Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:09 AM - LOC... (Matt Dralle)
2. 04:14 AM - Re: Carrying Long Items (Roger Pierce)
3. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Carrying Long Items (RAS)
4. 08:17 AM - Re: Cutting the AEX (Rick)
5. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Carrying Long Items (James Ochs)
6. 05:12 PM - Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question (Phil White)
7. 06:37 PM - Re: Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question (Jesse Saint)
8. 06:57 PM - Re: Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question (David McNeill)
9. 07:50 PM - Re: Holes vs. Noise vs. ventilation question (John W. Cox)
Message 1
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Hi Listers,
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Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: Carrying Long Items |
I've been considering putting a door in the rear bulkhead and putting oxygen bottles
behind it, possibly one on each side of the battery for balance. Is that
something anyone else has considered? Some of the composite O2 bottles are
pretty light weight.
Roger Pierce
Bakersfield, CA
QB Wings
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Carrying Long Items |
Hi,
Have you considered the smaller version and mount them under the front seats, especially
if you consider the composite ones, you can get pretty short with larger
diameter.
----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Pierce
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 12:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RE: Carrying Long Items
I've been considering putting a door in the rear bulkhead and putting oxygen
bottles behind it, possibly one on each side of the battery for balance. Is that
something anyone else has considered? Some of the composite O2 bottles are
pretty light weight.
Roger Pierce
Bakersfield, CA
QB Wings
Message 4
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DNA: do not archive
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Carrying Long Items |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Ochs <jochs@froody.org>
Randy has done pretty much exactly that in 610RV (#40400). He's got the
Mountain High system with one large bottle attached to the backside of
the bulkhead at the rear of the baggage area. I don't see any pictures
of his setup on his site (yeah, I'm probably just too lazy to have found
them) but I fully intend to plagarize his setup when I get to that
point. It's a very very very clean install of the oxygen system...
Randy, do you have some pics of that setup for the rest of us? ;)
James
Roger Pierce wrote:
> I've been considering putting a door in the rear bulkhead and putting
> oxygen bottles behind it, possibly one on each side of the battery for
> balance. Is that something anyone else has considered? Some of the
> composite O2 bottles are pretty light weight.
>
> Roger Pierce
> Bakersfield, CA
> QB Wings
Message 6
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| Subject: | Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
I am working on the last half of the fuse, and notice that there are
quite a few places where there are holes or gaps in either the outside
skin or between cabin and empennage. Just put the baggage door on, and
see a 1/4" by 1 inch gap where the longeron meets the door frame.
Noticed that the rear baggage bulkhead has V stiffening corrugations,
which form triangular openings between cabin and the rear of the plane
which is fairly open to low pressure areas outside it. The bottom skin
where cabin meets tail has several 1/8" gaps in the corners.
Are these gaps something I need to seal to have a quiet plane at 200
mph? Or are some openings desirable to allow ventilation and heating
air to exit the cabin so new can enter? Should openings be limited to
one, especially designed to give quiet air passage? If they should be
sealed, what are you using? Foam rubber, glop, tape?
What have you learned from flying one; Randy, Jesse, others?
Phil #40220 in IL (fuse floors)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Phil,
Well, I have to admit that we were getting back seat passengers complaining
of cold air coming in from the luggage area. We hadn't sealed the door yet,
so we did so. They said it was still there. Then we realized that air was
exiting from the hinge cavities around the door. We still haven't put the
door seals on, but it is time for that. Air was being sucked from those
areas and was being replaced by air from the back of the plane. I think it
would be very hard to seal off completely, especially with the way the
rudder hooks on and the gaps around the VS. We thought about sound
insulation and just decided that it was much easier, cheaper and probably
lighter to go with ANR headsets. Since we were going to be using ANR
anyway, we decided that would be the way to go. The plane is loud with the
headset off. It is quiet with the headset on. I imagine there is more
noise from the 260 horsies than there is from the air around the little
holes in the plane.
In other words, I don't think I can offer any good advice on your question
except to suggest that if you are going to try to soundproof the plane, you
are going to be doing a lot of it. If you are going to be using ANR's
anyway, then they will cut down on a little bit or a lot of noise, so take
that as far as you want to.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
F: 815-377-3694
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White
Subject: RV10-List: Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
I am working on the last half of the fuse, and notice that there are
quite a few places where there are holes or gaps in either the outside
skin or between cabin and empennage. Just put the baggage door on, and
see a 1/4" by 1 inch gap where the longeron meets the door frame.
Noticed that the rear baggage bulkhead has V stiffening corrugations,
which form triangular openings between cabin and the rear of the plane
which is fairly open to low pressure areas outside it. The bottom skin
where cabin meets tail has several 1/8" gaps in the corners.
Are these gaps something I need to seal to have a quiet plane at 200
mph? Or are some openings desirable to allow ventilation and heating
air to exit the cabin so new can enter? Should openings be limited to
one, especially designed to give quiet air passage? If they should be
sealed, what are you using? Foam rubber, glop, tape?
What have you learned from flying one; Randy, Jesse, others?
Phil #40220 in IL (fuse floors)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
I concur with your advice; I was talking with the IA who performed the
inspections on my C177RG. I took the sample package from B-quiet and
discussed the pros/cons. Your major concern should be whether the
soundproofing/insulation can attract/hold moisture. We also discussed the
advice of the interior repair station on the field. There advice: except for
the insulation on the firewall, the rest just adds weight, costs money and
creates potential for corrosion. Hence I will insulate the firewall interior
and use good noise canceling headsets.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> Phil,
>
> Well, I have to admit that we were getting back seat passengers
> complaining
> of cold air coming in from the luggage area. We hadn't sealed the door
> yet,
> so we did so. They said it was still there. Then we realized that air
> was
> exiting from the hinge cavities around the door. We still haven't put the
> door seals on, but it is time for that. Air was being sucked from those
> areas and was being replaced by air from the back of the plane. I think
> it
> would be very hard to seal off completely, especially with the way the
> rudder hooks on and the gaps around the VS. We thought about sound
> insulation and just decided that it was much easier, cheaper and probably
> lighter to go with ANR headsets. Since we were going to be using ANR
> anyway, we decided that would be the way to go. The plane is loud with
> the
> headset off. It is quiet with the headset on. I imagine there is more
> noise from the 260 horsies than there is from the air around the little
> holes in the plane.
>
> In other words, I don't think I can offer any good advice on your question
> except to suggest that if you are going to try to soundproof the plane,
> you
> are going to be doing a lot of it. If you are going to be using ANR's
> anyway, then they will cut down on a little bit or a lot of noise, so take
> that as far as you want to.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
> F: 815-377-3694
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2005 8:09 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
>
> I am working on the last half of the fuse, and notice that there are
> quite a few places where there are holes or gaps in either the outside
> skin or between cabin and empennage. Just put the baggage door on, and
> see a 1/4" by 1 inch gap where the longeron meets the door frame.
> Noticed that the rear baggage bulkhead has V stiffening corrugations,
> which form triangular openings between cabin and the rear of the plane
> which is fairly open to low pressure areas outside it. The bottom skin
> where cabin meets tail has several 1/8" gaps in the corners.
>
> Are these gaps something I need to seal to have a quiet plane at 200
> mph? Or are some openings desirable to allow ventilation and heating
> air to exit the cabin so new can enter? Should openings be limited to
> one, especially designed to give quiet air passage? If they should be
> sealed, what are you using? Foam rubber, glop, tape?
>
> What have you learned from flying one; Randy, Jesse, others?
>
> Phil #40220 in IL (fuse floors)
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Holes vs. Noise vs. ventilation question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
YES...On our Air Transport aircraft we use a lot of 3M Adhesive, ProSeal
and Red RTV. The insulation comes with using knowledge as a specialty
in Acoustic, in Thermal or in both solutions. Dan Newland over on the
Lancair list works for a company in the Bay Area called ORCON who does a
lions share of such production. He was considering a potential package
for kit built aircraft using their design and production techniques.
There products are often fiberglass batts encased in a sealed plastic
bag. Shaped for each cavity and needed solution. He is waiting for L,
H, and D of each item needed.
Corrosion control and sound (solid) airworthiness inspection techniques
demand that the object next to the material "to be inspected" is
removed. Doesn't matter if its glue, paint, foam, vinyl. Heavy Check
requires we strip it back to the basics. If in doubt, we resort to eddy
current. We have to take it all the way down. There are a number of
non-destructive techniques that kit builders should study up on.
Dan authored a story in Sport Aviation a few months ago on a trial
project on Dave Morss' Legacy. Turns out that both the thin Plexiglas
and firewall treatment transmit the greatest amount of noise. Even in a
quiet cockpit there is an advantage with noise reduction headsets. The
thermal subject would require closure from ambient air to get near a
solution. Otherwise there will always be the romance of a white scarf
and an open cockpit to think about. As the speed increases so does the
noise.
Heating, Ventilation and Air Pressure should always be a "controlled
solution" or your back to that bygone scarf. So people wait to paint,
some wait to install interiors, some wait to insulate. Don't forget the
flying.
Got my hearing test back recently from 32 years of flying. Now I know
why the majority of my friends wear hearing aids after 60.
John - KUAO
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil White
Subject: RV10-List: Holes vs Noise vs ventilation question
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Phil White" <philwhite9@aol.com>
I am working on the last half of the fuse, and notice that there are
quite a few places where there are holes or gaps in either the outside
skin or between cabin and empennage. Just put the baggage door on, and
see a 1/4" by 1 inch gap where the longeron meets the door frame.
Noticed that the rear baggage bulkhead has V stiffening corrugations,
which form triangular openings between cabin and the rear of the plane
which is fairly open to low pressure areas outside it. The bottom skin
where cabin meets tail has several 1/8" gaps in the corners.
Are these gaps something I need to seal to have a quiet plane at 200
mph? Or are some openings desirable to allow ventilation and heating
air to exit the cabin so new can enter? Should openings be limited to
one, especially designed to give quiet air passage? If they should be
sealed, what are you using? Foam rubber, glop, tape?
What have you learned from flying one; Randy, Jesse, others?
Phil #40220 in IL (fuse floors)
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