Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:44 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
2. 04:56 AM - Re: Wing order + components (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
3. 05:33 AM - Re: Wing order + components (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto)
4. 06:01 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (ddddsp1@juno.com)
5. 06:08 AM - Re: Elevator horn (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
6. 06:27 AM - Re: Elevator horn (Robert G. Wright)
7. 06:28 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (RAS)
8. 08:02 AM - Re: Wing order + components (Tim Olson)
9. 08:06 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Tim Olson)
10. 08:34 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Jesse Saint)
11. 08:34 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Chuck Jensen)
12. 08:38 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Jesse Saint)
13. 08:42 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Jesse Saint)
14. 08:47 AM - AutoPilot Servos and Turbulent Flight (Jesse Saint)
15. 08:49 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Jesse Saint)
16. 09:20 AM - Re: Wing order + components (Rick)
17. 09:33 AM - Re: Wing order + components (Jim Combs)
18. 09:40 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (JOHN STARN)
19. 09:47 AM - snap bushings... (James Ochs)
20. 09:48 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
21. 09:50 AM - Re: Counter sinking - just how much really to get a good fit (John Jessen)
22. 10:09 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (James Ochs)
23. 10:18 AM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Chuck Jensen)
24. 11:56 AM - Re: snap bushings... (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
25. 12:28 PM - Re: snap bushings... (John Jessen)
26. 12:40 PM - Re: snap bushings... (JOHN STARN)
27. 01:11 PM - Re: snap bushings... (James Ochs)
28. 01:30 PM - Re: snap bushings... (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
29. 01:48 PM - Re: Wing Tips Don't Line Up (John Testement)
30. 02:13 PM - Re: Wing order + components (linn walters)
31. 02:53 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (RobHickman@aol.com)
32. 03:04 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (James Hein)
33. 03:19 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (RobHickman@aol.com)
34. 03:50 PM - Re: snap bushings... (McGANN, Ron)
35. 04:38 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (David McNeill)
36. 05:09 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
37. 05:30 PM - Re: Wing order + components (Jim Combs)
38. 07:43 PM - solder or crimp?? (eagerlee)
39. 08:05 PM - Re: solder or crimp?? (linn walters)
40. 08:10 PM - Re: solder or crimp?? (Sean Stephens)
41. 08:13 PM - Re: solder or crimp?? (Kelly McMullen)
42. 08:14 PM - Re: solder or crimp?? (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
43. 08:27 PM - Re: solder or crimp?? (David McNeill)
44. 09:05 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (Robert G. Wright)
45. 09:17 PM - Re: RV-10 Door Incident (bob.kaufmann)
46. 09:41 PM - Re: rv10 fuel senders (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
47. 10:14 PM - Re: solder or crimp?? (Werner Schneider)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
This is why I plan on using a secondary system (i.e.: a strap) to make sure any
in flight openings are a non event. Love gull wing doors but they aren't fun
in this instance and I think most of us have had a door pop open for one reason
or another.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing assembly
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
In a message dated 10/11/2005 10:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, rv10builder@bellsouth.net
writes:
=09
Anyone seen this?
Not the entire door coming off!!! I did see the factory demo at Sun n Fun
with the rear door pin on the outside a few times when potential customers
sat inside and tried to latch the door shut. The outside paint is damaged in this
area of that bird. The reps, kept telling people, Dont latch the door.
The design seemed very weak at best to me. there is NO mechanism to draw the
door in for latching, and it is a difficult pull from the front seat to get the
rear portion flush before flipping the latch. Any ideas or reworks of the
design?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Steve
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder (almost) / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wing order + components |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
A bit more clarification. Trutrak has a series of servos to accomodate different
aircraft. Additionally the servo for pitch is different than for roll. For
the RV-10 they use Type C servos. Purchasing these with the install kits will
allow you to defer the decision about which exact model of digital AP to go
with. The servos would be different if you were building a Lancair IV.
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing order + components
--> RV10-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Rick and James,
sorry to put things here in a bit a different light, the servos are all
the same from the dimension, however, they are different in torque they
do supply (and Amps they use), so best thing is just to call/email them
up and ask for the type you need for the aileron.
br Werner
Rick wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
>James,
>
>All the trutrak servos are the same, it goes easily in the right wing with the
supplied brackets. I picked mine up from Less Drag products but there are other
dealers, his service and the ability to buy just one servo at a time was cool.
Sit down before you read the price though. I need some more info on Vans roll
trim. My wings are done and wired so I'm in no hurry to add my roll trim just
yet but it looks easy to install on the inboard access panel.
>
>Email me off line for my phone number if you want to discuss and I can tell you
a lot more than typing it.
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Wing order + components |
Good point Bob, I had completely forgot they have different levels of torque depending
on aircraft type.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 wing assembly
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing order + components
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
--> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
A bit more clarification. Trutrak has a series of servos to accomodate different
aircraft. Additionally the servo for pitch is different than for roll. For
the RV-10 they use "Type C" servos. Purchasing these with the install kits
will allow you to defer the decision about which exact model of digital AP to
go with. The servos would be different if you were building a Lancair IV.
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing order + components
--> RV10-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Hello Rick and James,
sorry to put things here in a bit a different light, the servos are all the same
from the dimension, however, they are different in torque they do supply (and
Amps they use), so best thing is just to call/email them up and ask for the
type you need for the aileron.
br Werner
Rick wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
>James,
>
>All the trutrak servos are the same, it goes easily in the right wing with the
supplied brackets. I picked mine up from Less Drag products but there are other
dealers, his service and the ability to buy just one servo at a time was cool.
Sit down before you read the price though. I need some more info on Vans roll
trim. My wings are done and wired so I'm in no hurry to add my roll trim just
yet but it looks easy to install on the inboard access panel.
>
>Email me off line for my phone number if you want to discuss and I can tell you
a lot more than typing it.
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>Fuselage
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
Just a note on RUSHING to put warning systems on your gull wing doors that are
not closed completely. There are several warning systems on planes today that
still are ignored every day.............landing gear, stall, etc. WHY do we
still have planes land GEAR UP? Warning lites/horns are nice but is still comes
down to PILOT error! Then you have to consider a MALFUNCTIONING warning system,
weight, and more electrical wire/potential problems. Can we and should
we put a WARNING system on everything in our plane? Would that eliminate all
incidents! JMHO
DEAN
Just a note on RUSHING to put warning systems on your gull wing doors that are
not closed completely. There are several warning systems on planes today that
still are ignored every day.............landing gear, stall, etc. WHY do we still
have planes land GEAR UP? Warning lites/horns are nice but is still comes
down to PILOT error! Then you have to consider a MALFUNCTIONING warning system,
weight, and more electrical wire/potential problems. Can we and should we put
a WARNING system on everything in our plane? Would that eliminate all incidents!
JMHO
DEAN
Message 5
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I did this same thing and had the same "problem", I thought I would out
think Vans and removed the powder coating to see what was missed, found
that over 1/4" was not welded, so took it to the local welding shop, had
them "fix it" and called Vans the next morning to report the problem.
I was then told that this was designed this way according to the drawing
they purposely do not weld that area on both Horns. The powder coating
usually covers it, but we all have those gaps. Needless to say, I
ordered a new horn, and I quit trying to outthink them.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G.
Wright
Subject: RV10-List: Elevator horn
I was following an earlier tip of spraying primer into the steel tube
portion of the elevator horn then swishing it around for coverage, when
I had primer run out of the weld. I have very limited welding
experience and wouldn't think a pinhole miss during the weld would be a
big deal. Any comments on the integrity of the weld?
Oh, got to see Vic and Carol Syracuse's -10 at the SERFI this past
weekend at Evergreen, AL. I wasn't expecting to see a -10 there, so I
was awesomely surprised, especially since my wife was there and she
could finally see the end product of all my time out in the workshop.
He's got a beautiful piece of workmanship.
Rob
Riveting elevators
Message 6
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Glad you called them so I didn't have to.
Rob
Cautiously proceeding
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator horn
I did this same thing and had the same "problem", I thought I would out
think Vans and removed the powder coating to see what was missed, found that
over 1/4" was not welded, so took it to the local welding shop, had them
"fix it" and called Vans the next morning to report the problem.
I was then told that this was designed this way according to the drawing
they purposely do not weld that area on both Horns. The powder coating
usually covers it, but we all have those gaps. Needless to say, I ordered a
new horn, and I quit trying to outthink them.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright
Subject: RV10-List: Elevator horn
I was following an earlier tip of spraying primer into the steel tube
portion of the elevator horn then swishing it around for coverage, when I
had primer run out of the weld. I have very limited welding experience and
wouldn't think a pinhole miss during the weld would be a big deal. Any
comments on the integrity of the weld?
Oh, got to see Vic and Carol Syracuse's -10 at the SERFI this past weekend
at Evergreen, AL. I wasn't expecting to see a -10 there, so I was awesomely
surprised, especially since my wife was there and she could finally see the
end product of all my time out in the workshop. He's got a beautiful piece
of workmanship.
Rob
Riveting elevators
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incident |
Hi all,
Is it a good suggestion not to use a warning if the door in question suffers a
catastrophic failure when not properly latched?
I think the microswitch option suggested is a good one, but rather than wire it
to a warning light, wire it into the starter circuit, no locked door is no start
in that case.
The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in flight and the
engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try to latch the door and
then restart, on the other hand, if that all happens in that sequence you might
want to vacate the aircraft whilst the door is open anyway...........
----- Original Message -----
From: ddddsp1@juno.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
Just a note on RUSHING to put warning systems on your gull wing doors that are
not closed completely. There are several warning systems on planes today that
still are ignored every day.............landing gear, stall, etc. WHY do
we still have planes land GEAR UP? Warning lites/horns are nice but is still
comes down to PILOT error! Then you have to consider a MALFUNCTIONING warning
system, weight, and more electrical wire/potential problems. Can we and should
we put a WARNING system on everything in our plane? Would that eliminate all
incidents! JMHO
DEAN
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing order + components |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
One more thing. If you experience any issues with the servos
not having enough torque after you fly with them, TruTrak has
an easy retrofit torque enhancement kit. Not sure if the
-10 will need these yet or not....not enough flying to give
the feedback.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>
> A bit more clarification. Trutrak has a series of servos to accomodate different
aircraft. Additionally the servo for pitch is different than for roll.
For the RV-10 they use Type C servos. Purchasing these with the install kits
will allow you to defer the decision about which exact model of digital AP to
go with. The servos would be different if you were building a Lancair IV.
>
> Bob
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tue Oct 11 22:00:12 2005
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing order + components
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Hello Rick and James,
>
> sorry to put things here in a bit a different light, the servos are all
> the same from the dimension, however, they are different in torque they
> do supply (and Amps they use), so best thing is just to call/email them
> up and ask for the type you need for the aileron.
>
> br Werner
>
> Rick wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>
>>James,
>>
>>All the trutrak servos are the same, it goes easily in the right wing with the
supplied brackets. I picked mine up from Less Drag products but there are other
dealers, his service and the ability to buy just one servo at a time was cool.
Sit down before you read the price though. I need some more info on Vans
roll trim. My wings are done and wired so I'm in no hurry to add my roll trim
just yet but it looks easy to install on the inboard access panel.
>>
>>Email me off line for my phone number if you want to discuss and I can tell you
a lot more than typing it.
>>
>>Rick S.
>>40185
>>Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incident |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
So if the microswitches act up, you can't fly? I'd think
a warning light or buzzer should be sufficient.
I might add microswitches, mainly as a burglar alarm.
As for the door latching, I think I'll make that just a
strong point on the checklist. In the case of this
pilot and plane, the pilot wasn't the builder, so they
weren't as familiar with the system. I've sat inside
and latched the doors a few times, and I think that if
you had it so far off that the pin was outside the
aircraft, you'd be able to notice it easy enough.
Mike's suggestion of a safety strap wouldn't be
a bad idea for those inclined either. Just a simple
strap with many simple fasteners would work.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
RAS wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is it a good suggestion not to use a warning if the door in question
> suffers a catastrophic failure when not properly latched?
> I think the microswitch option suggested is a good one, but rather than
> wire it to a warning light, wire it into the starter circuit, no locked
> door is no start in that case.
> The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in
> flight and the engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try to
> latch the door and then restart, on the other hand, if that all happens
> in that sequence you might want to vacate the aircraft whilst the door
> is open anyway...........
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* ddddsp1@juno.com <mailto:ddddsp1@juno.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:53 PM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
>
> Just a note on RUSHING to put warning systems on your gull wing
> doors that are not closed completely. There are several warning
> systems on planes today that still are ignored every
> day.............landing gear, stall, etc. WHY do we still have
> planes land GEAR UP? Warning lites/horns are nice but is still
> comes down to PILOT error! Then you have to consider a
> MALFUNCTIONING warning system, weight, and more electrical
> wire/potential problems. Can we and should we put a WARNING system
> on everything in our plane? Would that eliminate all incidents! JMHO
>
> DEAN
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
We have been concerned about this as well. Some kind of warning system
would be good, but it is pretty easy to tell how well the door is closed by
pushing out on the back of the door. Just having that on a checklist helps
a lot. Knowing how to close the doors correctly helps as well, but you
won't always have both front seats filled with people who know how to close
the doors.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org/>
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
"Yikes" is an understatement! With all the normal stuff a pilot on his
first flight has to deal with, losing a door is a hell of a distraction!
Kudos to the pilot. Bet it took him a while to burn off that adrenalin
rush!!!
Linn
do not archive
rv10builder wrote:
Anyone seen this?
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=3637
Yikes!
Brian
#40308
_____
Message 11
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
The gull wing doors on a Velocity usually won't depart in flight if one
forgets to latch it due to a high pressure in the door region.
Nonetheless, most builders position a microswitch such that the latching
pin actuates it when it travels into the proper receiving hole. Velos
drivers would never tie the door switch to the engine. Being a pusher,
we taxi around with the gull doors open for au natural air conditioning.
I have the door microswitches tied to a red light on the panel. No red
lights allowed for takeoff.
Chuck
Do Not Archvie
Message 12
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
It could be a better design, but it is NOT difficult to get the rear portion
of the door flush from the front seats. You just need to know how. It does
take a little bit of technique. Without having the plane sitting here I
can't tell you exactly, but I think I remember that if you pull the door
closed and pull/push forward on the handle while pulling in, then the back
of the door seats well enough for the door latch to catch.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org/>
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
In a message dated 10/11/2005 10:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
rv10builder@bellsouth.net writes:
Anyone seen this?
Not the entire door coming off!!! I did see the factory demo at Sun
n Fun with the rear door pin on the outside a few times when potential
customers sat inside and tried to latch the door shut. The outside paint is
damaged in this area of that bird. The reps, kept telling people, Dont
latch the door.
The design seemed very weak at best to me. there is NO mechanism to draw
the door in for latching, and it is a difficult pull from the front seat to
get the rear portion flush before flipping the latch. Any ideas or reworks
of the design?
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Steve
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder (almost) / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
Message 13
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
The problem with this is that if you are sitting in the sun on a nice
Florida summer day (or any summer day, for that matter), you don't want to
latch yourself in before spinning that starter. You don't want to latch the
doors until you are ready to taxi at the earliest, and usually not until you
are ready to enter the runway. Further, after you land, you will want to
open the doors while you are taxiing as well. Linking the doors to the
starter switch would be a big "NO-NO" in my book.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org/>
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAS
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
Hi all,
Is it a good suggestion not to use a warning if the door in question suffers
a catastrophic failure when not properly latched?
I think the microswitch option suggested is a good one, but rather than wire
it to a warning light, wire it into the starter circuit, no locked door is
no start in that case.
The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in flight
and the engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try to latch the
door and then restart, on the other hand, if that all happens in that
sequence you might want to vacate the aircraft whilst the door is open
anyway...........
----- Original Message -----
From: ddddsp1@juno.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
Just a note on RUSHING to put warning systems on your gull wing doors that
are not closed completely. There are several warning systems on planes
today that still are ignored every day.............landing gear, stall, etc.
WHY do we still have planes land GEAR UP? Warning lites/horns are nice but
is still comes down to PILOT error! Then you have to consider a
MALFUNCTIONING warning system, weight, and more electrical wire/potential
problems. Can we and should we put a WARNING system on everything in our
plane? Would that eliminate all incidents! JMHO
DEAN
Message 14
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| Subject: | AutoPilot Servos and Turbulent Flight |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
I don't know what servos we have, but we have had not problem at all with
the TruTrak servos. I think we just got the ones they recommend for the
RV-10. We do have aileron trim, so we like to trim it out before activating
the auto pilot, but the thing works great, even in some turbulence, and is
especially handy on an approach with the GPS-S option. We are thinking of
upgrading to the VS version, which would be great on an approach, not to
mention just taking a lot of the hastle out of getting to and from the
altitudes that you want in flight.
KUDOS to TruTrak for an awesome system.
Oh, by the way, to address some of the discussion from months ago about
handling in turbulence, it does a great job. It is not difficult to keep
control when bouncing around. This plane does not handle like the smaller
ones, as I understand. It handles nicer in smooth air, of course, but it is
not a handful in turbulence. The autopilot even does a nice job in rough
air.
N256H with over 100 on the HOBBS
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing order + components
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
One more thing. If you experience any issues with the servos
not having enough torque after you fly with them, TruTrak has
an easy retrofit torque enhancement kit. Not sure if the
-10 will need these yet or not....not enough flying to give
the feedback.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)"
<bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>
> A bit more clarification. Trutrak has a series of servos to accomodate
different aircraft. Additionally the servo for pitch is different than for
roll. For the RV-10 they use "Type C" servos. Purchasing these with the
install kits will allow you to defer the decision about which exact model of
digital AP to go with. The servos would be different if you were building a
Lancair IV.
>
> Bob
> --------------------------
> Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tue Oct 11 22:00:12 2005
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wing order + components
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Hello Rick and James,
>
> sorry to put things here in a bit a different light, the servos are all
> the same from the dimension, however, they are different in torque they
> do supply (and Amps they use), so best thing is just to call/email them
> up and ask for the type you need for the aileron.
>
> br Werner
>
> Rick wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>
>>James,
>>
>>All the trutrak servos are the same, it goes easily in the right wing with
the supplied brackets. I picked mine up from Less Drag products but there
are other dealers, his service and the ability to buy just one servo at a
time was cool. Sit down before you read the price though. I need some more
info on Vans roll trim. My wings are done and wired so I'm in no hurry to
add my roll trim just yet but it looks easy to install on the inboard access
panel.
>>
>>Email me off line for my phone number if you want to discuss and I can
tell you a lot more than typing it.
>>
>>Rick S.
>>40185
>>Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Anybody who comes up with a good safety strap system, please let us know.
We have thought about it but haven't had time to actually try anything out
yet.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
So if the microswitches act up, you can't fly? I'd think
a warning light or buzzer should be sufficient.
I might add microswitches, mainly as a burglar alarm.
As for the door latching, I think I'll make that just a
strong point on the checklist. In the case of this
pilot and plane, the pilot wasn't the builder, so they
weren't as familiar with the system. I've sat inside
and latched the doors a few times, and I think that if
you had it so far off that the pin was outside the
aircraft, you'd be able to notice it easy enough.
Mike's suggestion of a safety strap wouldn't be
a bad idea for those inclined either. Just a simple
strap with many simple fasteners would work.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
RAS wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is it a good suggestion not to use a warning if the door in question
> suffers a catastrophic failure when not properly latched?
> I think the microswitch option suggested is a good one, but rather than
> wire it to a warning light, wire it into the starter circuit, no locked
> door is no start in that case.
> The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in
> flight and the engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try to
> latch the door and then restart, on the other hand, if that all happens
> in that sequence you might want to vacate the aircraft whilst the door
> is open anyway...........
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* ddddsp1@juno.com <mailto:ddddsp1@juno.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:53 PM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
>
> Just a note on RUSHING to put warning systems on your gull wing
> doors that are not closed completely. There are several warning
> systems on planes today that still are ignored every
> day.............landing gear, stall, etc. WHY do we still have
> planes land GEAR UP? Warning lites/horns are nice but is still
> comes down to PILOT error! Then you have to consider a
> MALFUNCTIONING warning system, weight, and more electrical
> wire/potential problems. Can we and should we put a WARNING system
> on everything in our plane? Would that eliminate all incidents! JMHO
>
> DEAN
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wing order + components |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Good point Werner,
I did kinda lump that together in a whiz bang statement. I should have said it
didn't matter which control head (in the digital models) all the servos for the
RV-10 were the same were the same. Best bet like Werner said is to write or
talk to your dealer for the inside scoop. For all you working on other than the
fuselage, if your uncomfortable with 470 rivets ya better get over it!!! Lots
of them on the Fuse.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Wing order + components |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
Linn,
How familiar are you with stepper motors? The servo's used on the TT appear to
be based on stepper motors. These are not quite like a DC or AC motor. They
have two sets of windings and by playing with the current direction, one can
literally step the motor forward or backward.
The nice thing is that when none of the windings are energized the motor is free
to turn. By shorting the windings together, the motor Locks in place.
But, unlike a dc motor you cannot just reduce the voltage and reduce the holding
power of the stepper.
So the autopilot servo is either fully engaged and controlling the linkage or its
disengaged and completely passive.
Later, Jim C
N312F, #40192
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jim, thanks for the reply. I didn't know how the trim was connected, so
I did learn something there. I hate re-inventing the wheel, so to
speak, but would probably investigate controlling the AP servo with low
voltage ( low forces) and small steps from neutral ..... creating just
enough control to allow the plane to fly hands off ..... which is the
goal. Just something to think about. But, when I start building .... I
won't have much time to 'invent' stuff so the idea will probably end up
back in the cobwebs.
Linn
Jim Combs wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
>
>Linn,
>
>The trim system is a spring biased connection to the aileron controls. The centering
of the bias springs is controlled by a slow moving servo. The pilot can
override the spring bias for aileron control.
>
>The autopilot servo is normally disengaged from the aileron control system. In
this mode the autopilot servo provides no forces on the aileron controls (other
than a slight gear train drag). However, when engaged, it drives the aileron
controls with considerable force. Not just a spring bias as with the aileron
trim. It is also capable of moving the ailerons much quicker than the trim
servo (based on commands from the autopilot).
>
>They are two different systems connected to the aileron controls.
>
>The same logic applies to the elevator trim / Autopilot servo except the elevator
trim servos operate the elevator trim tabs vs a spring connection. The autopilot
servo drives the elevator control directly just like the aileron servo.
>
>Jim Combs
>#40192 - N312F - Fuselage
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:27:57 -0400
>
>
>The question that popped into my mind was ..... why do you need two
>servo's (trim and AP)??? It seems like the auto pilot automatically
>provides a 'trim' funtion. BUT, without the autopilot engaged, why
>can't the autopilot servo be driven manually???? What am I missing???
>Linn ..... doing a lot of pondering lately
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incident |
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlepyTF8JxEGejHj3Vvc4SWKGAAAQAAAAiGggZv0DL0G3yZfW2h8NewEAAAAA@itecusa.org>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Just an addition thoughts off the top of my head. What if the switch is
wired into only the "starter" circuit. Having the door pop open in flight
would not "stall" the engine. But that could cause the problem of a bad
switch and a stopped engine. Then an air restart would not be possible using
the starter. How about a "gear up" type light system. Red it's open, green
it's latched. Do Not Archive KABONG
"Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> Anybody who comes up with a good safety strap system, please let us know.
> We have thought about it but haven't had time to actually try anything out
> yet.
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> RAS wrote:
>> The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in
>> flight and the engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try to
>> latch the door and then restart, on the other hand, if that all happens
>> in that sequence you might want to vacate the aircraft whilst the door
>> is open anyway...........
Message 19
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| Subject: | snap bushings... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hi all,
I just had a snap bushing pop out of the hole on my horizontal
stabilizer... having blindly followed the plans, the snap bushing is now
rolling around in between the nose ribs where I will never be able to
pull it out (well I can probably grab it with some needle nosed pliers
and pull it out in peices) or put it back into place.
Looking at the bushings that are supposed to go into the elevators, it
looks like the plans call them out the same way... it seems like they
are supposed to be installed in the direction that you would not be able
to remove them once the part is closed up. Is there a reason for this?
I don't see why for all the future ones I have to do I couldn't install
them facing the other way so that they can be removed or replaced
without dropping them into the part... or am I missing something here?
thanks,
James
#40400 - elevators
Message 20
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
How about is the door is not latched, an image of Angelina Jolie comes
up on the EFIS and says, "Don't forget to check the door latch."?
Oops, am I obsessing again?
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Just an addition thoughts off the top of my head. What if the switch is
wired into only the "starter" circuit. Having the door pop open in
flight
would not "stall" the engine. But that could cause the problem of a bad
switch and a stopped engine. Then an air restart would not be possible
using
the starter. How about a "gear up" type light system. Red it's open,
green
it's latched. Do Not Archive KABONG
"Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> Anybody who comes up with a good safety strap system, please let us
know.
> We have thought about it but haven't had time to actually try anything
out
> yet.
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> RAS wrote:
>> The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in
>> flight and the engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try
to
>> latch the door and then restart, on the other hand, if that all
happens
>> in that sequence you might want to vacate the aircraft whilst the
door
>> is open anyway...........
Message 21
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| Subject: | Counter sinking - just how much really to get a good fit |
Well, let's see if we can bury this topic. As such, this is a long post.
Last night I took a careful look at the countersinking. Some were cockeyed,
that is, they were not uniformly round and thus might have blocked a good
fit. Some weren't countersunk enough. Some weren't countersunk at all (how
I missed 3 holes entirely I thought would be beyond me, but apparently
not...don't work too late into the night may be the moral). So, I fixed all
this and made them all uniformly a wee bit deeper. Then I refit the piece.
Fit fine. However, I think I may have actually not done it correctly.
This morning I was catching up on the RV mail bag and found a whole
discussion on countersinking. Would have answered all my questions at once
(and by the way, thanks for the information on what books to buy...they are
ordered) had I been up-to-date in my reading!
For those who do not subscribe or read the general RV Matronics list, I've
copied the conversation here so we can have it on file and others who are
just on this list can search on the topic and be done with it. I think the
discussion was a good one. (I've removed some of the material to make it
shorter, but none of the good stuff.) There was more discussion that
followed what I've copied here, but I'll ask that you go to the Matronics RV
site for yourself to read the rest. The basics are below.
Three links that might be helpful and/or informative, one to the Matronics
RV site with the follow-on discussions, one to a university / government
publication mentioned in the follow on discussion, and one to Scott
Bilinski's work on the strength of rivets set incorrectly, which I found
very informative.
<http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list/Digest.RV-List.2005-10-07.html>
http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list/Digest.RV-List.2005-10-07.html
<http://www.tech.purdue.edu/at/courses/at308/Technical_Links/MMPDS/OptionsMe
nu.pdf>
http://www.tech.purdue.edu/at/courses/at308/Technical_Links/MMPDS/OptionsMen
u.pdf
<http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/marvelrivets.html>
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/marvelrivets.html
Thanks for you patience and help
John Jessen
40328 HS
==========
Time: 03:05:26 PM PST US
From: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
Subject: RV-List: Properly setting rivets with dimpled surfaces
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan Charrois <danlist@syz.com>
Hi everyone. I'm just getting started on an RV-10 project and practiced
riveting a bit on scrap material first last night. And I've run into a
couple of problems/questions that I'm sure at least some of you have had,
but I couldn't find anything in a search of the archives.
First question - riveting two dimpled surfaces together: I've seen all
kinds of resources saying that a rivet is set properly if the shop head is
at least 1.5 times the diameter of the rivet and has a height of 0.5 times
the diameter. That's fine and straightforward when riveting two flat
(non-dimpled) pieces. But when measuring the shop head height formed
against the back side of a dimpled piece, is the shop height measured as
the amount the back of the rivet extends from the maximum height of the
dimple, or from the amount the rivet extends from the non-dimpled surface?
(not sure if I'm explaining this clearly, but hopefully you can get what I
mean) If the shop head height is measured from the surrounding non-dimpled
surface, I suspect that it may not be thick enough since some of the rivet
that would normally be formed in a shop head on flat surfaces would be
within the dimple itself and wouldn't contribute to the head. If it's
measured from the "crown" of the dimple, it would seem as though the rivet
would need to be a bit longer (by an amount equal to the depth of the
dimple) to form the same size of shop head as if it were on undimpled
material. But I haven't seen any references in the reading I've done
indicating that the rivets made to join two dimpled surfaces should be
longer than if the shop head is to form on an undimpled surface.
Second question - countersinking to receive a dimpled surface:I read that
when countersinking to receive a dimpled surface, it should be drilled
about 0.005" deeper than if the countersink was to just receive the head of
a flush rivet, so that the dimple will fit properly into the countersink.
But in the test pieces I was trying to join, I had to drill substantially
deeper than this so that the dimple would fit within the countersink to
allow the pieces to lay flush against each other. And I don't want to have
"loose" holes by drilling the countersink deeper than necessary. It seemed
to be due to the underside of the dimple (the part formed by the female
die) starting out with a larger diameter than the starting diameter of the
countersunk hole when the hole was drilled to 0.005" deeper than required
to receive the head of the flush rivet. And I'm pretty sure that I used
the same size countersink bit as dimple die - of course, I could have made
a mistake, but the pilot/guide of both the countersink bit and dimple die
fit perfectly into the hole that I had drilled. Does anyone have an idea
what I'm doing wrong? Am I dimpling too deep or something? I was under
the impression that I had to press the dimple die so that the flat surface
of the die was flush with the flat surface of the surrounding metal, but I
presume that if I dimple less it may fit within the countersink better. In
either case, a flush rivet seems to fit very nicely on the surface of the
dimple as it is, and if I dimple less, it may protrude a bit out.
I've also found that even when riveting flat sheets together, the range of
the shop head being hit or squeezed enough to have a large enough diameter
while not too much that it ends up too thin is very small - smaller than I
anticipated. I'm sure I'll get used to exactly the right amount with
practice, but does anyone else find it to be this way? In any case, I'm
glad that I decided to try practicing a bit first before getting into the
real construction.
And lastly, I've read in the archives that some people prefer to drill a
hole slightly smaller than required when dimpling a skin (using a #41
instead of #40, for example), since the hole will expand slightly while
dimpling. Is this just being overzealous, or is there a good case to be
made for this? I'm thinking that if the hole were slightly smaller, the
rivet would expand a bit less while filling the hole, leaving a bit more
material for the shop head, making the tolerances for setting it just the
right amount a bit less fine.
Any advice that anyone can provide to a beginner like myself?
Thanks! Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
________________________________ Message 15
_________________________________
Time: 04:38:05 PM PST US
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Properly setting rivets with dimpled surfaces
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> when measuring the shop head height formed against the back side of a
> dimpled piece, is the shop height measured as the amount the back of
> the rivet extends from the maximum height of the dimple, or from the
> amount the rivet extends from the non-dimpled surface? (not sure if
Measure the shop head height *not including* the height of the dimple. Pick
up a copy of "Aircraft Sheet Metal." Great book!
Also keep in mind that there is a *range* of acceptable dimensions for rivet
heads. <http://images.rvproject.com/MIL-R-47196A_MI.pdf>
http://images.rvproject.com/MIL-R-47196A_MI.pdf Take a peek at that
Mil-Spec for reference.
> drilled. Does anyone have an idea what I'm doing wrong? Am I
> dimpling too deep or something? I was under the impression that I
You're not doing anything wrong. Just countersink deep enough to get a good
FIT, without "bottoming out" through the material. Kitplanes magazine is
running a series called "Build Your Skills," and in the 4th and 5th
installments it goes into gory detail about dimpling and countersinking.
> had to press the dimple die so that the flat surface of the die was
> flush with the flat surface of the surrounding metal, but I presume
> that if I dimple less it may fit within the countersink better. In
Don't dimple "less." Whack the crap out of it and get yourself a nice crisp
dimple.
> I've also found that even when riveting flat sheets together, the
> range of the shop head being hit or squeezed enough to have a large
> enough diameter while not too much that it ends up too thin is very
> small - smaller than I anticipated. I'm sure I'll get used to
> exactly the right amount with practice, but does anyone else find it
> to be this way? In any case, I'm glad that I decided to try
> practicing a bit first before getting into the real construction.
Again, reference that Mil-Spec link above. Sometimes you just have to
"average" it out. There is a range of acceptable dimensions, and if I
recall, the height dimension varies based on tension or shear (I could be
mistaken about that).
> And lastly, I've read in the archives that some people prefer to
> drill a hole slightly smaller than required when dimpling a skin
> (using a #41 instead of #40, for example), since the hole will expand
> slightly while dimpling. Is this just being overzealous, or is there
> a good case to be made for this? I'm thinking that if the hole were
I'm sure people will argue one way or the other, but why not do what the kit
manufacturer recommends, which is to use a #40 drill? Keep it simple.
Don't overthink this stuff. You're building a light airplane, not the space
shuttle or a Swiss watch. ;-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
<http://www.rvproject.com/> http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________ Message 16
_________________________________
Time: 05:25:27 PM PST US
From: PJ Seipel <seipel@seznam.cz>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Properly setting rivets with dimpled surfaces
--> RV-List message posted by: PJ Seipel <seipel@seznam.cz>
Dan,
1) Measure from the top of the dimple. The rivet doesn't need to be
longer. On the RV-10 Vans does a pretty decent job of calling out the right
size rivets.
2) Countersink deep enough that the dimple sits flush in the countersink
after you rivet it. It's probably going to be more than .005".
3) With practice you'll be able to look at them and tell if they're good.
I've been told that it's better to have them a bit flat than under-driven.
4) I don't have experience with drilling a smaller hole, but there are
thousands of RV's flying who's builders didn't drill undersize holes, so I
doubt it's necessary.
PJ
40032
________________________________ Message 17
_________________________________
Time: 06:59:22 PM PST US
From: "D.Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Properly setting rivets with dimpled surfaces
--> RV-List message posted by: "D.Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
Be careful here. With a quality dimpling die, the under side of a dimpled
hole is the same size as the top. You can see this when you put 2 dimpled
sheets together - they fit just fine. However, when fitting the dimpled
sheet into a countersunk piece you can have a problem with fit because the
edge of the countersunk hole is sharp and the corresponding point on the
bottom of the dimple is not, (quality "spring back" dies may give a sharper
transition than cheap dies) especially if you didn't use enough force when
forming the dimple. Also, dimpling can distort the sheet of aluminum making
it look like the dimple/countersink is a poor fit. It's very easy to make
the countersunk hole too big, trying to compensate for this miss fit and
then you've got a mess.
In theory at least, the countersunk hole should fit the rivet. Don't
arbitrarily make it bigger, figure out why it doesn't fit and fix it
Dave Bristol, -6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor
________________________________ Message 18
_________________________________
Time: 09:54:41 PM PST US
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Properly setting rivets with dimpled surfaces
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 18:57:18 2005-10-06 "D.Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "D.Bristol" <dbris200@sbcglobal.net>
> Be careful here. With a quality dimpling die, the under side of a
> dimpled hole is the same size as the top. You can see this when you
> put 2 dimpled sheets together - they fit just fine. However, when
> fitting the dimpled sheet into a countersunk piece you can have a
> problem with fit because the edge of the countersunk hole is sharp
> and the corresponding point on the bottom of the dimple is not,
> (quality "spring back" dies may give a sharper transition than cheap
> dies) especially if you didn't use enough force when forming the
> dimple.
The engineer in me must speak up: A countersunk hole will always have a
sharp transition at the top corner, unless you remove it. A dimpled piece
of aluminum will always have a rounded (or filleted) corner in the
corresponding location. This means you will end up with one of two
situations:
One, you can countersink until the skin sits flat, in which case there will
be an air gap under the dimpled skin in the "cone" of the countersink. You
don't want this. It's not as strong a joint, and can lead to corrosion in
the cavities, well beyond where you can see it happening.
Two, you can countersink to fit the rivet, in which case the skin will *not*
sit flat in the countersink. This is not a problem, if your dimple is good.
When you drive the rivet it will drive that rounded corner into a sharp one
and it will all become flush. This is what you want.
So: Countersink only far enough to fit the head of the rivet. There's no
reason to go further
As for drilling a smaller hole so everything is "tighter", the engineer in
me says you will end up with a smaller diameter of "meat" in the hole once
the rivet is driven. This means that every rivet joint will be slightly
less strong than it was designed to be. Which means your airplane is
slightly less strong than it was designed to be. Why would you want that?
Stop second-guessing the designer.
-Rob
________________________________ Message 19
_________________________________
Time: 10:57:03 PM PST US
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Properly setting rivets with dimpled surfaces
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Remind me tomorrow to put an AN426AD3-x rivet in my female dimple die. I
honestly haven't even tried that yet...but I intend to! I wonder if the
rivet will sit flush or sit low. My $.02 bet is that it will sit low.
I'll try to remember to check it out tomorrow...
Also, there is a distinction between "spring back" dimple dies and the
regular flavor. The end result is supposed to be the same but it may not
be.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
<http://www.rvproject.com/> http://www.rvproject.com
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Counter sinking - just how much really to get a good
fit
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
You can deepen them a bit more just watch out for the hole enlarging and
really making a mess of the countersink and hole. I think you will find that
when you rivet the skins to the flange everything will suck up tight in the
assembly. Get ready to rivet and see what happens, if it still sits high
drill it out and deepen the countersink, I had several areas like this and
it worked out OK as I riveted.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incident |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Well, the problem with that is no one would ever latch the door... ;)
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
>How about is the door is not latched, an image of Angelina Jolie comes
>up on the EFIS and says, "Don't forget to check the door latch."?
>
>Oops, am I obsessing again?
>
>TDT
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
>Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:37 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
>Just an addition thoughts off the top of my head. What if the switch is
>wired into only the "starter" circuit. Having the door pop open in
>flight
>would not "stall" the engine. But that could cause the problem of a bad
>switch and a stopped engine. Then an air restart would not be possible
>using
>the starter. How about a "gear up" type light system. Red it's open,
>green
>it's latched. Do Not Archive KABONG
>
>"Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
>
>>Anybody who comes up with a good safety strap system, please let us
>>
>>
>know.
>
>
>>We have thought about it but haven't had time to actually try anything
>>
>>
>out
>
>
>>yet.
>>
>>
>>Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>>RAS wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in
>>>flight and the engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try
>>>
>>>
>to
>
>
>>>latch the door and then restart, on the other hand, if that all
>>>
>>>
>happens
>
>
>>>in that sequence you might want to vacate the aircraft whilst the
>>>
>>>
>door
>
>
>>>is open anyway...........
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen@dts9000.com>
...or, with a position switch on the throttle, a 10,000 candle power red
light will start flashing and/or 100 decibel horn sounds if the throttle
is advanced past the set point and the doors open. Though the idea of
having Angelino pop up better.
Do Not Archvie
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Just an addition thoughts off the top of my head. What if the switch is
wired into only the "starter" circuit. Having the door pop open in
flight
would not "stall" the engine. But that could cause the problem of a bad
switch and a stopped engine. Then an air restart would not be possible
using
the starter. How about a "gear up" type light system. Red it's open,
green
it's latched. Do Not Archive KABONG
"Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> Anybody who comes up with a good safety strap system, please let us
know.
> We have thought about it but haven't had time to actually try anything
out
> yet.
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> RAS wrote:
>> The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in
>> flight and the engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try
to
>> latch the door and then restart, on the other hand, if that all
happens
>> in that sequence you might want to vacate the aircraft whilst the
door
>> is open anyway...........
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | snap bushings... |
Easier solution is to put a dab of E6000 on them to hold them tight.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing assembly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
Subject: RV10-List: snap bushings...
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hi all,
I just had a snap bushing pop out of the hole on my horizontal stabilizer... having
blindly followed the plans, the snap bushing is now rolling around in between
the nose ribs where I will never be able to pull it out (well I can probably
grab it with some needle nosed pliers and pull it out in peices) or put it
back into place.
Looking at the bushings that are supposed to go into the elevators, it looks like
the plans call them out the same way... it seems like they are supposed to
be installed in the direction that you would not be able to remove them once the
part is closed up. Is there a reason for this?
I don't see why for all the future ones I have to do I couldn't install them facing
the other way so that they can be removed or replaced without dropping them
into the part... or am I missing something here?
thanks,
James
#40400 - elevators
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | snap bushings... |
So, should we all be "cementing" snap bushings in place? Should this be
standard practice?
John Jessen
40328 HS
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: snap bushings...
Easier solution is to put a dab of E6000 on them to hold them tight.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing assembly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
Subject: RV10-List: snap bushings...
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hi all,
I just had a snap bushing pop out of the hole on my horizontal stabilizer...
having blindly followed the plans, the snap bushing is now rolling around in
between the nose ribs where I will never be able to pull it out (well I can
probably grab it with some needle nosed pliers and pull it out in peices)
or put it back into place.
Looking at the bushings that are supposed to go into the elevators, it looks
like the plans call them out the same way... it seems like they are supposed
to be installed in the direction that you would not be able to remove them
once the part is closed up. Is there a reason for this?
I don't see why for all the future ones I have to do I couldn't install them
facing the other way so that they can be removed or replaced without
dropping them into the part... or am I missing something here?
thanks,
James
#40400 - elevators
====================================
RV10-List Email Forum -
more:
bsp;
====================================
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: snap bushings... |
RE: RV10-List: snap bushings...Not sure of the area but to work loose "metal" items
to an open hole, use a strong magnet on the outside (magnet will not stick
to aluminum) to drag the part over to the opening. It's works on washers, screws
etc on HRII N561FS so it should work on -10's too. KABONG Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: snap bushings...
Easier solution is to put a dab of E6000 on them to hold them tight.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing assembly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:42 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: snap bushings...
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hi all,
I just had a snap bushing pop out of the hole on my horizontal stabilizer...
having blindly followed the plans, the snap bushing is now rolling around in between
the nose ribs where I will never be able to pull it out (well I can probably
grab it with some needle nosed pliers and pull it out in peices) or put
it back into place.
Looking at the bushings that are supposed to go into the elevators, it looks
like the plans call them out the same way... it seems like they are supposed to
be installed in the direction that you would not be able to remove them once
the part is closed up. Is there a reason for this?
I don't see why for all the future ones I have to do I couldn't install them
facing the other way so that they can be removed or replaced without dropping
them into the part... or am I missing something here?
thanks,
James
#40400 - elevators
RV10-List Email Forum -
more:
bsp;
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: snap bushings... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hrm, just to be clear, this is the plastic snap bushings that the
elevator trim cables go through. Is there a reason that they point in
the direction they do on the plans?
Thanks,
James
JOHN STARN wrote:
> Not sure of the area but to work loose "metal" items to an open hole,
> use a strong magnet on the outside (magnet will not stick to
> aluminum) to drag the part over to the opening. It's works on washers,
> screws etc on HRII N561FS so it should work on -10's too. KABONG Do
> Not Archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:53 AM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: snap bushings...
>
> Easier solution is to put a dab of E6000 on them to hold them tight.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Wing assembly
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 11:42 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV10-List: snap bushings...
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
>
> Hi all,
>
> I just had a snap bushing pop out of the hole on my horizontal
> stabilizer... having blindly followed the plans, the snap bushing
> is now rolling around in between the nose ribs where I will never
> be able to pull it out (well I can probably grab it with some
> needle nosed pliers and pull it out in peices) or put it back
> into place.
>
> Looking at the bushings that are supposed to go into the
> elevators, it looks like the plans call them out the same way...
> it seems like they are supposed to be installed in the direction
> that you would not be able to remove them once the part is closed
> up. Is there a reason for this?
> I don't see why for all the future ones I have to do I couldn't
> install them facing the other way so that they can be removed or
> replaced without dropping them into the part... or am I missing
> something here?
>
> thanks,
> James
> #40400 - elevators
>
>
> ====================================
> RV10-List Email Forum -
> more:
> bsp;
> ====================================
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | snap bushings... |
Your choice. I do it in some places where they seem to be a little to sloppy and
where I don't want them vibrating around, especially if I can't get to them
later. Won't hurt, probably will help. In several places in the wing I opted
for rubber grommets. Cheapy HF kind, something like $9 for a box of various
sizes.
Michael
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: snap bushings...
So, should we all be "cementing" snap bushings in place? Should this be standard
practice?
John Jessen
40328 HS
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Subject: RE: RV10-List: snap bushings...
Easier solution is to put a dab of E6000 on them to hold them tight.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing assembly
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
Subject: RV10-List: snap bushings...
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hi all,
I just had a snap bushing pop out of the hole on my horizontal stabilizer... having
blindly followed the plans, the snap bushing is now rolling around in between
the nose ribs where I will never be able to pull it out (well I can probably
grab it with some needle nosed pliers and pull it out in peices) or put it
back into place.
Looking at the bushings that are supposed to go into the elevators, it looks like
the plans call them out the same way... it seems like they are supposed to
be installed in the direction that you would not be able to remove them once the
part is closed up. Is there a reason for this?
I don't see why for all the future ones I have to do I couldn't install them facing
the other way so that they can be removed or replaced without dropping them
into the part... or am I missing something here?
thanks,
James
#40400 - elevators
RV10-List Email Forum -
more:
bsp;
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Wing Tips Don't Line Up |
Thanks for this idea. Unfortunately I have already drilled the wingtips in
place and on one of them have the nutplates attached. I think I will either
have to bend the tips with heat or cut the trailing edges and re-epoxy them.
John Testement
jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Working on wing tips
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Wing Tips Don't Line Up
Best way I have found in 3 planes built is to save the wing tips until the
wings are on the fuse. Line up the flaps perfectly in trail and be sure
they mate to your fuse as you expect, then be sure the ailerons to match the
flaps (or adjust to make them match), then fit the wing tips to match the
ailerons.
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement
Subject: RV10-List: Wing Tips Don't Line Up
I am attaching my wing tips and have all of the nutplates complete on one
and the other drilled and clecoed. Neither of the wing tips line up with the
ailerons in neutral position. I have clamped the ailerons in line with the
flaps in full up position. The trailing edge of the right wing tip is about
1/2" lower than the trailing edge of the aileron. The trailing edge of the
left wing tip is about 1/4" higher than the aileron.
The trailing edges of the wing tips are about 1/4" - 3/8" too long. I can
trim them without breaking the trailing edge joint.
I cannot see any simple way of bending/aligning the wing tips except for
perhaps cutting the trailing edge in half and reattaching them while trying
to twist them into alignment. I would love to hear what others have done to
deal with this. I really hope it is not bad parts cause I have put a lot of
hours into these wingtips.
John Testement
jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Working on QB Wing Tips
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing order + components |
Jim Combs wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
>
>Linn,
>
>How familiar are you with stepper motors?
>
Well, I'm no expert! :-P
> The servo's used on the TT appear to be based on stepper motors. These are
not quite like a DC or AC motor. They have two sets of windings and by playing
with the current direction, one can literally step the motor forward or backward.
>
True ..... actually they can have multiple sets ..... depends on the
step angle.
>The nice thing is that when none of the windings are energized the motor is free
to turn. By shorting the windings together, the motor Locks in place.
>
Now, I didn't know that. I thought they were pulsed and held energized
to lock them.
>But, unlike a dc motor you cannot just reduce the voltage and reduce the holding
power of the stepper.
>
Au Contraire! The torque of the motor depends on the number of windings
and the amount of current in them.
>So the autopilot servo is either fully engaged and controlling the linkage or
its disengaged and completely passive.
>
Well, like I said .... I'm no expert, but think it can be done. Maybe
an expert can chime in ..... or maybe one has already!!! :-)
Thank Jim!!!
Linn
>
>Later, Jim C
>N312F, #40192
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:44:12 -0400
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>Jim, thanks for the reply. I didn't know how the trim was connected, so
>I did learn something there. I hate re-inventing the wheel, so to
>speak, but would probably investigate controlling the AP servo with low
>voltage ( low forces) and small steps from neutral ..... creating just
>enough control to allow the plane to fly hands off ..... which is the
>goal. Just something to think about. But, when I start building .... I
>won't have much time to 'invent' stuff so the idea will probably end up
>back in the cobwebs.
>Linn
>Jim Combs wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
>>
>>Linn,
>>
>>The trim system is a spring biased connection to the aileron controls. The centering
of the bias springs is controlled by a slow moving servo. The pilot
can override the spring bias for aileron control.
>>
>>The autopilot servo is normally disengaged from the aileron control system.
In this mode the autopilot servo provides no forces on the aileron controls (other
than a slight gear train drag). However, when engaged, it drives the aileron
controls with considerable force. Not just a spring bias as with the aileron
trim. It is also capable of moving the ailerons much quicker than the trim
servo (based on commands from the autopilot).
>>
>>They are two different systems connected to the aileron controls.
>>
>>The same logic applies to the elevator trim / Autopilot servo except the elevator
trim servos operate the elevator trim tabs vs a spring connection. The autopilot
servo drives the elevator control directly just like the aileron servo.
>>
>>Jim Combs
>>#40192 - N312F - Fuselage
>>
>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>>Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:27:57 -0400
>>
>>
>>The question that popped into my mind was ..... why do you need two
>>servo's (trim and AP)??? It seems like the auto pilot automatically
>>provides a 'trim' funtion. BUT, without the autopilot engaged, why
>>can't the autopilot servo be driven manually???? What am I missing???
>>Linn ..... doing a lot of pondering lately
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incident |
If you have installed the AF-2500 engine monitor you have digital inputs
that can be used for the door switch. The system allows you to select a Prop RPM
that will activate the verbal "CHECK CANOPY LATCH" and a screen warning if
the input is not made. This will enable you to taxi out with the doors open
and if don't get the doors shut you will get a warning on the run-up.
Red LEDS might work fine if you look at them before take off, for me I want
a verbal warning in the headset as I advanced the throttle.
You should use 4 switches all wired in series.
On the next software release we will add the option of a verbal warning
"CHECK DOOR LATCH".
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incident |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incident |
In a message dated 10/12/2005 3:06:18 PM Pacific Standard Time,
n8vim@arrl.net writes:
How many "extra" inputs are there? It would be cool to have "Check CoPilot
Door...." or "Check Pilot Door...." so you don't ask your passenger to fiddle
with the door if the problem is the pilots door...
We have 4 digital inputs. That is a great idea, I will add both of the
messages to the software.
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
RV-4 N401RH (Flying)
RV-10 N402RH (Elevators finally finished)
Message 34
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| Subject: | snap bushings... |
James,
I had finished the HS and poked my fingers through the rib holes to ensure the
bushings were secure. I felt one had 'worked loose' and gave it a gentle push
to re-seat it - only to find it was already seated properly and in fact I pushed
it out of the hole ;-<. I then had your problem of a bushing rolling around
between the ribs. After much dicking around with a pair of needle nose pliers
and not being able to extract it, I removed the inboard most nose rib. I
think there are are about 7 rivets to remove and the rib is very easy to reinstall.
The job took me about 10 minutes total.
cheers
Ron
Fuse.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Ochs
Subject: RV10-List: snap bushings...
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Hi all,
I just had a snap bushing pop out of the hole on my horizontal
stabilizer... having blindly followed the plans, the snap bushing is now
rolling around in between the nose ribs where I will never be able to
pull it out (well I can probably grab it with some needle nosed pliers
and pull it out in peices) or put it back into place.
Looking at the bushings that are supposed to go into the elevators, it
looks like the plans call them out the same way... it seems like they
are supposed to be installed in the direction that you would not be able
to remove them once the part is closed up. Is there a reason for this?
I don't see why for all the future ones I have to do I couldn't install
them facing the other way so that they can be removed or replaced
without dropping them into the part... or am I missing something here?
thanks,
James
#40400 - elevators
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Door Incident |
Van's aircraft has not lost the door.... I think we have gone over the top here
and into the south 40. Transport aircraft have the systems you describe but that
is because the flight deck crew has many doors and a closed one behind them.
I submit that if a PIC can not/will not follow a check list for something as
basic. doors latched and secure, THEN dancing girls, Angelina Jolie or a hammer
coming out of the panel and striking him in the forehead KABONG will be successful.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RobHickman@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
If you have installed the AF-2500 engine monitor you have digital inputs that
can be used for the door switch. The system allows you to select a Prop RPM that
will activate the verbal "CHECK CANOPY LATCH" and a screen warning if the
input is not made. This will enable you to taxi out with the doors open and
if don't get the doors shut you will get a warning on the run-up.
Red LEDS might work fine if you look at them before take off, for me I want a
verbal warning in the headset as I advanced the throttle.
You should use 4 switches all wired in series.
On the next software release we will add the option of a verbal warning "CHECK
DOOR LATCH".
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
Message 36
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
Actually, someone said Van's was working on a similar system for the exact reason
described. I for one have had "secured" Cessna doors open before on takeoff.
In a Cessna and 90% of other aircraft this is a non-event. In a gull wing
with prop blast, it can easily lead to separation (as has now been shown) and
the last thing I want is to worry about that during a critical phase of flight
or while flying through a turbulent downpour.
I'll take a low tech, $0.99 microswitch and a couple of bucks in wire if it will
save my butt. My strap idea also serves as a way to grab the door and close
it prior to take off.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 wing assembly
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
Van's aircraft has not lost the door.... I think we have gone over the top here
and into the south 40. Transport aircraft have the systems you describe but that
is because the flight deck crew has many doors and a closed one behind them.
I submit that if a PIC can not/will not follow a check list for something as
basic. doors latched and secure, THEN dancing girls, Angelina Jolie or a hammer
coming out of the panel and striking him in the forehead KABONG will be successful.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RobHickman@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
=09
If you have installed the AF-2500 engine monitor you have digital inputs
that can be used for the door switch. The system allows you to select a Prop
RPM that will activate the verbal "CHECK CANOPY LATCH" and a screen warning if
the input is not made. This will enable you to taxi out with the doors open
and if don't get the doors shut you will get a warning on the run-up.
Red LEDS might work fine if you look at them before take off, for me I
want a verbal warning in the headset as I advanced the throttle.
You should use 4 switches all wired in series.
On the next software release we will add the option of a verbal warning
"CHECK DOOR LATCH".
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing order + components |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jim Combs wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
>
>Linn,
>
>How familiar are you with stepper motors?
>
Well, I'm no expert! :-P
> The servo's used on the TT appear to be based on stepper motors. These are
not quite like a DC or AC motor. They have two sets of windings and by playing
with the current direction, one can literally step the motor forward or backward.
>
True ..... actually they can have multiple sets ..... depends on the
step angle.
>The nice thing is that when none of the windings are energized the motor is free
to turn. By shorting the windings together, the motor Locks in place.
>
Now, I didn't know that. I thought they were pulsed and held energized
to lock them.
>But, unlike a dc motor you cannot just reduce the voltage and reduce the holding
power of the stepper.
>
Au Contraire! The torque of the motor depends on the number of windings
and the amount of current in them.
>So the autopilot servo is either fully engaged and controlling the linkage or
its disengaged and completely passive.
>
Well, like I said .... I'm no expert, but think it can be done. Maybe
an expert can chime in ..... or maybe one has already!!! :-)
Thank Jim!!!
Linn
>
>Later, Jim C
>N312F, #40192
>
>Do Not Archive
>
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 22:44:12 -0400
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
>Jim, thanks for the reply. I didn't know how the trim was connected, so
>I did learn something there. I hate re-inventing the wheel, so to
>speak, but would probably investigate controlling the AP servo with low
>voltage ( low forces) and small steps from neutral ..... creating just
>enough control to allow the plane to fly hands off ..... which is the
>goal. Just something to think about. But, when I start building .... I
>won't have much time to 'invent' stuff so the idea will probably end up
>back in the cobwebs.
>Linn
>Jim Combs wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Combs" <jimc@mail.infra-read.com>
>>
>>Linn,
>>
>>The trim system is a spring biased connection to the aileron controls. The centering
of the bias springs is controlled by a slow moving servo. The pilot
can override the spring bias for aileron control.
>>
>>The autopilot servo is normally disengaged from the aileron control system.
In this mode the autopilot servo provides no forces on the aileron controls (other
than a slight gear train drag). However, when engaged, it drives the aileron
controls with considerable force. Not just a spring bias as with the aileron
trim. It is also capable of moving the ailerons much quicker than the trim
servo (based on commands from the autopilot).
>>
>>They are two different systems connected to the aileron controls.
>>
>>The same logic applies to the elevator trim / Autopilot servo except the elevator
trim servos operate the elevator trim tabs vs a spring connection. The autopilot
servo drives the elevator control directly just like the aileron servo.
>>
>>Jim Combs
>>#40192 - N312F - Fuselage
>>
>>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>>From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>>Reply-To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 21:27:57 -0400
>>
>>
>>The question that popped into my mind was ..... why do you need two
>>servo's (trim and AP)??? It seems like the auto pilot automatically
>>provides a 'trim' funtion. BUT, without the autopilot engaged, why
>>can't the autopilot servo be driven manually???? What am I missing???
>>Linn ..... doing a lot of pondering lately
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | solder or crimp?? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "eagerlee" <eagerlee@comcast.net>
How many builders with Tru-Trak servos are using the solder type D-Sub
connectors that they provide. I've been taught and it's my experience that
soldered connections fail prematurely when exposed to vibration. The heat
hardens the copper strands and they get brittle from repeated work hardening
vibrations. It's a definite no-no to solder wires in a certificated
aircraft. Anybody want to voice an opinion here? It will cost me about $44
for the crimpers and about $.40 per pin/socket plus a couple bucks per
plug/receptacle to go the crimped route, which I'll probably do because
there will be many more D-Sub connectors.
Paul Hahn
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: solder or crimp?? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
eagerlee wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "eagerlee" <eagerlee@comcast.net>
>
>
>How many builders with Tru-Trak servos are using the solder type D-Sub
>connectors that they provide. I've been taught and it's my experience that
>soldered connections fail prematurely when exposed to vibration. The heat
>hardens the copper strands and they get brittle from repeated work hardening
>vibrations.
>
Actually, the solder wicks up under the insulation, turning your
stranded wire to solid. Vibrations cause the 'solid' wire to suffer
fatigue failure. It can happen under the insulation which makes it
terribly hard to troubleshoot. You can minimize this failure mode by
using a good temperature controlled soldering iron such as a Weller
soldering station and spending as little time heating the joint as you
can. This is a real balancing act since you want enough heat in the
joint to melt the solder and create a shiny solder fillet without
heating it enough to wick up into the wire.
> It's a definite no-no to solder wires in a certificated
>aircraft.
>
I'm not so sure that's true. Radio harnesses have been soldered for years.
> Anybody want to voice an opinion here?
>
Boy, what an opening!!!! You really should be able to use the solder
connector .... a little piece of heat shrink over the wire/pin will
offer enough physical support to alleviate the fatigue cracking
problem. If you're still worried about it, have your prop dynamically
balanced with an electronic inertia unit.
> It will cost me about $44
>for the crimpers and about $.40 per pin/socket plus a couple bucks per
>plug/receptacle to go the crimped route, which I'll probably do because
>there will be many more D-Sub connectors.
>
You can't go wrong with that approach, if done correctly. I've seen
crimped connectors that were horribly crushed from poor crimping
technique or bad crimpers. Spending the money on crimped d-sub crimpers
(good ones aren't cheap and I don't know what crimper you're looking at)
will probably be a good investment. Good soldering technique isn't
learned in a few hours, so be forewarned.
Linn
do not archive
>
>Paul Hahn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: solder or crimp?? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I took the easy route and went with Stein's harness. It's put together
very nicely. Worth the $time$ saved in my opinion.
<http://www.steinair.com/trutrak.htm>
-Sean #40303 (wing rear spars)
eagerlee wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "eagerlee" <eagerlee@comcast.net>
>
>
> How many builders with Tru-Trak servos are using the solder type D-Sub
> connectors that they provide. I've been taught and it's my experience that
> soldered connections fail prematurely when exposed to vibration. The heat
> hardens the copper strands and they get brittle from repeated work hardening
> vibrations. It's a definite no-no to solder wires in a certificated
> aircraft. Anybody want to voice an opinion here? It will cost me about $44
> for the crimpers and about $.40 per pin/socket plus a couple bucks per
> plug/receptacle to go the crimped route, which I'll probably do because
> there will be many more D-Sub connectors.
>
> Paul Hahn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: solder or crimp?? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
Correct. Properly soldered, not overheated joints are both structurely sound
and perfectly legal in certificated aircraft.
If the wires are properly supported beyond the connector, there won't be any
movement to cause fatigue failure. Sure, crimped connectors are the norm,
but not the rule.
KM
A&P
KCHD
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: solder or crimp??
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
eagerlee wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "eagerlee" <eagerlee@comcast.net>
>
>
>How many builders with Tru-Trak servos are using the solder type D-Sub
>connectors that they provide. I've been taught and it's my experience that
>soldered connections fail prematurely when exposed to vibration. The heat
>hardens the copper strands and they get brittle from repeated work
hardening
>vibrations.
>
Actually, the solder wicks up under the insulation, turning your
stranded wire to solid. Vibrations cause the 'solid' wire to suffer
fatigue failure. It can happen under the insulation which makes it
terribly hard to troubleshoot. You can minimize this failure mode by
using a good temperature controlled soldering iron such as a Weller
soldering station and spending as little time heating the joint as you
can. This is a real balancing act since you want enough heat in the
joint to melt the solder and create a shiny solder fillet without
heating it enough to wick up into the wire.
> It's a definite no-no to solder wires in a certificated
>aircraft.
>
I'm not so sure that's true. Radio harnesses have been soldered for years.
> Anybody want to voice an opinion here?
>
Boy, what an opening!!!! You really should be able to use the solder
connector .... a little piece of heat shrink over the wire/pin will
offer enough physical support to alleviate the fatigue cracking
problem. If you're still worried about it, have your prop dynamically
balanced with an electronic inertia unit.
> It will cost me about $44
>for the crimpers and about $.40 per pin/socket plus a couple bucks per
>plug/receptacle to go the crimped route, which I'll probably do because
>there will be many more D-Sub connectors.
>
You can't go wrong with that approach, if done correctly. I've seen
crimped connectors that were horribly crushed from poor crimping
technique or bad crimpers. Spending the money on crimped d-sub crimpers
(good ones aren't cheap and I don't know what crimper you're looking at)
will probably be a good investment. Good soldering technique isn't
learned in a few hours, so be forewarned.
Linn
do not archive
>
>Paul Hahn
>
>
--
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: solder or crimp?? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
I used crimped connections.
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com <owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: RV10-List: solder or crimp??
--> RV10-List message posted by: "eagerlee" <eagerlee@comcast.net>
How many builders with Tru-Trak servos are using the solder type D-Sub
connectors that they provide. I've been taught and it's my experience that
soldered connections fail prematurely when exposed to vibration. The heat
hardens the copper strands and they get brittle from repeated work hardening
vibrations. It's a definite no-no to solder wires in a certificated
aircraft. Anybody want to voice an opinion here? It will cost me about $44
for the crimpers and about $.40 per pin/socket plus a couple bucks per
plug/receptacle to go the crimped route, which I'll probably do because
there will be many more D-Sub connectors.
Paul Hahn
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: solder or crimp?? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
definitely crimp them. Try http://www.affordablepanels.com/ or
http://www.steinair.com/ for better prices on the connectors, sockets, and
tool. I spoke to TT about the fact that I was just pitching their solder cup
connector and they agreed that they probably ought to provide the crimp
connectors. They have apparently not followed through yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "eagerlee" <eagerlee@comcast.net>
Subject: RV10-List: solder or crimp??
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "eagerlee" <eagerlee@comcast.net>
>
>
> How many builders with Tru-Trak servos are using the solder type D-Sub
> connectors that they provide. I've been taught and it's my experience that
> soldered connections fail prematurely when exposed to vibration. The heat
> hardens the copper strands and they get brittle from repeated work
> hardening
> vibrations. It's a definite no-no to solder wires in a certificated
> aircraft. Anybody want to voice an opinion here? It will cost me about
> $44
> for the crimpers and about $.40 per pin/socket plus a couple bucks per
> plug/receptacle to go the crimped route, which I'll probably do because
> there will be many more D-Sub connectors.
>
> Paul Hahn
>
>
>
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
I think a strap with a secondary position on it would be a good idea as
well, to allow for open cockpit taxiing without stress on the attach
points...
Rob
#392
Elevators
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Anybody who comes up with a good safety strap system, please let us know.
We have thought about it but haven't had time to actually try anything out
yet.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
So if the microswitches act up, you can't fly? I'd think
a warning light or buzzer should be sufficient.
I might add microswitches, mainly as a burglar alarm.
As for the door latching, I think I'll make that just a
strong point on the checklist. In the case of this
pilot and plane, the pilot wasn't the builder, so they
weren't as familiar with the system. I've sat inside
and latched the doors a few times, and I think that if
you had it so far off that the pin was outside the
aircraft, you'd be able to notice it easy enough.
Mike's suggestion of a safety strap wouldn't be
a bad idea for those inclined either. Just a simple
strap with many simple fasteners would work.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
RAS wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is it a good suggestion not to use a warning if the door in question
> suffers a catastrophic failure when not properly latched?
> I think the microswitch option suggested is a good one, but rather than
> wire it to a warning light, wire it into the starter circuit, no locked
> door is no start in that case.
> The only problem you have left then, is when the door unlatches in
> flight and the engine stalls at the same time, you would have to try to
> latch the door and then restart, on the other hand, if that all happens
> in that sequence you might want to vacate the aircraft whilst the door
> is open anyway...........
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* ddddsp1@juno.com <mailto:ddddsp1@juno.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 12, 2005 1:53 PM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Door Incident
>
> Just a note on RUSHING to put warning systems on your gull wing
> doors that are not closed completely. There are several warning
> systems on planes today that still are ignored every
> day.............landing gear, stall, etc. WHY do we still have
> planes land GEAR UP? Warning lites/horns are nice but is still
> comes down to PILOT error! Then you have to consider a
> MALFUNCTIONING warning system, weight, and more electrical
> wire/potential problems. Can we and should we put a WARNING system
> on everything in our plane? Would that eliminate all incidents! JMHO
>
> DEAN
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | RV-10 Door Incident |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
Simple always seems to work, how about VELCRO. Bob K
Message 46
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| Subject: | rv10 fuel senders |
We got some custom capacitive probes from SkySports. (8 inches bendable, 8 inches
measuring, which we bent into an 'S' shape to get most of the tank. We haven't
tested them yet, but we will let people know how they work. Skysports will
make custom lengths for about $75 or $80 each - not bad. They will also customize
the output circuit as needed for your favorite EFIS, engine system, etc.
(0-5 volts, x-y Ohms, etc)
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of L Aune
Subject: RV10-List: rv10 fuel senders
--> RV10-List message posted by: L Aune <lcaune@cablelan.net>
Does anyone have any information on capacitive fuel systems for the
RV10. I'm sure I saw a mention of it on someone's construction site
but I can't find that site.
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: solder or crimp?? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Not to tell about how easy it is, when your servo goes the wrong way
around, just swap the pins, no fiddling with a solder iron inside the
plane. However another about 2-5 bucks for the extraction tool
Werner
do not archive
eagerlee wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "eagerlee" <eagerlee@comcast.net>
>
>
>How many builders with Tru-Trak servos are using the solder type D-Sub
>connectors that they provide. I've been taught and it's my experience that
>soldered connections fail prematurely when exposed to vibration. The heat
>hardens the copper strands and they get brittle from repeated work hardening
>vibrations. It's a definite no-no to solder wires in a certificated
>aircraft. Anybody want to voice an opinion here? It will cost me about $44
>for the crimpers and about $.40 per pin/socket plus a couple bucks per
>plug/receptacle to go the crimped route, which I'll probably do because
>there will be many more D-Sub connectors.
>
>Paul Hahn
>
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