Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - Re: Three bladed props (Mark Ritter)
2. 05:22 AM - Re: Crow's Foot Torque (Patrick Thyssen)
3. 05:58 AM - Canadain inspectors rejecting some re-assembled parts? (Perry Casson)
4. 01:14 PM - Re: Crow's Foot Torque (Rick)
5. 02:19 PM - Re: Canadain inspectors rejecting some re-assembled parts? (Chris , Susie McGough)
6. 03:03 PM - Re: Crow's Foot Torque (Greg Young)
7. 03:16 PM - electric help (Robert G. Wright)
8. 05:33 PM - Re: electric help (Dan Checkoway)
9. 07:22 PM - Re: electric help (linn walters)
10. 07:47 PM - Re: electric help (Dan Masys)
11. 08:42 PM - Minimum practical runway length for an RV-10 (Dan Charrois)
12. 09:35 PM - Re: Soldering tips (John Cleary)
13. 09:40 PM - Re: Canadain inspectors rejecting some pre-assembled parts? (Perry Casson)
14. 09:54 PM - Re: Soldering tips (linn walters)
15. 10:36 PM - Re: Soldering tips (John Cleary)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Three bladed props |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Crow's Foot Torque |
Ah but I do work on airplanes and I do see things that you would not believe and
90% is by the owners and other mechanics who think good and tight is the only
way of doing. And when was the last time you had you own torque qrench checked?
you amature!!!
Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Patrick,
I've torqued AN fittings to specs and found leaks, as Dan says tongue in cheek
"goodintight" with a bit of a German accent, is correct and has nothing to do
with "experimental" unless you are calling our front line fighter aircraft "experimental"
The proecedure I have used, is to start with the spec torque and
during engine run up you do a leak check (required to check for leaks), mainly
on our "experimental F-100/110 engines" and hydraulic powered M61A1 20MM cannons,
(GAU-8 as well but that's another story) funny I always tried to figure
out after we applied the proper torque to all those fittings we had to do an engine
run to check for leaks, seeing how we torqued them and all. Shoot!!!! Look
there a "leak"!!!! IT'S BECAUSE THEY NEED TO BE SNUGGED, maybe past the desired
torque to stop leaks. Why do you think there is a range of torque you dipstick!!
Experimental my A**.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse
Message 3
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| Subject: | Canadain inspectors rejecting some re-assembled parts? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Perry Casson <pcasson@sasktel.net>
I was speaking to the guy who does homebuilt inspections in my area and
he tells me that it was reported to him that several Canadian RV-10
builders have had either their fast build wings or wing spars fail
inspection due to poor riveting quality in the pre-done assemblies. From
what he could recall he thought the issue was under driven rivets. I'd
sure like to hear from those who had this problem and what was done to
resolve the issue.
Perry Casson - top skin on wing #2
Regina, Canada
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Crow's Foot Torque |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Canadain inspectors rejecting some re-assembled parts? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Perry this is of serious concern...do you have any more details as I would
like to follow it up at Vans.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Perry Casson" <pcasson@sasktel.net>
Subject: RV10-List: Canadain inspectors rejecting some re-assembled parts?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Perry Casson <pcasson@sasktel.net>
>
> I was speaking to the guy who does homebuilt inspections in my area and he
> tells me that it was reported to him that several Canadian RV-10 builders
> have had either their fast build wings or wing spars fail inspection due
> to poor riveting quality in the pre-done assemblies. From what he could
> recall he thought the issue was under driven rivets. I'd sure like to
> hear from those who had this problem and what was done to resolve the
> issue.
>
> Perry Casson - top skin on wing #2
> Regina, Canada
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Crow's Foot Torque |
Hey Pat - Getting a little testy aren't you? You don't have to jump on
others just because your arm is in a sling and you can't work. BTW you
need to turn on your spell checker if you're going to harass people;-)
do not archive this nonsense
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick
Thyssen
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 7:19 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Crow's Foot Torque
=09
=09
Ah but I do work on airplanes and I do see things that you
would not believe and 90% is by the owners and other mechanics who think
good and tight is the only way of doing. And when was the last time you
had you own torque qrench checked? you amature!!!
Message 7
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All,
Even though I'm only 70% done with the tail kit, I've been thinking a lot
lately about wiring. I'm about to order Bob's book, but I'm asking you
guys, the ones who've never done wiring before (except minor home repair),
what other sources, if any, do I need to buy to get a foundation on simple
schematic reading and building up from there? I don't know of any SportAir
workshops any time soon in my area (lower AL) on the subject.
Or will Bob's book start me out right?
Rob
#392
Short break between HS (61 hours) and Elevators.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: electric help |
Bob's book covers a lot of theory, as well as providing some rock solid system
diagrams and suggestions, but it doesn't really teach you the hands-on techniques.
How to use crimpers on various pins and sockets, how to solder this and
that. A lot of the fundamentals it just kind of assumes you have already. If
you need "from square one" type instruction, I suggest getting together with
somebody who has experience and tools and can show you the ropes.
Something else to consider would be to scour every bit of the articles here: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles.html Lots to be learned there for the uninitiated. Great stuff.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert G. Wright
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 3:13 PM
Subject: RV10-List: electric help
All,
Even though I'm only 70% done with the tail kit, I've been thinking a lot lately
about wiring. I'm about to order Bob's book, but I'm asking you guys, the
ones who've never done wiring before (except minor home repair), what other sources,
if any, do I need to buy to get a foundation on simple schematic reading
and building up from there? I don't know of any SportAir workshops any time
soon in my area (lower AL) on the subject.
Or will Bob's book start me out right?
Rob
#392
Short break between HS (61 hours) and Elevators.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: electric help |
Hi Robert! The book will give you all the theory you need. However,
you will need to do some practice soldering .... just as you did
riveting! The secret to good soldering is a good temperature controlled
iron and the right shaped tip. My favorite is an old Weller soldering
station. The tips are temperature controlled and there are many shapes
to choose from. Easily changed (even when hot), each tip has a number
stamped on the bottom .... for the temp. #7 is 700 degrees and #8 is
800 degrees. I prefer the long pointed tip to do connectors with. I
also use the #8 tip to get in there, heat the joint and add solder.
Never, never carry solder to the joint. You need the flux to clean the
joint and get good solder flow.
My best 'secret' is a rubber sleeve from an alligator clip. When you
strip the jacket of the mil-spec wire, all you have to do is cut the
jacket (Paladin makes a neat tool to cut jackets and insulation ....
surestrip), insert the wire into the small end of the rubber insulator,
squeeze and pull. Comes right off. That stuff is more slippery than
snot, but this works for me.
As for schematics, you won't have to learn many symbols .... and most
are named anyway. If you see a symbol you can't understand, then just
describe it to the list and someone (or many someones) will educate
you. I can't think of many ... battery, motor (starter, trim and
flaps), relays, switches and some resistors (maybe), mike and phone
jacks, ....... I'm running out of ideas here! :-)
Good questions though!!!
Linn (NASA certificated solderer)
do not archive
Robert G. Wright wrote:
> All,
>
>
>
> Even though I'm only 70% done with the tail kit, I've been thinking a
> lot lately about wiring. I'm about to order Bob's book, but I'm
> asking you guys, the ones who've never done wiring before (except
> minor home repair), what other sources, if any, do I need to buy to
> get a foundation on simple schematic reading and building up from
> there? I don't know of any SportAir workshops any time soon in my
> area (lower AL) on the subject.
>
>
>
> Or will Bob's book start me out right?
>
>
>
> Rob
>
> #392
>
> Short break between HS (61 hours) and Elevators.
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: electric help |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
> Even though I'm only 70% done with the tail kit, I've been thinking a lot
> lately about wiring. I'm about to order Bob's book, but I'm asking you
> guys, the ones who've never done wiring before (except minor home repair),
> what other sources, if any, do I need to buy to get a foundation on simple
> schematic reading and building up from there? I don't know of any SportAir
> workshops any time soon in my area (lower AL) on the subject.
Electric Bob also holds weekend workshops that cover the same material as his book,
but can help you to see the big picture. I went to one in Camarillo when
I was building the -7A and it helped quite a bit.
When I read the book and looked at the schematics, I didn't get the Eureka effect
until I realized that every time Bob refers to a bus, what he really means
is a fuse block. Main bus = 10 position fuse block in my -7A, Essential bus =
20 position fuse block. Once you get that, the rest of it is just point to point
wiring with the correct AWG wire size.
-Dan Masys
RV7A N747DL flying
RV10 rudder
Message 11
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| Subject: | Minimum practical runway length for an RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
Hi everyone. I've recently decided to join the ranks of RV-10
builders, having ordered my tail/emp kit a week or so ago. It's due
to arrive some time next week, and I'm excited to get started.
There are a couple of airports within a 30 minute drive that I could
base the plane out of (and finish the construction at when it gets
too big for the garage). However, I would much prefer to be able to
keep the plane at home if it's at all practical - to benefit both the
construction process as well as operating the plane later when
completed. Having the plane literally just outside the door when I
want to go flying would be a huge contributor to "just because" flying.
So ideally, what I'd like to do is build a hanger at home and a grass
strip. But I have some questions. First of all, how is the RV-10
expected to be able to handle a grass strip? Secondly, what would a
"practical" runway length be for such a strip? I've read the fully
loaded specs with a 260 hp engine (which I'm planning for) to be 500
ft takeoff and 650 ft landing (and in the factory demo ride I
recently had, I can believe those numbers). But of course, that's
assuming a perfectly performing plane, hard surface, etc.
The land we own is approximately 2500 feet long, but there are
several houses adjacent to the far south end. Because of this, I
would plan on using it as a one-way runway to the north, to minimize
any disturbance to the people there (takeoffs would be away from the
houses, and landings over the houses to the strip would be at low
power). Fortunately, there are no obstructions at all towards the
north, nor are there likely to ever be - just flat field for miles,
and the prevailing winds would almost always favor a northerly
takeoff/landing anyway. To minimize the disturbance to our southern
neighbours, I was thinking of a runway about 1300 feet long at the
north end of the property, so there would be about 1200 feet between
the houses at the south end of the property and the threshold. There
is about a 0.9% gradient uphill towards the north.
Obviously, the gradient and grass strip would reduce performance from
the quoted figures, but I'm wondering what you folks out there would
consider "appropriate" from a safety standpoint. Would this work?
Also, how wide of a strip would be practical? I've landed at
countless 75 foot wide strips, but would 50 feet wide be okay? Of
course, the longer and wider the better, but I'm looking for
practical minimums here, which I would probably increase a bit anyway.
The other question pertains to our climate up here in Canada - for a
large part of the year, the ground is covered in snow. Clearing the
snow wouldn't be too much trouble - we can borrow the equipment for
that. But not having landed anything on a grass strip with a plowed
snow surface, would I just be asking for trouble? Or would it be
better to fly in the winter with skis and forget about plowing (in
that vein, could skis be outfitted to an RV-10?)
The two airports within 30 minutes are both maintained summer and
winter with asphalt runways, so I could always use them if returning
from a flight somewhere and conditions at home aren't conducive to a
safe landing. And of course, if operating an RV-10 out of a grass
strip with the limitations I've mentioned isn't practical, I may be
basing my plane out of one of those airports anyway. But since it
would be so much more convenient (and less costly) to keep everything
at home, I thought I'd write for advice on the matter.
Thanks for any help you can give!
Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
Message 12
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Linn,
What do you mean by "Never, never carry solder to the joint"?
Thank you,
John Cleary (empennage stage)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Soldering tips
Hi Robert! The book will give you all the theory you need. However, you
will need to do some practice soldering .... just as you did riveting! The
secret to good soldering is a good temperature controlled iron and the right
shaped tip. My favorite is an old Weller soldering station. The tips are
temperature controlled and there are many shapes to choose from. Easily
changed (even when hot), each tip has a number stamped on the bottom ....
for the temp. #7 is 700 degrees and #8 is 800 degrees. I prefer the long
pointed tip to do connectors with. I also use the #8 tip to get in there,
heat the joint and add solder. Never, never carry solder to the joint. You
need the flux to clean the joint and get good solder flow.
My best 'secret' is a rubber sleeve from an alligator clip. When you strip
the jacket of the mil-spec wire, all you have to do is cut the jacket
(Paladin makes a neat tool to cut jackets and insulation .... surestrip),
insert the wire into the small end of the rubber insulator, squeeze and
pull. Comes right off. That stuff is more slippery than snot, but this
works for me.
As for schematics, you won't have to learn many symbols .... and most are
named anyway. If you see a symbol you can't understand, then just describe
it to the list and someone (or many someones) will educate you. I can't
think of many ... battery, motor (starter, trim and flaps), relays, switches
and some resistors (maybe), mike and phone jacks, ....... I'm running out of
ideas here! :-)
Good questions though!!!
Linn (NASA certificated solderer)
do not archive
Robert G. Wright wrote:
All,
Even though I'm only 70% done with the tail kit, I've been thinking a lot
lately about wiring. I'm about to order Bob's book, but I'm asking you
guys, the ones who've never done wiring before (except minor home repair),
what other sources, if any, do I need to buy to get a foundation on simple
schematic reading and building up from there? I don't know of any SportAir
workshops any time soon in my area (lower AL) on the subject.
Or will Bob's book start me out right?
Rob
#392
Short break between HS (61 hours) and Elevators.
_____
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Canadain inspectors rejecting some pre-assembled parts? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Perry Casson <pcasson@sasktel.net>
I don't know much more than my 1st post and keep in mind this is 3rd
hand news. My inspector was not sure if it was the spars or other
riveting on fast build wings that was the issue during the pre-close
inspections. I'll be following this up when I get home next week and
report what ever I learn but with some luck the guys that had the
problem are on the list and will set the story straight.
The other thing I plan to do is get out my calipers and be sure the
tails of the spar rivets are driven enough to meet *MIL-R-47196A *
(found a copy at: <http://home.flash.net/~gila/rivet_spec/rivet_a.htm>)*
*Perry Casson
Chris , Susie McGough wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough"
> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>
> Perry this is of serious concern...do you have any more details as I
> would like to follow it up at Vans.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Soldering tips |
John Cleary wrote:
> Linn,
>
>
>
> What do you mean by "Never, never carry solder to the joint"?
>
Melting the solder on the iron tip and then pressing the melted solder
on the joint. Proper technique is to heat the joint so that the joint
melts the solder, not the iron directly. Flowing the melted solder into
the joint from the iron will increase the chance of a cold solder joint,
and a poor connection. Some 'wet' solder on the iron will aid in heat
conduction to the joint ...... just don't use a big glob!
Linn
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> John Cleary (empennage stage)
>
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
> Sent: Sunday, 4 September 2005 12:23 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Soldering tips
>
>
>
> Hi Robert! The book will give you all the theory you need. However,
> you will need to do some practice soldering .... just as you did
> riveting! The secret to good soldering is a good temperature
> controlled iron and the right shaped tip. My favorite is an old
> Weller soldering station. The tips are temperature controlled and
> there are many shapes to choose from. Easily changed (even when hot),
> each tip has a number stamped on the bottom .... for the temp. #7 is
> 700 degrees and #8 is 800 degrees. I prefer the long pointed tip to
> do connectors with. I also use the #8 tip to get in there, heat the
> joint and add solder. Never, never carry solder to the joint. You
> need the flux to clean the joint and get good solder flow.
>
> My best 'secret' is a rubber sleeve from an alligator clip. When you
> strip the jacket of the mil-spec wire, all you have to do is cut the
> jacket (Paladin makes a neat tool to cut jackets and insulation ....
> surestrip), insert the wire into the small end of the rubber
> insulator, squeeze and pull. Comes right off. That stuff is more
> slippery than snot, but this works for me.
>
> As for schematics, you won't have to learn many symbols .... and most
> are named anyway. If you see a symbol you can't understand, then just
> describe it to the list and someone (or many someones) will educate
> you. I can't think of many ... battery, motor (starter, trim and
> flaps), relays, switches and some resistors (maybe), mike and phone
> jacks, ....... I'm running out of ideas here! :-)
>
>
> Good questions though!!!
> Linn (NASA certificated solderer)
> do not archive
>
> Robert G. Wright wrote:
>
> All,
>
>
>
> Even though I'm only 70% done with the tail kit, I've been thinking a
> lot lately about wiring. I'm about to order Bob's book, but I'm
> asking you guys, the ones who've never done wiring before (except
> minor home repair), what other sources, if any, do I need to buy to
> get a foundation on simple schematic reading and building up from
> there? I don't know of any SportAir workshops any time soon in my
> area (lower AL) on the subject.
>
>
>
> Or will Bob's book start me out right?
>
>
>
> Rob
>
> #392
>
> Short break between HS (61 hours) and Elevators.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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Linn,
Thank you. That is very clear.
John
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Soldering tips
John Cleary wrote:
Linn,
What do you mean by "Never, never carry solder to the joint"?
Melting the solder on the iron tip and then pressing the melted solder on
the joint. Proper technique is to heat the joint so that the joint melts
the solder, not the iron directly. Flowing the melted solder into the joint
from the iron will increase the chance of a cold solder joint, and a poor
connection. Some 'wet' solder on the iron will aid in heat conduction to
the joint ...... just don't use a big glob!
Linn
Thank you,
John Cleary (empennage stage)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Soldering tips
Hi Robert! The book will give you all the theory you need. However, you
will need to do some practice soldering .... just as you did riveting! The
secret to good soldering is a good temperature controlled iron and the right
shaped tip. My favorite is an old Weller soldering station. The tips are
temperature controlled and there are many shapes to choose from. Easily
changed (even when hot), each tip has a number stamped on the bottom ....
for the temp. #7 is 700 degrees and #8 is 800 degrees. I prefer the long
pointed tip to do connectors with. I also use the #8 tip to get in there,
heat the joint and add solder. Never, never carry solder to the joint. You
need the flux to clean the joint and get good solder flow.
My best 'secret' is a rubber sleeve from an alligator clip. When you strip
the jacket of the mil-spec wire, all you have to do is cut the jacket
(Paladin makes a neat tool to cut jackets and insulation .... surestrip),
insert the wire into the small end of the rubber insulator, squeeze and
pull. Comes right off. That stuff is more slippery than snot, but this
works for me.
As for schematics, you won't have to learn many symbols .... and most are
named anyway. If you see a symbol you can't understand, then just describe
it to the list and someone (or many someones) will educate you. I can't
think of many ... battery, motor (starter, trim and flaps), relays, switches
and some resistors (maybe), mike and phone jacks, ....... I'm running out of
ideas here! :-)
Good questions though!!!
Linn (NASA certificated solderer)
do not archive
Robert G. Wright wrote:
All,
Even though I'm only 70% done with the tail kit, I've been thinking a lot
lately about wiring. I'm about to order Bob's book, but I'm asking you
guys, the ones who've never done wiring before (except minor home repair),
what other sources, if any, do I need to buy to get a foundation on simple
schematic reading and building up from there? I don't know of any SportAir
workshops any time soon in my area (lower AL) on the subject.
Or will Bob's book start me out right?
Rob
#392
Short break between HS (61 hours) and Elevators.
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