and other
misc. items.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10
DO NOT ARCHIVE
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no reason
> they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the door.
> I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the wing kit.
> They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had to call to find out
> where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I checked on it a month
> later I got the comment that they doubted I needed them anyway as they
> are for the wing attach to the fuse. Nice. I've come up short on at
> least a couple things in each kit shipment so far and it only sounds
> like it gets worse.
>
> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple days
> ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their comment, not
> mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two days I would have
> had it for the weekend. I explained to them that I just don't get how
> they can sit on orders for days but the only comment was that's just the
> way it is. From now on I think I will bug them daily when I order
> something.
>
> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
> customer service side could really use some work.
>
> Rant off.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing parts
> I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of them. I'm
> sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying to keep a good
> list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your inventory. In at
> least one case, the bag has been changed from
> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your shorted
> hardware without asking.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>
> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the engine
> if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>
>
> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to dateAny RV builder who doesn't have
an arsenal of spare bolts, washers, nuts, nutplates, screws, adel clamps, snap
bushings, cotter pins, AN fittings, wire, terminals, and all sorts of other
assorted hardware is remiss imho. If you're relying on *just* what the kit
provides, then you're not preparing yourself to maintain the plane long term anyway.
Spruce sells hardware assortments. Do yourself a favor and get some extra hardware.
You're going to be maintaining this plane in the long run, right? Remember,
you are a "shop" now.
If Van's shorts you stuff, they will cover you if you claim it shortly after receiving
the kit. If missing a bolt or two is really keeping you from progressing,
then get yourself some extra hardware -- you can still hit Van's up for what
they shorted you on -- but at least you can keep moving on.
If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts and a cotter
pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no reason they should
be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the door. I'm still waiting
on a backordered couple of bolts from the wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning
it or anything, I had to call to find out where it was when the wing
kit arrived. When I checked on it a month later I got the comment that they
doubted I needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse. Nice.
I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit shipment so far
and it only sounds like it gets worse.
Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple days ago has,
once again, not shipped for any reason (their comment, not mine). If it
would have even shipped in the first two days I would have had it for the weekend.
I explained to them that I just don't get how they can sit on orders for
days but the only comment was that's just the way it is. From now on I think
I will bug them daily when I order something.
Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the customer
service side could really use some work.
Rant off.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing LE's
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
To: RV10
Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing parts I've found
recently, so I updated my page to list some of them. I'm sure there's more
than what I have listed, but I'm trying to keep a good list for you to refer
to so you can doublecheck your inventory. In at least one case, the bag has
been changed from
523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the only way
you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because they're sure not
going to suddenly ship you a package of your shorted hardware without asking.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the engine if I
hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box enlargement
for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
RV10-List Email Forum -
bsp;
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I feel all your pain also.
I've gotten to the point where I do not even call Van's for
nuts/bolts/washers/screws. It just takes to long to get them. I am
fortunate that I have a place a few miles from my house that sells AN
hardware. If that wasn't the case, I'd be even more upset.
Not just AN hardware, but many times you are short rivets also.
MK-319-BS and AN426AD3-3.5 seem to always be short. Do yourself a favor
and get extras of those ahead of time also. There's no way I'd have had
enough 3.5s to finish the wing skins.
-Sean #40303
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> You're not alone. Last week (Monday I believe) I ordered some of those
> missing parts from Van's. I hedged my bet on their ability to get it
> out the door and ordered all 4 engine mount bolts from Aircraft
> Spruce also (actually, I haven't even told Van's about THOSE yet),
> and even though I'm not close to California or Georgia, Aircraft
> spruce came through by Friday. I still don't have my Van's order
> yet, unless it comes today. So, these days I try to only order
> things from Van's that either they owe me, or I have a good reason
> to get from them. Everything else comes from places like ACS where
> I know the order will be processed and delivered timely. I've found
> they are a great source of the nuts/bolts/washers/screws and other
> misc. items.
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no reason
>> they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the
>> door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the
>> wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had to
>> call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
>> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
>> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
>> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
>> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>>
>> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
>> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their comment,
>> not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two days I
>> would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that I just
>> don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only comment
>> was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will bug them
>> daily when I order something.
>>
>> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
>> customer service side could really use some work.
>>
>> Rant off.
>>
>> Michael Sausen
>> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
>> To: RV10
>> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
>> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
>> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
>> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
>> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
>> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
>> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
>> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your shorted
>> hardware without asking.
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>>
>> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
>> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>>
>>
>> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
>> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>
>>
>>
>> ====================================
>> RV10-List Email Forum -
>> bsp;
>> ====================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
Have to respectfully disagree to some extent.
I agree that a builder should "eventually" have "shop hardware" around.
But, when I receive the wing kit, I expect to have enough MK-319-BS
rivets to finish the flaps (shorted about 40). I also expect to receive
enough AN426AD3-3.5 rivets to finish all the skins (shorted who knows
how many 100s).
Not saying Van's is a "bad manufacturer", just saying their quality
control checks prior to shipping kits and also their customer service
needs a little work, that's all. If expecting the required
hardware/rivets to assemble any given airframe kit makes me spoiled,
then I guess I am. Along with many others.
-Sean #40303
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> Any RV builder who doesn't have an arsenal of spare bolts, washers,
> nuts, nutplates, screws, adel clamps, snap bushings, cotter pins, AN
> fittings, wire, terminals, and all sorts of other assorted hardware is
> remiss imho. If you're relying on *just* what the kit provides, then
> you're not preparing yourself to maintain the plane long term anyway.
>
> Spruce sells hardware assortments. Do yourself a favor and get some
> extra hardware. You're going to be maintaining this plane in the long
> run, right? Remember, you are a "shop" now.
>
> If Van's shorts you stuff, they will cover you if you claim it shortly
> after receiving the kit. If missing a bolt or two is really keeping
> you from progressing, then get yourself some extra hardware -- you can
> still hit Van's up for what they shorted you on -- but at least you
> can keep moving on.
>
> If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts
> and a cotter pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:05 AM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no
> reason they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's
> out the door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts
> from the wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything,
> I had to call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived.
> When I checked on it a month later I got the comment that they
> doubted I needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to
> the fuse. Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things
> in each kit shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>
> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their
> comment, not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first
> two days I would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them
> that I just don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the
> only comment was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I
> will bug them daily when I order something.
>
> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said,
> the customer service side could really use some work.
>
> Rant off.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm
> trying to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can
> doublecheck your inventory. In at least one case, the bag has
> been changed from
> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course,
> the only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along,
> because they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of
> your shorted hardware without asking.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>
> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>
>
> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Like others I've also had a few missing parts. Unlike others, when I've
called Van's about it they've been very responsive. I decided early on
that I wanted an assortment of spare rivets and bolts "just because".
I've found myself several times substituting a bolt to be slightly
shorter or longer, using slightly larger snap bushings (wing ribs),
needing an oops rivet, mounting AP servos, etc. Having a supply of
various spare hardware on hand has made these situations totally
non-events! If there's a downside to having extra rivets, bolts,
washers, etc. on hand it's that I won't necessarily know that I've been
shorted some.
Do yourself a favor and just purchase some extra common hardware - it
will save a lot of aggravation down the road. As a starting point I'd
suggest some -3 rivets of common lengths (3.5, 4, 4.5), some AN960-10 &
-10L washers, some #10 locking nuts and some LP4-3 pulled rivets. All
of the above will cost much less than the aspirin and/or beer that it
will take if you don't have them!
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I feel all your pain also.
I've gotten to the point where I do not even call Van's for
nuts/bolts/washers/screws. It just takes to long to get them. I am
fortunate that I have a place a few miles from my house that sells AN
hardware. If that wasn't the case, I'd be even more upset.
Not just AN hardware, but many times you are short rivets also.
MK-319-BS and AN426AD3-3.5 seem to always be short. Do yourself a favor
and get extras of those ahead of time also. There's no way I'd have had
enough 3.5s to finish the wing skins.
-Sean #40303
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> You're not alone. Last week (Monday I believe) I ordered some of those
> missing parts from Van's. I hedged my bet on their ability to get it
> out the door and ordered all 4 engine mount bolts from Aircraft
> Spruce also (actually, I haven't even told Van's about THOSE yet),
> and even though I'm not close to California or Georgia, Aircraft
> spruce came through by Friday. I still don't have my Van's order
> yet, unless it comes today. So, these days I try to only order
> things from Van's that either they owe me, or I have a good reason
> to get from them. Everything else comes from places like ACS where
> I know the order will be processed and delivered timely. I've found
> they are a great source of the nuts/bolts/washers/screws and other
> misc. items.
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no reason
>> they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the
>> door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the
>> wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had to
>> call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
>> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
>> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
>> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
>> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>>
>> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
>> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their comment,
>> not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two days I
>> would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that I just
>> don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only comment
>> was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will bug them
>> daily when I order something.
>>
>> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
>> customer service side could really use some work.
>>
>> Rant off.
>>
>> Michael Sausen
>> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
>> To: RV10
>> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
>> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
>> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
>> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
>> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
>> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
>> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
>> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your shorted
>> hardware without asking.
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>>
>> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
>> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>>
>>
>> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
>> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>
>>
>>
>> ====================================
>> RV10-List Email Forum -
>> bsp;
>> ====================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Oh believe me, every time they short me a part, and sometimes
before they short me, I order many more spares. That's
real practical for AN3 bolts/nuts/washers, and kind of practical
for AN4 nuts/washers/bolts. That said, you're missing the point
here. How many AN7-26 bolts for mounting an engine is a person
supposed to buy and have on hand? And, since we're going to
blow a few hundred on some spare, rarely used hardware,
should they order AN7-10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28 bolts in quantities
of at least 4 each, so when they get to the engine mount they
just happen to have AN7-26 bolts on hand? Mike's wing attach
bolts aren't just simple and cheap bolts, and a fair of the parts
people are being shorted are not things people would keep as
spares on hand. I have filled my box with an assortment of
AN3,4,5,6,7,and 8 nuts and washers though, since you don't
have to worry about bolt lengths there.
I found it pretty interesting actually, when I first ordered
my kit, I told the girl at Van's that I wanted to order some
spare hardware, rivets, nuts, bolts, and things like that,
in case I was short. She told me I didn't need to worry about
that because I would have everything I needed with the kit.
Looking back, that statement itself had no chance of being
true, especially when you don't go 100% to plans and add
brackets and mountings.
I don't think we're being "spoiled puppies" though when we
expect to have the proper hardware show up with the kit
that we paid for. I actually have a fair assortment of
blue AN fittings too, even at a few buck each...but still,
when it came to actually mount the engine, I didn't have any
AN816-8D sized fittings that I was shorted.
Also, nobody said they were a "bad kit manufacturer"...but,
their ability to deliver on parts for the -10 is definitely
not in the "worlds class" category.
I'll try to add a section on the page soon that goes into
recommended spare hardware. I've found it extrememly
helpful to keep a pile of CS4-4, LP4-3, MK319-BS rivets,
ALL of the AN470 and AN426 AD3&4 rivets, Ooops rivets,
nutplates of all sizes, least 4 of each AN3 bolts from
lengths -3 thru -21, a couple of sizes of AN4 bolts,
a pile of nyloc nuts in all sizes, and some AN310 and other
various all-metal and low-profile locknuts in various
sizes. I myself now have probably 120 compartments
in some boxes filled with rivets and various part,
and another 100+ compartments filled with assorted screws,
nuts, washers, and bolts. The worst part is that
a new builder might not have any clue as to what sizes and
quantities would be a good idea to keep around. I try
to err on the side that keeps me driving cheap vehicles,
and just spend the cash.
I'm not looking forward to how many possible items were
left out of the FWF kit. There's too many various fittings
required there...that's why I'm keeping a list, in hopes
that other builders can find out about these possible
shortages before they get to that step.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> Any RV builder who doesn't have an arsenal of spare bolts, washers,
> nuts, nutplates, screws, adel clamps, snap bushings, cotter pins, AN
> fittings, wire, terminals, and all sorts of other assorted hardware is
> remiss imho. If you're relying on *just* what the kit provides, then
> you're not preparing yourself to maintain the plane long term anyway.
>
> Spruce sells hardware assortments. Do yourself a favor and get some
> extra hardware. You're going to be maintaining this plane in the long
> run, right? Remember, you are a "shop" now.
>
> If Van's shorts you stuff, they will cover you if you claim it shortly
> after receiving the kit. If missing a bolt or two is really keeping you
> from progressing, then get yourself some extra hardware -- you can still
> hit Van's up for what they shorted you on -- but at least you can keep
> moving on.
>
> If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts
> and a cotter pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:05 AM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no
> reason they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out
> the door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from
> the wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had
> to call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>
> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their
> comment, not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two
> days I would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that
> I just don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only
> comment was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will
> bug them daily when I order something.
>
> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
> customer service side could really use some work.
>
> Rant off.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your
> shorted hardware without asking.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>
> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>
>
> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
Dan,
I completely agree on the spare bolts and stuff. I ordered one of the AS hardware
kit's and an assortment of rivets and stuff a long time ago. That being
said, don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say I thought they were a "bad kit
manufacturer" but I did say their customer service leaves a lot of room for
improvement.
I will admit that the age of the Internet has turned me into a "I expect things
now" type of consumer but I am also willing to be a bit flexible. It's when
I get snipish remarks and my orders don't ship until I call several days later
to follow up is when I get annoyed. This has happened several times. I think
we have all called in to ask a question or check on something and we have
gotten back a your a dumba$$ type of remark.
For instance, just today I reiterated that I would like a tracking number sent
to me when the order ships. I have a rather flakey FedEx guy that sometimes
decides he doesn't want to come all the way out by me and makes a comment that
I wasn't home for delivery. Well that doesn't jive as I work from home so I
watch shipments and call to complain whenever he does that. Well Van's called
me back (good service) and said I won't get a tracking number this time, or
last time, because I didn't order it online. I explained that both times I specifically
asked for the tracking number to be sent to me and was told no problem.
I mean come on, a joe blow small one man operation can figure out how to
have a tracking number sent automatically when something is shipped. That is
how customer service should work, I complain about a problem and the problem
is slowly fixed. Not an oh well attitude.
So don't turn this around on me saying that it's my fault for not having an inventory
of parts just in case Van's screws up. I am Van's customer and as a
consumer that is spending a good deal of money with them I do expect reasonable
customer service, just as my clients expect and deserve from me. When a customer
becomes a nuisance, the problem generally fixes itself by the customer going
away (just as Tim and Sean now go to AS for general parts). Van's has always
had the luxury of producing outstanding designs and fairly good kits which
allowed them to be a bit lax in other areas. I am certainly not the first person
to have this view. Now note that no where in this, or the previous post,
did I say their service was bad, I just commented it needs to be improved.
And Dan, don't take this email the wrong way, I'm not bitching at you, well maybe
a little for the "bad kit manufacturer" comment, but I just want to make sure
I'm clear on MY point of view. ;-)
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing LE's
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
Any RV builder who doesn't have an arsenal of spare bolts, washers, nuts, nutplates,
screws, adel clamps, snap bushings, cotter pins, AN fittings, wire, terminals,
and all sorts of other assorted hardware is remiss imho. If you're relying
on *just* what the kit provides, then you're not preparing yourself to maintain
the plane long term anyway.
Spruce sells hardware assortments. Do yourself a favor and get some extra hardware.
You're going to be maintaining this plane in the long run, right? Remember,
you are a "shop" now.
If Van's shorts you stuff, they will cover you if you claim it shortly after receiving
the kit. If missing a bolt or two is really keeping you from progressing,
then get yourself some extra hardware -- you can still hit Van's up for what
they shorted you on -- but at least you can keep moving on.
If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts and a cotter
pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no reason they
should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the door. I'm still
waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the wing kit. They didn't bother
mentioning it or anything, I had to call to find out where it was when the
wing kit arrived. When I checked on it a month later I got the comment that
they doubted I needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit shipment
so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
=09
Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple days
ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their comment, not mine).
If it would have even shipped in the first two days I would have had it for the
weekend. I explained to them that I just don't get how they can sit on orders
for days but the only comment was that's just the way it is. From now on I
think I will bug them daily when I order something.
=09
Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the customer
service side could really use some work.
=09
Rant off.
=09
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing LE's
=09
Do not archive
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
To: RV10
Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
=09
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
=09
I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing parts
I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of them. I'm sure there's
more than what I have listed, but I'm trying to keep a good list for you to
refer to so you can doublecheck your inventory. In at least one case, the bag
has been changed from
523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the only
way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because they're sure
not going to suddenly ship you a package of your shorted hardware without asking.
=09
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
=09
Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the engine
if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
=09
=09
I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box enlargement
for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
=09
Tim
=09
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
=09
=09
=09
bsp;
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> here. How many AN7-26 bolts for mounting an engine is a person
> supposed to buy and have on hand? And, since we're going to
That sucks. Didn't realize it was stuff like engine mount bolts or wing
bolts.
> I don't think we're being "spoiled puppies" though when we
Definitely not.
> Also, nobody said they were a "bad kit manufacturer"...but,
> their ability to deliver on parts for the -10 is definitely
> not in the "worlds class" category.
Although my experience with Van's is that during the winter (especially
around inventory time) they tend to be reeeeally slow to ship out little
piddly orders, they were always responsive when I had to call in missing
stuff. Half the time I didn't bother...regardless of whether I was
"entitled" to it or not. I just ordered stuff from Spruce and had it the
next day. Path of least resistance at the time.
Two weeks ago I placed an order from Van's for 50 K1100-06 nutplates, and I
was kind of shocked when I got the order like 3 business days later. It's
usually not that quick.
Anyway, I agree that Van's sometimes leaves something to be desired in the
"slow shipping" dept. But it seems to me that a thorough inventory of your
kit as soon as you receive it (something I'm guilty of not always doing)
would preclude most of the "now I need to wait for a shipment to arrive"
issues down the road. Seems like engine or wing bolts would be something
you'd inventory right away.
If slow shipping and a few missing parts are Van's worst traits, then we're
in good shape. ;-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Tim, your efforts at posting to your webpage the "Lists" is equally as
valuable as Dan's build process narrative and stills, along with his
inflight videos, on his. I second your comments that it is
inconceivable for builders to accept a pattern of consistent shortage of
listed products on the various kits...once paid. Complacency shows
itself in pilot skills as well.
Knowing in advance the range of products "frequently used and consumed"
is a valuable service from both yourself and Dan's web. Input from
those who are done with the 10 might project a compelling picture. Just
as Dan's Conditional Inspection showed weak points and parts needing
attention.
Settling for poor customer service or slow order fulfillment doesn't cut
it anywhere in aviation. Wouldn't it be shocking if with an early
Monday morning call they asked, "Do you need this order received by this
weekend, or would you like to go Brown Label?"
Maybe Ken Scott is in charge of that department and something could be
said;-)?
Thanks,
John - KUAO
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I don't think we're being "spoiled puppies" though when we
expect to have the proper hardware show up with the kit
that we paid for. I actually have a fair assortment of
blue AN fittings too, even at a few buck each...but still,
when it came to actually mount the engine, I didn't have any
AN816-8D sized fittings that I was shorted.
I'm not looking forward to how many possible items were
left out of the FWF kit. There's too many various fittings
required there...that's why I'm keeping a list, in hopes
that other builders can find out about these possible
shortages before they get to that step.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts
> and a cotter pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
I need to supplement my earlier statements by saying that I have also
been shorted parts that are not available via other channels. In those
instances Van's has been quick to correct, but there's still the hassle
and delay of having to deal with it. My recollection is that my tail
kit was complete but the wings and fuselage were another story. I wrote
it off at the time as due to very early versions of the kits, it sounds
like some of the problems may have been corrected but others still
exist. I've also had an issue of parts being labeled incorrectly,
meaning that you can't even catch the error during inventory!
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I don't think we're being "spoiled puppies" though when we
expect to have the proper hardware show up with the kit
that we paid for. I actually have a fair assortment of
blue AN fittings too, even at a few buck each...but still,
when it came to actually mount the engine, I didn't have any
AN816-8D sized fittings that I was shorted.
I'm not looking forward to how many possible items were
left out of the FWF kit. There's too many various fittings
required there...that's why I'm keeping a list, in hopes
that other builders can find out about these possible
shortages before they get to that step.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts
> and a cotter pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
Funny thing, Ken Scott was who took my most recent order! :-D
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Tim, your efforts at posting to your webpage the "Lists" is equally as valuable
as Dan's build process narrative and stills, along with his inflight videos,
on his. I second your comments that it is inconceivable for builders to accept
a pattern of consistent shortage of listed products on the various kits...once
paid. Complacency shows itself in pilot skills as well.
Knowing in advance the range of products "frequently used and consumed"
is a valuable service from both yourself and Dan's web. Input from those who are
done with the 10 might project a compelling picture. Just as Dan's Conditional
Inspection showed weak points and parts needing attention.
Settling for poor customer service or slow order fulfillment doesn't cut it anywhere
in aviation. Wouldn't it be shocking if with an early Monday morning call
they asked, "Do you need this order received by this weekend, or would you
like to go Brown Label?"
Maybe Ken Scott is in charge of that department and something could be said;-)?
Thanks,
John - KUAO
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I don't think we're being "spoiled puppies" though when we expect to have the proper
hardware show up with the kit that we paid for. I actually have a fair
assortment of blue AN fittings too, even at a few buck each...but still, when
it came to actually mount the engine, I didn't have any AN816-8D sized fittings
that I was shorted.
I'm not looking forward to how many possible items were left out of the FWF kit.
There's too many various fittings required there...that's why I'm keeping a
list, in hopes that other builders can find out about these possible shortages
before they get to that step.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts
> and a cotter pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Yikes!
Several years ago when I began the tail of an RV-7 and was at the same time
doing consulting with the Glasair folks, I noticed the difference in quality
control, and I wondered aloud about this and why it was that Van's couldn't
get their act together. My complaints at the time got nowhere with listers.
Note that the technique used by Glasair is to bubble wrap parts per step in
the plans. Makes for a great way to quality control and also makes for a
more expensive kit.
Dan's response comes in part from the general RV list where several folks
are complaining about the same lack of quality control. He is also coming
from the position of a builder who has gone through it before and is
somewhat comfortable about the "style" of Van's. Meaning, why not use paper
bags and scoop in the rivets by the pound, rather than quality control and
bubble wrap?
Having visited in detail with almost all the kit plane manufactures and
consulted with some, I can tell you one thing. Each has its own culture.
Van's definitely has one that is rooted in a sense of the old EAA. Let's do
this as a hobby and as cheaply as we can. Let's create the best design that
we can for a reasonable price, while at the same time keeping the pilots as
safe as possible given the performance high (on both the slow and fast ends
of the scale). Let's invest in those areas that help with building and
safety, and if we can do this at a great cost, then we can make the money to
provide jobs and security for the folks in Aurora, and make the profit that
one should make, too. But do so in a style that we feel comfortable with.
Could Van's divert some of its talent to making sure that you have enough
nuts and bolts, rather than focus on the new projects they have going?
Sure. And, I, for one, think they should. Do they have to? No. Is their
image going to suffer? No. They have that "everyman" funky image and are
priced accordingly, as opposed to Lancair or even Glasair (although the
latter is now more an image of back country as opposed to speed and
glamour). Why change? It's working...
The reasons I think that Van's should have higher quality control (like the
individual bubble wrap or even fill the bags more carefully, thus hiring a
couple more people to put in the time or check how the process is done in
the first place) are the following:
1. It's always about safety. If I were Van's I'd want to know that someone
as stupid as myself wouldn't think I could go out to the local HD and buy an
off the shelf bolt for my engine mount. I would want to make sure, now that
everything else is almost automated in their production facility, that the
builder had the right connectors and other parts and thus as much as
possible make sure the plane can be put together by anyone who buys the kit.
Makes me a little nervous about what else in the kit might be wrong, such as
those welded nuts that look like they'd last two seconds. They are relying
too much, I think, on the amazing fellowship of builders to bail them out.
2. It's also about a respect for the international business that they are
engaged in. Lack of parts for me is nothing. Sure I can order up from ACS
and pay the shipping, but I can also simply drive over to Van's and pick up
the missing hardware at their counter. It's worse for someone in Australia
or England or anywhere where it involves depending upon their service
department to ship and ship in an expedient manner. Especially when the
part turns up missing on Friday night and you had scheduled yourself to be
working on the kit all day Saturday and Sunday.
3. Pride. They really don't have to make any changes, but I would think
that they would want to, given the general attitude I've noticed at the
shop. (Anyone ever thought a test ride from them is like walking into (at
least with one person) a BMW dealer who cannot believe you aren't already a
true believer. Why would you ever ask questions or doubt anything?)
Anyway. It's a great kit. A lot of good people. But, I would like to see
them make an effort in the next year to get the quality control upgraded.
What would that cost? Not sure. Would it be worth the cost? I think so.
I'm certainly not going to spend my time counting the rivets in the bags,
but I would hope they would make sure I had more than I needed. Rivets are
cheap, even if dolled out in the quantities they do. I will, however, spend
my time counting the bolts and everything else. To me, I'd rather spend a
few more bucks to have to spend less time counting. Seems like a bandage
they put into the plans to make up for something not going right at the
shop.
John Jessen
40328 --> HS
3.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Oh believe me, every time they short me a part, and sometimes before they
short me, I order many more spares. That's real practical for AN3
bolts/nuts/washers, and kind of practical
for AN4 nuts/washers/bolts. That said, you're missing the point
here. How many AN7-26 bolts for mounting an engine is a person
supposed to buy and have on hand? And, since we're going to
blow a few hundred on some spare, rarely used hardware, should they order
AN7-10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28 bolts in quantities of at least 4 each, so
when they get to the engine mount they just happen to have AN7-26 bolts on
hand? Mike's wing attach bolts aren't just simple and cheap bolts, and a
fair of the parts people are being shorted are not things people would keep
as spares on hand. I have filled my box with an assortment of
AN3,4,5,6,7,and 8 nuts and washers though, since you don't have to worry
about bolt lengths there.
I found it pretty interesting actually, when I first ordered my kit, I told
the girl at Van's that I wanted to order some spare hardware, rivets, nuts,
bolts, and things like that, in case I was short. She told me I didn't need
to worry about that because I would have everything I needed with the kit.
Looking back, that statement itself had no chance of being true, especially
when you don't go 100% to plans and add brackets and mountings.
I don't think we're being "spoiled puppies" though when we expect to have
the proper hardware show up with the kit that we paid for. I actually have
a fair assortment of blue AN fittings too, even at a few buck each...but
still, when it came to actually mount the engine, I didn't have any AN816-8D
sized fittings that I was shorted.
Also, nobody said they were a "bad kit manufacturer"...but, their ability to
deliver on parts for the -10 is definitely not in the "worlds class"
category.
I'll try to add a section on the page soon that goes into recommended spare
hardware. I've found it extrememly helpful to keep a pile of CS4-4, LP4-3,
MK319-BS rivets, ALL of the AN470 and AN426 AD3&4 rivets, Ooops rivets,
nutplates of all sizes, least 4 of each AN3 bolts from lengths -3 thru -21,
a couple of sizes of AN4 bolts, a pile of nyloc nuts in all sizes, and some
AN310 and other various all-metal and low-profile locknuts in various
sizes. I myself now have probably 120 compartments
in some boxes filled with rivets and various part, and another 100+
compartments filled with assorted screws,
nuts, washers, and bolts. The worst part is that
a new builder might not have any clue as to what sizes and quantities would
be a good idea to keep around. I try to err on the side that keeps me
driving cheap vehicles, and just spend the cash.
I'm not looking forward to how many possible items were left out of the FWF
kit. There's too many various fittings required there...that's why I'm
keeping a list, in hopes that other builders can find out about these
possible shortages before they get to that step.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> Any RV builder who doesn't have an arsenal of spare bolts, washers,
> nuts, nutplates, screws, adel clamps, snap bushings, cotter pins, AN
> fittings, wire, terminals, and all sorts of other assorted hardware is
> remiss imho. If you're relying on *just* what the kit provides, then
> you're not preparing yourself to maintain the plane long term anyway.
>
> Spruce sells hardware assortments. Do yourself a favor and get some
> extra hardware. You're going to be maintaining this plane in the long
> run, right? Remember, you are a "shop" now.
>
> If Van's shorts you stuff, they will cover you if you claim it shortly
> after receiving the kit. If missing a bolt or two is really keeping
> you from progressing, then get yourself some extra hardware -- you can
> still hit Van's up for what they shorted you on -- but at least you
> can keep moving on.
>
> If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts
> and a cotter pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:05 AM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no
> reason they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out
> the door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from
> the wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had
> to call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>
> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their
> comment, not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two
> days I would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that
> I just don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only
> comment was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will
> bug them daily when I order something.
>
> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
> customer service side could really use some work.
>
> Rant off.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your
> shorted hardware without asking.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>
> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>
>
> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
<Snipped for brevity>
>I just ordered stuff from Spruce and had it
> the next day. Path of least resistance at the time.
>
Now that is something I wish I had...1 day shipping
from some major supplier. I guess that's what sucks about
living up here in Wisconsin. Minneapolis has places that
would stock hardware, but nothing at reasonable prices like
Spruce.
> Two weeks ago I placed an order from Van's for 50 K1100-06 nutplates,
> and I was kind of shocked when I got the order like 3 business days
> later. It's usually not that quick.
>
I find that I sometimes luck out if I order on a Monday and request
USPS shipping...at least that arrives Saturday for free.
> Anyway, I agree that Van's sometimes leaves something to be desired in
> the "slow shipping" dept. But it seems to me that a thorough inventory
> of your kit as soon as you receive it (something I'm guilty of not
> always doing) would preclude most of the "now I need to wait for a
> shipment to arrive" issues down the road. Seems like engine or wing
> bolts would be something you'd inventory right away.
>
100% true. On a couple of items, I just counted bolts in the bag, but
didn't check lengths...ended up with an extra of one, and short on
another. Oh well. The things that are harder to deal with are
the ones like some of the AN fittings and Engine mount bolts
recently.... They're on the plans, but not included in the hardware
bags. A minor small example is 1/8" NTP plugs.... on the plans they
call for 1/4" plugs, which is incorrect in the first place, but the
hardware bags don't have any plugs of any size on theirs list. <doh!>
> If slow shipping and a few missing parts are Van's worst traits, then
> we're in good shape. ;-)
>
Absolutely! At least the end product is a very worthy piece of
hardware!
-Tim
do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
OK somebody needs to stand up for Vans. I must be the exception. Only one
missing part, plenty of rivets, etc. I inventory every bad and part and
everything has worked out. I am currently one nutplate short....but that is
my own fault. I do agree with others and ordered extra of the common
hardware items. I guess I will know what I am really missing when I get to
the end.
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
80% wings
10% fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
<bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Like others I've also had a few missing parts. Unlike others, when I've
called Van's about it they've been very responsive. I decided early on
that I wanted an assortment of spare rivets and bolts "just because".
I've found myself several times substituting a bolt to be slightly
shorter or longer, using slightly larger snap bushings (wing ribs),
needing an oops rivet, mounting AP servos, etc. Having a supply of
various spare hardware on hand has made these situations totally
non-events! If there's a downside to having extra rivets, bolts,
washers, etc. on hand it's that I won't necessarily know that I've been
shorted some.
Do yourself a favor and just purchase some extra common hardware - it
will save a lot of aggravation down the road. As a starting point I'd
suggest some -3 rivets of common lengths (3.5, 4, 4.5), some AN960-10 &
-10L washers, some #10 locking nuts and some LP4-3 pulled rivets. All
of the above will cost much less than the aspirin and/or beer that it
will take if you don't have them!
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I feel all your pain also.
I've gotten to the point where I do not even call Van's for
nuts/bolts/washers/screws. It just takes to long to get them. I am
fortunate that I have a place a few miles from my house that sells AN
hardware. If that wasn't the case, I'd be even more upset.
Not just AN hardware, but many times you are short rivets also.
MK-319-BS and AN426AD3-3.5 seem to always be short. Do yourself a favor
and get extras of those ahead of time also. There's no way I'd have had
enough 3.5s to finish the wing skins.
-Sean #40303
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> You're not alone. Last week (Monday I believe) I ordered some of those
> missing parts from Van's. I hedged my bet on their ability to get it
> out the door and ordered all 4 engine mount bolts from Aircraft
> Spruce also (actually, I haven't even told Van's about THOSE yet),
> and even though I'm not close to California or Georgia, Aircraft
> spruce came through by Friday. I still don't have my Van's order
> yet, unless it comes today. So, these days I try to only order
> things from Van's that either they owe me, or I have a good reason
> to get from them. Everything else comes from places like ACS where
> I know the order will be processed and delivered timely. I've found
> they are a great source of the nuts/bolts/washers/screws and other
> misc. items.
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no reason
>> they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the
>> door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the
>> wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had to
>> call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
>> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
>> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
>> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
>> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>>
>> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
>> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their comment,
>> not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two days I
>> would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that I just
>> don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only comment
>> was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will bug them
>> daily when I order something.
>>
>> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
>> customer service side could really use some work.
>>
>> Rant off.
>>
>> Michael Sausen
>> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
>> To: RV10
>> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
>> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
>> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
>> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
>> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
>> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
>> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
>> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your shorted
>> hardware without asking.
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>>
>> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
>> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>>
>>
>> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
>> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>
>>
>>
>> ====================================
>> RV10-List Email Forum -
>> bsp;
>> ====================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
... and while we're standing up for Vans, they notified me of a
potential missing part in my wing kit before it even arrived. It was
the W-1001-L wing skin. It was missing, along with the lens covers
and a small piece of aluminum sheet. After I took my inventory I
reported the items missing and they were shipped to me in less than a
week.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Wing Inventory Complete
Spars on the table and ready to dig in...
On Aug 31, 2005, at 2:35 PM, Rene Felker wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
>
> OK somebody needs to stand up for Vans. I must be the exception.
> Only one
> missing part, plenty of rivets, etc. I inventory every bad and
> part and
> everything has worked out. I am currently one nutplate
> short....but that is
> my own fault. I do agree with others and ordered extra of the common
> hardware items. I guess I will know what I am really missing when
> I get to
> the end.
>
> Rene' Felker
> 40322
> N423CF
> 80% wings
> 10% fuselage
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey,
> Bob (US
> SSA)
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:08 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>
> Like others I've also had a few missing parts. Unlike others, when
> I've
> called Van's about it they've been very responsive. I decided
> early on
> that I wanted an assortment of spare rivets and bolts "just because".
> I've found myself several times substituting a bolt to be slightly
> shorter or longer, using slightly larger snap bushings (wing ribs),
> needing an oops rivet, mounting AP servos, etc. Having a supply of
> various spare hardware on hand has made these situations totally
> non-events! If there's a downside to having extra rivets, bolts,
> washers, etc. on hand it's that I won't necessarily know that I've
> been
> shorted some.
>
> Do yourself a favor and just purchase some extra common hardware - it
> will save a lot of aggravation down the road. As a starting point I'd
> suggest some -3 rivets of common lengths (3.5, 4, 4.5), some
> AN960-10 &
> -10L washers, some #10 locking nuts and some LP4-3 pulled rivets. All
> of the above will cost much less than the aspirin and/or beer that it
> will take if you don't have them!
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean
> Stephens
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:45 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
>
> I feel all your pain also.
>
> I've gotten to the point where I do not even call Van's for
> nuts/bolts/washers/screws. It just takes to long to get them. I am
> fortunate that I have a place a few miles from my house that sells AN
> hardware. If that wasn't the case, I'd be even more upset.
>
> Not just AN hardware, but many times you are short rivets also.
> MK-319-BS and AN426AD3-3.5 seem to always be short. Do yourself a
> favor
>
> and get extras of those ahead of time also. There's no way I'd
> have had
>
> enough 3.5s to finish the wing skins.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> You're not alone. Last week (Monday I believe) I ordered some of
>> those
>> missing parts from Van's. I hedged my bet on their ability to get it
>> out the door and ordered all 4 engine mount bolts from Aircraft
>> Spruce also (actually, I haven't even told Van's about THOSE yet),
>> and even though I'm not close to California or Georgia, Aircraft
>> spruce came through by Friday. I still don't have my Van's order
>> yet, unless it comes today. So, these days I try to only order
>> things from Van's that either they owe me, or I have a good reason
>> to get from them. Everything else comes from places like ACS where
>> I know the order will be processed and delivered timely. I've found
>> they are a great source of the nuts/bolts/washers/screws and other
>> misc. items.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>>
>>> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no
>>> reason
>>>
>
>
>>> they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the
>>> door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the
>>> wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had to
>>> call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
>>> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
>>> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
>>> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
>>> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>>>
>>> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
>>> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their
>>> comment,
>>>
>
>
>>> not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two days I
>>> would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that I just
>>> don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only comment
>>> was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will bug them
>>> daily when I order something.
>>>
>>> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
>>> customer service side could really use some work.
>>>
>>> Rant off.
>>>
>>> Michael Sausen
>>> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>>>
>>> Do not archive
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
>>> To: RV10
>>> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
>>> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
>>> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
>>> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
>>> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
>>> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
>>> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
>>> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your
>>> shorted
>>>
>
>
>>> hardware without asking.
>>>
>>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>>>
>>> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
>>> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>>>
>>>
>>> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
>>> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ====================================
>>> RV10-List Email Forum -
>>> bsp;
>>> ====================================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
Notified me of the same thing. Wasn't missing. This highlights the inventory
control problem that we are basically complaining about. But at least my wing
bolts showed up today. Their ears must have been burning. :-)
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing LE's
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
... and while we're standing up for Vans, they notified me of a potential missing
part in my wing kit before it even arrived. It was the W-1001-L wing skin.
It was missing, along with the lens covers and a small piece of aluminum sheet.
After I took my inventory I reported the items missing and they were shipped
to me in less than a week.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Wing Inventory Complete
Spars on the table and ready to dig in...
On Aug 31, 2005, at 2:35 PM, Rene Felker wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
>
> OK somebody needs to stand up for Vans. I must be the exception.
> Only one
> missing part, plenty of rivets, etc. I inventory every bad and part
> and everything has worked out. I am currently one nutplate
> short....but that is my own fault. I do agree with others and ordered
> extra of the common hardware items. I guess I will know what I am
> really missing when I get to the end.
>
> Rene' Felker
> 40322
> N423CF
> 80% wings
> 10% fuselage
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey,
> Bob (US
> SSA)
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:08 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>
> Like others I've also had a few missing parts. Unlike others, when
> I've called Van's about it they've been very responsive. I decided
> early on that I wanted an assortment of spare rivets and bolts "just
> because".
> I've found myself several times substituting a bolt to be slightly
> shorter or longer, using slightly larger snap bushings (wing ribs),
> needing an oops rivet, mounting AP servos, etc. Having a supply of
> various spare hardware on hand has made these situations totally
> non-events! If there's a downside to having extra rivets, bolts,
> washers, etc. on hand it's that I won't necessarily know that I've
> been shorted some.
>
> Do yourself a favor and just purchase some extra common hardware - it
> will save a lot of aggravation down the road. As a starting point I'd
> suggest some -3 rivets of common lengths (3.5, 4, 4.5), some AN960-10
> & -10L washers, some #10 locking nuts and some LP4-3 pulled rivets.
> All of the above will cost much less than the aspirin and/or beer that
> it will take if you don't have them!
>
> Bob #40105
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean
> Stephens
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:45 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
>
> I feel all your pain also.
>
> I've gotten to the point where I do not even call Van's for
> nuts/bolts/washers/screws. It just takes to long to get them. I am
> fortunate that I have a place a few miles from my house that sells AN
> hardware. If that wasn't the case, I'd be even more upset.
>
> Not just AN hardware, but many times you are short rivets also.
> MK-319-BS and AN426AD3-3.5 seem to always be short. Do yourself a
> favor
>
> and get extras of those ahead of time also. There's no way I'd have
> had
>
> enough 3.5s to finish the wing skins.
>
> -Sean #40303
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> You're not alone. Last week (Monday I believe) I ordered some of
>> those missing parts from Van's. I hedged my bet on their ability to
>> get it out the door and ordered all 4 engine mount bolts from
>> Aircraft Spruce also (actually, I haven't even told Van's about THOSE
>> yet), and even though I'm not close to California or Georgia,
>> Aircraft spruce came through by Friday. I still don't have my Van's
>> order
>> yet, unless it comes today. So, these days I try to only order
>> things from Van's that either they owe me, or I have a good reason to
>> get from them. Everything else comes from places like ACS where I
>> know the order will be processed and delivered timely. I've found
>> they are a great source of the nuts/bolts/washers/screws and other
>> misc. items.
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>>
>>> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no
>>> reason
>>>
>
>
>>> they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the
>>> door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the
>>> wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had to
>>> call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
>>> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
>>> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
>>> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
>>> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>>>
>>> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
>>> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their
>>> comment,
>>>
>
>
>>> not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two days I
>>> would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that I just
>>> don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only comment
>>> was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will bug them
>>> daily when I order something.
>>>
>>> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
>>> customer service side could really use some work.
>>>
>>> Rant off.
>>>
>>> Michael Sausen
>>> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>>>
>>> Do not archive
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
>>> To: RV10
>>> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
>>> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
>>> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
>>> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
>>> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
>>> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
>>> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
>>> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your
>>> shorted
>>>
>
>
>>> hardware without asking.
>>>
>>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>>>
>>> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
>>> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>>>
>>>
>>> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
>>> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> RV10-List Email Forum -
>>> bsp;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 22
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|
List,
325HP past inspection yesterday with no problems!!! Bad weather and
insurance hold up today for the fist flight
Any recommendations on insurance?
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net/>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
My stuff ordered last Monday showed up as well. Well, all but
one item that apparently they don't have. I have to say that
one area that they excel in is packing and packaging. The
guys that do that job must take some pride. Everything
is always safely wrapped and more than safe. I did have a
couple of pieces of large items that had some dings in my
wing crate, but that was the exception.
Tim
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> Notified me of the same thing. Wasn't missing. This highlights the
> inventory control problem that we are basically complaining about. But
> at least my wing bolts showed up today. Their ears must have been
> burning. :-)
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Carpenter
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:24 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> ... and while we're standing up for Vans, they notified me of a
> potential missing part in my wing kit before it even arrived. It was
> the W-1001-L wing skin. It was missing, along with the lens covers and
> a small piece of aluminum sheet. After I took my inventory I reported
> the items missing and they were shipped to me in less than a week.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Wing Inventory Complete
> Spars on the table and ready to dig in...
>
>
> On Aug 31, 2005, at 2:35 PM, Rene Felker wrote:
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
> >
> > OK somebody needs to stand up for Vans. I must be the exception.
> > Only one
> > missing part, plenty of rivets, etc. I inventory every bad and part
> > and everything has worked out. I am currently one nutplate
> > short....but that is my own fault. I do agree with others and ordered
> > extra of the common hardware items. I guess I will know what I am
> > really missing when I get to the end.
> >
> > Rene' Felker
> > 40322
> > N423CF
> > 80% wings
> > 10% fuselage
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey,
> > Bob (US
> > SSA)
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:08 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
> > <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
> >
> > Like others I've also had a few missing parts. Unlike others, when
> > I've called Van's about it they've been very responsive. I decided
> > early on that I wanted an assortment of spare rivets and bolts "just
> > because".
> > I've found myself several times substituting a bolt to be slightly
> > shorter or longer, using slightly larger snap bushings (wing ribs),
> > needing an oops rivet, mounting AP servos, etc. Having a supply of
> > various spare hardware on hand has made these situations totally
> > non-events! If there's a downside to having extra rivets, bolts,
> > washers, etc. on hand it's that I won't necessarily know that I've
> > been shorted some.
> >
> > Do yourself a favor and just purchase some extra common hardware - it
> > will save a lot of aggravation down the road. As a starting point I'd
> > suggest some -3 rivets of common lengths (3.5, 4, 4.5), some AN960-10
> > & -10L washers, some #10 locking nuts and some LP4-3 pulled rivets.
> > All of the above will cost much less than the aspirin and/or beer that
> > it will take if you don't have them!
> >
> > Bob #40105
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean
> > Stephens
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:45 AM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
> >
> > I feel all your pain also.
> >
> > I've gotten to the point where I do not even call Van's for
> > nuts/bolts/washers/screws. It just takes to long to get them. I am
> > fortunate that I have a place a few miles from my house that sells AN
> > hardware. If that wasn't the case, I'd be even more upset.
> >
> > Not just AN hardware, but many times you are short rivets also.
> > MK-319-BS and AN426AD3-3.5 seem to always be short. Do yourself a
> > favor
> >
> > and get extras of those ahead of time also. There's no way I'd have
> > had
> >
> > enough 3.5s to finish the wing skins.
> >
> > -Sean #40303
> >
> > Tim Olson wrote:
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>
> >> You're not alone. Last week (Monday I believe) I ordered some of
> >> those missing parts from Van's. I hedged my bet on their ability to
> >> get it out the door and ordered all 4 engine mount bolts from
> >> Aircraft Spruce also (actually, I haven't even told Van's about THOSE
> >> yet), and even though I'm not close to California or Georgia,
> >> Aircraft spruce came through by Friday. I still don't have my Van's
> >> order
> >> yet, unless it comes today. So, these days I try to only order
> >> things from Van's that either they owe me, or I have a good reason to
> >> get from them. Everything else comes from places like ACS where I
> >> know the order will be processed and delivered timely. I've found
> >> they are a great source of the nuts/bolts/washers/screws and other
> >> misc. items.
> >> Tim
> >>
> >>
> >> Tim Olson -- RV-10
> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >>
> >>
> >> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> >>
> >>> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no
> >>> reason
> >>>
> >
> >
> >>> they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the
> >>> door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the
> >>> wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had to
> >>> call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
> >>> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
> >>> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
> >>> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
> >>> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
> >>>
> >>> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
> >>> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their
> >>> comment,
> >>>
> >
> >
> >>> not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two days I
> >>> would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that I just
> >>> don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only comment
> >>> was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will bug them
> >>> daily when I order something.
> >>>
> >>> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
> >>> customer service side could really use some work.
> >>>
> >>> Rant off.
> >>>
> >>> Michael Sausen
> >>> -10 #352 Wing LE's
> >>>
> >>> Do not archive
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
> >>> To: RV10
> >>> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
> >>>
> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>>
> >>> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
> >>> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
> >>> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
> >>> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
> >>> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
> >>> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
> >>> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
> >>> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your
> >>> shorted
> >>>
> >
> >
> >>> hardware without asking.
> >>>
> >>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
> >>>
> >>> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
> >>> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
> >>> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ====================================
> >>> RV10-List Email Forum -
> >>> bsp;
> >>> ====================================
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> more:
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Skysmith - great bunch of folks. I had some issues with the other major RV insurer
when it came time to renew my builder's policy.
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: 325HP
List,
325HP past inspection yesterday with no problems!!! Bad weather and insurance
hold up today for the fist flight
Any recommendations on insurance?
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net/>
Message 25
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Is that a 325 HP engine? Jeez, will wait for the 1st flight and report.
Maybe tomorrow????
What engine is it? Please elaborate.
Mani Ravee, MD
Indianapolis, KUMP
#40339. N528AR
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel & Yoshie
Simmons
Subject: RV10-List: 325HP
List,
325HP past inspection yesterday with no problems!!! Bad weather and
insurance hold up today for the fist flight
Any recommendations on insurance?
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net/>
Message 26
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
I'll stand up for Vans as well.
Working an RV project in the Deeeeep South (Australia) has its own set of problems.
I have been shorted parts, just like everyone else. Once ordered, the parts
typically take a week or two to arrive. Frustrating - yes, but I have NEVER
had any trouble finding something else to work on while I waited for the parts.
In a good news story, I was deburring the forward lower bulkhead of the tail cone
and noticed a crack on one of the lightening holes (caused during the stamping
operation). Took a photo and e-mailed Vans asking how to arrange a replacement.
Got no response to the e-mail, but had a replacement bulkhead in four
days - Fed Ex'ed to my door at Van's cost. Fed Ex to Oz is not cheap! I will
not criticise any company that offers that level of service.
Ron
Fuse on it's way - to be THOROUGHLY inventoried on arrival
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
OK somebody needs to stand up for Vans. I must be the exception. Only one
missing part, plenty of rivets, etc. I inventory every bad and part and
everything has worked out. I am currently one nutplate short....but that is
my own fault. I do agree with others and ordered extra of the common
hardware items. I guess I will know what I am really missing when I get to
the end.
Rene' Felker
40322
N423CF
80% wings
10% fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
<bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Like others I've also had a few missing parts. Unlike others, when I've
called Van's about it they've been very responsive. I decided early on
that I wanted an assortment of spare rivets and bolts "just because".
I've found myself several times substituting a bolt to be slightly
shorter or longer, using slightly larger snap bushings (wing ribs),
needing an oops rivet, mounting AP servos, etc. Having a supply of
various spare hardware on hand has made these situations totally
non-events! If there's a downside to having extra rivets, bolts,
washers, etc. on hand it's that I won't necessarily know that I've been
shorted some.
Do yourself a favor and just purchase some extra common hardware - it
will save a lot of aggravation down the road. As a starting point I'd
suggest some -3 rivets of common lengths (3.5, 4, 4.5), some AN960-10 &
-10L washers, some #10 locking nuts and some LP4-3 pulled rivets. All
of the above will cost much less than the aspirin and/or beer that it
will take if you don't have them!
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I feel all your pain also.
I've gotten to the point where I do not even call Van's for
nuts/bolts/washers/screws. It just takes to long to get them. I am
fortunate that I have a place a few miles from my house that sells AN
hardware. If that wasn't the case, I'd be even more upset.
Not just AN hardware, but many times you are short rivets also.
MK-319-BS and AN426AD3-3.5 seem to always be short. Do yourself a favor
and get extras of those ahead of time also. There's no way I'd have had
enough 3.5s to finish the wing skins.
-Sean #40303
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> You're not alone. Last week (Monday I believe) I ordered some of those
> missing parts from Van's. I hedged my bet on their ability to get it
> out the door and ordered all 4 engine mount bolts from Aircraft
> Spruce also (actually, I haven't even told Van's about THOSE yet),
> and even though I'm not close to California or Georgia, Aircraft
> spruce came through by Friday. I still don't have my Van's order
> yet, unless it comes today. So, these days I try to only order
> things from Van's that either they owe me, or I have a good reason
> to get from them. Everything else comes from places like ACS where
> I know the order will be processed and delivered timely. I've found
> they are a great source of the nuts/bolts/washers/screws and other
> misc. items.
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>> I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no reason
>> they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out the
>> door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from the
>> wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had to
>> call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
>> checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
>> needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
>> Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
>> shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
>>
>> Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
>> days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their comment,
>> not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two days I
>> would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that I just
>> don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only comment
>> was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will bug them
>> daily when I order something.
>>
>> Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
>> customer service side could really use some work.
>>
>> Rant off.
>>
>> Michael Sausen
>> -10 #352 Wing LE's
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
>> To: RV10
>> Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
>> parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
>> them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
>> to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
>> inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
>> 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
>> only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
>> they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your shorted
>> hardware without asking.
>>
>> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
>>
>> Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
>> engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
>>
>>
>> I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
>> enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> RV10-List Email Forum -
>> bsp;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
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in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
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Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "brian bollaert" <bbollaert@comcast.net>
Very well said John (get you a case of bolts for that one !!!!)
Brian Bollaert
#40200
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> Yikes!
>
> Several years ago when I began the tail of an RV-7 and was at the same
time
> doing consulting with the Glasair folks, I noticed the difference in
quality
> control, and I wondered aloud about this and why it was that Van's
couldn't
> get their act together. My complaints at the time got nowhere with
listers.
> Note that the technique used by Glasair is to bubble wrap parts per step
in
> the plans. Makes for a great way to quality control and also makes for a
> more expensive kit.
>
> Dan's response comes in part from the general RV list where several folks
> are complaining about the same lack of quality control. He is also coming
> from the position of a builder who has gone through it before and is
> somewhat comfortable about the "style" of Van's. Meaning, why not use
paper
> bags and scoop in the rivets by the pound, rather than quality control and
> bubble wrap?
>
> Having visited in detail with almost all the kit plane manufactures and
> consulted with some, I can tell you one thing. Each has its own culture.
> Van's definitely has one that is rooted in a sense of the old EAA. Let's
do
> this as a hobby and as cheaply as we can. Let's create the best design
that
> we can for a reasonable price, while at the same time keeping the pilots
as
> safe as possible given the performance high (on both the slow and fast
ends
> of the scale). Let's invest in those areas that help with building and
> safety, and if we can do this at a great cost, then we can make the money
to
> provide jobs and security for the folks in Aurora, and make the profit
that
> one should make, too. But do so in a style that we feel comfortable with.
>
> Could Van's divert some of its talent to making sure that you have enough
> nuts and bolts, rather than focus on the new projects they have going?
> Sure. And, I, for one, think they should. Do they have to? No. Is
their
> image going to suffer? No. They have that "everyman" funky image and are
> priced accordingly, as opposed to Lancair or even Glasair (although the
> latter is now more an image of back country as opposed to speed and
> glamour). Why change? It's working...
>
> The reasons I think that Van's should have higher quality control (like
the
> individual bubble wrap or even fill the bags more carefully, thus hiring a
> couple more people to put in the time or check how the process is done in
> the first place) are the following:
>
> 1. It's always about safety. If I were Van's I'd want to know that
someone
> as stupid as myself wouldn't think I could go out to the local HD and buy
an
> off the shelf bolt for my engine mount. I would want to make sure, now
that
> everything else is almost automated in their production facility, that the
> builder had the right connectors and other parts and thus as much as
> possible make sure the plane can be put together by anyone who buys the
kit.
> Makes me a little nervous about what else in the kit might be wrong, such
as
> those welded nuts that look like they'd last two seconds. They are
relying
> too much, I think, on the amazing fellowship of builders to bail them out.
>
> 2. It's also about a respect for the international business that they are
> engaged in. Lack of parts for me is nothing. Sure I can order up from
ACS
> and pay the shipping, but I can also simply drive over to Van's and pick
up
> the missing hardware at their counter. It's worse for someone in
Australia
> or England or anywhere where it involves depending upon their service
> department to ship and ship in an expedient manner. Especially when the
> part turns up missing on Friday night and you had scheduled yourself to be
> working on the kit all day Saturday and Sunday.
>
> 3. Pride. They really don't have to make any changes, but I would think
> that they would want to, given the general attitude I've noticed at the
> shop. (Anyone ever thought a test ride from them is like walking into (at
> least with one person) a BMW dealer who cannot believe you aren't already
a
> true believer. Why would you ever ask questions or doubt anything?)
>
> Anyway. It's a great kit. A lot of good people. But, I would like to
see
> them make an effort in the next year to get the quality control upgraded.
> What would that cost? Not sure. Would it be worth the cost? I think so.
> I'm certainly not going to spend my time counting the rivets in the bags,
> but I would hope they would make sure I had more than I needed. Rivets
are
> cheap, even if dolled out in the quantities they do. I will, however,
spend
> my time counting the bolts and everything else. To me, I'd rather spend a
> few more bucks to have to spend less time counting. Seems like a bandage
> they put into the plans to make up for something not going right at the
> shop.
>
> John Jessen
> 40328 --> HS
>
>
> 3.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:14 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Oh believe me, every time they short me a part, and sometimes before they
> short me, I order many more spares. That's real practical for AN3
> bolts/nuts/washers, and kind of practical
> for AN4 nuts/washers/bolts. That said, you're missing the point
> here. How many AN7-26 bolts for mounting an engine is a person
> supposed to buy and have on hand? And, since we're going to
> blow a few hundred on some spare, rarely used hardware, should they order
> AN7-10,12,14,16,18,20,22,24,26,28 bolts in quantities of at least 4 each,
so
> when they get to the engine mount they just happen to have AN7-26 bolts on
> hand? Mike's wing attach bolts aren't just simple and cheap bolts, and a
> fair of the parts people are being shorted are not things people would
keep
> as spares on hand. I have filled my box with an assortment of
> AN3,4,5,6,7,and 8 nuts and washers though, since you don't have to worry
> about bolt lengths there.
>
> I found it pretty interesting actually, when I first ordered my kit, I
told
> the girl at Van's that I wanted to order some spare hardware, rivets,
nuts,
> bolts, and things like that, in case I was short. She told me I didn't
need
> to worry about that because I would have everything I needed with the kit.
> Looking back, that statement itself had no chance of being true,
especially
> when you don't go 100% to plans and add brackets and mountings.
>
> I don't think we're being "spoiled puppies" though when we expect to have
> the proper hardware show up with the kit that we paid for. I actually
have
> a fair assortment of blue AN fittings too, even at a few buck each...but
> still, when it came to actually mount the engine, I didn't have any
AN816-8D
> sized fittings that I was shorted.
>
> Also, nobody said they were a "bad kit manufacturer"...but, their ability
to
> deliver on parts for the -10 is definitely not in the "worlds class"
> category.
>
> I'll try to add a section on the page soon that goes into recommended
spare
> hardware. I've found it extrememly helpful to keep a pile of CS4-4,
LP4-3,
> MK319-BS rivets, ALL of the AN470 and AN426 AD3&4 rivets, Ooops rivets,
> nutplates of all sizes, least 4 of each AN3 bolts from lengths -3
thru -21,
> a couple of sizes of AN4 bolts, a pile of nyloc nuts in all sizes, and
some
> AN310 and other various all-metal and low-profile locknuts in various
> sizes. I myself now have probably 120 compartments
> in some boxes filled with rivets and various part, and another 100+
> compartments filled with assorted screws,
> nuts, washers, and bolts. The worst part is that
> a new builder might not have any clue as to what sizes and quantities
would
> be a good idea to keep around. I try to err on the side that keeps me
> driving cheap vehicles, and just spend the cash.
>
> I'm not looking forward to how many possible items were left out of the
FWF
> kit. There's too many various fittings required there...that's why I'm
> keeping a list, in hopes that other builders can find out about these
> possible shortages before they get to that step.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Dan Checkoway wrote:
> > Any RV builder who doesn't have an arsenal of spare bolts, washers,
> > nuts, nutplates, screws, adel clamps, snap bushings, cotter pins, AN
> > fittings, wire, terminals, and all sorts of other assorted hardware is
> > remiss imho. If you're relying on *just* what the kit provides, then
> > you're not preparing yourself to maintain the plane long term anyway.
> >
> > Spruce sells hardware assortments. Do yourself a favor and get some
> > extra hardware. You're going to be maintaining this plane in the long
> > run, right? Remember, you are a "shop" now.
> >
> > If Van's shorts you stuff, they will cover you if you claim it shortly
> > after receiving the kit. If missing a bolt or two is really keeping
> > you from progressing, then get yourself some extra hardware -- you can
> > still hit Van's up for what they shorted you on -- but at least you
> > can keep moving on.
> >
> > If you think Van's is a "bad kit manufacturer" because you're N bolts
> > and a cotter pin short, then you are one spoiled puppy!
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D (607 hours)
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:05 AM
> > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
> >
> > I do think this is getting to be a bit of a joke, there is no
> > reason they should be shorting people this much with 450+ kit's out
> > the door. I'm still waiting on a backordered couple of bolts from
> > the wing kit. They didn't bother mentioning it or anything, I had
> > to call to find out where it was when the wing kit arrived. When I
> > checked on it a month later I got the comment that they doubted I
> > needed them anyway as they are for the wing attach to the fuse.
> > Nice. I've come up short on at least a couple things in each kit
> > shipment so far and it only sounds like it gets worse.
> >
> > Hate to vent but I just found out that a order I placed a couple
> > days ago has, once again, not shipped for any reason (their
> > comment, not mine). If it would have even shipped in the first two
> > days I would have had it for the weekend. I explained to them that
> > I just don't get how they can sit on orders for days but the only
> > comment was that's just the way it is. From now on I think I will
> > bug them daily when I order something.
> >
> > Van's has a great product but, as many other people have said, the
> > customer service side could really use some work.
> >
> > Rant off.
> >
> > Michael Sausen
> > -10 #352 Wing LE's
> >
> > Do not archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 AM
> > To: RV10
> > Subject: RV10-List: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> > I've had people contact me hoping to hear more about the missing
> > parts I've found recently, so I updated my page to list some of
> > them. I'm sure there's more than what I have listed, but I'm trying
> > to keep a good list for you to refer to so you can doublecheck your
> > inventory. In at least one case, the bag has been changed from
> > 523 to 523-1, indicating that they changed the list. Of course, the
> > only way you'll ever know that is if we pass the info along, because
> > they're sure not going to suddenly ship you a package of your
> > shorted hardware without asking.
> >
> > http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20050827/index.html
> >
> > Check it out...in my case, I wouldn't have been able to mount the
> > engine if I hadn't anticipated some missing bolts.
> >
> >
> > I also added on a small update last night regarding a battery box
> > enlargement for the PC925 and spinner initial fitting.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --
> > Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> >
> >
> >
> > ====================================
> > RV10-List Email Forum -
> > bsp;
> > ====================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
Mark Ritter wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"
>
> My two cents - Van is delivering a great product at a great price. I
> can live with a few missing rivets, cotter keys and bolts. Besides I
> like talking to Jessica and she has never failed to have the missing
> items in the mail --- its not like I don't have anything left to do
> while waiting for the brown truck to show up.
>
> Hope the whining stops soon and we can get back to posting building tips.
>
Here's a builder tip...
<start tip>
Don't count on getting all the hardware you need to finish a kit
section. Order extra from ACS.
</stop tip>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: IO-540 questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
When I asked Superior for a recommended distributor, they told me
A.E.R.O. is the highest volume Superior retailer (as I recall). They're
at A-E-R-O.com. I'm overhauling an old narrow deck IO-540. I plan to
shop my parts list to A.E.R.O. and Aircraft Specialty Services.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 740 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> Another engine question:
>
> Does anyone know a good source where we can purchase rod bolts/nuts for
> an IO-540?
>
> TDT
> 40025
> Do not archive
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Byron
> Gillespie
> *Sent:* Monday, August 29, 2005 5:43 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: IO-540 questions
>
> I am looking at a rebuilt engine for purchase and have a couple
> questions:
>
>> Is there any advantage of a narrow or wide deck IO-540
> configuration (or whats the difference)?
>
>>Mounting ears I believe need to be the # 70456 30 degree ears?
>
>>When specifying the mount style for the finishing kit is the
> dynafocal I the typical one and again what are you looking for
> to tell the difference?
>
>>Anything else to look out for?
>
>
>
> Thanks for all the help!
>
>
>
> Byron # 40253 Installing fuselage floors.
>
>
>
Message 31
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I think most insurance will require at least 5 hours of dual in an RV-10 for flight
coverage, so depending on how long you're willing to wait to coordinate that
. . .
TDT
40025
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Noel & Yoshie Simmons
Subject: RV10-List: 325HP
List,
325HP past inspection yesterday with no problems!!! Bad weather and insurance
hold up today for the fist flight
Any recommendations on insurance?
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net/>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Three bladed props |
Hi All,
Has anyone heard any reports on the performance of the MT three bladed prop?
John Dunne.
RV-10 #40315 (Finishing Tailcone)
acs@acspropeller.com.au
Message 33
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Nope, it's his N number... N325HP (confirmed on the FAA's database)
Is that a 325 HP engine?
>
Message 34
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Where are folks installing ELT antennas?
TDT
40025
do not archive
Message 35
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| Subject: | Parts missing and other rants |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
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Message 36
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| Subject: | Parts missing and other rants |
Nice post
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: RV10-List: Parts missing and other rants
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Ditto for me too,
I have a nice hardware supply I picked up from Spruce with bolts,
washer,nuts etc along with AN tubing parts such as sleeves and nuts,
bulkhead fittings, elbows. 1/4 pound of rivets of each type, snap bushing,
adel clamps, all the stuff I used to see on the bench stock board in every
Aircraft Maintence Unit I ever worked in. Build yourself a bench stock,
you'll need it. When my kits have arrive I just resupply my stock and take
paticular attention to aircraft specific hardware like engine/wing mount
bolts. Think about what it takes to maintain an aircraft, a percentage of
the members I "assume" (and I mean no offense by that) have not been in a
maintenance role before, there are a bunch of harware items that are
considered "expendable" or "comsumable" like locknuts, cotter pins and such,
build up your stock.
I had a few missing and parts along with a few parts made wrong in my kit,
Van's replaced all in short time. As much as I like to bust Ken's
personality (because it IS a personality) He can't help it, it is learned
from his enviroment and his boss, if your from Oregon or from
Holland....they are no nonsense characters, deal with it ;) In the end it
all turns out for the good. Somebody said "fairly good kit" in this "I ain't
got nuthin better do" do thread. Com'on....this is a great kit!, just ask
the guys who built the early 4's,6's and even he 7's and 8's. When was the
last time you broke out your fan spacer to drill your skins? Or for you real
newbies...do you know what a fan spacer is? This is a neat Erector set, for
you 20/30ish type that was how us 40/50/60ish guys learned how to bolt
things together metal parts into airplanes and cranes before we tore down
our Lincoln Log cabins.
I do think there is an issue with the completeness of the quickbuilds due
to a lack of control between the two plants...but hey...I'm slow build, I
mean building for comfort.
And to close.....lets not forget our fellow Americans and their family's in
the South who are going through such devastation that we can't imagine, all
while we read our emails. Makes a missing bolt seem so trivial don't you
think? If you pray..please do, if you don't then at least wish them the
best, regardless....I sent my money earmarked tonight. The rest of the
world could care less.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse
Wearing full personel protection equipment for this tongue in cheek
perspective.
do not archive
Message 37
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I haven't installed mine yet, but I thought I'd mount it horizontally
in the tail, between the VS and HS, just under the fairing.
It should work there.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> Where are folks installing ELT antennas?
>
> TDT
> 40025
> do not archive
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: FWF/Finishing Missing Parts to date |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello John
John Jessen wrote:
>
>The reasons I think that Van's should have higher quality control (like the
>individual bubble wrap or even fill the bags more carefully, thus hiring a
>couple more people to put in the time or check how the process is done in
>the first place) are the following:
>
>
>
agree, I was over more then two years in close contact with the folks
building up NewGlasair after
they've restarted, I think the main points are, NG is still a much
smaller company then Van's is so
more down to a controllable bunch of people and NG has Lori =(;o). This
said, they had a very hard
and tough time to find people with the right attitude to get their
shipping to a good standard and this
might just be the problem at Van's getting enough good people who them
selfs feel responsible and
are not just working to have their bucks in the pocket in the evening.
This is always a problem when companies begin to growth in a way where
the personal touch of people
can not follow and if you look at sales numbers you can tell, that Van's
grew a lot the last years.
I agree, a better quality control would suite them, but you might (as
you mentioned) see also prices raise
when this happens (good people need to be paid better so they remain).
It was and is always a nuisance being short of a part and having
(inpatient) to wait for delivery of
needed parts, however when done and having your project in the air all
this will be forgotten and let
behind!!
Werner
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