Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:18 AM - Re: FWF kit prices (RAS)
2. 02:58 AM - VS -1003 (Paul Walter)
3. 04:24 AM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (Tim Olson)
4. 05:05 AM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (David McNeill)
5. 05:09 AM - Re: Elevator counterweight question (Deems Davis)
6. 06:15 AM - Re: Elevator counterweight question (zackrv8)
7. 06:45 AM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (Tim Olson)
8. 08:11 AM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (Jerry Grimmonpre)
9. 08:41 AM - FW: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409 (John Gonzalez)
10. 09:16 AM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (James Hein)
11. 09:33 AM - Re: FW: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409 (Tim Olson)
12. 10:47 AM - Re: extra hardware and building materials (Dan Masys)
13. 10:57 AM - Re: extra hardware and building materials (Dan Masys)
14. 11:29 AM - TruTrak Roll Servo install (Deems Davis)
15. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: extra hardware and building materials (JOHN STARN)
16. 11:49 AM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (Chris , Susie Darcy)
17. 11:58 AM - Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install (Sean Stephens)
18. 12:06 PM - Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install (Tim Olson)
19. 12:16 PM - FW: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409 (John Gonzalez)
20. 01:26 PM - Re: VS -1003 (John Gonzalez)
21. 01:56 PM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (John Dunne)
22. 02:00 PM - Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install (Dan Masys)
23. 02:33 PM - Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks (zackrv8)
24. 02:49 PM - Re: Elevator counterweight question (Rick)
25. 03:20 PM - Re: Cabin door opening (Byron Gillespie)
26. 04:45 PM - Re: FWF kit prices (Marcus Cooper)
27. 05:00 PM - Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install (Deems Davis)
28. 05:30 PM - Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install (Larry Rosen)
29. 05:34 PM - Re: Cabin door opening (Marcus Cooper)
30. 06:29 PM - Cabin (inside) paint (McGANN, Ron)
31. 07:52 PM - Re: Cabin (inside) paint (David McNeill)
32. 09:16 PM - Re: Cabin (inside) paint (John Dunne)
33. 10:10 PM - Faulty gear leg (Chris , Susie Darcy)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: FWF kit prices |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
Why don't you buy it all seperate and report back to list after a year in
operation. That way all of us know whether or not to stick with FWF-kit or
to purchase seperate (inferior) parts. It is not really worth while I think
to buy seperates, in particular when your talking mounting rubbers. The 540
is a heavy engine and it would be a shame to have saved $25 to find your
engine is sagging an inch after 6 months......
Ever wonder why a lot of these cheaper items rarely show as OEM parts?
on the other hand, if your project is sailing that close to wind that it's
depending on a $80 dinner date with your wife, you should probably buy the
FWF, and. spend the time saved with your wife............never mind the
money :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:00 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FWF kit prices
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
>
> I know this is going to sound penny-pinching, but does anyone know why the
> Lord Engine Mounts (EA J-3804-20) at Vans cost $20 more apiece than at
> Aircraft Spruce? I presume they are the same components and everything
> else
> lines up pretty well for cost so I was pretty surprised. I could better
> use
> the $80 to take my patient wife out to dinner ;)
>
> Also, there is another brand (VIP, Vibration Isolation Products) that
> carries a certified equivalent for even less (total savings of $136 over
> Van's kit). Does anyone have any experience/info on these?
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
> 40286
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 2
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Hi Guys,
I have made a small error on my RV 10 Vertical Stabilizer that I think may be ok
but would like to clarify.
On the VS-1003, I have dimpled the whole way down on each side and not countersunk
the section mentioned on plan. Can I now countersink each hole on VS - 1014-R
and VS - 1014- L or will this weaken the structure ?. Going on the manual
in the section on countersinking and machining I'm not convinced that VS- 1003
should be countersunk as it doesn't seem thick enough. I'm not telling you how
to build the plane, it was just an observation.
Thank you
Paul Walter
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
slows down their building, it's me. But, after making it through
99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.
In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones
you mess up you can buy fairly cheap. Don't get too bent out of
shape about shipping, although for things like this they should
pay it. I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,
and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't
get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by
not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small
hardware orders. Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10
without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,
you're doing pretty good. I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,
but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. ;)
As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times. My advice
is like Bob's, to deburr stuff. When I got totally stuck, I grabbed
a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.
It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build
more bearable.
I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because
generally I agree. I just want to reassure you that you'll make
it though. When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how
many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll
face. That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders
to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start. If you're
the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000
more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear. I've had
a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but
to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes. Most
of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.
So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible. When you
think something isn't right, just push them for a fix. Once, when
I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately
right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.
Eventually the credit appeared. So, they will probably do good for
their builders in most cases. I do agree though that cracked
parts should be addressed when they're found.
Good luck and keep building.
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
bob.kaufmann wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
>
> My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts, and have
> them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something else
> until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about replacing
> parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good product
> out the door.
>
> Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part arrives. Or deburr
> something.
>
> Bob K
> 40125 Top forward fuselage skin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
> To: RV10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>
> Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little pissed
> off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to determine a fix
> without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I felt about it. With
> something like this, its about the customer's piece of mind, and this is one
>
> case where the clients feelings are right.
>
> Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the longevity
> of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort to pull it apart
>
> to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
>
> I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the parts
> back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight back, which I
> shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to send the new parts,
> then it is letter time. It should be letter time anyway and perhaps it will
>
> be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more. What
> else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very innocent thing
> with potentially huge implications.
>
>
> John G
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance
always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may build
again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and decided I needed
a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.
You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due to
fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the first
purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra starter
relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
> slows down their building, it's me. But, after making it through
> 99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.
> In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones
> you mess up you can buy fairly cheap. Don't get too bent out of
> shape about shipping, although for things like this they should
> pay it. I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,
> and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't
> get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by
> not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small
> hardware orders. Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10
> without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,
> you're doing pretty good. I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,
> but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. ;)
>
> As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times. My advice
> is like Bob's, to deburr stuff. When I got totally stuck, I grabbed
> a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.
> It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build
> more bearable.
>
> I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because
> generally I agree. I just want to reassure you that you'll make
> it though. When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how
> many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll
> face. That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders
> to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start. If you're
> the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000
> more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear. I've had
> a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but
> to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes. Most
> of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.
>
> So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible. When you
> think something isn't right, just push them for a fix. Once, when
> I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately
> right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.
> Eventually the credit appeared. So, they will probably do good for
> their builders in most cases. I do agree though that cracked
> parts should be addressed when they're found.
>
> Good luck and keep building.
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> bob.kaufmann wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
>>
>> My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts, and
>> have
>> them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something
>> else
>> until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about replacing
>> parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good
>> product
>> out the door. Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part
>> arrives. Or deburr
>> something. Bob K
>> 40125 Top forward fuselage skin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
>> To: RV10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>>
>> Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little pissed
>> off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to determine a fix
>> without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I felt about it. With
>> something like this, its about the customer's piece of mind, and this is
>> one
>>
>> case where the clients feelings are right.
>>
>> Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the
>> longevity of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort to
>> pull it apart
>>
>> to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
>>
>> I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the
>> parts back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight back,
>> which I shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to send the new
>> parts, then it is letter time. It should be letter time anyway and
>> perhaps it will
>>
>> be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more. What
>> else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very innocent thing
>> with potentially huge implications.
>>
>>
>> John G
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator counterweight question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Bill, the Vixen file works great to trim the lead.
Deems Davis # 406
Wings
http://deemsrv10.com/
Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
> On page 9-15 (maybe 9-16, I don't remember) the instructions tell us
> to install the elevator counterweights with the listed hardware. The
> hardware consists of the 2 bolts (per elevator), two washers on the
> back side (nut side) and two nuts. It seems like there should be a
> washer between the bolt head and the lead counterweight but the
> instructions don't show this. Has anybody else installed washers on
> the side of the bolt head???
>
> Also, what method are you using to trim the lead counterweights. I
> used the bandsaw to rough cut to the line but then had to file it to
> finish it because the lead fills up sandpaper, and the grinding
> wheels. The worst part was the backs of the 2 counterweights that had
> to be ground flush to fit inside of the tip ribs. Probably spent 2
> 1/2 hours trimming 4 weights today. Anybody got any secrets??? If
> there are more of these to do on the plane I'll probably take them to
> town and have them milled with a lathe next time!!!
>
> Finally, where can I look to find instructions on using safetywire. I
> think the way I'm doing it is correct but would like to see some
> pictures or written instructions to confirm.
>
> Bill Britton
> RV-10 Elevators finished, about ready to disassemble and deburr/prime
> tailcone
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator counterweight question |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
Bill,
I clamped the lead in a vice and took a "Sawz-All" to it. Cleaned it up up a
Vixen file.
Should not be anymore lead to cut. The Ailerons on my RV8 have lead pipes in
the leading edge and I assume the Rv10 does too.
Joe
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10562#10562
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I've got extra wire, a couple various aux. battery relays that I tried,
a pretty good pile of blue AN hardware that I bought while trying to
cover for shortages and trying to figure out a better fuel valve
install, pounds and pounds of extra bolts and screws, dozens of extra
nutplates bought because of shortages, hundreds of pop-style rivets
bought because of shortages, a few pounds of AN426/AN470 rivets bought
so I'd never run short again, A good sized roll of E-Glass used for
the windshield fairing, extra firewall material, a brand new pair of
NACA vents that I thought I'd use to try to come up with something
better for the front seat air, the old original fuel valve, and a
bunch more that I can't even remember right now. Some of it I'll
get rid of over time, and I'll probably list on my site what I'd
like to sell off. Some of it as you mention will be kept for
future maintenance. Not much of it would I regret, because I was
saved numerous times from stopping work due to shortages. In fact,
I didn't go far enough. I found last week that I was shorted
on 2 AN310-3 castle nuts for the rudder cables...so today I have
*gasp* temporary nuts in place to hold the cables tightly. I now
have a HUGE order of 12 nuts coming from Aircraft Spruce. In the
final 2 months of building, I probably had 10-15 small parts orders
from Wicks and ACS. At least from ACS you pay shipping only, and
no handling charge...but it makes those 12 nuts nearly double in
price. Buying a minimum of 2 spares of every nut/bolt/washer/screw/
electrical terminal/nutplate/AN Fitting ... will probably save
you many times over, but, you'll still maybe never have everything
you need on hand. Note that in many cases above, it's not practical
to buy only a couple. In the case of screws, your best bet is
often to buy 100 quantities of common screws from Aircraft Spruce.
Then you get a 20% discount on them, and have a good pile on hand.
Just this week I was short on AN509-8R10's and almost panicked that
I was out of them. But, much to my surprise, I had ordered 100
of them from Aircraft Spruce that had just showed up 2 days earlier
and I hadn't put in their trays yet. That's a pretty good save when
you're only <10 days from flying.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
David McNeill wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>
> Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance
> always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may
> build again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and
> decided I needed a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.
>
> You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due
> to fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the
> first purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra
> starter relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:20 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
>> slows down their building, it's me. But, after making it through
>> 99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.
>> In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones
>> you mess up you can buy fairly cheap. Don't get too bent out of
>> shape about shipping, although for things like this they should
>> pay it. I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,
>> and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't
>> get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by
>> not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small
>> hardware orders. Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10
>> without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,
>> you're doing pretty good. I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,
>> but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. ;)
>>
>> As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times. My advice
>> is like Bob's, to deburr stuff. When I got totally stuck, I grabbed
>> a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.
>> It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build
>> more bearable.
>>
>> I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because
>> generally I agree. I just want to reassure you that you'll make
>> it though. When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how
>> many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll
>> face. That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders
>> to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start. If you're
>> the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000
>> more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear. I've had
>> a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but
>> to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes. Most
>> of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.
>>
>> So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible. When you
>> think something isn't right, just push them for a fix. Once, when
>> I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately
>> right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.
>> Eventually the credit appeared. So, they will probably do good for
>> their builders in most cases. I do agree though that cracked
>> parts should be addressed when they're found.
>>
>> Good luck and keep building.
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> bob.kaufmann wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
>>>
>>> My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts,
>>> and have
>>> them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something
>>> else
>>> until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about
>>> replacing
>>> parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good
>>> product
>>> out the door. Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part
>>> arrives. Or deburr
>>> something. Bob K
>>> 40125 Top forward fuselage skin
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
>>> To: RV10-list@matronics.com
>>> Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>>>
>>> Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little
>>> pissed off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to
>>> determine a fix without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I
>>> felt about it. With something like this, its about the customer's
>>> piece of mind, and this is one
>>>
>>> case where the clients feelings are right.
>>>
>>> Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the
>>> longevity of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort
>>> to pull it apart
>>>
>>> to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
>>>
>>> I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the
>>> parts back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight
>>> back, which I shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to
>>> send the new parts, then it is letter time. It should be letter time
>>> anyway and perhaps it will
>>>
>>> be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more.
>>> What else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very
>>> innocent thing with potentially huge implications.
>>>
>>>
>>> John G
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Hi All ...
I'm not in the fray of building the 10, I'm an 8A builder but I can see the
same shortages you all report. When everything is weighed out do you think
it would be better for Van's to draw-up a list of all the fasteners needed
to build their airplanes, publish it and make the paper list a part of the
build shipment. This way you could shop your list at AS or Wicks and never
have another worry about ... inventory shortages. Van's could wash their
hands of counting rivets, sending them out in tiny envelopes and generally
wasting their employees time on stuff there is probably little return on
investment. There are probably other spin-off benefits collective minds can
"see" such as the short length rivet problem being resolved by the merchant
in a more proactive manner. Maybe the competition would foster better
service. Now, it becomes a question of ... could Van's create an accurate
initial list of fasteners?
Food for thought ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I've got extra wire, a couple various aux. battery relays that I tried,
> a pretty good pile of blue AN hardware that I bought while trying to
> cover for shortages and trying to figure out a better fuel valve
> install, pounds and pounds of extra bolts and screws, dozens of extra
> nutplates bought because of shortages, hundreds of pop-style rivets
> bought because of shortages, a few pounds of AN426/AN470 rivets bought
> so I'd never run short again, A good sized roll of E-Glass used for
> the windshield fairing, extra firewall material, a brand new pair of
> NACA vents that I thought I'd use to try to come up with something
> better for the front seat air, the old original fuel valve, and a
> bunch more that I can't even remember right now. Some of it I'll
> get rid of over time, and I'll probably list on my site what I'd
> like to sell off. Some of it as you mention will be kept for
> future maintenance. Not much of it would I regret, because I was
> saved numerous times from stopping work due to shortages. In fact,
> I didn't go far enough. I found last week that I was shorted
> on 2 AN310-3 castle nuts for the rudder cables...so today I have
> *gasp* temporary nuts in place to hold the cables tightly. I now
> have a HUGE order of 12 nuts coming from Aircraft Spruce. In the
> final 2 months of building, I probably had 10-15 small parts orders
> from Wicks and ACS. At least from ACS you pay shipping only, and
> no handling charge...but it makes those 12 nuts nearly double in
> price. Buying a minimum of 2 spares of every nut/bolt/washer/screw/
> electrical terminal/nutplate/AN Fitting ... will probably save
> you many times over, but, you'll still maybe never have everything
> you need on hand. Note that in many cases above, it's not practical
> to buy only a couple. In the case of screws, your best bet is
> often to buy 100 quantities of common screws from Aircraft Spruce.
> Then you get a 20% discount on them, and have a good pile on hand.
> Just this week I was short on AN509-8R10's and almost panicked that
> I was out of them. But, much to my surprise, I had ordered 100
> of them from Aircraft Spruce that had just showed up 2 days earlier
> and I hadn't put in their trays yet. That's a pretty good save when
> you're only <10 days from flying.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>>
>> Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance
>> always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may build
>> again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and decided I
>> needed a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.
>>
>> You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due
>> to fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the first
>> purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra starter
>> relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:20 AM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>>
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>> Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
>>> slows down their building, it's me. But, after making it through
>>> 99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.
>>> In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones
>>> you mess up you can buy fairly cheap. Don't get too bent out of
>>> shape about shipping, although for things like this they should
>>> pay it. I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,
>>> and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't
>>> get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by
>>> not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small
>>> hardware orders. Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10
>>> without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,
>>> you're doing pretty good. I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,
>>> but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. ;)
>>>
>>> As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times. My advice
>>> is like Bob's, to deburr stuff. When I got totally stuck, I grabbed
>>> a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.
>>> It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build
>>> more bearable.
>>>
>>> I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because
>>> generally I agree. I just want to reassure you that you'll make
>>> it though. When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how
>>> many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll
>>> face. That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders
>>> to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start. If you're
>>> the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000
>>> more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear. I've had
>>> a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but
>>> to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes. Most
>>> of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.
>>>
>>> So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible. When you
>>> think something isn't right, just push them for a fix. Once, when
>>> I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately
>>> right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.
>>> Eventually the credit appeared. So, they will probably do good for
>>> their builders in most cases. I do agree though that cracked
>>> parts should be addressed when they're found.
>>>
>>> Good luck and keep building.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>>
>>>
>>> bob.kaufmann wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
>>>>
>>>> My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts, and
>>>> have
>>>> them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something
>>>> else
>>>> until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about
>>>> replacing
>>>> parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good
>>>> product
>>>> out the door. Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part
>>>> arrives. Or deburr
>>>> something. Bob K
>>>> 40125 Top forward fuselage skin
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>>>> Gonzalez
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
>>>> To: RV10-list@matronics.com
>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little
>>>> pissed off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to
>>>> determine a fix without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I felt
>>>> about it. With something like this, its about the customer's piece of
>>>> mind, and this is one
>>>>
>>>> case where the clients feelings are right.
>>>>
>>>> Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the
>>>> longevity of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort
>>>> to pull it apart
>>>>
>>>> to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
>>>>
>>>> I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the
>>>> parts back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight
>>>> back, which I shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to send
>>>> the new parts, then it is letter time. It should be letter time anyway
>>>> and perhaps it will
>>>>
>>>> be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more.
>>>> What else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very
>>>> innocent thing with potentially huge implications.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John G
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 9
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|
| Subject: | Re: FW: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Like you all said, here you go.
Thanks all for your support.
Does this mean someone else gets them down the line....EEEEEEE! Good Grief,
CB.
JOhn
>From: "Scott Risan " <scottr@vansaircraft.com>
>To: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>Subject: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409
>Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:15:09 -0800
>
>Agreed, John....we don't want you having any doubts in your mind when
>this project is finished! We'll get replacements out to you asap.
>
>SAFETY is absolutely the most important factor we consider here at
>Van's. If the parts were not airworthy or easily repaired to be made
>so, we certainly would not recommend using them!
>
>Engineering has looked closely at these parts and the cracks (several
>hundred were repaired here at Van's and the CNC program was changed
>to reduce the flange height in the areas of the cracks to prevent
>future problems). While we can assure you that if the cracks are
>stop drilled or filed out, there will be no structural issues, it is,
>as you said, very important that the builder be comfortable with
>their parts.
>
>We would appreciate you returning the parts as they can be repaired
>here at Van's quite easily. Replacements will leave here asap.
>
>Regards,
>Scott Risan
>General Manager
>Van's Aircraft, Inc.
>
>Forwarded by: "Support" <support>
>Forwarded to: scottr
>Date forwarded: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 06:57:41 -0800
>From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>To: support@vansaircraft.com
>BCC to:
>Subject: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409
>Date sent: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:03:38 -0800
>
>Here are pictures of the cracks I have found on both of these parts.
>I called customer service today and was referred to a technical
>advisor who on explanation of my probelm only said just file it out.
>
>I am unsatisfied with this and will be sending the parts back as
>defective. I will not use these as I am unsure as to just how far
>these fracture propogate into the parts.
>
>I would like to avoid the shipping cost of me sending back the parts
>for you to only throw them in the garbage. I would like to get
>replacements before weeks go by as I needed them last weekend.
>
>One issue that should be considered is that with issue like this,
>involving safety and a customers piece of mind...the customers piece
>of mind is of utmost importance and so to is their safety.
>
>Thank you,
>
>JOhn Gonzalez
>
>
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
>there is probably little return on investment.
That's what the handling charge is for. I'm sure they at least break
even. Customer relations is a hard thing to get right and by providing a
"one-stop shop" for common hardware items the customer is that much happier.
It does help that being a new builder that at least *most* of the
hardware is included, at least enough to build to the plans; After that,
it is up to you to decide what extras you want :)
-Jim 40384
Jerry Grimmonpre wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
> Hi All ...
> I'm not in the fray of building the 10, I'm an 8A builder but I can
> see the same shortages you all report. When everything is weighed out
> do you think it would be better for Van's to draw-up a list of all the
> fasteners needed to build their airplanes, publish it and make the
> paper list a part of the build shipment. This way you could shop your
> list at AS or Wicks and never have another worry about ... inventory
> shortages. Van's could wash their hands of counting rivets, sending
> them out in tiny envelopes and generally wasting their employees time
> on stuff there is probably little return on investment. There are
> probably other spin-off benefits collective minds can "see" such as
> the short length rivet problem being resolved by the merchant in a
> more proactive manner. Maybe the competition would foster better
> service. Now, it becomes a question of ... could Van's create an
> accurate initial list of fasteners?
> Food for thought ...
> Jerry Grimmonpre'
> RV8A
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I've got extra wire, a couple various aux. battery relays that I tried,
>> a pretty good pile of blue AN hardware that I bought while trying to
>> cover for shortages and trying to figure out a better fuel valve
>> install, pounds and pounds of extra bolts and screws, dozens of extra
>> nutplates bought because of shortages, hundreds of pop-style rivets
>> bought because of shortages, a few pounds of AN426/AN470 rivets bought
>> so I'd never run short again, A good sized roll of E-Glass used for
>> the windshield fairing, extra firewall material, a brand new pair of
>> NACA vents that I thought I'd use to try to come up with something
>> better for the front seat air, the old original fuel valve, and a
>> bunch more that I can't even remember right now. Some of it I'll
>> get rid of over time, and I'll probably list on my site what I'd
>> like to sell off. Some of it as you mention will be kept for
>> future maintenance. Not much of it would I regret, because I was
>> saved numerous times from stopping work due to shortages. In fact,
>> I didn't go far enough. I found last week that I was shorted
>> on 2 AN310-3 castle nuts for the rudder cables...so today I have
>> *gasp* temporary nuts in place to hold the cables tightly. I now
>> have a HUGE order of 12 nuts coming from Aircraft Spruce. In the
>> final 2 months of building, I probably had 10-15 small parts orders
>> from Wicks and ACS. At least from ACS you pay shipping only, and
>> no handling charge...but it makes those 12 nuts nearly double in
>> price. Buying a minimum of 2 spares of every nut/bolt/washer/screw/
>> electrical terminal/nutplate/AN Fitting ... will probably save
>> you many times over, but, you'll still maybe never have everything
>> you need on hand. Note that in many cases above, it's not practical
>> to buy only a couple. In the case of screws, your best bet is
>> often to buy 100 quantities of common screws from Aircraft Spruce.
>> Then you get a 20% discount on them, and have a good pile on hand.
>> Just this week I was short on AN509-8R10's and almost panicked that
>> I was out of them. But, much to my surprise, I had ordered 100
>> of them from Aircraft Spruce that had just showed up 2 days earlier
>> and I hadn't put in their trays yet. That's a pretty good save when
>> you're only <10 days from flying.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> David McNeill wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>>>
>>> Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing
>>> maintenance always requires occasional replacement of hardware.
>>> Besides you may build again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the
>>> 10 at OSH and decided I needed a four place aircraft to replace the
>>> TC177RG.
>>>
>>> You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either
>>> due to fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from
>>> the first purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an
>>> extra starter relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers.
>>> etc
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:20 AM
>>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>>>
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>>
>>>> Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
>>>> slows down their building, it's me. But, after making it through
>>>> 99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.
>>>> In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones
>>>> you mess up you can buy fairly cheap. Don't get too bent out of
>>>> shape about shipping, although for things like this they should
>>>> pay it. I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,
>>>> and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't
>>>> get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by
>>>> not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small
>>>> hardware orders. Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10
>>>> without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,
>>>> you're doing pretty good. I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,
>>>> but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. ;)
>>>>
>>>> As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times. My advice
>>>> is like Bob's, to deburr stuff. When I got totally stuck, I grabbed
>>>> a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.
>>>> It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build
>>>> more bearable.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because
>>>> generally I agree. I just want to reassure you that you'll make
>>>> it though. When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how
>>>> many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll
>>>> face. That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders
>>>> to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start. If
>>>> you're
>>>> the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000
>>>> more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear. I've had
>>>> a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but
>>>> to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes. Most
>>>> of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.
>>>>
>>>> So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible. When you
>>>> think something isn't right, just push them for a fix. Once, when
>>>> I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately
>>>> right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.
>>>> Eventually the credit appeared. So, they will probably do good for
>>>> their builders in most cases. I do agree though that cracked
>>>> parts should be addressed when they're found.
>>>>
>>>> Good luck and keep building.
>>>>
>>>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>>>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bob.kaufmann wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann"
>>>>> <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts,
>>>>> and have
>>>>> them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on
>>>>> something else
>>>>> until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about
>>>>> replacing
>>>>> parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a
>>>>> good product
>>>>> out the door. Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part
>>>>> arrives. Or deburr
>>>>> something. Bob K
>>>>> 40125 Top forward fuselage skin
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>>>>> Gonzalez
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
>>>>> To: RV10-list@matronics.com
>>>>> Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little
>>>>> pissed off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to
>>>>> determine a fix without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I
>>>>> felt about it. With something like this, its about the customer's
>>>>> piece of mind, and this is one
>>>>>
>>>>> case where the clients feelings are right.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the
>>>>> longevity of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the
>>>>> effort to pull it apart
>>>>>
>>>>> to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send
>>>>> the parts back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the
>>>>> freight back, which I shouldn't have to. If they charge me for
>>>>> freight to send the new parts, then it is letter time. It should
>>>>> be letter time anyway and perhaps it will
>>>>>
>>>>> be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or
>>>>> more. What else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a
>>>>> very innocent thing with potentially huge implications.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John G
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: FW: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Scott did a great job with that response, IMHO. He
was the one that took care of my engine mount too
and handled that very well from at least the fix for me.
The most important part about his note was:
"the CNC program was changed" which indicates that
they at least have addressed the problem from the source.
Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
John Gonzalez wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
> Like you all said, here you go.
>
> Thanks all for your support.
>
> Does this mean someone else gets them down the line....EEEEEEE! Good
> Grief, CB.
>
> JOhn
>
>
>> From: "Scott Risan " <scottr@vansaircraft.com>
>> To: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>> Subject: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409
>> Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:15:09 -0800
>>
>> Agreed, John....we don't want you having any doubts in your mind when
>> this project is finished! We'll get replacements out to you asap.
>>
>> SAFETY is absolutely the most important factor we consider here at
>> Van's. If the parts were not airworthy or easily repaired to be made
>> so, we certainly would not recommend using them!
>>
>> Engineering has looked closely at these parts and the cracks (several
>> hundred were repaired here at Van's and the CNC program was changed
>> to reduce the flange height in the areas of the cracks to prevent
>> future problems). While we can assure you that if the cracks are
>> stop drilled or filed out, there will be no structural issues, it is,
>> as you said, very important that the builder be comfortable with
>> their parts.
>>
>> We would appreciate you returning the parts as they can be repaired
>> here at Van's quite easily. Replacements will leave here asap.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Scott Risan
>> General Manager
>> Van's Aircraft, Inc.
>>
>> Forwarded by: "Support" <support>
>> Forwarded to: scottr
>> Date forwarded: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 06:57:41 -0800
>> From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>> To: support@vansaircraft.com
>> BCC to:
>> Subject: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409
>> Date sent: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:03:38 -0800
>>
>> Here are pictures of the cracks I have found on both of these parts.
>> I called customer service today and was referred to a technical
>> advisor who on explanation of my probelm only said just file it out.
>>
>> I am unsatisfied with this and will be sending the parts back as
>> defective. I will not use these as I am unsure as to just how far
>> these fracture propogate into the parts.
>>
>> I would like to avoid the shipping cost of me sending back the parts
>> for you to only throw them in the garbage. I would like to get
>> replacements before weeks go by as I needed them last weekend.
>>
>> One issue that should be considered is that with issue like this,
>> involving safety and a customers piece of mind...the customers piece
>> of mind is of utmost importance and so to is their safety.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> JOhn Gonzalez
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: extra hardware and building materials |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Date: 2006/02/07 Tue AM 06:44:28 PST
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I've got extra wire, a couple various aux. battery relays that I tried,
> a pretty good pile of blue AN hardware that I bought while trying to
> cover for shortages and trying to figure out a better fuel valve
> install, pounds and pounds of extra bolts and screws, dozens of extra
> nutplates bought because of shortages, hundreds of pop-style rivets
> bought because of shortages, a few pounds of AN426/AN470 rivets bought
> so I'd never run short again, A good sized roll of E-Glass used for
> the windshield fairing, extra firewall material, a brand new pair of
> NACA vents that I thought I'd use to try to come up with something
> better for the front seat air, the old original fuel valve, and a
> bunch more that I can't even remember right now. Some of it I'll
> get rid of over time, and I'll probably list on my site what I'd
> like to sell off. Some of it as you mention will be kept for
> future maintenance. Not much of it would I regret, because I was
> saved numerous times from stopping work due to shortages. In fact,
> I didn't go far enough. I found last week that I was shorted
> on 2 AN310-3 castle nuts for the rudder cables...so today I have
> *gasp* temporary nuts in place to hold the cables tightly. I now
> have a HUGE order of 12 nuts coming from Aircraft Spruce. In the
> final 2 months of building, I probably had 10-15 small parts orders
> from Wicks and ACS. At least from ACS you pay shipping only, and
> no handling charge...but it makes those 12 nuts nearly double in
> price. Buying a minimum of 2 spares of every nut/bolt/washer/screw/
> electrical terminal/nutplate/AN Fitting ... will probably save
> you many times over, but, you'll still maybe never have everything
> you need on hand. Note that in many cases above, it's not practical
> to buy only a couple. In the case of screws, your best bet is
> often to buy 100 quantities of common screws from Aircraft Spruce.
> Then you get a 20% discount on them, and have a good pile on hand.
> Just this week I was short on AN509-8R10's and almost panicked that
> I was out of them. But, much to my surprise, I had ordered 100
> of them from Aircraft Spruce that had just showed up 2 days earlier
> and I hadn't put in their trays yet. That's a pretty good save when
> you're only <10 days from flying.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> >
> > Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance
> > always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may
> > build again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and
> > decided I needed a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.
> >
> > You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due
> > to fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the
> > first purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra
> > starter relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
> >
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>
> >> Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
> >> slows down their building, it's me. But, after making it through
> >> 99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.
> >> In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones
> >> you mess up you can buy fairly cheap. Don't get too bent out of
> >> shape about shipping, although for things like this they should
> >> pay it. I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,
> >> and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't
> >> get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by
> >> not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small
> >> hardware orders. Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10
> >> without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,
> >> you're doing pretty good. I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,
> >> but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. ;)
> >>
> >> As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times. My advice
> >> is like Bob's, to deburr stuff. When I got totally stuck, I grabbed
> >> a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.
> >> It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build
> >> more bearable.
> >>
> >> I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because
> >> generally I agree. I just want to reassure you that you'll make
> >> it though. When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how
> >> many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll
> >> face. That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders
> >> to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start. If you're
> >> the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000
> >> more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear. I've had
> >> a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but
> >> to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes. Most
> >> of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.
> >>
> >> So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible. When you
> >> think something isn't right, just push them for a fix. Once, when
> >> I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately
> >> right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.
> >> Eventually the credit appeared. So, they will probably do good for
> >> their builders in most cases. I do agree though that cracked
> >> parts should be addressed when they're found.
> >>
> >> Good luck and keep building.
> >>
> >> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >>
> >>
> >> bob.kaufmann wrote:
> >>
> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
> >>>
> >>> My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts,
> >>> and have
> >>> them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something
> >>> else
> >>> until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about
> >>> replacing
> >>> parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good
> >>> product
> >>> out the door. Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part
> >>> arrives. Or deburr
> >>> something. Bob K
> >>> 40125 Top forward fuselage skin
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> >>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
> >>> To: RV10-list@matronics.com
> >>> Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
> >>>
> >>> Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little
> >>> pissed off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to
> >>> determine a fix without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I
> >>> felt about it. With something like this, its about the customer's
> >>> piece of mind, and this is one
> >>>
> >>> case where the clients feelings are right.
> >>>
> >>> Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the
> >>> longevity of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort
> >>> to pull it apart
> >>>
> >>> to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
> >>>
> >>> I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the
> >>> parts back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight
> >>> back, which I shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to
> >>> send the new parts, then it is letter time. It should be letter time
> >>> anyway and perhaps it will
> >>>
> >>> be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more.
> >>> What else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very
> >>> innocent thing with potentially huge implications.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> John G
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: extra hardware and building materials |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
The truth about your homebuilt is that once a project, always a project, even after
it's flying. You may not be building, but you will be running a maintenance
and improvement shop. You'll want a supply of nuts, bolts, pieces of aluminum
sheet and angle, wire, switches and all kinds of little stuff for continuing
to tweak your pride and joy and replace things that get lost during maintenance
or just disappear somehow. My -7A has been flying a little over two years
and I constantly use the hardware supplies for little projects on it.
Recently added a flush head bolt to the nosegear trunnion to keep the bearing spacer
on the axle from turning. Added a switch to the panel labeled "WX RADAR"
to power the NavAir/XM radio setup on an add-on Toshiba PDA. Re-routed a few
wire runs in the engine compartment and added additional support for the alternate
air cable. It just goes on and on, and is part of the fun of owning a
homebuilt.
The RV-10 QB wings and fuse arrived recently, and I was delighted to find I had
left over from the first airplane enough 22 AWG, 18 AWG and 14 AWG wire, flex
conduit, and Mate N Lok connectors to run an extra conduit and wire up the left
wing with pitot heat, a 7 wire TruTrak servo harness, and runs for the nav
lights and strobes on the wingtip. Will have to wait for a resupply from ACS
to wire up the right wing, but it is great having a stock of these kinds of things
on hand at all times.
Keep poundin' them rivets...
-Dan Masys
40448 - closing L wing
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Date: 2006/02/07 Tue AM 06:44:28 PST
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I've got extra wire, a couple various aux. battery relays that I tried,
> a pretty good pile of blue AN hardware that I bought while trying to
> cover for shortages and trying to figure out a better fuel valve
> install, pounds and pounds of extra bolts and screws, dozens of extra
> nutplates bought because of shortages, hundreds of pop-style rivets
> bought because of shortages, a few pounds of AN426/AN470 rivets bought
> so I'd never run short again, A good sized roll of E-Glass used for
> the windshield fairing, extra firewall material, a brand new pair of
> NACA vents that I thought I'd use to try to come up with something
> better for the front seat air, the old original fuel valve, and a
> bunch more that I can't even remember right now. Some of it I'll
> get rid of over time, and I'll probably list on my site what I'd
> like to sell off. Some of it as you mention will be kept for
> future maintenance. Not much of it would I regret, because I was
> saved numerous times from stopping work due to shortages. In fact,
> I didn't go far enough. I found last week that I was shorted
> on 2 AN310-3 castle nuts for the rudder cables...so today I have
> *gasp* temporary nuts in place to hold the cables tightly. I now
> have a HUGE order of 12 nuts coming from Aircraft Spruce. In the
> final 2 months of building, I probably had 10-15 small parts orders
> from Wicks and ACS. At least from ACS you pay shipping only, and
> no handling charge...but it makes those 12 nuts nearly double in
> price. Buying a minimum of 2 spares of every nut/bolt/washer/screw/
> electrical terminal/nutplate/AN Fitting ... will probably save
> you many times over, but, you'll still maybe never have everything
> you need on hand. Note that in many cases above, it's not practical
> to buy only a couple. In the case of screws, your best bet is
> often to buy 100 quantities of common screws from Aircraft Spruce.
> Then you get a 20% discount on them, and have a good pile on hand.
> Just this week I was short on AN509-8R10's and almost panicked that
> I was out of them. But, much to my surprise, I had ordered 100
> of them from Aircraft Spruce that had just showed up 2 days earlier
> and I hadn't put in their trays yet. That's a pretty good save when
> you're only <10 days from flying.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
> David McNeill wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> >
> > Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance
> > always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may
> > build again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and
> > decided I needed a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.
> >
> > You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due
> > to fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the
> > first purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra
> > starter relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
> >
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >>
> >> Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
> >> slows down their building, it's me. But, after making it through
> >> 99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.
> >> In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones
> >> you mess up you can buy fairly cheap. Don't get too bent out of
> >> shape about shipping, although for things like this they should
> >> pay it. I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,
> >> and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't
> >> get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by
> >> not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small
> >> hardware orders. Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10
> >> without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,
> >> you're doing pretty good. I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,
> >> but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. ;)
> >>
> >> As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times. My advice
> >> is like Bob's, to deburr stuff. When I got totally stuck, I grabbed
> >> a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.
> >> It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build
> >> more bearable.
> >>
> >> I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because
> >> generally I agree. I just want to reassure you that you'll make
> >> it though. When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how
> >> many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll
> >> face. That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders
> >> to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start. If you're
> >> the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000
> >> more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear. I've had
> >> a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but
> >> to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes. Most
> >> of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.
> >>
> >> So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible. When you
> >> think something isn't right, just push them for a fix. Once, when
> >> I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately
> >> right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.
> >> Eventually the credit appeared. So, they will probably do good for
> >> their builders in most cases. I do agree though that cracked
> >> parts should be addressed when they're found.
> >>
> >> Good luck and keep building.
> >>
> >> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >>
> >>
> >> bob.kaufmann wrote:
> >>
> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
> >>>
> >>> My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts,
> >>> and have
> >>> them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something
> >>> else
> >>> until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about
> >>> replacing
> >>> parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good
> >>> product
> >>> out the door. Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part
> >>> arrives. Or deburr
> >>> something. Bob K
> >>> 40125 Top forward fuselage skin
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> >>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
> >>> To: RV10-list@matronics.com
> >>> Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
> >>>
> >>> Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little
> >>> pissed off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to
> >>> determine a fix without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I
> >>> felt about it. With something like this, its about the customer's
> >>> piece of mind, and this is one
> >>>
> >>> case where the clients feelings are right.
> >>>
> >>> Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the
> >>> longevity of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort
> >>> to pull it apart
> >>>
> >>> to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
> >>>
> >>> I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the
> >>> parts back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight
> >>> back, which I shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to
> >>> send the new parts, then it is letter time. It should be letter time
> >>> anyway and perhaps it will
> >>>
> >>> be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more.
> >>> What else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very
> >>> innocent thing with potentially huge implications.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> John G
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | TruTrak Roll Servo install |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I just received my roll servo. There are two 8.5x11" photocopys/pics
one of the roll servo and one of the elevator. Are there any
instructions (there weren't any in the package). I believe I can figure
out where Most all of the hardware goes, but it would be nice to have
some reinforcement. Also, I only ordered the servo at this time, the
cable did not come with it. Was it supposed to? I'm thinking about
closing out my wings and would like to have the cable to install.
Deems Davis # 406
Wings
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: extra hardware and building materials |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Thanks Tim for the two DNA's or the untrimmed versions of this thread would
still be getting into archives again & again. Have been flying for more than
four years & still find the need for "left overs". (note the last set of
>>>'s, 5 of the them) I think Dan's post should be in the archives. KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Masys" <dmasys@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: extra hardware and building materials
> The truth about your homebuilt is that once a project, always a project,
> even after it's flying. You may not be building, but you will be running
> a maintenance and improvement shop. You'll want a supply of nuts, bolts,
> pieces of aluminum sheet and angle, wire, switches and all kinds of little
> stuff for continuing to tweak your pride and joy and replace things that
> get lost during maintenance or just disappear somehow. My -7A has been
> flying a little over two years and I constantly use the hardware supplies
> for little projects on it.
>
> Recently added a flush head bolt to the nosegear trunnion to keep the
> bearing spacer on the axle from turning. Added a switch to the panel
> labeled "WX RADAR" to power the NavAir/XM radio setup on an add-on Toshiba
> PDA. Re-routed a few wire runs in the engine compartment and added
> additional support for the alternate air cable. It just goes on and on,
> and is part of the fun of owning a homebuilt.
>
> The RV-10 QB wings and fuse arrived recently, and I was delighted to find
> I had left over from the first airplane enough 22 AWG, 18 AWG and 14 AWG
> wire, flex conduit, and Mate N Lok connectors to run an extra conduit and
> wire up the left wing with pitot heat, a 7 wire TruTrak servo harness, and
> runs for the nav lights and strobes on the wingtip. Will have to wait for
> a resupply from ACS to wire up the right wing, but it is great having a
> stock of these kinds of things on hand at all times.
>
> Keep poundin' them rivets...
>
> -Dan Masys
> 40448 - closing L wing
>
>> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> Date: 2006/02/07 Tue AM 06:44:28 PST
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>> Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>> David McNeill wrote:
>> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>> >
>> > Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:20 AM
>> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>> >>
>> >> Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
>> >> slows down their building, it's me. >> >>
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
>> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann"
>> >>> <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
>> >>>
>> >>> My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts,
>> >>> and have
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> >>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:22 PM
>> >>> To: RV10-list@matronics.com
>> >>> Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
>> >>>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
Vans just sent me a new gear leg as the R one was faulty.....Cost them $300 for
part and $200 for freight downunder........I cant complain.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:21 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
> Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little pissed
> off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to determine a fix
> without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I felt about it. With
> something like this, its about the customer's piece of mind, and this is one
> case where the clients feelings are right.
>
> Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the longevity
> of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort to pull it apart
> to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.
>
> I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the parts
> back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight back, which I
> shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to send the new parts,
> then it is letter time. It should be letter time anyway and perhaps it will
> be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more. What
> else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very innocent thing
> with potentially huge implications.
>
>
> John G
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
I didn't receive anything other than the photos and drawings either,
just gave it a whirl. Turned out ok.
The harness doesn't come with it. You have to either make it yourself
or purchase one. I went with the 1/2 harness for the wing that Stein
makes. It's a very nice harness and you are able to just order the
portion needed to close out the wing.
-Sean #40303 (installing tanks finally)
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> I just received my roll servo. There are two 8.5x11" photocopys/pics
> one of the roll servo and one of the elevator. Are there any
> instructions (there weren't any in the package). I believe I can
> figure out where Most all of the hardware goes, but it would be nice
> to have some reinforcement. Also, I only ordered the servo at this
> time, the cable did not come with it. Was it supposed to? I'm thinking
> about closing out my wings and would like to have the cable to install.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Wings
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Cables don't come with the servos. You can build them or
SteinAir sells them prebuilt.
Use the 2.25" rod on the roll servo. The install is
pretty easy if you have the original install instructions
from their website.
I don't remember the pitch servo rod length, but that
install uses an updated bracket (you ditch the one that
came with the kit) that attaches using the bellcrank
mounting screws/bolts. That install was the easy one of the
two actually.
I still have to put my roll servo rod arm on now that I'm
all rigged up.
Here's a couple of useful links though:
http://www.myrv10.com/files/TruTrak/RV10_Roll_Servo_Torque_Upgrade.jpg
http://www.myrv10.com/files/TruTrak/RV-10PitchInstall_old_original.pdf
http://www.myrv10.com/files/TruTrak/RV-9RollInstall.pdf
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> I just received my roll servo. There are two 8.5x11" photocopys/pics
> one of the roll servo and one of the elevator. Are there any
> instructions (there weren't any in the package). I believe I can figure
> out where Most all of the hardware goes, but it would be nice to have
> some reinforcement. Also, I only ordered the servo at this time, the
> cable did not come with it. Was it supposed to? I'm thinking about
> closing out my wings and would like to have the cable to install.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Wings
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>To: scottr@vansaircraft.com, indigoonlatigo@msn.com
>Subject: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409
>Date: Tue, 07 Feb 2006 11:15:56 -0800
>
>Thank you Scott for your speedy reply.
>
>May I make a suggestion or two for the future. Just a thought!
>
>This seems to be a re occurring problem that even with the CNC program
>change still occurs. So perhaps two things might be instigated in your
>protocol.
>
>1) Perhaps Van's can peel back the corners of the plastic covering and
>check these parts before they leave the shop. If a crack is found, the
>remedial action as described should take place by Van's personel.
>
>2) In addition, a note in the manual about about why there might be a
>relief hole placed in the inner flange so as to not alarm the builder when
>it looks different from other flanges.
>
>Just an idea.
>
>I will send back the parts(2) but the second one is rather long and
>difficult to box up and send without costly shipping.
>
>Thanks,
>
>JOhn Gonzalez
>
>
>>From: "Scott Risan " <scottr@vansaircraft.com>
>>To: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>Subject: Re: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409
>>Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 08:15:09 -0800
>>
>>Agreed, John....we don't want you having any doubts in your mind when
>>this project is finished! We'll get replacements out to you asap.
>>
>>SAFETY is absolutely the most important factor we consider here at
>>Van's. If the parts were not airworthy or easily repaired to be made
>>so, we certainly would not recommend using them!
>>
>>Engineering has looked closely at these parts and the cracks (several
>>hundred were repaired here at Van's and the CNC program was changed
>>to reduce the flange height in the areas of the cracks to prevent
>>future problems). While we can assure you that if the cracks are
>>stop drilled or filed out, there will be no structural issues, it is,
>>as you said, very important that the builder be comfortable with
>>their parts.
>>
>>We would appreciate you returning the parts as they can be repaired
>>here at Van's quite easily. Replacements will leave here asap.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Scott Risan
>>General Manager
>>Van's Aircraft, Inc.
>>
>>Forwarded by: "Support" <support>
>>Forwarded to: scottr
>>Date forwarded: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 06:57:41 -0800
>>From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>>To: support@vansaircraft.com
>>BCC to:
>>Subject: Parts F 1010, and part F 1008 R, RV 10 #40409
>>Date sent: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 20:03:38 -0800
>>
>>Here are pictures of the cracks I have found on both of these parts.
>>I called customer service today and was referred to a technical
>>advisor who on explanation of my probelm only said just file it out.
>>
>>I am unsatisfied with this and will be sending the parts back as
>>defective. I will not use these as I am unsure as to just how far
>>these fracture propogate into the parts.
>>
>>I would like to avoid the shipping cost of me sending back the parts
>>for you to only throw them in the garbage. I would like to get
>>replacements before weeks go by as I needed them last weekend.
>>
>>One issue that should be considered is that with issue like this,
>>involving safety and a customers piece of mind...the customers piece
>>of mind is of utmost importance and so to is their safety.
>>
>>Thank you,
>>
>>JOhn Gonzalez
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Paul,
I am sorry I do not have my manual with me but do not know if anyone
answered your question. Are you speaking about the spar, the spar caps and
the skin junction. If so, as I remember it, the spar was countersunk and
eventhough the material is not very thick, the holes could be close to knife
edged because the spar caps are sandwiching the spar flange. Don't enlarge
the hole by going too deep! Maybe I have this backwards, but this is how I
remember it.
One of the things that seems to happen when one dimples the thin spars is
that the flange angle in relationship to the web changes. You may notice
this when you rivet the spar,skin and caps together. The caps seem to pull
the skin in on the bottom of the VS, but where the spar is only dimpled
above the caps, the skin slightly flares. A consistent contour from VS to
rudder is preferred.
The manual only discusses this spar flange angle change after dimpling when
working on the rear spar of the elevator, much later in the build process.
If I did it again, I would check the angle of the VS spar before dimpling
and make sure it is the same after dimpling.
John G
>From: "Paul Walter" <pdwalter@bigpond.net.au>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: VS -1003
>Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:55:30 +1100
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I have made a small error on my RV 10 Vertical Stabilizer that I think may
>be ok but would like to clarify.
>
>On the VS-1003, I have dimpled the whole way down on each side and not
>countersunk the section mentioned on plan. Can I now countersink each hole
>on VS - 1014-R and VS - 1014- L or will this weaken the structure ?. Going
>on the manual in the section on countersinking and machining I'm not
>convinced that VS- 1003 should be countersunk as it doesn't seem thick
>enough. I'm not telling you how to build the plane, it was just an
>observation.
>
>
>Thank you
>
>
>Paul Walter
Message 21
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| Subject: | Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
Chris,
What was wrong with the leg?
John 40315
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2006 5:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
Vans just sent me a new gear leg as the R one was faulty.....Cost them $300
for part and $200 for freight downunder........I cant complain.
Chris
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
Having just done this the day before yesterday (and I don't even have the roll
servo yet for the -10, but do have a TruTrak in my -7A) I can say that if you
are handy at all with a soldering gun, you can make the roll harness in about
an hour with:
- a female DB9 connector from Radio Shack (or Digikey)
- seven half inch long pieces of 1/8 inch diam heat shrink tubing
- seven pieces of approx 8 ft long wire (2 that are 20AWG and 5 that are 22 AWG,
or all 20 AWG if that's all you have)
- An 8 position Amp Mate N Lok connector, or another DB9 connector for the wing
root.
At the servo location, solder one end of the wires (pins 1 and 9 are the larger
20 AWG wires) to the pins on the DB9 connector, per the wiring diagram listed
below. Slide a little piece of shrink tubing over each pin as it is soldered.
Thread the wires through the snap bushings to the wing root, and attach the
other connector there. Viola. Your done. Testing it (other than a continuity
test on each wire) comes months later...
The plug wiring diagram is on page 13 of the installation manual, which is at:
http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/DigiflightIIinstall.pdf
-Dan Masys
40448
> From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> Date: 2006/02/07 Tue AM 11:28:19 PST
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: TruTrak Roll Servo install
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> I just received my roll servo. There are two 8.5x11" photocopys/pics
> one of the roll servo and one of the elevator. Are there any
> instructions (there weren't any in the package). I believe I can figure
> out where Most all of the hardware goes, but it would be nice to have
> some reinforcement. Also, I only ordered the servo at this time, the
> cable did not come with it. Was it supposed to? I'm thinking about
> closing out my wings and would like to have the cable to install.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Wings
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
After reading about John G's bulkhead cracks, I checked mine over. I guess I got
some of the parts that had stress cracks from hydro-forming the bulkhead and
you can clearly see where Vans' filed them out.
I'm not too worried about it because I have plenty of flange leftover. It seems
that Vans fix to this problem will be to shorten the flange on subsequent
bulkheads.
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=10694#10694
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04188_165.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04189_916.jpg
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator counterweight question |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 25
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| Subject: | Cabin door opening |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1@charter.net>
Hi Marcus:
I have been watching your question and haven't seen any response. I have
just finished the "rough" door fitting and my gap is very irregular. I
spent two weekends working on them and still don't feel satisfied. I may
just mask off the door face, clamp down then fill the gap with epoxy
filler to make more uniform. I'll make that decision when the latch is
completed where I can lock down as it will be in final. I'll also have
to build up some on the outside to make it all work out flush. There are
some areas around the rear window that came in thin of material. I will
have to build up some more locally before gluing the windows.
Sounds like we are pretty close in the build cycle. I have a bit more to
do then jump on the windows. More fun..... If I can find the time, I
would like to drop down and compare notes. You are always welcome to
venture up to Douglas as well.
Do not archive
Byron
#40253 Finishing kit - I hate fiberglass :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cabin door opening
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I am installing the doors and discovered the scribe line wasn't too
accurate. I have a question and a request.
First, is everyone maintaining the 1/16th to 1/8th" gap all the way
around
the opening or is the gap larger. It seems like a much larger gap based
on
some pictures I took at Sun-n-Fun but it's hard to tell for sure.
My request is, could someone post a picture of the inside of the door
while
closed to see the gap?
Thanks,
Marcus
Message 26
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
" Why don't you buy it all seperate and report back to list after a year in
operation. That way all of us know whether or not to stick with FWF-kit or
to purchase seperate (inferior) parts"
I guess I wasn't clear that they are the EXACT SAME PARTS (i.e. not
inferior), just $80 cheaper so I was asking if someone knew of any
differences since they are the SAME PART NUMBER but much cheaper. I used
the AS&S mounts on my Skybolt with an IO-540C4B5 with great success doing
acro. Having built 4 airplanes previously, I concur that there's no point
in saving a few bucks if it compromises safety, but I'd sure like to save
money all things being equal.
Marcus
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RAS
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:14 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: FWF kit prices
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RAS"
<deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
Why don't you buy it all seperate and report back to list after a year in
operation. That way all of us know whether or not to stick with FWF-kit or
to purchase seperate (inferior) parts. It is not really worth while I think
to buy seperates, in particular when your talking mounting rubbers. The 540
is a heavy engine and it would be a shame to have saved $25 to find your
engine is sagging an inch after 6 months......
Ever wonder why a lot of these cheaper items rarely show as OEM parts?
on the other hand, if your project is sailing that close to wind that it's
depending on a $80 dinner date with your wife, you should probably buy the
FWF, and. spend the time saved with your wife............never mind the
money :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:00 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FWF kit prices
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
>
> I know this is going to sound penny-pinching, but does anyone know why the
> Lord Engine Mounts (EA J-3804-20) at Vans cost $20 more apiece than at
> Aircraft Spruce? I presume they are the same components and everything
> else
> lines up pretty well for cost so I was pretty surprised. I could better
> use
> the $80 to take my patient wife out to dinner ;)
>
> Also, there is another brand (VIP, Vibration Isolation Products) that
> carries a certified equivalent for even less (total savings of $136 over
> Van's kit). Does anyone have any experience/info on these?
>
> Thanks,
> Marcus
> 40286
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Wow Dan, Thanks for the instructions! sounds like it shouldn't be too
much of a hassle and another 'learning experience' I think I'll give it
a try. The servo install went pretty straight forward, (didn't end up
with any left over parts!)
Dan Masys wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
>
>Having just done this the day before yesterday (and I don't even have the roll
servo yet for the -10, but do have a TruTrak in my -7A) I can say that if you
are handy at all with a soldering gun, you can make the roll harness in about
an hour with:
>
>- a female DB9 connector from Radio Shack (or Digikey)
>- seven half inch long pieces of 1/8 inch diam heat shrink tubing
>- seven pieces of approx 8 ft long wire (2 that are 20AWG and 5 that are 22 AWG,
or all 20 AWG if that's all you have)
>- An 8 position Amp Mate N Lok connector, or another DB9 connector for the wing
root.
>
>At the servo location, solder one end of the wires (pins 1 and 9 are the larger
20 AWG wires) to the pins on the DB9 connector, per the wiring diagram listed
below. Slide a little piece of shrink tubing over each pin as it is soldered.
Thread the wires through the snap bushings to the wing root, and attach the
other connector there. Viola. Your done. Testing it (other than a continuity
test on each wire) comes months later...
>
>The plug wiring diagram is on page 13 of the installation manual, which is at:
>http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/DigiflightIIinstall.pdf
>
>-Dan Masys
>40448
>
>
>
>>From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>Date: 2006/02/07 Tue AM 11:28:19 PST
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV10-List: TruTrak Roll Servo install
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>>I just received my roll servo. There are two 8.5x11" photocopys/pics
>>one of the roll servo and one of the elevator. Are there any
>>instructions (there weren't any in the package). I believe I can figure
>>out where Most all of the hardware goes, but it would be nice to have
>>some reinforcement. Also, I only ordered the servo at this time, the
>>cable did not come with it. Was it supposed to? I'm thinking about
>>closing out my wings and would like to have the cable to install.
>>
>>Deems Davis # 406
>>Wings
>>http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: TruTrak Roll Servo install |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Deems,
There are a bunch of photos of the install on my website at
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Wings/RollServo/index.html>
Tim has the information on the bolts and washers that are required.
Don't forget the over sized washer to keep the bearing in place if it
ever fails. Get some different length AN-3 hardware. As always the
length you want is the length you do not have.
Larry
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> I just received my roll servo. There are two 8.5x11" photocopys/pics
> one of the roll servo and one of the elevator. Are there any
> instructions (there weren't any in the package). I believe I can
> figure out where Most all of the hardware goes, but it would be nice
> to have some reinforcement. Also, I only ordered the servo at this
> time, the cable did not come with it. Was it supposed to? I'm thinking
> about closing out my wings and would like to have the cable to install.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Wings
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Cabin door opening |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
Byron,
We do seem to be running neck and neck on the project. I would
definitely still like to visit you and your project as well. I have a
friend who has spent a lot of time up there with the B-25 projects and I
keep meaning to check that out as well.
It sounds like we have similar problems and solutions. I was hoping to see
some better pictures of a closed door to get a good idea of what is
required. I've scoured the websites to no avail other than some pictures of
the 220HP prototype and it appears they cut the door frame back pretty far
but I just can't be sure. As for the window, the plans mention using
washers spaced about every 4" to raise the window if required. However, it
seems like that method would leave a gap around most of the window on the
inside that would need to be filled somehow.
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Byron Gillespie
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cabin door opening
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1@charter.net>
Hi Marcus:
I have been watching your question and haven't seen any response. I have
just finished the "rough" door fitting and my gap is very irregular. I
spent two weekends working on them and still don't feel satisfied. I may
just mask off the door face, clamp down then fill the gap with epoxy
filler to make more uniform. I'll make that decision when the latch is
completed where I can lock down as it will be in final. I'll also have
to build up some on the outside to make it all work out flush. There are
some areas around the rear window that came in thin of material. I will
have to build up some more locally before gluing the windows.
Sounds like we are pretty close in the build cycle. I have a bit more to
do then jump on the windows. More fun..... If I can find the time, I
would like to drop down and compare notes. You are always welcome to
venture up to Douglas as well.
Do not archive
Byron
#40253 Finishing kit - I hate fiberglass :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cabin door opening
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I am installing the doors and discovered the scribe line wasn't too
accurate. I have a question and a request.
First, is everyone maintaining the 1/16th to 1/8th" gap all the way
around
the opening or is the gap larger. It seems like a much larger gap based
on
some pictures I took at Sun-n-Fun but it's hard to tell for sure.
My request is, could someone post a picture of the inside of the door
while
closed to see the gap?
Thanks,
Marcus
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Cabin (inside) paint |
Time to paint the cabin. Any opinions on gloss vs satin vs matt? The -10 cabin
is pretty big, any advantages/disadvantages of light vs dark shades etc? I
am a philistine when it comes to color selection, paint schemes, interior design
and other shiela stuff - and I don't think my wife is much better ;-(. I hate
this part. Let me pound them rivets and crimp them wires any day . . .
All suggestions hugely appreciated.
thanks in advance
Ron
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cabin (inside) paint |
Cabin (inside) paintI think we will be going with a gun metal gray semigloss interior;
probably maroon seat belts to match the deep maroon tips,spinner, etc..
Aircraft will be matterhorn white. Panel is powder coat gray. glareshield will
be flat black.
----- Original Message -----
From: McGANN, Ron
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cabin (inside) paint
Time to paint the cabin. Any opinions on gloss vs satin vs matt? The -10 cabin
is pretty big, any advantages/disadvantages of light vs dark shades etc?
I am a philistine when it comes to color selection, paint schemes, interior design
and other shiela stuff - and I don't think my wife is much better ;-(. I
hate this part. Let me pound them rivets and crimp them wires any day . . .
All suggestions hugely appreciated.
thanks in advance
Ron
Message 32
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| Subject: | Cabin (inside) paint |
Hi Ron,
I'd have a look at Tim Olsons website. He has some great tips on paint,
finishes and interior links.
John #40315
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2006 12:29 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cabin (inside) paint
Time to paint the cabin. Any opinions on gloss vs satin vs matt? The -10
cabin is pretty big, any advantages/disadvantages of light vs dark shades
etc? I am a philistine when it comes to color selection, paint schemes,
interior design and other shiela stuff - and I don't think my wife is much
better ;-(. I hate this part. Let me pound them rivets and crimp them
wires any day . . .
All suggestions hugely appreciated.
thanks in advance
Ron
Message 33
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This service bulletin from Vans about leg nuts got me checking.....both nuts fitted
on 1 leg but not on the other. I emailed vans and it turns out that one leg
was not threaded properly or dropped then filed or whatever... who cares not
good enough.So Vans sent new nuts and 1 new leg but interesting the nut did
not really like the new leg....took some effort to get it on etc etc however bit
of lubricant and all well.
I had written previous posts to this about the leg but no replies.
Anyway....Vans are great....this is my second RV and no comparison to the 6.....so
eeeeasy!!! No head scratching ....just get into it!!!
regards Chris 388 Melbourne Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: John Dunne
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
Chris,
What was wrong with the leg?
John 40315
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2006 5:47 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pictures of bulkhead cracks
Vans just sent me a new gear leg as the R one was faulty.....Cost them $300 for
part and $200 for freight downunder........I cant complain.
Chris
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