Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:21 AM - Engine (Paul Walter)
2. 03:51 AM - Re: Wing order + components (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
3. 03:51 AM - Re: Lycoming Engines (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
4. 05:10 AM - Re: Quick build (Larry Rosen)
5. 06:20 AM - Re: Quick build -> Akzo (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
6. 06:34 AM - Re: Engine (Jesse Saint)
7. 09:27 AM - Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber (Rick)
8. 09:36 AM - Re: Wing order + components (Rick)
9. 09:44 AM - Re: Engine (JOHN STARN)
10. 09:55 AM - Re: Lycoming Engines (John W. Cox)
11. 10:02 AM - Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber (Jesse Saint)
12. 10:08 AM - Re: Wing order + components (Jesse Saint)
13. 10:38 AM - Thanks for the info everyone! (James Hein)
14. 10:41 AM - Heated Pitot, AoA ports (James Hein)
15. 11:14 AM - Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports (Larry Rosen)
16. 11:21 AM - Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports (Rob Hunter)
17. 11:36 AM - Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports (Jesse Saint)
18. 11:57 AM - Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
19. 12:03 PM - Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports (Stein Bruch)
20. 12:37 PM - Van's stall warning switch (John Hasbrouck)
21. 02:33 PM - Re: Van's stall warning switch (Jim Combs)
22. 02:37 PM - Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports (Warren Gretz)
23. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines Copperstate visit (Deems Davis)
24. 04:42 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines Copperstate visit (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
25. 06:29 PM - Re: Alternative Engine (Jim Combs)
26. 06:38 PM - Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber (Jeff)
27. 07:19 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
28. 07:36 PM - Engine Talk... (Chris)
29. 08:28 PM - Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber (Rick)
30. 08:30 PM - Re: Engine Talk... (Richard Sipp)
31. 08:59 PM - Re: Quick build -> Akzo (Tim Olson)
32. 09:04 PM - Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber (Tim Olson)
33. 09:09 PM - Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports (Tim Olson)
34. 09:18 PM - Re: Re: Lycoming Engines Copperstate visit (Tim Olson)
35. 09:59 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Gretz mount (Larry Rosen)
Message 1
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While on the engine subject,
does the 540 come in any variant that does not require that ugly snorkel under
front of engine cowl.
I think the 200 hp version of the 360 for RV 7 & 8 does away with snorkel so thought
it may be possible.
Paul
Message 2
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| Subject: | Wing order + components |
Hmm, the aileron trim is set to go in the left wingtip but, looking at the plans,
I don't see any reason why you couldn't put it in either. It sit's on top of
the first inboard access plate and is connected to the push/pull tube via springs.
I don't have a 11x17 scanner but I scanned the main part of the overview
page and attached for your review.
I think you are good to go in either wing.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing order + components
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Michael,
You mentioned getting the opposite wing AP servo if you're using Van's aileron
trim. What are you saying, the aileron trim can't mount in the Left wing? My
wings are closed, but I figured I'd mount that later.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I did the duckworks HID while I was working on that part of the wing.
> It will be easier to get the nutplates and mounting bracket in place
> before you rivet on the leading edge. I even put nutplates in place
> in the opposite wing in case I decide to add a second kit down the road.
>
> Don't forget position lights also. If you go with the AoA from Rob,
> you can also get the wing kit and put that in at the same time as the
> duckworks HID. It sits just aft of the HID. Others have already
> mentioned the Pitot and AP. Just don't forget to order the AP servo
> for the opposite wing if you get Van's Aileron trim.
>
> For fuel tanks you could do a couple things. First, JetA or any
> other heavy fuel needs positive ventilation so you will need to work
> that out. I would talk to the guys at Deltahawk for specifics.
> Second, if you go with an engine conversion like Eggs Subaru you will
> need a return line for the fuel as they are constant supply. There is
> info on Egg's website but basically it's just an additional bulkhead
> in the -5 size in the vicinity of the vent connected to a tube that
> dumps into the second bay from the supply line so you don't get
> bubbles. If you are considering it you can put in the bulkhead and
> just cap it if you don't use it.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Flaps
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 12:16 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Wing order + components
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
>
> Ok, I'm getting ready to order the wings. I'd like to get whatever I
> might need to put in the wing while I'm at it so I don't forget
> something or have to wait to continue building because I'm waiting for
> a part.
>
> So, I guess this is where a lot of the decisions come ;)
>
> The question is, did I miss anything that will be difficult or
> impossible after the wing is closed:
>
> Conduit / bushings for the wiring
> AOA / pitot tubing
> coax cable for the wingtip nav / comm antennas aileron trim kit
>
> A couple of other questions... having not made an engine decision yet,
> and suspecting there will be some interesting things happening in the
> next 2 - 3 years before I'm ready for an engine installation, what
> would I need to do differently to the fuel plumbing / tanks if I were
> to use something that required JET-A as opposed to 100LL or mogas? Is
> there a way to build the tanks / plumbing so that you could use any of
> the above? Or does it not matter, and the real question is quantity?
> (I'll leave the traditional vs. non-traditional engine choice
> discussion for much later when I have acquired a nice nomex suit;)
>
> If I have two systems that have AOA (like a dynon or a chelton and the
> AOA indicator that AFS sells) do I need separate plumbing for both of
> them or can they share the same ports in the wings the way a
> pitot-static system can? I like the display of the AOA pro but a lot
> of the glass units have that feature built in so it would be nice to
> have them both working.
>
> Where are people putting their OAT sensor(s)? What kind of wiring
> does it require?
>
> I'm planning on going with the duckworks light kit, is it easier to
> install before or after the wing is closed?
>
> Thanks
> James
> #40400
> elevators
>
>
>
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> more:
> bsp;
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Lycoming Engines |
This brings up another thought that's been in the back of my mind. How $difficult$
would it be to turbo normalize one of our beasts with the 540. Allen?
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Lycoming Engines
Visit the GAMI site and their work with BPE on the Continental IO-520 and IO-550
to learn more on the difficulty of using MOGAS at altitude. Their solution
is/was Turbo Normalized. You won't find them buying off on the mogas idea.
John - KUAO
Do Not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Lycoming Engines
Good info indeed. I am planning high altitude cruise with the MH Oxy system myself
and glad to see the fuel burn down there. Balanced injectors is the same
as flow matched which, I believe, BPA has. I think you run into problems with
Mogas at those altitudes because of the vapor pressure? (can't think of the
word I want here). Anyway, same problem that causes vapor lock . I'm sure Allen
can enlighten us a little better.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
Message 4
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
It is the same with the quick build for the 10. The quality of the
fabrication is top rate. But, the priming leaves much to be desired.
It seem that most structure was put together and then it was primed. I
am going to re-prime with AKZO the areas that get sealed up. This will
leave the areas where you want the protection the most, where the ribs
meet the skin un-primed.
This is the trade off that in my opinion is well worth if for the amount
of time the quick build will save.
Larry Rosen
40356
Paul Walter wrote:
> Just wondering,
> when assembling my 7A empennage I polished, anodised and primed every
> component before assembly.
> upon receiving my quick build kit and with regard to corrosion
> protection, I thought that the quality of the priming job of the kit
> left a little to be desired, granted the quality of riveting was A1.
>
> Do any of the other members of the group have any reservations at all
> about going the Quick Build route ?. I would like to hear your thoughts.
> If it were not for this minor gripe I would go the A/B on my 10 or
> any other RV in a heart beat - the saving in time alone makes the Q/K
> unbeatable value.
>
> Paul Walter
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Quick build -> Akzo |
I'm guessing Paul meant alodined below. But I digress. My question is this,
with Azko is it truly a primer/sealer? I haven't done a whole lot of digging
but the only references I have ever seen are to it being a primer. The PPG DP40
I use is also a epoxy primer and only becomes a sealer when its mixed with
a reducer. Presumably to make it flow out better. Not trying to start a controversy
or anything, just trying to raise the observation. Either way I'm sure
it's more than adequate for our use.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick build
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
It is the same with the quick build for the 10. The quality of the fabrication
is top rate. But, the priming leaves much to be desired.
It seem that most structure was put together and then it was primed. I am going
to re-prime with AKZO the areas that get sealed up. This will leave the areas
where you want the protection the most, where the ribs meet the skin un-primed.
This is the trade off that in my opinion is well worth if for the amount of time
the quick build will save.
Larry Rosen
40356
Paul Walter wrote:
> Just wondering,
> when assembling my 7A empennage I polished, anodised and primed every
> component before assembly.
> upon receiving my quick build kit and with regard to corrosion
> protection, I thought that the quality of the priming job of the kit
> left a little to be desired, granted the quality of riveting was A1.
>
> Do any of the other members of the group have any reservations at all
> about going the Quick Build route ?. I would like to hear your thoughts.
> If it were not for this minor gripe I would go the A/B on my 10 or
> any other RV in a heart beat - the saving in time alone makes the Q/K
> unbeatable value.
>
> Paul Walter
>
>
Message 6
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Paul,
By "ugly snorkel" do you mean that sweet-looking air intake underneath the
spinner? I think part of the purpose of that is to get quasi ram-air (even
though it is going through the filter) and to get cooler air into the engine
that isn't being preheated by cooling the cylinders. I could be way off,
but I wouldn't trade that look for a smooth bottom cowl unless performance
would noticeable increase.
$.02
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org/>
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Walter
Subject: RV10-List: Engine
While on the engine subject,
does the 540 come in any variant that does not require that ugly snorkel
under front of engine cowl.
I think the 200 hp version of the 360 for RV 7 & 8 does away with snorkel
so thought it may be possible.
Paul
Message 7
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| Subject: | Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Randy forgot one last thing,
Get a good divorce lawyer unless you are single or have a great spouse that will
totally understand and support you in the process. I highly suggest reading
Dan Checkoway's "The married dudes guide to aircraft building". Link is pasted
below. I thank my better half on a daily basis for understanding this obsession,
which it will become, trust me.
http://www.rvproject.com/wife.html
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing order + components |
The Grezt mount is a great product, mine came out perfectly and you get an appreciation
for what it is like to have to lay out a few rivet holes with a ruler.
Heres a shot of mine with Jon Johanson heated pitot.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 9
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Take a good look at the front of a HRII Rocket (RV-4 on steroids). IO-540 with
the P-51 Mustang style intake. Would take a little glass work but worth (IMNSHO)
it. John Harmon makes two separate adaptors to fit the cowl to the intake.
You would need the 90 degree "elbow" for the engine and the fiberglass "smiley"
for the cowl. N561FS with the MT 4 blade too really looks "goood". KABONG Do
Not Archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Walter
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 2:20 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine
While on the engine subject,
does the 540 come in any variant that does not require that ugly snorkel under
front of engine cowl.
I think the 200 hp version of the 360 for RV 7 & 8 does away with snorkel so
thought it may be possible.
Paul
Message 10
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| Subject: | Lycoming Engines |
Expensive yes, difficult no (the work has been done by GAMI). Why would
you want the 260 horse Gestapo coming after you? The reason it is a
plausible idea is for builders in the Pacific NW who might just be
bolting from 5-8,000 foot mountainous runways. The flatlanders in the
plains and swamplands of the SW have no interest in such things. Now
let's all wait for Randy to get his bird into and out of the backcountry
strips of Idaho or Alaska and give us a fair flight report. At its
current rated output, you may not need to expend much grey matter on the
pursuit.
Now here is a different request... How many builders would be interested
in an alternate cowling to allow for Turbos, Wide Angle Heads or other
alternatives to the proven 540D4A5? Send responses offline to
johnwcox@pacificnw.com.
John - $00.02
Absolutely DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Lycoming Engines
This brings up another thought that's been in the back of my mind. How
$difficult$ would it be to turbo normalize one of our beasts with the
540. Allen?
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
________________________________
Message 11
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| Subject: | Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Wait a second! That's a pretty sick to suggest choosing an airplane over a
wife. If you do start getting AIDS, then get rid of the source of the
problem (the airplane) not the victim of the problem (the wife).
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Randy forgot one last thing,
Get a good divorce lawyer unless you are single or have a great spouse that
will totally understand and support you in the process. I highly suggest
reading Dan Checkoway's "The married dudes guide to aircraft building". Link
is pasted below. I thank my better half on a daily basis for understanding
this obsession, which it will become, trust me.
http://www.rvproject.com/wife.html
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 12
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| Subject: | Wing order + components |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Nice work. We added the Gretz mount after the wing was finished which was a
fair bit more work. We also just added a heated pitot to replace the Dynon
AOA pitot. Fortunately we were able to fish the heated pitot power wire
through the AOA pitot tube which was not needed anymore. Wiring that thing
up and hooking up the pitot line was a lot of work with the wing closed up
and on the plane.
All this to say, everybody should decide what pitot they are going with
before they finish their wings so they can do something like you did and
make it fairly easy to remove and replace if there is a problem. I really
like Tim's idea of putting it further out the wing where it can be accessed
from the open wingtip. It is a pain working around the aileron controls to
get a the pitot to replace it.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing order + components
The Grezt mount is a great product, mine came out perfectly and you get an
appreciation for what it is like to have to lay out a few rivet holes with a
ruler. Heres a shot of mine with Jon Johanson heated pitot.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 13
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| Subject: | Thanks for the info everyone! |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
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The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Heated Pitot, AoA ports |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Anyone know the price of the Gretz heated Pitot? Their website doesn't
even list it!
Also, when should you buy/install the Angle of Attack ports? Any info on
this would be helpful, since I've never dealt with AoA instruments before.
-Jim 40384
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
You can get it from SteinAir here
<http://www.steinair.com/accessories.htm>. Cost is $425. Do not know
what the cost is if you get it directly from Gretz. I believe you need
to call or email Gretz. If you get a price from Gretz email back to the
list an let us know.
Stein also has the mount. $118 for chrome, $95 unpainted.
Larry Rosen
40256
N205EN (reserved)
Working on the bagage door today
James Hein wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>
> Anyone know the price of the Gretz heated Pitot? Their website doesn't
> even list it!
>
> Also, when should you buy/install the Angle of Attack ports? Any info
> on this would be helpful, since I've never dealt with AoA instruments
> before.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Heated Pitot, AoA ports |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Hunter" <rwhunter@integraonline.com>
Jim,
Try Stein. http://www.steinair.com/accessories.htm
Rob Hunter
40432 H/S
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: RV10-List: Heated Pitot, AoA ports
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Anyone know the price of the Gretz heated Pitot? Their website doesn't
even list it!
Also, when should you buy/install the Angle of Attack ports? Any info on
this would be helpful, since I've never dealt with AoA instruments before.
-Jim 40384
Message 17
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| Subject: | Heated Pitot, AoA ports |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
I just talked to him the other day and I think he said it was $425.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: RV10-List: Heated Pitot, AoA ports
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Anyone know the price of the Gretz heated Pitot? Their website doesn't
even list it!
Also, when should you buy/install the Angle of Attack ports? Any info on
this would be helpful, since I've never dealt with AoA instruments before.
-Jim 40384
Message 18
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| Subject: | Heated Pitot, AoA ports |
Same price directly from him. Go with who ever has them in stock. Warren just
got more in about 2 weeks ago after a couple month wait on his molder so make
sure you order it well before you need it. Mounts shouldn't be a problem and
I would just go with the paintable one if you get his pitot as it's a type of
plastic so you can't chrome it.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Flaps
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot, AoA ports
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
You can get it from SteinAir here
<http://www.steinair.com/accessories.htm>. Cost is $425. Do not know what the cost is if you get it directly from Gretz. I believe you need to call or email Gretz. If you get a price from Gretz email back to the list an let us know.
Stein also has the mount. $118 for chrome, $95 unpainted.
Larry Rosen
40256
N205EN (reserved)
Working on the bagage door today
James Hein wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>
> Anyone know the price of the Gretz heated Pitot? Their website doesn't
> even list it!
>
> Also, when should you buy/install the Angle of Attack ports? Any info
> on this would be helpful, since I've never dealt with AoA instruments
> before.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Heated Pitot, AoA ports |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
$425.00, and the mount is sold separately (some want a chrome mount and some
want un-painted mounts) Same price whether you buy them from me or Gretz or
his other dealers. The AOA ports are most easily installed during wing
construction, but can be retro-fitted later if need be.
It's just easier to do both when working on the wings.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: RV10-List: Heated Pitot, AoA ports
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Anyone know the price of the Gretz heated Pitot? Their website doesn't
even list it!
Also, when should you buy/install the Angle of Attack ports? Any info on
this would be helpful, since I've never dealt with AoA instruments before.
-Jim 40384
Message 20
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| Subject: | Van's stall warning switch |
To anyone who has installed Vans's stall warning switch: Instructions call for
adjusting the switch for minimal travel for activation/deactivation. I have
adjusted for 1/8 inch travel for activation, is that about right? Still plenty
of room for the vane to travel in the slot I'm not sure what dimension "minimal"
is.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Van's stall warning switch |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
John,
I adjusted mine so the switch closure occurs (when the switch is mounted in the
wing) at mid travel in the opening. There are instructions indicating a preferred
angle as the tab comes from the leading edge.
You just need to make sure the switch is going to activate, de-activate for the
given mounting position and skin opening.
However, I am not flying yet, so there may be some adjusting required. Also, I
am planning on using an Angle Of Attack sensor as well.
I still question why put in the stall warning switch if AOA is installed too.
I just didn't have a good reason not to go ahead in put it in.
Jim Combs
#40192 - N312F - Fuselage
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
To anyone who has installed Vans's stall warning switch: Instructions call for
adjusting the switch for minimal travel for activation/deactivation. I have
adjusted for 1/8 inch travel for activation, is that about right? Still plenty
of room for the vane to travel in the slot I'm not sure what dimension "minimal"
is.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Warren Gretz <warrengretz@gretzaero.com>
Hello Listers,
The GA-1000 is $425 if you purchase it directly from me or Stein Air. I do have
them in stock currently, but they have been going fast. It is a good idea to
order the GA-1000 before you really need it to make sure it is available. I am
working on getting the manufacturing process done faster, but it is taking time
to gear up to the demand. The mounting bracket kits are nearly always in stock.
I have been soooo busy in getting the GA-1000 made and out the door I have not
had time to complete the new website. It should be done shortly however. Meanwhile,
you can call me or e-mail me to order or to ask questions. The best number
to call me is 208-834-2312 which is the Gretz Aero office phone. I will be
traveling Sunday 10-9-05 to Thursday 10-13-05. You can call my cell phone while
I am traveling. The cell phone is 720-308-0010. When I am at my home or office
the cell phone does not work (no cell site here). I will be checking the 208
number while traveling and will return calls once I pick them up. I will accept
VISA or MASTERCARD for payment.
I hope this helps.
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
---- <rv10-list@matronics.com> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>
> Anyone know the price of the Gretz heated Pitot? Their website doesn't
> even list it!
>
> Also, when should you buy/install the Angle of Attack ports? Any info on
> this would be helpful, since I've never dealt with AoA instruments before.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Lycoming Engines Copperstate visit |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Well: good news,bad news,
1st the bad news, Jan wasn't @ Copperstate, They had a booth but the
girl in the booth said he was out of the country. The only person
available to ask questions to was an RV 7A Builder with an H6
installation who had his plane there (nice!) and has been working w/ Jan
doing some recent testing (There's a recent blurb on the Egg website).
He really wasn't knowledgeable regarding any plans for a-10
installation. And neither was anybody else in the booth. It seems their
sweet spot is the 4cly Lyc 360 market and for that application I think
it's a good fit, it would also be a good fit for anybody that had been
thinking about the Continental for the RV-10. After thinking on this
some more, not withstanding the benefits of lower cost,
reliability(implied), smoothness, newer technology,Mogas etc. I'm
uncomfortable with a), a lesser rated HP (240-??). and b). in order to
get even that HP they have to spin the engine a lot faster than they do
for the 200 hp versions. Close to or @ redline. And then they have to
supercharge it. Seems that's pushing the envelope towards an edge that
hasn't been proved (in aircraft) yet. It may be that this all proves to
be non issues in the future, but I'm looking to get as close to 200mph
out of my 10 as I can (just ego). And going to a less powerful platform,
that's already pushed towards the upperend of it's performance envelope,
isn't where I think I want to be. I'll continue to watch and listen to
any developments, but won't be putting the Subie in any critical path on
my project plan. If theres an RV-10 program in the future @ Egg, then
Jan is probably the only person who knows about it. (And the looks of
those tow mufflers hanging below the cowl also turns me off)
Talked with a couple of other engine builders who were all quoting
prices and functions similar to what has been reported on this list.
They, are sending quotes and options via snail mail.
The good news, (depending on when you need your engine), I spoke with
the ECI/Titan folks and they are well into their 540 program and if you
can wait til next Sept for your engine, they will be ready with all of
the parts, They were partnered with an engine rebuilder from SanAntinio
Tx. who was in the booth next to them, and he indicated that he expected
the price to be just under 30k. His costs estimates were derived from a
combination of 1. what his cost are to build an Titan 360 currently
using ECI parts, and 2. What his cost are to rebuild a 540 using the ECI
cyl assemblies. That's all new everything. with a stronger case, some
improvements where the case and crank mate. That will not include the
roller tappet technology that Lyc is now pushing. (heard a RUMOR that
its not as rosy as hoped for and the added complexity is taking a toll)
I've got some information and a CD that I will need to wade through over
the next few days in order to better compare apples to apples, but it
certainly sounds interesting, and while the timeline is a bit longer
than I'd like, As most projects seem to go that'll probably still end up
within my window.
I looked for an insurance underwriter or agent to ask Michaels question
to, but none were there.
Deems Davis # 406
Wing Ribs
http://deemsrv10.com/
Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william@gbta.net>
>
>Deems, get all the info you can get out of Jan at Copperstate and please
>report back. I've been interested in his engines since I first found out
>about them a couple years back. I was ready to buy one of his 2.5's when I
>was planning on a RV-7, but now that I'm building a -10 I really hope he can
>make the H-6 work. The only thing that still bugs me a little is the high
>RPM's on take off. I know the engines do that all the time in the cars, but
>it just sounds too high. Probably won't be a problem.
>
>Anyway, please report back if you have time.
>
>Bill Britton
>RV-10 #40137
>Elevators in progress
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:35 PM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Lycoming Engines
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>>This is making the Egg/Subie look more and more interesting to me. He'
>>going to be @ Copperstate this weekend, and I look forward to hearing
>>1st hand about his plans for the RV-10 installation.
>>(I just saw on ANN an AD for Lyc 360 & 540 cranks, maybe this is how Lyc
>>expects to pay for it)
>>
>>Deems Davis # 406
>>Wing Main Spar
>>http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>>William Curtis wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to
>>>$42,650, an over $3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of
>>>the 250HP O-540 for $37,500. Other than fuel injection, anyone know
>>>what else is different between these engines? It would seem you could
>>>get the O and add fuel injection for a lot less than $5,150 or FADEC
>>>for a little more. I think Ill be looking at the IO-540 clone from
>>>Aerosport. Maybe in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider the
>>>210HP Continental IO-360.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>>that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know
>>>>
>>>>
>if
>
>
>>>>this has the new tapped technology?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>William Curtis
>>>40237 - wings
>>>http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE: Lycoming Engines Copperstate visit |
Excellent job Deems!
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Lycoming Engines Copperstate visit
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Well: good news,bad news,
1st the bad news, Jan wasn't @ Copperstate, They had a booth but the girl in the
booth said he was out of the country. The only person available to ask questions
to was an RV 7A Builder with an H6 installation who had his plane there
(nice!) and has been working w/ Jan doing some recent testing (There's a recent
blurb on the Egg website).
He really wasn't knowledgeable regarding any plans for a-10 installation. And neither
was anybody else in the booth. It seems their sweet spot is the 4cly Lyc
360 market and for that application I think it's a good fit, it would also be
a good fit for anybody that had been thinking about the Continental for the
RV-10. After thinking on this some more, not withstanding the benefits of lower
cost, reliability(implied), smoothness, newer technology,Mogas etc. I'm uncomfortable
with a), a lesser rated HP (240-??). and b). in order to get even that
HP they have to spin the engine a lot faster than they do for the 200 hp versions.
Close to or @ redline. And then they have to supercharge it. Seems that's
pushing the envelope towards an edge that hasn't been proved (in aircraft)
yet. It may be that this all proves to be non issues in the future, but I'm
looking to get as close to 200mph out of my 10 as I can (just ego). And going
to a less powerful platform, that's already pushed towards the upperend of it's
performance envelope, isn't where I think I want to be. I'll continue to watch
and listen to any developments, but won't be putting the Subie in any critical
path on my project plan. If theres an RV-10 program in the future @ Egg, then
Jan is probably the only person who knows about it. (And the looks of those
tow mufflers hanging below the cowl also turns me off) Talked with a couple
of other engine builders who were all quoting prices and functions similar to
what has been reported on this list.
They, are sending quotes and options via snail mail.
The good news, (depending on when you need your engine), I spoke with the ECI/Titan
folks and they are well into their 540 program and if you can wait til next
Sept for your engine, they will be ready with all of the parts, They were
partnered with an engine rebuilder from SanAntinio Tx. who was in the booth next
to them, and he indicated that he expected the price to be just under 30k.
His costs estimates were derived from a combination of 1. what his cost are to
build an Titan 360 currently using ECI parts, and 2. What his cost are to rebuild
a 540 using the ECI cyl assemblies. That's all new everything. with a stronger
case, some improvements where the case and crank mate. That will not include
the roller tappet technology that Lyc is now pushing. (heard a RUMOR that
its not as rosy as hoped for and the added complexity is taking a toll) I've
got some information and a CD that I will need to wade through over the next few
days in order to better compare apples to apples, but it certainly sounds interesting,
and while the timeline is a bit longer than I'd like, As most projects
seem to go that'll probably still end up within my window.
I looked for an insurance underwriter or agent to ask Michaels question to, but
none were there.
Deems Davis # 406
Wing Ribs
http://deemsrv10.com/
Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton"
>--> <william@gbta.net>
>
>Deems, get all the info you can get out of Jan at Copperstate and
>please report back. I've been interested in his engines since I first
>found out about them a couple years back. I was ready to buy one of
>his 2.5's when I was planning on a RV-7, but now that I'm building a
>-10 I really hope he can make the H-6 work. The only thing that still
>bugs me a little is the high RPM's on take off. I know the engines do
>that all the time in the cars, but it just sounds too high. Probably won't be
a problem.
>
>Anyway, please report back if you have time.
>
>Bill Britton
>RV-10 #40137
>Elevators in progress
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:35 PM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Lycoming Engines
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>>This is making the Egg/Subie look more and more interesting to me. He'
>>going to be @ Copperstate this weekend, and I look forward to hearing
>>1st hand about his plans for the RV-10 installation.
>>(I just saw on ANN an AD for Lyc 360 & 540 cranks, maybe this is how
>>Lyc expects to pay for it)
>>
>>Deems Davis # 406
>>Wing Main Spar
>>http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>>William Curtis wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to
>>>$42,650, an over $3,600 increase. However they now have an offering
>>>of the 250HP O-540 for $37,500. Other than fuel injection, anyone
>>>know what else is different between these engines? It would seem you
>>>could get the O and add fuel injection for a lot less than $5,150 or
>>>FADEC for a little more. I think I'll be looking at the IO-540 clone
>>>from Aerosport. Maybe in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider
>>>the 210HP Continental IO-360.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>noticed
>>>
>>>
>>>>that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone
>>>>know
>>>>
>>>>
>if
>
>
>>>>this has the new tapped technology?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>William Curtis
>>>40237 - wings
>>>http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Alternative Engine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
Deems,
There may be several -10 people putting three rotor Wankels in as well. Those
will go over 200 HP and are quite small and lightweight for the HP. But I know
of no FWF kits like the E-Engine.
You would still get the water cooling, EFI, low rebuild cost like the Subaru.
But they don't have the long TBO either. Cowling changes would be required as
well.
Still leaves the insurance and resale question though.
Jim C
#40192 - N312F - Fuselage
Do Not Archive
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jeff" <jdalton77@comcast.net>
I took the SportAir course on sheet metal building last week. The question
of QB vs SB came up.
The EAA guy said "why should I spend twice as much for half the fun?"
While some people are indeed in a hurry to fly - and there certainly is
nothing wrong with that - some seem to like the process of building as much
as flying.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy DeBauw" <Randy@abros.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber
You have great goals. Here is my recommendations to anyone building a RV10.
1 Go quick build unless you have a plane that you fly now or you are
retired and love to build. It will take months off of most peoples build
times.
2 Plan on 150,000.00 for a good IFR platform. If you save a buck here and
there, great. you won't be upset when it comes in a little more.
3 Have the panel built by someone, anyone. It will cut 2 monthes off of the
project. I would also recommend that the person wiring the panel is also
someone who wires entire planes as well. If you do the airframe wiring
yourself and they are doing the panel, the wire gauges can all be worked out
very easily. Don't know what wire gets run for the pitot heat? Just ask
them, they do it all day long.
4 Get help. Deburing isn't hard and a local kid that want's to get
involved in the project, or as I lucked into a great retired guy that also
want to build a plane. The plane isn't hard to build but it does require the
hours to be spent.
5 You must build at home or live in the hanger. Do not take the kids to
socker practice, do not go out to dinner more the 1 night a week. Do not cut
the grass until you absolutly have to. It is a major waste of time that
could be better spent working on the plane. Do not fix up the house, that
can come after the plane is built.
6 Oh one more thing. Leave the Web sites to someone else. There as some
great ones out there you can't compete with them, and it is time that would
be better spent reading the plans for tomorrows tasks.
7 If you want to build fast - don't prime. I primed and I would do it again
but I am not convinced it the best thing since sliced bread.
2200 hours slow build.
1800 hours QB.
I think one year is doable but you better stay away from that lawn or it
will be 1 1/2 years. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Mike,
Good questions. A trip through the land of RV web sites will help you,
greatly. Also, search the archives. There are many references there as to
the time to build and costs.
I cannot do anything but give you a projected cost range that I came up with
for my purposes (IFR panel, new engine, etc), and that was between $120,000
to $140,000. I hope the estimated range is high; I doubt it.
But to me, the one thing that disturbed me about your post was the "need" to
get this done within a year or less. Randy, the first totally completed
RV-10 to fly, was finished in 20 months, with help, both in terms of
physical labor, but also in terms of subsections being farmed out, such as
the panel. (Randy can fill you in on exactly what were his shortcuts.)
Twenty months is fast, my friend. I expect to take between 24 and 48
months, depending if I, too, go QB, which is still being debated. For a
plane of this complexity, anything south of 24 months would be proud to crow
about, but less than 12? Please don't set that as your goal. This stuff is
doable, but it is not strictly a Lego or erector set.
By the way, I work on it each evening for 2 hours (when I'm not traveling on
business) and each and every weekend for at least 6 hours (when I'm not
being pulled away by others who don't understand the passion and addiction,
but whose needs must be recognized - none of us are total recluses, yet),
and there's no way that I could get it done in less time than Randy's 20
months. I have all the tools, and the requisite knowledge and skills, and
there's no way. In short, enjoy the process, build well and have some
fun...or, buy one already built. I'm sure there will be a few up for sale
soon.
My best,
John Jessen
40328 HS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Lee
Subject: RV10-List: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Lee" <miklleen@hotmail.com>
OK I am sure this has been asked before, but maybe someoneone could send me
copies of any list digests with information on this, or just reply directly.
I am ver seriously considering an RV-10 project. What I would like is
information from real builders on the following:
Assuming the following:
1) RV-10 Quick build kit
2) Builder has good mechanical aptitude and electonics experience.
3) Never built an airplane before, or any project of this size.
4) Planning to keep customizations to a minimum.
5) Need to keep costs down, planning on finding a used mid time engine, CS
prop, analog engine gauges, basic JPI engine monitor, will shell out $ for a
Garmin 530 / 430 combo and indicators.
6) Want an IFR platform (hence the 530 / 430 combo)
7) GPS / Nav coupled auto pilot with altitude hold.
8) Will paint myself, will have uphoulstry done.
9) Basic sound proofing.
10) Wingtip stobes, plus stobe beacon, otherwise standard lighting with taxi
/ landing light.
Can I get an estimate of build time and costs? What types of unexpected
costs that are not in the above are there?
Anyone else out there with similar goals / expectaions?
What are other builders doing to keep costs down?
I know I can save some $$ by buying a standard kit instead of a quick build,
but I have a need to have the aircraft done in less than a year, working
evenings and weekends.
THANKS!!!!! for any and all help!
Mike
====================================
====================================
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Lycoming Engines |
For me, it was their performance work plus the 3 year parts and warranty....
grumpy #40404
In a message dated 10/7/2005 3:44:06 PM Central Standard Time,
wcurtis@core.com writes:
>Is there a reason that people are talking about the Aerosport
>engine at $37,500 over the Teledyne engine at $34,150?
William Curtis
40237 - wings
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 28
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|
All this engine talk makes me wonder... is there any data out there which compares
the average time on wing or time to major maintenance (top overhaul, new cylinder
required, something flat out fails) for all of the more popular engine
builders or the factory. Granted there are a lot of variables on the engine once
it leaves the builder but it would be interesting to see who has the least
failures overall regardless of who is maintaining the engine or what aircraft
it is flying in etc.
Chris Lucas
#40072
Message 29
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| Subject: | Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Lol...
Exactly, I guess my point was missed, in order to meet the goals in the original
post you better plan on spending lots-o-time pounding rivets. I think everyone
building understands the give and takes associated with this extensive type
of project. I imagine even some careers could suffer too. So many good articles
have been pened in Sport Aviation, kitplanes etc about the role of the spouse.
I'm just glad I have that support. I have seen kits up for sale with the
words "divorce forces sale" in the post....you gotta wonder where it when wrong...before
or after the wing kit arrived ;)
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Talk... |
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 10:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Engine Talk...
All this engine talk makes me wonder... is there any data out there which compares
the average time on wing or time to major maintenance (top overhaul, new
cylinder required, something flat out fails) for all of the more popular engine
builders or the factory.............
Great question Chris, I can't think of any source that might have reliable data.
Aviation Consumer and similar pubs do a good bit of surveying but they are
still taking a small sample. Reputations, good and bad, are quickly magnified
by lists like ours.
To add another data point; G&N Aircraft in Griffith, IN www.gnaircraft.com/ is another of the authorized Lycoming clone builders. (Ask for Dennis Wyman) A friend of mine and I had very similar 0-320 run-outs overhauled there. Both engines are still running strong at 700 hours (80/80 compression) for me and my friend who must be around 1000 hours now.
I think any of the major reputable re-builders would be a safe choice. I am
sure also that there are many small local shops that do quality rebuilds as well.
Even the best will probably suffer a rare engine that does not do well early
in its service cycle. This is one reason why for me at least, I want an
engine that has been through a test cell run prior to delivery.
As you mentioned , I think the biggest factor is the operator. A great engine
rebuild can be destroyed in the first few hours if it is abused.
Dick Sipp
RV4 N250DS
RV10 40065
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Quick build -> Akzo |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Yes, Akzo is definitely truly a primer/sealer. That's why
I chose it instead of variprime. What it isn't, is an etcher.
But, I'm finding that it holds VERY good to just schtchbrited
panels. And, at just over $100 for a 2 gallon mix, it's
a great buy, and very easy to mix and measure. 1:1
I just got done painting the fuse and wings today, so I've got some
good stuff coming to post.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> I'm guessing Paul meant alodined below. But I digress. My question is
> this, with Azko is it truly a primer/sealer? I haven't done a whole lot
> of digging but the only references I have ever seen are to it being a
> primer. The PPG DP40 I use is also a epoxy primer and only becomes a
> sealer when its mixed with a reducer. Presumably to make it flow out
> better. Not trying to start a controversy or anything, just trying to
> raise the observation. Either way I'm sure it's more than adequate for
> our use.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Flaps
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 7:10 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick build
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>
> It is the same with the quick build for the 10. The quality of the
> fabrication is top rate. But, the priming leaves much to be desired.
> It seem that most structure was put together and then it was primed. I
> am going to re-prime with AKZO the areas that get sealed up. This will
> leave the areas where you want the protection the most, where the ribs
> meet the skin un-primed.
>
> This is the trade off that in my opinion is well worth if for the amount
> of time the quick build will save.
>
> Larry Rosen
> 40356
>
> Paul Walter wrote:
>
> > Just wondering,
> > when assembling my 7A empennage I polished, anodised and primed every
> > component before assembly.
> > upon receiving my quick build kit and with regard to corrosion
> > protection, I thought that the quality of the priming job of the kit
> > left a little to be desired, granted the quality of riveting was A1.
> >
> > Do any of the other members of the group have any reservations at all
> > about going the Quick Build route ?. I would like to hear your thoughts.
> > If it were not for this minor gripe I would go the A/B on my 10 or
> > any other RV in a heart beat - the saving in time alone makes the Q/K
> > unbeatable value.
> >
> > Paul Walter
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> more:
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Pre-marriage screening for pilots.
"Hey, do you like airplanes?....How'd you like to go for
a flight in a small plane?"
Result:
"Yes, I love airplanes, cool, when can we go....I think we
should go see the mountains" = Marry the chick
"No, them things scare the crap out of me. Can't
we try shuffleboard instead?" = Ditch the witch
;)
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> Wait a second! That's a pretty sick to suggest choosing an airplane over a
> wife. If you do start getting AIDS, then get rid of the source of the
> problem (the airplane) not the victim of the problem (the wife).
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 12:27 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Real time and cost to build? From a new subscriber
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
> Randy forgot one last thing,
>
> Get a good divorce lawyer unless you are single or have a great spouse that
> will totally understand and support you in the process. I highly suggest
> reading Dan Checkoway's "The married dudes guide to aircraft building". Link
> is pasted below. I thank my better half on a daily basis for understanding
> this obsession, which it will become, trust me.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/wife.html
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot, AoA ports |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I think it's $425, but others already posted that part.
A couple of other tips:
1. You can just install the pitot mount, but you really
wouldn't need the pitot itself until after the wing is
even closed up...as long as you mount it in an accessible place.
I like that 1st or 2nd bay from the tip.
2. If you get the Chelton, you can get a pseudo AOA from what
I just heard, built into the system. It doesn't truly read
the actual AOA, but it calculates it based on other various
input info, including G-forces and more, and is said to be
accurate to within 2 or 3 kts from what I understand.
If you buy the AOA with tubes, best to figure out your tube runs
before you close the bottoms of the wings.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
James Hein wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>
> Anyone know the price of the Gretz heated Pitot? Their website doesn't
> even list it!
>
> Also, when should you buy/install the Angle of Attack ports? Any info on
> this would be helpful, since I've never dealt with AoA instruments before.
>
> -Jim 40384
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Lycoming Engines Copperstate visit |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I'm wondering...
With the recent posts talking about the increased prices of Lycomings,
do you think the price of the ECI Titan Kit engine will actually
hold still if it's not going to be really delivered much until
a year from now? It seems to me that the last time I heard estimated
pricing was before OSH, and before all these others increased.
Anybody have any really recent estimates from them?
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Well: good news,bad news,
> 1st the bad news, Jan wasn't @ Copperstate, They had a booth but the
> girl in the booth said he was out of the country. The only person
> available to ask questions to was an RV 7A Builder with an H6
> installation who had his plane there (nice!) and has been working w/ Jan
> doing some recent testing (There's a recent blurb on the Egg website).
> He really wasn't knowledgeable regarding any plans for a-10
> installation. And neither was anybody else in the booth. It seems their
> sweet spot is the 4cly Lyc 360 market and for that application I think
> it's a good fit, it would also be a good fit for anybody that had been
> thinking about the Continental for the RV-10. After thinking on this
> some more, not withstanding the benefits of lower cost,
> reliability(implied), smoothness, newer technology,Mogas etc. I'm
> uncomfortable with a), a lesser rated HP (240-??). and b). in order to
> get even that HP they have to spin the engine a lot faster than they do
> for the 200 hp versions. Close to or @ redline. And then they have to
> supercharge it. Seems that's pushing the envelope towards an edge that
> hasn't been proved (in aircraft) yet. It may be that this all proves to
> be non issues in the future, but I'm looking to get as close to 200mph
> out of my 10 as I can (just ego). And going to a less powerful platform,
> that's already pushed towards the upperend of it's performance envelope,
> isn't where I think I want to be. I'll continue to watch and listen to
> any developments, but won't be putting the Subie in any critical path on
> my project plan. If theres an RV-10 program in the future @ Egg, then
> Jan is probably the only person who knows about it. (And the looks of
> those tow mufflers hanging below the cowl also turns me off)
> Talked with a couple of other engine builders who were all quoting
> prices and functions similar to what has been reported on this list.
> They, are sending quotes and options via snail mail.
> The good news, (depending on when you need your engine), I spoke with
> the ECI/Titan folks and they are well into their 540 program and if you
> can wait til next Sept for your engine, they will be ready with all of
> the parts, They were partnered with an engine rebuilder from SanAntinio
> Tx. who was in the booth next to them, and he indicated that he expected
> the price to be just under 30k. His costs estimates were derived from a
> combination of 1. what his cost are to build an Titan 360 currently
> using ECI parts, and 2. What his cost are to rebuild a 540 using the ECI
> cyl assemblies. That's all new everything. with a stronger case, some
> improvements where the case and crank mate. That will not include the
> roller tappet technology that Lyc is now pushing. (heard a RUMOR that
> its not as rosy as hoped for and the added complexity is taking a toll)
> I've got some information and a CD that I will need to wade through over
> the next few days in order to better compare apples to apples, but it
> certainly sounds interesting, and while the timeline is a bit longer
> than I'd like, As most projects seem to go that'll probably still end up
> within my window.
> I looked for an insurance underwriter or agent to ask Michaels question
> to, but none were there.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Wing Ribs
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
> Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill and Tami Britton"
>> <william@gbta.net>
>>
>> Deems, get all the info you can get out of Jan at Copperstate and please
>> report back. I've been interested in his engines since I first found out
>> about them a couple years back. I was ready to buy one of his 2.5's
>> when I
>> was planning on a RV-7, but now that I'm building a -10 I really hope
>> he can
>> make the H-6 work. The only thing that still bugs me a little is the
>> high
>> RPM's on take off. I know the engines do that all the time in the
>> cars, but
>> it just sounds too high. Probably won't be a problem.
>>
>> Anyway, please report back if you have time.
>>
>> Bill Britton
>> RV-10 #40137
>> Elevators in progress
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: Lycoming Engines
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>>
>>> This is making the Egg/Subie look more and more interesting to me. He'
>>> going to be @ Copperstate this weekend, and I look forward to hearing
>>> 1st hand about his plans for the RV-10 installation.
>>> (I just saw on ANN an AD for Lyc 360 & 540 cranks, maybe this is how Lyc
>>> expects to pay for it)
>>>
>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>> Wing Main Spar
>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>
>>> William Curtis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yup, they raised the price of the 260HP IO-540 from $38,990 to
>>>> $42,650, an over $3,600 increase. However they now have an offering of
>>>> the 250HP O-540 for $37,500. Other than fuel injection, anyone know
>>>> what else is different between these engines? It would seem you could
>>>> get the O and add fuel injection for a lot less than $5,150 or FADEC
>>>> for a little more. I think Ill be looking at the IO-540 clone from
>>>> Aerosport. Maybe in these days of $5 avgas, they will reconsider the
>>>> 210HP Continental IO-360.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Back to the engine question. I am getting close to ordering one and
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> noticed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> that Vans prices went up considerably for the IO540. Does anyone know
>>>>>
>>
>> if
>>
>>
>>>>> this has the new tapped technology?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> William Curtis
>>>> 40237 - wings
>>>> http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
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>
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Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Heated Pitot Gretz mount |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
What do you do, just center the aluminum tubing in the mount, cut it
long, and then trim to fit when you install the heated pitot tube?
Larry Rosen
N205EN (reserved)
Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> 1. You can just install the pitot mount, but you really
> wouldn't need the pitot itself until after the wing is
> even closed up...as long as you mount it in an accessible place.
> I like that 1st or 2nd bay from the tip.
>
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