Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:01 AM - Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up (ddddsp1@juno.com)
2. 03:03 AM - Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up (David McNeill)
3. 03:04 AM - Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up (David McNeill)
4. 03:34 AM - Re: Exhaust problem - advice sought (rob kermanj)
5. 04:36 AM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (Marcus Cooper)
6. 04:43 AM - Re: Instrument Panel (RAS)
7. 05:34 AM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (zackrv8)
8. 07:54 AM - Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? (Roman Bukolt)
9. 08:12 AM - Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up (LarryRosen@comcast.net)
10. 08:12 AM - Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? (Bill and Tami Britton)
11. 08:17 AM - Re: Covering removal (James Hein)
12. 08:21 AM - Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
13. 08:36 AM - Dataplate measurements for VAF plate (Tim Olson)
14. 08:41 AM - Re: Exhaust problem - advice sought (Tim Olson)
15. 09:16 AM - Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? (Bill and Tami Britton)
16. 09:55 AM - Answer from Van's Re: bulkhead cracks. (John Gonzalez)
17. 10:50 AM - Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 10:50 AM - Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
19. 10:50 AM - Re: Instrument Panel (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
20. 10:54 AM - Re: Dataplate measurements for VAF plate (Neal George)
21. 10:56 AM - Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? (Rene Felker)
22. 11:00 AM - Re: Dataplate measurements for VAF plate (Neal George)
23. 12:25 PM - Upper firewall (Gary Specketer)
24. 12:34 PM - Re: Upper firewall (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
25. 01:37 PM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (John W. Cox)
26. 01:58 PM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (McGANN, Ron)
27. 03:30 PM - Re: plastic covering removal (Fred Williams, M.D.)
28. 04:02 PM - FWF kit prices (Marcus Cooper)
29. 04:02 PM - Re: Upper firewall (Gary Specketer)
30. 04:49 PM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (John W. Cox)
31. 04:49 PM - Cabin door opening (Marcus Cooper)
32. 05:11 PM - Re: Trim Tab Cable Anchor Bracket (Jon Reining)
33. 06:44 PM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (Rick)
34. 07:11 PM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (McGANN, Ron)
35. 07:22 PM - Pictures of bulkhead cracks (John Gonzalez)
36. 07:39 PM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (John Gonzalez)
37. 07:49 PM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (bob.kaufmann)
38. 07:54 PM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (Rick)
39. 07:55 PM - Re: FWF kit prices (Mike Kraus)
40. 07:57 PM - Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks (John Jessen)
41. 10:27 PM - Elevator counterweight question (Bill and Tami Britton)
42. 11:26 PM - AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods... (Albert Gardner)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up |
I want to thank Larry Rosen for his idea on using the OHM meter to measure the
travel of the fuel senders on the Quickbuild installation. On both tanks originally
I was hitting the vent tube with the sender float. On the left tank there
was not enough room between the vent line and stiffener for the float anyway.
Considered cutting the float back or sticking a bar in the tank and pry the
vent tube over to make room. I did neither.............ended up twisting the
wire holding the float 90 degrees. By doing this the float easily fit between
the stiffener and vent line AND still had full travel. We measured the OHMS
with the sender on the workbench to determine FULL travel. When we got done
positioning them in the tanks as detailed aboved..........we got the same readings
on the OHMS meter.................32 OHMS and 250 OHMS. Thanks again
LARRY R.
DEAN
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
I want to thank Larry Rosen for his idea on using the OHM meter to measure the
travel of the fuel senders on the Quickbuild installation. On both tanks originally
I was hitting the vent tube with the sender float. On the left tank there
was not enough room between the vent line and stiffener for the float anyway.
Considered cutting the float back or sticking a bar in the tank and pry the
vent tube over to make room. I did neither.............ended up twisting the wire
holding the float 90 degrees. By doing this the float easily fit between the
stiffener and vent line AND still had full travel. We measured the OHMS with
the sender on the workbench to determine FULL travel. When we got done positioning
them in the tanks as detailed aboved..........we got the same readings
on the OHMS meter.................32 OHMS and 250 OHMS. Thanks again LARRY R.
DEAN
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Van's original shipment to me had both senders for the left wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel sender mount heads-up
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
>
> Guys:
>
> Remember the fuel tank sender units supplied by Van are two different part
> numbers and are "left and right"
>
>>From page 18-7 second line' "Use part number IE-385B for the left fuel
>>tank;
> use IE F-385C for the right tank."
>
> I'm not sure if this is related to the issue being discussed but a
> possibility at least.
>
> Dick Sipp
> N110DV #40065
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up |
Be sure and bend that 90 into the last half inch of the sender. I examined a friend's
8 and found he has not bent the 90 and as a result would have fishing his
sender from the tanks at some point. Do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: ddddsp1@juno.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel sender mount heads-up
I want to thank Larry Rosen for his idea on using the OHM meter to measure the
travel of the fuel senders on the Quickbuild installation. On both tanks originally
I was hitting the vent tube with the sender float. On the left tank
there was not enough room between the vent line and stiffener for the float anyway.
Considered cutting the float back or sticking a bar in the tank and pry
the vent tube over to make room. I did neither.............ended up twisting
the wire holding the float 90 degrees. By doing this the float easily fit between
the stiffener and vent line AND still had full travel. We measured the
OHMS with the sender on the workbench to determine FULL travel. When we got done
positioning them in the tanks as detailed aboved..........we got the same
readings on the OHMS meter.................32 OHMS and 250 OHMS. Thanks again
LARRY R.
DEAN
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust problem - advice sought |
--> RV10-List message posted by: rob kermanj <rv10es@earthlink.net>
I had welded the holes in past on my RV6. As long as the welder is
skilled and does not put a big glob on it.
rob kermanj
rv10es@earthlink.net
On Feb 5, 2006, at 11:00 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I was almost ready to fire the engine up today. I went to
> install my plugs and found that my EGT probe locations I
> chose on the right half of the engine interfered with my
> sparkplugs. I had left the engine pickled, so I never
> removed the temporary plugs they had in the cylinders, lest
> I lose my oil that was in the cylinders.
>
> So, now I need to move the probes. Repositioning them
> is easy, but has anyone ever had to have old EGT
> probe holes patched up before? Should they
> just weld them up, or will that tend to enlarge them
> instead of filling them? Monday a.m. I'm going to
> get on the phone with an aerospace welding shop, but I just
> thought I'd take a chance here and see if my inbox brings
> me any good news in the a.m.
>
> I would have finished my W&B today and been only about
> 2 hours away from being ready for inspection if I hadn't
> hit this bump.
>
> Tim
> --
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
John,
You may want to check the archives on this, I think several folks hade
the same problem and I vaguely remember someone posting Vans' response (I
don't know what it was though)
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 11:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
I got started on my tail cone this weekend and I found two of my bulkheads
had cracks in the center bend over flange. This flange metal is not used
for anything except to provide some stiffness to the structure. The F 1010
bulkhead had three cracks in one corner and one that nearly went to the web
of the bulkhead.
I will call Van's tomorrow to find out what they say, but my fealing is that
if you can see the split, there my be more that is there which you can't
see. All cracks are atleast 3mm long and some as wide as 1mm at the start.
Any concensus on this. There is so much concern about inadvertently
scratching aluminum for fear of creating weak point, this seems not
acceptable.
If I have to send them back it will probably cost $25-30 bucks and for
what.
John G. 409
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Instrument Panel |
The trimmed rib in the middle of the photograph will not transfer the load along
the same path as the original design. It may be striong as you put it, but that
doesn't mean that it does what it is supposed to do.
Situations like these can, and sometimes do, compromise an aircraft. The middle
forward top rib in particular is at a very inconvenient position, it's very tempting
to cut it or modify otherwise, however, this also the rib that holds the
reinforcing bar for the roof, which in turn acts as a simple roll bar. The
load dissipation will not be the same if the rib is cut, hence the warning in
the manual.
A seperate argument for not cutting this part of the aircraft is one for the purposes
of insurance.If I were to survey this aircraft post impact and found the
forward top fuselage had been compromised I would bring negative advise for
settlement, in particular because theer's a warning in the manual.
Just some thoughts on what seems a simple mod, with potentially hazardous results
when something goes pearshaped.
Marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Instrument Panel
I check that with several avionics shops that service RVs and find that most
are "trimmed" as necessary to make the radios fit. However that does not mean
that the ribs are not reinforced to be stronger than original. You will note in
the pictures I sent that good use was made of the odds and ends of the Z channels
from other parts of the aircraft. The end result is a modified rib that
is at least as strong as the original. The crossbar was not cut and the instrument
panel was machine cut from an .090 2024t3 rather than the supplied .062 sheet.
----- Original Message -----
From: RAS
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Instrument Panel
Hi,
I Seem to recall that it says in the instructions that the ribs behind the
panel should not be cut? This is also the same for the crossbar.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
John,
Can you take a close-up picture of the crack and post it?
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10327#10327
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? |
Protective covering removal
I'm about ready to start work on the enpennage of 40541.
Question
How do I remove a narrowstrip of the plastic covering over the rivet holes without
scratching the surface?
How long can the covering remain on the pieces before it becomes difficult to remove.?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel sender mount heads-up |
Thank you, but I cannot take credit for the idea. It came from someone else on
this list a few months back.
I cannot imagine trying to get through the build without the support of this community.
Larry
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
DO NOT ARCHIVE
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "ddddsp1@juno.com" <ddddsp1@juno.com>
> I want to thank Larry Rosen for his idea on using the OHM meter to measure the
> travel of the fuel senders on the Quickbuild installation. On both tanks
> originally I was hitting the vent tube with the sender float. On the left tank
> there was not enough room between the vent line and stiffener for the float
> anyway. Considered cutting the float back or sticking a bar in the tank and
pry
> the vent tube over to make room. I did neither.............ended up twisting
> the wire holding the float 90 degrees. By doing this the float easily fit
> between the stiffener and vent line AND still had full travel. We measured the
> OHMS with the sender on the workbench to determine FULL travel. When we got
> done positioning them in the tanks as detailed aboved..........we got the same
> readings on the OHMS meter.................32 OHMS and 250 OHMS. Thanks again
> LARRY R.
> DEAN
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
>
From: "ddddsp1@juno.com" <ddddsp1@juno.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel sender mount heads-up
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19192_1139242316_1
I want to thank Larry Rosen for his idea on using the OHM meter to measure the
travel of the fuel senders on the Quickbuild installation. On both tanks originally
I was hitting the vent tube with the sender float. On the left tank there
was not enough room between the vent line and stiffener for the float anyway.
Considered cutting the float back or sticking a bar in the tank and pry the
vent tube over to make room. I did neither.............ended up twisting the wire
holding the float 90 degrees. By doing this the float easily fit between the
stiffener and vent line AND still had full travel. We measured the OHMS with
the sender on the workbench to determine FULL travel. When we got done positioning
them in the tanks as detailed aboved..........we got the same readings
on the OHMS meter.................32 OHMS and 250 OHMS. Thanks again LARRY R.
DEAN
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
--NextPart_Webmail_9m3u9jl4l_19192_1139242316_1--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? |
If you search the archives you'll find that removing strips of the covering is
done with a soldering iron and straight edge. As for how long the stuff can stay
on, I bought kit #40137 over a year ago so it's probably 4+ years old now.
Just last week I started removing the covering from the tailcone skins and it's
no problem. The stuff peels right off. I can tell you that if you put it
in front of some heat for a few seconds it peels off much easier.
Bill Britton
RV-10 Tailcone
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Bukolt
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included?
Protective covering removal
I'm about ready to start work on the enpennage of 40541.
Question
How do I remove a narrowstrip of the plastic covering over the rivet holes without
scratching the surface?
How long can the covering remain on the pieces before it becomes difficult to
remove.?
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: Covering removal |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>How do I remove a narrowstrip of the plastic covering over the rivet
holes without scratching the surface?
It's in the Builder's manual (Section 5M, page 5-6); Specifically it
says to use a soldering iron, with a rounded (dulled) tip
>How long can the covering remain on the pieces before it becomes
difficult to remove.?
No idea... I know an RV-8 builder who is just now taking it off
after 5 years with no problem.
-Jim 40384, Waiting to receive tip tanks
Roman Bukolt wrote:
> Protective covering removal
> I'm about ready to start work on the enpennage of 40541.
> Question
> How do I remove a narrowstrip of the plastic covering over the rivet
> holes without scratching the surface?
> How long can the covering remain on the pieces before it becomes
> difficult to remove.?
Message 12
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| Subject: | Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? |
Sounds like a good Wiki topic!
Bill, how do you figure 4+ years? They started delivering kits in
October of 2003 . . .
TDT
Do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami
Britton
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included?
If you search the archives you'll find that removing strips of the
covering is done with a soldering iron and straight edge. As for how
long the stuff can stay on, I bought kit #40137 over a year ago so it's
probably 4+ years old now. Just last week I started removing the
covering from the tailcone skins and it's no problem. The stuff peels
right off. I can tell you that if you put it in front of some heat for
a few seconds it peels off much easier.
Bill Britton
RV-10 Tailcone
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Bukolt <mailto:conceptmodels@mailbag.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery
Included?
Protective covering removal
I'm about ready to start work on the enpennage of 40541.
Question
How do I remove a narrowstrip of the plastic covering over the
rivet holes without scratching the surface?
How long can the covering remain on the pieces before it becomes
difficult to remove.?
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Dataplate measurements for VAF plate |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Quick request:
If you have the VansAirForce data plate, can you do a hole center
to center up/dn side/side measurement for me? I have mine out
for engraving at Aircraft Engravers now, but there's a chance
I might get my inspection Sunday. So, I'd like to have the
measurement and be able to at least vibration engrave my
own to put in that spot if the inspection happens...then
I could drill the rivets and put the real one on after it
shows.
--
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust problem - advice sought |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I checked on Aircraft Exhaust Technologies website (they do some
of the RV-10 exhaust parts) today and foun this statement:
"321 stainless steel should be welded with 347 filler rod. Often times
not available through local welder's supply, we offer a variety of
thicknesses."
I checked locally and nobody has 347 rods, but have some good news.
Chris at AET said he'd either send me a rod for free or I could
ship him the exhaust and he'd weld them for free. I didn't want
the shipping and turn-around delay (1 day shipping or 3 days
including 2 way shipping to have it done) because I could possibly
get my inspection Sunday (I'll be in Oregon Wed-Sat). Chris
then did the amazing. He knew that I'm only 1.5 hours from
Aerospace Welding in the Twin Cities, and he called them and they
agreed to also do the welding job for free, on the spot, if
I brought it over to them today. I have had previous welding
done at Aerospace Welding with great results, so I know they'll
do a good job.
I just wanted to pass on the results of this dilema, since
both companies are proving their superior customer support.
I should be over there later today and have it back on
the plane tonight...and then I can do the W&B, and maybe
be taxi-ing this week before I leave for Transition Training.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Any good welder familiar with stainless steel can weld up the old holes.
> A really good welder can do it in a way it will be barely detectable.
> IIRC You have two of the big names in exhaust repair within one
> state...Dawley in WI and Aerospace Welding or something like that in MN.
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I was almost ready to fire the engine up today. I went to
>> install my plugs and found that my EGT probe locations I
>> chose on the right half of the engine interfered with my
>> sparkplugs. I had left the engine pickled, so I never
>> removed the temporary plugs they had in the cylinders, lest
>> I lose my oil that was in the cylinders.
>>
>> So, now I need to move the probes. Repositioning them
>> is easy, but has anyone ever had to have old EGT
>> probe holes patched up before? Should they
>> just weld them up, or will that tend to enlarge them
>> instead of filling them? Monday a.m. I'm going to
>> get on the phone with an aerospace welding shop, but I just
>> thought I'd take a chance here and see if my inbox brings
>> me any good news in the a.m.
>>
>> I would have finished my W&B today and been only about
>> 2 hours away from being ready for inspection if I hadn't
>> hit this bump.
>>
>> Tim
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? |
OOPS!! Meant to type 2+ years. My kit was delivered to it's original owner in
Nov./Dec. 2003. I've heard people say that if the covering was left on for long
periods of time that it is hard to remove. Mine has been on for more than
2 years and it's not a problem yet. Maybe it will be eventually but hopefully
I won't have to worry about that.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Dawson-Townsend
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included?
Sounds like a good Wiki topic!
Bill, how do you figure 4+ years? They started delivering kits in October of
2003 . . .
TDT
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami Britton
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:11 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included?
If you search the archives you'll find that removing strips of the covering is
done with a soldering iron and straight edge. As for how long the stuff can
stay on, I bought kit #40137 over a year ago so it's probably 4+ years old now.
Just last week I started removing the covering from the tailcone skins and
it's no problem. The stuff peels right off. I can tell you that if you put
it in front of some heat for a few seconds it peels off much easier.
Bill Britton
RV-10 Tailcone
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: Roman Bukolt
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included?
Protective covering removal
I'm about ready to start work on the enpennage of 40541.
Question
How do I remove a narrowstrip of the plastic covering over the rivet holes
without scratching the surface?
How long can the covering remain on the pieces before it becomes difficult
to remove.?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Answer from Van's re: bulkhead cracks. |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Their suggestion was to file out the cracks. In otherwords, take a 1/16th
drill bit and drill a hole where the crack terminates and then file open the
crack and round it off. He said that they are having many bulkheads made of
this .024 materail show up with these cracks.( in the 10)
I guess if you look at the otherside, the flanges that are used, they have
cutouts all over the place and they are designed that way.
I'll scan some photos taken with my Zoom lense tonight and try to email them
to the group.
Do people feel comfortale with this solution. The cracks do get right up to
the outside bend radius right before turning into the web. You'll see the
photos later.
John G.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? |
This is a good point to remind all of the newer builders to check the archives
before they post questions. Plenty of discussion around this in the past and
no need to take up bandwidth discussing it yet again. Also, please be sure
you are using "do not archive" unless you feel your question or comment is useful
to someone else down the road. Lastly, make sure you change the subject line
to reflect the accurate topic.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman Bukolt
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included?
Protective covering removal
I'm about ready to start work on the enpennage of 40541.
Question
How do I remove a narrowstrip of the plastic covering over the rivet holes without
scratching the surface?
How long can the covering remain on the pieces before it becomes difficult to remove.?
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Fuel sender mount heads-up |
Yep, I had the same thing except mine were in the correct boxes. Ended up re-doing
one of them so it would work. Fun trying to figure out if you have two left
or two right when the boxes are correct. If I had to do tanks again I would
do capacitance just to reduce the likelihood of any future problems.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel sender mount heads-up
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Van's original shipment to me had both senders for the left wing.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel sender mount heads-up
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
>
> Guys:
>
> Remember the fuel tank sender units supplied by Van are two different part
> numbers and are "left and right"
>
>>From page 18-7 second line' "Use part number IE-385B for the left fuel
>>tank;
> use IE F-385C for the right tank."
>
> I'm not sure if this is related to the issue being discussed but a
> possibility at least.
>
> Dick Sipp
> N110DV #40065
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 19
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| Subject: | Instrument Panel |
Anyone think about replacing these ribs with a modified design out of something
like 1/4 6061 or even SS? Dave, maybe this is something your buddy can redesign
for more room as a lot of people are running into this problem. If I have
the free time, and no one else has come up with something else, I may look closer
at alternatives when I get to that point.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAS
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Instrument Panel
The trimmed rib in the middle of the photograph will not transfer the load along
the same path as the original design. It may be striong as you put it, but that
doesn't mean that it does what it is supposed to do.
Situations like these can, and sometimes do, compromise an aircraft. The middle
forward top rib in particular is at a very inconvenient position, it's very tempting
to cut it or modify otherwise, however, this also the rib that holds the
reinforcing bar for the roof, which in turn acts as a simple roll bar. The
load dissipation will not be the same if the rib is cut, hence the warning in
the manual.
A seperate argument for not cutting this part of the aircraft is one for the purposes
of insurance.If I were to survey this aircraft post impact and found the
forward top fuselage had been compromised I would bring negative advise for
settlement, in particular because theer's a warning in the manual.
Just some thoughts on what seems a simple mod, with potentially hazardous results
when something goes pearshaped.
Marcel
----- Original Message -----
From: David McNeill <mailto:dlm46007@cox.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Instrument Panel
I check that with several avionics shops that service RVs and find that most are
"trimmed" as necessary to make the radios fit. However that does not mean that
the ribs are not reinforced to be stronger than original. You will note in
the pictures I sent that good use was made of the odds and ends of the Z channels
from other parts of the aircraft. The end result is a modified rib that is
at least as strong as the original. The crossbar was not cut and the instrument
panel was machine cut from an .090 2024t3 rather than the supplied .062 sheet.
----- Original Message -----
From: RAS <mailto:deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Instrument Panel
Hi,
I Seem to recall that it says in the instructions that the ribs behind the panel
should not be cut? This is also the same for the crossbar.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Dataplate measurements for VAF plate |
Tim -
Mine isn't drilled.
The proposed hole location marks are 4-inch centers top and bottom,
2-1/4-inches on the sides.
Neal
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Quick request:
If you have the VansAirForce data plate, can you do a hole center
to center up/dn side/side measurement for me?
Message 21
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| Subject: | Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included? |
I used a hot soldering iron. I don't know how long you can leave it on. I
have had my kit for a year, and it is about the same.
Have fun with your kit..it has been a great 13 months so far for me.
Rene' Felker
40322
Access pannels in fuselage
N423CF
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman Bukolt
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Ameri-King AK-450 ELT - Remote Battery Included?
Protective covering removal
I'm about ready to start work on the enpennage of 40541.
Question
How do I remove a narrowstrip of the plastic covering over the rivet holes
without scratching the surface?
How long can the covering remain on the pieces before it becomes difficult
to remove.?
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Dataplate measurements for VAF plate |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Neal George" <neal@appaero.com>
Tim -
Mine isn't drilled.
The proposed hole location marks are 4-inch centers top and bottom,
2-1/4-inches on the sides.
Neal
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Quick request:
If you have the VansAirForce data plate, can you do a hole center
to center up/dn side/side measurement for me?
Message 23
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|
I am installing the forward upper framework on the plane that holds the
instrument panel and glare shield. The fire wall has a slight bend in the
top. Is this normal? It looks like it can only go together one way, but I
have never seen a firewall with a bend in the top.
Gary
Message 24
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It has a slight bend forward.
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Specketer
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 2:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Upper firewall
I am installing the forward upper framework on the plane that holds the
instrument panel and glare shield. The fire wall has a slight bend in
the top. Is this normal? It looks like it can only go together one
way, but I have never seen a firewall with a bend in the top.
Gary
Message 25
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| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
A crack is and will continue to be a manifestation of stress. Unless
relieved, it continues to grow. Think of a crack in Plexiglas. Stop
drilling only attempts at a solution. Replacement is always the only
prudent course. Hence the zealous focus on deburring. Nothing will
ever remove a crack, only cosmetic coverup is possible.
Require a non stressed part. To follow the mantra to "Just Build It"
anyway is foolish. This is not as rare as many builders blindly think.
Others should speak up. This is a repeat of the post of a few months
ago.
John - $00.02
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez"
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
I got started on my tail cone this weekend and I found two of my
bulkheads
had cracks in the center bend over flange. This flange metal is not
used
for anything except to provide some stiffness to the structure. The F
1010
bulkhead had three cracks in one corner and one that nearly went to the
web
of the bulkhead.
I will call Van's tomorrow to find out what they say, but my fealing is
that
if you can see the split, there my be more that is there which you can't
see. All cracks are atleast 3mm long and some as wide as 1mm at the
start.
Any concensus on this. There is so much concern about inadvertently
scratching aluminum for fear of creating weak point, this seems not
acceptable.
If I have to send them back it will probably cost $25-30 bucks and for
what.
John G. 409
Message 26
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| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
John,
I have no problem with anyone erring on the side of caution. But the cracks in
the bulkheads were caused during the manufacturing process. The stresses that
caused the cracks have long been removed. If the crack is appropriately treated
(ie smoothed and relieved), why do you think there would be a continuing
problem?
cheers,
Ron
#187 fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
A crack is and will continue to be a manifestation of stress. Unless
relieved, it continues to grow. Think of a crack in Plexiglas. Stop
drilling only attempts at a solution. Replacement is always the only
prudent course. Hence the zealous focus on deburring. Nothing will
ever remove a crack, only cosmetic coverup is possible.
Require a non stressed part. To follow the mantra to "Just Build It"
anyway is foolish. This is not as rare as many builders blindly think.
Others should speak up. This is a repeat of the post of a few months
ago.
John - $00.02
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez"
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
I got started on my tail cone this weekend and I found two of my
bulkheads
had cracks in the center bend over flange. This flange metal is not
used
for anything except to provide some stiffness to the structure. The F
1010
bulkhead had three cracks in one corner and one that nearly went to the
web
of the bulkhead.
I will call Van's tomorrow to find out what they say, but my fealing is
that
if you can see the split, there my be more that is there which you can't
see. All cracks are atleast 3mm long and some as wide as 1mm at the
start.
Any concensus on this. There is so much concern about inadvertently
scratching aluminum for fear of creating weak point, this seems not
acceptable.
If I have to send them back it will probably cost $25-30 bucks and for
what.
John G. 409
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 27
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| Subject: | RE: plastic covering removal |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@cox-internet.com>
I have used a small wood burning tool. Heats up just fine and the
plastic peels away. Just use the side so it doesn't scratch the aluminum.
Fred Williams
drfred@cox-internet.com
40515 working on HS rivets.
Message 28
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I know this is going to sound penny-pinching, but does anyone know why the
Lord Engine Mounts (EA J-3804-20) at Vans cost $20 more apiece than at
Aircraft Spruce? I presume they are the same components and everything else
lines up pretty well for cost so I was pretty surprised. I could better use
the $80 to take my patient wife out to dinner ;)
Also, there is another brand (VIP, Vibration Isolation Products) that
carries a certified equivalent for even less (total savings of $136 over
Van's kit). Does anyone have any experience/info on these?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
Message 29
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Thanks Bob
Do not archive
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US
SSA)
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Upper firewall
It has a slight bend forward.
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Specketer
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 2:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Upper firewall
I am installing the forward upper framework on the plane that holds the
instrument panel and glare shield. The fire wall has a slight bend in the
top. Is this normal? It looks like it can only go together one way, but I
have never seen a firewall with a bend in the top.
Gary
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
Sorry Ron, I don't agree with the simplification as being just cautious
behavior. We have teams of inspectors at the airline using little
Geiger counter like devices, looking for subsurface cracks (non visible
cracks) on all of our Air Carrier aircraft (both metal and composite
surfaces). Those are cracks not visible to the naked eye.
Home builders would be shocked at the effort spent forth on surface
preparation, corrosion removal, crack investigation and remediation.
Anyone selling cracked parts has a cracked customer. Try convincing a
new car purchaser that the cracked windshield or crack in a fender seam
is Okay. Properly executed cutouts, reams, folds and pressed parts are
okay they are not cracks.
Usually the "to be formed" aluminum is untreated, natural Aluminum Clad
(Temper - 0) which after correct forming, is sent to finish which might
include various heat treatments and soak times (for a variety of
conditions - solution heat, Precipitation Heat or Annealing/ Reheat) and
then final assembly. Then of course there is Strain Hardening (Roto
peening). Any good Structural Repair Manual whether General Aviation,
Air Carrier or Owner Built is going to acknowledge a crack is a crack
and it defines the loss of the material's ability to handle stress,
tension, compression, bending, torsion and shear. Loss of ability can
not be regained without additional weight of a patch or removal of the
errant part. Period.
This dog won't hunt in any color. You get what you are willing to
settle for. Our standards are just different. Caution has nothing to do
with it. Most builders don't even read the SRM. Cracks are symbolic of
the improper handling of the material prior to, during or subsequent to
installation. Had anyone mentioned the poor quality of the composite
work lately? As an A & P, there are scores of wives (surviving
spouses... PC correct) just waiting to engage attorneys to chase my
assets for imprudent advise, incorrect actions or inactions. 23 years
as an FAA Pilot Examiner and a current pilot who has lost 8 friends
brings me a different cautiousness to the discussion than first time
homebuilders.
Just go and enjoy the building process. And John Gonzales, contact me
offline for a short list of good books. Imagine the scenario when you
go to sell your cracked aircraft, the new owner must the use an A & P to
maintain it (cause he didn't build it) and the A & P requires the
exterior skin be removed so the errant bulkhead can be brought
Compliant. Or I'm hired by the courts as an expert witness to provide
testimony that established practices were intentionally ignored by the
Owner/Builder. Do it right once, use common sense or stay on the ground
and help keep us flying pilot's insurance rates lower.
If the RV-10s follow the pattern of the Lancairs, Cirrus, Glassairs and
Kitfoxes, then with the scores of aircraft coming online in the next two
years there is a clear potential for significant insurance claims.
These will come from, Prop Strikes, CFIT and flight into IFR conditions
and a host of other pilot induced decisions. The result is that the
surviving pool of builder's still riveting will get to financially cover
those who precede them.
John - KUAO
PS -Remember the Airworthiness Claim that you are building this aircraft
for your education and enjoyment. Buy a book on SRM and read it.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
John,
I have no problem with anyone erring on the side of caution. But the
cracks in the bulkheads were caused during the manufacturing process.
The stresses that caused the cracks have long been removed. If the
crack is appropriately treated (ie smoothed and relieved), why do you
think there would be a continuing problem?
cheers,
Ron
#187 fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com> ]On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
Message 31
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| Subject: | Cabin door opening |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I am installing the doors and discovered the scribe line wasn't too
accurate. I have a question and a request.
First, is everyone maintaining the 1/16th to 1/8th" gap all the way around
the opening or is the gap larger. It seems like a much larger gap based on
some pictures I took at Sun-n-Fun but it's hard to tell for sure.
My request is, could someone post a picture of the inside of the door while
closed to see the gap?
Thanks,
Marcus
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Trim Tab Cable Anchor Bracket |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" <jonathan.w.reining@wellsfargo.com>
He has great customer service too. My anchor brackets showed up a couple weeks
ago all beaten up. It looked like they got caught in UPS' conveyor/sorter system
and then run over by a truck.
I called Dave, and he volunteered to send me a new pair free of charge. Today
on my doorstep: a beautiful pair of anchor brackets.
Thanks Dave!
Jon Reining
Albany, CA
#40514
elevators
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10471#10471
Message 33
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| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
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Message 34
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| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
I take no offence. The question I asked was simple enough. The stresses that caused
the crack have been removed. Why can't the crack be repaired?
I agree that Vans should be providing us defect free parts in the kit. I had a
cracked bulkhead, informed Vans, and they promptly replaced it. None of us (except
perhaps John) has built, or will ever build the perfect airplane. Simple
economics prevent us from always replacing any part with the slightest chip,
scratch or dent with virgin parts. Repairs in accordance with accepted practice
are a part of the build process.
We all take pride in our work and do the best we can based on our backgrounds and
innate ability. These forums are an invaluable source of guidance and inspiration,
even if some posts are 'over the top' and verge on the personal.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Don't feel too bad Ron,
I saw the "John Cox light" when I mentioned I was in the process of using regular
bolts to hold the center spars together instead of the close tolerance bolts
provided in the kit....bottom line was John was right in his answer and is right
on track with this response. I combed over my bulkheads after first seeking
this post months ago and found nothing wrong. I totally understand your reasoning.
If I had found cracks I would rely on Van's to provide the proper fix,
I use John to keep my thinking straight on these questions, cause deep down I
know he is probably right.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
PS- When can I remove some of those bolts? It is needed to get clearence to rivet
the side skins.
do not archive
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 35
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| Subject: | Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little pissed
off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to determine a fix
without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I felt about it. With
something like this, its about the customer's piece of mind, and this is one
case where the clients feelings are right.
Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the longevity
of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort to pull it apart
to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the parts
back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight back, which I
shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to send the new parts,
then it is letter time. It should be letter time anyway and perhaps it will
be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more. What
else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very innocent thing
with potentially huge implications.
John G
Message 36
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| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Ron,
Please do not take it as an insult. Your points are valid and meaningful.
They represent the other side. We need to show all angles of the problem
and I did find your e-mail helpful. There are a lot of factors working here
in building these airplanes, too many to mention. I wish so badly that I
could get 100% results on everything. I even thought about using the first
empennage kit as practice, but I am a still working, no trust fund, have a
daughter and a wife and other commitments in life.
I thank you all and everyone has an opinion which is meaningful to me.
One consideration...simplicity in your panel design will save money for
psychiatric visits...Just kidding.
Thanks,
John G.
>From: "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
>Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 13:36:38 +1030
>
>I take no offence. The question I asked was simple enough. The stresses
>that caused the crack have been removed. Why can't the crack be repaired?
>
>I agree that Vans should be providing us defect free parts in the kit. I
>had a cracked bulkhead, informed Vans, and they promptly replaced it. None
>of us (except perhaps John) has built, or will ever build the perfect
>airplane. Simple economics prevent us from always replacing any part with
>the slightest chip, scratch or dent with virgin parts. Repairs in
>accordance with accepted practice are a part of the build process.
>
>We all take pride in our work and do the best we can based on our
>backgrounds and innate ability. These forums are an invaluable source of
>guidance and inspiration, even if some posts are 'over the top' and verge
>on the personal.
>
>Ron
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
>Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 1:11 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
>
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
>Don't feel too bad Ron,
>
>I saw the "John Cox light" when I mentioned I was in the process of using
>regular bolts to hold the center spars together instead of the close
>tolerance bolts provided in the kit....bottom line was John was right in
>his answer and is right on track with this response. I combed over my
>bulkheads after first seeking this post months ago and found nothing wrong.
>I totally understand your reasoning. If I had found cracks I would rely on
>Van's to provide the proper fix, I use John to keep my thinking straight on
>these questions, cause deep down I know he is probably right.
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>Fuselage
>
>PS- When can I remove some of those bolts? It is needed to get clearence to
>rivet the side skins.
>
>do not archive
>======================================================================================
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts, and have
them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something else
until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about replacing
parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good product
out the door.
Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part arrives. Or deburr
something.
Bob K
40125 Top forward fuselage skin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little pissed
off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to determine a fix
without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I felt about it. With
something like this, its about the customer's piece of mind, and this is one
case where the clients feelings are right.
Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the longevity
of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort to pull it apart
to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the parts
back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight back, which I
shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to send the new parts,
then it is letter time. It should be letter time anyway and perhaps it will
be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more. What
else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very innocent thing
with potentially huge implications.
John G
Message 38
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| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Until I saw your pictures I would have agreed with the stop drill option, It is
OK to do that in some case (don't flame me, look at all the spam cans, F-4's
and B-52's, with stop drilled cracks) but the location of those crack indicate
the material was stretched until it tore. I think there may be more distress
than meets the eye. Good call to replace the part.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
Message 39
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv@wolflakeairport.net>
It is like going to different grocery stores, each has items that are
cheaper and items that cost more than other places.... For reference,
the large aluminum air vents are $20 cheaper at Van's than at AS&S....
So pick and choose.... They both get my business.....
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 Flying
RV-10 Fuselage and engine
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:01 PM
Subject: RV10-List: FWF kit prices
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I know this is going to sound penny-pinching, but does anyone know why
the Lord Engine Mounts (EA J-3804-20) at Vans cost $20 more apiece than
at Aircraft Spruce? I presume they are the same components and
everything else lines up pretty well for cost so I was pretty surprised.
I could better use the $80 to take my patient wife out to dinner ;)
Also, there is another brand (VIP, Vibration Isolation Products) that
carries a certified equivalent for even less (total savings of $136 over
Van's kit). Does anyone have any experience/info on these?
Thanks,
Marcus
40286
do not archive
Message 40
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| Subject: | Tail cone bulkhead cracks |
I find it disconcerting that we are told in the manual to deburr out little
hearts out because a crack can form from the most benign little file or
shear mark, then when a part is shipped with cracks (why was it not
inspected for the cracks to begin with and replaced before shipment?) the
attitude is that it's not a big deal, drill a hole, sand it out and just
build it (I, too, have been told to "don't worry, just build it.). I don't
know. Seems rather an odd disjoint between what is written and what is told
when a part may need replacing. All I know is I'm looking for cracks, am
deburring with a renewed religious fervor, and any defective part goes right
back.
John Jessen
~328 (Tailcone, I think, but now looking for cracks)
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
I take no offence. The question I asked was simple enough. The stresses
that caused the crack have been removed. Why can't the crack be repaired?
I agree that Vans should be providing us defect free parts in the kit. I
had a cracked bulkhead, informed Vans, and they promptly replaced it. None
of us (except perhaps John) has built, or will ever build the perfect
airplane. Simple economics prevent us from always replacing any part with
the slightest chip, scratch or dent with virgin parts. Repairs in
accordance with accepted practice are a part of the build process.
We all take pride in our work and do the best we can based on our
backgrounds and innate ability. These forums are an invaluable source of
guidance and inspiration, even if some posts are 'over the top' and verge on
the personal.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 1:11 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Tail cone bulkhead cracks
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Don't feel too bad Ron,
I saw the "John Cox light" when I mentioned I was in the process of using
regular bolts to hold the center spars together instead of the close
tolerance bolts provided in the kit....bottom line was John was right in his
answer and is right on track with this response. I combed over my bulkheads
after first seeking this post months ago and found nothing wrong. I totally
understand your reasoning. If I had found cracks I would rely on Van's to
provide the proper fix, I use John to keep my thinking straight on these
questions, cause deep down I know he is probably right.
Rick S.
40185
Fuselage
PS- When can I remove some of those bolts? It is needed to get clearence to
rivet the side skins.
do not ========================================== Features Subscriptions
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =========================
====================================
Message 41
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| Subject: | Elevator counterweight question |
On page 9-15 (maybe 9-16, I don't remember) the instructions tell us to install
the elevator counterweights with the listed hardware. The hardware consists
of the 2 bolts (per elevator), two washers on the back side (nut side) and two
nuts. It seems like there should be a washer between the bolt head and the lead
counterweight but the instructions don't show this. Has anybody else installed
washers on the side of the bolt head???
Also, what method are you using to trim the lead counterweights. I used the bandsaw
to rough cut to the line but then had to file it to finish it because the
lead fills up sandpaper, and the grinding wheels. The worst part was the backs
of the 2 counterweights that had to be ground flush to fit inside of the tip
ribs. Probably spent 2 1/2 hours trimming 4 weights today. Anybody got any
secrets??? If there are more of these to do on the plane I'll probably take
them to town and have them milled with a lathe next time!!!
Finally, where can I look to find instructions on using safetywire. I think the
way I'm doing it is correct but would like to see some pictures or written instructions
to confirm.
Bill Britton
RV-10 Elevators finished, about ready to disassemble and deburr/prime tailcone
Message 42
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| Subject: | AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods... |
Get a copy of AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices. I
think it is available on line but a print copy is an indispensable
reference.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
.Finally, where can I look to find instructions on using safetywire. I
think the way I'm doing it is correct but would like to see some pictures or
written instructions to confirm.
Bill Britton
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