Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:42 AM - Lycoming Engines (Nikolaos Napoli)
2. 11:47 AM - Re: Lycoming Engines (William Curtis)
3. 12:05 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
4. 12:16 PM - Re: Interior Paint Options (Tim Olson)
5. 12:24 PM - Re: Lycoming Engines (Tim Olson)
6. 12:25 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines (Tim Olson)
7. 12:54 PM - Re: Lycoming Engines (Phillips, Jack)
8. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines (Deems Davis)
9. 02:16 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
10. 03:03 PM - Re: aileron trim (Jesse Saint)
11. 04:58 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines (bruce snyder)
12. 05:36 PM - Re: Interior Paint Options (McGANN, Ron)
13. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines (Deems Davis)
14. 06:34 PM - Re: Lycoming Engines (rv10builder)
15. 07:01 PM - Re: Lycoming Engines (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
16. 07:10 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines (Bill and Tami Britton)
17. 07:24 PM - Re: aileron trim (ddddsp1@juno.com)
18. 07:43 PM - Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
19. 07:52 PM - Re: Lycoming Engines (John W. Cox)
20. 09:08 PM - Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber (bob.kaufmann)
21. 09:19 PM - Chelton Certification stuff (Tim Olson)
22. 09:53 PM - Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Lycoming Engines |
Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and noticed that
Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know if this has
the new tapped technology?
Has anyone compared the TMX540 (Mattituck) to the Aerosport?
Thanks
Niko
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Lycoming Engines |
Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to $42,650, an over
$3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of the 250HP O-540 for $37,500.
Other than fuel injection, anyone know what else is different between
these engines? It would seem you could get the O and add fuel injection for a
lot less than $5,150 or FADEC for a little more. I think Ill be looking at the
IO-540 clone from Aerosport. Maybe in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider
the 210HP Continental IO-360.
>Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and noticed
>that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know if
>this has the new tapped technology?
William Curtis
40237 - wings
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Lycoming Engines |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
You can get a Silverhawk EX package from Mattituck to convert to an IO for about
3200. I wasn't aware that there were any FADEC options for the Lyc 540 - am
I missing something?
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Lycoming Engines
Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to $42,650, an over
$3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of the 250HP O-540 for $37,500.
Other than fuel injection, anyone know what else is different between these
engines? It would seem you could get the O and add fuel injection for a lot
less than $5,150 or FADEC for a little more. I think I'll be looking at the
IO-540 clone from Aerosport. Maybe in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider
the 210HP Continental IO-360.
>Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and noticed
>that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know if
>this has the new tapped technology?
William Curtis
40237 - wings
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Interior Paint Options |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I did prime with Akzo and then painted inside my interior all over.
I didn't know you shouldn't topcoat the Akzo...did you hear
that from an official source? I know you need to scuff it first
if you paint over it.
At any rate, my guess is that for most people, a good approach
would be to use something like the PPG DX1791 primer and PPG
Concept or other paint for much of the interior (the visible
parts). As for things like the floor panels and under the
floors though, the Akzo should be great. I ended up painting
color over all the interior, even parts that will get covered
by carpet and sidewalls.....but that is just a waste.
If you do as above, the corrosion proofing should be a non-issue.
The DX1791+color topcoat is the same as the exterior. The
Akzo will seal it up for the non-painted areas. The only
real question to answer that only you can do, is "do I want
to prime my interior". My answer for me was yes. Many others
have the opposite answer. To each - his own.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
McGANN, Ron wrote:
> G'day all,
>
> I was wondering what options we have for painting the inside of the
> cabin/fuselage.
>
> I have been using Valspar Super Anzapon (BMS 10-11 similar to Akzo) for
> corrosion protection of the emp and wings and I'm very happy with the
> results. This stuff is not supposed to be top coated though, (without
> additional prep work).
>
> I would like to go with internal trim from classic aero designs or
> similar, but I'm not clear on what is needed for corrosion protection of
> the fuse (ie primer) versus those exposed cabin wear surfaces that need
> to be 'prettied up'. Has the general approach been to prime as per the
> emp/wings and then top coat, or are there other ways?
>
> Any suggestions or pointers to other info would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Ron
> #187 fuse.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engines |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, didn't even notice that......$42,650 for a new Lyc now.
Hmmm.... Let's see.... Lycoming announces a new "experimental"
version of their engine at OSH, but it's only a couple thousand
less than the standard one. Then, the price jumps up about
$3,000 from Van's. (this isn't saying anything bad about Van's)
I'm wondering though....does that mean that in reality, the
new "kit" engine is now Van's old price, and the one Van's
is listing is actually the "certified" one?
It just smells to me kind of like lycoming is pulling one
of those "On sale - 10% off!!" deals, after putting on a
10%+ price increase.
I was worried with the new kit ECI's coming out that my
aerosport purchase would have been paying a bit on the
high side....but at least this makes me feel even better
about the price I paid.
You're right to look at that TMX540 though....that one
may be a great way to go. Aerosport got my order already,
so I didn't have a choice, but Aerosport has such a fantastic
reputation (and I can actually see it in the quality of care
they put into my engine) that I just won't feel bad about
that purchase.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Nikolaos Napoli wrote:
> Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
> noticed that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does
> anyone know if this has the new tapped technology?
>
> Has anyone compared the TMX540 (Mattituck) to the Aerosport?
>
> Thanks
>
> Niko
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Lycoming Engines |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
William, you're not still holding out for that Continental,
are you??? I haven't heard of one single builder yet out
of 450+ who's going that way......but if there are some,
it would be cool to hear from y'all.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
William Curtis wrote:
> Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to $42,650,
> an over $3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of the 250HP
> O-540 for $37,500. Other than fuel injection, anyone know what else is
> different between these engines? It would seem you could get the O and
> add fuel injection for a lot less than $5,150 or FADEC for a little
> more. I think Ill be looking at the IO-540 clone from Aerosport. Maybe
> in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider the 210HP Continental
> IO-360.
>
> >Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
> noticed
> >that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know if
> >this has the new tapped technology?
>
> William Curtis
> 40237 - wings
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 7
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| Subject: | Lycoming Engines |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
I talked with Superior at OSH about when they would have an IO-540
version of their XP-360 4 cylinder engine. They said they are actively
working on it and expect to have it available in about 2 years. Price
is expected to be about $5K - $10K less than a new Lycoming. Maybe that
was $5K less than the old price, $10K less than the new price.
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol Air Camper Builder
New RV-4 Owner
Soon to be RV-10 Builder
-----Original Message-----
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wow, didn't even notice that......$42,650 for a new Lyc now.
Hmmm.... Let's see.... Lycoming announces a new "experimental"
version of their engine at OSH, but it's only a couple thousand
less than the standard one. Then, the price jumps up about
$3,000 from Van's. (this isn't saying anything bad about Van's)
I'm wondering though....does that mean that in reality, the
new "kit" engine is now Van's old price, and the one Van's
is listing is actually the "certified" one?
It just smells to me kind of like lycoming is pulling one
of those "On sale - 10% off!!" deals, after putting on a
10%+ price increase.
I was worried with the new kit ECI's coming out that my
aerosport purchase would have been paying a bit on the
high side....but at least this makes me feel even better
about the price I paid.
You're right to look at that TMX540 though....that one
may be a great way to go. Aerosport got my order already,
so I didn't have a choice, but Aerosport has such a fantastic
reputation (and I can actually see it in the quality of care
they put into my engine) that I just won't feel bad about
that purchase.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Lycoming Engines |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
This is making the Egg/Subie look more and more interesting to me. He'
going to be @ Copperstate this weekend, and I look forward to hearing
1st hand about his plans for the RV-10 installation.
(I just saw on ANN an AD for Lyc 360 & 540 cranks, maybe this is how Lyc
expects to pay for it)
Deems Davis # 406
Wing Main Spar
http://deemsrv10.com/
William Curtis wrote:
> Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to
> $42,650, an over $3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of
> the 250HP O-540 for $37,500. Other than fuel injection, anyone know
> what else is different between these engines? It would seem you could
> get the O and add fuel injection for a lot less than $5,150 or FADEC
> for a little more. I think Ill be looking at the IO-540 clone from
> Aerosport. Maybe in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider the
> 210HP Continental IO-360.
>
> >Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
> noticed
> >that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know if
> >this has the new tapped technology?
>
> William Curtis
> 40237 - wings
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: Lycoming Engines |
Deems,
A comment Rob Hickman had to me about this subject really struck home. How
hard will it be to get it through a condition inspection if you are not the builder.
I would expect it to impact the perceived and real value without a lyc
but if you ever want to sell it how hard will it be for the buyer to get it inspected?
Might be a bigger impact than expected leading to an unsellable aircraft.
I would like to hear Jan's comment on this and some real world experiences
before I jump on this boat.
Another thing that has been rumored is that insurance companies are going to
treat the -10 differently than other RV's in respect to an "unapproved" engine.
This would also be a serious deal killer if insurance sky rockets or is completely
unavailable. Like I said this is a rumor that maybe someone can confirm
the next time they talk to an agent.
These are two things you might want to bring up. I for one would love to get
positive answers to these two items as it would provide, what I feel, would be
a viable alternative to the $$$ Lyc's. Unfortunately they are both deal killers
also, as I suspect they would be for most other people.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Lycoming Engines
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
This is making the Egg/Subie look more and more interesting to me. He'
going to be @ Copperstate this weekend, and I look forward to hearing 1st hand
about his plans for the RV-10 installation.
(I just saw on ANN an AD for Lyc 360 & 540 cranks, maybe this is how Lyc expects
to pay for it)
Deems Davis # 406
Wing Main Spar
http://deemsrv10.com/
William Curtis wrote:
> Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to
> $42,650, an over $3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of
> the 250HP O-540 for $37,500. Other than fuel injection, anyone know
> what else is different between these engines? It would seem you could
> get the O and add fuel injection for a lot less than $5,150 or FADEC
> for a little more. I think I'll be looking at the IO-540 clone from
> Aerosport. Maybe in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider the
> 210HP Continental IO-360.
>
> >Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
> noticed
> >that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know
> >if this has the new tapped technology?
>
> William Curtis
> 40237 - wings
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 10
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The phone number for the AeroTrim guy is 305-864-3336. I think we paid $175
each for the set, plus the required servo relay deck from Ray Allen so we
could use the trim switches in our Infinity Aerospace stick grip.
Sorry for the delay.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org/>
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wade
Subject: RE: RV10-List: aileron trim
Thanks Michael, will check on the Van's trim option. I still want to look at
the aerotrim also, but haven't found it yet.
Jim Wade
Mississippi
-------Original Message-------
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: aileron trim
Yep, going with the Van's aileron trim option. Don't know if it's on their
web page or not, came out the same time as OSH.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wade
Subject: RV10-List: aileron trim
Anyone putting aileron trim in?? Does the plane need one? Heard it mentioned
a few times. Has anyone tried to attach a Rosen sunvisor to the cabin
structure?? I have Rosen's in my T210 and they are great when the sun is
bright, also you can move them to the side if needed. Would be a very nice
addition with all that glass.
Jim Wade
40383 ( no type this time)
Slow build everything
Fuselage ready to close floors and install panel.
Wings ready for top skins.
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: Lycoming Engines |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bruce snyder" <SNYDER888@peoplepc.com>
I would seriously consider the Continental if Van's would come up with the
FWF package for it. Without that, I'll opt for the IO-540 like everyone
else and I'd bet I'm not the only one out there.
Bruce Snyder #40353
QB fuselage in a crate sitting in the garage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Lycoming Engines
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
William, you're not still holding out for that Continental,
are you??? I haven't heard of one single builder yet out
of 450+ who's going that way......but if there are some,
it would be cool to hear from y'all.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
William Curtis wrote:
> Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to $42,650,
> an over $3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of the 250HP
> O-540 for $37,500. Other than fuel injection, anyone know what else is
> different between these engines? It would seem you could get the O and
> add fuel injection for a lot less than $5,150 or FADEC for a little
> more. I think I'll be looking at the IO-540 clone from Aerosport. Maybe
> in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider the 210HP Continental
> IO-360.
>
> >Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
> noticed
> >that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know if
> >this has the new tapped technology?
>
> William Curtis
> 40237 - wings
> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Interior Paint Options |
Did some more research on this. I am using Valspar Super Anzapon compatible with
Boeing spec BMS 10-11 Type 1. Unfortunately I misplaced my tech data sheet,
but I am pretty sure you need to scuff and reprime if you want to topcoat the
Super Anzapon. Makes sense really, it is a fluid resistant paint system and
I would not expect a good top coat-to-primer bond if the primer is supposed to
'resist' any fluid.
It doesn't look like the Akzo stuff provided by ACS is BMS 10-11 Type l compliant <http://www.akzonobelaerospace.com/products/DataSheets/463-12-8.pdf>
I see nothing in the Akzo data sheet to indicate it can't be top coated, so I stand
corrected.
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Interior Paint Options
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I did prime with Akzo and then painted inside my interior all over.
I didn't know you shouldn't topcoat the Akzo...did you hear
that from an official source? I know you need to scuff it first
if you paint over it.
At any rate, my guess is that for most people, a good approach
would be to use something like the PPG DX1791 primer and PPG
Concept or other paint for much of the interior (the visible
parts). As for things like the floor panels and under the
floors though, the Akzo should be great. I ended up painting
color over all the interior, even parts that will get covered
by carpet and sidewalls.....but that is just a waste.
If you do as above, the corrosion proofing should be a non-issue.
The DX1791+color topcoat is the same as the exterior. The
Akzo will seal it up for the non-painted areas. The only
real question to answer that only you can do, is "do I want
to prime my interior". My answer for me was yes. Many others
have the opposite answer. To each - his own.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
McGANN, Ron wrote:
> G'day all,
>
> I was wondering what options we have for painting the inside of the
> cabin/fuselage.
>
> I have been using Valspar Super Anzapon (BMS 10-11 similar to Akzo) for
> corrosion protection of the emp and wings and I'm very happy with the
> results. This stuff is not supposed to be top coated though, (without
> additional prep work).
>
> I would like to go with internal trim from classic aero designs or
> similar, but I'm not clear on what is needed for corrosion protection of
> the fuse (ie primer) versus those exposed cabin wear surfaces that need
> to be 'prettied up'. Has the general approach been to prime as per the
> emp/wings and then top coat, or are there other ways?
>
> Any suggestions or pointers to other info would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Ron
> #187 fuse.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Lycoming Engines |
DNA: do not archive
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engines |
Not sure there really is much of a difference (except in price):
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/190317-1.html
I myself intend to place my deposit in January and am leaning towards the Mattituck
given the significant difference in price posted on their respective sites.
I would however go for a BPA engine if the price was comparable. (Alan, you
out there?) : )
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
Fuselage connected to tailcone!
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-N104BS
Do not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Nikolaos Napoli
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Lycoming Engines
Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and noticed
that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know if this
has the new tapped technology?
Has anyone compared the TMX540 (Mattituck) to the Aerosport?
Thanks
Nikon
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Engines |
I went with Aerosport Power's IO-540. Did a lot of checking. Think they
offer a very good engine, and for the few that have gotten them, I believe they
will agree.
Grumpy #40404
Message 16
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spamd1.ruraltel.net
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Lycoming Engines |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william@gbta.net>
Deems, get all the info you can get out of Jan at Copperstate and please
report back. I've been interested in his engines since I first found out
about them a couple years back. I was ready to buy one of his 2.5's when I
was planning on a RV-7, but now that I'm building a -10 I really hope he can
make the H-6 work. The only thing that still bugs me a little is the high
RPM's on take off. I know the engines do that all the time in the cars, but
it just sounds too high. Probably won't be a problem.
Anyway, please report back if you have time.
Bill Britton
RV-10 #40137
Elevators in progress
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Lycoming Engines
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> This is making the Egg/Subie look more and more interesting to me. He'
> going to be @ Copperstate this weekend, and I look forward to hearing
> 1st hand about his plans for the RV-10 installation.
> (I just saw on ANN an AD for Lyc 360 & 540 cranks, maybe this is how Lyc
> expects to pay for it)
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Wing Main Spar
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> William Curtis wrote:
>
> > Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to
> > $42,650, an over $3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of
> > the 250HP O-540 for $37,500. Other than fuel injection, anyone know
> > what else is different between these engines? It would seem you could
> > get the O and add fuel injection for a lot less than $5,150 or FADEC
> > for a little more. I think Ill be looking at the IO-540 clone from
> > Aerosport. Maybe in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider the
> > 210HP Continental IO-360.
> >
> > >Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
> > noticed
> > >that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know
if
> > >this has the new tapped technology?
> >
> > William Curtis
> > 40237 - wings
> > http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>
>
Message 17
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The trim servo kit from Van's is $275. Why is AEROTRIM servo trim kit only $175?
DEAN
The trim servo kit from Van's is $275. Why is AEROTRIM servo trim kit only $175?
DEAN
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber |
I'll throw a nickel on the grass (as the old fighter pilot song goes).
Going the QB route, with some great (and RV experienced helpers). At least a
year to complete, some of which is lead time for Van to deliver QB kits.
With new engine (rather than some clunker rebuild), new prop and REAL IFR
package (with backup), probably $150k is a good ball park.
You can do it for less, but with increased risk.
I figure.....$120k and a 2nd class machine that is VFR or $150k and a first
class machine with reall IFR capability. And you'll be head to head with the
Cirrus and Lancair bubbas, who have $500k+ in their machines.
It's your call.....
Probably get strafed by others for my opinion.
Grumpy 40404
In a message dated 10/5/2005 9:29:49 PM Central Standard Time,
jjessen@rcn.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Mike,
Good questions. A trip through the land of RV web sites will help you,
greatly. Also, search the archives. There are many references there as to
the time to build and costs.
I cannot do anything but give you a projected cost range that I came up with
for my purposes (IFR panel, new engine, etc), and that was between $120,000
to $140,000. I hope the estimated range is high; I doubt it.
But to me, the one thing that disturbed me about your post was the "need" to
get this done within a year or less. Randy, the first totally completed
RV-10 to fly, was finished in 20 months, with help, both in terms of
physical labor, but also in terms of subsections being farmed out, such as
the panel. (Randy can fill you in on exactly what were his shortcuts.)
Twenty months is fast, my friend. I expect to take between 24 and 48
months, depending if I, too, go QB, which is still being debated. For a
plane of this complexity, anything south of 24 months would be proud to crow
about, but less than 12? Please don't set that as your goal. This stuff is
doable, but it is not strictly a Lego or erector set.
By the way, I work on it each evening for 2 hours (when I'm not traveling on
business) and each and every weekend for at least 6 hours (when I'm not
being pulled away by others who don't understand the passion and addiction,
but whose needs must be recognized - none of us are total recluses, yet),
and there's no way that I could get it done in less time than Randy's 20
months. I have all the tools, and the requisite knowledge and skills, and
there's no way. In short, enjoy the process, build well and have some
fun...or, buy one already built. I'm sure there will be a few up for sale
soon.
My best,
John Jessen
40328 HS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Lee
Subject: RV10-List: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Lee" <miklleen@hotmail.com>
OK I am sure this has been asked before, but maybe someoneone could send me
copies of any list digests with information on this, or just reply directly.
I am ver seriously considering an RV-10 project. What I would like is
information from real builders on the following:
Assuming the following:
1) RV-10 Quick build kit
2) Builder has good mechanical aptitude and electonics experience.
3) Never built an airplane before, or any project of this size.
4) Planning to keep customizations to a minimum.
5) Need to keep costs down, planning on finding a used mid time engine, CS
prop, analog engine gauges, basic JPI engine monitor, will shell out $ for a
Garmin 530 / 430 combo and indicators.
6) Want an IFR platform (hence the 530 / 430 combo)
7) GPS / Nav coupled auto pilot with altitude hold.
8) Will paint myself, will have uphoulstry done.
9) Basic sound proofing.
10) Wingtip stobes, plus stobe beacon, otherwise standard lighting with taxi
/ landing light.
Can I get an estimate of build time and costs? What types of unexpected
costs that are not in the above are there?
Anyone else out there with similar goals / expectaions?
What are other builders doing to keep costs down?
I know I can save some $$ by buying a standard kit instead of a quick build,
but I have a need to have the aircraft done in less than a year, working
evenings and weekends.
THANKS!!!!! for any and all help!
Mike
Message 19
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| Subject: | Lycoming Engines |
Brian, if you knew the differences between the Mattituck TMX540 and
BPA's product, you would know the price difference and answer your own
question. It's a mater of choice, feature and quality. Now don't
forget a Forsling Exhaust System while you are at the Apples and Oranges
comparison. I am sure Alan would agree quietly on the side. You will
get what you pay for.
John - $00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lycoming Engines
Not sure there really is much of a difference (except in price):
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/190317-1.html
I myself intend to place my deposit in January and am leaning towards
the Mattituck given the significant difference in price posted on their
respective sites. I would however go for a BPA engine if the price was
comparable. (Alan, you out there?) : )
Brian Sutherland
Nashville, TN
Fuselage connected to tailcone!
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-N104BS
Do not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Nikolaos Napoli <mailto:owl40188@yahoo.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Lycoming Engines
Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one
and noticed that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does
anyone know if this has the new tapped technology?
Has anyone compared the TMX540 (Mattituck) to the Aerosport?
Thanks
Nikon
Message 20
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| Subject: | Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber |
My nickel after talking to Misty pilot, is IFR, rotary 20B, all glass, and
under 100
Bob K
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GenGrumpy@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber
I'll throw a nickel on the grass (as the old fighter pilot song goes).
Going the QB route, with some great (and RV experienced helpers). At least
a year to complete, some of which is lead time for Van to deliver QB kits.
With new engine (rather than some clunker rebuild), new prop and REAL IFR
package (with backup), probably $150k is a good ball park.
You can do it for less, but with increased risk.
I figure.....$120k and a 2nd class machine that is VFR or $150k and a first
class machine with reall IFR capability. And you'll be head to head with
the Cirrus and Lancair bubbas, who have $500k+ in their machines.
It's your call.....
Probably get strafed by others for my opinion.
Grumpy 40404
In a message dated 10/5/2005 9:29:49 PM Central Standard Time,
jjessen@rcn.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Mike,
Good questions. A trip through the land of RV web sites will help you,
greatly. Also, search the archives. There are many references there as to
the time to build and costs.
I cannot do anything but give you a projected cost range that I came up with
for my purposes (IFR panel, new engine, etc), and that was between $120,000
to $140,000. I hope the estimated range is high; I doubt it.
But to me, the one thing that disturbed me about your post was the "need" to
get this done within a year or less. Randy, the first totally completed
RV-10 to fly, was finished in 20 months, with help, both in terms of
physical labor, but also in terms of subsections being farmed out, such as
the panel. (Randy can fill you in on exactly what were his shortcuts.)
Twenty months is fast, my friend. I expect to take between 24 and 48
months, depending if I, too, go QB, which is still being debated. For a
plane of this complexity, anything south of 24 months would be proud to crow
about, but less than 12? Please don't set that as your goal. This stuff is
doable, but it is not strictly a Lego or erector set.
By the way, I work on it each evening for 2 hours (when I'm not traveling on
business) and each and every weekend for at least 6 hours (when I'm not
being pulled away by others who don't understand the passion and addiction,
but whose needs must be recognized - none of us are total recluses, yet),
and there's no way that I could get it done in less time than Randy's 20
months. I have all the tools, and the requisite knowledge and skills, and
there's no way. In short, enjoy the process, build well and have some
fun...or, buy one already built. I'm sure there will be a few up for sale
soon.
My best,
John Jessen
40328 HS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Lee
Subject: RV10-List: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Lee" <miklleen@hotmail.com>
OK I am sure this has been asked before, but maybe someoneone could send me
copies of any list digests with information on this, or just reply directly.
I am ver seriously considering an RV-10 project. What I would like is
information from real builders on the following:
Assuming the following:
1) RV-10 Quick build kit
2) Builder has good mechanical aptitude and electonics experience.
3) Never built an airplane before, or any project of this size.
4) Planning to keep customizations to a minimum.
5) Need to keep costs down, planning on finding a used mid time engine, CS
prop, analog engine gauges, basic JPI engine monitor, will shell out $ for a
Garmin 530 / 430 combo and indicators.
6) Want an IFR platform (hence the 530 / 430 combo)
7) GPS / Nav coupled auto pilot with altitude hold.
8) Will paint myself, will have uphoulstry done.
9) Basic sound proofing.
10) Wingtip stobes, plus stobe beacon, otherwise standard lighting with taxi
/ landing light.
Can I get an estimate of build time and costs? What types of unexpected
costs that are not in the above are there?
Anyone else out there with similar goals / expectaions?
What are other builders doing to keep costs down?
I know I can save some $$ by buying a standard kit instead of a quick build,
but I have a need to have the aircraft done in less than a year, working
evenings and weekends.
THANKS!!!!! for any and all help!
Mike
Message 21
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| Subject: | Chelton Certification stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
In case you don't watch the AvWeb news, they have a smal
bit of info on Chelton's latest moves here:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/484-full.html
Apparently the Chelton system is now certified to cover all
large part 23 aircraft, and they're even installing them
on some big airliners. Also some cool stuff where they added
FLIR and cool stuff. It's pretty exciting to see where
they're taking all of this technology. I just can't
wait to actually fly behind it.
If I finish the build and fly-off before SNF, I'll have to
meet some of you and maybe do a few rides.
Tim
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mike,
I hate to say it, but, by the questions asked, I think it would be
good if you spent some time gathering some real numbers on all the
various parts, and took some time to get a full overview of the
project. I know I didn't itemize my panel instruments until it
was time to start on the panel, and I found myself off by a couple
of tens of thousands. The RV-10 is definitely not a project for
everyone, on sheer cost alone. It does fit the bill for many peoples
"mission" which is ultimately one of the most important things, but
taking on a project like this deserves some serious planning or
you may end up being one of the people who sells out their kit
well before it's completed.
As you already noted, #1, if you're on a tighter budget, a Quick Build
is going to be out of the question. Plan on *realistically* spending
a minimum of $100,000 to finish the plane if you build anything like
the large percentage of RV-10's being built....and that's probably
a low number. Yes, you will find the guy who puts in a very used
engine, prop, or maybe an alternative engine, and saves some money
on those items...but I would very much think you won't see more
than a small few -10's that can come in under $100,000.
You'll also find that the kit and "big" items might make up a lot
of the cost, but with this kit's size and the fiberglass, you're going
to have a lot of small costs that add up too...not to mention the
growing list of things that we find are not included in the kit.
Seat covers, stick grips, E-glass, and many things come to mind.
Even if you build exactly to plans, and build a VFR plane, all
QB, you're probably not going to finish the kit in under a year
of night's and weekends....unless you're willing to give up your
entire personal life for a full year. Even just getting delivery
of all the components will slow you down and could delay you
from finishing in a year, if you don't order the entire kit
up front.
Hopefully that doesn't turn you off too much. Everyone would
love to have another -10 builder on the list, but I know I myself
would like to only see a builder start if they're actually
going to be able to finish. For those that have quit the build,
I'm sure it's an awful feeling, and I wouldn't want to lead
anyone into building a kit that's beyond their means or
lifestyle and time just because it's a cool kit.
As a datapoint, I've got a few hundred hours left, am painting
my plane this week (I hope), have currently over 1100 hours
into it with a projected build time of just over 2 years.
(QB fuse only, but the wings build quick anyway)
I'm probably going to come out in the mid $160K range on
cost....which is getting easier to predict now since
almost everything I need to finish is here.
Yeah, the panel's a bit much, but seeing as how you're already
hooked on 430's and 530's from the sound of it, yours won't
end up being just a cheap one either.
Good luck with your decision. It'll be great to hear the
other answers you'll get too.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mike Lee wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Lee" <miklleen@hotmail.com>
>
> OK I am sure this has been asked before, but maybe someoneone could send
> me copies of any list digests with information on this, or just reply
> directly.
>
> I am ver seriously considering an RV-10 project. What I would like is
> information from real builders on the following:
>
> Assuming the following:
> 1) RV-10 Quick build kit
> 2) Builder has good mechanical aptitude and electonics experience.
> 3) Never built an airplane before, or any project of this size.
> 4) Planning to keep customizations to a minimum.
> 5) Need to keep costs down, planning on finding a used mid time engine,
> CS prop, analog engine gauges, basic JPI engine monitor, will shell out
> $ for a Garmin 530 / 430 combo and indicators.
> 6) Want an IFR platform (hence the 530 / 430 combo)
> 7) GPS / Nav coupled auto pilot with altitude hold.
> 8) Will paint myself, will have uphoulstry done.
> 9) Basic sound proofing.
> 10) Wingtip stobes, plus stobe beacon, otherwise standard lighting with
> taxi / landing light.
>
> Can I get an estimate of build time and costs? What types of unexpected
> costs that are not in the above are there?
>
> Anyone else out there with similar goals / expectaions?
>
> What are other builders doing to keep costs down?
>
> I know I can save some $$ by buying a standard kit instead of a quick
> build, but I have a need to have the aircraft done in less than a year,
> working evenings and weekends.
>
> THANKS!!!!! for any and all help!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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