Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:10 AM - 2005 Matronics Email List Fund Raiser [Please Read]... (Matt Dralle)
2. 03:28 AM - Re: Placards/Nameplate (Tim Lewis)
3. 03:34 AM - Re: Placards/Nameplate (Russell Daves)
4. 04:33 AM - Frappr Map for the list (Mani Ravee)
5. 05:01 AM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (James Hein)
6. 05:24 AM - Re: Placards/Nameplate (linn walters)
7. 05:36 AM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
8. 05:36 AM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
9. 05:44 AM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (bob.kaufmann)
10. 05:52 AM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (Mani Ravee)
11. 05:58 AM - Re: Tim's comments about painting (bob.kaufmann)
12. 06:03 AM - Re: TruTrak AP (Jesse Saint)
13. 06:10 AM - Re: Placards/Nameplate (Jesse Saint)
14. 07:07 AM - Re: Placards/Nameplate (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
15. 08:55 AM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (bruce breckenridge)
16. 09:36 AM - Re: Re: Frappr Map for the list (Mani Ravee)
17. 10:14 AM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (Jesse Saint)
18. 10:29 AM - Re: Re: Frappr Map for the list (Tim Olson)
19. 10:41 AM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (John Jessen)
20. 10:54 AM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (Randy DeBauw)
21. 11:57 AM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (Mark & Kelly)
22. 11:59 AM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (James Ochs)
23. 12:06 PM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (Kelly McMullen)
24. 12:09 PM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (Kelly McMullen)
25. 12:19 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (John Jessen)
26. 12:35 PM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (James Ball)
27. 12:41 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (Jeff Carpenter)
28. 12:45 PM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (Kelly McMullen)
29. 01:05 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (John Cram)
30. 01:09 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
31. 01:12 PM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (Randy DeBauw [mailto)
32. 01:20 PM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (James Ball)
33. 01:31 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (Tim Olson)
34. 01:42 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
35. 02:17 PM - For the new starters (Mark Drury)
36. 02:46 PM - Re: For the new starters (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com)
37. 02:56 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (John Cram)
38. 02:56 PM - Re: Placards/Nameplate (Jim Combs)
39. 03:19 PM - Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection (Jesse Saint)
40. 03:38 PM - Re: For the new starters (Dave Lammers)
41. 03:55 PM - Re: For the new starters (Rick)
42. 05:23 PM - Gear leg Socket - 7.9mm Drill (McGANN, Ron)
43. 05:34 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (James Hein)
44. 06:22 PM - Lycoming O 540 starter (ddddsp1@juno.com)
45. 08:36 PM - Re: Engine Mount Clearance Update (DejaVu)
46. 10:06 PM - Re: Gear leg Socket - 7.9mm Drill (Tim Olson)
47. 11:53 PM - Re: Frappr Map for the list (Henkjan van der Zouw)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 2005 Matronics Email List Fund Raiser [Please Read]... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Matronics Email Listers,
Each year during the month of November, I hold a PBS-like fund raiser
to support the Email Lists sponsored here. As you have probably
noticed, there is no commercial advertising on any of the
List-related web pages or in any of the email distributions. The
Matronics Lists are supported completely though the generous
Contributions of its members.
Making a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade
of the Matronics Aviation Lists is completely voluntary, but I
encourage you to consider making a donation that is equal to the
value and entertainment you have received from these Lists over the past year.
And thanks to a number of extremely generous members/businessmen
found on the Lists, there are some truly awesome Free Gifts to be had
during this year's List Fund Raiser! Andy Gold of the The Builder's
Bookstore, Paul Besing of Aeroware Enterprises, and Jon Croke of
Homebuilt HELP have all contributed products from their respective
catalogs in support of this year's Fund Raiser! Thank you!
Andy, Paul, and Jon are great guys and I really appreciate their
support for the Lists. I encourage each List member to visit their
respective web sites for a closer look at each of their great product
lines. Its guys like these that make this such a great hobby/sport
to be a part of! I have included links to each of their web sites below.
And just like PBS, I will be making pretty regular reminder requests
throughout the month of November. I ask for your kind consideration
and understanding during this time and realize that this Fund Raiser
is the *only* source of financing and support I have for these
Lists. I am continually upgrading and improving the hardware and
systems required in support of the Lists. This year saw a
substantial upgrade to all of the computer room infrastructure
including gigabit networking, dedicated air conditioning, an
equipment rack, and high-performance system chassis upgrades. Yes,
it was expensive, but I feel the Lists are worth it! Hopefully you do too!
All of these upgrades are what add up to the High-Performance,
Highly-Available system that everyone has come to expect of the Email
Lists at Matronics.
Please make a Contribution today to support these upgrades and the
continued operation of the Matronics Email Lists. The Contribution
web site is fast, easy, and secure to use. You can even select a
sweet Free Gift with a qualifying Contribution amount. The
Contribution Site can be found here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you for your generous support!!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Sponsors of this Year's Matronics List Fund Raiser
Andy Gold - The Builder's Bookstore - http://www.buildersbooks.com
Paul Besing - Aeroware Enterprises - http://www.kitlog.com
Jon Croke - Homebuilt HELP - http://www.homebuilthelp.com
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Placards/Nameplate |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
Per FAR 45.13 "Identification data" all that is required on the
(fireproof) data plate is (1) Builder's name, (2) Model designation, and
(3) Builder's serial number.
For my RV-6A I got one of those stainless steel data plates from ACS,
cut it down in size, and used the back side. Engravers charge by the
letter, so I included only the information actually required by
regulation. I didn't include the gross weight number (or other
non-required numbers) because the FAA could conceivably use them against
the operator in an enforcement matter.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 790 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I was thinking that on my next order from ACS, I'd get whatever logbooks
> and placards I'll need. I see on this page of ACS's catalog they have a
> nameplate, and stainless steel ID tag on the top of the page.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/catalog/Cat06348.pdf
>
> I need both of these, right? I've seen the black on the side under
> the HS on -10's. Where would the nameplate go?
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Placards/Nameplate |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
Tim:
A better option to the aircraft spruce data plate is:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1130844505-434-267&browse=personal&product=vaf
Item number VAF EXPER DATA PLATE
Why do with a generic data plate when you can go with a Vans Air Force Date
Plate instead.
Loved your painting pictures and can't wait to see both you and your 10 at
OSK next year. Hopefully my 10 will be finished and present as well.
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Placards/Nameplate
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I was thinking that on my next order from ACS, I'd get whatever logbooks
> and placards I'll need. I see on this page of ACS's catalog they have a
> nameplate, and stainless steel ID tag on the top of the page.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/catalog/Cat06348.pdf
>
> I need both of these, right? I've seen the black on the side under
> the HS on -10's. Where would the nameplate go?
>
> Tim
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it, both
builders and finished ones.
http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
Mani
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Placards/Nameplate |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I was thinking that on my next order from ACS, I'd get whatever logbooks
> and placards I'll need. I see on this page of ACS's catalog they have a
> nameplate, and stainless steel ID tag on the top of the page.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/catalog/Cat06348.pdf
>
> I need both of these, right?
Hmmm. 'Need' isn't a good word here. They both perform different
functions. The ID tag needs to go on the outside, aft of any doors, and
be readable from someone on the ground. Better check that as it's from
memory. Most folks hide it under the horizontal stab .... because it's
ugly. But required. The nameplate carries the same identification, but
it also carries the word 'experimental' on it. That word must be
visible to someone entering the cockpit. Years ago, I had the
unfortunate bad timing of having an accident at Sun-n-Fun. It was an
educational experience. I didn't have the 2" 'experimental' banner on
the inside of my Pitts, but the NTSB and FAA guys that descended on me
like locusts accepted the 'experimental' on the nameplate mounted on the
turtledeck hatch. They didn't say squat about the missing ID tag!
> I've seen the black on the side under the HS on -10's. Where would
> the nameplate go?
Anywhere you want to put it. I don't think there's any requirement to
have one, but I could be wrong ..... and someone will surely educate me
:-) . Most aircraft I've seen mount it so it can be read from outside
the cockpit ..... it's a proud information point ..... who built it and
when ..... for everyone to see.
Linn
do not archive
>
>
> Tim
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
Very good datapoint Jim!
Michael Sausen
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein
Vapor lock is NOT just a startup problem.
The following is an NTSB report from a crash near where my parents live. The pilot
and passengers were not hurt, and although it sounds like he did everything
right vapor lock still bit him.
-Jim 40384
NTSB Number: CHI04CA210
Narrative Type: NTSB FINAL NARRATIVE (6120.4)=09
The airplane was destroyed during a post-impact ground fire, following a loss of
engine power and subsequent forced landing. The pilot reported he had landed
and shut down the engine for a few minutes prior to loading his two passengers
for a local flight. The pilot stated the airplane contained 35 gallons of fuel
prior to the accident flight. The pilot reported the engine "shuddered" during
takeoff roll and he aborted the takeoff. The pilot stated he then performed
an engine run-up check and the engine "felt fine." The airplane experienced
a loss of engine power while on the second takeoff attempt. The pilot stated he
maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby road and it impacted a road sign
prior to coming to stop. An on-ground fire engulfed the airplane shortly thereafter.
There were no anomalies noted with the engine during a post-accident operational
test. The outside temperature at the time of the accident was approximately
28 degrees Celsius. A condition known as vapor lock can occur when engine
heats the fuel lines and the contained fuel becomes a vapor. This tendency
is increased if the fuel in the tank is warm, commonly as a result of high atmospheric
temperatures. The fuel vapor can result in partial or complete interruption
of fuel flow to the engine.
=09
Narrative Type: NTSB PRELIMINARY NARRATIVE (6120.19)=09
On July 31, 2004, at 1519 eastern daylight time, a Piper PA-28RT-201T, N77782,
piloted by a private pilot, was destroyed during a post-impact ground fire following
a loss of engine power and subsequent forced landing near Plymouth, Michigan.
The airplane experienced the loss of engine power while on initial climb
from runway 18 (2,556 feet by 75 feet, dry asphalt) at the Canton-Plymouth-Mettetal
Airport (1DS). Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time
of the accident. The personal flight was operating under the provisions of 14
CFR Part 91 without a flight plan. The pilot and one passenger were not injured.
One passenger reported minor injuries. The local area flight was originating
at the time of the accident.
The pilot reported he had landed at 1500 and shut down the engine for a few minutes
prior to loading his two passengers for a local flight. The pilot stated
the airplane contained 35 gallons of 100 low-lead aviation fuel prior to the accident
flight.
The pilot reported the engine "shuddered" during takeoff roll and he aborted the
takeoff. The pilot stated he then performed an engine run-up check and the engine
"felt fine." The pilot reported he taxied onto runway 18 and set the engine
power to 2,500 rpm and 38 inches of manifold pressure. The pilot stated the
airplane became airborne and experienced a loss of engine power while on initial
climb.
The pilot reported he switched fuel tanks, but there was no increase in engine
power. The pilot stated the airplane descended under some power lines as he maneuvered
the airplane to land on a nearby road. The pilot reported the airplane
impacted a road sign prior to coming to stop and an on-ground fire engulfed
the airplane shortly thereafter.
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspectors performed the on-site investigation.
The engine was removed from the accident airplane and mounted on a compatible
airframe for an operational engine test. The engine started and idled without
anomalies. The engine was then accelerated to 2,200 rpm which yielded approximately
80 lbs of oil pressure. The engine was then shut-off using the mixture
idle cut-off. There were no anomalies noted with the engine during the operational
test.
The closest weather reporting station to the accident site was located at the Willow
Run Airport (YIP), Detroit, Michigan, about 7.4 nautical miles (nm) southeast
of the accident site. The airport is equipped with an Automated Surface
Observing System (ASOS). The following weather conditions were reported prior
to and at the time of the accident:
At 1453 edt: Wind 230 degrees at 11 knots, visibility unrestricted at 10 statute
miles (sm), few clouds at 5,000 feet above ground level (agl), temperature 28
degrees Celsius, dew point -01 degrees Celsius, altimeter setting 29.90 inches-of-mercury.
According to FAA publication AC 65-12A, fuel normally remains in a liquid state
until it is discharged into the air stream and changes into a vapor. Under certain
conditions the fuel may vaporize in the lines, pumps, or other fuel components.
The vapor pockets formed by the premature vaporization can restrict the
fuel flow through units that were designed to handle liquids rather than gases.
The resulting partial or complete interruption of the fuel flow is called
vapor lock.
Transfer of heat from the engine tends to cause vaporization of fuel in the lines
and the pump. This tendency is increased if the fuel in the tank is warm, commonly
as a result of high atmospheric temperatures. Vapor lock can become serious
enough to block the fuel flow completely and stop the engine. Even small
amounts of vapor in the inlet line can restrict the fuel flow to the engine driven
pump and ultimately reduce its output pressure.
=09
Narrative Type: NTSB PROBABLE CAUSE NARRATIVE=09
The loss of engine power at a low altitude due to a fuel flow restriction caused
by vapor lock. Factors to the accident included the high atmospheric temperature
and the road sign that the airplane impacted during the forced landing.=09
Jesse Saint wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org> <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
=09
I am a little confused as well. We have a Bendix injection system. We
haven't put a return line in. We do have an overflow line that just runs
out the back of the cowling. The system can't be pumping much more fuel
that it is using or our fuel flows would be higher. When burning 6.5-7gph
@
17,500, I can't imagine that we are actually burning less than that and
wasting a significant amount. Is the main issue here vapor lock? Would
this system not work the same way whether you have a return line or an
overflow drain line? Running the boost pump is going to do the same thing
any, right. I am not much of an engine guy, so please let me know where
I
am wrong. Also, if vapor lock mainly a startup issue, or are we needing
to
worry about this while we are flying? We certainly haven't had any issues
with the system during our 150 hours in the air, but if it is an accident
waiting to happen, it doesn't matter how many hours we have flown the wrong
way, we want to fix it.
=09
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
=09
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:19 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
=09
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com> <mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
=09
It depends on the brand fuel injection used. TCM and Bendix do not use
a
common rail, they send fuel to a distributor that sends it to individual
injectors. Bendix regulates the fuel flow at the fuel servo, and only fuel
needed goes to the distributor and injectors. Fuel pumps are self
limiting, returning excess pressure to their low pressure side. TCM
(Continental) is different, and does use a return loop. I don't know what
aftermarket systems use.
There isn't much in common between aircraft injection systems and auto
systems. Aircraft still use continuous injection, most cars use individual
timed injection for better emissions control. Aircraft distributors are
pressure controled, so when pressure drops below a preset minimum, no fuel
goes to the injectors, allowing idle cutoff.
=09
Lloyd, Daniel R. said:
It does, I did not realize there is a valve that is opened and
closed.
That makes more sense. I have not flown behind an IO engine, just
standard. Now maybe you can explain to me, is it like in an auto,
where
there is allot more fuel going to the rail then is used, causing
a
return line to be necessary? or does it only pump what is required/
used? I thought fuel injection meant a looped system, where only
the
portion of fuel that went to the injectors was used and the rest
sent
back to the tank?
=09
_____
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=09
Message 8
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
Pretty cool Mani.
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it, both builders
and finished ones.
http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
Mani
Message 9
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
Cool map, I like it.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it, both
builders and finished ones.
http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
Mani
Message 10
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Did not know, but it could be from anywhere in the world. Google, you gotta
love it.
Mani Ravee
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it, both
builders and finished ones.
http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
Mani
Message 11
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| Subject: | Tim's comments about painting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
Gosh, been a long time sicne I seen tpynig like that. Did you get posssseed
over Hllawoeen Rick.
Bob K
But James no longer has to put his patio furniture in the pool at every
hurricane. Wonder what's happening in his life?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Tim's comments about painting
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Wow....somebody remembered ol' Jimmy Mac...(James McClow) I miss him and his
unbridled enthusiasm as well....I would like to think he reads some of this
sometime...for old time sake....hE wuz a gOOD JoE.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Do not archive
Message 12
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
John,
We put the bracket, servo and wiring in all after the wing was finished (we
used the wiring harness that Stein makes for TruTrak). In fact, unless you
are going to make a disconnect at the wing root, then you don't want the
wiring in yet. I wouldn't hurt to put the bracket or even the servo in now,
but if you still haven't made some decisions like what you are doing for
aileron trim and what AP you are using, you might just want to wait until
you are ordering the instruments and put the whole thing in then. It may be
a little more work, but it won't be hard. It actually may end up being
cheaper to buy the whole AP kit at once, and you never know what options may
be on the market when you get to that point.
As far as which AP to use, it is my understanding that the Digiflight II VSG
is the most popular AP on the experimental market.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
Subject: RV10-List: TruTrak AP
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
Is it possible to purchase the mounting bracket for the roll servo seperate
from the AP? I've asked TruTrak directly but thought I might get a faster
response here. I'm undecided as to which of their two servo APs to use but
as I understand it they all use the same bracket, depending on which side
you place the servo of course. Would like to close the wings up and move on
without committing to avionics just yet.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 13
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| Subject: | Placards/Nameplate |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Spruce has an anodized aluminum data plate for experimentals, but that
doesn't seem to me to meet the fire-resistant need. When I called Spruce
and ordered a stainless steel data plate with my information on it, they
sent me the aluminum one. We put it on and when the inspector asked if it
was steel, I just had to tell him that I ordered SS. He was happy with
that, although I don't think is was SS. Why would Spruce sell one that is
made of aluminum when you need steel? Anyway, just beware of this. It does
look really good and the etching is great, but I wish it was SS.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Placards/Nameplate
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I was thinking that on my next order from ACS, I'd get whatever logbooks
and placards I'll need. I see on this page of ACS's catalog they have a
nameplate, and stainless steel ID tag on the top of the page.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/catalog/Cat06348.pdf
I need both of these, right? I've seen the black on the side under
the HS on -10's. Where would the nameplate go?
Tim
Message 14
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SPAM: If the email is for spam, please report to abuse@dnsExit.com
-By mail relay service at:
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Accounts will be suspended immediately if found spamming.
| Subject: | Placards/Nameplate |
Tim,
Here is a checklist that a local DAR uses as published by EAA Chapter 670. Might
come in handy.
http://www.aerovents.com/eaa670/eaabldrcklst.htm
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: RV10-List: Placards/Nameplate
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I was thinking that on my next order from ACS, I'd get whatever logbooks and placards
I'll need. I see on this page of ACS's catalog they have a nameplate,
and stainless steel ID tag on the top of the page.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/catalog/Cat06348.pdf
I need both of these, right? I've seen the black on the side under the HS on -10's.
Where would the nameplate go?
Tim
Message 15
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| Subject: | RE: Frappr Map for the list |
Mani;
Excellent find! Can't believe how fast it's building!
Bruce
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Frappr Map for the list |
Tim, maybe you can put a link in your site. I would say it will look awful crowded
with >400 flags on it.
Mani
bruce breckenridge <bbreckenridge@gmail.com> wrote:
Mani;
Excellent find! Can't believe how fast it's building!
Bruce
Message 17
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
That is building fast. I think we want as many people on there as possible.
I agree that it will be difficult to see all of them on the big map, but you
can use the zoom controls on the left side of the map to zoom in on an area.
This will allow anybody to see how many builders there are along their route
of travel or at their destination when traveling, which may promote some
more face to face interaction in the group. It would be great if there
could be some contact information too, but that can be found other places, I
guess.
Google does it again.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it, both
builders and finished ones.
http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
Mani
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I did that already this a.m....I'll try to make it more prominent.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mani Ravee wrote:
> Tim, maybe you can put a link in your site. I would say it will look
> awful crowded with >400 flags on it.
> Mani
>
> */bruce breckenridge <bbreckenridge@gmail.com>/* wrote:
>
> Mani;
>
> Excellent find! Can't believe how fast it's building!
>
> Bruce
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Mani,
I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the last one and
discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce Breckenridge's photo?
That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I know for a
fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
John Jessen
328 HS and Elevators
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it, both
builders and finished ones.
http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
Mani
Message 20
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| Subject: | Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
Well let me tell you about one instance of my fuel system starting to
vapor lock. It was a hot day this summer, about 96 deg. I was climbing
out at about 1000 fpm from 150ft airport elev. to 9000ft. when I was
passing through 5000ft I noticed the fuel pressure dropping from its
normal 19 to 21 psi to around 17.5. I turned on the fuel pump and the
pressure went to 28 psi. I lowered the nose and left the fuel pump on
for 5 min or so. Lowering the nose did the trick. Turned the fuel pump
off and the pressures were fine. I have a 1" scat tube running to the
fuel pump to cool it. Remember that with the heater controls turned off
that the unused heated air is dumped right around the fuel pump. I have
had no issues starting the engine when hot - 100 plus deg. The trick is
to leave the mix full lean and start cranking. After 5 revs or so if it
isn't running already start bleeding in some fuel with the mix. Starts
every time. 102 hours and counting. I am working on my IFR ticket for
the next few months. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
Vapor lock is NOT just a startup problem.
The following is an NTSB report from a crash near where my parents live.
The pilot and passengers were not hurt, and although it sounds like he
did everything right vapor lock still bit him.
-Jim 40384
NTSB Number: CHI04CA210
Narrative Type: NTSB FINAL NARRATIVE (6120.4)
The airplane was destroyed during a post-impact ground fire, following a
loss of engine power and subsequent forced landing. The pilot reported
he had landed and shut down the engine for a few minutes prior to
loading his two passengers for a local flight. The pilot stated the
airplane contained 35 gallons of fuel prior to the accident flight. The
pilot reported the engine "shuddered" during takeoff roll and he aborted
the takeoff. The pilot stated he then performed an engine run-up check
and the engine "felt fine." The airplane experienced a loss of engine
power while on the second takeoff attempt. The pilot stated he
maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby road and it impacted a road
sign prior to coming to stop. An on-ground fire engulfed the airplane
shortly thereafter. There were no anomalies noted with the engine during
a post-accident operational test. The outside temperature at the time of
the accident was approximately 28 degrees Celsius. A condition known as
vapor lock can occur when engine heats the fuel lines and the contained
fuel becomes a vapor. This tendency is increased if the fuel in the tank
is warm, commonly as a result of high atmospheric temperatures. The fuel
vapor can result in partial or complete interruption of fuel flow to the
engine.
Narrative Type: NTSB PRELIMINARY NARRATIVE (6120.19)
On July 31, 2004, at 1519 eastern daylight time, a Piper PA-28RT-201T,
N77782, piloted by a private pilot, was destroyed during a post-impact
ground fire following a loss of engine power and subsequent forced
landing near Plymouth, Michigan. The airplane experienced the loss of
engine power while on initial climb from runway 18 (2,556 feet by 75
feet, dry asphalt) at the Canton-Plymouth-Mettetal Airport (1DS). Visual
meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The
personal flight was operating under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91
without a flight plan. The pilot and one passenger were not injured. One
passenger reported minor injuries. The local area flight was originating
at the time of the accident.
The pilot reported he had landed at 1500 and shut down the engine for a
few minutes prior to loading his two passengers for a local flight. The
pilot stated the airplane contained 35 gallons of 100 low-lead aviation
fuel prior to the accident flight.
The pilot reported the engine "shuddered" during takeoff roll and he
aborted the takeoff. The pilot stated he then performed an engine run-up
check and the engine "felt fine." The pilot reported he taxied onto
runway 18 and set the engine power to 2,500 rpm and 38 inches of
manifold pressure. The pilot stated the airplane became airborne and
experienced a loss of engine power while on initial climb.
The pilot reported he switched fuel tanks, but there was no increase in
engine power. The pilot stated the airplane descended under some power
lines as he maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby road. The pilot
reported the airplane impacted a road sign prior to coming to stop and
an on-ground fire engulfed the airplane shortly thereafter.
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspectors performed the on-site
investigation. The engine was removed from the accident airplane and
mounted on a compatible airframe for an operational engine test. The
engine started and idled without anomalies. The engine was then
accelerated to 2,200 rpm which yielded approximately 80 lbs of oil
pressure. The engine was then shut-off using the mixture idle cut-off.
There were no anomalies noted with the engine during the operational
test.
The closest weather reporting station to the accident site was located
at the Willow Run Airport (YIP), Detroit, Michigan, about 7.4 nautical
miles (nm) southeast of the accident site. The airport is equipped with
an Automated Surface Observing System (ASOS). The following weather
conditions were reported prior to and at the time of the accident:
At 1453 edt: Wind 230 degrees at 11 knots, visibility unrestricted at 10
statute miles (sm), few clouds at 5,000 feet above ground level (agl),
temperature 28 degrees Celsius, dew point -01 degrees Celsius, altimeter
setting 29.90 inches-of-mercury.
According to FAA publication AC 65-12A, fuel normally remains in a
liquid state until it is discharged into the air stream and changes into
a vapor. Under certain conditions the fuel may vaporize in the lines,
pumps, or other fuel components. The vapor pockets formed by the
premature vaporization can restrict the fuel flow through units that
were designed to handle liquids rather than gases. The resulting partial
or complete interruption of the fuel flow is called vapor lock.
Transfer of heat from the engine tends to cause vaporization of fuel in
the lines and the pump. This tendency is increased if the fuel in the
tank is warm, commonly as a result of high atmospheric temperatures.
Vapor lock can become serious enough to block the fuel flow completely
and stop the engine. Even small amounts of vapor in the inlet line can
restrict the fuel flow to the engine driven pump and ultimately reduce
its output pressure.
Narrative Type: NTSB PROBABLE CAUSE NARRATIVE
The loss of engine power at a low altitude due to a fuel flow
restriction caused by vapor lock. Factors to the accident included the
high atmospheric temperature and the road sign that the airplane
impacted during the forced landing.
Jesse Saint wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
<mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
I am a little confused as well. We have a Bendix injection system. We
haven't put a return line in. We do have an overflow line that just
runs
out the back of the cowling. The system can't be pumping much more fuel
that it is using or our fuel flows would be higher. When burning
6.5-7gph @
17,500, I can't imagine that we are actually burning less than that and
wasting a significant amount. Is the main issue here vapor lock? Would
this system not work the same way whether you have a return line or an
overflow drain line? Running the boost pump is going to do the same
thing
any, right. I am not much of an engine guy, so please let me know where
I
am wrong. Also, if vapor lock mainly a startup issue, or are we needing
to
worry about this while we are flying? We certainly haven't had any
issues
with the system during our 150 hours in the air, but if it is an
accident
waiting to happen, it doesn't matter how many hours we have flown the
wrong
way, we want to fix it.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
<mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
It depends on the brand fuel injection used. TCM and Bendix do not use a
common rail, they send fuel to a distributor that sends it to individual
injectors. Bendix regulates the fuel flow at the fuel servo, and only
fuel
needed goes to the distributor and injectors. Fuel pumps are self
limiting, returning excess pressure to their low pressure side. TCM
(Continental) is different, and does use a return loop. I don't know
what
aftermarket systems use.
There isn't much in common between aircraft injection systems and auto
systems. Aircraft still use continuous injection, most cars use
individual
timed injection for better emissions control. Aircraft distributors are
pressure controled, so when pressure drops below a preset minimum, no
fuel
goes to the injectors, allowing idle cutoff.
Lloyd, Daniel R. said:
It does, I did not realize there is a valve that is opened and
closed.
That makes more sense. I have not flown behind an IO engine,
just
standard. Now maybe you can explain to me, is it like in an
auto, where
there is allot more fuel going to the rail then is used, causing
a
return line to be necessary? or does it only pump what is
required/
used? I thought fuel injection meant a looped system, where only
the
portion of fuel that went to the injectors was used and the rest
sent
back to the tank?
_____
to
and
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
I was in a Cirrus SR22 for a while here in Dallas, and anytime the temp gets above
95 degrees, SOP was to leave the fuel pump on throughout the climb and also
on descent. I had a couple of attention getting episodes doing IFR practice
approaches with an instructor that said that it was dangerous to leave the fuel
pump on continuously, that were resolved when the fuel pump was turned on.
One one occassion, the engine went silent doing a procedure turn, but came back
to life when the fuel pump was switched on. Do any of you see any problem
with just leaving the pump on when it's hot in the 10?
Thanks,
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: Randy DeBauw
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
Well let me tell you about one instance of my fuel system starting to vapor lock.
It was a hot day this summer, about 96 deg. I was climbing out at about 1000
fpm from 150ft airport elev. to 9000ft. when I was passing through 5000ft
I noticed the fuel pressure dropping from its normal 19 to 21 psi to around 17.5.
I turned on the fuel pump and the pressure went to 28 psi. I lowered the
nose and left the fuel pump on for 5 min or so. Lowering the nose did the trick.
Turned the fuel pump off and the pressures were fine. I have a 1" scat tube
running to the fuel pump to cool it. Remember that with the heater controls
turned off that the unused heated air is dumped right around the fuel pump.
I have had no issues starting the engine when hot - 100 plus deg. The trick is
to leave the mix full lean and start cranking. After 5 revs or so if it isn't
running already start bleeding in some fuel with the mix. Starts every time.
102 hours and counting. I am working on my IFR ticket for the next few months.
Randy
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 5:01 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
Vapor lock is NOT just a startup problem.
The following is an NTSB report from a crash near where my parents live. The
pilot and passengers were not hurt, and although it sounds like he did everything
right vapor lock still bit him.
-Jim 40384
NTSB Number: CHI04CA210
Narrative Type: NTSB FINAL NARRATIVE (6120.4)
The airplane was destroyed during a post-impact ground fire, following
a loss of engine power and subsequent forced landing. The pilot reported he had
landed and shut down the engine for a few minutes prior to loading his two passengers
for a local flight. The pilot stated the airplane contained 35 gallons
of fuel prior to the accident flight. The pilot reported the engine "shuddered"
during takeoff roll and he aborted the takeoff. The pilot stated he then
performed an engine run-up check and the engine "felt fine." The airplane experienced
a loss of engine power while on the second takeoff attempt. The pilot
stated he maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby road and it impacted a road
sign prior to coming to stop. An on-ground fire engulfed the airplane shortly
thereafter. There were no anomalies noted with the engine during a post-accident
operational test. The outside temperature at the time of the accident was
approximately 28 degrees Celsius. A condition known as vapor lock can occur
when engine heats the fuel lines and the contained fuel becomes a vapor. This
tendency is increased if the fuel in the tank is warm, commonly as a result of
high atmospheric temperatures. The fuel vapor can result in partial or complete
interruption of fuel flow to the engine.
Narrative Type: NTSB PRELIMINARY NARRATIVE (6120.19)
On July 31, 2004, at 1519 eastern daylight time, a Piper PA-28RT-201T,
N77782, piloted by a private pilot, was destroyed during a post-impact ground
fire following a loss of engine power and subsequent forced landing near Plymouth,
Michigan. The airplane experienced the loss of engine power while on initial
climb from runway 18 (2,556 feet by 75 feet, dry asphalt) at the Canton-Plymouth-Mettetal
Airport (1DS). Visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the
time of the accident. The personal flight was operating under the provisions
of 14 CFR Part 91 without a flight plan. The pilot and one passenger were not
injured. One passenger reported minor injuries. The local area flight was originating
at the time of the accident.
The pilot reported he had landed at 1500 and shut down the engine for a
few minutes prior to loading his two passengers for a local flight. The pilot
stated the airplane contained 35 gallons of 100 low-lead aviation fuel prior
to the accident flight.
The pilot reported the engine "shuddered" during takeoff roll and he aborted
the takeoff. The pilot stated he then performed an engine run-up check and
the engine "felt fine." The pilot reported he taxied onto runway 18 and set
the engine power to 2,500 rpm and 38 inches of manifold pressure. The pilot stated
the airplane became airborne and experienced a loss of engine power while
on initial climb.
The pilot reported he switched fuel tanks, but there was no increase in
engine power. The pilot stated the airplane descended under some power lines
as he maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby road. The pilot reported the
airplane impacted a road sign prior to coming to stop and an on-ground fire engulfed
the airplane shortly thereafter.
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspectors performed the on-site
investigation. The engine was removed from the accident airplane and mounted on
a compatible airframe for an operational engine test. The engine started and
idled without anomalies. The engine was then accelerated to 2,200 rpm which yielded
approximately 80 lbs of oil pressure. The engine was then shut-off using
the mixture idle cut-off. There were no anomalies noted with the engine during
the operational test.
The closest weather reporting station to the accident site was located
at the Willow Run Airport (YIP), Detroit, Michigan, about 7.4 nautical miles (nm)
southeast of the accident site. The airport is equipped with an Automated
Surface Observing System (ASOS). The following weather conditions were reported
prior to and at the time of the accident:
At 1453 edt: Wind 230 degrees at 11 knots, visibility unrestricted at 10
statute miles (sm), few clouds at 5,000 feet above ground level (agl), temperature
28 degrees Celsius, dew point -01 degrees Celsius, altimeter setting 29.90
inches-of-mercury.
According to FAA publication AC 65-12A, fuel normally remains in a liquid
state until it is discharged into the air stream and changes into a vapor.
Under certain conditions the fuel may vaporize in the lines, pumps, or other fuel
components. The vapor pockets formed by the premature vaporization can restrict
the fuel flow through units that were designed to handle liquids rather
than gases. The resulting partial or complete interruption of the fuel flow is
called vapor lock.
Transfer of heat from the engine tends to cause vaporization of fuel in
the lines and the pump. This tendency is increased if the fuel in the tank is
warm, commonly as a result of high atmospheric temperatures. Vapor lock can become
serious enough to block the fuel flow completely and stop the engine. Even
small amounts of vapor in the inlet line can restrict the fuel flow to the
engine driven pump and ultimately reduce its output pressure.
Narrative Type: NTSB PROBABLE CAUSE NARRATIVE
The loss of engine power at a low altitude due to a fuel flow restriction
caused by vapor lock. Factors to the accident included the high atmospheric
temperature and the road sign that the airplane impacted during the forced landing.
Jesse Saint wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org> I am a little confused as well. We have a Bendix injection system. Wehaven't put a return line in. We do have an overflow line that just runsout the back of the cowling. The system can't be pumping much more fuelthat it is using or our fuel flows would be higher. When burning 6.5-7gph @17,500, I can't imagine that we are actually burning less than that andwasting a significant amount. Is the main issue here vapor lock? Wouldthis system not work the same way whether you have a return line or anoverflow drain line? Running the boost pump is going to do the same thingany, right. I am not much of an engine guy, so please let me know where Iam wrong. Also, if vapor lock mainly a startup issue, or are we needing toworry about this while we are flying? We certainly haven't had any issueswith the system during our 150 hours in the air, but if it is an accidentwaiting to happen, it doesn't matter how many hours we have flown the wrongway, we want to fix it. Jesse SaintI-TEC, Inc.jesse@itecusa.orgwww.itecusa.orgW: 352-465-4545C: 352-427-0285F: 815-377-3694 -----Original Message-----From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullenSent: Monday, October 31, 2005 11:19 AMTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com> It depends on the brand fuel injection used. TCM and Bendix do not use acommon rail, they send fuel to a distributor that sends it to individualinjectors. Bendix regulates the fuel flow at the fuel servo, and only fuelneeded goes to the distributor and injectors. Fuel pumps are selflimiting, returning excess pressure to their low pressure side. TCM(Continental) is different, and does use a return loop. I don't know whataftermarket systems use.There isn't much in common between aircraft injection systems and autosystems. Aircraft still use continuous injection, most cars use individualtimed injection for better emissions control. Aircraft distributors arepressure controled, so when pressure drops below a preset minimum, no fuelgoes to the injectors, allowing idle cutoff. Lloyd, Daniel R. said: It does, I did not realize there is a valve that is opened and closed.That makes more sense. I have not flown behind an IO engine, juststandard. Now maybe you can explain to me, is it like in an auto, wherethere is allot more fuel going to the rail then is used, causing areturn line to be necessary? or does it only pump what is required/used? I thought fuel injection meant a looped system, where only theportion of fuel that went to the injectors was used and the rest sentback to the tank? _____
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>Mani,
>
>I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the last one and
>discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce Breckenridge's photo?
>That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I know for a
>fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
>
>Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
>
>John Jessen
> 328 HS and Elevators
>
>do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it, both
>builders and finished ones.
>http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
>
>
>Mani
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAlepyTF8JxEGejHj3Vvc4SWKGAAAQAAAAeTsB7lfPo06lG/lap5iObAEAAAAA@itecusa.org>
<43676708.3080406@arrl.net>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
Unless you are planning on the Continental IO360 engine you are talking
apples to oranges. The aircraft in question was a Continental powered,
turbocharged engine. It uses a Continental fuel injection system, which
DOES have a fuel return line and a two speed boost pump. Standard method
to deal with vapor lock, pump cavitation, etc on that engine is to turn
the boost pump to Low.
None of that is relevant to a Lycoming with Bendix/Precision fuel
injection. No Mooney with Lycoming engine, with integral fuel tanks, just
like the RVseries uses a fuel return line, and that is how they have been
certified for the last 45 years.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
James Hein said:
> Vapor lock is NOT just a startup problem.
>
> The following is an NTSB report from a crash near where my parents live.
The pilot and passengers were not hurt, and although it sounds like he
did everything right vapor lock still bit him.
>
> -Jim 40384
> N77782,
Message 24
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|
<005301c5df1e$6d193a70$6d01a8c0@Mark>
| Subject: | Re: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
Again, Cirrus really isn't relevant to the RV-10 unless you plan on using
a Continental engine and injection. Both models of Cirrus use Continental
engines. Very different fuel injection from the Bendix/Precision used on
Lycomings.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mark & Kelly said:
> I was in a Cirrus SR22 for a while here in Dallas, and anytime the temp
> gets above 95 degrees, SOP was to leave the fuel pump on throughout the
> climb and also on descent. I had a couple of attention getting episodes
> doing IFR practice approaches with an instructor that said that it was
> dangerous to leave the fuel pump on continuously, that were resolved when
> the fuel pump was turned on. One one occassion, the engine went silent
> doing a procedure turn, but came back to life when the fuel pump was
> switched on. Do any of you see any problem with just leaving the pump on
> when it's hot in the 10?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
You don't exist? Existential thought, sorry.
John
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>Mani,
>
>I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the last one
>and discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce Breckenridge's
photo?
>That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I know for
a
>fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
>
>Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
>
>John Jessen
> 328 HS and Elevators
>
>do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it,
>both builders and finished ones.
>http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
>
>
>Mani
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ball" <jball@eci2fly.com>
This whole discussion started with an inquiry about the ECi mechanical
fuel injection system for Lycoming engines. It is something like the
Continental design since it has a vane type of fuel pump as opposed to
the diaphragm Lycoming type and it requires a vapor return line. It has
a number or advantages over the Bendix type of fuel injection. ECi is
testing this system and it will be available sometime early next year.
For more information check out
eci2fly.com.
Kind Regards,
Jim Ball
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
Again, Cirrus really isn't relevant to the RV-10 unless you plan on
using a Continental engine and injection. Both models of Cirrus use
Continental engines. Very different fuel injection from the
Bendix/Precision used on Lycomings.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Mark & Kelly said:
> I was in a Cirrus SR22 for a while here in Dallas, and anytime the
> temp gets above 95 degrees, SOP was to leave the fuel pump on
> throughout the climb and also on descent. I had a couple of attention
> getting episodes doing IFR practice approaches with an instructor that
> said that it was dangerous to leave the fuel pump on continuously,
> that were resolved when the fuel pump was turned on. One one
> occassion, the engine went silent doing a procedure turn, but came
> back to life when the fuel pump was switched on. Do any of you see
> any problem with just leaving the pump on when it's hot in the 10?
>
> Thanks,
> Mark
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
Move
do not archive
On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:57 AM, James Ochs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
>
> weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
>
> do not archive
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>>
>> Mani,
>>
>> I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the
>> last one and
>> discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce
>> Breckenridge's photo?
>> That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I
>> know for a
>> fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
>> Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
>>
>> John Jessen
>> 328 HS and Elevators
>> do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee"
>> <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to
>> it, both
>> builders and finished ones. http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
>>
>>
>> Mani
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
Thanks for the information. Can you share what some of the features of the
Eci system are, and why they are advantagous over the Bendix system?
James Ball said:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ball" <jball@eci2fly.com>
>
> This whole discussion started with an inquiry about the ECi mechanical
> fuel injection system for Lycoming engines. It is something like the
> Continental design since it has a vane type of fuel pump as opposed to
> the diaphragm Lycoming type and it requires a vapor return line. It has
> a number or advantages over the Bendix type of fuel injection. ECi is
> testing this system and it will be available sometime early next year.
> For more information check out
>
> eci2fly.com.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Jim Ball
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Frappr Map for the list |
Would someone post a link to the map again. Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter<mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com<mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>>
Move
do not archive
On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:57 AM, James Ochs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org<mailto:jochs@froody.org>>
>
> weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
>
> do not archive
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com<mailto:jjessen@rcn.com>>
>>
>> Mani,
>>
>> I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the
>> last one and
>> discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce
>> Breckenridge's photo?
>> That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I
>> know for a
>> fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
>> Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
>>
>> John Jessen
>> 328 HS and Elevators
>> do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee"
>> <maniravee@sbcglobal.net<mailto:maniravee@sbcglobal.net>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to
>> it, both
>> builders and finished ones. http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica<http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica>
>>
>>
>> Mani
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
igator?RV10-List>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
Make sure you put something in the "shoutout" box or it won't add you.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Ochs
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>Mani,
>
>I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the last one
>and discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce Breckenridge's photo?
>That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I know for a
>fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
>
>Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
>
>John Jessen
> 328 HS and Elevators
>
>do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
>Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee" <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>
>
>Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to it,
>both builders and finished ones.
>http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
>
>
>Mani
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
Randy,
Please explain why when the heat controls are turned off the unused heat
is dumped around the fuel pump
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703-414-6141
cell: 571-215-6134
________________________________
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
Well let me tell you about one instance of my fuel system starting to
vapor lock. It was a hot day this summer, about 96 deg. I was climbing
out at about 1000 fpm from 150ft airport elev. to 9000ft. when I was
passing through 5000ft I noticed the fuel pressure dropping from its
normal 19 to 21 psi to around 17.5. I turned on the fuel pump and the
pressure went to 28 psi. I lowered the nose and left the fuel pump on
for 5 min or so. Lowering the nose did the trick. Turned the fuel pump
off and the pressures were fine. I have a 1" scat tube running to the
fuel pump to cool it. Remember that with the heater controls turned off
that the unused heated air is dumped right around the fuel pump. I have
had no issues starting the engine when hot - 100 plus deg. The trick is
to leave the mix full lean and start cranking. After 5 revs or so if it
isn't running already start bleeding in some fuel with the mix. Starts
every time. 102 hours and counting. I am working on my IFR ticket for
the next few months. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
Vapor lock is NOT just a startup problem.
The following is an NTSB report from a crash near where my parents live.
The pilot and passengers were not hurt, and although it sounds like he
did everything right vapor lock still bit him.
-Jim 40384
NTSB Number: CHI04CA210
Narrative Type: NTSB FINAL NARRATIVE (6120.4)
The airplane was destroyed during a post-impact ground fire, following a
loss of engine power and subsequent forced landing. The pilot reported
he had landed and shut down the engine for a few minutes prior to
loading his two passengers for a local flight. The pilot stated the
airplane contained 35 gallons of fuel prior to the accident flight. The
pilot reported the engine "shuddered" during takeoff roll and he aborted
the takeoff. The pilot stated he then performed an engine run-up check
and the engine "felt fine." The airplane experienced a loss of engine
power while on the second takeoff attempt. The pilot stated he
maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby road and it impacted a road
sign prior to coming to stop. An on-ground fire engulfed the airplane
shortly thereafter. There were no anomalies noted with the engine during
a post-accident operational test. The outside temperature at the time of
the accident was approximately 28 degrees Celsius. A condition known as
vapor lock can occur when engine heats the fuel lines and the contained
fuel becomes a vapor. This tendency is increased if the fuel in the tank
is warm, commonly as a result of high atmospheric temperatures. The fuel
vapor can result in partial or complete interruption of fuel flow to the
engine.
Narrative Type: NTSB PRELIMINARY NARRATIVE (6120.19)
On July 31, 2004, at 1519 eastern daylight time, a Piper PA-28RT-201T,
N77782, piloted by a private pilot, was destroyed during a post-impact
ground fire following a loss of engine power and subsequent forced
landing near Plymouth, Michigan. The airplane experienced the loss of
engine power while on initial climb from runway 18 (2,556 feet by 75
feet, dry asphalt) at the Canton-Plymouth-Mettetal Airport (1DS). Visual
meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The
personal flight was operating under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91
without a flight plan. The pilot and one passenger were not injured. One
passenger reported minor injuries. The local area flight was originating
at the time of the accident.
The pilot reported he had landed at 1500 and shut down the engine for a
few minutes prior to loading his two passengers for a local flight. The
pilot stated the airplane contained 35 gallons of 100 low-lead aviation
fuel prior to the accident flight.
The pilot reported the engine "shuddered" during takeoff roll and he
aborted the takeoff. The pilot stated he then performed an engine run-up
check and the engine "felt fine." The pilot reported he taxied onto
runway 18 and set the engine power to 2,500 rpm and 38 inches of
manifold pressure. The pilot stated the airplane became airborne and
experienced a loss of engine power while on initial climb.
The pilot reported he switched fuel tanks, but there was no increase in
engine power. The pilot stated the airplane descended under some power
lines as he maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby road. The pilot
reported the airplane impacted a road sign prior to coming to stop and
an on-ground fire engulfed the airplane shortly thereafter.
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspectors performed the on-site
investigation. The engine was removed from the accident airplane and
mounted on a compatible airframe for an operational engine test. The
engine started and idled without anomalies. The engine was then
accelerated to 2,200 rpm which yielded approximately 80 lbs of oil
pressure. The engine was then shut-off using the mixture idle cut-off.
There were no anomalies noted with the engine during the operational
test.
The closest weather reporting station to the accident site was located
at the Willow Run Airport (YIP), Detroit, Michigan, about 7.4 nautical
miles (nm) southeast of the accident site. The airport is equipped with
an Automated Surface Observing System (ASOS). The following weather
conditions were reported prior to and at the time of the accident:
At 1453 edt: Wind 230 degrees at 11 knots, visibility unrestricted at 10
statute miles (sm), few clouds at 5,000 feet above ground level (agl),
temperature 28 degrees Celsius, dew point -01 degrees Celsius, altimeter
setting 29.90 inches-of-mercury.
According to FAA publication AC 65-12A, fuel normally remains in a
liquid state until it is discharged into the air stream and changes into
a vapor. Under certain conditions the fuel may vaporize in the lines,
pumps, or other fuel components. The vapor pockets formed by the
premature vaporization can restrict the fuel flow through units that
were designed to handle liquids rather than gases. The resulting partial
or complete interruption of the fuel flow is called vapor lock.
Transfer of heat from the engine tends to cause vaporization of fuel in
the lines and the pump. This tendency is increased if the fuel in the
tank is warm, commonly as a result of high atmospheric temperatures.
Vapor lock can become serious enough to block the fuel flow completely
and stop the engine. Even small amounts of vapor in the inlet line can
restrict the fuel flow to the engine driven pump and ultimately reduce
its output pressure.
Narrative Type: NTSB PROBABLE CAUSE NARRATIVE
The loss of engine power at a low altitude due to a fuel flow
restriction caused by vapor lock. Factors to the accident included the
high atmospheric temperature and the road sign that the airplane
impacted during the forced landing.
Jesse Saint wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
<mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
I am a little confused as well. We have a Bendix injection system. We
haven't put a return line in. We do have an overflow line that just
runs
out the back of the cowling. The system can't be pumping much more fuel
that it is using or our fuel flows would be higher. When burning
6.5-7gph @
17,500, I can't imagine that we are actually burning less than that and
wasting a significant amount. Is the main issue here vapor lock? Would
this system not work the same way whether you have a return line or an
overflow drain line? Running the boost pump is going to do the same
thing
any, right. I am not much of an engine guy, so please let me know where
I
am wrong. Also, if vapor lock mainly a startup issue, or are we needing
to
worry about this while we are flying? We certainly haven't had any
issues
with the system during our 150 hours in the air, but if it is an
accident
waiting to happen, it doesn't matter how many hours we have flown the
wrong
way, we want to fix it.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
<mailto:kellym@aviating.com>
It depends on the brand fuel injection used. TCM and Bendix do not use a
common rail, they send fuel to a distributor that sends it to individual
injectors. Bendix regulates the fuel flow at the fuel servo, and only
fuel
needed goes to the distributor and injectors. Fuel pumps are self
limiting, returning excess pressure to their low pressure side. TCM
(Continental) is different, and does use a return loop. I don't know
what
aftermarket systems use.
There isn't much in common between aircraft injection systems and auto
systems. Aircraft still use continuous injection, most cars use
individual
timed injection for better emissions control. Aircraft distributors are
pressure controled, so when pressure drops below a preset minimum, no
fuel
goes to the injectors, allowing idle cutoff.
Lloyd, Daniel R. said:
It does, I did not realize there is a valve that is opened and
closed.
That makes more sense. I have not flown behind an IO engine,
just
standard. Now maybe you can explain to me, is it like in an
auto, where
there is allot more fuel going to the rail then is used, causing
a
return line to be necessary? or does it only pump what is
required/
used? I thought fuel injection meant a looped system, where only
the
portion of fuel that went to the injectors was used and the rest
sent
back to the tank?
_____
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ball" <jball@eci2fly.com>
Reliability and lighter weight are the primary advantages.
The mechanical type design is quite a bit older than the servo design
and has a long track record of success. In the mechanical design, fuel
flow is controlled by precision machined cams and orifices which are
very stable once they are set. The servo systems are subject to
variations due to changes in elasticity and/or the pressure of some very
delicate springs in the regulator section. With the mechanical system,
there are no sensors, solenoids, or black boxes to fail or require
backup.
That's it in a nutshell.
J.B.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym@aviating.com>
Thanks for the information. Can you share what some of the features of
the Eci system are, and why they are advantagous over the Bendix system?
James Ball said:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "James Ball" <jball@eci2fly.com>
>
> This whole discussion started with an inquiry about the ECi mechanical
> fuel injection system for Lycoming engines. It is something like the
> Continental design since it has a vane type of fuel pump as opposed to
> the diaphragm Lycoming type and it requires a vapor return line. It
> has a number or advantages over the Bendix type of fuel injection. ECi
> is testing this system and it will be available sometime early next
year.
> For more information check out
>
> eci2fly.com.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Jim Ball
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
The real link is: http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
I have it linked from my site too: http://www.myrv10.com
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Cram wrote:
> Would someone post a link to the map again. Thanks
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jeff Carpenter <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:39 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter
> <jeff@westcottpress.com <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>>
>
> Move
>
> do not archive
> On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:57 AM, James Ochs wrote:
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org
> <mailto:jochs@froody.org>>
> >
> > weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > John Jessen wrote:
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com
> <mailto:jjessen@rcn.com>>
> >>
> >> Mani,
> >>
> >> I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the
> >> last one and
> >> discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce
> >> Breckenridge's photo?
> >> That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I
> >> know for a
> >> fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
> >> Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
> >>
> >> John Jessen
> >> 328 HS and Elevators
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani
> Ravee
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
> >>
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee"
> >> <maniravee@sbcglobal.net <mailto:maniravee@sbcglobal.net>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to
> >> it, both
> >> builders and finished ones. http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
> >>
> >>
> >> Mani
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ================================================== Photoshare, and
> much much ;
> ===============================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
ummm, it was in the bottom of your message.....
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
Would someone post a link to the map again. Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
=09
Move
=09
do not archive
On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:57 AM, James Ochs wrote:
=09
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
>
> weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
>
> do not archive
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>>
>> Mani,
>>
>> I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the
>> last one and
>> discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce
>> Breckenridge's photo?
>> That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I
>> know for a
>> fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
>> Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
>>
>> John Jessen
>> 328 HS and Elevators
>> do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee"
>> <maniravee@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to
>> it, both
>> builders and finished ones. http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
>>
>>
>> Mani
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Photoshare, and much much ;
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
=09
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | For the new starters |
A lot of people are a long way into the project and there's a lot of talk about
painting and engines etc which is years away for those just starting,so, for
those who have just started I'll share a few things I've learned so far (I know
you can look up the archive but who cares).
Learning to rivet: it scares the crap out of all of us to begin with but here are
a few tricks I've learned. I have the advantage of working for a GA airline
and have access to LAME's and engineers etc and most of these tricks they gave
me.
1. When riveting flush rivets (AN426), run a line of masking tape either side of
the line of holes (on the gun side) and you'll find that the gun doesn't wander
around anywhere near as much.
2. When riveting AN470 rivets put a piece of masking tape over the machined head
of the rivet. You will very rarely miss another one or get another smiley.
3. When driving 3/32nd rivets use about 35-40PSI. The longer the rivet attachment
the slightly higher the pressure.
4. When driving 1/8th rivets use about 65-70PSI. Again, when you need to use a
longer rivet attachment increase the pressure slightly.
5. Try as best you can to drive the rivet in one go rather than multiple goes.
Hold the rivet gun and bucking bar as square to the rivet as possible and just
let the bucking bar do the work. If your pressures are right you'll see the head
forming before your eyes and it will feel right. There's no other way to describe
it.
6. Just have a go! By the time you get half way through the HS you'll wonder what
all the fuss was about. Then again, when you get near the end of the elevators
where you're expected to get your large hands into ridiculously awkward positions
to drive a rivet you'll feel the frustration creeping back.
Mark Drury
40436 (just finishing elevators)
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: For the new starters |
In a message dated 11/1/2005 5:21:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mark@skytrans.com.au writes:
for those who have just started I'll share a few things I've learned so far
Mark,
Thanks! I just ordered my tail feathers for the RV-10~ Your tips are
great.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Steve
Stephen G. Blank,DDS
Port St Lucie, FL
772-475-5556 cell
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Frappr Map for the list |
opps
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)<mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
ummm, it was in the bottom of your message.....
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:05 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
Would someone post a link to the map again. Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Carpenter<mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com<mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>>
Move
do not archive
On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:57 AM, James Ochs wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org<mailto:jochs@froody.org>>
>
> weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
>
> do not archive
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com<mailto:jjessen@rcn.com>>
>>
>> Mani,
>>
>> I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the
>> last one and
>> discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce
>> Breckenridge's photo?
>> That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo, and I
>> know for a
>> fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
>> Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
>>
>> John Jessen
>> 328 HS and Elevators
>> do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mani Ravee
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee"
>> <maniravee@sbcglobal.net<mailto:maniravee@sbcglobal.net>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves to
>> it, both
>> builders and finished ones. http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica<http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica>
>>
>>
>> Mani
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Placards/Nameplate |
Nameplate on Vans Rv-10 is on the left side of the fuselage under the HS.
Refer to pic.
Jim C
Do Not Archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I was thinking that on my next order from ACS, I'd get whatever logbooks
and placards I'll need. I see on this page of ACS's catalog they have a
nameplate, and stainless steel ID tag on the top of the page.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/pdf/catalog/Cat06348.pdf
I need both of these, right? I've seen the black on the side under
the HS on -10's. Where would the nameplate go?
Tim
Message 39
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| Subject: | Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection |
He must mean the fuel pump mounted on the engine. That is where the heated
air is dumped when the cabin heat is turned off. It goes right into the
engine compartment below the mags and right by the fuel pump.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org/>
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Conti, Rick
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
Randy,
Please explain why when the heat controls are turned off the unused heat is
dumped around the fuel pump
Thank You
Rick Conti
office: 703-414-6141
cell: 571-215-6134
_____
From: Randy DeBauw [mailto:Randy@abros.com]
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
Well let me tell you about one instance of my fuel system starting to vapor
lock. It was a hot day this summer, about 96 deg. I was climbing out at
about 1000 fpm from 150ft airport elev. to 9000ft. when I was passing
through 5000ft I noticed the fuel pressure dropping from its normal 19 to 21
psi to around 17.5. I turned on the fuel pump and the pressure went to 28
psi. I lowered the nose and left the fuel pump on for 5 min or so. Lowering
the nose did the trick. Turned the fuel pump off and the pressures were
fine. I have a 1" scat tube running to the fuel pump to cool it. Remember
that with the heater controls turned off that the unused heated air is
dumped right around the fuel pump. I have had no issues starting the engine
when hot - 100 plus deg. The trick is to leave the mix full lean and start
cranking. After 5 revs or so if it isn't running already start bleeding in
some fuel with the mix. Starts every time. 102 hours and counting. I am
working on my IFR ticket for the next few months. Randy
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
Vapor lock is NOT just a startup problem.
The following is an NTSB report from a crash near where my parents live. The
pilot and passengers were not hurt, and although it sounds like he did
everything right vapor lock still bit him.
-Jim 40384
NTSB Number: CHI04CA210
Narrative Type: NTSB FINAL NARRATIVE (6120.4)
The airplane was destroyed during a post-impact ground fire, following a
loss of engine power and subsequent forced landing. The pilot reported he
had landed and shut down the engine for a few minutes prior to loading his
two passengers for a local flight. The pilot stated the airplane contained
35 gallons of fuel prior to the accident flight. The pilot reported the
engine "shuddered" during takeoff roll and he aborted the takeoff. The pilot
stated he then performed an engine run-up check and the engine "felt fine."
The airplane experienced a loss of engine power while on the second takeoff
attempt. The pilot stated he maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby
road and it impacted a road sign prior to coming to stop. An on-ground fire
engulfed the airplane shortly thereafter. There were no anomalies noted with
the engine during a post-accident operational test. The outside temperature
at the time of the accident was approximately 28 degrees Celsius. A
condition known as vapor lock can occur when engine heats the fuel lines and
the contained fuel becomes a vapor. This tendency is increased if the fuel
in the tank is warm, commonly as a result of high atmospheric temperatures.
The fuel vapor can result in partial or complete interruption of fuel flow
to the engine.
Narrative Type: NTSB PRELIMINARY NARRATIVE (6120.19)
On July 31, 2004, at 1519 eastern daylight time, a Piper PA-28RT-201T,
N77782, piloted by a private pilot, was destroyed during a post-impact
ground fire following a loss of engine power and subsequent forced landing
near Plymouth, Michigan. The airplane experienced the loss of engine power
while on initial climb from runway 18 (2,556 feet by 75 feet, dry asphalt)
at the Canton-Plymouth-Mettetal Airport (1DS). Visual meteorological
conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The personal flight was
operating under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91 without a flight plan. The
pilot and one passenger were not injured. One passenger reported minor
injuries. The local area flight was originating at the time of the accident.
The pilot reported he had landed at 1500 and shut down the engine for a few
minutes prior to loading his two passengers for a local flight. The pilot
stated the airplane contained 35 gallons of 100 low-lead aviation fuel prior
to the accident flight.
The pilot reported the engine "shuddered" during takeoff roll and he aborted
the takeoff. The pilot stated he then performed an engine run-up check and
the engine "felt fine." The pilot reported he taxied onto runway 18 and set
the engine power to 2,500 rpm and 38 inches of manifold pressure. The pilot
stated the airplane became airborne and experienced a loss of engine power
while on initial climb.
The pilot reported he switched fuel tanks, but there was no increase in
engine power. The pilot stated the airplane descended under some power lines
as he maneuvered the airplane to land on a nearby road. The pilot reported
the airplane impacted a road sign prior to coming to stop and an on-ground
fire engulfed the airplane shortly thereafter.
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) inspectors performed the on-site
investigation. The engine was removed from the accident airplane and mounted
on a compatible airframe for an operational engine test. The engine started
and idled without anomalies. The engine was then accelerated to 2,200 rpm
which yielded approximately 80 lbs of oil pressure. The engine was then
shut-off using the mixture idle cut-off. There were no anomalies noted with
the engine during the operational test.
The closest weather reporting station to the accident site was located at
the Willow Run Airport (YIP), Detroit, Michigan, about 7.4 nautical miles
(nm) southeast of the accident site. The airport is equipped with an
Automated Surface Observing System (ASOS). The following weather conditions
were reported prior to and at the time of the accident:
At 1453 edt: Wind 230 degrees at 11 knots, visibility unrestricted at 10
statute miles (sm), few clouds at 5,000 feet above ground level (agl),
temperature 28 degrees Celsius, dew point -01 degrees Celsius, altimeter
setting 29.90 inches-of-mercury.
According to FAA publication AC 65-12A, fuel normally remains in a liquid
state until it is discharged into the air stream and changes into a vapor.
Under certain conditions the fuel may vaporize in the lines, pumps, or other
fuel components. The vapor pockets formed by the premature vaporization can
restrict the fuel flow through units that were designed to handle liquids
rather than gases. The resulting partial or complete interruption of the
fuel flow is called vapor lock.
Transfer of heat from the engine tends to cause vaporization of fuel in the
lines and the pump. This tendency is increased if the fuel in the tank is
warm, commonly as a result of high atmospheric temperatures. Vapor lock can
become serious enough to block the fuel flow completely and stop the engine.
Even small amounts of vapor in the inlet line can restrict the fuel flow to
the engine driven pump and ultimately reduce its output pressure.
Narrative Type: NTSB PROBABLE CAUSE NARRATIVE
The loss of engine power at a low altitude due to a fuel flow restriction
caused by vapor lock. Factors to the accident included the high atmospheric
temperature and the road sign that the airplane impacted during the forced
landing.
Jesse Saint wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
<jesse@itecusa.org>
I am a little confused as well. We have a Bendix injection system. We
haven't put a return line in. We do have an overflow line that just runs
out the back of the cowling. The system can't be pumping much more fuel
that it is using or our fuel flows would be higher. When burning 6.5-7gph @
17,500, I can't imagine that we are actually burning less than that and
wasting a significant amount. Is the main issue here vapor lock? Would
this system not work the same way whether you have a return line or an
overflow drain line? Running the boost pump is going to do the same thing
any, right. I am not much of an engine guy, so please let me know where I
am wrong. Also, if vapor lock mainly a startup issue, or are we needing to
worry about this while we are flying? We certainly haven't had any issues
with the system during our 150 hours in the air, but if it is an accident
waiting to happen, it doesn't matter how many hours we have flown the wrong
way, we want to fix it.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly McMullen
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Vapor return for mechanical fuel injection
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen"
<mailto:kellym@aviating.com> <kellym@aviating.com>
It depends on the brand fuel injection used. TCM and Bendix do not use a
common rail, they send fuel to a distributor that sends it to individual
injectors. Bendix regulates the fuel flow at the fuel servo, and only fuel
needed goes to the distributor and injectors. Fuel pumps are self
limiting, returning excess pressure to their low pressure side. TCM
(Continental) is different, and does use a return loop. I don't know what
aftermarket systems use.
There isn't much in common between aircraft injection systems and auto
systems. Aircraft still use continuous injection, most cars use individual
timed injection for better emissions control. Aircraft distributors are
pressure controled, so when pressure drops below a preset minimum, no fuel
goes to the injectors, allowing idle cutoff.
Lloyd, Daniel R. said:
It does, I did not realize there is a valve that is opened and closed.
That makes more sense. I have not flown behind an IO engine, just
standard. Now maybe you can explain to me, is it like in an auto, where
there is allot more fuel going to the rail then is used, causing a
return line to be necessary? or does it only pump what is required/
used? I thought fuel injection meant a looped system, where only the
portion of fuel that went to the injectors was used and the rest sent
back to the tank?
_____
==================================== ====================================
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: For the new starters |
Mark,
Really nice post, thanks.
Dave Lammers
HS
do not archive
Mark Drury wrote:
> A lot of people are a long way into the project and there's a lot of
> talk about painting and engines etc which is years away for those just
> starting,so, for those who have just started I'll share a few things
> I've learned so far (I know you can look up the archive but who cares).
>
> Learning to rivet: it scares the crap out of all of us to begin with
> but here are a few tricks I've learned. I have the advantage of
> working for a GA airline and have access to LAME's and engineers etc
> and most of these tricks they gave me.
>
> 1. When riveting flush rivets (AN426), run a line of masking tape
> either side of the line of holes (on the gun side) and you'll find
> that the gun doesn't wander around anywhere near as much.
> 2. When riveting AN470 rivets put a piece of masking tape over the
> machined head of the rivet. You will very rarely miss another one or
> get another smiley.
> 3. When driving 3/32nd rivets use about 35-40PSI. The longer the rivet
> attachment the slightly higher the pressure.
> 4. When driving 1/8th rivets use about 65-70PSI. Again, when you need
> to use a longer rivet attachment increase the pressure slightly.
> 5. Try as best you can to drive the rivet in one go rather than
> multiple goes. Hold the rivet gun and bucking bar as square to the
> rivet as possible and just let the bucking bar do the work. If your
> pressures are right you'll see the head forming before your eyes and
> it will feel right. There's no other way to describe it.
> 6. Just have a go! By the time you get half way through the HS you'll
> wonder what all the fuss was about. Then again, when you get near the
> end of the elevators where you're expected to get your large hands
> into ridiculously awkward positions to drive a rivet you'll feel the
> frustration creeping back.
>
> Mark Drury
> 40436 (just finishing elevators)
>
> Text inserted by Panda Platinum 2005 Internet Security:
>
> This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited
> mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: It is spam!
> <http://127.0.0.1:6083/Panda?ID=pav_14290&SPAM=true>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: For the new starters |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
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Message 42
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| Subject: | Gear leg Socket - 7.9mm Drill |
G'day all,
I have checked the archives and notice that this was discussed a little earlier
in the year. Given the progress since, I was wondering what the concensus was
on drilling the gear leg socket. Options appear to be:
a. find a 7.9 mm (.311) drill and drill per plans.
b. drill to 5/16
c. ream to 5/16 and install a close tolerance bolt
Which is the best way to go??
cheers,
Ron
187 fuse
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
I noticed that there is a builder, *George Costigan, *who is less than
ten miles from me.
George, How far along are you?
Call me sometime, I'm in the phone book!
Also, are you available for help riveting? I'm just about to rivet the
top wing skins, and I found out that my arms are too short. So, I need
help...
-Jim Hein, 40384 About to rivet the top wing skins this weekend (hopefully)
John Cram wrote:
> opps
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:42 PM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>
> ummm, it was in the bottom of your message.....
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Cram
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:05 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>
> Would someone post a link to the map again. Thanks
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jeff Carpenter <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:39 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter
> <jeff@westcottpress.com <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>>
>
> Move
>
> do not archive
> On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:57 AM, James Ochs wrote:
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs
> <jochs@froody.org <mailto:jochs@froody.org>>
> >
> > weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > John Jessen wrote:
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen"
> <jjessen@rcn.com <mailto:jjessen@rcn.com>>
> >>
> >> Mani,
> >>
> >> I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep
> the
> >> last one and
> >> discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce
> >> Breckenridge's photo?
> >> That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo,
> and I
> >> know for a
> >> fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
> >> Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
> >>
> >> John Jessen
> >> 328 HS and Elevators
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Mani Ravee
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
> >>
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee"
> >> <maniravee@sbcglobal.net <mailto:maniravee@sbcglobal.net>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add
> yourselves to
> >> it, both
> >> builders and finished ones.
> http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
> >>
> >>
> >> Mani
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ================================================== Photoshare,
> and much much ;
> ===============================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Lycoming O 540 starter |
I ran across this the other night on Ebay. Anyone seen these before? Appears
to be equal to the Sky-tec HT model for $255. Anyone used these versus the other
starters?
Textron - Lycoming Starter
Fits all engines up to .0540
1.4 kW gear reduction AIR-BOAT starter.
1 Year Warranty!
2 times stronger than the original!!
10 Lbs. Less!
Starter weighs 9 lbs!
All bearings no bushings!
VERY STRONG AND SUPER LIGHT
This is a direct replacement for the original unit.
Will fit up to 540 Textron Lycoming Engines!
May be used for Experimental Aircraft. (non-certified)
This is for the 149 tooth flywheel.
I ran across this the other night on Ebay. Anyone seen these before? Appears to
be equal to the Sky-tec HT model for $255. Anyone used these versus the other
starters?
Textron - LycomingStarter
Fits all engines up to .0540
1.4 kW gear reduction AIR-BOAT starter.
1 Year Warranty!
2 times stronger than the original!!
10Lbs. Less!
Starter weighs 9 lbs!
All bearings no bushings!
VERY STRONG AND SUPER LIGHT
This is a direct replacement for the original unit.
Will fit up to 540 Textron Lycoming Engines!
May be used for Experimental Aircraft. (non-certified)
<EM>This is for the 149 tooth flywheel. </EM>
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FUnzDz1B/wD1mgDWooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAQVQ1j/j2T/f/oaviqGsf8eyf7/9DUT+FjW5krR+
NAUDFNrkOgcvSimjgYpR0oAD6Un8NOpABQA3jFGBTtopFoAbtGOtG2nLSUByoq31pHdwmOaNXU9i
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484vx/nVwdq74fCvQ53uFFFFWIKRqWkagDEvAbHU4rpeIX+ST2HrVizihsTJALpd0zExqSMjjjHr
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7C3CqGDyL/dkkZl/InFXVUIFVQAPQUAf/9k=
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Engine Mount Clearance Update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "DejaVu" <wvu@ameritel.net>
Tim,
I see no reason why the control cables have to go thru the gap. I will
re-route my cables to go below the mount.
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine Mount Clearance Update
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I'm not sure if sagging will be a problem in that area or not. If the
> top ones sag from the weight more than the bottom, it may tilt the
> engine down in front and lift the back up a litttle on the bottom,
> actually helping. If they sag together more, it might hurt. Either
> way, unless someone has lots of clearance, I don't know if I'd be
> comfortable routing my cables thru that small gap.
>
> Thanks for the comment, by the way.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Patrick Thyssen wrote:
> > One thing after a few years the engine mounts, rubber isolators, will
> > start to sag, and so you will need to watch this for vibration rub on
> > the mount. We see this on all types of AC esp on C-182 with the front
> > cowling and c-206's left front.
> > Pat #257
> >
> >
> > */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
> > he many
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Gear leg Socket - 7.9mm Drill |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
You might have luck with any of them, but I'd suggest getting
as close to .311 / 7.9mm as possible, and reaming.
I have a friend who does machining at home, and he just happened to
have a .311 reamer sitting around. I guess a lot of machinists
have them slightly under and over the common sizes (.3125), so
my advice would be to look for a local machine tool supply and
I'd bet they have them. It worked great for me that way.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
McGANN, Ron wrote:
> G'day all,
>
> I have checked the archives and notice that this was discussed a little
> earlier in the year. Given the progress since, I was wondering what the
> concensus was on drilling the gear leg socket. Options appear to be:
>
> a. find a 7.9 mm (.311) drill and drill per plans.
> b. drill to 5/16
> c. ream to 5/16 and install a close tolerance bolt
>
> Which is the best way to go??
>
> cheers,
> Ron
> 187 fuse
Message 47
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| Subject: | Frappr Map for the list |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Henkjan van der Zouw" <henkjan@zme.nl>
The world is bigger than just the USA!, I wish to be on the map too and
be part of the RV10 family.... but unfortunately I'm in Europe, is there
a way to expand the map in anyway?
Henkjan van der Zouw / Netherlands / 40355
http://www.kitlog.com/mykitlog/index.php?p=builders&builderid=136
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Tim Olson
Verzonden: dinsdag 1 november 2005 22:31
Aan: rv10-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
The real link is: http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
I have it linked from my site too: http://www.myrv10.com
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Cram wrote:
> Would someone post a link to the map again. Thanks
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jeff Carpenter <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 01, 2005 3:39 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter
> <jeff@westcottpress.com <mailto:jeff@westcottpress.com>>
>
> Move
>
> do not archive
> On Nov 1, 2005, at 11:57 AM, James Ochs wrote:
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org
> <mailto:jochs@froody.org>>
> >
> > weird. It won't take my zip code (94085).... any ideas?
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> > John Jessen wrote:
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen"
<jjessen@rcn.com
> <mailto:jjessen@rcn.com>>
> >>
> >> Mani,
> >>
> >> I may have entered myself 4 times. Hopefully you can keep the
> >> last one and
> >> discard the others. Otherwise, can you delete Bruce
> >> Breckenridge's photo?
> >> That's an imposter. His work space is clean in that photo,
and I
> >> know for a
> >> fact that he can't even find his worktables, let alone his HS!
> >> Bruce B !!!!! You cleaned up for the photo op, you dog.
> >>
> >> John Jessen
> >> 328 HS and Elevators
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Mani
> Ravee
> >> Sent: Tuesday, November 01, 2005 4:36 AM
> >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: RV10-List: Frappr Map for the list
> >>
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mani Ravee"
> >> <maniravee@sbcglobal.net <mailto:maniravee@sbcglobal.net>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Guys, Here is a Frappr map for north america. Add yourselves
to
> >> it, both
> >> builders and finished ones.
http://www.frappr.com/rv10snorthamerica
> >>
> >>
> >> Mani
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ================================================== Photoshare, and
> much much ;
> ===============================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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