---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/22/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:48 AM - Re: QB fuse longeron CS question (Randy DeBauw) 2. 11:06 AM - Re: Vic Syracuse's RV-10 Flies! (James Ochs) 3. 12:21 PM - -10 modular panel (RV Builder \(Michael Sausen\)) 4. 01:09 PM - slightly disapointing visit to vans (James Ochs) 5. 03:07 PM - Oct / Nov Calendar Posted (Jim Combs) 6. 03:40 PM - Re: slightly disapointing visit to vans (John Jessen) 7. 03:52 PM - Re: Plans revisions - Don't trust your plans (Mike Kraus) 8. 04:10 PM - Re: QB fuse longeron CS question (Brian) 9. 07:04 PM - Re: QB fuse longeron CS question (Tim Olson) 10. 07:52 PM - Cushion Clamps (Larry Rosen) 11. 09:47 PM - Aft Heater Hose (DejaVu) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:57 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB fuse longeron CS question From: "Randy DeBauw" Just to let you know, in the early set of plans you were not told to c/s the longeron ( I think it was an oversite ). I c/s the skin for final assy. That worked fine. Randy ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Subject: RV10-List: QB fuse longeron CS question This may sound like a dumb question, but how many rivets did any of you QB folks have to drill out to be able to get the skin to move enough to countersink that very first rivet hole on the fuselage upper longerons??? Photo's attached... Brian #40308 (almost got that tailcone attached!) DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:38 AM PST US From: James Ochs Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vic Syracuse's RV-10 Flies! --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs Vic's plane was just spotted at KSQL... He's got all the flight instructors at my flight school drooling over (on) it. My instructor just called me and was saying "what are those dual screen EFIS systems??? It looks really nice with that three bladed prop... whens your's going to be done!?!?!?!" Good Job Vic. Glad to see you pushing that thing around the country! James Tim Olson wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > See here for photos! > http://www.myrv10.com/miscphotos/VicsRV10/plane/index.html > > Vic just CC'd me on the following note....great news! Also, finally > an MT prop flies an RV-10! > > Van & Team---- You did it again! What a great airplane. N64VC took to > the air today, 7/24/2005, for the first time. Enclosed is the > requisite RV-grin photo after landing, and I assure you the grin > needed no prompting! We started the airplane in May of 2004, SN# > 40229, and 14 1/2 months, 1700 manhours and 700 wife hours later (yes, > she was right there) we are beginning to have fun again. We used a QB > kit, and wired, painted, and upholstered it ourselves. The engine is > an I0-540-D4A5 built by Performance Engines, with AirFlow Performance > Injection, Lightspeed Ignition on top, magneto on bottom, balanced, > ported, and flow balanced, with an MT-3 Blade prop. The panel is dual > screen Chelton, Garmin 430, Sl-30, PS Engineering PM7000CD, TruTrack > Sorcerer autopilot. With only 5 hours on it this weekend ,and limited > to a traffic pattern distance from the airport during those 5 hours, > I've not been able to get any good performance numbers yet. However, > at 2650' DA, climb rates have been about 1500 fpm. We've been asking > Van for a 4 place since 1985, and he sure has delivered a winner! > > Thanks again!!! > > Vic & Carol Syracuse > 3-time repeat offenders :) > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:17 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: -10 modular panel From: "RV Builder \(Michael Sausen\)" Hey Stein, any chance you can get the cad layout of the modular panel to the epanel and panel planner guys? Michael Sausen -10 #352 ailerons do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:02 PM PST US From: James Ochs Subject: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs Hey all, Just wanted to share (gripe) an experience I had at Van's last weekend. I took a friend of mine over there who helped me build some of my project, is a student pilot, and is interested in the rv-10, but hasn't ever flown in one. We got to Van's and Bruce came down to show us the factory and do the demo flight. After a few questions it came up that my friend has not soloed yet but was close (he also has his medical / student pilot cert, its just not signed off yet). Bruce would not fly. He said that having soloed is a requirement for the demo flight and that the demo flights were only for "people they felt were serious about buying a kit, and if he hasn't soloed yet then he can't be serious." Now I know, and you know, that there are a number of people building, or getting ready to build who are *about* to begin their PPL and aren't even close to soloing. Since I had already had a demo ride, of course I was disqualified as well. Needless to say my friend and I were quite dismayed at this cavalier dismissal of a potential customer, especially since the rv-10 demo is something we went prepared to pay $50 for (and Bruce had the nerve to explain (albeit nicely) that since fuel was $4.20/gallon they had to be careful about demo flights... let's see, at $4.20/gal and average of 11-12gph shouldn't that cover expenses for a 10 - 15 minute demo?) I might also add that there was no one else there, so it wasn't like they were busy either. So for a potential $40,000+ customer with $50 for a 10 - 15 minute ride with nothing else going on he felt it was worthwile to turn away a customer based on the fact that they haven't soloed. Nice. Fortunately, Randy was around and gave us a much better demonstration than we would have gotten at the factory, even after he had taken me up the day before! (Thanks Randy!) Anyway, I guess the bottom line is you can't be serious about flying, building or owning a plane unless you've soloed. makes me wonder how anyone gets started ;) James #40400 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:07:02 PM PST US From: "Jim Combs" Subject: RV10-List: Oct / Nov Calendar Posted --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" I put two more RV-10 calendar pages up (Oct / Nov) www.infra-read.com JimC N312F - Fuselage ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:13 PM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" This is odd, indeed. I'd flown in the demo RV-10 and liked it. Took my son (flying since he was 14, soloed, but when we flew in the RV-10 he was 19, but still no ticket), and Ken took him up. Maybe because I was the potential buyer. I know of another builder who's on this list and both he and his wife do not yet have their tickets (although she is close), but he's busy building. Not sure if they've had a ride other than with Randy (bless his heart), but they are clear evidence of builders with no tickets, yet they've got their VS, rudder done and even have the wings parts in the hanger. I agree it doesn't make any sense. Unless it has something to do with insurance. Oh, well. John Jessen #40328 HS -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs Subject: RV10-List: slightly disapointing visit to vans --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs Hey all, Just wanted to share (gripe) an experience I had at Van's last weekend. I took a friend of mine over there who helped me build some of my project, is a student pilot, and is interested in the rv-10, but hasn't ever flown in one. We got to Van's and Bruce came down to show us the factory and do the demo flight. After a few questions it came up that my friend has not soloed yet but was close (he also has his medical / student pilot cert, its just not signed off yet). Bruce would not fly. He said that having soloed is a requirement for the demo flight and that the demo flights were only for "people they felt were serious about buying a kit, and if he hasn't soloed yet then he can't be serious." Now I know, and you know, that there are a number of people building, or getting ready to build who are *about* to begin their PPL and aren't even close to soloing. Since I had already had a demo ride, of course I was disqualified as well. Needless to say my friend and I were quite dismayed at this cavalier dismissal of a potential customer, especially since the rv-10 demo is something we went prepared to pay $50 for (and Bruce had the nerve to explain (albeit nicely) that since fuel was $4.20/gallon they had to be careful about demo flights... let's see, at $4.20/gal and average of 11-12gph shouldn't that cover expenses for a 10 - 15 minute demo?) I might also add that there was no one else there, so it wasn't like they were busy either. So for a potential $40,000+ customer with $50 for a 10 - 15 minute ride with nothing else going on he felt it was worthwile to turn away a customer based on the fact that they haven't soloed. Nice. Fortunately, Randy was around and gave us a much better demonstration than we would have gotten at the factory, even after he had taken me up the day before! (Thanks Randy!) Anyway, I guess the bottom line is you can't be serious about flying, building or owning a plane unless you've soloed. makes me wonder how anyone gets started ;) James #40400 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:52:06 PM PST US From: "Mike Kraus" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Plans revisions - Don't trust your plans --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" If you all think Van's kits/plans/service is something to complain about, you should try dealing with Murphy Aircraft.... The Moose tail kit is just the empennage (no tailcone), has only prepunched skins, and is 2x the price of the RV-10 tail cone kit.... Plus 2X the shipping.... The plans are more like pre RV-3 version 1.0 plans and they won't even give you any blueprints because they are afraid someone might steal the designs...... The instructions are pretty much just paragraphs full of words..... If you want to order replacement parts, you better order them before you mess the part up or it will hold you up.... Van's tries to ship complete kits, but they have never told me in the last 2 planes I built that it would all be there.... Especially on what is considered a new kit.... Like someone said last week, most of these fittings/rivets/hardware etc. you should have as spare parts anyways, since you will be maintaining the plane.... Quit wasting time complaining to the list, if you don't like what you get for a very reasonable price, go buy a flying plane.... Sorry, I had to vent... One last thing, go build a RV-3 or RV-4 then you will appreciate what an all around value the RV-10 is..... P.S. I don't work for Van's nor am I associated with Van's in any way... But I do know the RV-10 is the best quality and complete kit available, including the step by step assembly drawings. If you don't like it, I guarantee you won't like building anything else out there. -Mike RV-4 Flying RV-7 Flying RV-10 Flying, someday -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: Plans revisions - Don't trust your plans --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson A note about revisions: You cannot trust the plans that come with your kit, so verify your plans revisions!!! I bought my FWF kit on 5/25/2005. My plans on page FF1-4 were dated something like 1/26/2005. One of the recent parts that I thought I was missing has turned up... I had almost called to complain to Van's about a missing fitting, but as it turned out, the plans had changed on 2/22/05, and now that fitting was no longer required. Don't ask me why when I purchased plans on 5/25, 3 months after the revision, they didn't send me a complete set of plans with the revision in them. This to me is another spectacular example of where customer service should absolutely be improved. In addition, it would be no major deal for any organized company to send out email notices to their RV-10 builders to notify them of plans changes.....but I suppose why bother, from what it appears, usually when they have problems with the plans or parts, they thend to just ignore the people who call and tell them anyway. I'm not trying to beat them up, but I'd think that when someone puts down over $40,000 with a company, they'd send them with current set of plans, or at least send the revision along with them. That said, I do check their site periodically for updates, and I had downloaded and printed them all. At the time, I hadn't even received the FWF kit plans, so the paper was still stuffed with my finishing kit plans, so it got overlooked. I guess I assumed that when you buy a kit, you're receiving the latest and greatest plans. -- Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:29 PM PST US From: "Brian" Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB fuse longeron CS question Thanks Randy. Guess It was a little hard for me to believe that machine CS the skin was the right thing to do. After your post I tested it on some scrap material of the same thickness of the fuse side skin and longeron. While I am still somewhat concerned about the amount of material removed from the skin, it does seem to work fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: Randy DeBauw To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:47 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: QB fuse longeron CS question Just to let you know, in the early set of plans you were not told to c/s the longeron ( I think it was an oversite ). I c/s the skin for final assy. That worked fine. Randy From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:30 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: QB fuse longeron CS question This may sound like a dumb question, but how many rivets did any of you QB folks have to drill out to be able to get the skin to move enough to countersink that very first rivet hole on the fuselage upper longerons??? Photo's attached... Brian #40308 (almost got that tailcone attached!) DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:50 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB fuse longeron CS question --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Hey Brian, Actually, there are going to be many places where countersinking the skin might be a good way to go. If you do a good job countersinking, it should be just fine. In fact, some of the nicest looking rivets are created that way. To do it real good though, make sure you are countersinking with enough material depth to the hole, or else use something behind it to back it up...it'll keep the countersink tool from chattering. Tim Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 DO NOT ARCHIVE Brian wrote: > Thanks Randy. Guess It was a little hard for me to believe that machine > CS the skin was the right thing to do. After your post I tested it on > some scrap material of the same thickness of the fuse side skin and > longeron. While I am still somewhat concerned about the amount of > material removed from the skin, it does seem to work fine. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Randy DeBauw > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Thursday, September 22, 2005 9:47 AM > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: QB fuse longeron CS question > > Just to let you know, in the early set of plans you were not told to > c/s the longeron ( I think it was an oversite ). I c/s the skin for > final assy. That worked fine. Randy > > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Brian > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 21, 2005 7:30 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: QB fuse longeron CS question > > > > This may sound like a dumb question, but how many rivets did any of > you QB folks have to drill out to be able to get the skin to move > enough to countersink that very first rivet hole on the fuselage > upper longerons??? Photo's attached... > > > > Brian > > #40308 (almost got that tailcone attached!) > > > > > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:01 PM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: RV10-List: Cushion Clamps --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen Would someone tell me the difference between a cushioned line support clamp (MS21919-DEG) and a wedge cushioned line clamp (MS21919-WDG). Also, are angle brackets commercially available to mount the cable clamps perpendicular to a hole through a bulkhead? Larry Rosen RV-10 40356 N205EN (reserved) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:42 PM PST US From: "DejaVu" Subject: RV10-List: Aft Heater Hose What the (*&# is up with the 2" aft heater hose going over the fuel valve bracket that only has 1" vertical space? Anyone routing it under the bracket or see any problem with this? Anh #141