---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/26/06: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:46 AM - Re: Painting (Carl Froehlich) 2. 04:58 AM - Re: IFR GPS (GRANSCOTT@aol.com) 3. 05:37 AM - Re: IFR GPS (Tim Olson) 4. 06:17 AM - Re: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question (Marcus Cooper) 5. 06:34 AM - Re: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question (James Hein) 6. 06:39 AM - Re: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question (Tim Olson) 7. 08:58 AM - Andair Fuel Valve Installation (Larry Rosen) 8. 09:01 AM - Andair Fuel Valve Installation Photo (Larry Rosen) 9. 10:16 AM - Re: Andair Fuel Valve Installation (Richard Sipp) 10. 10:20 AM - Re: Painting (zackrv8) 11. 11:50 AM - Re: Re: Painting (Carl Froehlich) 12. 12:52 PM - Re: Re: Painting (Randy Lervold) 13. 02:15 PM - Re: Andair Fuel Valve Installation (Tim Olson) 14. 04:37 PM - Elevator Root Rib (Shawn Moon) 15. 05:31 PM - Re: Garmin G1000 for aftermarket install? (GRANSCOTT@aol.com) 16. 05:31 PM - Re: Andair Fuel Valve Installation (David McNeill) 17. 05:32 PM - Re: Elevator Root Rib (bob.kaufmann) 18. 05:50 PM - Newbie question: "Do Not Archive" ((-Phil-)) 19. 05:55 PM - Hugo rv10-40456 () 20. 08:15 PM - Andair Fuel Valve (Sean Blair) 21. 08:53 PM - Re: Andair Fuel Valve (Tim Olson) 22. 09:18 PM - Re: Andair Fuel Valve (Sean Blair) 23. 09:27 PM - Elevator balance (Sean Blair) 24. 09:47 PM - Re: Andair Fuel Valve (Tim Olson) 25. 10:32 PM - Re: Andair Fuel Valve (Sean Blair) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:21 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Painting --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" Recommend flying before painting. You will be amazed at the "little changes" you will want to do the first year - most of which will mar your nice paint job. Assuming you will do the painting, recommend removing the wings to paint. The gain in ease far outweighs the 3-4 of hours of work to pull the wings. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (250 hours) RV-10 (tail) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of sam.marlow Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 10:48 PM Subject: RV10-List: Painting --> RV10-List message posted by: "sam.marlow" For those of you that have finishd building an RV of any type, can you shed some light on weather to assemble fully before or after painting? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15052#15052 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:02 AM PST US From: GRANSCOTT@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR GPS In a message dated 2/25/06 12:04:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com writes: The final approval rests with the FSDO. If you have the opportunity to research this, I believe you'll find that this information may have been supplemented, additionally you'll find that about a year or so ago the FAA changed it's policy on GPS's, they can now legally be installed by an A&P in a certified aircraft instead of the IA that was required before nor does the FSDO currently have to do an inspection of each installation and sign it off during testing at it did in the original circular. The current thought is that IFR GPS are basically bullet proof, if installed per manufacturers instructions and it you follow the installation instructions as to placement etc of critic components then the GPS will meet the TSO standards. You can question your local FSDO...it you've still are required to test fly the IFR GPS in VRF conditions to test and note the GPS in service in you frame log... Sorry of the sudden entry, I've been lurking on line for a while...currently own a PA 28 235 with an IFR Cert'd GPS, restoring a J 5--with the best GPS of all...a clear windshield and hope to clear enough time to begin an RV 10, thus I've been lurking on line and learning. But with the GPS question I though I'd chip in a little background info that I've kept track of in the past couple of years. I'm located in PA at N 57...New Garden Airport...am President of EAA Chapter 240, _www.eaa240.org_ (http://www.eaa240.org) if you want to visit our Chapter Web site. We have 3 members that are currently building RV 10's several that are flying various RV's and one RV 8 in our hangar getting it's finishing touches...Lucky Macy, as he's just received his "pink" slip, ready for taxi testing etc. By the way my name's Patrick Scott...and it has been great to read your information I'd like to thank all for sharing so much and it's good to see a few ol Mooney folks on the line. Plus visit Dan C's web site, plus I watch and Doug Petersen's 10 come together..Rivet Boy...John G is from the Piper site I also read and post on... This group has been a very good learning experience for me and I hope to meet a few of you at SnF as I'll be there from Tuesday to Thursday...coming down commercial to attend a friend's wedding and then will be extending into SnF. No I'm not related to the other Mr Scott of Van's... Sorry to have jumped on so directly...but the GPS thing is one avionics item that's changing somewhat quickly in FAA terms; like others have suggested you may want to located the antenna as close as possible to your unit; and I don't believe you want to do this for line lose reasons but because of potential interference...one thing to keep in mind GPS antennae do not slick out into the slip stream compared to radio antennae; so a position behind the upper "dome" of the cabin top may not really effect your aerodynamics greatly. I'm not an IA/A&P but I'd probably guess if you check with any avionics shop that they'd tell you the antenna will need to be a permanent installation and not like a hockey puck you can stick up in a glare screen area and later remove to another location. Antenna must be fixed in place for IFR operations. IFR equipment generally is required to be permanently installed with current data base, per instructions and FAA requirements. Thus a porcine coupler/unit etc temp antenna's etc...will probably not meet requirements...IMHO please do not archive Patrick Scott ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:45 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR GPS --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Man, check out the newcomer. Good info, great post, and he even knows how to use the "do not archive". Patrick, we're glad to have you on the list. As far as my GPS antenna's go, I want nothing but the best in signal, so I didn't go with any internal mounting at all. I know from a few years with handhelds that they can work fine on the glareshield. But, this is an IFR GPS install, and I agree as below....permanent mount, and find the best suitable place. Antennas and N-Number's aren't what makes a plane ugly. Ugly paint is what makes them ugly. I just want to have a GPS that never says "loss of coverage" to me. I have my Chelton's GPS antenna on the top of the tailcone, and my GNS480's antenna right on the top of the canopy behind the support bar. The wires ran up the support bar tube. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/25/06 12:04:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com writes: > > The final approval rests > with the FSDO. > > If you have the opportunity to research this, I believe you'll find that > this information may have been supplemented, additionally you'll find > that about a year or so ago the FAA changed it's policy on GPS's, they > can now legally be installed by an A&P in a certified aircraft instead > of the IA that was required before nor does the FSDO currently have to > do an inspection of each installation and sign it off during testing at > it did in the original circular. The current thought is that IFR GPS > are basically bullet proof, if installed per manufacturers > instructions and it you follow the installation instructions as to > placement etc of critic components then the GPS will meet the TSO > standards. You can question your local FSDO...it you've still are > required to test fly the IFR GPS in VRF conditions to test and note the > GPS in service in you frame log... > > Sorry of the sudden entry, I've been lurking on line for a > while...currently own a PA 28 235 with an IFR Cert'd GPS, restoring a J > 5--with the best GPS of all...a clear windshield and hope to clear > enough time to begin an RV 10, thus I've been lurking on line and > learning. But with the GPS question I though I'd chip in a little > background info that I've kept track of in the past couple of years. > > I'm located in PA at N 57...New Garden Airport...am President of EAA > Chapter 240, www.eaa240.org if you want to visit > our Chapter Web site. We have 3 members that are currently building RV > 10's several that are flying various RV's and one RV 8 in our hangar > getting it's finishing touches...Lucky Macy, as he's just received his > "pink" slip, ready for taxi testing etc. By the way my name's Patrick > Scott...and it has been great to read your information I'd like to thank > all for sharing so much and it's good to see a few ol Mooney folks on > the line. Plus visit Dan C's web site, plus I watch and Doug > Petersen's 10 come together..Rivet Boy...John G is from the Piper site I > also read and post on... > > This group has been a very good learning experience for me and I hope to > meet a few of you at SnF as I'll be there from Tuesday to > Thursday...coming down commercial to attend a friend's wedding and then > will be extending into SnF. No I'm not related to the other Mr Scott of > Van's... > > Sorry to have jumped on so directly...but the GPS thing is one avionics > item that's changing somewhat quickly in FAA terms; like others have > suggested you may want to located the antenna as close as possible to > your unit; and I don't believe you want to do this for line lose reasons > but because of potential interference...one thing to keep in mind GPS > antennae do not slick out into the slip stream compared to radio > antennae; so a position behind the upper "dome" of the cabin top may not > really effect your aerodynamics greatly. I'm not an IA/A&P but I'd > probably guess if you check with any avionics shop that they'd tell you > the antenna will need to be a permanent installation and not like a > hockey puck you can stick up in a glare screen area and later remove to > another location. Antenna must be fixed in place for IFR operations. IFR > equipment generally is required to be permanently installed with current > data base, per instructions and FAA requirements. Thus a porcine > coupler/unit etc temp antenna's etc...will probably not meet > requirements...IMHO > > please do not archive > > Patrick Scott ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:19 AM PST US From: "Marcus Cooper" Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" I agree that the GPS antenna is so small it's hardly an issue aesthetically. I have a question about the ground plane comment though. I have also read on the list that the longer the coax the greater the signal loss, which is amplified on the WAAS systems. My question is, is it better to accept the greater loss and go with a better ground plane by installing it just aft of the cabin, or go with min coax and put it at the front of the cabin (per Tim Olson) but have no ground plane? Thanks, Marcus Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: Tim Dawson-Townsend [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:46 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question The GPS is one of the lowest-profile antennas you are going to have, so why not install in on the outside, with lots of metal ground plane around it? TDT 40025 -----Original Message----- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:50 AM PST US From: James Hein Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein Marcus, Yes, coax has losses; The higher the frequency the higher the loss. Now, most external GPS antennas are amplified, so at the point where the signal is received, before it gets sent down the coax, it is amplified - thus overcoming cable losses (up to a point). Before someone points out that GPS antennas aren't powered because there are no power connections on the antenna.... There is a DC power signal (usually 5v) sent on the coax. This signal doesn't cause problems because the RF signal is decoupled by a capacitor inside the GPS. -Jim 40384 (Also an extra class ham radio operator) Marcus Cooper wrote: >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" > >I agree that the GPS antenna is so small it's hardly an issue aesthetically. >I have a question about the ground plane comment though. I have also read >on the list that the longer the coax the greater the signal loss, which is >amplified on the WAAS systems. My question is, is it better to accept the >greater loss and go with a better ground plane by installing it just aft of >the cabin, or go with min coax and put it at the front of the cabin (per Tim >Olson) but have no ground plane? > >Thanks, >Marcus > >Do Not Archive > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tim Dawson-Townsend [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On >Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend >Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:46 AM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question > > >The GPS is one of the lowest-profile antennas you are going to have, so why >not install in on the outside, with lots of metal ground plane around it? > >TDT >40025 > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:30 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I'm not sure of this other than what the Comant tech told me, but... The GPS/WSI combo antenna I got (should also be same for plain GPS) doesn't require a ground PLANE, but it does require a ground wire that runs to the antenna so it has a return path for the active powered stuff. I don't know if it would perform better with a ground plane though. I've considered actually putting a ground plane in, on the inside of the cabin, under the headliner. I'd do it in a minute if it was required, but right now I'm trying to fly and see how it goes. So far the GPS is tracking perfectly. My TruTrak, Chelton, and GNS480 all read the exact same heading at all times. Great stuff. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Marcus Cooper wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" > > I agree that the GPS antenna is so small it's hardly an issue aesthetically. > I have a question about the ground plane comment though. I have also read > on the list that the longer the coax the greater the signal loss, which is > amplified on the WAAS systems. My question is, is it better to accept the > greater loss and go with a better ground plane by installing it just aft of > the cabin, or go with min coax and put it at the front of the cabin (per Tim > Olson) but have no ground plane? > > Thanks, > Marcus > > Do Not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Dawson-Townsend [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:46 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR GPS Antenna Mounting Question > > > The GPS is one of the lowest-profile antennas you are going to have, so why > not install in on the outside, with lots of metal ground plane around it? > > TDT > 40025 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:40 AM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve Installation --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen I am part way through installing my Andair EFS20f7f fuel valve. I got the valve with a 6" extension and coupler. I do not think I will need the coupler. I have updated my web site so you can see where I am at and what the installation looks like. Here is the link to the details of the installation so far . The valve mount is made out of .063 sheet and angle. It is connected to the tunnel about 3 3/8" below the stock valve mount. This gives 2 1/4" clearance between the new Andair valve mount and the rudder cable. Hopefully this is enough room to get the scat tube through. The valve is mounted with the inlets forward (opposite of what the plans call for) so the right fuel tank feeds the right side of the valve and the left fuel tank feeds the left side of the valve. Also, a 90 degree fitting is required in lieu of the 45 degree fitting that the plans use (the fittings are on order). I tried mounting the valve per the plans and cross over the fuel lines, put the fittings were too close to the tunnel and the bends were very difficult to make. This installation seems to me to be much easier and well clear of any interferences. Take a look and let me know what you think. Will the scat tube clear? Should I install a 90 degree bulk head fitting where the fuel lines enter the tunnel in lieu of the 90 degree bend? -- Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:01:07 AM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve Installation Photo Attached is a photo of the installation. Hopefully small enough for those on dial up. Link to more photos is -- Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:16:39 AM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve Installation --> RV10-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" Larry, I used 90 degree bulkhead fittings where the fuel lines enter the tunnel. This seemed to make installing the fuel lines easier. I'm not much good at making good looking lines and this worked better for me. Dick Sipp #40065 .. > > Take a look and let me know what you think. > Will the scat tube clear? > Should I install a 90 degree bulk head fitting where the fuel lines enter > the tunnel in lieu of the 90 degree bend? > > -- > > Larry Rosen > RV-10 #356 > http://lrosen.nerv10.com > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:23 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Painting From: "zackrv8" --> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" sam.marlow wrote: > For those of you that have finishd building an RV of any type, can you shed some light on weather to assemble fully before or after painting? I have to disagree with Carl. I would certainly paint the whole plane before flying. Here's my reason's... First, if you paint it yourself or have someone else paint, it will be easier with the wings off. I highly recommend painting your wings with the wings off. You mount them vertically you can work on both sides at once. Also, bugs and dirt won't collect as easily as if the wings were horizontal. Then, if using a 2 stage paint process, it makes sanding the clearcoat easier. Second, if you fly your plane and then decide to paint it, you will be without a plane for awhile. This will drive you crazy! All your buds flying but not you! You could go into "RV withdraw" symtoms. Third, the only thing I noticed on my RV8 was paint chipping where the cowl meets the fuselage. I had too small a clearance and because of airloads and the hingepin wearing, that nice tight gap I had closed up and chipped the paint. Just keep the distance from the cowl to the fuselage about the thickness of a hacksaw blade and you should be fine. As the hingepins wear, the gap will be enough not to chip your paint. I can't see any other problems that would preclude you from painting before flying. Maybe Carl could elaborate more. Zack -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15148#15148 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:15 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Painting --> RV10-List message posted by: "Carl Froehlich" I fully agree with Zack that you paint with the wings and the empennage removed. For my RV-8A, there were advantages to wait on painting until after flying and working out the bugs. Here are a few things that I changed between flying and painting: 1. Small weeping rivet on the one gas tank. Not enough to drip, but enough to really irritate you as it would leave a green streak on the skin. Easy to fix when taking the wing off for painting. Yes - I did a leak check when building but this problem did not present itself. 2. Resetting the angle of incident on the horizontal stabilizer. I ended up adding a .040 shim under the forward stabilizer spar as I was getting too much down force. The shim turned out to be just the right size, but it was enough that the empennage fairing did not fit so it had to be redone. 3. Rigging (and re-rigging). Many small changes done to dial the plane in. One required replacing the one aileron mounting bracket. Although not required, I chose to glass in the wing tip, aileron, flap, rudder and elevator end ribs. Doing this after all the rigging adjustments and trials, I had confidence that I would not have to redo this work after painting. 4. Replacing the static air ports. I started out with a combination heated pitot tube (both static and dynamic ports in the tube). This arrangement yielded a 200' altitude error, and indicated speed dropping to zero at very high angles of attack. 5. One major redo on the main gear wheel pants mounting - required reglass work. 6. One major redo on the main gear leg fairings - required reglass work. I flew the plane for two years before painting. I did however paint all fiberglass pieces with PPG Concept single stage paint (not base coat/clear coat) so that the plane looked halfway decent. This was a simple, "one coat of blue in the garage" job but it looked fine. Zack is absolutely right however that you will be tempted never to paint it after flying. These planes are way fun! Carl -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of zackrv8 Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 1:20 PM Subject: RV10-List: Re: Painting --> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" sam.marlow wrote: > For those of you that have finishd building an RV of any type, can you shed some light on weather to assemble fully before or after painting? I have to disagree with Carl. I would certainly paint the whole plane before flying. Here's my reason's... First, if you paint it yourself or have someone else paint, it will be easier with the wings off. I highly recommend painting your wings with the wings off. You mount them vertically you can work on both sides at once. Also, bugs and dirt won't collect as easily as if the wings were horizontal. Then, if using a 2 stage paint process, it makes sanding the clearcoat easier. Second, if you fly your plane and then decide to paint it, you will be without a plane for awhile. This will drive you crazy! All your buds flying but not you! You could go into "RV withdraw" symtoms. Third, the only thing I noticed on my RV8 was paint chipping where the cowl meets the fuselage. I had too small a clearance and because of airloads and the hingepin wearing, that nice tight gap I had closed up and chipped the paint. Just keep the distance from the cowl to the fuselage about the thickness of a hacksaw blade and you should be fine. As the hingepins wear, the gap will be enough not to chip your paint. I can't see any other problems that would preclude you from painting before flying. Maybe Carl could elaborate more. Zack -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15148#15148 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:58 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Painting --> RV10-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > sam.marlow wrote: >> For those of you that have finishd building an RV of any type, can you >> shed some light on weather to assemble fully before or after painting? > > > I have to disagree with Carl. I would certainly paint the whole plane > before flying. Here's my reason's... > > First, if you paint it yourself or have someone else paint, it will be > easier with the wings off. I highly recommend painting your wings with > the wings off. You mount them vertically you can work on both sides at > once. Also, bugs and dirt won't collect as easily as if the wings were > horizontal. Then, if using a 2 stage paint process, it makes sanding the > clearcoat easier. > > Second, if you fly your plane and then decide to paint it, you will be > without a plane for awhile. This will drive you crazy! All your buds > flying but not you! You could go into "RV withdraw" symtoms. > > Third, the only thing I noticed on my RV8 was paint chipping where the > cowl meets the fuselage. I had too small a clearance and because of > airloads and the hingepin wearing, that nice tight gap I had closed up and > chipped the paint. > > Just keep the distance from the cowl to the fuselage about the thickness > of a hacksaw blade and you should be fine. As the hingepins wear, the gap > will be enough not to chip your paint. > > I can't see any other problems that would preclude you from painting > before flying. Maybe Carl could elaborate more. > > Zack I'm with Zack on all counts and plan to paint first in parts on my current project (RV-3B) just like I did on my RV-8. Pay attention to what he says about end clearance where fiberglass parts but up against something else. Starting with 1/8" clearnace is a good rule of thumb because primer and paint will decrease the final gap. Randy Lervold ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:47 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve Installation --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I would guess that the 90 degree would be fine. I don't know how much restriction it would give. I was unsure, so I tried to eliminate any 90's that I could other than the ones going right into the valve itself. One note....Don't think of things as being too permanent until you start getting the filter and pump in place too. That's when it really starts to get convoluted. It's tough to get the proper height and angle on some of those tight bends. Looks good so far though. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Larry Rosen wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen > > I am part way through installing my Andair EFS20f7f fuel valve. I got > the valve with a 6" extension and coupler. I do not think I will need > the coupler. I have updated my web site so you can see where I am at > and what the installation looks like. Here is the link to the details > of the installation so far > . > The valve mount is made out of .063 sheet and angle. It is connected to > the tunnel about 3 3/8" below the stock valve mount. This gives 2 1/4" > clearance between the new Andair valve mount and the rudder cable. > Hopefully this is enough room to get the scat tube through. The valve > is mounted with the inlets forward (opposite of what the plans call for) > so the right fuel tank feeds the right side of the valve and the left > fuel tank feeds the left side of the valve. Also, a 90 degree fitting > is required in lieu of the 45 degree fitting that the plans use (the > fittings are on order). I tried mounting the valve per the plans and > cross over the fuel lines, put the fittings were too close to the tunnel > and the bends were very difficult to make. This installation seems to > me to be much easier and well clear of any interferences. > Take a look and let me know what you think. > Will the scat tube clear? > Should I install a 90 degree bulk head fitting where the fuel lines > enter the tunnel in lieu of the 90 degree bend? > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:34 PM PST US From: Shawn Moon Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Root Rib All, I thought this question had been answered, but I could not find it in the archive search. I am having a real hard time riveting the E-904 tip rib to the elevator front spar (page 9-14 steo 5). I have a pneumatic squeezer and there just isn't enough space to get it in there to squeeze. The body of it hits against the rib and keeps it from squeezing perpendicular to the spar. Does anybody have any good ideas on this? --Shawn 40366 --------------------------------- Brings words and photos together (easily) with ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:35 PM PST US From: GRANSCOTT@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Garmin G1000 for aftermarket install? G 1000 I have several hours behind the G 1000 screens/system in a C 182T model--with the FITS training etc for CAP,...it's a nice system but I'm not sure I'd pay the up charge is for this system. First of all the KAP 140 while a good autopilot is not really part of the G 1000 set up, Garmin is apparently currently developing their own autopilot. In the G 1000, one set's the Altimeter setting 3 time for each change...in the G 1000, the back up altimeter, and the auto pilot. When you set a cruise altitude you set it in the system twice also, once in the G 1000 screen as a target altitude and again on the KAP 140, but the auto pilot will only intercept the AP setting and in the Cessna the AP goes above the altitude 20-40' before it settles back down to your altitude. I'd rather have an altitude that I could set and check off of the GPS rather than pressure settings. You can check these figures off of the MFD pages but it's several page flips getting there. Programming the G 1000 is very simple and it's easy to use but I don't believe I would pay the amount of money they are asking...if you're not aware of what the current charge is...it's about an $80k upgrade cost from a current IFR set up system so if you trade in the items plus the upgrade the real cost is somewhere north of a $100k. Believe it or not with the KAP 140 there is a T&B indicator but it's buried behind the MFD screen so if you lose both screens it will do you no good what so ever as a back up instrument. The built in engine instruments are great and it's dead simple to lean out the engine to what ever setting you desire, plus the flow meter is so easy to read in a tape display. Actually using the tapes and electronic HSI, displays are very easy to learn and follow...too easy I'd fear...I think if you really learned IFR on this system you'd have a hard time understanding steam instruments...easy to go electronic but tough going the other way. While I only have about 25 actual hours of G 1000 time, I did several day's and evening on ground school, plus sim time and played with the computer simulator on my computer...which is pretty realistic better than the certified old fashion sim's I've flown...IMHO. I hope to get a little bit of time with a friend of mine and his glass screens he's putting together for a Velocity...I can't imagine with a few items that are experimental only, and the TruTrak AP, it won't be better than the G 1000/KAP 140 for tens of thousands less. Nice article in Aviation Consumer about the G 1000 vs. Integra. Patrick Scott do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:35 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve Installation Here are the pictures of our Andair fuel selector mount; using Tim's suggestion we left the tractor selector mount in place until our replacement was fabricated and clecloed in place. Note that we have solved the problem of removing the forward tunnel cover by splitting the aft end. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Rosen" Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:55 AM Subject: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve Installation > --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen > > I am part way through installing my Andair EFS20f7f fuel valve. I got the > valve with a 6" extension and coupler. I do not think I will need the > coupler. I have updated my web site so you can see where I am at and what > the installation looks like. Here is the link to the details of the > installation so far > . > The valve mount is made out of .063 sheet and angle. It is connected to > the tunnel about 3 3/8" below the stock valve mount. This gives 2 1/4" > clearance between the new Andair valve mount and the rudder cable. > Hopefully this is enough room to get the scat tube through. The valve is > mounted with the inlets forward (opposite of what the plans call for) so > the right fuel tank feeds the right side of the valve and the left fuel > tank feeds the left side of the valve. Also, a 90 degree fitting is > required in lieu of the 45 degree fitting that the plans use (the fittings > are on order). I tried mounting the valve per the plans and cross over > the fuel lines, put the fittings were too close to the tunnel and the > bends were very difficult to make. This installation seems to me to be > much easier and well clear of any interferences. > Take a look and let me know what you think. > Will the scat tube clear? > Should I install a 90 degree bulk head fitting where the fuel lines enter > the tunnel in lieu of the 90 degree bend? > > -- > > Larry Rosen > RV-10 #356 > http://lrosen.nerv10.com > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:48 PM PST US From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Elevator Root Rib Buck it. Bob K Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Moon Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 4:34 PM Subject: RV10-List: Elevator Root Rib All, I thought this question had been answered, but I could not find it in the archive search. I am having a real hard time riveting the E-904 tip rib to the elevator front spar (page 9-14 steo 5). I have a pneumatic squeezer and there just isn't enough space to get it in there to squeeze. The body of it hits against the rib and keeps it from squeezing perpendicular to the spar. Does anybody have any good ideas on this? --Shawn 40366 _____ Brings words and photos together (easily) with PhotoMail Subject: RV10-List: Newbie question: "Do Not Archive" --> RV10-List message posted by: "(-Phil-)" Pardon me if this is in the archives... ;-) But why do so many people choose to "Do Not Archive"? This seems to reduce valuable information that could be used by others that enter later on... It seems counterintuitive to the purpose of a community list. -Phil ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:14 PM PST US From: Subject: RV10-List: Hugo rv10-40456 --> RV10-List message posted by: Hi, Hugo Here,riveting the tail cone. Does any body in the field use or intend to use a Trio Avionics AP, May be I was a little stupid order one without ask the questions first,any good or bad news regarding this product?. Las year at Sun&fun I see them,and personally liked,any opinion ? Thanks. Hugo do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:38 PM PST US From: "Sean Blair" Subject: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" Okay....I'm still learning, but on the Andair Valve it seems that many people are utilizing the valve with a "left" and "right" selection only. Wouldn't it be beneficial to have a "both" selection as well, like the FS20X4? Sean B. #40225 Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:51 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I don't think you'd want this on a low-wing plane. Besides that, it's easier to practice good fuel management and have reserve if you're always keeping the tanks separate. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Sean Blair wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" > > > > Okay....I'm still learning, but on the Andair Valve it seems that many > people are utilizing the valve with a "left" and "right" selection only. > Wouldn't it be beneficial to have a "both" selection as well, like the > FS20X4? > > Sean B. > #40225 > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:21 PM PST US From: "Sean Blair" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" Thanks Tim. Knowing what you know now, would you choose the FS20X3 (180 degrees) or FS20X7 (45 degrees) based on installation aspects? Also, male or female fittings? Sean B. #40225 Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:51 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I don't think you'd want this on a low-wing plane. Besides that, it's easier to practice good fuel management and have reserve if you're always keeping the tanks separate. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Sean Blair wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" > > > > Okay....I'm still learning, but on the Andair Valve it seems that many > people are utilizing the valve with a "left" and "right" selection only. > Wouldn't it be beneficial to have a "both" selection as well, like the > FS20X4? > > Sean B. > #40225 > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:54 PM PST US From: "Sean Blair" Subject: RV10-List: Elevator balance I had my EAA Tech Advisor perform an inspection today and he noticed something interesting that puzzles me too. The elevators are hanging on the horizontal stabilizer with temporary pins and able to move freely. They are not yet attached to each other and both of them settle in the down position even if you manually move them to the up position. I have rechecked the installation of the counterweights and it appears they are correct. Is this normal? I thought, and so did my tech advisor, the elevators would be balanced rather than fall to the down position. Thanks, Sean B. #40225 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:43 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson That's a tough one. I'd like to see how Larry's install goes with the FS20X7 valve before I'd decide. On one hand, the FS20X3 is kind of weird with the inlets on the Left and Front. On the other hand, I can't tell if there is going to be any clearance problem with the outlet passing by the tubes on the new valve. My guess is there won't be any problem and the FS20X7 would be the best valve for the job. I would get 90 degree Male -6 fittings on the valve. I wouldn't get NPT fittings and add my own elbows, I'd get the built-in Andair elbows so that all 3 connections come off the bottom. I am not having any problems at all with my install, and I'm appreciating my flex fuel lines greatly. I do think though that if I could start all over I'd be using the 90 degree (45 to Left and 45 to right) valve. It'll be great to see how Larry's comes out. The proof will be when the fuel filter and pump are all connected. I think the hardest part is the positioning and fittings used to mount the valve to the filter, while still allowing clearance for the elevator bellcrank that hooks up to the sticks. I did learn something from my DAR who happens to work at Cirrus. Cirrus uses Andair valves in their aircraft. So I guess even the pros like them. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Sean Blair wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" > > Thanks Tim. Knowing what you know now, would you choose the FS20X3 (180 > degrees) or FS20X7 (45 degrees) based on installation aspects? Also, male > or female fittings? > > Sean B. > #40225 > > Do Not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:51 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > I don't think you'd want this on a low-wing plane. > Besides that, it's easier to practice good fuel management and have > reserve if you're always keeping the tanks separate. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Sean Blair wrote: >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" >> >> >> >> Okay....I'm still learning, but on the Andair Valve it seems that many >> people are utilizing the valve with a "left" and "right" selection only. >> Wouldn't it be beneficial to have a "both" selection as well, like the >> FS20X4? >> >> Sean B. >> #40225 >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:22 PM PST US From: "Sean Blair" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" This is very helpful advice. Thanks..........again. Sean #40225 Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:46 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson That's a tough one. I'd like to see how Larry's install goes with the FS20X7 valve before I'd decide. On one hand, the FS20X3 is kind of weird with the inlets on the Left and Front. On the other hand, I can't tell if there is going to be any clearance problem with the outlet passing by the tubes on the new valve. My guess is there won't be any problem and the FS20X7 would be the best valve for the job. I would get 90 degree Male -6 fittings on the valve. I wouldn't get NPT fittings and add my own elbows, I'd get the built-in Andair elbows so that all 3 connections come off the bottom. I am not having any problems at all with my install, and I'm appreciating my flex fuel lines greatly. I do think though that if I could start all over I'd be using the 90 degree (45 to Left and 45 to right) valve. It'll be great to see how Larry's comes out. The proof will be when the fuel filter and pump are all connected. I think the hardest part is the positioning and fittings used to mount the valve to the filter, while still allowing clearance for the elevator bellcrank that hooks up to the sticks. I did learn something from my DAR who happens to work at Cirrus. Cirrus uses Andair valves in their aircraft. So I guess even the pros like them. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Sean Blair wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" > > Thanks Tim. Knowing what you know now, would you choose the FS20X3 (180 > degrees) or FS20X7 (45 degrees) based on installation aspects? Also, male > or female fittings? > > Sean B. > #40225 > > Do Not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 9:51 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Andair Fuel Valve > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > I don't think you'd want this on a low-wing plane. > Besides that, it's easier to practice good fuel management and have > reserve if you're always keeping the tanks separate. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Sean Blair wrote: >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Sean Blair" >> >> >> >> Okay....I'm still learning, but on the Andair Valve it seems that many >> people are utilizing the valve with a "left" and "right" selection only. >> Wouldn't it be beneficial to have a "both" selection as well, like the >> FS20X4? >> >> Sean B. >> #40225 >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >