---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 09/04/05: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:15 AM - tail cone questions () 2. 06:36 AM - Re: tail cone questions (James Hein) 3. 07:03 AM - Re: tail cone questions (Tim Olson) 4. 07:11 AM - Re: tail cone questions (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 5. 11:02 AM - Friggin tank ribs (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 6. 11:17 AM - Re: Friggin tank ribs (Sean Stephens) 7. 11:39 AM - Re: Friggin tank ribs (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 8. 12:50 PM - Re: electric help (Rick) 9. 01:02 PM - Re: Crow's Foot Torque (Rick) 10. 01:20 PM - Re: Canadain inspectors rejecting some pre-assembled parts? (Chris , Susie McGough) 11. 01:27 PM - Re: Friggin tank ribs (John Hasbrouck) 12. 01:29 PM - tail cone thanks () 13. 01:41 PM - Re: tail cone thanks (James Hein) 14. 02:00 PM - Re: tail cone thanks (PJ Seipel) 15. 02:36 PM - Re: Minimum practical runway length for an RV-10 (Russell Daves) 16. 04:04 PM - Re: Friggin tank ribs (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 17. 04:45 PM - Re: Friggin tank ribs (Rick) 18. 04:50 PM - Re: Minimum practical runway length for an RV-10 (Rick) 19. 05:42 PM - Re: Friggin tank ribs (John Hasbrouck) 20. 06:55 PM - Cowling Trim question (Tim Olson) 21. 07:13 PM - Re: Cowling Trim question (Marcus Cooper) 22. 07:31 PM - wire (Robert G. Wright) 23. 08:58 PM - Re: Friggin tank ribs (Tim Olson) 24. 09:01 PM - Re: tail cone thanks (Tim Olson) 25. 09:38 PM - Re: wire (linn walters) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:20 AM PST US From: Subject: RV10-List: tail cone questions --> RV10-List message posted by: Hi, guys I'm a the point of put the VS togheter,and have two problems (this questions is for the builders allready finish the empennage ,and may be help the begginers). when try to fit the skin at VS the leading edge do not close at the nose rib part,due to the nose rib is whider then the leading edge ,need a small fluting where the machine hole is at front?.do I start from the LE back or from back to LE. second, at page 6-2- fig 2- step 6, say ,machine countersink all #30 holes below upper attach bolt holes,but in page 6-4 fig4-step 7 say leave open the upper bottom rudder hinge bracket for later made a #12 hole,due I have to countersink these two holes? sorry for the stupid questions ,at this early stages of constuction I try to understand the general idea. Hugo #40456 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:58 AM PST US From: James Hein Subject: Re: RV10-List: tail cone questions DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:21 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: tail cone questions --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson This question has come up many times before. What you really DON'T want to do is try to force the ribs tighter into the leading edge. You WILL cause an outward dent if you do that. I don't remember if you will need any fluting, but I don't think so. What you want to do is take maybe 1/8" or maybe more (leave yourself enough rivet hole edge clearance on that first tab), and remove a bit of the nose rib. Many builders who I've talked to online and at OSH have admitted that they too are a victim of this problem. That should answer the first part of your questions. As for the rest regarding the conutersinking, perhaps another person who is more recently done with the tailcone could jump in and give some good info on that...I'm a bit rusty on the tailcone. As far as I remember, there aren't too many gotchas on the tailcone, and if you just do everything per plans, only riveting the called out areas, and only countersinking the called out areas, you should come out just great. The nose rib not fitting in the front skin is one of the exceptions. Good luck Hugo....keep it going! Glad to hear you're coming along with your kit. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > Hi, guys I'm a the point of put the VS togheter,and have two problems > (this questions is for the builders allready finish the empennage > ,and may be help the begginers). when try to fit the skin at VS the > leading edge do not close at the nose rib part,due to the nose rib is > whider then the leading edge ,need a small fluting where the machine > hole is at front?.do I start from the LE back or from back to LE. > second, at page 6-2- fig 2- step 6, say ,machine countersink all #30 > holes below upper attach bolt holes,but in page 6-4 fig4-step 7 say > leave open the upper bottom rudder hinge bracket for later made a #12 > hole,due I have to countersink these two holes? sorry for the stupid > questions ,at this early stages of constuction I try to understand > the general idea. Hugo #40456 > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:14 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: tail cone questions From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." --> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." If you look forward in the instructions for the HS, they tell you to trim/ reduce the nose rib on the leading edge so it will fit better. Read how they tell you to do it, and do it for the VS, you will be one of the few us that do not have the ridges in their VS skin. For your second question, I held off, because I looked at the attach sequence and it shows you putting bolts there, but if you do need to ctsk them later you can still get to them if needed. Dan 40269 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gommone7@bellsouth.net Subject: RV10-List: tail cone questions --> RV10-List message posted by: Hi, guys I'm a the point of put the VS togheter,and have two problems (this questions is for the builders allready finish the empennage ,and may be help the begginers). when try to fit the skin at VS the leading edge do not close at the nose rib part,due to the nose rib is whider then the leading edge ,need a small fluting where the machine hole is at front?.do I start from the LE back or from back to LE. second, at page 6-2- fig 2- step 6, say ,machine countersink all #30 holes below upper attach bolt holes,but in page 6-4 fig4-step 7 say leave open the upper bottom rudder hinge bracket for later made a #12 hole,due I have to countersink these two holes? sorry for the stupid questions ,at this early stages of constuction I try to understand the general idea. Hugo #40456 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:45 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Ok, you guys that have done the tanks already, do you remember if you had a hell of a time getting the ribs in place? In order for me to get the holes in the nose to line up, I have to have the skins out of the cradle, spread open, and then rap on them with a mallet. Yes it's that bad. The regular leading edge ribs were no problem, just a little persuading and they lined right up. Honestly I can imagine the mess I will have trying to get these back in with proseal. You think Van's might have over bent the skin so the nose is clamping too hard? They do fit but getting them down to that nose hole is a real @!$ @$!! Michael Sausen -10 #352 Tanks Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:35 AM PST US From: Sean Stephens Subject: Re: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens Yes, we just had this conversation last week on the list. Look back in the archives for "tank ribs". Summary... - Put the ribs in BEFORE the skins go in the cradles. - Flute the heck out of the ribs. - What helped me was the two above plus cleco starting at the nose on top and bottom of each rib, and move from inboard to outboard side of the skin. -Sean #40303 (sealing up tanks. YUK!) RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Ok, you guys that have done the tanks already, do you remember if > you had a hell of a time getting the ribs in place? In order for me > to get the holes in the nose to line up, I have to have the skins out > of the cradle, spread open, and then rap on them with a mallet. Yes > it's that bad. > > The regular leading edge ribs were no problem, just a little > persuading and they lined right up. Honestly I can imagine the mess I > will have trying to get these back in with proseal. You think Van's > might have over bent the skin so the nose is clamping too hard? They > do fit but getting them down to that nose hole is a real @!$ @$!! > > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 Tanks > /Do not archive/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:09 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Hmm, must have been asleep at the wheel that week. The one time I don't check the archives.... oh well. I see you had the same problem eh. Honestly, I think the problem is the skins are bent just a bit to far keeping the ribs from sliding all the way in. I may try to take a tiny bit of bend out with a couple of 2x4's and see if that helps. Thanks, Michael Sausen -10 #352 Tanks Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens Subject: Re: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens Yes, we just had this conversation last week on the list. Look back in the archives for "tank ribs". Summary... - Put the ribs in BEFORE the skins go in the cradles. - Flute the heck out of the ribs. - What helped me was the two above plus cleco starting at the nose on top and bottom of each rib, and move from inboard to outboard side of the skin. -Sean #40303 (sealing up tanks. YUK!) RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Ok, you guys that have done the tanks already, do you remember if > you had a hell of a time getting the ribs in place? In order for me > to get the holes in the nose to line up, I have to have the skins out > of the cradle, spread open, and then rap on them with a mallet. Yes > it's that bad. > > The regular leading edge ribs were no problem, just a little > persuading and they lined right up. Honestly I can imagine the mess I > will have trying to get these back in with proseal. You think Van's > might have over bent the skin so the nose is clamping too hard? They > do fit but getting them down to that nose hole is a real @!$ @$!! > > > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 Tanks > /Do not archive/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:14 PM PST US From: Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: electric help --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Go to William Curits's site, he has a nice wiring diagram, link to it off Tim Olsons site www.myrv10.com, I beleive he has so good wiring info there as well. Rick S. 40185 Fuse ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:27 PM PST US From: Rick Subject: RE: RV10-List: Crow's Foot Torque DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:51 PM PST US From: "Chris , Susie McGough" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Canadain inspectors rejecting some pre-assembled parts? --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough" Thanks Perry we need to follow his sor of stuff up as if Vans does not know he cant fix it. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Perry Casson" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Canadain inspectors rejecting some pre-assembled parts? > --> RV10-List message posted by: Perry Casson > > I don't know much more than my 1st post and keep in mind this is 3rd hand > news. My inspector was not sure if it was the spars or other riveting on > fast build wings that was the issue during the pre-close inspections. > I'll be following this up when I get home next week and report what ever I > learn but with some luck the guys that had the problem are on the list and > will set the story straight. > > The other thing I plan to do is get out my calipers and be sure the tails > of the spar rivets are driven enough to meet *MIL-R-47196A * (found a copy > at: )* > > *Perry Casson > > > Chris , Susie McGough wrote: > >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie McGough" >> >> >> Perry this is of serious concern...do you have any more details as I >> would like to follow it up at Vans. > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:09 PM PST US From: "John Hasbrouck" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs Michael, I wouldn't try bending things just yet. Flute the ribs and cleco them in place starting with the noses first and working back to the trailing edge. Put one rib in, couple of clecos on the nose, next rib couple of clecos on the nose ect. then come back and add a few toward the trailing edge of each rib. Do this with the skins spread out and the ribs will pull the skins in as you go. Eventually they will slide into the cradles. After drilling and dimpling they go back together much easier, ( or at least somewhat easier ). If you try bending things now you'll add to your problems IMHO. Yes, they all fit that way as far as I know... John Hasbrouck #40264 Tanks Done! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:21 PM PST US From: Subject: RV10-List: tail cone thanks --> RV10-List message posted by: Thanks a lot to all . The skin is in position,now I have to learn countersink and dimple,I was reading Van use to put some discards in the kits for practising,not in mine. Another stupid question ,how you prevent scratches when use the microstop countersink tool,the chips you create scratch the surfece around the hole. Thanks . Ps.I have to apoligeze,this internet group it is really more valuable then what I thinks before recive the kit. Hugo another Ps.how you made a round hole in the thin materials,I made beatifuls triangles with a round bit,I must to be good. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:46 PM PST US From: James Hein Subject: Re: RV10-List: tail cone thanks --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein >Van use to put some discards in the kits for practising,not in mine. Its the stack labeled "Trim pack". It looks too nice to cut up though :) >Another stupid question ,how you prevent scratches when use the microstop countersink tool,the chips you create scratch the surfece around the hole. Thanks . After you do one hole, brush the chips off and then move to the next one. >Ps.how you made a round hole in the thin materials,I made beatifuls triangles with a round bit,I must to be good. I had received a tip on this one; You need to use a SLOW drill. What you want to do is shave the material away. Too fast and the bit chatters, resulting in what you describe. -Jim 40384, Riveting Tailcone tonight gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: >--> RV10-List message posted by: > >Thanks a lot to all . >The skin is in position,now I have to learn countersink and dimple,I was reading Van use to put some discards in the kits for practising,not in mine. >Another stupid question ,how you prevent scratches when use the microstop countersink tool,the chips you create scratch the surfece around the hole. >Thanks . >Ps.I have to apoligeze,this internet group it is really more valuable then what I thinks before recive the kit. >Hugo >another Ps.how you made a round hole in the thin materials,I made beatifuls triangles with a round bit,I must to be good. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:58 PM PST US From: PJ Seipel Subject: Re: RV10-List: tail cone thanks --> RV10-List message posted by: PJ Seipel If you're using the single hole countersink bits, they tend to leave more and deeper marks (at least mine do). I prefer the 3 flute model. Either way, you're going to get a few scratches. PJ 40032 gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: >--> RV10-List message posted by: > >Thanks a lot to all . >The skin is in position,now I have to learn countersink and dimple,I was reading Van use to put some discards in the kits for practising,not in mine. >Another stupid question ,how you prevent scratches when use the microstop countersink tool,the chips you create scratch the surfece around the hole. >Thanks . >Ps.I have to apoligeze,this internet group it is really more valuable then what I thinks before recive the kit. >Hugo >another Ps.how you made a round hole in the thin materials,I made beatifuls triangles with a round bit,I must to be good. > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:52 PM PST US From: "Russell Daves" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Minimum practical runway length for an RV-10 --> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" Having flown a 150hp CS RV-6A, and having flown Van's RV-10 demo I would recommend thinking about a minimum of 2000 foot strip for safety purposes. That is not to say that you couldn't get in or our of a 1000 foot strip, just that for day in and day out operations this 1400 + hour pilot wouldn't recommend it. In addition, for the initial fly off hours I would NEVER consider even a 2000 foot strip. The bigger the better, with cross runways as well. I would recommend that you build in your garage, move to a big airport for final assembly and fly off. If after that you want to risk a 1300 foot strip you would have a lot better feel for both the -10 and your abilities. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Charrois" Subject: RV10-List: Minimum practical runway length for an RV-10 > --> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Charrois > > Hi everyone. I've recently decided to join the ranks of RV-10 builders, > having ordered my tail/emp kit a week or so ago. It's due to arrive some > time next week, and I'm excited to get started. > > There are a couple of airports within a 30 minute drive that I could base > the plane out of (and finish the construction at when it gets too big for > the garage). However, I would much prefer to be able to keep the plane > at home if it's at all practical - to benefit both the construction > process as well as operating the plane later when completed. Having the > plane literally just outside the door when I want to go flying would be a > huge contributor to "just because" flying. > > So ideally, what I'd like to do is build a hanger at home and a grass > strip. But I have some questions. First of all, how is the RV-10 > expected to be able to handle a grass strip? Secondly, what would a > "practical" runway length be for such a strip? I've read the fully > loaded specs with a 260 hp engine (which I'm planning for) to be 500 ft > takeoff and 650 ft landing (and in the factory demo ride I recently had, > I can believe those numbers). But of course, that's assuming a perfectly > performing plane, hard surface, etc. > > The land we own is approximately 2500 feet long, but there are several > houses adjacent to the far south end. Because of this, I would plan on > using it as a one-way runway to the north, to minimize any disturbance to > the people there (takeoffs would be away from the houses, and landings > over the houses to the strip would be at low power). Fortunately, there > are no obstructions at all towards the north, nor are there likely to > ever be - just flat field for miles, and the prevailing winds would > almost always favor a northerly takeoff/landing anyway. To minimize the > disturbance to our southern neighbours, I was thinking of a runway about > 1300 feet long at the north end of the property, so there would be about > 1200 feet between the houses at the south end of the property and the > threshold. There is about a 0.9% gradient uphill towards the north. > > Obviously, the gradient and grass strip would reduce performance from the > quoted figures, but I'm wondering what you folks out there would consider > "appropriate" from a safety standpoint. Would this work? Also, how wide > of a strip would be practical? I've landed at countless 75 foot wide > strips, but would 50 feet wide be okay? Of course, the longer and wider > the better, but I'm looking for practical minimums here, which I would > probably increase a bit anyway. > > The other question pertains to our climate up here in Canada - for a > large part of the year, the ground is covered in snow. Clearing the snow > wouldn't be too much trouble - we can borrow the equipment for that. But > not having landed anything on a grass strip with a plowed snow surface, > would I just be asking for trouble? Or would it be better to fly in the > winter with skis and forget about plowing (in that vein, could skis be > outfitted to an RV-10?) > > The two airports within 30 minutes are both maintained summer and winter > with asphalt runways, so I could always use them if returning from a > flight somewhere and conditions at home aren't conducive to a safe > landing. And of course, if operating an RV-10 out of a grass strip with > the limitations I've mentioned isn't practical, I may be basing my plane > out of one of those airports anyway. But since it would be so much more > convenient (and less costly) to keep everything at home, I thought I'd > write for advice on the matter. > > Thanks for any help you can give! > > Dan > -- > Syzygy Research & Technology > Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada > Phone: 780-961-2213 > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:16 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" John, Thanks for the reply. I did all of the below on the left tank and I still needed to literally use a dead blow to get them to line up. I looked at my inventory pictures and noticed that the tank skins were sitting inside the regular LE skins and had a considerable amount of space between them and the LE's. I.e. more of a bend. That really doesn't make sense as the geometry should be the same. For the right tank skin I just took two 8ft 2x4's and clamped the skin in place right behind the LE with one. I took the other 2x4 and gently bent the skin back closer to a 90 but something like a 75 to 80. When I then proceeded to put the ribs in place they all lined up perfectly. No expletives, no hammers, no persuading, all the holes were right where they were supposed to be. Worked great! Took me all of about 20 minutes to cleco all of the right tank ribs in place where it took me 2 hours to do the left. I put a cleco in the first and third hole on all the ribs and dropped it in the cradle, the skin sucked up to the ribs no problem. I'm sure everyone had a problem fitting their ribs but mine was excessive. I had ribs distorting and starting to bend trying to get them lined up. Everything pointed to the firs 2 inches of the ribs being squeezed to much into the space. Looks like that was it. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Friggin Tanks :-) ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck Subject: Re: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs Michael, I wouldn't try bending things just yet. Flute the ribs and cleco them in place starting with the noses first and working back to the trailing edge. Put one rib in, couple of clecos on the nose, next rib couple of clecos on the nose ect. then come back and add a few toward the trailing edge of each rib. Do this with the skins spread out and the ribs will pull the skins in as you go. Eventually they will slide into the cradles. After drilling and dimpling they go back together much easier, ( or at least somewhat easier ). If you try bending things now you'll add to your problems IMHO. Yes, they all fit that way as far as I know... John Hasbrouck #40264 Tanks Done! ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:46 PM PST US From: Rick Subject: RE: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs DNA: do not archive Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:41 PM PST US From: Rick Subject: Re: RV10-List: Minimum practical runway length for an RV-10 --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Dan, I would add at least a 50' obstacle at each end of your runway just to keep your skills honed, just kidding!!! Russ has some good experience with RV's and limited strips, trust his and others advice here, I don't have that much time to make any kind of a recommendation ....gimme 5000 X 75 asphalt any day of the week! ;) Rick S. 40185 Fuse do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:47 PM PST US From: "John Hasbrouck" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs Michael, Great save! That's the 51% they talk about. Even though we're building the same kit it should be understood that Van's can make a mistake from time to time. Looks like you solved the problem. BTW while we're on the subject of mistakes, I had a problem with the W-1013C-L aileron bracket. It was not manufactured right. A fellow builder in the area had the same problem. We received our wings about mid May. Van's sent us replacements. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:52 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Cowling Trim question --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Is there someone who's done the front cowling who can answer a quick question? I'm about to trim it. The directions aren't bad, but a little vague. You center the spinner in the hole for the cowling top. Does the spinner face slope smoothly into that ridge in the cowl, so they should be level and flow together, or is the cowling supposed to be raised up at all above the spinner height? On my Sundowner, the cowl is about 1/2" taller than the spinner is, but that's a whole different plane. It can seem logically centered either way...flush, or the cowl circle about 1/4" outside of the spinner. The reason is, the area with the 3 screws on each side sticks out a bit more, so it makes it look like it could possibly not be flush. 2nd question: The cowl as supplied must not overlap the top and bottom surfaces, huh? When they're put together, it looks as if it's going to end up with the top half and bottom half butting up against eachother along the side of the cowl. I suppose that's expected since it's a hinge joint.....duh. Oh well, I guess we're all allowed a few stupid questions. Tip of the day: When drilling those UHMW blocks that the door lock pins go through....the ones that mount to the outside of the doorframe, not to the door... If you follow the directions and shim the block up on the side they say to do, you will be drilling the 3.4 degree offset hole so that it slopes in the WRONG direction to do what you need it to do. Also, if you follow the drawing and centerpunch for the 2 small holes on the side they show to punch, you'll end up with a part that doesn't work because of this slope. Read the directions, look at the pictures, then test the concept on the door and you'll see what I mean. Just try to remember this issue before you get to this point. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Cowling ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:51 PM PST US From: "Marcus Cooper" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cowling Trim question --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" Tim, I may not have the question right, but when I installed the cowling on my RV-6 the plans had me intentionally set the cowling slightly lower that the spinner(1/4", maybe more???????) to allow for the engine mounts to settle. I suspect that is why your Sundowner cowl is taller, the engine has settled more that what the manufacture allowed for (not that you have a problem with the Sundowner though, this is normal). Hopefully someone who has done this with the RV-10 will give you a solid answer, I'm rapidly approaching the cowling part, but not there yet. Marcus -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Cowling Trim question --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Is there someone who's done the front cowling who can answer a quick question? I'm about to trim it. The directions aren't bad, but a little vague. You center the spinner in the hole for the cowling top. Does the spinner face slope smoothly into that ridge in the cowl, so they should be level and flow together, or is the cowling supposed to be raised up at all above the spinner height? On my Sundowner, the cowl is about 1/2" taller than the spinner is, but that's a whole different plane. It can seem logically centered either way...flush, or the cowl circle about 1/4" outside of the spinner. The reason is, the area with the 3 screws on each side sticks out a bit more, so it makes it look like it could possibly not be flush. 2nd question: The cowl as supplied must not overlap the top and bottom surfaces, huh? When they're put together, it looks as if it's going to end up with the top half and bottom half butting up against eachother along the side of the cowl. I suppose that's expected since it's a hinge joint.....duh. Oh well, I guess we're all allowed a few stupid questions. Tip of the day: When drilling those UHMW blocks that the door lock pins go through....the ones that mount to the outside of the doorframe, not to the door... If you follow the directions and shim the block up on the side they say to do, you will be drilling the 3.4 degree offset hole so that it slopes in the WRONG direction to do what you need it to do. Also, if you follow the drawing and centerpunch for the 2 small holes on the side they show to punch, you'll end up with a part that doesn't work because of this slope. Read the directions, look at the pictures, then test the concept on the door and you'll see what I mean. Just try to remember this issue before you get to this point. Tim -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Cowling ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:31:17 PM PST US From: "Robert G. Wright" Subject: RV10-List: wire About how much wire will really be used? It doesn't seem that expensive at around $15 for 100' of 18 AWG. Other sizes of wire will be priced differently, but using this as an indicator seems good. I just don't want a whole bunch of wire hanging around afterward, and I do plan on wiring one or two extra empty lengths per bundle. Rob Checked the archives, but missed it if it's there ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:12 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson You don't need it, but...I just wanted to verify that from what I had, Sean's advice is 100% perfect. They actually went in easier after dimpling and the proseal was on. Don't know quite why. Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Current project: Doors/Windows DO NOT ARCHIVE RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Hmm, must have been asleep at the wheel that week. The one time I > don't check the archives.... oh well. I see you had the same problem > eh. Honestly, I think the problem is the skins are bent just a bit to > far keeping the ribs from sliding all the way in. I may try to take a > tiny bit of bend out with a couple of 2x4's and see if that helps. > > Thanks, > Michael Sausen > -10 #352 Tanks > > Do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens > Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 1:14 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Friggin tank ribs > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens > > Yes, we just had this conversation last week on the list. Look back in > the archives for "tank ribs". > > Summary... > > - Put the ribs in BEFORE the skins go in the cradles. > - Flute the heck out of the ribs. > - What helped me was the two above plus cleco starting at the nose on > top and bottom of each rib, and move from inboard to outboard side of > the skin. > > -Sean #40303 (sealing up tanks. YUK!) > > > RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > > Ok, you guys that have done the tanks already, do you remember if > > you had a hell of a time getting the ribs in place? In order for me > > to get the holes in the nose to line up, I have to have the skins out > > of the cradle, spread open, and then rap on them with a mallet. Yes > > it's that bad. > > > > The regular leading edge ribs were no problem, just a little > > persuading and they lined right up. Honestly I can imagine the mess I > > will have trying to get these back in with proseal. You think Van's > > might have over bent the skin so the nose is clamping too hard? They > > do fit but getting them down to that nose hole is a real @!$ @$!! > > > > > > Michael Sausen > > -10 #352 Tanks > > /Do not archive/ > > > > ==================================== > RV10-List Email Forum - > more: > bsp; > ==================================== > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:59 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: tail cone thanks --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Hugo, Don't worry about the chips. If you prime, you need to scuff anyway. Same if you paint. If you're going bare aluminum, then maybe I can see the point, but most of this stuff will be hidden anyway. As the other guy said, just brush them off and move on. When countersinking thin stuff, I try to put it on a block of wood with the same size hole in it and let the bit tip go into the wood to stabilize it. That seems to work well. Tim do not archive gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > Thanks a lot to all . The skin is in position,now I have to learn > countersink and dimple,I was reading Van use to put some discards in > the kits for practising,not in mine. Another stupid question ,how you > prevent scratches when use the microstop countersink tool,the chips > you create scratch the surfece around the hole. Thanks . Ps.I have to > apoligeze,this internet group it is really more valuable then what I > thinks before recive the kit. Hugo another Ps.how you made a round > hole in the thin materials,I made beatifuls triangles with a round > bit,I must to be good. > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:50 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: wire Robert G. Wright wrote: > About how much wire will really be used? > That all depends on what you install that needs wire! Even the same equipment installation by two different builders can vary significantly. > It doesn't seem that expensive at around $15 for 100' of 18 AWG. > Compared to all the other stuff you'll buy .... yep, it's cheap. > Other sizes of wire will be priced differently, but using this as an > indicator seems good. I just don't want a whole bunch of wire hanging > around afterward > It's on a nice spool (if you buy a whole spool to start with) and won't take up much space on your shelf. At the price of a 500' spool, it's not worth the aggravation to have to wait for a wire order to be shipped. > , and I do plan on wiring one or two extra empty lengths per bundle. > Not really a good idea. All you do is add weight, and adding the wire later is simple, so you don't gain anything. Murphy says that no matter where you put the extra wire, anything you add later will be just out of reach of that 'spare' wire :-P Linn. do not archive > > > Rob > > Checked the archives, but missed it if it's there > > > >