Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:50 AM - Re: planning (John Jessen)
2. 04:05 AM - Re: Re: planning (Dan Masys)
3. 04:37 AM - Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Patrick Thyssen)
4. 05:24 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
5. 05:47 AM - Re: planning (GRANSCOTT@AOL.COM)
6. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff ()
7. 06:19 AM - Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Jesse Saint)
8. 06:29 AM - Re: OSH '06 (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
9. 06:48 AM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 70 Msgs - 04/12/06 (Buhwana)
10. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
11. 07:06 AM - Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
12. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Tim Olson)
13. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Dj Merrill)
14. 07:57 AM - Re: planning (John Jessen)
15. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
16. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (John Jessen)
17. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Tim Olson)
18. 08:19 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Dj Merrill)
19. 08:20 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne (Tim Olson)
20. 09:17 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
21. 09:43 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck (Chris Johnston)
22. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
23. 10:57 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
24. 11:13 AM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
25. 01:03 PM - Re: planning (John Gonzalez)
26. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
27. 01:26 PM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck (Brian Sponcil)
28. 01:35 PM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
29. 01:37 PM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
30. 03:14 PM - Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
31. 03:49 PM - Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (SteinAir, Inc.)
32. 04:00 PM - Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Patrick Thyssen)
33. 04:31 PM - Rear Windows (Barry Marz or Amy Marz)
34. 05:12 PM - Removable Rear Windows? (Dave Saylor)
35. 05:38 PM - Re: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff (Dan Masys)
36. 05:51 PM - Re: Removable Rear Windows? (Deems Davis)
37. 06:03 PM - Re: Removable Rear Windows? (PJ Seipel)
38. 06:07 PM - Re: planning (jdalton77)
39. 06:09 PM - Re: Rear Windows (David McNeill)
40. 08:20 PM - aileron trim tension (Jay Rowe)
41. 08:28 PM - Re: Removable Rear Windows? (John Dunne)
42. 08:50 PM - Re: Rear Windows (Chris , Susie Darcy)
43. 09:44 PM - Re: Rear Windows (David McNeill)
44. 11:31 PM - Re: Rear Windows (ddddsp1@juno.com)
Message 1
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
I keep doing the numbers and coming up with a range of 120 to 160, but never
below the 120 mark. And sometimes above the 160 fathom. I suggest that in
some respects the glass craze is becoming just that, and driving up folks
feel they must spend, along with an engine that compliments same. I bounce
back and forth between high end and very high end. Let me please take a
deep breath.
I rode on a 757 the other day and lingered a bit at the open door to the
flight deck. Nothing but steam gauges. Even still, we seemed to have very
nicely transitioned from point A to point B, around 3200 miles. I'm going
glass, mind you, but Randy's Yugo is actually more capable than that 757, in
some ways. Not in others, of course. All I'm saying is that we need to get
a grip. The difference between a Yugo panel and top of the line can be 40
thousand dollars. $40,000. Yeow. Still gets you there. Got that 757
there.
So, how much to plan for? You can do a very nice IFR capable plane for 120k
or less. But it's hard. I feel like Jason at the mast. The Sirens are
calling.
John Jessen
~328 (I don't know. Seemed like a great idea at the time.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: planning
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Acutally, that's probably more correct, except in some cases the 2nd line
should read 1/4 cost = engine (No FWF).
1/4 Airframe
1/4 Engine
1/8 Prop, Paint, Accessories, Interior, FWF
3/8 Avionics, Panel wiring and assembly
Or something to that effect.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John W. Cox wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox"
> --> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Let me add a new fraction in the sphere of EFIS and glass cockpits.
> 1/4 cost = airframe kit
> 1/4 cost = engine with FWF
> 1/2 = prop, paint, panel, avionics, accessories and interior finish.
>
> VANS estimates of 90K, Randy's costs and Tim's costs might just shed a
> more useable light on the RV-10 when estimating. The rest of you
> flying might through your fractions out for discussion.
>
> John - $00.02
> Do not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:07 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: planning
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> As you might expect there's a wide variation based upon options that
> you
>
> have available to you and the decisions you make relative to those
> options.
> Some rules of thumb:
> 1/3 cost = kit
> 1/3 cost = engine & prop
> 1/3 cost = panel
>
> The cost of the kit itself is pretty well established, however Van
> does increaase his prices at the beginning of every year. There are
> options available for the airframe, (lighting, fuel valve,
> cowls,plenum, interior panels/ducts/lights that all add cost.
> Engine, a WIDE variation from used Lycomings (teens $K) to new
> Lycomings
>
> ($40k+) and then Alternative (mostly auto conversions) and then there
> are options that will add to this (electronic ingition, balancing,
> cold air induction,oil coolers, & more) Props - again options used to
> new 2 blade vs 3 blade, metal vs composite, cost range (4-5kused -
> $15k) Panel - How much money have you got? basic VFR could be done
> relatively inexpensively, particularly if you scrounge for used
> instruments, new glass IFR upwards of$40-50k + Tools - you'll buy more
> along the way.
>
> Plug in your decisions and you'll get an ESTIMATE.
>
> Then add 10-15% for stuff you didn't think about.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
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Message 2
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> I keep doing the numbers and coming up with a range of 120 to 160, but never
> below the 120 mark. And sometimes above the 160 fathom.
Seems absolutely frugal compared to a new 140kt Skylane costing $300K or a Cirrus
at $450K, doesn't it? Makes me think I should have kept the fully loaded IFR
equipped C172 that I got for $15K in 1987 as a table ornament.
As Gordon Baxter said, the price of aviation has always been the same: all you
got.
-Dan Masys
#40448
Message 3
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| Subject: | IFR related cockpit stuff |
I went to Sun N Fun to buy the Chelton or GRT and ended up buying a dual OP Tech
8.4 intergrated system. They were very informative and they are a OEM for a
couple of LSA aircraft. Got to talk to the people who make the LSA one in spain
and they just love it.
Becker is what we get with the intergrated or you can use Garmin SL30 for remote.They
have a mode S transponer but need to write some sofeware, but you can
use a Garmin 330, but it will not be remoted to the display. That is you will
see it on the MFD but can not tune it there. Since traffic is a must in our
AC we will get the garmin 330.
Getting them to put landscape on Epanel next few days so we can decide landscape
or portrait. Having to blow up images to size it looks lilke land scape will
fit better.
I flew the sim at the show and it was OK by me. Reminded me of flying the sim
at training.
The bad thing it looks like I'll be buying the Sorrcier instead of RV10 AP.
Thanks
Pat
257
"RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
I like the OP stuff and have been keeping an eye on it for a while now,
especially with the major jump in Chelton prices. It's still a option for
me but I probably won't do the integrated version. They also don't seem to be
real good about getting any info out to the market about their going on's but
then again neither is the D2AV guys.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
do not archive
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
Guess I would be considered one of the newest on the list due to the fact that
I placed my order at SNF. But am looking at an EFIS that I have seen no one
mention. The OP Technologies display. 1. it is larger than Chelton 2. Has an
internal GPS. 3. you can mount radios and Transponder remotely. 4. It displays
approach plates. Oh yeah is a lot cheaper than the chelton system. Will forward
first panel draft by Nick at Park Rapids Avionics.
John Cram
40569 ( waiting on the Emp)
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make this
same information available to us, the public, for free...one of the guys from
the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety seminar
recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these updating disc are available
from a
number of places...but acording to a fellow presenting the information we can
get it directly, vai a download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere
out there!!!
Patrick
do not archive
Message 5
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John,
While the 757 has steam gauges on it, I'm sure it flew by an Inertial Flight
System, guiding the AP system, the IFS is the unit with the key pad sitting
between the right and left seat...the gauges just hook into the system as does
a
modern digital box system driving the screen system...the digital system just
may be a little more accurate if it is programmed correctly and the input
data is accurate. How much more accurate would a digital system be over an
analog system, guess that would depend upon how accurate the software and hardware
are.
I get to fly with a G 1000 system, this week coming up it will be going into
the shop to update the software again as Garmin/Cessna have discovered a
number of issues with the product. This is the 3-4th time in the last year they
have had to update the software, one time the plane was down for 3 weeks because
the updating software was incorrect and they needed to write a special
patch...the updated software crashed the system. In the mean time we have an old
Q
model 182 and it's still running along, IFR with steam gauges...sure it does
not look as nice as the flat panel screens in the T model, but it's not been
down for software issues.
They will both get you from point A to B; it's just a matter of information
display, redundancy, and back up information...whether you look at a chart, and
approach plates printed or view them on a screen the basic data is the
same...it's the presentation and redundancy you're paying for...IMHO.
With the G 1000 system, I don't believe you are required to carry
charts/plates as the memory contains all the enroute and approach plates but you
do need
to have a current data base.
Patrick S
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
sorry for my stupid ignorance,who is OP ,and a relative web page.
Hugo,thanks
>
> From: Patrick Thyssen <jump2@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: 2006/04/13 Thu AM 07:36:17 EDT
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> I went to Sun N Fun to buy the Chelton or GRT and ended up buying a dual OP
Tech 8.4 intergrated system. They were very informative and they are a OEM for
a couple of LSA aircraft. Got to talk to the people who make the LSA one in spain
and they just love it.
> Becker is what we get with the intergrated or you can use Garmin SL30 for
remote.They have a mode S transponer but need to write some sofeware, but you
can use a Garmin 330, but it will not be remoted to the display. That is you will
see it on the MFD but can not tune it there. Since traffic is a must in our
AC we will get the garmin 330.
> Getting them to put landscape on Epanel next few days so we can decide landscape
or portrait. Having to blow up images to size it looks lilke land scape
will fit better.
> I flew the sim at the show and it was OK by me. Reminded me of flying the
sim at training.
> The bad thing it looks like I'll be buying the Sorrcier instead of RV10 AP.
> Thanks
> Pat
> 257
>
> "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
> I like the OP stuff and have been keeping an eye on it for a while
now, especially with the major jump in Chelton prices. It's still a option for
me but I probably won't do the integrated version. They also don't seem to
be real good about getting any info out to the market about their going on's but
then again neither is the D2AV guys.
>
> Michael Sausen
> -10 #352 Fuselage
> do not archive
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:55 PM
> To: RV10 LIST
> Subject: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
>
>
> Guess I would be considered one of the newest on the list due to the fact that
I placed my order at SNF. But am looking at an EFIS that I have seen no one
mention. The OP Technologies display. 1. it is larger than Chelton 2. Has an
internal GPS. 3. you can mount radios and Transponder remotely. 4. It displays
approach plates. Oh yeah is a lot cheaper than the chelton system. Will forward
first panel draft by Nick at Park Rapids Avionics.
>
> John Cram
> 40569 ( waiting on the Emp)
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Price tag if one of the rest of us wanted to go with a similar system?
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of
May. You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can check
from down here. Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office at
352-465-4545.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
Heh heh.
Avidyne Entegra PFD
Avidyne Entegra MFD
Avidyne TAS600 traffic
Avidyne MHD
GRT EIS 6000
SL30
GX60
GTX330
TruTrak Pictorial Pilot
That should be about enough toys . . . : )
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of RV Builder (Michael
Sausen)
Sent: Wed 4/12/2006 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
So Tim, what's your panel going to look like? You've been awfully quiet
about the details of your own config. ;-)
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
--> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Okay, but you're not going to like it!
EX500: $8,995
Includes XM weather, Traffic interfaces, Stormscope interface, "Multilink"
two-way Datalink.
(or spend $16,985 and get a package with also a TAS600 (formerly TCAD)
ACTIVE traffic sensor)
Plus:
JeppView chart function (we call it "CMax"): $2,495
Jeppesen subscriptions for terminal charts range from $376 for "US West"
to $965 for "48 states" . . .
But it's certified and since most charts are geo-referenced, you can overlay
ownship and flightplans! It supports "day" and "night" color palettes, too.
One cool thing that is useful on a handful of charts is that Visual
approaches are also geo-referenced. So we can overlay your ownship on the
chart for the Roaring Fork Visual approach to Aspen. This give you great
situational awareness, since you're no longer dependent on identifying one
named mountain from another . . .
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Oooooh oooooh, I almost forgot to say that.... The EX500 is
a beautiful piece of equipment. If charting is really what you want on one
of those boxes, go for the EX500. Now, Tim, fill us in on the costs of the
box plus JeppView and a subscription.
I do think that would be sweet though.
The tablet option, with a little scripting work, will cost me the price of a
laptop/tablet to run the charts on, plus about $10. Annual cost....so far
$0-10 if you're willing to do a tiny bit of legwork with an old scrap PC.
Tim
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
> NavData is used by moving maps and GPS units and is a database of
> navaids, airports, etc, and their lat/lons.
>
> If you want terminal charts, you need "JeppView" - a separate (and
> pricier) subscription, as well as something that is compatible to
> display them. (How about a nice Avidyne EX500?)
>
> BTW, when Jesse said the government charts available on many tablets
> aren't "to scale" he really meant they aren't "geo-referenced".
That's
> what allows ownships and flightplans to be overlaid on top.
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> I'm confused. You have 3 screens, an you need, essentially, a 4th,
> because none of the Cheltons can show Jepp or FAA IFR charts? This
> has taken
me
> by
> surprise. For some reason, when I read their brochure that states
"It's
> loaded with Jeppesen NavData that allows for onscreen flight
> planning...."
> I assumed charts. Yeow.
>
> John Jessen
> ~328 (amazed...and am doing some recalculations and recombinations
of
> various equipment.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:53 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> You're right that it will draw the approach on the screen, and it
> actually gives a fair amount of the required info for the approach,
> including flying the missed approach. But, as you noticed, you'll
> still want to have some sort of chart. What I've done so far is to
> start using a tablet PC.
I
> need
> to get out now and fly with it and see how it goes. The sportys DVD
> charts, by the way, are very nice. $10 gets you all of the
> approaches. I got the DVD, and I'll keep the files updated manually
> from the FAA site.
> The thing is, with the stinkin' pen I haven't been able to be very
good
> at
> entering the stuff into the tablet....mine is an old
> Compaq TC1000. So, I think what I'm going to end up with is
> maybe a nicer tablet, or I'll pre-plan most of my approaches and just
> put desktop icons linking me to that particular airport
> before each trip. For local flying, I'll probably just grab
> a few paper charts printer from the FAA site and use those.
> For X/C, you never know what you'll need. It was my intention
> to shop for good tablet charting solutions at SNF, but my time got
eaten
> up
> and I ended up not being able to get much info.
> For the time being though, what I have now would work in a pinch.
>
> FYI: There is one guy who figured out how to display charts on his
> Chelton...but I think it's complicated beyond what most people would
> want to try....hardware mods and additions.
>
> PS: Congrats on the rating....use it often and wisely.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Chris Johnston wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston"
>> --> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>>
>> Hey all -
>>
>> For those going/have gone the chelton route - what are anyone's
>> thoughts about displaying/viewing things like approach plates or
> enroute
> charts?
>> I put my deposit down on the chelton stuff the day I got back from
>> S-N-F, and I got to thinking about it. I'm a brand new instrument
>> rated pilot (took my checkride the day I left for S-N-F), and I'm
>> tired of lugging around the super-heavy flight bag. I know the
>> chelton will tell you all you need to know about the approach, and
the
>
>> Trutrak autopilot will fly it for you, but I like the idea of being
>> able to see the plate on the screen, possibly with a little airplane
>> super-imposed on it. So do you go "electronic flightbag" with a
>> tablet computer? MX20 is a thought but is a little pricey for what
> little
> I'd be using it for.
>> Plus, I'll be using the freeflight IFR GPS, and 2 SL30s in the panel.
>> No garmin GPS. Has anyone with more IFR experience than me thought
>> about this and arrived at a comfortable, yet suitably cool solution?
>> Be gentle with me. I'm new to this stuff.
>>
>> cj
>> #40410
>> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>>
>
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>
====================================
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Message 8
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I will be there with N519RV (Kit 40250).
Thank You
Ray Doerr
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 7:33 PM
Subject: RV10-List: OSH '06
Thanks. All is well. Hope to see you again at OSH this year. You planning on
being there? While we are on this, what new -10's are hoping to be at Osh this
year that weren't last year? I hope to have N415EC there, that's kit 40415
built in Ecuador. I am sure we will be seeing N104CD there.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of May.
You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can check from down
here. Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office at 352-465-4545.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Jesse, I used some weather strip that has adhesive back. It is white and about
=BC" in diameter. I did get some water in through the door at Oshkosh last year
and the carpet was wet about an 1" inside the door. If you remember it REALLY
POURED. Hope all is well. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
I haven't spent much time in the back seat except one time that I climbed from
the front to the back to test the different in C/G, but there was no turbulence
then. I haven't heard any complaints at all from back seat passengers, at least
not about waggle.
By the way, Tim and Randy, can you post a picture of how you sealed your baggage
door? We are getting water back there that I assume comes from the door.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of May.
You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can check from down
here. Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office at 352-465-4545.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Talking to Alex DeDominicis (sp?), The Sorcerer's VOR/ILS/GS functions are removed,
a yaw dampener is added. Alex's wife felt a lot of waggle in the back seat
since it's behind the spar, so he adjusted the software for the price of the
VOR/ILS/GS. In his -10 he can overlay any approach he wants to using the GNS480,
so he sees no real loss of functionality, and he gains the yaw dampener.
Randy, Jesse, Tim, others flying, thoughts about your back seaters' experiences?
Rob #392
Waiting QB shipment
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Sorry TDT you're correct...they do not have it on the web site as of last week,
and other than a pix they did not have a data sheet, that I was aware of, so
the fellow said that it would not intercept the final approach course...I was
assuming he meant an ILS and not a GPS/WAAS approach...but I'm not really sure
that is correct.
Hopefully they will have it on the site soon.
P
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV10-List Digest: 70 Msgs - 04/12/06 |
Expect to see N533JD there. You'll like this one!
BTW at SnF the Garmin rep hinted that they were looking at the
possibility of offering the G1000 to the EXP group. Seems they have
two employees building -10. the decision would be after OSH. He
smiled and said they could ~probably~ do it for considerably less
than chelton!
On Apr 13, 2006, at 1:57 AM, RV10-List Digest Server wrote:
> Thanks. All is well. Hope to see you again at OSH this year. You
> planning
> on being there? While we are on this, what new -10=92s are hoping
> to be at
> Osh this year that weren=92t last year? I hope to have N415EC
> there, that=92s
> kit 40415 built in Ecuador. I am sure we will be seeing N104CD there.
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
Here you go:
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=3Dnaco/online/d_tpp
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make
this same information available to us, the public, for free...one of the
guys from the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety
seminar recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these
updating disc are available from a number of places...but acording to a
fellow presenting the information we can get it directly, vai a
download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere out there!!!
Message 11
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| Subject: | IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Uh, list price totals about $80,000 for that list of Avidyne gear . . .
www.avidyne.com
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Price tag if one of the rest of us wanted to go with a similar system?
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of
May. You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can
check
from down here. Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office
at
352-465-4545.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
Heh heh.
Avidyne Entegra PFD
Avidyne Entegra MFD
Avidyne TAS600 traffic
Avidyne MHD
GRT EIS 6000
SL30
GX60
GTX330
TruTrak Pictorial Pilot
That should be about enough toys . . . : )
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of RV Builder
(Michael
Sausen)
Sent: Wed 4/12/2006 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
So Tim, what's your panel going to look like? You've been awfully
quiet
about the details of your own config. ;-)
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:25 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
--> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Okay, but you're not going to like it!
EX500: $8,995
Includes XM weather, Traffic interfaces, Stormscope interface,
"Multilink"
two-way Datalink.
(or spend $16,985 and get a package with also a TAS600 (formerly TCAD)
ACTIVE traffic sensor)
Plus:
JeppView chart function (we call it "CMax"): $2,495
Jeppesen subscriptions for terminal charts range from $376 for "US West"
to $965 for "48 states" . . .
But it's certified and since most charts are geo-referenced, you can
overlay
ownship and flightplans! It supports "day" and "night" color palettes,
too.
One cool thing that is useful on a handful of charts is that Visual
approaches are also geo-referenced. So we can overlay your ownship on
the
chart for the Roaring Fork Visual approach to Aspen. This give you
great
situational awareness, since you're no longer dependent on identifying
one
named mountain from another . . .
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Oooooh oooooh, I almost forgot to say that.... The EX500 is
a beautiful piece of equipment. If charting is really what you want on
one
of those boxes, go for the EX500. Now, Tim, fill us in on the costs of
the
box plus JeppView and a subscription.
I do think that would be sweet though.
The tablet option, with a little scripting work, will cost me the price
of a
laptop/tablet to run the charts on, plus about $10. Annual cost....so
far
$0-10 if you're willing to do a tiny bit of legwork with an old scrap
PC.
Tim
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
> NavData is used by moving maps and GPS units and is a database of
> navaids, airports, etc, and their lat/lons.
>
> If you want terminal charts, you need "JeppView" - a separate (and
> pricier) subscription, as well as something that is compatible to
> display them. (How about a nice Avidyne EX500?)
>
> BTW, when Jesse said the government charts available on many tablets
> aren't "to scale" he really meant they aren't "geo-referenced".
That's
> what allows ownships and flightplans to be overlaid on top.
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:29 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> I'm confused. You have 3 screens, an you need, essentially, a 4th,
> because none of the Cheltons can show Jepp or FAA IFR charts? This
> has taken
me
> by
> surprise. For some reason, when I read their brochure that states
"It's
> loaded with Jeppesen NavData that allows for onscreen flight
> planning...."
> I assumed charts. Yeow.
>
> John Jessen
> ~328 (amazed...and am doing some recalculations and recombinations
of
> various equipment.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 11:53 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> You're right that it will draw the approach on the screen, and it
> actually gives a fair amount of the required info for the approach,
> including flying the missed approach. But, as you noticed, you'll
> still want to have some sort of chart. What I've done so far is to
> start using a tablet PC.
I
> need
> to get out now and fly with it and see how it goes. The sportys DVD
> charts, by the way, are very nice. $10 gets you all of the
> approaches. I got the DVD, and I'll keep the files updated manually
> from the FAA site.
> The thing is, with the stinkin' pen I haven't been able to be very
good
> at
> entering the stuff into the tablet....mine is an old
> Compaq TC1000. So, I think what I'm going to end up with is
> maybe a nicer tablet, or I'll pre-plan most of my approaches and just
> put desktop icons linking me to that particular airport
> before each trip. For local flying, I'll probably just grab
> a few paper charts printer from the FAA site and use those.
> For X/C, you never know what you'll need. It was my intention
> to shop for good tablet charting solutions at SNF, but my time got
eaten
> up
> and I ended up not being able to get much info.
> For the time being though, what I have now would work in a pinch.
>
> FYI: There is one guy who figured out how to display charts on his
> Chelton...but I think it's complicated beyond what most people would
> want to try....hardware mods and additions.
>
> PS: Congrats on the rating....use it often and wisely.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Chris Johnston wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston"
>> --> <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>>
>> Hey all -
>>
>> For those going/have gone the chelton route - what are anyone's
>> thoughts about displaying/viewing things like approach plates or
> enroute
> charts?
>> I put my deposit down on the chelton stuff the day I got back from
>> S-N-F, and I got to thinking about it. I'm a brand new instrument
>> rated pilot (took my checkride the day I left for S-N-F), and I'm
>> tired of lugging around the super-heavy flight bag. I know the
>> chelton will tell you all you need to know about the approach, and
the
>
>> Trutrak autopilot will fly it for you, but I like the idea of being
>> able to see the plate on the screen, possibly with a little airplane
>> super-imposed on it. So do you go "electronic flightbag" with a
>> tablet computer? MX20 is a thought but is a little pricey for what
> little
> I'd be using it for.
>> Plus, I'll be using the freeflight IFR GPS, and 2 SL30s in the panel.
>> No garmin GPS. Has anyone with more IFR experience than me thought
>> about this and arrived at a comfortable, yet suitably cool solution?
>> Be gentle with me. I'm new to this stuff.
>>
>> cj
>> #40410
>> www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
====================================
====================================
====================================
====================================
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I know the approach info is available here;
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
What I can't find is the download links for the enroute Low Altitude
charts. If anyone knows how to get those, pass it on.
Jesse: regarding the Avidyne stuff....Tim works for Avidyne, so
he gets them. Otherwise, it's not an option because they
won't sell to us homebuilders.
John J: At one point I made reference to the Dynon being a "Yugo"
and so on. Given how much absolutely nicer Rob Hickman's new
stuff is, at a not too much higher price point, I think Dynon
is in the lower end. But, please don't anyone take that
implication to mean that I'd think of Randy's panel as a "Yugo".
Randy put some great equipment in there, including an MX-20,
and his panel is very nice indeed. He likes the panel a lot.
I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and
if he'd ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
one of Rob's. But I certainly don't consider his panel to be
low-end. And I agree with you that much of this technology
is unnecessary...and most people will only use a fraction of
the capabilities and could get by with much less. That said,
the reality is that many (not all) people like the gadgets,
and when you're building your own plane, it's *then* that
those decision need to be made as to what will make you happy.
Building and upgrading later is an option, but it's a fun
thought. That's why people sweat it so much.
To the OP Tech lookers: I hope to see a couple people
put them in their -10s. They do look nice. They only suffer
from a lack of exposure in our market. They could end up
being a fantastic thing. We just need to see and hear more.
If someone takes the plunge on them, please keep everyone
informed as to how the process goes and how they work.
Tim
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote:
> I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make
> this same information available to us, the public, for free...one of the
> guys from the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety
> seminar recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these
> updating disc are available from a number of places...but acording to a
> fellow presenting the information we can get it directly, vai a
> download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere out there!!!
>
> Patrick
>
> do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and
> if he'd ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
Hi Tim,
I've read a couple of references to "Rob's offering" and I've
probably missed it somewhere, but what exactly is
"Rob's offering"? Is there a website with info?
Thanks,
-Dj
do not archive
Message 14
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|
Exactly. Talked with them a bit, and they did "pat" the Inertial system,
said that it was a little better than a Cessna. Made me feel better. I,
too, flew C-182Q for awhile, and it did do the job very nicely. I really
liked that plane. If Garmin does offers the G-1000, people like me, who
have a hard time deciding which toothpaste to buy, are going to be in for a
very difficult time when it's time for panel purchases. Garmin, Chelton,
Op, AFS, etc etc. Yeow...
John
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: planning
John,
While the 757 has steam gauges on it, I'm sure it flew by an Inertial Flight
System, guiding the AP system, the IFS is the unit with the key pad sitting
between the right and left seat...the gauges just hook into the system as
does a modern digital box system driving the screen system...the digital
system just may be a little more accurate if it is programmed correctly and
the input data is accurate. How much more accurate would a digital system
be over an analog system, guess that would depend upon how accurate the
software and hardware are.
I get to fly with a G 1000 system, this week coming up it will be going into
the shop to update the software again as Garmin/Cessna have discovered a
number of issues with the product. This is the 3-4th time in the last year
they have had to update the software, one time the plane was down for 3
weeks because the updating software was incorrect and they needed to write a
special patch...the updated software crashed the system. In the mean time
we have an old Q model 182 and it's still running along, IFR with steam
gauges...sure it does not look as nice as the flat panel screens in the T
model, but it's not been down for software issues.
They will both get you from point A to B; it's just a matter of information
display, redundancy, and back up information...whether you look at a chart,
and approach plates printed or view them on a screen the basic data is the
same...it's the presentation and redundancy you're paying for...IMHO.
With the G 1000 system, I don't believe you are required to carry
charts/plates as the memory contains all the enroute and approach plates but
you do need to have a current data base.
Patrick S
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Whoa, I gotta stop you there, Tim.
Avidyne is more than happy to sell products to homebuilders. See your
local Avidyne dealer for pricing and specials. I know at least one RV-7
with an EX500 out there, and some Lancair Kit guys with EX5000s. Our
TAS600 traffic systems (formally Ryan TCAD) are also an attractive
option for active traffic information.
Pretty much our whole product line is available, with the exception of
the (natch) PFD, since we don't really have an "Aftermarket" version of
the PFD . . . yet.
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I know the approach info is available here;
http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
What I can't find is the download links for the enroute Low Altitude
charts. If anyone knows how to get those, pass it on.
Jesse: regarding the Avidyne stuff....Tim works for Avidyne, so
he gets them. Otherwise, it's not an option because they
won't sell to us homebuilders.
John J: At one point I made reference to the Dynon being a "Yugo"
and so on. Given how much absolutely nicer Rob Hickman's new
stuff is, at a not too much higher price point, I think Dynon
is in the lower end. But, please don't anyone take that
implication to mean that I'd think of Randy's panel as a "Yugo".
Randy put some great equipment in there, including an MX-20,
and his panel is very nice indeed. He likes the panel a lot.
I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and
if he'd ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
one of Rob's. But I certainly don't consider his panel to be
low-end. And I agree with you that much of this technology
is unnecessary...and most people will only use a fraction of
the capabilities and could get by with much less. That said,
the reality is that many (not all) people like the gadgets,
and when you're building your own plane, it's *then* that
those decision need to be made as to what will make you happy.
Building and upgrading later is an option, but it's a fun
thought. That's why people sweat it so much.
To the OP Tech lookers: I hope to see a couple people
put them in their -10s. They do look nice. They only suffer
from a lack of exposure in our market. They could end up
being a fantastic thing. We just need to see and hear more.
If someone takes the plunge on them, please keep everyone
informed as to how the process goes and how they work.
Tim
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote:
> I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make
> this same information available to us, the public, for free...one of
the
> guys from the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety
> seminar recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these
> updating disc are available from a number of places...but acording to
a
> fellow presenting the information we can get it directly, vai a
> download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere out there!!!
>
> Patrick
>
> do not archive
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and if he'd
> ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
Hi Tim,
I've read a couple of references to "Rob's offering" and I've probably
missed it somewhere, but what exactly is "Rob's offering"? Is there a
website with info?
Thanks,
-Dj
do not archive
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
It's a very crisp screened EFIS/EIS, at a relatively low cost.
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/
Doesn't have a lot of the features of the GRT and others, such as
mapping built in, but it isn't priced up at that point either.
The crispness of the display is excellent, and should blow away
what dynon is offering. A neat AOA display too.
It may not be a factor for those buying higher end systems, but
for anyone looking at an integrate-able EIS that has panel
realestate to spare, this might be just the ticket. If you
have the setup like I do though, you'd probably opt for the
small model so you can maintain your EFIS/MFD arrangement
without giving up all the space, but this is a way to get
much of the attitude and air data functionality at a lower cost.
Sometimes the hardest part about panel planning isn't what
is *not* offered, it's deciding between the many offerings,
what they will give you, and how much your bank account hold. ;)
Tim
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Dj Merrill wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
>
> Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and
>> if he'd ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
>
>
> Hi Tim,
> I've read a couple of references to "Rob's offering" and I've
> probably missed it somewhere, but what exactly is
> "Rob's offering"? Is there a website with info?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Dj
> do not archive
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> It's a very crisp screened EFIS/EIS, at a relatively low cost.
>
> http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/
>
Thanks! Looks like a nice system. I like that it can be integrated
with
their AOA system that I was considering anyways. I really like the
rotating compass displayed mixed in with the attitude information.
Anyone know if there are any appreciable amount of flying hours
on these units (3400/3500) ?
-Dj
do not archive
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Is that a recent development? I thought a year or so ago
it wasn't an option. I knew that the EX500 is available
to the homebuilders, but I'm talking the big-screen Avidynes....
are those too?
I stand corrected, but I thought that was something I actually
heard from you in the past. Glad it's cleared up. Now,
why didn't you tell me this before I built mine. ;) Those
big avidyne screens are beautiful!
Tim
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> Whoa, I gotta stop you there, Tim.
>
> Avidyne is more than happy to sell products to homebuilders. See your
> local Avidyne dealer for pricing and specials. I know at least one RV-7
> with an EX500 out there, and some Lancair Kit guys with EX5000s. Our
> TAS600 traffic systems (formally Ryan TCAD) are also an attractive
> option for active traffic information.
>
> Pretty much our whole product line is available, with the exception of
> the (natch) PFD, since we don't really have an "Aftermarket" version of
> the PFD . . . yet.
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:09 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I know the approach info is available here;
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
>
> What I can't find is the download links for the enroute Low Altitude
> charts. If anyone knows how to get those, pass it on.
>
>
> Jesse: regarding the Avidyne stuff....Tim works for Avidyne, so
> he gets them. Otherwise, it's not an option because they
> won't sell to us homebuilders.
>
> John J: At one point I made reference to the Dynon being a "Yugo"
> and so on. Given how much absolutely nicer Rob Hickman's new
> stuff is, at a not too much higher price point, I think Dynon
> is in the lower end. But, please don't anyone take that
> implication to mean that I'd think of Randy's panel as a "Yugo".
> Randy put some great equipment in there, including an MX-20,
> and his panel is very nice indeed. He likes the panel a lot.
> I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and
> if he'd ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
> one of Rob's. But I certainly don't consider his panel to be
> low-end. And I agree with you that much of this technology
> is unnecessary...and most people will only use a fraction of
> the capabilities and could get by with much less. That said,
> the reality is that many (not all) people like the gadgets,
> and when you're building your own plane, it's *then* that
> those decision need to be made as to what will make you happy.
> Building and upgrading later is an option, but it's a fun
> thought. That's why people sweat it so much.
>
> To the OP Tech lookers: I hope to see a couple people
> put them in their -10s. They do look nice. They only suffer
> from a lack of exposure in our market. They could end up
> being a fantastic thing. We just need to see and hear more.
> If someone takes the plunge on them, please keep everyone
> informed as to how the process goes and how they work.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote:
>> I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make
>> this same information available to us, the public, for free...one of
> the
>> guys from the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety
>> seminar recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these
>> updating disc are available from a number of places...but acording to
> a
>> fellow presenting the information we can get it directly, vai a
>> download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere out there!!!
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
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| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
The EX5000 (big MFD) has always been available to the "aftermarket",
even if we (Avidyne) didn't really push it as much as the EX500 (smaller
MFD). Sorry for the confusion if I or someone else here created any.
Unfortunately, we don't yet have an "aftermarket" PFD available yet, nor
an "aftermarket" engine solution. (besides my custom one!)
Time will tell . . .
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Is that a recent development? I thought a year or so ago
it wasn't an option. I knew that the EX500 is available
to the homebuilders, but I'm talking the big-screen Avidynes....
are those too?
I stand corrected, but I thought that was something I actually
heard from you in the past. Glad it's cleared up. Now,
why didn't you tell me this before I built mine. ;) Those
big avidyne screens are beautiful!
Tim
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> Whoa, I gotta stop you there, Tim.
>
> Avidyne is more than happy to sell products to homebuilders. See your
> local Avidyne dealer for pricing and specials. I know at least one
RV-7
> with an EX500 out there, and some Lancair Kit guys with EX5000s. Our
> TAS600 traffic systems (formally Ryan TCAD) are also an attractive
> option for active traffic information.
>
> Pretty much our whole product line is available, with the exception of
> the (natch) PFD, since we don't really have an "Aftermarket" version
of
> the PFD . . . yet.
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:09 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I know the approach info is available here;
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
>
> What I can't find is the download links for the enroute Low Altitude
> charts. If anyone knows how to get those, pass it on.
>
>
> Jesse: regarding the Avidyne stuff....Tim works for Avidyne, so
> he gets them. Otherwise, it's not an option because they
> won't sell to us homebuilders.
>
> John J: At one point I made reference to the Dynon being a "Yugo"
> and so on. Given how much absolutely nicer Rob Hickman's new
> stuff is, at a not too much higher price point, I think Dynon
> is in the lower end. But, please don't anyone take that
> implication to mean that I'd think of Randy's panel as a "Yugo".
> Randy put some great equipment in there, including an MX-20,
> and his panel is very nice indeed. He likes the panel a lot.
> I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and
> if he'd ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
> one of Rob's. But I certainly don't consider his panel to be
> low-end. And I agree with you that much of this technology
> is unnecessary...and most people will only use a fraction of
> the capabilities and could get by with much less. That said,
> the reality is that many (not all) people like the gadgets,
> and when you're building your own plane, it's *then* that
> those decision need to be made as to what will make you happy.
> Building and upgrading later is an option, but it's a fun
> thought. That's why people sweat it so much.
>
> To the OP Tech lookers: I hope to see a couple people
> put them in their -10s. They do look nice. They only suffer
> from a lack of exposure in our market. They could end up
> being a fantastic thing. We just need to see and hear more.
> If someone takes the plunge on them, please keep everyone
> informed as to how the process goes and how they work.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote:
>> I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make
>> this same information available to us, the public, for free...one of
> the
>> guys from the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety
>> seminar recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these
>> updating disc are available from a number of places...but acording to
> a
>> fellow presenting the information we can get it directly, vai a
>> download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere out there!!!
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston@popsound.com>
TDT - (so's not to confuse the Tims)
Are the quoted prices for the avidyne gear on the website absolute?
Does everything go for retail? I'm seriously considering active
traffic, and was just wondering. I can't remember if I've ever seen a
quoted price for Avidyne gear other than the avidyne website. Do
dealers get a better price?
Also -
Anyone have a pirep for the jeppesen flightdeck software? I know it
works with their flight planning stuff, and thought it might fit the
bill for charts in the aircraft (tablet PC) and a bit of situational
awareness (little plane moving on chart).
cj
#40410
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
The EX5000 (big MFD) has always been available to the "aftermarket",
even if we (Avidyne) didn't really push it as much as the EX500 (smaller
MFD). Sorry for the confusion if I or someone else here created any.
Unfortunately, we don't yet have an "aftermarket" PFD available yet, nor
an "aftermarket" engine solution. (besides my custom one!)
Time will tell . . .
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Is that a recent development? I thought a year or so ago
it wasn't an option. I knew that the EX500 is available
to the homebuilders, but I'm talking the big-screen Avidynes....
are those too?
I stand corrected, but I thought that was something I actually
heard from you in the past. Glad it's cleared up. Now,
why didn't you tell me this before I built mine. ;) Those
big avidyne screens are beautiful!
Tim
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> Whoa, I gotta stop you there, Tim.
>
> Avidyne is more than happy to sell products to homebuilders. See your
> local Avidyne dealer for pricing and specials. I know at least one
RV-7
> with an EX500 out there, and some Lancair Kit guys with EX5000s. Our
> TAS600 traffic systems (formally Ryan TCAD) are also an attractive
> option for active traffic information.
>
> Pretty much our whole product line is available, with the exception of
> the (natch) PFD, since we don't really have an "Aftermarket" version
of
> the PFD . . . yet.
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:09 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I know the approach info is available here;
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
>
> What I can't find is the download links for the enroute Low Altitude
> charts. If anyone knows how to get those, pass it on.
>
>
> Jesse: regarding the Avidyne stuff....Tim works for Avidyne, so
> he gets them. Otherwise, it's not an option because they
> won't sell to us homebuilders.
>
> John J: At one point I made reference to the Dynon being a "Yugo"
> and so on. Given how much absolutely nicer Rob Hickman's new
> stuff is, at a not too much higher price point, I think Dynon
> is in the lower end. But, please don't anyone take that
> implication to mean that I'd think of Randy's panel as a "Yugo".
> Randy put some great equipment in there, including an MX-20,
> and his panel is very nice indeed. He likes the panel a lot.
> I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and
> if he'd ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
> one of Rob's. But I certainly don't consider his panel to be
> low-end. And I agree with you that much of this technology
> is unnecessary...and most people will only use a fraction of
> the capabilities and could get by with much less. That said,
> the reality is that many (not all) people like the gadgets,
> and when you're building your own plane, it's *then* that
> those decision need to be made as to what will make you happy.
> Building and upgrading later is an option, but it's a fun
> thought. That's why people sweat it so much.
>
> To the OP Tech lookers: I hope to see a couple people
> put them in their -10s. They do look nice. They only suffer
> from a lack of exposure in our market. They could end up
> being a fantastic thing. We just need to see and hear more.
> If someone takes the plunge on them, please keep everyone
> informed as to how the process goes and how they work.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote:
>> I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make
>> this same information available to us, the public, for free...one of
> the
>> guys from the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety
>> seminar recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these
>> updating disc are available from a number of places...but acording to
> a
>> fellow presenting the information we can get it directly, vai a
>> download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere out there!!!
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Those prices are the "list" prices. The dealers do get a dealer price -
but in the avionics world, the retail markup is not as much as you might
think. (Not like the 100% markup any good jewelry store has.)
The big avionics dealers also carry Avidyne stuff, like Eastern
Avionics, Gulf Coast, etc. (Unfortunately, looks like our "Dealer
Locator" link on our website is down right now. I've just reported that
to the web masters.)
We do have some package deals now of an EX500 MFD with a TAS600 traffic
system. Together called an "MHAS6000" and start at $16,985 list. Not
bad when you consider the Ryan active TCAD systems used to cost about
$20,000 before the Avidyne/Ryan merger. Ryan used to sell both passive
and active systems, but now we have moved exclusively to the active
systems. We've divided the traffic products into performance ranges, so
unless you're flying a jet and need the high-end version, the TAS600
traffic system can be offered at $9990. (or in the package above) The
TAS600 plays with many/most MFDs out there, e.g. Cheltons, GNS430/530,
MX20, CNX80, KMD550. The traffic systems are not the most trivial
installation, but it is sweet to have active traffic all the time,
anywhere. And they talk:
"Avidyne's exclusive Heads-Up Audible Position Alerting(tm) verbally
indicates the conflicting aircraft's bearing, range and relative
altitude for rapid visual acquisition of traffic. This automated voice
alert uses the same alert terminology as Air Traffic Control"
http://www.avidyne.com/products/tas600_overview.shtm
Sorry for the sales pitch! : )
As soon as we get flying and can do a good check-out of the traffic
system, I'll post some pictures and information about the install in an
RV-10.
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston"
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
TDT - (so's not to confuse the Tims)
Are the quoted prices for the avidyne gear on the website absolute?
Does everything go for retail? I'm seriously considering active
traffic, and was just wondering. I can't remember if I've ever seen a
quoted price for Avidyne gear other than the avidyne website. Do
dealers get a better price?
Also -
Anyone have a pirep for the jeppesen flightdeck software? I know it
works with their flight planning stuff, and thought it might fit the
bill for charts in the aircraft (tablet PC) and a bit of situational
awareness (little plane moving on chart).
cj
#40410
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:15 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
The EX5000 (big MFD) has always been available to the "aftermarket",
even if we (Avidyne) didn't really push it as much as the EX500 (smaller
MFD). Sorry for the confusion if I or someone else here created any.
Unfortunately, we don't yet have an "aftermarket" PFD available yet, nor
an "aftermarket" engine solution. (besides my custom one!)
Time will tell . . .
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Is that a recent development? I thought a year or so ago
it wasn't an option. I knew that the EX500 is available
to the homebuilders, but I'm talking the big-screen Avidynes....
are those too?
I stand corrected, but I thought that was something I actually
heard from you in the past. Glad it's cleared up. Now,
why didn't you tell me this before I built mine. ;) Those
big avidyne screens are beautiful!
Tim
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
> Whoa, I gotta stop you there, Tim.
>
> Avidyne is more than happy to sell products to homebuilders. See your
> local Avidyne dealer for pricing and specials. I know at least one
RV-7
> with an EX500 out there, and some Lancair Kit guys with EX5000s. Our
> TAS600 traffic systems (formally Ryan TCAD) are also an attractive
> option for active traffic information.
>
> Pretty much our whole product line is available, with the exception of
> the (natch) PFD, since we don't really have an "Aftermarket" version
of
> the PFD . . . yet.
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 10:09 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I know the approach info is available here;
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
>
> What I can't find is the download links for the enroute Low Altitude
> charts. If anyone knows how to get those, pass it on.
>
>
> Jesse: regarding the Avidyne stuff....Tim works for Avidyne, so
> he gets them. Otherwise, it's not an option because they
> won't sell to us homebuilders.
>
> John J: At one point I made reference to the Dynon being a "Yugo"
> and so on. Given how much absolutely nicer Rob Hickman's new
> stuff is, at a not too much higher price point, I think Dynon
> is in the lower end. But, please don't anyone take that
> implication to mean that I'd think of Randy's panel as a "Yugo".
> Randy put some great equipment in there, including an MX-20,
> and his panel is very nice indeed. He likes the panel a lot.
> I'd be curious as to what he thinks about Rob's offering and
> if he'd ever be up for swapping the small dynon out for
> one of Rob's. But I certainly don't consider his panel to be
> low-end. And I agree with you that much of this technology
> is unnecessary...and most people will only use a fraction of
> the capabilities and could get by with much less. That said,
> the reality is that many (not all) people like the gadgets,
> and when you're building your own plane, it's *then* that
> those decision need to be made as to what will make you happy.
> Building and upgrading later is an option, but it's a fun
> thought. That's why people sweat it so much.
>
> To the OP Tech lookers: I hope to see a couple people
> put them in their -10s. They do look nice. They only suffer
> from a lack of exposure in our market. They could end up
> being a fantastic thing. We just need to see and hear more.
> If someone takes the plunge on them, please keep everyone
> informed as to how the process goes and how they work.
>
> Tim
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote:
>> I'll try to see if I can locate a site from the Fed's...they now make
>> this same information available to us, the public, for free...one of
> the
>> guys from the Langley group spoke to local pilots via an FAA safety
>> seminar recently...I'll see if I still have the reference...these
>> updating disc are available from a number of places...but acording to
> a
>> fellow presenting the information we can get it directly, vai a
>> download, from the Fed also for free...it's somewhere out there!!!
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
Tim is this system a "real" active system or is it a TIS system and dependent
upon radar returns from various centers? I believe that with the TCAS system
one needs active interrogation system while in the G 1000 it's a TIS system.
P
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
All of the Avidyne TAS series are true active sensors that send out
their own "pings" and are not passive systems, nor TIS systems. TAS
systems like the Avidyne TAS and L-3 Skywatch are active systems, as is
TCAS, but TCAS has the extra capability of not only giving you Traffic
Alerts (TAs), but also Resolution Advisories (RAs), where the system
coordinates with the other aircraft (if also TCAS), telling one aircraft
to climb and one aircraft to descend. TCAS is what the airliners use.
BTW, G1000 is just a display in regards to traffic. I suppose it can
display TIS from its remote GTX330 transponder, but it will also
interface to an active Avidyne TAS600, or probably even an L-3 Skywatch.
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
Tim is this system a "real" active system or is it a TIS system and
dependent upon radar returns from various centers? I believe that with
the TCAS system one needs active interrogation system while in the G
1000 it's a TIS system.
P
Message 25
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sorry, this is just food for thought.
Let me close my eyes before you all hit me!
Two years ago I landed at Hurricane, Utah after flying 310 miles from from
southern California in my 18 meter non motorized sailplane. This is one of
my common flights as there are many which are much longer in distance and
duration.
A very nice gentle man rode his bicycle out to the runway to help me push my
glider off the runway and onto the ramp. After I had put my glider away
into my trailer with the help of my crew, the man was kind enough to invite
us over to his hanger for a soda and bathroom stop. Inside his hanger sat a
beautiful Bonanza. He explained how wonderful his plane was. He had
autopilot, CD and DVD player and he said he could just get up to altitude
and put a movie in and watch the entire movie while he was traveling. Wow!
My point, I had just flow over three hundred mile, with never taking my hand
off the stick except for when I pissed. I had been cleared through Vegas'
Class B, had a fantastic flight and got to experience all kinds of emotional
feelings and physical sensations and see some unbelievable countryside. The
entire flight I was working to keep my flight progressing all while looking
out my canopy and not being transfixed on my gadgets.
I too have a lot of conflicted emotions about what equipment I will place in
my 10, but I keep thinking about my sailplane and I think about the panels I
have seen in bush planes in Alaska and I wonder, man, these guys in Alaska
are the "da kine" and they don't seem to fly with all this "Stuff".
My biggest problem is the fog that comes into SoCal in the summer months and
I am near the coast. I do not plan on flying over LAX on a routine basis,
but this damm fog could cut me off on my way back from where I really want
to be...the mountains.
With all that said, I say, "I feel your pain." Just remember why we are up
there in the air in the first place...look out the canopy.
We have glider pilots that are in the habit of not looking out the
canopy...first they never leave the immediate vicinity of the airport or
they don't go very far or long. One guy is not allowed to fly from our
airport because he is a danger to all those around him.
I think you all are absolutely amazing in that you know so much about all
this tech stuff and awesome if you can manage everything at all times and
keep looking out the canopy.
Just remember, in the movies...Luke turned off the targeting computer when
he destroyed the Death Star...of course this is the movies. "May the force
be with you."
JG. 409
Do not Archive
>From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: planning
>Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:48:05 -0700
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>I keep doing the numbers and coming up with a range of 120 to 160, but
>never
>below the 120 mark. And sometimes above the 160 fathom. I suggest that in
>some respects the glass craze is becoming just that, and driving up folks
>feel they must spend, along with an engine that compliments same. I bounce
>back and forth between high end and very high end. Let me please take a
>deep breath.
>
>I rode on a 757 the other day and lingered a bit at the open door to the
>flight deck. Nothing but steam gauges. Even still, we seemed to have very
>nicely transitioned from point A to point B, around 3200 miles. I'm going
>glass, mind you, but Randy's Yugo is actually more capable than that 757,
>in
>some ways. Not in others, of course. All I'm saying is that we need to
>get
>a grip. The difference between a Yugo panel and top of the line can be 40
>thousand dollars. $40,000. Yeow. Still gets you there. Got that 757
>there.
>
>So, how much to plan for? You can do a very nice IFR capable plane for
>120k
>or less. But it's hard. I feel like Jason at the mast. The Sirens are
>calling.
>
>John Jessen
> ~328 (I don't know. Seemed like a great idea at the time.)
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:40 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: planning
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
>Acutally, that's probably more correct, except in some cases the 2nd line
>should read 1/4 cost = engine (No FWF).
>
>1/4 Airframe
>1/4 Engine
>1/8 Prop, Paint, Accessories, Interior, FWF
>3/8 Avionics, Panel wiring and assembly
>
>Or something to that effect.
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>John W. Cox wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox"
> > --> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> >
> > Let me add a new fraction in the sphere of EFIS and glass cockpits.
> > 1/4 cost = airframe kit
> > 1/4 cost = engine with FWF
> > 1/2 = prop, paint, panel, avionics, accessories and interior finish.
> >
> > VANS estimates of 90K, Randy's costs and Tim's costs might just shed a
> > more useable light on the RV-10 when estimating. The rest of you
> > flying might through your fractions out for discussion.
> >
> > John - $00.02
> > Do not Archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:07 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: planning
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> >
> > As you might expect there's a wide variation based upon options that
> > you
> >
> > have available to you and the decisions you make relative to those
> > options.
> > Some rules of thumb:
> > 1/3 cost = kit
> > 1/3 cost = engine & prop
> > 1/3 cost = panel
> >
> > The cost of the kit itself is pretty well established, however Van
> > does increaase his prices at the beginning of every year. There are
> > options available for the airframe, (lighting, fuel valve,
> > cowls,plenum, interior panels/ducts/lights that all add cost.
> > Engine, a WIDE variation from used Lycomings (teens $K) to new
> > Lycomings
> >
> > ($40k+) and then Alternative (mostly auto conversions) and then there
> > are options that will add to this (electronic ingition, balancing,
> > cold air induction,oil coolers, & more) Props - again options used to
> > new 2 blade vs 3 blade, metal vs composite, cost range (4-5kused -
> > $15k) Panel - How much money have you got? basic VFR could be done
> > relatively inexpensively, particularly if you scrounge for used
> > instruments, new glass IFR upwards of$40-50k + Tools - you'll buy more
> > along the way.
> >
> > Plug in your decisions and you'll get an ESTIMATE.
> >
> > Then add 10-15% for stuff you didn't think about.
> >
> > Deems Davis # 406
> > Fuse
> > http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
Tim, the G 1000 gives you a trend line and altitude of the target also...but
the signal is a return signal so the traffic is really never where it's
pointed out...but a nice feature along with the 6 second trend line.
P
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Brian Sponcil" <bsponcil@belinblank.org>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@avidyne.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
> traffic system can be offered at $9990. (or in the package above) The
> TAS600 plays with many/most MFDs out there, e.g. Cheltons, GNS430/530,
> MX20, CNX80, KMD550.
How about the GRT EFIS? Although 10k is a non-trivial amount for a slow,
fat, aging computer dude such as myself, it's an upgrade I'd probably shell
out for if it'll talk to one of the non-certified boxes.
-Brian
#40497
N211BD
Iowa City, IA
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
Again, the G1000 is just a display for the traffic sensor. In that
case, the TIS transponder. TIS information is actually transmitted from
a ground based Mode-S radar that is tracking the other aircraft and then
sending the data to you. The track of the targets is calculated by the
system on the ground before being sent up to you. The altitude is from
the target's transponder, and almost all traffic systems will show you
that.
In order to get any traffic with TIS, you need to be within range of a
Mode-S ground radar, which unfortunately they are not installing any
more of, and actually are decommissioning some. I flew the G1000 in a
Diamond out of Las Vegas, and about out near the Hoover Dam, all the
traffic symbols went away, because we left the range of the Mode-S radar
at Las Vegas. (And all of that traffic buzzing around the Grand Canyon
would be nice to see!)
The G1000 will happily display traffic from an active traffic sensor
like the Avidyne TAS600 or L-3 Skywatch.
TDT
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
Tim, the G 1000 gives you a trend line and altitude of the target
also...but the signal is a return signal so the traffic is really never
where it's pointed out...but a nice feature along with the 6 second
trend line.
P
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp Flightdeck |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
Good question for GRT. The TAS600 will spit out standard ARINC 429
traffic information labels . . .
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Sponcil
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Brian Sponcil"
<bsponcil@belinblank.org>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@avidyne.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: IFR related cockpit stuff - Avidyne - Jepp
Flightdeck
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
> traffic system can be offered at $9990. (or in the package above) The
> TAS600 plays with many/most MFDs out there, e.g. Cheltons, GNS430/530,
> MX20, CNX80, KMD550.
How about the GRT EFIS? Although 10k is a non-trivial amount for a slow,
fat, aging computer dude such as myself, it's an upgrade I'd probably
shell
out for if it'll talk to one of the non-certified boxes.
-Brian
#40497
N211BD
Iowa City, IA
Message 30
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| Subject: | IFR related cockpit stuff |
Now that's interesting. So their HITS won't drive the VSGV? What a waste, this
would probably put them out of the running for me.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
Recent RV-10 Build Activity <http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=3D22>
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
I went to Sun N Fun to buy the Chelton or GRT and ended up buying a dual OP Tech
8.4 intergrated system. They were very informative and they are a OEM for a
couple of LSA aircraft. Got to talk to the people who make the LSA one in spain
and they just love it.
Becker is what we get with the intergrated or you can use Garmin SL30 for remote.They
have a mode S transponer but need to write some sofeware, but you can
use a Garmin 330, but it will not be remoted to the display. That is you will
see it on the MFD but can not tune it there. Since traffic is a must in our AC
we will get the garmin 330.
Getting them to put landscape on Epanel next few days so we can decide landscape
or portrait. Having to blow up images to size it looks lilke land scape will
fit better.
I flew the sim at the show and it was OK by me. Reminded me of flying the sim
at training.
The bad thing it looks like I'll be buying the Sorrcier instead of RV10 AP.
Thanks
Pat
257
"RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
I like the OP stuff and have been keeping an eye on it for a while now, especially
with the major jump in Chelton prices. It's still a option for me but I
probably won't do the integrated version. They also don't seem to be real good
about getting any info out to the market about their going on's but then again
neither is the D2AV guys.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:55 PM
To: RV10 LIST
Subject: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
=09
=09
Guess I would be considered one of the newest on the list due to the fact that
I placed my order at SNF. But am looking at an EFIS that I have seen no one mention.
The OP Technologies display. 1. it is larger than Chelton 2. Has an internal
GPS. 3. you can mount radios and Transponder remotely. 4. It displays
approach plates. Oh yeah is a lot cheaper than the chelton system. Will forward
first panel draft by Nick at Park Rapids Avionics.
John Cram
40569 ( waiting on the Emp)
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | IFR related cockpit stuff |
As I understand it (I might not be entirely right, but this is what I
got).....At the moment OP doesn't have the vertical GPS steering software
done yet. I expect they'll have it finished fairly soon though....
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 5:12 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
Now that's interesting. So their HITS won't drive the VSGV? What a
waste, this would probably put them out of the running for me.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
Recent RV-10 Build Activity
--
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:36 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
I went to Sun N Fun to buy the Chelton or GRT and ended up buying a dual
OP Tech 8.4 intergrated system. They were very informative and they are a
OEM for a couple of LSA aircraft. Got to talk to the people who make the LSA
one in spain and they just love it.
Becker is what we get with the intergrated or you can use Garmin SL30 for
remote.They have a mode S transponer but need to write some sofeware, but
you can use a Garmin 330, but it will not be remoted to the display. That is
you will see it on the MFD but can not tune it there. Since traffic is a
must in our AC we will get the garmin 330.
Getting them to put landscape on Epanel next few days so we can decide
landscape or portrait. Having to blow up images to size it looks lilke land
scape will fit better.
I flew the sim at the show and it was OK by me. Reminded me of flying the
sim at training.
The bad thing it looks like I'll be buying the Sorrcier instead of RV10
AP.
Thanks
Pat
257
"RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
I like the OP stuff and have been keeping an eye on it for a while now,
especially with the major jump in Chelton prices. It's still a option for
me but I probably won't do the integrated version. They also don't seem to
be real good about getting any info out to the market about their going on's
but then again neither is the D2AV guys.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:55 PM
To: RV10 LIST
Subject: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
Guess I would be considered one of the newest on the list due to the
fact that I placed my order at SNF. But am looking at an EFIS that I have
seen no one mention. The OP Technologies display. 1. it is larger than
Chelton 2. Has an internal GPS. 3. you can mount radios and Transponder
remotely. 4. It displays approach plates. Oh yeah is a lot cheaper than
the chelton system. Will forward first panel draft by Nick at Park Rapids
Avionics.
John Cram
40569 ( waiting on the Emp)
do not archive
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | IFR related cockpit stuff |
No that's not what I'm saying. I wanted the individual keys for the autopilot
and not have to scroll through some pages to find what I what to be doing. Esp
on a low approach. GRT have theirs on the screen driving the autopilot.
They are a Tru Trak dealer and you would need to ask them about any other Questions
on their systems. I do know they will work with Digiflight II. At least
they have it on their price sheet.
I'm also looking at getting the upgrade of Free Flight GPS.
Pat
0257
"RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
Now that's interesting. So their HITS won't drive the VSGV? What a waste,
this would probably put them out of the running for me.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
Recent RV-10 Build Activity
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Thyssen
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
I went to Sun N Fun to buy the Chelton or GRT and ended up buying a dual OP
Tech 8.4 intergrated system. They were very informative and they are a OEM for
a couple of LSA aircraft. Got to talk to the people who make the LSA one in spain
and they just love it.
Becker is what we get with the intergrated or you can use Garmin SL30 for remote.They
have a mode S transponer but need to write some sofeware, but you can
use a Garmin 330, but it will not be remoted to the display. That is you will
see it on the MFD but can not tune it there. Since traffic is a must in our
AC we will get the garmin 330.
Getting them to put landscape on Epanel next few days so we can decide landscape
or portrait. Having to blow up images to size it looks lilke land scape will
fit better.
I flew the sim at the show and it was OK by me. Reminded me of flying the sim
at training.
The bad thing it looks like I'll be buying the Sorrcier instead of RV10 AP.
Thanks
Pat
257
"RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net> wrote:
I like the OP stuff and have been keeping an eye on it for a while now,
especially with the major jump in Chelton prices. It's still a option for me
but I probably won't do the integrated version. They also don't seem to be real
good about getting any info out to the market about their going on's but then
again neither is the D2AV guys.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
do not archive
---------------------------------
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cram
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: IFR related cockpit stuff
Guess I would be considered one of the newest on the list due to the fact that
I placed my order at SNF. But am looking at an EFIS that I have seen no one
mention. The OP Technologies display. 1. it is larger than Chelton 2. Has an
internal GPS. 3. you can mount radios and Transponder remotely. 4. It displays
approach plates. Oh yeah is a lot cheaper than the chelton system. Will forward
first panel draft by Nick at Park Rapids Avionics.
John Cram
40569 ( waiting on the Emp)
do not archive
Message 33
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Barry Marz or Amy Marz" <blalmarz@earthlink.net>
Just finished my rear windows and wanted to share some info. Did the right
side per plans; it went ok but the Weld-on 10 is messy. On the left side I
put the glue on the window while it was flat; and had my helper guide the
bottom to the correct position then flipped the window into position. Had a
few drips but much better than the right side. Also found a place in LA(
Gavrieli Plastics 818-982-0000) that sells Weld-on 10 in 16 oz. Kits for
$17.00. Blue Skys. Barry
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Removable Rear Windows? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
Does anyone think there would be interest in removable/hinged rear windows
similar to our Legacy windows? Please see:
http://www.aircraftersllc.com/projects/legacyWindow/index.htm
Cost would be around the same as for the Legacy, $579. The Legacy parts
weigh 21 ounces.
My QB arrives next week and I will develop the molds if I can get about 20
orders.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
831-722-9141
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: IFR related cockpit stuff |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
> From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> Date: 2006/04/13 Thu AM 10:09:22 EDT
> Building and upgrading later is an option, but it's a fun
> thought. That's why people sweat it so much.
As somebody who has had my first RV in the air for the past three years, I can
tell you that upgrading is inevitable. Once your plane is paid off and you see
the new cool toys coming out each year, it will be too much temptation to bear
to not add a new gadget here and there. My -7A is all electric and started
out with round guages. Swapped the artificial horizon for a TruTrak solid state
AI, added a switch to the panel labelled "WX Radar" and plumbed in a NavAir
XM weather display running on a Toshiba. The list goes on...
Once a project, always a project. The EFIS are bigger ticket items, but a working
system has some residual value and can be sold to some other builder to make
way for an even cooler tool.
It's why when people ask you when your plane is going to be done, the real answer
is never. (And glad of it!)
-Dan Masys
#40448
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: Removable Rear Windows? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Dave, I'm not all that keen on a removable window, BUT I expect there
would be a much larger interest if you could make some molds for some
window frame covers that could be attached to the inside of the RV10-
cockpit windows, that could be installed on top of the
headliner/upholstery fabric and give the plane a clean/finished look.
From an appearance point of view this is one of the weak points (IMHO)
on the kit, and I've been conjuring how I could address it myself by
making some fiberglass covers/'rings'.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Dave Saylor wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
>
>Does anyone think there would be interest in removable/hinged rear windows
>similar to our Legacy windows? Please see:
>
>http://www.aircraftersllc.com/projects/legacyWindow/index.htm
>
>Cost would be around the same as for the Legacy, $579. The Legacy parts
>weigh 21 ounces.
>
>My QB arrives next week and I will develop the molds if I can get about 20
>orders.
>
>Dave Saylor
>AirCrafters LLC
>831-722-9141
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Removable Rear Windows? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: PJ Seipel <seipel@seznam.cz>
What would you use them for?
PJ
RV-10 #40032
Do not archive
Dave Saylor wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
>
> Does anyone think there would be interest in removable/hinged rear windows
> similar to our Legacy windows? Please see:
>
> http://www.aircraftersllc.com/projects/legacyWindow/index.htm
>
> Cost would be around the same as for the Legacy, $579. The Legacy parts
> weigh 21 ounces.
>
> My QB arrives next week and I will develop the molds if I can get about 20
> orders.
>
> Dave Saylor
> AirCrafters LLC
> 831-722-9141
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "jdalton77" <jdalton77@comcast.net>
more proof that everybody has his own mission - and desires - when it comes
to flying.
Me, I don't see any point in going up and just "punching holes" in the sky.
A $200 hamburger (yes, used to be $100) is just that - and I can get one for
$3 on the ground. But traveling, going places, exploring new frontiers,
THAT's exciting and fun. But that's just me. For that, I may need a GPS.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: planning
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
> Sorry, this is just food for thought.
> Let me close my eyes before you all hit me!
>
> Two years ago I landed at Hurricane, Utah after flying 310 miles from from
> southern California in my 18 meter non motorized sailplane. This is one of
> my common flights as there are many which are much longer in distance and
> duration.
>
> A very nice gentle man rode his bicycle out to the runway to help me push
> my glider off the runway and onto the ramp. After I had put my glider
> away into my trailer with the help of my crew, the man was kind enough to
> invite us over to his hanger for a soda and bathroom stop. Inside his
> hanger sat a beautiful Bonanza. He explained how wonderful his plane was.
> He had autopilot, CD and DVD player and he said he could just get up to
> altitude and put a movie in and watch the entire movie while he was
> traveling. Wow!
>
> My point, I had just flow over three hundred mile, with never taking my
> hand off the stick except for when I pissed. I had been cleared through
> Vegas' Class B, had a fantastic flight and got to experience all kinds of
> emotional feelings and physical sensations and see some unbelievable
> countryside. The entire flight I was working to keep my flight
> progressing all while looking out my canopy and not being transfixed on my
> gadgets.
>
> I too have a lot of conflicted emotions about what equipment I will place
> in my 10, but I keep thinking about my sailplane and I think about the
> panels I have seen in bush planes in Alaska and I wonder, man, these guys
> in Alaska are the "da kine" and they don't seem to fly with all this
> "Stuff".
>
> My biggest problem is the fog that comes into SoCal in the summer months
> and I am near the coast. I do not plan on flying over LAX on a routine
> basis, but this damm fog could cut me off on my way back from where I
> really want to be...the mountains.
>
> With all that said, I say, "I feel your pain." Just remember why we are up
> there in the air in the first place...look out the canopy.
>
> We have glider pilots that are in the habit of not looking out the
> canopy...first they never leave the immediate vicinity of the airport or
> they don't go very far or long. One guy is not allowed to fly from our
> airport because he is a danger to all those around him.
>
> I think you all are absolutely amazing in that you know so much about all
> this tech stuff and awesome if you can manage everything at all times and
> keep looking out the canopy.
>
> Just remember, in the movies...Luke turned off the targeting computer when
> he destroyed the Death Star...of course this is the movies. "May the force
> be with you."
>
> JG. 409
>
> Do not Archive
>
>
>>From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: planning
>>Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:48:05 -0700
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>>
>>I keep doing the numbers and coming up with a range of 120 to 160, but
>>never
>>below the 120 mark. And sometimes above the 160 fathom. I suggest that
>>in
>>some respects the glass craze is becoming just that, and driving up folks
>>feel they must spend, along with an engine that compliments same. I
>>bounce
>>back and forth between high end and very high end. Let me please take a
>>deep breath.
>>
>>I rode on a 757 the other day and lingered a bit at the open door to the
>>flight deck. Nothing but steam gauges. Even still, we seemed to have
>>very
>>nicely transitioned from point A to point B, around 3200 miles. I'm going
>>glass, mind you, but Randy's Yugo is actually more capable than that 757,
>>in
>>some ways. Not in others, of course. All I'm saying is that we need to
>>get
>>a grip. The difference between a Yugo panel and top of the line can be 40
>>thousand dollars. $40,000. Yeow. Still gets you there. Got that 757
>>there.
>>
>>So, how much to plan for? You can do a very nice IFR capable plane for
>>120k
>>or less. But it's hard. I feel like Jason at the mast. The Sirens are
>>calling.
>>
>>John Jessen
>> ~328 (I don't know. Seemed like a great idea at the time.)
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:40 PM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: planning
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>>Acutally, that's probably more correct, except in some cases the 2nd line
>>should read 1/4 cost = engine (No FWF).
>>
>>1/4 Airframe
>>1/4 Engine
>>1/8 Prop, Paint, Accessories, Interior, FWF
>>3/8 Avionics, Panel wiring and assembly
>>
>>Or something to that effect.
>>
>>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>do not archive
>>
>>
>>John W. Cox wrote:
>> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox"
>> > --> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>> >
>> > Let me add a new fraction in the sphere of EFIS and glass cockpits.
>> > 1/4 cost = airframe kit
>> > 1/4 cost = engine with FWF
>> > 1/2 = prop, paint, panel, avionics, accessories and interior finish.
>> >
>> > VANS estimates of 90K, Randy's costs and Tim's costs might just shed a
>> > more useable light on the RV-10 when estimating. The rest of you
>> > flying might through your fractions out for discussion.
>> >
>> > John - $00.02
>> > Do not Archive
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:07 PM
>> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: planning
>> >
>> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>> >
>> > As you might expect there's a wide variation based upon options that
>> > you
>> >
>> > have available to you and the decisions you make relative to those
>> > options.
>> > Some rules of thumb:
>> > 1/3 cost = kit
>> > 1/3 cost = engine & prop
>> > 1/3 cost = panel
>> >
>> > The cost of the kit itself is pretty well established, however Van
>> > does increaase his prices at the beginning of every year. There are
>> > options available for the airframe, (lighting, fuel valve,
>> > cowls,plenum, interior panels/ducts/lights that all add cost.
>> > Engine, a WIDE variation from used Lycomings (teens $K) to new
>> > Lycomings
>> >
>> > ($40k+) and then Alternative (mostly auto conversions) and then there
>> > are options that will add to this (electronic ingition, balancing,
>> > cold air induction,oil coolers, & more) Props - again options used to
>> > new 2 blade vs 3 blade, metal vs composite, cost range (4-5kused -
>> > $15k) Panel - How much money have you got? basic VFR could be done
>> > relatively inexpensively, particularly if you scrounge for used
>> > instruments, new glass IFR upwards of$40-50k + Tools - you'll buy more
>> > along the way.
>> >
>> > Plug in your decisions and you'll get an ESTIMATE.
>> >
>> > Then add 10-15% for stuff you didn't think about.
>> >
>> > Deems Davis # 406
>> > Fuse
>> > http://deemsrv10.com/
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Windows |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
If you haven't bonded in windows before I recommend a call to Phoenix
Composites in Mesa AZ at FFZ. They do this all the time and have some good
procedures that they will share in a phone call.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Marz or Amy Marz" <blalmarz@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:29 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Rear Windows
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Barry Marz or Amy Marz"
> <blalmarz@earthlink.net>
>
> Just finished my rear windows and wanted to share some info. Did the right
> side per plans; it went ok but the Weld-on 10 is messy. On the left side I
> put the glue on the window while it was flat; and had my helper guide the
> bottom to the correct position then flipped the window into position. Had
> a
> few drips but much better than the right side. Also found a place in LA(
> Gavrieli Plastics 818-982-0000) that sells Weld-on 10 in 16 oz. Kits for
> $17.00. Blue Skys. Barry
>
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | aileron trim tension |
Just installed the aileron trim servo/springs in and on the left aileron push rod
and access plate---fairly easy installation but the amount of tension the spings
place on the push rod seems excessive. Don't know how many ft/lbs it takes
to displace the push rod but one has to give a pretty good tug. I rechecked
the distances from the spring attachments and they are okay and the servo lever
goes nicely from stop to stop. But it just seems too stiff. In fact displacing
the rod causes some slight oil canning of the access plate skin. Does anyone
know how "stiff" that action should be, or how to measure it? Or does anyone
else have such concerns? Jay Rowe 40301
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Removable Rear Windows? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Dunne" <acs@acspropeller.com.au>
Yes,
I'd certainly be interested in some window mouldings and trims.
John # 315 Fuse
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Removable Rear Windows?
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Dave, I'm not all that keen on a removable window, BUT I expect there
> would be a much larger interest if you could make some molds for some
> window frame covers that could be attached to the inside of the RV10-
> cockpit windows, that could be installed on top of the
> headliner/upholstery fabric and give the plane a clean/finished look. From
> an appearance point of view this is one of the weak points (IMHO) on the
> kit, and I've been conjuring how I could address it myself by making some
> fiberglass covers/'rings'.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> Dave Saylor wrote:
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
>>
>>Does anyone think there would be interest in removable/hinged rear windows
>>similar to our Legacy windows? Please see:
>>
>>http://www.aircraftersllc.com/projects/legacyWindow/index.htm
>>
>>Cost would be around the same as for the Legacy, $579. The Legacy parts
>>weigh 21 ounces.
>>
>>My QB arrives next week and I will develop the molds if I can get about 20
>>orders.
>>
>>Dave Saylor
>>AirCrafters LLC
>>831-722-9141
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Windows |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Can you share it with us I am sure they dont want 100 phone calls!!
regards Chris
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Windows
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>
> If you haven't bonded in windows before I recommend a call to Phoenix
> Composites in Mesa AZ at FFZ. They do this all the time and have some good
> procedures that they will share in a phone call.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Barry Marz or Amy Marz" <blalmarz@earthlink.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:29 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Rear Windows
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Barry Marz or Amy Marz"
>> <blalmarz@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Just finished my rear windows and wanted to share some info. Did the
>> right
>> side per plans; it went ok but the Weld-on 10 is messy. On the left side
>> I
>> put the glue on the window while it was flat; and had my helper guide the
>> bottom to the correct position then flipped the window into position. Had
>> a
>> few drips but much better than the right side. Also found a place in LA(
>> Gavrieli Plastics 818-982-0000) that sells Weld-on 10 in 16 oz. Kits for
>> $17.00. Blue Skys. Barry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Windows |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
OK but will require a page of text tomorrow. Basically the windows are
glassed in with epoxy/resin, chopped fibers and cabosil. They are held in
place while curing with a number of aluminum "fingers" clecoed to the
surface of the lid on the perimeter of the window. finally a narrow strip of
glass covers the outside flange/edge of the window. The result is window
that is secure and will not crack the paint at the edge after a 100+ hours
of engine vibration.
By the way the same thing goes for the hinge fasteners on the cowl. The
rivets that hold the hinges in the glass cowl will "break through the paint
after 100+ hours and you will see rivet heads in the paint. To eliminate
that problem a narrow strip of glass can be epoxyed over the rivet line and
the rivet heads will not break through the paint
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Windows
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy"
> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>
> Can you share it with us I am sure they dont want 100 phone calls!!
>
> regards Chris
>
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Windows
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>>
>> If you haven't bonded in windows before I recommend a call to Phoenix
>> Composites in Mesa AZ at FFZ. They do this all the time and have some
>> good procedures that they will share in a phone call.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Barry Marz or Amy Marz" <blalmarz@earthlink.net>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 4:29 AM
>> Subject: RV10-List: Rear Windows
>>
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Barry Marz or Amy Marz"
>>> <blalmarz@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Just finished my rear windows and wanted to share some info. Did the
>>> right
>>> side per plans; it went ok but the Weld-on 10 is messy. On the left side
>>> I
>>> put the glue on the window while it was flat; and had my helper guide
>>> the
>>> bottom to the correct position then flipped the window into position.
>>> Had a
>>> few drips but much better than the right side. Also found a place in LA(
>>> Gavrieli Plastics 818-982-0000) that sells Weld-on 10 in 16 oz. Kits for
>>> $17.00. Blue Skys. Barry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Rear Windows |
Dave,
Are you saying NOT to use the window (WELD ON) glue Van's recommends...........and
use epoxy/resin instead? I agree the e-glass around the perimeter is a good
idea,,,,,,,,,what WEGHT of e-glass do they recommend? Just one layer of E-glass
and how do they feather it in to look flawless?
Thanks,
Dean 40449
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
Dave,
Are you saying NOT to use the window (WELD ON)glue Van's recommends...........and
use epoxy/resin instead? I agree the e-glass around the perimeter is a good
idea,,,,,,,,,what WEGHT of e-glass do they recommend? Just one layer of E-glass
and how do they feather it in to look flawless?
Thanks,
Dean 40449
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
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