Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Builder's "Get-There-Itis" (John Jessen)
2. 01:39 AM - Re: Builder's "Get-There-Itis" (RAS)
3. 03:41 AM - Re: Builder's "Get-There-Itis" (David McNeill)
4. 11:29 AM - FW: draw bead (John Jessen)
5. 05:59 PM - Re: F-1010, F-1008R - Cracks in inner reinforce flange (Robert G. Wright)
6. 06:29 PM - Coax (John Hasbrouck)
7. 07:34 PM - Re: Coax (Jeff Dalton)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Builder's "Get-There-Itis" |
A warning to all who don't act on their suspicions.
Here I am, being all proud of my riveting technique, and being just 60
rivets shy of finishing the skins on the HS, when in walks Gene. Now, Gene,
and his son, a CFI who is now flying for a regional carrier, rebuilt a Maule
from the ground up. Gene is a retired airline mechanic, very knowledgeable,
and all around good guy. He's come over before to chat and look things
over, but he's never said boo (yeah, I know) about my work. Until tonight.
Why he came over with his son in the middle of a chilly downpour, around
10:00 pm, I don't know, but it turned out to be providential.
As he is want to do, he strolled over to the work table, took a peek down
into the HS, and I didn't like the look on his face. He moved around and
looked and pushed and prodded, and finally I said, "Gene, out with it.
What's the matter."
It turns out that my skins were not sitting flush against the front spar
flanges in some areas. I'd noticed this, too, and was somewhat concerned,
but for some reason kept going, driven perhaps by the "get there itis" of
riveting and building. I wanted to mount this HS sucker on the wall and
declare another major piece done. Besides, I was really getting into the
swing of things. I had that riveting rhythm going and didn't want to stop.
Progress was being made. Silver clecos were flying off those skins.
Well, I'm now drilling out about 75 rivets and learning a new skill. I'm
also sending away for a chip chaser and screw-type clecos to help pull the
skin dimples into the spar countersinks. When I get these items, and when
Gene gets back from his trip to St. Paul, he'll come over and show me how to
draw the skins into the spar flange and set the rivets, unless I figure it
out before he gets back. Doesn't really look all that hard to do.
If he and his son hadn't made the effort to stop by, I would have had a bevy
of smoking rivets in a hundred flying hours or so, and more than likely had
to either use pop rivets after drilling them out, or build a new HS. The
gap was never more than 1/32nd, but enough to make Gene frown like a sad
pumpkin. At first I was upset and in denial, but he wouldn't let me get
away with it. He said I could begin drilling them out now, or I could wait
until he got back and he'd personally drill them out, but I wasn't to let
this go. It had to be dealt with. Of course I said "no thanks" to his kind
offer and began the task tonight.
I've discovered that drilling out rivets isn't that hard. It has a rhythm
of its own. This will set me back only a day or two. Given the time to
build one of these things, that's not all that much. I'm upset, however,
that I didn't listen to my suspicions and act on them. I knew better. I've
read the literature; I've taken the EAA course. I knew that gap wasn't
right.
Lesson. Don't get sucked into builder's "get there itis." When you see
something that just doesn't look right, stop! Give your EAA advisor a call,
make some tea, sit down, call up and invite over a local A&P for a
brew...just don't keep going and make things worse. It'll cost you more
time in the end, and it may actually be harmful. There's lots to do on this
bird, so whatever it is that's bothering you can sit and wait while you get
a second opinion and work on something else.
Thanks, Gene.
John Jessen
40328 HS (drilling out rivets)
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Builder's "Get-There-Itis" |
Hi,
If you have problems with dimples not fitiing proper into the dimples in the part
below, whether they're spars or ribs oe even other skins try give it a twirl
with a countersink head (by hand!!). Only two or three turns is usually sufficient
it can make quite a difference.
Marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 8:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Builder's "Get-There-Itis"
A warning to all who don't act on their suspicions.
Here I am, being all proud of my riveting technique, and being just 60 rivets
shy of finishing the skins on the HS, when in walks Gene. Now, Gene, and his
son, a CFI who is now flying for a regional carrier, rebuilt a Maule from the
ground up. Gene is a retired airline mechanic, very knowledgeable, and all around
good guy. He's come over before to chat and look things over, but he's
never said boo (yeah, I know) about my work. Until tonight. Why he came over
with his son in the middle of a chilly downpour, around 10:00 pm, I don't know,
but it turned out to be providential.
As he is want to do, he strolled over to the work table, took a peek down into
the HS, and I didn't like the look on his face. He moved around and looked
and pushed and prodded, and finally I said, "Gene, out with it. What's the matter."
It turns out that my skins were not sitting flush against the front spar flanges
in some areas. I'd noticed this, too, and was somewhat concerned, but for
some reason kept going, driven perhaps by the "get there itis" of riveting and
building. I wanted to mount this HS sucker on the wall and declare another
major piece done. Besides, I was really getting into the swing of things. I
had that riveting rhythm going and didn't want to stop. Progress was being made.
Silver clecos were flying off those skins.
Well, I'm now drilling out about 75 rivets and learning a new skill. I'm also
sending away for a chip chaser and screw-type clecos to help pull the skin dimples
into the spar countersinks. When I get these items, and when Gene gets
back from his trip to St. Paul, he'll come over and show me how to draw the skins
into the spar flange and set the rivets, unless I figure it out before he
gets back. Doesn't really look all that hard to do.
If he and his son hadn't made the effort to stop by, I would have had a bevy
of smoking rivets in a hundred flying hours or so, and more than likely had to
either use pop rivets after drilling them out, or build a new HS. The gap was
never more than 1/32nd, but enough to make Gene frown like a sad pumpkin. At
first I was upset and in denial, but he wouldn't let me get away with it. He
said I could begin drilling them out now, or I could wait until he got back
and he'd personally drill them out, but I wasn't to let this go. It had to be
dealt with. Of course I said "no thanks" to his kind offer and began the task
tonight.
I've discovered that drilling out rivets isn't that hard. It has a rhythm of
its own. This will set me back only a day or two. Given the time to build one
of these things, that's not all that much. I'm upset, however, that I didn't
listen to my suspicions and act on them. I knew better. I've read the literature;
I've taken the EAA course. I knew that gap wasn't right.
Lesson. Don't get sucked into builder's "get there itis." When you see something
that just doesn't look right, stop! Give your EAA advisor a call, make
some tea, sit down, call up and invite over a local A&P for a brew...just don't
keep going and make things worse. It'll cost you more time in the end, and
it may actually be harmful. There's lots to do on this bird, so whatever it is
that's bothering you can sit and wait while you get a second opinion and work
on something else.
Thanks, Gene.
John Jessen
40328 HS (drilling out rivets)
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Builder's "Get-There-Itis" |
Have you ever used a "draw bead". When the skins or other parts do not fit together
due to tension or misshapen flanges we use a small piece of baffling material
with a 40 hole or a 30 hole as the rivet requires. Push the draw bead on
the tip of the rivet after the rivet is in place. Then lightly "rivet" the combination,
the gun will set the rivet and push the two pieces together at the same
time. Once set , the draw bead can be removed and the rivet finished to a
proper "shop head".
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2005 12:15 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Builder's "Get-There-Itis"
A warning to all who don't act on their suspicions.
Here I am, being all proud of my riveting technique, and being just 60 rivets
shy of finishing the skins on the HS, when in walks Gene. Now, Gene, and his
son, a CFI who is now flying for a regional carrier, rebuilt a Maule from the
ground up. Gene is a retired airline mechanic, very knowledgeable, and all around
good guy. He's come over before to chat and look things over, but he's
never said boo (yeah, I know) about my work. Until tonight. Why he came over
with his son in the middle of a chilly downpour, around 10:00 pm, I don't know,
but it turned out to be providential.
As he is want to do, he strolled over to the work table, took a peek down into
the HS, and I didn't like the look on his face. He moved around and looked
and pushed and prodded, and finally I said, "Gene, out with it. What's the matter."
It turns out that my skins were not sitting flush against the front spar flanges
in some areas. I'd noticed this, too, and was somewhat concerned, but for
some reason kept going, driven perhaps by the "get there itis" of riveting and
building. I wanted to mount this HS sucker on the wall and declare another
major piece done. Besides, I was really getting into the swing of things. I
had that riveting rhythm going and didn't want to stop. Progress was being made.
Silver clecos were flying off those skins.
Well, I'm now drilling out about 75 rivets and learning a new skill. I'm also
sending away for a chip chaser and screw-type clecos to help pull the skin dimples
into the spar countersinks. When I get these items, and when Gene gets
back from his trip to St. Paul, he'll come over and show me how to draw the skins
into the spar flange and set the rivets, unless I figure it out before he
gets back. Doesn't really look all that hard to do.
If he and his son hadn't made the effort to stop by, I would have had a bevy
of smoking rivets in a hundred flying hours or so, and more than likely had to
either use pop rivets after drilling them out, or build a new HS. The gap was
never more than 1/32nd, but enough to make Gene frown like a sad pumpkin. At
first I was upset and in denial, but he wouldn't let me get away with it. He
said I could begin drilling them out now, or I could wait until he got back
and he'd personally drill them out, but I wasn't to let this go. It had to be
dealt with. Of course I said "no thanks" to his kind offer and began the task
tonight.
I've discovered that drilling out rivets isn't that hard. It has a rhythm of
its own. This will set me back only a day or two. Given the time to build one
of these things, that's not all that much. I'm upset, however, that I didn't
listen to my suspicions and act on them. I knew better. I've read the literature;
I've taken the EAA course. I knew that gap wasn't right.
Lesson. Don't get sucked into builder's "get there itis." When you see something
that just doesn't look right, stop! Give your EAA advisor a call, make
some tea, sit down, call up and invite over a local A&P for a brew...just don't
keep going and make things worse. It'll cost you more time in the end, and
it may actually be harmful. There's lots to do on this bird, so whatever it is
that's bothering you can sit and wait while you get a second opinion and work
on something else.
Thanks, Gene.
John Jessen
40328 HS (drilling out rivets)
do not archive
Message 4
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Here is the picture David sent to me that shows the baffle material used for
his rivet technique.
John Jessen
40328 HS
_____
From: David McNeill [mailto:dlm46007@cox.net]
Subject: draw bead
baffling material is a silicone rubber material commonly used for directing
airflow firewall forward. attached is a picture. I would send it to
matronics but I don't know how well it handles pictures. Note that one
handles only 40 rivets and the other was drilled for both 30 and 40 rivets.
place the bead on the rear of the rivet and then hold the bucking bar
against it. lightly set the rivet, remove the bead and set the rivet
properly. Note the size of the bead by the size of the hole in it.
Message 5
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| Subject: | F-1010, F-1008R - Cracks in inner reinforce flange |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
Any Pictures of the offending sites?
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Subject: RE: RV10-List: F-1010, F-1008R - Cracks in inner reinforce flange
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Tom, post to this list the individual at VAN's telling you that
stop-drilling corrects for using worn dies during the CNC manufacture.
Your kidding yourself if you buy off that the problem ends with a stop
drill.
This exact problem began in the kit #350 range and I can now conclude it
was not resolved by #475.
Quality parts should be a reasonable expectation on the 10. It has been
unfortunately too overlooked. Tom was the source of such direction back
near #350. Even the replacement part was cracked. Go Figure. Builders
in this series should know what to look for and request a correction.
John - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Gesele
Subject: RV10-List: F-1010, F-1008R - Cracks in inner reinforce flange
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tom Gesele <tgesele@optonline.net>
While cleaning up the tailcone bulkheads, noticed a couple of small
cracks
in the F-1010 & F-1008R bulkheads in the inner stiffener flange that
appear
to have been caused while the parts were being pressed. The cracks are
very
small, probably only a few 1000ths thick and < 1/4" long so you really
need
to look closely, and are located in the top radius of the bulkheads.
I've kicked around replacing them, spoke to Vans who said not to worry
but
stop-drill the cracks if it gives me piece of mind. Probably will stop
drill
and put doubler on web (gross overkill but why not) but still undecided.
My question is has anyone else noticed this? If this is a common
occurrence,
then replacing the bulkhead won't accomplish anything and my decision is
easy.
Thanks,
Tom Gesele #40473 - Tailcone.
Message 6
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
What is the advantage of RG400 over RG58 coax? Quite a cost difference. Is
there a enough difference in quality that would justify the cost of RG400/U?
Thanks
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Wings
Message 7
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jeff Dalton" <jdalton77@comcast.net>
short answer .... the RG58 is the cheapest and least conductive of available
Coax (that's why RG-6 is recommended for long runs of cable or sattelite TV
cable instead of RG-58).
The higher quality cable will resist interference and have less signal
degredation than the RG58.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Coax
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
>
> What is the advantage of RG400 over RG58 coax? Quite a cost difference.
> Is there a enough difference in quality that would justify the cost of
> RG400/U? Thanks
>
> John Hasbrouck
> #40264
> Wings
>
>
>
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