Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:13 AM - Re: Vettermans Exhaust Plans changes? (Tim Olson)
2. 07:28 AM - RV-10 List: Frapper Question ()
3. 08:03 AM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (Rick)
4. 09:27 AM - Centreline marking on J-channels (Indran Chelvanayagam)
5. 09:47 AM - Re: Centreline marking on J-channels ()
6. 09:54 AM - Re: Centreline marking on J-channels (Tim Olson)
7. 10:39 AM - J-channel Tips for Tim's Website (John Kirkland)
8. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: B&C oil filter (Scott Schmidt)
9. 11:04 AM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (John W. Cox)
10. 12:37 PM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (Nikolaos Napoli)
11. 01:12 PM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (David McNeill)
12. 01:41 PM - Just A Few More Days Left; Lagging Behind Last Year... (Matt Dralle)
13. 03:58 PM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (John W. Cox)
14. 04:29 PM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (McGANN, Ron)
15. 06:15 PM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (David McNeill)
16. 06:27 PM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (Carl Froehlich)
17. 06:37 PM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (Larry Rosen)
18. 08:12 PM - Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts (JOHN STARN)
19. 08:17 PM - Re: Re: B&C oil filter (Russell Daves)
20. 09:03 PM - Problem with WD-1002-R (Rene)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Vettermans Exhaust Plans changes? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Thanks Bob. Interesting that they have been shipping the Vetterman
exhaust for so long (I got mine in May) yet still with the old
plans.
For all watching the thread, I had an idea that worked for me, and
I verified it with Anh and also got an email from another builder.
The fuel hose that goes to the fuel servo has a 90 degree and
a straight end. If you flip that hose so the 90 is on the fuel
servo, and reroute your fuel hose, you should have much better
clearance from the exhaust. In my particular case, the fuel
line would be better if it was about 1-2" shorter, but it does
work fine the way it is. So that one little tip is worth a
lot. I would say that you would do well to not even try to
install that line until after you have the exhaust on unless you
look at another builders photos first so you know where to
route it. I'll add it to my page maybe later tonight.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Bob wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob" <bcondrey@cox.net>
>
> Tim,
>
> I just received my FWF kit last week and the plans still show the "six into
> one" style exhaust. Kit was shipped with the pair of "three into one"
> exhausts.
>
> Bob #40105
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 4:19 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Vettermans Exhaust Plans changes?
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Does anyone have a set of plans for the FWF kit that actually have
> the Vetterman exhaust instead of the old style? I got the exhaust
> on today (without plans), but I'm finding some odd clearance issues,
> like a fuel line that lays solidly agains the exhaust. I'm guessing
> that they'll have a whole different section of plans for
> use with the Vetterman's exhaust, and they probably have changes
> in some sections like the Fuel line section too. If someone
> has them, I'd love to know. And if you want to be REALLY nice,
> shoot some hi-res digital photos of them and send them to me. I could
> really use them to make sure things are going to be right.
> Hopefully Monday I can get an updated set from Van's if they've
> changed...which I'd have to assume they have.
>
> Tim
> --
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current section: Engine Hookups
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | RV-10 List: Frapper Question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <jim@combsfive.com>
I need to "Edit" the frapper page (My E-Mail Address Changed). When I click
on the "Cantact Admin" link, I get an message informing me the owner does not
have a E-mail contact and I get re-directed to "Rising Concepts".
They can't edit it either.
So the question is, Who started the frapper page and can they remove my link so
I can post a new corrected one?
Thanks, Jim Combs
N312F
#40192 - Fuselage
Do Not Archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
DNA: do not archive
Its-Bogus: do not forward to list - No Plain-Text Section
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Centreline marking on J-channels |
Was doing the wing J-channels today, and thought of a novel way to mark the
centreline - see the photos. For the image impaired, I took a scrap piece of
J-channel, nested it against another J-channel, and marked the centreline. I
then drilled a hole (slightly offset for part thickness) to allow the nib of
a Sharpie pen to protrude. Then slid scrap piece along with the Sharpie in
hole - perfect centreline.
Wish I 'd discovered it earlier, when doing the Tailcone J-channels.
Indran Chelvanayagam
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Centreline marking on J-channels |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <jim@combsfive.com>
Excellent idea.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Centreline marking on J-channels |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Now THAT's a tip that would be nice for the new builders! I ended up
doing it the hard way, but this is pretty genius of you Indran.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current section: Engine Hookups
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Indran Chelvanayagam wrote:
> Was doing the wing J-channels today, and thought of a novel way to mark
> the centreline - see the photos. For the image impaired, I took a scrap
> piece of J-channel, nested it against another J-channel, and marked the
> centreline. I then drilled a hole (slightly offset for part
> thickness) to allow the nib of a Sharpie pen to protrude. Then slid
> scrap piece along with the Sharpie in hole - perfect centreline.
>
> Wish I 'd discovered it earlier, when doing the Tailcone J-channels.
>
> Indran Chelvanayagam
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | J-channel Tips for Tim's Website |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Kirkland" <jskirkland@webpipe.net>
When I drilled the F-1047's, it occurred to me that it would have been
easier to just lay the skin on the benchtop and drill it that way, instead
of having the tailcone clecoed together up on sawhorses. I found the F-1047E
hard to drill because I couldn't put one arm up and over to hold the back
side of the J-channel and get my head down low enough to see the line
through the skin hole. I had a nearby RV-4 builder come over and help me. I
hit his hand with the drill bit one time when coming through. He thought he
knew where his hand was. After he left, when doing the F-1047D, I punched
through and drilled through a fingernail into my finger. I thought I knew
where my hand was. Sure would have been easier with just the skin and
stiffener on the table top. Looking ahead to the wings, I plan to lay out a
line and go through the skin holes. I'm not going to mess with the spar and
the "don't drill these holes" warning in the plans. Too confusing.
John Kirkland
#40333
Sec 10 - Tailcone
Wing kit inventoried
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: B&C oil filter |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
You need to purchase the extension to make it work. They offer three
sizes if I remember right and it is the middle size that works (1.4")
Hope that helps.
Scott Schmidt
sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: B&C oil filter
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hey Gary, hope the weather down there is treating you well. It's just
starting to get cold here finally, and there's still no sticking
snow...well, maybe a little after today.
Anyway, I think maybe Scott Schmidt has the B&C adapter and he
had to get an extension for it, if I remember right. Other than
that, I think it looks like it'll work well.
http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/565366/5/27297876
http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/565366/2/23756135
I myself am using the standard straight-out model, but will evaluate
after I fly the time off and see if there's a good place to put
on an ADC remote-mount filter. I liked my last one a lot, and taking
it off without going upside down was handy for keeping things clean.
I may just stick with what I have though...I'll change 2 changes
on it before I look elsewhere.
Good luck with your build...I'm sure you're glad to be back there
building again.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Current section: Engine Hookups
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Gary Specketer wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Gary Specketer"
<speckter@comcast.net>
>
>
> I bought an engine that had a B&C oil filter adapter on it. I got my
motor
> mount this week and held it up to the motor and it appears to hit the
filter
> with the diagional tube.
> Has anyone put a B&C filter adapter on their plane and did they have a
> conflict?
> Also it apears that the same tube is very close to the vent on the
engine.
> Any feedback about that.
> Gary
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Rick, If I understand your response correctly... you are suggesting the introduction
of Chinese made, substandard (defective - non aviation grade) hardware
in the temporary assembly of aircraft components. Contrary to some perceptions,
Home Depot and Lowes do not currently purchase or offer aviation grade products
- yet.
In the Airline/Air Carrier industry, even finding such defective units within the
hangar brings on significant financial penalties ($1,000 per piece of hardware
- nut, washer or bolt) and potential termination of employment from the Feds
and my bosses. In the certified (Part 23) arena, as an A & P there must be
steps taken to insure that such defective units cannot be overlooked and inadvertently
used beyond temporary rigging... hence why clecos are so ugly.. no one
can mistake their use. Leave it to the homeowners and do it yourselfers.
You raise a potentially dangerous and interesting question to na=EFve builders,
the DARs and VANS employees that read of such a process. It's true that automotive
electrical connectors, automotive clamps and automotive bolts make it into
Experimental builds by some economically focused builders. Didn't the fact
that the bolt did not initially fit ("slipped nicely") and required a manual
rework on your part register with you?
For those reading this list that do not know the differences and the risks, spend
some time researching with your DAR if they will buy off such a practice.
If not, think why is there such a policy. Say it isn't so Rick.
John - $00.02
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
John,
This is just to hold the fuse together during assembly...You still think you need
to use close tolerance for that reason? I'm not slamming your post, just curious,
I thought you might have thought the question was regarding final assembly.
My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the center spar holes for this
part of the assembly. But I will admit using a scotchbrite pad to make sure
excess burrs and such were removed from the bolts. No anodizing was removed or
damage to the holes.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 10
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| Subject: | Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
Thanks to all of you for your responses to my question.
I ended up using the actual hardware for the temporary install. After I removed
the bolts there was some discoloration on the shanks of some of them indicating
that the coating on the bolt had been rubbed off. The holes themselves
looked fine. I think the coating would have rubbed off during the final install
anyway because some of the fit is very tight. I think I will put some proseal
in the holes during final assembly to provide a barrier between the steel
and the aluminum.
The fit is tight enough that one notices the difference in fit from one bolt
to the other. I ended up switching some bolts around trying to put the ones with
the smaller diameter in to the smaller diameter holes. I am probably talking
about only a few thousands variation in diameter but it is definitely noticeable.Two
of the holes were too tight to fit a bolt into thus I assebled it with
only 14 out of the 16 bolts thinking that with 14 close tolerance bolts installed
I definitely had good alignment By the way, the threaded area is definitely
smaller in diameter.
I did all this with the thought that if I mess up the bolts I will get new ones.
I will most likely replaces the lock nuts for the final assembly. I might
order a few extra bolts and replace the ones that have the discoloration. Don't
know what they cost but I don't think these bolts are cheap. I will call
up Vans on Monday and find out.
In all this I have been more concerned with damaging the holes in the wing carrythrough
spars than the bolts as the bolt are easily replaced.
The two 3/8 inch bolts are not that effective in carrying load in such a thick
piece specially since the are next to much thicker 9/16 inch bolts. The only
reason I can think of for this design is that they are trying to transfer the
load more gradually from the wing spar into the carrythough structure as typically
the first and last bolts get more than their share of the load. This makes
me think that the designers might have been worried about fatigue at this
joint so I don't want any scratches in those holes that might decrease the fatigue
life. By the way, all this is just an opinion as I don't have any info
from Vans.
As far as the bolts themselves these are 160 ksi bolts and they are considerably
stronger than anything one finds at Home Depot. The close tolerance on the
bolts and holes ensure that all bolts pick up load and none of them are overloaded
which could lead to a fatigue problem I don't think anyone here intended
to use any hardware other than what Vans calls for. I did however find some
bolts at Ace Hardware that looked very similar to the ones Vans provides (although
they were not long enough) and it would be easy to mix them up if one was
not carefull during final assembly.
Niko
40188
"John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick Rick, If I understand your
response correctly you are suggesting the introduction of Chinese made, substandard
(defective non aviation grade) hardware in the temporary assembly of
aircraft components. Contrary to some perceptions, Home Depot and Lowes do not
currently purchase or offer aviation grade products - yet.
In the Airline/Air Carrier industry, even finding such defective units within
the hangar brings on significant financial penalties ($1,000 per piece of hardware
nut, washer or bolt) and potential termination of employment from the Feds
and my bosses. In the certified (Part 23) arena, as an A & P there must be
steps taken to insure that such defective units cannot be overlooked and inadvertently
used beyond temporary rigging hence why clecos are so ugly.. no one
can mistake their use. Leave it to the homeowners and do it yourselfers.
You raise a potentially dangerous and interesting question to nave builders,
the DARs and VANS employees that read of such a process. Its true that automotive
electrical connectors, automotive clamps and automotive bolts make it into
Experimental builds by some economically focused builders. Didnt the fact that
the bolt did not initially fit (slipped nicely) and required a manual rework
on your part register with you?
For those reading this list that do not know the differences and the risks, spend
some time researching with your DAR if they will buy off such a practice.
If not, think why is there such a policy. Say it isnt so Rick.
John - $00.02
DO NOT ARCHIVE
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
John,
This is just to hold the fuse together during assembly...You still think you
need to use close tolerance for that reason? I'm not slamming your post, just
curious, I thought you might have thought the question was regarding final
assembly.
My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the center spar holes for
this part of the assembly. But I will admit using a scotchbrite pad to make sure
excess burrs and such were removed from the bolts. No anodizing was removed
or damage to the holes.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
==================================== ==================================== ====================================
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
A way to solve the non aviation hardware problem is mark anything that is not AN/MS
hardware with multiple red Xs permanent marker
----- Original Message -----
From: Nikolaos Napoli
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
Thanks to all of you for your responses to my question.
I ended up using the actual hardware for the temporary install. After I removed
the bolts there was some discoloration on the shanks of some of them indicating
that the coating on the bolt had been rubbed off. The holes themselves
looked fine. I think the coating would have rubbed off during the final install
anyway because some of the fit is very tight. I think I will put some proseal
in the holes during final assembly to provide a barrier between the steel
and the aluminum.
The fit is tight enough that one notices the difference in fit from one bolt
to the other. I ended up switching some bolts around trying to put the ones with
the smaller diameter in to the smaller diameter holes. I am probably talking
about only a few thousands variation in diameter but it is definitely noticeable.Two
of the holes were too t ight to fit a bolt into thus I assebled it
with only 14 out of the 16 bolts thinking that with 14 close tolerance bolts installed
I definitely had good alignment By the way, the threaded area is definitely
smaller in diameter.
I did all this with the thought that if I mess up the bolts I will get new ones.
I will most likely replaces the lock nuts for the final assembly. I might
order a few extra bolts and replace the ones that have the discoloration. Don't
know what they cost but I don't think these bolts are cheap. I will call
up Vans on Monday and find out.
In all this I have been more concerned with damaging the holes in the wing carrythrough
spars than the bolts as the bolt are easily replaced.
The two 3/8 inch bolts are not that effective in carrying load in such a thick
piece specially since the are next to much thicker 9/16 inch bolts. The only
reason I can think of for this design is that they are trying to transfer the
load more gradually from the wing spar into the carrythough structure as typically
the first and last bolts get more than their share of the load. This makes
me think that the designers might have been worried about fatigue at this
joint so I don't want any scratches in those holes that might decrease the fatigue
life. By the way, all this is just an opinion as I don't have any info
from Vans.
As far as the bolts themselves these are 160 ksi bolts and they are considerably
stronger than anything one finds at Home Depot. The close tolerance on the
bolts and holes ensure that all bolts pick up load and none of them are overloaded
which could lead to a fatigue problem I don't think anyone here intended
to use any hardware other than what Vans calls for. I did however find some
bolts at Ace Hardware that looked very similar to the ones Vans provides (although
they were not long enough) and it would be easy to mix them up if one was
not carefull during final assembly.
Niko
40188
"John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Rick, If I understand your response correctly. you are suggesting the introduction
of Chinese made, substandard (defective - non aviation grade) hardware
in the temporary assembly of aircraft components. Contrary to some perceptions,
Home Depot and Lowes do not currently purchase or offer aviation grade products
- yet.
In the Airline/Air Carrier industry, even finding such defective units within
the hangar brings on significant financial penalties ($1,000 per piece of hardware
- nut, washer or bolt) and potential termination of employment from the
Feds and my bosses. In the certified (Part 23) arena, as an A & P there must
be steps taken to insure that such defective units cannot be overlooked and
inadvertently used beyond temporary rigging. hence why clecos are so ugly.. no
one can mistake their use. Leave it to the homeowners and do it yourselfers.
You raise a potentially dangerous and interesting question to na=EFve builders,
the DARs and VANS employees that read of such a process. It's true that
automotive electrical connectors, automotive clamps and automotive bolts make
it into Experimental builds by some economically focused builders. Didn't the
fact that the bolt did not initially fit ("slipped nicely") and required a manual
rework on your part register with you?
For those reading this list that do not know the differences and the risks,
spend some time researching with your DAR if they will buy off such a practice.
If not, think why is there such a policy. Say it isn't so Rick.
John - $00.02
DO NOT ARCHIVE
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:03 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
John,
This is just to hold the fuse together during assembly...You still think you
need to use close tolerance for that reason? I'm not slamming your post, just
curious, I thought you might have thought the question was regarding final
assembly.
My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the center spar holes for
this part of the assembly. But I will admit using a scotchbrite pad to make sure
excess burrs and such were removed from the bolts. No anodizing was removed
or damage to the holes.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 12
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| Subject: | Just A Few More Days Left; Lagging Behind Last Year... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
There are just four more days left of this year's List Fund Raiser! Response has
been very good, but we are behind last year as far as the number of people
that have made a Contribution and as a percentage of the total number of subscribers.
Please remember that there isn't any sort of commercial advertising on the Lists
and the *only* means I have of keeping these Lists running through your Contributions
during this Fund Raiser.
Please make a Contribution today!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
Dave, if you are going to use them, I agree... the permanent red marker
is a great way to draw long term attention.
However, before you decide to travel that path, find out from your DAR
what their feelings are in the introduction of non-compliant hardware
into the process. It only takes once and since we are human, that is
why they are prohibited on the Air Carrier shop floor. No room to miss
a single errant component. It also helps that three sets of eyes are
looking for such things before "return to service".
I have a separately strong opinion of improperly factory formed and
cracked alclad ribs or bulkhead pieces being used as "Okay - just build
it." It's just a safety thing. It's not the loss of one single
aircraft but the trend of many which will affect the insurance rates of
all builders that got so clearly overlooked by the plastic plane group
two years ago. It is amazing how quick a pack of builders can accept a
poor procedure as OKAY.
John - $00.02
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
A way to solve the non aviation hardware problem is mark anything that
is not AN/MS hardware with multiple red Xs permanent marker
DO NOT ARCHIVE
=09
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 8:03 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center
Fuselage Attach Bolts
John,
This is just to hold the fuse together during
assembly...You still think you need to use close tolerance for that
reason? I'm not slamming your post, just curious, I thought you might
have thought the question was regarding final assembly.
My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the
center spar holes for this part of the assembly. But I will admit using
a scotchbrite pad to make sure excess burrs and such were removed from
the bolts. No anodizing was removed or damage to the holes.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 14
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| Subject: | Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
I'm with you Rick. I doubt any single builder would forget about temporary bolts
used to attach something as critical as the wings!!
Ron
40187
Fuse
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
John,
This is just to hold the fuse together during assembly...You still think you need
to use close tolerance for that reason? I'm not slamming your post, just curious,
I thought you might have thought the question was regarding final assembly.
My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the center spar holes for this
part of the assembly. But I will admit using a scotchbrite pad to make sure
excess burrs and such were removed from the bolts. No anodizing was removed or
damage to the holes.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
Another consideration is the builders familiarity with AN/NAS/MS hardware. If one
handles it all the time, its very easy to spot Ace is the place bolts (unless
they are grade 8). Probably first time builders without aerospace background
should consider just using the Van's provided hardware and repurchasing new
stuff with Aircraft Spruce if necessary. It takes a little time and planning to
get the good stuff not very expensive.
With regard to the parts cracks or deformities, take a look at the places where
you are told to countersink (rather than dimple) into the skin/longeron in the
plans. You will see that the CS causes a much larger hole in the skin and has
little holding surface. Two places come to mind. The attaching points for the
vertical stab fairing. If you CS the skin into the longeron for a #6 tap you
will see than the CS greatly enlarges the hole in the skin and goes well into
the .125" longeron. When tapped only two or three threads are left to hold the
screw in place. I chose to use button head screws at that point and have the
entire .125" for threads.
A similar procedure of CS through the skin is necessary for the tailcone attachment
because the fuselage longeron is not drilled until the tailbone is attached.
My sheetmetal buddy is locating a tool that will allow back CSing so we will
not CSing through the skin at that location.
----- Original Message -----
From: McGANN, Ron
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
I'm with you Rick. I doubt any single builder would forget about temporary bolts
used to attach something as critical as the wings!!
Ron
40187
Fuse
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Monday, 28 November 2005 2:33 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
John,
This is just to hold the fuse together during assembly...You still think you
need to use close tolerance for that reason? I'm not slamming your post, just
curious, I thought you might have thought the question was regarding final
assembly.
My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the center spar holes for
this part of the assembly. But I will admit using a scotchbrite pad to make sure
excess burrs and such were removed from the bolts. No anodizing was removed
or damage to the holes.
Rick S.
40185
Message 16
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| Subject: | Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
Instead of tapping threads into the .125" longeron, you can mount a nut
plate on the inside of the longeron and stay with the CS screw.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (220 hrs)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 9:15 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
Another consideration is the builders familiarity with AN/NAS/MS hardware.
If one handles it all the time, its very easy to spot Ace is the place bolts
(unless they are grade 8). Probably first time builders without aerospace
background should consider just using the Van's provided hardware and
repurchasing new stuff with Aircraft Spruce if necessary. It takes a little
time and planning to get the good stuff not very expensive.
With regard to the parts cracks or deformities, take a look at the places
where you are told to countersink (rather than dimple) into the
skin/longeron in the plans. You will see that the CS causes a much larger
hole in the skin and has little holding surface. Two places come to mind.
The attaching points for the vertical stab fairing. If you CS the skin into
the longeron for a #6 tap you will see than the CS greatly enlarges the hole
in the skin and goes well into the .125" longeron. When tapped only two or
three threads are left to hold the screw in place. I chose to use button
head screws at that point and have the entire .125" for threads.
A similar procedure of CS through the skin is necessary for the tailcone
attachment because the fuselage longeron is not drilled until the tailbone
is attached. My sheetmetal buddy is locating a tool that will allow back
CSing so we will not CSing through the skin at that location.
----- Original Message -----
From: McGANN, Ron
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
I'm with you Rick. I doubt any single builder would forget about
temporary bolts used to attach something as critical as the wings!!
Ron
40187
Fuse
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Monday, 28 November 2005 2:33 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
John,
This is just to hold the fuse together during assembly...You still
think you need to use close tolerance for that reason? I'm not slamming
your post, just curious, I thought you might have thought the question was
regarding final assembly.
My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the center spar
holes for this part of the assembly. But I will admit using a scotchbrite
pad to make sure excess burrs and such were removed from the bolts. No
anodizing was removed or damage to the holes.
Rick S.
40185
========================================== Some AWESOME Terrific Free
your generous =========================much much
====================================
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Wouldn't a 100 degree reverse countersink work?
<http://www.browntool.com/productselect.asp?ProductID=295>
David McNeill wrote:
> Another consideration is the builders familiarity with AN/NAS/MS
> hardware. If one handles it all the time, its very easy to spot Ace is
> the place bolts (unless they are grade 8). Probably first time
> builders without aerospace background should consider just using the
> Van's provided hardware and repurchasing new stuff with Aircraft
> Spruce if necessary. It takes a little time and planning to get the
> good stuff not very expensive.
>
> With regard to the parts cracks or deformities, take a look at the
> places where you are told to countersink (rather than dimple) into the
> skin/longeron in the plans. You will see that the CS causes a much
> larger hole in the skin and has little holding surface. Two places
> come to mind. The attaching points for the vertical stab fairing. If
> you CS the skin into the longeron for a #6 tap you will see than the
> CS greatly enlarges the hole in the skin and goes well into the .125"
> longeron. When tapped only two or three threads are left to hold the
> screw in place. I chose to use button head screws at that point and
> have the entire .125" for threads.
>
> A similar procedure of CS through the skin is necessary for the
> tailcone attachment because the fuselage longeron is not drilled until
> the tailbone is attached. My sheetmetal buddy is locating a tool that
> will allow back CSing so we will not CSing through the skin at that
> location.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* McGANN, Ron <mailto:ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 27, 2005 5:26 PM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage
> Attach Bolts
>
> I'm with you Rick. I doubt any single builder would forget about
> temporary bolts used to attach something as critical as the wings!!
>
> Ron
> 40187
> Fuse
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of* Rick
> *Sent:* Monday, 28 November 2005 2:33 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage
> Attach Bolts
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
> John,
>
> This is just to hold the fuse together during assembly...You
> still think you need to use close tolerance for that reason?
> I'm not slamming your post, just curious, I thought you might
> have thought the question was regarding final assembly.
>
> My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the center
> spar holes for this part of the assembly. But I will admit
> using a scotchbrite pad to make sure excess burrs and such
> were removed from the bolts. No anodizing was removed or
> damage to the holes.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> ========================================== Some AWESOME
> Terrific Free your generous =========================much much
> ====================================
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts |
Sorry to disagree IF it can be screwed up someone will find a way to do it. Bolts
just a thread or so too short, that's OK, I'll replace them "later". I wish
I could say "we" didn't forget to install new cotter keys because we were out
of the right size at the moment, that's OK we'll put them in "later". Wouldn't
think a single builder would forget cotter keys while installing something as
important rudder pedals cables....WRONG.....(this happened with six sets of
experienced eyes checking "details"). If it aint "right" from the gitgo..don't
to do. KABONG Do Not Archive (GBA & GWB)
----- Original Message -----
From: McGANN, Ron
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2005 4:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
I'm with you Rick. I doubt any single builder would forget about temporary bolts
used to attach something as critical as the wings!!
Ron
40187
Fuse
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Monday, 28 November 2005 2:33 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Section 28 Fwd and Center Fuselage Attach Bolts
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
John,
This is just to hold the fuse together during assembly...You still think you
need to use close tolerance for that reason? I'm not slamming your post, just
curious, I thought you might have thought the question was regarding final
assembly.
My Homedepot (actually Lowes) slipped nicely into the center spar holes for
this part of the assembly. But I will admit using a scotchbrite pad to make sure
excess burrs and such were removed from the bolts. No anodizing was removed
or damage to the holes.
Rick S.
40185
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RE: B&C oil filter |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Russell Daves" <dav1111@cox.net>
ECI http://www.eci2fly.com/pages/price_list.aspx?qt=pg&pcid=519 has an Oil
Filter Adaptor #AEL22772-1 for $179.38 and a 1.4" Extension AEL22776-014 for
$38.95.
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RE: B&C oil filter
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt"
> <sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
>
> You need to purchase the extension to make it work. They offer three
> sizes if I remember right and it is the middle size that works (1.4")
> Hope that helps.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2005 7:19 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RE: B&C oil filter
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Hey Gary, hope the weather down there is treating you well. It's just
> starting to get cold here finally, and there's still no sticking
> snow...well, maybe a little after today.
>
> Anyway, I think maybe Scott Schmidt has the B&C adapter and he
> had to get an extension for it, if I remember right. Other than
> that, I think it looks like it'll work well.
>
> http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/565366/5/27297876
> http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/565366/2/23756135
>
> I myself am using the standard straight-out model, but will evaluate
> after I fly the time off and see if there's a good place to put
> on an ADC remote-mount filter. I liked my last one a lot, and taking
> it off without going upside down was handy for keeping things clean.
> I may just stick with what I have though...I'll change 2 changes
> on it before I look elsewhere.
>
> Good luck with your build...I'm sure you're glad to be back there
> building again.
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current section: Engine Hookups
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> Gary Specketer wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Gary Specketer"
> <speckter@comcast.net>
>>
>>
>> I bought an engine that had a B&C oil filter adapter on it. I got my
> motor
>> mount this week and held it up to the motor and it appears to hit the
> filter
>> with the diagional tube.
>> Has anyone put a B&C filter adapter on their plane and did they have a
>> conflict?
>> Also it apears that the same tube is very close to the vent on the
> engine.
>> Any feedback about that.
>> Gary
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Problem with WD-1002-R |
I have attached a picture, don't know if it will get through. Working on
section 29 of the fuselage kit and Drilled the B-100B, F-1040-R and WD-1002R
as directed. When I disassembled I noticed that the holes in the top flange
of the WD-1002 ran off the edge. Anyone else have this problem? Could not
find anything in the archive.
Rene'
801-721-6080
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