Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:10 AM - Re: Clecos anyone? (Jesse Saint)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: Clecos anyone? (jwik)
3. 06:52 AM - Number of kits sold (Kent Forsythe)
4. 10:20 AM - AOA vs. Stall Warning (Darton Steve)
5. 10:47 AM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (Sean Stephens)
6. 11:15 AM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
7. 11:55 AM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
8. 12:10 PM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (Sean Stephens)
9. 12:24 PM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (like2loop@aol.com)
10. 12:45 PM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (Chris Johnston)
11. 12:47 PM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (Sean Stephens)
12. 12:55 PM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (JOHN STARN)
13. 01:20 PM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/26/05 (EMAproducts@aol.com)
14. 01:23 PM - specific FAR (Darton Steve)
15. 01:36 PM - Re: Vetterman's exhaust clearance. (owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com)
16. 02:48 PM - Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
17. 02:49 PM - Re: specific FAR (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
18. 02:58 PM - Re: specific FAR (William)
19. 03:08 PM - Static line question (Indran Chelvanayagam)
20. 03:08 PM - Re: specific FAR (Marcus Cooper)
21. 03:15 PM - Re: specific FAR (Darton Steve)
22. 03:32 PM - Re: Static line question (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
23. 03:46 PM - Panel (Jim Wade)
24. 04:12 PM - AFS AOA Stall Warning and Wing Drain, (RobHickman@aol.com)
25. 04:13 PM - Re: Panel (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
26. 05:30 PM - Re: Stark Avionics (Mark Chamberlain)
27. 06:50 PM - Re: Panel (DejaVu)
28. 08:24 PM - Range of motion for ailerons - help needed (Eric Panning)
29. 08:58 PM - RV-10 Pilot handook (gengrumpy@aol.com)
Message 1
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What is your serial/builder number? I have been wondering how many they
have sold up 'til now.
Thanks (do not archive)
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Fax: 815-377-3694
I am in Ecuador until May, 2006. If you have questions regarding I-TEC,
please call the office at 352-465-4545. If you would like to talk to me,
please call me at 352-505-1899. This number won't always be on, but it has
voicemail that will get to me in Ecuador.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jwik
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Clecos anyone?
Congratulations!
I too ordered the tail kit last week! I knew it was the plane for me when
It first showed up at Oshkosh. It will be interesting to track your
progress.
This email list is great! I just discovered it a couple weeks ago and have
already learned a lot!
Jay Wik
Jeff Dalton wrote:
After a year of reading, lurking, and dreaming I'll be ordering the -10 tail
kit before the month is over.
All you advanced builders who may be finished with clecos - any interest in
selling some of them? Looking especially for the #40's.
Thanks!
Jeff
p.s. also looking for a pneumatic squeezer .....
"It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the strong
man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The
credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred
by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up
short again and again ... who spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the
best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst,
if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly."
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Clecos anyone? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: jwik <jwik@crary.com>
#40536
kit ordered on 12/19
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Jay,
> What was your builder number last week?
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current section: Panel Wiring
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> jwik wrote:
>
>> Congratulations!
>> I too ordered the tail kit last week! I knew it was the plane for
>> me when It first showed up at Oshkosh. It will be interesting to
>> track your progress.
>> This email list is great! I just discovered it a couple weeks ago
>> and have already learned a lot!
>>
>> Jay Wik
>>
>> Jeff Dalton wrote:
>>
>>> After a year of reading, lurking, and dreaming I'll be ordering the
>>> -10 tail kit before the month is over.
>>>
>>> All you advanced builders who may be finished with clecos - any
>>> interest in selling some of them? Looking especially for the #40's.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> p.s. also looking for a pneumatic squeezer .....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "It is not the critic who counts: Not the man who points out how the
>>> strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them
>>> better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena,
>>> whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives
>>> valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again ... who
>>> spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at the best, knows, in the
>>> end, the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails,
>>> at least he fails while daring greatly."
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Number of kits sold |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kent Forsythe <matronix.rv10@4sythe.com>
For reference, I ordered in February of this year (2005) and I was 40338. That's
200 kits since February. Pretty amazing! Twenty kits per month average.
Kent Forsythe
40338
SB Wings
--> RV10-List message posted by: jwik <jwik@crary.com>
#40536
kit ordered on 12/19
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Jay,
> What was your builder number last week?
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> Current section: Panel Wiring
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> jwik wrote:
>
>> Congratulations!
>> I too ordered the tail kit last week! I knew it was the plane for
>> me when It first showed up at Oshkosh. It will be interesting to
>> track your progress.
>> This email list is great! I just discovered it a couple weeks ago
>> and have already learned a lot!
>>
>> Jay Wik
Message 4
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| Subject: | AOA vs. Stall Warning |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
This is a question for the flying 10s.
Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall
warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall
Warning system if AOA is installed?
Thanks
Steve 40212 Wings (obviously)
__________________________________
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
Not flying, but another question...
I installed the vane stall warning AND the AOA. My reasoning was that
the AOA needs to be calibrated in-flight. So, for first flight I wanted
a "working" stall warning. After the AOA is calibrated and further down
the road I may close up the vane.
Is that reasonable?
-Sean #40303
Darton Steve wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> This is a question for the flying 10s.
>
> Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall
> warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall
> Warning system if AOA is installed?
>
> Thanks
> Steve 40212 Wings (obviously)
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | AOA vs. Stall Warning |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is
activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR
requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve
Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
This is a question for the flying 10s.
Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall
warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall
Warning system if AOA is installed?
Thanks
Steve 40212 Wings (obviously)
__________________________________
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
Message 7
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| Subject: | AOA vs. Stall Warning |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston@popsound.com>
Is this true? Stall warning REQUIRED? I didn't remember the old
GOOSEACAT list of required instrumentation to include a stall warning
device... I'll have to dig into the FARAIM and see. I've already
closed up the stall warning locator holes in both wings, and am going
with AOA only. Not trying to start up a debate, I'm just comfortable
going that way.
cj
#40410
wings
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is
activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR
requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve
Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
This is a question for the flying 10s.
Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall
warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall
Warning system if AOA is installed?
Thanks
Steve 40212 Wings (obviously)
__________________________________
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I've heard of many doing it that way Chris, but that's why I asked the
question...
With AOA only, how does one go without the stall indication during first
flight due to the AOA needing calibration in-flight? Seat of pants? :)
-Sean #40303
Chris Johnston wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> Is this true? Stall warning REQUIRED? I didn't remember the old
> GOOSEACAT list of required instrumentation to include a stall warning
> device... I'll have to dig into the FARAIM and see. I've already
> closed up the stall warning locator holes in both wings, and am going
> with AOA only. Not trying to start up a debate, I'm just comfortable
> going that way.
>
> cj
> #40410
> wings
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:15 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning is
> activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR
> requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
>
> TDT
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:20 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> This is a question for the flying 10s.
>
> Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall
> warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall
> Warning system if AOA is installed?
>
> Thanks
> Steve 40212 Wings (obviously)
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning |
--> RV10-List message posted by: like2loop@aol.com
The usual way to detect a stall is to go to safe altitude, reduce
power and slowly raise the nose while maintaining altitude and while
noting the airspeed. When it stalls (detected by pilot) you now have
the info for the AOA setting. There is NO guarantee that a newly
installed stall horn is calibrated any better. I see NO need to keep a
stall horn as an accurate measuring device for an AOA instrument. -
Steve
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:10:38 -0700
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I've heard of many doing it that way Chris, but that's why I asked the
question...
With AOA only, how does one go without the stall indication during
first flight due to the AOA needing calibration in-flight? Seat of
pants? :)
-Sean #40303
Message 10
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| Subject: | AOA vs. Stall Warning |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston@popsound.com>
This is from the Advanced Control Systems AOApro website under FAQs -
"AOAs for the Legacy and RVs come pre-calibrated so you will have stall
warning, best engine out glide and other performance AOAs from the very
first test flight. Aircraft with pre-calibrated AOAs require a short
verification procedure."
I'll call that plus the SOP (seat of pants) good.
cj
#40410
wings
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I've heard of many doing it that way Chris, but that's why I asked the
question...
With AOA only, how does one go without the stall indication during first
flight due to the AOA needing calibration in-flight? Seat of pants? :)
-Sean #40303
Chris Johnston wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston"
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> Is this true? Stall warning REQUIRED? I didn't remember the old
> GOOSEACAT list of required instrumentation to include a stall warning
> device... I'll have to dig into the FARAIM and see. I've already
> closed up the stall warning locator holes in both wings, and am going
> with AOA only. Not trying to start up a debate, I'm just comfortable
> going that way.
>
> cj
> #40410
> wings
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:15 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning
is
> activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR
> requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
>
> TDT
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton
Steve
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:20 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> This is a question for the flying 10s.
>
> Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall
> warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall
> Warning system if AOA is installed?
>
> Thanks
> Steve 40212 Wings (obviously)
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
Exactly the info I wanted. Thanks Steve.
do not archive.
like2loop@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: like2loop@aol.com
>
> The usual way to detect a stall is to go to safe altitude, reduce
> power and slowly raise the nose while maintaining altitude and while
> noting the airspeed. When it stalls (detected by pilot) you now have
> the info for the AOA setting. There is NO guarantee that a newly
> installed stall horn is calibrated any better. I see NO need to keep a
> stall horn as an accurate measuring device for an AOA instrument. - Steve
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 13:10:38 -0700
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
>
> I've heard of many doing it that way Chris, but that's why I asked
> the question...
>
> With AOA only, how does one go without the stall indication during
> first flight due to the AOA needing calibration in-flight? Seat of
> pants? :)
>
> -Sean #40303
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: AOA vs. Stall Warning |
<43B2DDD2.2020306@cox.net>
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
This leads me to another question. How do you know that the "stall warning
vane" is properly set ?. It's my understanding that they are adjustable so
as to "fit" your airplane BUT are ground adjustable only.
Install it, go fly. Too early-too late ? ?, re-adjust, go fly. Still not
exactly right, re-adjust, go fly. Dang adjusted too far, re-adjust, go fly.
How do you finally determine the "right" adjustment. Yep...by the seat of
your pants.
In N561FS (AOA only) part of the first flight was to simulate landing
attitude & stall speed at altitude. Setting up the AOA required some setup
before the flight & pushing one button, one time inside the airplane as the
"seat of the pants" and the airplane was yelling STALL COMING. Ya gotta set
either one, the AOA is just easier (IMNSHO) to get it right the first time
on the first flight under actual flying conditions. KABONG Do Not
Archive. HAPPY NEW YEAR, YA'LL.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Stephens" <schmoboy@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
>
> Not flying, but another question...
>
> I installed the vane stall warning AND the AOA. My reasoning was that the
> AOA needs to be calibrated in-flight. So, for first flight I wanted a
> "working" stall warning. After the AOA is calibrated and further down the
> road I may close up the vane.
>
> Is that reasonable?
>
> -Sean #40303
>
> Darton Steve wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>>
>> This is a question for the flying 10s.
>>
>> Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall
>> warning? Is there any good reason to install the Stall
>> Warning system if AOA is installed?
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 5 Msgs - 12/26/05 |
RV 10 builders
As everyone who was at OSH in '05 knows Monday night we had a big blow.
Unfortunately, my album of photos was nearly totally destroyed by moisture when
our tents blew down. Many of the photographs were originals and sadly I had
no duplicates. Between this and a computer hard drive failure I have lost a
large number of photos from my customers.
I am unable to contact many due to e-mail address changes, moving etc. If
you have the RiteAngle installed on your aircraft please send me either via
e-mail or postal a copy if you would. I lost many photos going back over 10
years from our R&D days. Thanks in advance!
Sincerely,
Elbie
Elbie Mendenhall
EM Aviation, LLC
13411 NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie, WA 98606
360-260-0772
_www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com/)
Message 14
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Tim,
Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically
speaking:)
Thanks
Steve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and
when stall warning
is
activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet
the FAR
requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
TDT
__________________________________
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Vetterman's exhaust clearance. |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" <sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
Mine was the same. I added 4 revolutions on each spring bolt and it
helps. I am hoping that once I attach the heater hoses it will help a
little bit. I may try to add one more support to stiffen it up. It took
quite a bit of rotation to get mine to touch. One thing I did find was
that the supports that go into the rubber hose were slipping. I really
roughed up the steel supports that go into the hose with course sand
paper and then took a round file and roughed up the inside of the tube.
I then added some friction tape to the outside of the rubber tube to
increase the diameter so I could tighten the clamp more. It really
stiffened it up nicely. If yours rotates, check to see if yours is
slipping as well.
Here are some pictures of my installation.
http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/518426/5/49938673
http://scottandranae.smugmug.com/gallery/518426/6
Scott Schmidt
sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doerr, Ray R
[NTK]
Subject: RV10-List: Vetterman's exhaust clearance.
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
<Ray.R.Doerr@sprint.com>
I installed the vetterman exhaust on the weekend and noticed
that the right heat/muff only has 1/4" clearance to the bottom of the
cowl while the left side has almost 1". Also I was not happy with the
way in whioch the hangers support the heat/muff. They are supported off
to the side of the pipe with a vertical hangar and then an angled
support from there. This make the heat/muff supported fairly well from
going up/down or left/right, but if the heat/muff is twisted which is
easy to do, it changes the clearance all the way around. The only thing
to keep the heat/muff from twisting is the three spring load bolts. No
matter how tight you make these, it is still easy to twist the heat/muff
to the point where the heat/muff will contact the cowl or the bottom of
the fuse. Has anyone else encountered this?
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
Almost done with FWF.
Message 16
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| Subject: | AOA vs. Stall Warning |
I skipped the stall warning tab on mine because I have put in the AoA from Rob.
He is also building a -10 and you can bet he will have the -10 specifically
mapped into the electronics as he does with other models as soon as he is flying.
This will give you base characteristics until you can do a aircraft specific
calibration. I believe the AoA should fulfill any requirements for a stall
warning device.
To me the AoA is a lot more accurate as a stall warning device than the tab.
You also don't see a tab out on the LE of any military aircraft or the big iron
because they use AoA.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Subject: Re: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I've heard of many doing it that way Chris, but that's why I asked the question...
With AOA only, how does one go without the stall indication during first flight
due to the AOA needing calibration in-flight? Seat of pants? :)
-Sean #40303
Chris Johnston wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston"
> --> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
> Is this true? Stall warning REQUIRED? I didn't remember the old
> GOOSEACAT list of required instrumentation to include a stall warning
> device... I'll have to dig into the FARAIM and see. I've already
> closed up the stall warning locator holes in both wings, and am going
> with AOA only. Not trying to start up a debate, I'm just comfortable
> going that way.
>
> cj
> #40410
> wings
> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Dawson-Townsend
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:15 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and when stall warning
> is activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet the FAR
> requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
>
> TDT
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton
> Steve
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 1:20 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: AOA vs. Stall Warning
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> This is a question for the flying 10s.
>
> Is anyone flying with just an AOA and no stall warning? Is there any
> good reason to install the Stall Warning system if AOA is installed?
>
> Thanks
> Steve 40212 Wings (obviously)
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Here you go, but I suppose if we're experimental we get some slack on meeting the
FARs . . .
Note also that even consistent wing buffet can qualify as "stall warning" if occurs
in the correct regime . . .
TDT
-------------------------------------------
23.207 Stall warning.
(a) There must be a clear and distinctive stall warning, with the flaps and landing
gear in any normal position, in straight and turning flight.
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent aerodynamic
qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give clearly distinguishable
indications under expected conditions of flight. However, a visual stall warning
device that requires the attention of the crew within the cockpit is not
acceptable by itself.
(c) During the stall tests required by 23.201(b) and 23.203(a)(1), the stall warning
must begin at a speed exceeding the stalling speed by a margin of not less
than 5 knots and must continue until the stall occurs.
(d) When following procedures furnished in accordance with 23.1585, the stall warning
must not occur during a takeoff with all engines operating, a takeoff continued
with one engine inoperative, or during an approach to landing.
(e) During the stall tests required by 23.203(a)(2), the stall warning must begin
sufficiently in advance of the stall for the stall to be averted by pilot action
taken after the stall warning first occurs.
(f) For acrobatic category airplanes, an artificial stall warning may be mutable,
provided that it is armed automatically during takeoff and rearmed automatically
in the approach configuration.
[Amdt. 23-7, 34 FR 13087, Aug. 13, 1969, as amended by Amdt. 23-45, 58 FR 42159,
Aug. 6, 1993; Amdt. 23-50, 61 FR 5191, Feb. 9, 1996]
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve
Subject: RV10-List: specific FAR
--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Tim,
Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically
speaking:)
Thanks
Steve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and
when stall warning
is
activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet
the FAR
requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
TDT
__________________________________
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
Message 18
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| Subject: | RE: specific FAR |
I was about to ask this same question. It always irks me when folks talk about
FARs without citing the specific reference. It's a learned response after having
to deal with many an A&P/AI who make up FARs on the fly to justify their
billings. If you are citing an FAR in part 23 then my question is --what does
that have to do with an RV? The only other FAR that applies to RVs is part 91--however
I can't imaging what in part 91 would refer to stall warning.
>
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
>Tim,
>Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically
>speaking:)
>Thanks
>Steve
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
>>
>><Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>>
>>
>>I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and
>>when stall warning is activated and an AOA system doesn't
>>necessarily meet the FAR requirements. So your best bet
>>is to have both.
>>
>>TDT
William Curtis
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Static line question |
Guys, this may seem like a stupid question :
There are two static ports on either side of the rear fuse. These need to be
connected to a 'T' piece, then fed forward to the instrument panel. Do the
two tubing arms of the 'T' need to be the same length? IE, does the length
of tubing from each static port to the connector need to be the same length
on both sides?
Although the ports are meant to be 'balanced', I would think that the low
pressures/flow involved would mean that differences in the tubing length are
not significant.
BTW - I'm using the Cleaveland tools static ports with tygon tubing (Mike
Lauritsen - if you're reading this, I received the tubing etc yesterday
after 3 weeks! - mail goes slowly around Christmas in Australia!)
Indran Chelvanayagam
Message 20
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
For what it's worth, I didn't have stall warning or AOA on any of my
previous 3 airplanes (Q-2, Skybolt, RV-6) and the inspectors never brought
anything up about it. AOA would be nice to have, but neither is a FAA
requirement for us homebuilders.
Regarding the reference to Part 23 below: I think this will be useful:
23.1 Applicability.
(a) This part prescribes airworthiness standards for the issue of type
certificates, and changes to those certificates, for airplanes in the
normal, utility, acrobatic, and commuter categories.
Note the lack of 'Experimental' in the above paragraph.
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Subject: RE: RV10-List: specific FAR
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Here you go, but I suppose if we're experimental we get some slack on
meeting the FARs . . .
Note also that even consistent wing buffet can qualify as "stall warning" if
occurs in the correct regime . . .
TDT
-------------------------------------------
23.207 Stall warning.
(a) There must be a clear and distinctive stall warning, with the flaps and
landing gear in any normal position, in straight and turning flight.
(b) The stall warning may be furnished either through the inherent
aerodynamic qualities of the airplane or by a device that will give clearly
distinguishable indications under expected conditions of flight. However, a
visual stall warning device that requires the attention of the crew within
the cockpit is not acceptable by itself.
(c) During the stall tests required by 23.201(b) and 23.203(a)(1), the
stall warning must begin at a speed exceeding the stalling speed by a margin
of not less than 5 knots and must continue until the stall occurs.
(d) When following procedures furnished in accordance with 23.1585, the
stall warning must not occur during a takeoff with all engines operating, a
takeoff continued with one engine inoperative, or during an approach to
landing.
(e) During the stall tests required by 23.203(a)(2), the stall warning must
begin sufficiently in advance of the stall for the stall to be averted by
pilot action taken after the stall warning first occurs.
(f) For acrobatic category airplanes, an artificial stall warning may be
mutable, provided that it is armed automatically during takeoff and rearmed
automatically in the approach configuration.
[Amdt. 23-7, 34 FR 13087, Aug. 13, 1969, as amended by Amdt. 23-45, 58 FR
42159, Aug. 6, 1993; Amdt. 23-50, 61 FR 5191, Feb. 9, 1996]
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darton Steve
Subject: RV10-List: specific FAR
--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Tim,
Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically
speaking:)
Thanks
Steve
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and
when stall warning
is
activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet
the FAR
requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
TDT
__________________________________
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
Message 21
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
Tim,
Now that is specific!
Thanks
Steve
--- Tim Dawson-Townsend <Tdawson@avidyne.com> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim
> Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
> Here you go, but I suppose if we're experimental we
> get some slack on meeting the FARs . . .
>
> Note also that even consistent wing buffet can
> qualify as "stall warning" if occurs in the correct
> regime . . .
>
> TDT
> -------------------------------------------
> 23.207 Stall warning.
> (a) There must be a clear and distinctive stall
> warning, with the flaps and landing gear in any
> normal position, in straight and turning flight.
>
> (b) The stall warning may be furnished either
> through the inherent aerodynamic qualities of the
> airplane or by a device that will give clearly
> distinguishable indications under expected
> conditions of flight. However, a visual stall
> warning device that requires the attention of the
> crew within the cockpit is not acceptable by itself.
>
>
> (c) During the stall tests required by 23.201(b)
> and 23.203(a)(1), the stall warning must begin at a
> speed exceeding the stalling speed by a margin of
> not less than 5 knots and must continue until the
> stall occurs.
>
> (d) When following procedures furnished in
> accordance with 23.1585, the stall warning must not
> occur during a takeoff with all engines operating, a
> takeoff continued with one engine inoperative, or
> during an approach to landing.
>
> (e) During the stall tests required by
> 23.203(a)(2), the stall warning must begin
> sufficiently in advance of the stall for the stall
> to be averted by pilot action taken after the stall
> warning first occurs.
>
> (f) For acrobatic category airplanes, an artificial
> stall warning may be mutable, provided that it is
> armed automatically during takeoff and rearmed
> automatically in the approach configuration.
>
> [Amdt. 23-7, 34 FR 13087, Aug. 13, 1969, as amended
> by Amdt. 23-45, 58 FR 42159, Aug. 6, 1993; Amdt.
> 23-50, 61 FR 5191, Feb. 9, 1996]
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of Darton Steve
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 4:23 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: specific FAR
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Darton Steve
> <sfdarton@yahoo.com>
>
> Tim,
> Can you specify that specific FAR? (:specifically
> speaking:)
> Thanks
> Steve
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim
> Dawson-Townsend"
>
> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> I believe the FAR is pretty specific about how and
> when stall warning
> is
> activated and an AOA system doesn't necessarily meet
> the FAR
> requirements. So your best bet is to have both.
>
> TDT
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/
Message 22
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| Subject: | Static line question |
Morning Indran,
I would try to get them close but it really shouldn't make a difference as it
is static pressure and will balance itself out.
Cheers,
Michael
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Indran Chelvanayagam
Subject: RV10-List: Static line question
Guys, this may seem like a stupid question :
There are two static ports on either side of the rear fuse. These need to be connected
to a 'T' piece, then fed forward to the instrument panel. Do the two tubing
arms of the 'T' need to be the same length? IE, does the length of tubing
from each static port to the connector need to be the same length on both sides?
Although the ports are meant to be 'balanced', I would think that the low pressures/flow
involved would mean that differences in the tubing length are not significant.
BTW - I'm using the Cleaveland tools static ports with tygon tubing (Mike Lauritsen
- if you're reading this, I received the tubing etc yesterday after 3 weeks!
- mail goes slowly around Christmas in Australia!)
Indran Chelvanayagam
Message 23
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If anyone is thinking of using Aerocrafters AKA Lancair avionics you might
want to email me first!!!
They have a great looking panel, but customer service sucks!!!!!!!!!!
Jim
383
Message 24
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| Subject: | AFS AOA Stall Warning and Wing Drain, |
1. The Advanced Flight Systems AOA is sent out pre calibrated for the RV-10
and should work on the first flight.
2. The AOA does meet the requirements for a stall warning with the flaps up
and down. Some systems don't know if the flaps are up or down and therefore
use the most conservative data. The problem is that a a certified stall
warning device can't warn you too early. We have been through the certification
process and our system does meet the requirements.
3. The AFS AOA will display best approach, best glide, and Vy for Flaps UP
AND DOWN.
4. In 5 years I have never got any water out of the top wing port, even
after 5" in one night at Oshkosh this year.
5. The RV guys suggested going to the wire to activate the drain instead of
the black tube. The reason is that the wire requires only a 1/8" dia hole
in the bottom wing skin instead of a 3/8" dia hole. The wire is also lighter
and does not stick out of the wing.
6. How to test an AOA system:
The test procedure would be to approach a stall in 1 "g" flight and note
that the stalling buffet occurred as the AOA indicated critical. Then roll
into a 30 degree bank and approach a stall (accelerated stall). Both displays
should show the critical angle at the higher pre stall buffet speed of 1.155 or
1/cos(bank) times the stalling speed in 1 "g" flight. The straight and level
1 "g" test demonstrates nothing other than you have a good IAS indicator.
In 1 "g" flight and at a fixed GW and CG IAS is AOA.
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems
Message 25
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I know of at least 3 RV-10 people who's panel is way overdue (months) from them.
Hmm, make that four now.
Michael
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wade
Subject: RV10-List: Panel
If anyone is thinking of using Aerocrafters AKA Lancair avionics you might want
to email me first!!!
They have a great looking panel, but customer service sucks!!!!!!!!!!
Jim
383
=09
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Stark Avionics |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer@verizon.net>
Marcus, I got all my avionics through Starks and was pleased to do business
with him. In addition to coordinating my Appch Hub harnesses, I have had to
talk with John on several occasions for minor gliches. Even though he's
busy, he always found a way to respond to calls or E-mails. Mark C. (40016)
Message 27
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|
I placed my order on 01 Sep 05 with the target date of 01 Nov 05 (2 months). I
would leave at least 5 months lead time. Don't count on the target date.
Anh
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 7:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Panel
I know of at least 3 RV-10 people who's panel is way overdue (months) from them.
Hmm, make that four now.
Michael
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Wade
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 5:45 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Panel
If anyone is thinking of using Aerocrafters AKA Lancair avionics you might
want to email me first!!!
They have a great looking panel, but customer service sucks!!!!!!!!!!
Jim
383
Message 28
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| Subject: | Range of motion for ailerons - help needed |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
I am setting up a Trio Avionics autopilot and working
on mounting the wing servo. I need to know the range
of motion for the aileron and cannot find this info in
the wing or fuselage manual. Are the numbers in the
finish kit?
If not, perhaps a flying RV-10 knows the range of
travel in inches for the main pushrod from the
wingroot to bellcrank. Alternatively, if I knew the
angle of the aileron to the top surface of the wing
when full "up" and lower wing surface when full "down"
I could work it out from that.
Also, does the finish kit list control surface
acceptable weight range and CoG values?
Thanks in advance,
Eric
#40150
Message 29
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| Subject: | RV-10 Pilot handook |
--> RV10-List message posted by: gengrumpy@aol.com
Have any of the current -10 flyers put together a pilot operating
handbook yet?
Some of us coming up on first flight would certainly like to plagarize
the work of others.
Grumpy #40404
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