Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:27 AM - Re: panel (Russell Daves)
2. 05:23 AM - Re: RV Assembly Workshop (Phillips, Jack)
3. 05:53 AM - Re: RV Assembly Workshop (jwik)
4. 06:03 AM - Re: panel (Tim Olson)
5. 06:06 AM - FlightSim RV-10? (Tim Olson)
6. 06:10 AM - Re: RV Assembly Workshop (Phillips, Jack)
7. 06:44 AM - Re: FlightSim RV-10? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
8. 07:07 AM - Re: panel (John Jessen)
9. 07:41 AM - Re: Sun-N-Fun my comments (Randy DeBauw)
10. 09:55 AM - 540 power settings (LessDragProd@aol.com)
11. 11:25 AM - Re: panel (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com)
12. 12:08 PM - Re: panel (Mark Chamberlain)
13. 12:11 PM - Re: Rear floor pans (Jesse Saint)
14. 12:59 PM - "Dual" take-off fuel pump fitting for pressure sender (Ralph E. Capen)
15. 01:11 PM - Re: panel (Dj Merrill)
16. 01:25 PM - Re: panel (Sean Stephens)
17. 02:56 PM - Re: panel (homebuilders?) (Chris)
18. 07:25 PM - Re: 540 power settings (John W. Cox)
19. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: panel (John W. Cox)
20. 07:50 PM - Re: RV Assembly Workshop (bob.kaufmann)
21. 08:08 PM - Re: panel (linn Walters)
22. 08:20 PM - Re: 540 power settings (Richard Sipp)
23. 08:51 PM - Re: FlightSim RV-10? (Otmar)
24. 08:54 PM - flap system install (David McNeill)
Message 1
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My apologies to Stein for the low ball price quote. The reason I said "if he hasn't
gone up" was because I felt that for what he did, a price of $5,000.00 for
labor to build a panel was a steal. I did agree to have my panel displayed
at OSH 2005 as part of the deal and failed to factor into Stein's price quote
any extra discount for such.
I am an attorney for an US & International Avionics Company, and the President
of such company had great things to say about Stein's panel work when he saw my
panel (front and back side before install). Am I happy with SteinAir? You
bet, and I plan on having my -10 at OSH 2006.
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: Stein Bruch
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 10:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: panel
I'll not comment too much on this thread other than to say that there really
is NO typical price for "doing a panel" at all. It will vary wildly, and you'll
find that almost all of the good panel shops including Avinoics Systems & Aerotronics
(and us) will all end up really close in price (probably within a few
% of each other). The typical person probably won't get a panel done for $5K
from any of us. Russ forgot to mention that we used his panel as a display
panel at Oshkosh 2005, along with some other "horse trading" so costs below aren't
really typical. If you've seen Mr.Miller's panel or any of the others turned
out by Avionics Systems and Aerotronics you'll see they do some great work
and that they can be worth every cent you spend. I respect my competition
a lot, Gary & David are two top notch guys who run top notch shops and I'm happy
to say we all get along wonderfully (at least that's what I think:). There
is no way any one of us can do everyone's panels, so we all know there is plenty
of work to keep us all busy.
Please don't take this as "stumping" because I really don't intend for that to
be the case. Moreover I just wanted to try and explain that there isn't a typical
charge for things like this. It depends almost entirely on what you buy,
what you want installed and how, finishing options, timeframe, etc.. I'll
leave you with a parting thought on things like this....
You can have your panel (or anything else aviation for that matter) with the
options below:
1) FAST
2) CHEAP
3) GOOD (High Quality)
Here's the catch....you only get to pick TWO out of the three options. Pick
any two and that's the formula we all use to calculate your panel costs!
Cheers,
Stein.
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
Thanks for all the input. I think we'll try to go to the RV Assembly
workshop they are offering in OSH the last week of August. We'll run up
there in the RV-4 and swing by Mackinac Island on the way home for Karen
to visit a friend. I like the idea of getting her to feel ownership in
the RV-10 project (although every time we take a long trip in the RV-4
she asks "when are we going to build a bigger airplane?"). If I can
pick up just one tip or technique that I don't know already it is
probably worth it.
Jack Phillips
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 11:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Assembly Workshop
I went to Synergy Air's builder's basic course (1 day) and would highly
recommend it. I had started on the tail kit when I went and was doing
fine. After the class, however, my confidence level, workmanship and
speed went up 10 fold. There are so many little tricks you learn that
can make an otherwise tedious/painful/difficult job a piece of cake.
I also attended the 2 day fiberglass and painting class given at
Synergy. That has certainly helped me get through the canopy and cowling
work rapidly.
I think I have made back all the time and money that I invested in the
classes.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 4/19/2006 8:22:35 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
LIKE2LOOP@aol.com writes:
In a message dated 4/19/06 1:04:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com writes:
wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
to just dive in and get started.
I spent an hour last year at Sun n Fun in the metal
workshop tent, doing a few rivets, flush rivets, removing rivets (that
is a good one to learn), then get started. The kit is excellent~!. I
built the tool box kit from Van's.... fun project to do, but just get
started after you drive a few practice rivets. Van's send you scrap
metal in the empennage kit. Drill lots of holes in it and de bur, then
rivet with the size you will use for practice. Us the rivet check gauge
to verify that your shop head is coming out the right size. Then drill a
few rivets out for practice. Simple!
Steve
=09
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
=09
772-475-5556 cell
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly Workshop |
--> RV10-List message posted by: jwik <jwik@crary.com>
With no RV builders in my area as a resource, I obtained some tools and
reference materials prior to ordering my kit to self-instruct. Just
prior to my tail kit arriving I went to the Sportair Workshop in Oshkosh
for the sheet metal class. I learned some very useful techniques and
tips, and the biggest value was reinforcing what I had already
learned, and the confidence that I wasn't launching into it with some
terrible practices.
While there I heard great reviews for the Electrical workshop and will
probably look for an opportunity to attend that as well.
By the way, a recent post had someone out east trying to sell their
tail kit. FYI
Phillips, Jack wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
>As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
>any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
>how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
>lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
>I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
>to just dive in and get started.
>
>Jack Phillips
>Raleigh, NC
>
>Working together. For life.(sm)
>_________________________________________________
>
>This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged,
proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
>
>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Not trying to cut any business from any of the panel builders, but...
I thought before when people posted their bios that there was a
pretty high percentage of geek builders on the list. I fit into
that category. I'm kind of surprised that with the -10 everyone just
assumes they have to have someone build is as opposed to doing it
theirself. If you can wire a car stereo, build network cables, and
make serial cables for PC or controller interfacing, then this stuff
isn't necessarily beyond your reach. As I see it, right if you need
your panel done, you should expect to wait at least 6 months minimum
for most of the shops to get to it. If you go with places like
Aerocraft, with the recent departures of some of their expertise,
I'd bet you need more than a year lead time. There are so many -10's
coming up that there's no way the homebuilt panel industry can handle
all the work that's headed their way. What makes people so fearful
of just digging in on a D-I-Y panel? It's the one way you can
have #1, 2, and 3 of Stein's post, as long as you do good work, and
after you're done you'll understand the inner workings better.
Stein was infinitely helpful in getting my panel to come out the way
it did, as I learned a lot from him. I'm sure if you went to a guy
like him for your avionics, you could get a few tips along the way
too.
Of course, if you're not a geek, by all means you're perhaps better
off farming it out. Just wondering how the whole panel thing
turned into almost 99% professional built when the -10 came out.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robert G. Wright wrote:
> Anyone willing to relate how much they paid to get their panels done for
> them? Thinking about using Stein or others and wondering what all of
> you have paid.
>
>
>
> Rob #392
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | FlightSim RV-10? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Is there anyone who knows anyone who's done a FlightSim RV-10
yet? I'd probably be willing to pay a bit of money for
an RV-10 designed for FlightSim. I don't get the time I
used to to play with those things, otherwise I'd buy the
aircraft designer programs and start on it. If you know of
someone who like that kind of thing though, encourage them to
get a -10 designed and offer it to the list for a small fee.
I'd probably bite.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Yeah, I saw that post about the tail kit for sale. Price was very close
to the kit price, and I would rather just do it myself than have to deal
with someone else's workmanship. When I was looking for an RV-4 to buy
I looked at 7 airplanes before I found one with really good workmanship.
I learned to look at the tail since that is always the first part built
and any flaws usually show there. I figure building the tail will give
me the experience necessary to tackle the wings and fuselage.
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jwik
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Assembly Workshop
--> RV10-List message posted by: jwik <jwik@crary.com>
With no RV builders in my area as a resource, I obtained some tools and
reference materials prior to ordering my kit to self-instruct. Just
prior to my tail kit arriving I went to the Sportair Workshop in Oshkosh
for the sheet metal class. I learned some very useful techniques and
tips, and the biggest value was reinforcing what I had already
learned, and the confidence that I wasn't launching into it with some
terrible practices.
While there I heard great reviews for the Electrical workshop and will
probably look for an opportunity to attend that as well.
By the way, a recent post had someone out east trying to sell their
tail kit. FYI
Phillips, Jack wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
<Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
>As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
>any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
>how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
>lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of
rivets.
>I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
>to just dive in and get started.
>
>Jack Phillips
>Raleigh, NC
>
>Working together. For life.(sm)
>_________________________________________________
>
>This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain
privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have
received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete
the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited.
>
>Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands
- Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Working together. For life.(sm)
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary,
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error,
please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use
of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email
Message 7
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| Subject: | FlightSim RV-10? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
I think there's an RV-10 model out there for X-plane simulator . . .
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:06 AM
Subject: RV10-List: FlightSim RV-10?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Is there anyone who knows anyone who's done a FlightSim RV-10
yet? I'd probably be willing to pay a bit of money for
an RV-10 designed for FlightSim. I don't get the time I
used to to play with those things, otherwise I'd buy the
aircraft designer programs and start on it. If you know of
someone who like that kind of thing though, encourage them to
get a -10 designed and offer it to the list for a small fee.
I'd probably bite.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
Message 8
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
I do not consider myself a geek, I just like to learn about and build
things. Thus, I'm doing my own panel, but I think others may be going the
route of the pros simply because of all the alternatives and gotches that
may be lurking behind the glass. There is also a need to get in the air,
which I feel, but I weigh that against a life-long desire to do it myself.
The problem for many is, of course, time. Money, too, but time is so
limited, and it's the engine and panel where this plane really lives and
helps you live. Building the body is easy compared to the engine and panel,
and it's the latter two that you depend so greatly on.
On my web site I've decided to document the learning journey I'm going to
take to get to the finished panel. The questions that I've asked and
answered, the alternatives, both in terms of functionality and cost, and so
on. I will have panel pictures of those who have already completed theirs,
and a critique of their approach as it relates to my decisions, as well as
links to their panel discussions. Tim's done a great job of this as well,
and the more of us do it the better. A structured approach to panel
building is what we need. Hopefully, given the accumulated body of
knowledge out there we can gather all the necessary questions. Stein and
others are very busy trying to stay up with the onslaught, but maybe they
could think about posting some of the critical decision questions they find
all of us should be asking.
John Jessen
~328 (final deburrrrrring of Tailcone)
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: panel
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Not trying to cut any business from any of the panel builders, but...
I thought before when people posted their bios that there was a pretty high
percentage of geek builders on the list. I fit into that category. I'm
kind of surprised that with the -10 everyone just assumes they have to have
someone build is as opposed to doing it theirself. If you can wire a car
stereo, build network cables, and make serial cables for PC or controller
interfacing, then this stuff isn't necessarily beyond your reach. As I see
it, right if you need your panel done, you should expect to wait at least 6
months minimum for most of the shops to get to it. If you go with places
like Aerocraft, with the recent departures of some of their expertise, I'd
bet you need more than a year lead time. There are so many -10's coming up
that there's no way the homebuilt panel industry can handle all the work
that's headed their way. What makes people so fearful of just digging in on
a D-I-Y panel? It's the one way you can have #1, 2, and 3 of Stein's post,
as long as you do good work, and after you're done you'll understand the
inner workings better.
Stein was infinitely helpful in getting my panel to come out the way it did,
as I learned a lot from him. I'm sure if you went to a guy like him for
your avionics, you could get a few tips along the way too.
Of course, if you're not a geek, by all means you're perhaps better
off farming it out. Just wondering how the whole panel thing
turned into almost 99% professional built when the -10 came out.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robert G. Wright wrote:
> Anyone willing to relate how much they paid to get their panels done
> for them? Thinking about using Stein or others and wondering what all
> of you have paid..
>
>
>
> Rob #392
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun my comments |
Yes and the top of the door is as flush with the skin as the bottom is. The weather
seal keeps it out slightly. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Dunne
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Randy is the top of your baggage door hinge further outboard than the bottom?
I noticed Tim mentioned this and I've got the same result although I couldn't see
how you would insert the hinge pin unless one end wasn't sitting flush?
John 40315 Fuel system
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Thursday, 13 April 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Jesse, I used some weather strip that has adhesive back. It is white and about
=BC" in diameter. I did get some water in through the door at Oshkosh last year
and the carpet was wet about an 1" inside the door. If you remember it REALLY
POURED. Hope all is well. Randy
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:09 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
I haven't spent much time in the back seat except one time that I climbed from
the front to the back to test the different in C/G, but there was no turbulence
then. I haven't heard any complaints at all from back seat passengers, at least
not about waggle.
By the way, Tim and Randy, can you post a picture of how you sealed your baggage
door? We are getting water back there that I assume comes from the door.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
I'm in Ecuador right now and should be back in the country by the end of May.
You may call me at 352-505-1899 and leave a message that I can check from down
here. Any I-TEC questions can be directed to the I-TEC office at 352-465-4545.
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert G. Wright
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Talking to Alex DeDominicis (sp?), The Sorcerer's VOR/ILS/GS functions are removed,
a yaw dampener is added. Alex's wife felt a lot of waggle in the back seat
since it's behind the spar, so he adjusted the software for the price of the
VOR/ILS/GS. In his -10 he can overlay any approach he wants to using the GNS480,
so he sees no real loss of functionality, and he gains the yaw dampener.
Randy, Jesse, Tim, others flying, thoughts about your back seaters' experiences?
Rob #392
Waiting QB shipment
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of GRANSCOTT@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Sun-N-Fun my comments
Sorry TDT you're correct...they do not have it on the web site as of last week,
and other than a pix they did not have a data sheet, that I was aware of, so
the fellow said that it would not intercept the final approach course...I was
assuming he meant an ILS and not a GPS/WAAS approach...but I'm not really sure
that is correct.
Hopefully they will have it on the site soon.
P
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | 540 power settings |
Just some general information on three different 540 power settings.
This information was obtained in an unfinished (unpainted and some fairings
missing) RV-10 with a 3 blade MT Propeller.
The data was taken at 8,000' density altitude, at full throttle (around 23'
MP) and leaned consistently:
2500 RPM 20 gph (Van's standard cruise performance power setting)
2300 RPM 15 gph - airspeed was 1 knot faster than at the 2500 RPM setting.
2100 RPM 12 gph - airspeed was 6 knots slower than at the 2500 RPM setting.
Making the following assumptions: 60 gallons of fuel usable less a 1/2 hour
reserve, and using Van's Aircraft RV-10 cruise performance of about 200 mph.
At 2500 RPM, there is 2 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of 500 miles.
At 2300 RPM, there is 3 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of just over
700 miles.
At 2100 RPM, there is 4 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of almost
870 miles.
Or . . .
At 2100 RPM, after flying for 2 1/2 hours and covering 480 plus miles, you
would still have about half of your fuel remaining.
According to MT Propeller (for a "natural composite" MT Propeller); running
a Lycoming 200 RPM below the manifold pressure is acceptable.
The 2100 RPM 23" MP power setting would be an acceptable cruise power
setting with a "natural composite" MT Propeller.
A commonly accepted lowest RPM power setting for an aluminum blade propeller
would be 2300 RPM at 23" MP. (For anyone that is interested, MT Propeller
does manufacture aluminum blade propellers.)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS A reduction in airspeed with a higher RPM is expected. As an
approximation, the RPM increase is linear, but the horsepower increase requirement
is at
a power of 2.
Message 11
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--> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
In a message dated 4/20/06 9:07 am, Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
<< . I'm kind of surprised that with the -10 everyone just
assumes they have to have someone build is as opposed to doing it
theirself. >>
Tim,
Thanks for chiming in. I am planning to build my own panel...all the posts
were making wonder if there was some mystery I was unaware of.....
Steve
Port St. Lucie, FL
772-475-5556
Sent from my Treo 600
do not archive
Message 12
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer@verizon.net>
I did most of the wiring in my panel as far as switches and breakers. I
installed an Approach Hub system after having the panel cut and painted. I
was very happy with the simplicity. Tell them what equiptment you have, they
will send the harnesses and Hub. One end goes in the avionics tray, the
other in the hub. Just hook up PWR/GND/DIMR and you're good to go!!. I think
the whole set-up was about $1800. Just another way to get it done.
Message 13
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
For those who aren't there yet, it wouldn't hurt to plan ahead on these. We
put them in and drilled the holes when we were clecoing the bottom skins, so
it was easy to get them out by taking the bottom skin off. Then, when you
get to the point where you need to put them in, you won't have to take them
out again, just drop (read - carefully force) them in and rivet them.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of PJ Seipel
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:10 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear floor pans
--> RV10-List message posted by: PJ Seipel <seipel@seznam.cz>
Just did those the other day. The key is to go slowly to avoid bending
them. If possible, have a helper to force apart the side ribs so you
can get the floor pans past the seatbelt anchors. To get them out, I
put cleco's into the #19 nutplate holes, and lifted it up enough to get
several into the #30 holes. I took some popsicle sticks and ground the
ends to make little wedges and used them along the sides and back to
help get the floor pan past the rivets and ribs.
PJ
RV-10 #40032
McGANN wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Listers have previously reported some issues with 'impossible rivets' on
the rear floor pans - but I can't even get to that point. I am having some
trouble fitting the F-1016C rear floor pans. It seems a fair bit of force
is required to insert these panels to get the flanges past the seat belt
attachand point. Once they are in place, there does not appear to be any
way that they will come out - especially if there are any shop heads on the
F1005A assembly. Has anyone else had trouble here? Is there a trick to
inserting/removing these?
>
> thanks in advance
>
> Ron
> #187
> fuse, finishing on the way.
>
--
--
Message 14
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| Subject: | "Dual" take-off fuel pump fitting for pressure sender |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Folks,
I'm looking for a dual fitting that allows the fuel to flow and allows me to either
attach my sender or attach another hose to the firewall mounted manifold...I've
seen these - where do they come from and what's the part number.
Anyone have any pictures?
Thanks,
Ralph
Message 15
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
LIKE2LOOP@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 4/20/06 9:07 am, Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
> << . I'm kind of surprised that with the -10 everyone just
> assumes they have to have someone build is as opposed to doing it
> theirself. >>
>
> Tim,
>
> Thanks for chiming in. I am planning to build my own panel...all the posts
> were making wonder if there was some mystery I was unaware of.....
>
>
>
FWIW, I'm also going to wire my own panel, and likely even
do all the cutouts myself as well. No great mystery, just
time and learning as with the rest of the project... :-)
-Dj
do not archive
Message 16
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <schmoboy@cox.net>
On Apr 20, 2006, at 11:22 AM, LIKE2LOOP@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 4/20/06 9:07 am, Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
> << . I'm kind of surprised that with the -10 everyone just
> assumes they have to have someone build is as opposed to doing it
> theirself. >>
>
> Tim,
>
> Thanks for chiming in. I am planning to build my own panel...all
> the posts
> were making wonder if there was some mystery I was unaware of.....
>
>
> Steve
>
Well, some of us have experience with metal work. Some of us have
experience with fiberglass. Some of us have experience with wiring.
Some of us have experience with engines. Some have experience with
painting. The lucky few have experience with all the above or have a
close resource who has experience to oversee.
And some of us have experience with only one of the above and feel
more comfortable paying someone else to do it.
To each his own.
-Sean #40303
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: panel (homebuilders?) |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris" <toaster73@earthlink.net>
I too am a bit surprised about all the farming out, in everything for that
matter, not just panels. Maybe the "do it all guys" stay quiet. I guess I
feel like the poor guy with lots of time. I may end up with 5 years to get
my plane done which is ok - I am a tinkerer and I want to know how every bit
of that airplane was put together/designed. I will be doing my own
interior, panel/wiring, some of the engine (depending on what ECI might put
out), painting, and slow build kit. I am even utilizing the second
hand/salvage yards when possible ($75 heated pitot probe and homemade
mount). I will probably come up with a copy of that new overhead vent/light
system rather than pay the $1200. I sold my 1951 Bonanza to try and escape
some of the "aviation pricing". I was also thinking of finding that same
1951 Bonanza overhead ventilation scoop in salvage to use on the 10. I like
making and fixing stuff and I like saying "I did that". I think the kit
industry has really made the airplane building so much more accessible to
the non-geeks with a willingness to part with money more than time. It is
all supposed to be a learning experience and in todays industry there are
opportunities to decide just how much you want to learn. Some have time
some have money. Whatever works .
Chris Lucas
#40072
starting fuse and ending wings
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: panel
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Not trying to cut any business from any of the panel builders, but...
> I thought before when people posted their bios that there was a
> pretty high percentage of geek builders on the list.
Message 18
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| Subject: | 540 power settings |
Jim, its great to have hard numbers.
John - KUAO
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LessDragProd@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 8:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 540 power settings
Just some general information on three different 540 power settings.
This information was obtained in an unfinished (unpainted and some
fairings missing) RV-10 with a 3 blade MT Propeller.
The data was taken at 8,000' density altitude, at full throttle (around
23' MP) and leaned consistently:
2500 RPM 20 gph (Van's standard cruise performance power setting)
2300 RPM 15 gph - airspeed was 1 knot faster than at the 2500 RPM
setting.
2100 RPM 12 gph - airspeed was 6 knots slower than at the 2500 RPM
setting.
Making the following assumptions: 60 gallons of fuel usable less a 1/2
hour reserve, and using Van's Aircraft RV-10 cruise performance of about
200 mph.
At 2500 RPM, there is 2 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of 500
miles.
At 2300 RPM, there is 3 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of just
over 700 miles.
At 2100 RPM, there is 4 1/2 hours of fuel available for a range of
almost 870 miles.
Or . . .
At 2100 RPM, after flying for 2 1/2 hours and covering 480 plus miles,
you would still have about half of your fuel remaining.
According to MT Propeller (for a "natural composite" MT Propeller);
running a Lycoming 200 RPM below the manifold pressure is acceptable.
The 2100 RPM 23" MP power setting would be an acceptable cruise power
setting with a "natural composite" MT Propeller.
A commonly accepted lowest RPM power setting for an aluminum blade
propeller would be 2300 RPM at 23" MP. (For anyone that is interested,
MT Propeller does manufacture aluminum blade propellers.)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS A reduction in airspeed with a higher RPM is expected. As an
approximation, the RPM increase is linear, but the horsepower increase
requirement is at a power of 2.
Message 19
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
For the many who are taking the effort to build their own panel, Good
for you. Tim Olson has done a remarkable job showing each of the steps
and how easy it is (was). I can direct any of you to firms that can do
just the panel cutting, just the silk screen, just the wire runs or just
the avionics purchases. It is much easier and more valuable long term
than the money invested in turning the entire project over.
Kitplanes did an excellent article some time back on what makes a great
visually appealing panel with high utility. However, one person's Lexus
can be another's Yugo. And it won't stand the test of being resold to a
third party down the road. Legions can be learned by reading and
studying why Tim selected specific items and why they were placed where
they were. Knowing the wiring (Aero-electric)is a whole nother notch on
the educational road to experimental kit built.
Thanks Tim... cheers to you Steve, the community will be better for more
custom Lexus and fewer mass produced Yugos. Every panel should be a
Lexus.
John - KUAO
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: panel
--> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
In a message dated 4/20/06 9:07 am, Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
<< . I'm kind of surprised that with the -10 everyone just
assumes they have to have someone build is as opposed to doing it
theirself. >>
Tim,
Thanks for chiming in. I am planning to build my own panel...all the
posts
were making wonder if there was some mystery I was unaware of.....
Steve
Port St. Lucie, FL
772-475-5556
Sent from my Treo 600
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | RV Assembly Workshop |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
If you've done that one then you should be good to go. It's easy, and plans
are great. There are some shortcuts to take that most of us will take about
off line.
Bob K
Working on engine
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Masys
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV Assembly Workshop
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack"
<Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
>
> As a prospective RV-10 builder, I have a question of this group: Have
> any of you taken the EAA Sportair Workshop on RV Assembly, and if so,
> how helpful was it? I've built an airplane before, but have not done a
> lot of sheetmetal work, and my wife has only bucked a handful of rivets.
> I can teach her, but wondered if this group recommends the workshops or
> to just dive in and get started.
Maybe I get a minute of fame here for saying that Dan Checkoway and I took
the RV building workshop together back in 2001 (even parked my C182 next to
his Mooney when we both flew into Corona for the event.)
I was already about a month into building the -7 and have to say I didn't
really learn that many new manual skills, though it was a great place to ask
newbie questions. However, the best part was that I took my wife along and
it made a dramatic difference in her ownership of the project and
willingness to serve as "Rosie the Riveter." For that alone it was worth
the price of admission.
-Dan Masys
#40448
Message 21
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The biggest challenge to anyone wiring their own panel is getting good
soldered connections. I use a Weller Solder Station .... the one with
the interchangeable, temperature controlled tips. It's pricey ......
no, not like avionics .... but even a neophyte can solder acceptably
with it. Just be careful and not use too much solder, don't carry
solder to the joint on the soldering iron, and get the joint hot enough
so it melts the solder, not the iron directly. I also like to use clear
heat-shrink tubing over the connection .... especially on the d-sub
connectors.
Linn
Dj Merrill wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
>
>LIKE2LOOP@aol.com wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
>>
>>In a message dated 4/20/06 9:07 am, Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
>><< . I'm kind of surprised that with the -10 everyone just
>>assumes they have to have someone build is as opposed to doing it
>>theirself. >>
>>
>> Tim,
>>
>> Thanks for chiming in. I am planning to build my own panel...all the posts
>>were making wonder if there was some mystery I was unaware of.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> FWIW, I'm also going to wire my own panel, and likely even
>do all the cutouts myself as well. No great mystery, just
>time and learning as with the rest of the project... :-)
>
>-Dj
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: 540 power settings |
Jim:
Are the RPM limits you refer to in the second half of your message MT limits for
their propellers?
The Lycoming IO-540-D series charts from the engine operators manual provide much
broader RPM vs. manifold pressure limits.
Above 5500' there is no manifold pressure limitation for any RPM. Below 5500'
manifold pressure limits are shown; as an example,
at 1800 RPM 24 inches of manifold pressure is the limitation. At sea level and
2200 RPM the manifold pressure limit is 28.5", above 2200 RPM there is no manifold
pressure limit.
These charts show that the old wives tale of not operating "oversquare" is mostly
legend and not a problem as far as Lycoming is concerned.
While I am not suggesting that operating continuously at a limitation is prudent,
very efficient operation does occur at full throttle settings and relatively
low RPMs. An added benefit is smoother and quieter operation as well.
It would be a shame if MT placed more restrictive limits on engine operation than
does the engine manufacturer.
Dick Sipp
40065
According to MT Propeller (for a "natural composite" MT Propeller); running a
Lycoming 200 RPM below the manifold pressure is acceptable.
The 2100 RPM 23" MP power setting would be an acceptable cruise power setting
with a "natural composite" MT Propeller.
A commonly accepted lowest RPM power setting for an aluminum blade propeller
would be 2300 RPM at 23" MP. (For anyone that is interested, MT Propeller does
manufacture aluminum blade propellers.)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
PS A reduction in airspeed with a higher RPM is expected. As an approximation,
the RPM increase is linear, but the horsepower increase requirement is at a
power of 2.
Message 23
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| Subject: | FlightSim RV-10? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Otmar <otlists@evcl.com>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
>
>
>I think there's an RV-10 model out there for X-plane simulator . . .
>
>TDT
>40025
Right here:
http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?autocom=dlmanager&do=viewfile&fid=4593
I have no idea how accurate it is, having not yet flown in a real RV-10.
I found it odd that the simulated RV-10 did not require right rudder
on takeoff. But it sure climbs well compared to the 152's I'm
training in. :)
--
-Otmar-
Contemplating the design of the shop to build a RV-10 in.
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:otlists@evcl.com
do not archive
Message 24
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| Subject: | flap system install |
just finishing the flap system install.
a couple of pointers
Ream all weldment holes to size: AN3 =3D #12 ream AN4 =3D .249 ream
although the plans show installing by inserting through the rear floor area; they
can be inserted more easily via the external hole and pushed to the center.
The outer skin hole should be deburred and smooth. The key is marking all parts
to location and orientation. then wax the torque tubes and insert.
with reference to the flap horn bolts. leave the tunnel parts together but don't
install tunnel bolts. install the flap horn outboard bolt first after sliding
the torque tube as far into the center weldment as possible. then a wrench underneath
and a ratchet extension will allow tightening. Then position the torque
tube properly; the other bolt can be reached with a ratchet extension.vertically
when drilling the flap motor for safety wire you will probably need to drill vertically
about .050 and then horizontally to meet the vertical hole.
lastly this applies to all corrosion treatment of tubes. I clean the inside with
an acetone rinse then spray primer in the end. on the other end is an operating
shop vacuum. the primer is quickly distributed down the pipe.
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