Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:21 AM - MX20 (Jesse Saint)
2. 04:52 AM - Re: Paint Guns (Marcus Cooper)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: Extra fuel tanks (Tim Olson)
4. 05:28 AM - Torque Wrench Extension (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
5. 05:32 AM - Re: MX20 (Tim Olson)
6. 05:48 AM - Re: MX20 (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
7. 05:57 AM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (Tim Olson)
8. 06:39 AM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (Jesse Saint)
9. 07:02 AM - Re: MX20 (Jesse Saint)
10. 07:35 AM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (Kelly McMullen)
11. 07:38 AM - Re: cowling alignment (Cal Hoffman)
12. 07:38 AM - Re: MX20 (Tim Olson)
13. 07:38 AM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
14. 07:45 AM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
15. 07:56 AM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (Rob Kermanj)
16. 08:02 AM - Re: cowling alignment (Tim Olson)
17. 08:03 AM - Re: My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear (Bill Schlatterer)
18. 08:18 AM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (Tim Olson)
19. 09:59 AM - Re: MX20 (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com)
20. 09:59 AM - Re: Auto engine conversion with good links for Lycoming operation (Dan Masys)
21. 11:29 AM - Re: Re: RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop (David Maib)
22. 12:08 PM - Re: MX20 (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
23. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop (John Jessen)
24. 01:01 PM - Re: cowling alignment (Chris , Susie Darcy)
25. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop (Larry Rosen)
26. 03:58 PM - Re: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks (Mark Chamberlain)
27. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks (John W. Cox)
28. 05:07 PM - Re: MX20 (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com)
29. 05:25 PM - Re: Paint Guns (Byron Gillespie)
30. 05:25 PM - Re: MX20 (Jesse Saint)
31. 05:31 PM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (Jesse Saint)
32. 06:02 PM - Riviting the tailcone (Eric_Kallio)
33. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks ()
34. 06:56 PM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (linn Walters)
35. 07:39 PM - Re: Riviting the tailcone (Larry Rosen)
36. 07:39 PM - Re: MX20 (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
37. 07:43 PM - Re: MX20 (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
38. 07:43 PM - Re: Torque Wrench Extension (John Coloccia)
39. 07:58 PM - Re: Riviting the tailcone (Rick)
40. 07:58 PM - Re: Riviting the tailcone (bruce snyder)
41. 08:14 PM - Re: MX20 (Robert G. Wright)
42. 08:14 PM - Riviting the tailcone (MB86967@aol.com)
43. 08:23 PM - Re: Riviting the tailcone (Robert G. Wright)
44. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks (Mark Chamberlain)
45. 08:48 PM - Re: MX20 (Mark Chamberlain)
46. 08:52 PM - Re: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks (LessDragProd@aol.com)
47. 08:56 PM - RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop (dmaib@mac.com)
48. 09:09 PM - Re: MX20 (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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I know this is probably not the best list for this, but can anybody give
me
a quick rundown on the MX20, its options, the different weather systems
that
it will run with and a few pros/cons of it and them? If anybody has a
good
link that would work too. I can=92t find any good info on the web and
the
Garmin website is practically useless as far as that goes.
Thanks and do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
--
Message 2
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
Thanks John, good info. It sounds like you have quite a bit of experience,
do you also favor the SATA guns or do you prefer something else?
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 1:29 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint Guns
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
The biggest difference is in the precision of the air metering
circuitry, spring tensions and quality of adjustment in the spray
pattern. The differences do not really show themselves until cleanup
and adjustment after exposure to chemicals and paint materials. I have
some guns that look battle wary yet throw a perfect pattern after 30
years and I have some Chinese made which look gorgeous after 30 days and
lay an atrocious pattern.
The ability to lay a uniform line with no edge fade or heavier
application of topcoat is not visual by looking at the gun but rather
the applied paint on the job. The pleasure of pulling a trigger for a
12 hour episode versus blisters after two is a strange measure of
difference.
John $00.02
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 7:12 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Paint Guns
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I'm sure this'll create some discussion, but I was wondering what
(besides
hundreds of $s) is the real difference in HVLP guns on the market. The
SATA
seems very popular, and I know you get what you pay for, but exactly how
is
it different than the $100 HVLP guns that look similar from a distance
at
the auto parts store or Lowe's?
Thanks, and sorry if it's deemed a stupid question.
Marcus
40286 - stuck on wiring
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Extra fuel tanks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Rent one from an RV-10 builder who bought one but didn't install
it yet. Still cheaper than shipping the MT across the country
twice.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
LessDragProd@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Tim,
>
> A little oops here.
>
> The Hartzell RV-10 propeller is unique to the RV-10. And only an RV-10
> builder can buy one.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 04/28/2006 8:39:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Tim@MyRV10.com writes:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> (Stuff Cut)
> Maybe it should go the other way....offer a Hartzell to someone
> flying an MT. It's a cheaper prop to ship, and to buy to send them.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Torque Wrench Extension |
I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group. There
are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt (namely engine
mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the starter/alternator wires on the
engine case). Instead of purchasing expensive extensions or welding something
up
I found that if you take an ordinary combination wrench and put a bolt/nut
with washers through the closed end you have a perfect extension. And you get
to keep your wrench intact. See photo below.
You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when using
an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's a website
that will do the math for you:
_http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php_
(http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php)
This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came across
this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
Jim McGrew
#40134 - Fire Wall Forward
Message 5
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
It's been a while since I looked at them, so this is dated and faded,
but...
The MX-20 runs with only one weather module, and that's the GDL-69,
and it can only support XM weather, not WSI. In order to interface
with traffic, you also can't just buy the MX-20, but need the
Expanded I/O version, which costs more money. They also have the
Chart View option, which allows you to put approach charts and
airport diagrams on screen, but this is not at all a cheap option
either, to either add or maintain the subscription. When you put
together an MX-20 system with all those options, you'll have a
lot of cash tied up in the MX-20. Leave off the Chart View and
it still costs a ton, but it's at least less painful. It is
a fantastically beautiful box though, with great graphics, and
is a system that anyone who buys will fall in love with. The
same can be said for the Avidyne EX-500, which I personally like
the looks of better than the MX-20. There are a few things that
seemingly make an MX-20 + GNS-480 a good combo, and an Avidyne
EX-500 + GNS-4/530 a good combo. But it seems that you may lose
a couple minor things by trying to match them up differently,
so IMHO if you like the MX-20, you should look at the GNS-480
as the mating radio. To do traffic you still need the GTX-330.
http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/
Interestingly, it was the cost of the MX-20 and the options
required that caused me to switch to the Chelton system in my
plan. With that system, most things can be added a little
less painfully. In addition, they interface with WSI, and later
this year they will be working with XM weather. They interface
with various traffic systems, and strikefinder, and will probably
be more upgradeable as systems change down the road, being an
experimental system. I do know of one person who has electronic
charts on theirs, but it's a custom hack that is probably
not something that most or any other builders would attempt,
but it is cool that there's someone who knows the guts of them
well enough to do that.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I know this is probably not the best list for this, but can anybody give
> me a quick rundown on the MX20, its options, the different weather
> systems that it will run with and a few pros/cons of it and them? If
> anybody has a good link that would work too. I cant find any good info
> on the web and the Garmin website is practically useless as far as that
> goes.
>
>
Message 6
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Thanks for the plug, Tim!
Here's some EX500 info, for those interested. Note traffic interface,
lightining interface, and XM weather interface are standard. CMax
charts (JeppView) is an option.
http://www.avidyne.com/products/ex500.shtm
and a comparison against MX-20:
http://www.avidyne.com/products/ex500_comparison.shtm
(note pricing in this example includes a onboard radar interface)
and, unfortunately, the price list:
http://www.avidyne.com/products/pricing.shtm
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson
Sent: Sat 4/29/2006 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: MX20
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
It's been a while since I looked at them, so this is dated and faded,
but...
The MX-20 runs with only one weather module, and that's the GDL-69,
and it can only support XM weather, not WSI. In order to interface
with traffic, you also can't just buy the MX-20, but need the
Expanded I/O version, which costs more money. They also have the
Chart View option, which allows you to put approach charts and
airport diagrams on screen, but this is not at all a cheap option
either, to either add or maintain the subscription. When you put
together an MX-20 system with all those options, you'll have a
lot of cash tied up in the MX-20. Leave off the Chart View and
it still costs a ton, but it's at least less painful. It is
a fantastically beautiful box though, with great graphics, and
is a system that anyone who buys will fall in love with. The
same can be said for the Avidyne EX-500, which I personally like
the looks of better than the MX-20. There are a few things that
seemingly make an MX-20 + GNS-480 a good combo, and an Avidyne
EX-500 + GNS-4/530 a good combo. But it seems that you may lose
a couple minor things by trying to match them up differently,
so IMHO if you like the MX-20, you should look at the GNS-480
as the mating radio. To do traffic you still need the GTX-330.
http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/
Interestingly, it was the cost of the MX-20 and the options
required that caused me to switch to the Chelton system in my
plan. With that system, most things can be added a little
less painfully. In addition, they interface with WSI, and later
this year they will be working with XM weather. They interface
with various traffic systems, and strikefinder, and will probably
be more upgradeable as systems change down the road, being an
experimental system. I do know of one person who has electronic
charts on theirs, but it's a custom hack that is probably
not something that most or any other builders would attempt,
but it is cool that there's someone who knows the guts of them
well enough to do that.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I know this is probably not the best list for this, but can anybody
give
> me a quick rundown on the MX20, its options, the different weather
> systems that it will run with and a few pros/cons of it and them? If
> anybody has a good link that would work too. I can't find any good
info
> on the web and the Garmin website is practically useless as far as
that
> goes.
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Jim, that is a genius idea! I cobbled something together when
I did my prop bolts, and used an online torque calculator to
verify my own calculations on torque, but this wrench extension
is pure genius compared to what I did. I'm going to put this
directly into the tips section on my site for permanent viewing
and for those who only get the daily digest.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
JSMcGrew@aol.com wrote:
> I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group.
> There are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt
> (namely engine mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the
> starter/alternator wires on the engine case). Instead of purchasing
> expensive extensions or welding something up I found that if you take an
> ordinary combination wrench and put a bolt/nut with washers through the
> closed end you have a perfect extension. And you get to keep your wrench
> intact. See photo below.
>
> You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when
> using an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's
> a website that will do the math for you:
>
> http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php
>
> This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came
> across this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
>
> Jim McGrew
> #40134 - Fire Wall Forward
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Torque Wrench Extension |
That=92s a great idea.
I have one issue with this website. It has you input the length of your
existing torque wrench, then the length with the extension. I
understand
wanting to know the length from the center of the drive to the
break-away
point, but what in the world difference can the length of the handle
mean?
Does it really make a different torque value if you grab the handle at
the
end or =93choke up=94 to the head? Am I really missing something huge
here?
Also, I heard from an A&P school that if you put the extension at 90
degrees, then the torque value on the wrench is accurate, but then, of
course, you can=92t use the racheting feature of the torque wrench, or
you
will lose your 90 degrees.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Torque Wrench Extension
I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group.
There
are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt (namely
engine mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the starter/alternator
wires on
the engine case). Instead of purchasing expensive extensions or welding
something up I found that if you take an ordinary combination wrench and
put
a bolt/nut with washers through the closed end you have a perfect
extension.
And you get to keep your wrench intact. See photo below.
You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when
using
an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's a
website
that will do the math for you:
HYPERLINK
"http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php"http://www.nor=
bar
.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php
This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came
across
this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
Jim McGrew
#40134 - Fire Wall Forward
--
--
Message 9
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Do you know how much it is to add plates to the MX20? From my reading it
seemed like it was included in the normal unit, which certainly could be
wrong. From my research, it does work with WSI weather. At least that is
advertised in a lot of places. Has that option been removed or is it new?
Also, even with the Garmin weather, the unit is $5,900, the weather option
another $3,700 or so, then whatever the plates cost. The Avidyne (retail)
runs $7,200, another $2,500 for the plates, and then the cost of the WX
weather add-on, which is about $1,000, right (if this is available yet)?
Plus the Avidyne is a smaller screen (granted, only 1/2 inch smaller). Am I
missing something, TDT? I like the looks of the EX-500, but what really
makes it better or cheaper?
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: MX20
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
It's been a while since I looked at them, so this is dated and faded,
but...
The MX-20 runs with only one weather module, and that's the GDL-69,
and it can only support XM weather, not WSI. In order to interface
with traffic, you also can't just buy the MX-20, but need the
Expanded I/O version, which costs more money. They also have the
Chart View option, which allows you to put approach charts and
airport diagrams on screen, but this is not at all a cheap option
either, to either add or maintain the subscription. When you put
together an MX-20 system with all those options, you'll have a
lot of cash tied up in the MX-20. Leave off the Chart View and
it still costs a ton, but it's at least less painful. It is
a fantastically beautiful box though, with great graphics, and
is a system that anyone who buys will fall in love with. The
same can be said for the Avidyne EX-500, which I personally like
the looks of better than the MX-20. There are a few things that
seemingly make an MX-20 + GNS-480 a good combo, and an Avidyne
EX-500 + GNS-4/530 a good combo. But it seems that you may lose
a couple minor things by trying to match them up differently,
so IMHO if you like the MX-20, you should look at the GNS-480
as the mating radio. To do traffic you still need the GTX-330.
http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/
Interestingly, it was the cost of the MX-20 and the options
required that caused me to switch to the Chelton system in my
plan. With that system, most things can be added a little
less painfully. In addition, they interface with WSI, and later
this year they will be working with XM weather. They interface
with various traffic systems, and strikefinder, and will probably
be more upgradeable as systems change down the road, being an
experimental system. I do know of one person who has electronic
charts on theirs, but it's a custom hack that is probably
not something that most or any other builders would attempt,
but it is cool that there's someone who knows the guts of them
well enough to do that.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I know this is probably not the best list for this, but can anybody give
> me a quick rundown on the MX20, its options, the different weather
> systems that it will run with and a few pros/cons of it and them? If
> anybody has a good link that would work too. I cant find any good info
> on the web and the Garmin website is practically useless as far as that
> goes.
>
>
--
--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
While it is an inventive way to do it, I wonder about the impact of the
angle on the wrench shown, and might point out that a set of crow's foot
wrenches from Sears isn't all that much money. The crow's foot works
fine on Hartzel props.
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Jim, that is a genius idea! I cobbled something together when
> I did my prop bolts, and used an online torque calculator to
> verify my own calculations on torque, but this wrench extension
> is pure genius compared to what I did. I'm going to put this
> directly into the tips section on my site for permanent viewing
> and for those who only get the daily digest.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: cowling alignment |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman@bellsouth.net>
Since my finishing kit is being delivered Monday, I have not reviewed the
instructions. Is there a write-up of the specific tasks to align the cowl
as you have?
In other words, deviations from the Van's instructions.
Cal Hoffman (canoe)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: cowling alignment
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I did this. With just over 60 hours it hasn't had time to settle yet.
> I've pretty much consistently heard it will happen though.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Richard Sipp wrote:
> > On the earlier RV models it was common to align the cowling so that the
> > top edge of the forward cowling was 1/8" or so lower than the prop
> > spinner. The theory was that the engine would settle about that amount
> > in operation and "sag" into good alignment.
> >
> > Of those flying, did any of you do this? If not have you noticed and
> > settling of the engine in the early operations?
> >
> > Like many subjects there was always a good bit of debate about whether
> > or not this settling happened and if the technique worked or was
necessary.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Dick Sipp
> > 40065
>
>
Message 12
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Chart View is about $1900 at actual street prices. I think
you're right. You can buy WSI for the MX-20 using the
AV100TS receiver. What's not clear is if you need any other
hardware then from Garmin: "The launch Multi-functional display for WSI
InFlight, the Garmin MX20 features display code written specifically for
the WSI service."
Also, the MX-20 price you listed is not the one with the expanded
I/O. That costs more.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> Do you know how much it is to add plates to the MX20? From my reading it
> seemed like it was included in the normal unit, which certainly could be
> wrong. From my research, it does work with WSI weather. At least that is
> advertised in a lot of places. Has that option been removed or is it new?
> Also, even with the Garmin weather, the unit is $5,900, the weather option
> another $3,700 or so, then whatever the plates cost. The Avidyne (retail)
> runs $7,200, another $2,500 for the plates, and then the cost of the WX
> weather add-on, which is about $1,000, right (if this is available yet)?
> Plus the Avidyne is a smaller screen (granted, only 1/2 inch smaller). Am I
> missing something, TDT? I like the looks of the EX-500, but what really
> makes it better or cheaper?
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> 352-465-4545
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:32 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: MX20
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> It's been a while since I looked at them, so this is dated and faded,
> but...
>
> The MX-20 runs with only one weather module, and that's the GDL-69,
> and it can only support XM weather, not WSI. In order to interface
> with traffic, you also can't just buy the MX-20, but need the
> Expanded I/O version, which costs more money. They also have the
> Chart View option, which allows you to put approach charts and
> airport diagrams on screen, but this is not at all a cheap option
> either, to either add or maintain the subscription. When you put
> together an MX-20 system with all those options, you'll have a
> lot of cash tied up in the MX-20. Leave off the Chart View and
> it still costs a ton, but it's at least less painful. It is
> a fantastically beautiful box though, with great graphics, and
> is a system that anyone who buys will fall in love with. The
> same can be said for the Avidyne EX-500, which I personally like
> the looks of better than the MX-20. There are a few things that
> seemingly make an MX-20 + GNS-480 a good combo, and an Avidyne
> EX-500 + GNS-4/530 a good combo. But it seems that you may lose
> a couple minor things by trying to match them up differently,
> so IMHO if you like the MX-20, you should look at the GNS-480
> as the mating radio. To do traffic you still need the GTX-330.
>
> http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/
>
> Interestingly, it was the cost of the MX-20 and the options
> required that caused me to switch to the Chelton system in my
> plan. With that system, most things can be added a little
> less painfully. In addition, they interface with WSI, and later
> this year they will be working with XM weather. They interface
> with various traffic systems, and strikefinder, and will probably
> be more upgradeable as systems change down the road, being an
> experimental system. I do know of one person who has electronic
> charts on theirs, but it's a custom hack that is probably
> not something that most or any other builders would attempt,
> but it is cool that there's someone who knows the guts of them
> well enough to do that.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Jesse Saint wrote:
>> I know this is probably not the best list for this, but can anybody give
>> me a quick rundown on the MX20, its options, the different weather
>> systems that it will run with and a few pros/cons of it and them? If
>> anybody has a good link that would work too. I cant find any good info
>> on the web and the Garmin website is practically useless as far as that
>> goes.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
Jesse,
This falls in the category of waxing philosophical on a subject and that
doesn't help get my plane in the air any faster BUT I'm totally with you. I=20=
struggled with that as well so here goes.
If you are working with a beam type torque wrench you must hold it on the
handle and center the handle on its pivot in order to get an accurate readi=
ng,
in this case it is easy to understand why the calculation needs the torque
wrench length. With the micrometer or "click" type torque wrenches you don'=
t
necessarily have to hold it by the handle to get an accurate torque because=
the
spring is set to the value you want - that is, unless you are using an
extension.
Hang with me and please excuse the math, this is how I understand it.
Consider the following 2 cases:
You are using a 20 inch long micrometer type torque wrench set at 100 in-lb=
s
attached to a 10 inch extension.
1) If you hold the torque wrench by the handle you must apply 5 lbs of forc=
e
to create 100 in-lbs of moment (torque) at the head and cause it to click (=
5
lbs x 20"). At the end of your 10" extension you are creating 150 in-lbs of=
torque (5 lbs x 30 inches).
2) If you "choke" up on the torque wrench and hold it, say, 10" from the
head you must apply 10 lbs of force in order to get it to click at 100 in-lb=
s.
Now at the end of your 10" extension you are applying 200 in-lbs of torque (=
10
lbs x 20 inches)
As far as using the extension other than straight - I'm not an A&P, but I a=
m
an engineer and the math tells me that bending the torque wrench does make =20=
a
difference. Your moment arm now becomes the hypotenuse of the triangle
created by the torque wrench and extension. The further you bend the extens=
ion the
shorter your moment arm becomes and, thus, the less torque you have at the
end of your extension. This is a minor correction until the angle starts
getting beyond about 45 degrees. I will skip the geometry involved. Conside=
r the
case if you bent the extension all the way back toward you, aligned with th=
e
torque wrench... now the moment arm is equal to the length of the torque wr=
ench
MINUS the length of the extension.
Sorry for the dissertation. I had to prove this to myself before I torqued
my prop bolts.
The bottom line: The website calculation works for a straight extension.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 4/29/2006 7:43:37 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
jesse@itecusa.org writes:
That=E2=80=99s a great idea.
I have one issue with this website. It has you input the length of your
existing torque wrench, then the length with the extension. I understand
wanting to know the length from the center of the drive to the break-away p=
oint,
but what in the world difference can the length of the handle mean? Does i=
t
really make a different torque value if you grab the handle at the end or=20=
=E2=80=9C
choke up=E2=80=9D to the head? Am I really missing something huge here?
Also, I heard from an A&P school that if you put the extension at 90
degrees, then the torque value on the wrench is accurate, but then, of cour=
se, you
can=E2=80=99t use the racheting feature of the torque wrench, or you will l=
ose your 90
degrees.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
_jesse@itecusa.org_ (mailto:jesse@itecusa.org)
_www.itecusa.org_ (http://www.itecusa.org/)
352-465-4545
____________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Torque Wrench Extension
I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group. There
are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt (namely engi=
ne
mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the starter/alternator wires on the
engine case). Instead of purchasing expensive extensions or welding somethi=
ng up
I found that if you take an ordinary combination wrench and put a bolt/nut
with washers through the closed end you have a perfect extension. And you g=
et
to keep your wrench intact. See photo below.
You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when using=
an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's a websit=
e
that will do the math for you:
_http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php_
(http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php)
This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came across
this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
Jim McGrew
#40134 - Fire Wall Forward
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew@aol.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
I had a few places where the crow's feet didn't work for me. I won't get
into details... in my opinion the angle of the wrench doesn't make an
appreciable difference.
Jim
In a message dated 4/29/2006 8:36:26 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
kellym@aviating.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
While it is an inventive way to do it, I wonder about the impact of the
angle on the wrench shown, and might point out that a set of crow's foot
wrenches from Sears isn't all that much money. The crow's foot works
fine on Hartzel props.
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Jim, that is a genius idea! I cobbled something together when
> I did my prop bolts, and used an online torque calculator to
> verify my own calculations on torque, but this wrench extension
> is pure genius compared to what I did. I'm going to put this
> directly into the tips section on my site for permanent viewing
> and for those who only get the daily digest.
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/generaltips.html
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew@aol.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10@gmail.com>
Great Idea! I used a expensive Crows Foot but had to go and shop for
it. This would have done just fine.
do not archive.
On 4/29/06, JSMcGrew@aol.com <JSMcGrew@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group. There
> are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt (namely
> engine mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the starter/alternator wires on
> the engine case). Instead of purchasing expensive extensions or welding
> something up I found that if you take an ordinary combination wrench and put
> a bolt/nut with washers through the closed end you have a perfect extension.
> And you get to keep your wrench intact. See photo below.
>
> You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when using
> an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's a website
> that will do the math for you:
>
> http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php
>
> This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came across
> this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
>
> Jim McGrew
> #40134 - Fire Wall Forward
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: cowling alignment |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I can't remember if they specified it in the plans or not, but I think
-7 builders tell me it's in their plans. At any rate, you just
position the cowl so the prop spinner is not perfectly in line with
the top of the cowl (which looks the smoothest), but make the spinner
a little higher. The amount varies...some people say .125", and some
say .250". I think getting it that precise will be a bit tricky,
but if you shoot for something in that range you'll certainly end
up happier in the end if/after it sags than you would if you
aligned it smooth from day 1. Others want to comment on sag amount?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Cal Hoffman wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman@bellsouth.net>
>
> Since my finishing kit is being delivered Monday, I have not reviewed the
> instructions. Is there a write-up of the specific tasks to align the cowl
> as you have?
> In other words, deviations from the Van's instructions.
>
> Cal Hoffman (canoe)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: cowling alignment
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>
>> I did this. With just over 60 hours it hasn't had time to settle yet.
>> I've pretty much consistently heard it will happen though.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> Richard Sipp wrote:
>>> On the earlier RV models it was common to align the cowling so that the
>>> top edge of the forward cowling was 1/8" or so lower than the prop
>>> spinner. The theory was that the engine would settle about that amount
>>> in operation and "sag" into good alignment.
>>>
>>> Of those flying, did any of you do this? If not have you noticed and
>>> settling of the engine in the early operations?
>>>
>>> Like many subjects there was always a good bit of debate about whether
>>> or not this settling happened and if the technique worked or was
> necessary.
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Dick Sipp
>>> 40065
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer@sbcglobal.net>
Rick, just a follow up. The only mission here is to get a uniform hole with
no play or as little play as possible. A 5/16 bolt is .3125 so a .3111
reamer will make any 5/16 bolt a snug fit. ( 3125-3111 = .0014) A 3125
reamer with a close tolerance bolt should also be fine. I used the straight
fluted reamer in an electric hand drill turning fairly slowly with some
Bolube for lubricant and it was way less trouble than I ever imagined. I
spent way more time agonizing than doing. It went like butter.
Many folks recommend putting the "shank" of the reamer through the hole fist
and then attaching the drill and pulling the reamer back through. That's
because the shoulder on the back of the reamer has a little slope to it and
the front does not. I did not find it to be a problem just using it like a
drill. Going directly to a 3125 did not require "pre-drilling" so I would
think starting with a 3111 would not either.
The only reason to use a reamer instead of a drill is that drills leave a
somewhat triangular hole instead of a truly round hole. The round hole with
a close tolerance bolt or slightly oversize will obviously have more bearing
surface in the reamed hole than in the drilled hole.
Many folks have just drilled them and it seems to work fine so I would think
that any combination of the reamer options would be fine. First best option
is the 3111 and then 5/16 reamer 3125 and a CT bolt.
My .02
Bill S
7a
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Conti, Rick
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti@boeing.com>
Bob,
I'm not sure I understand. I've never used a reamer and just realized I
shouldn't use an air drill with a reamer. Maybe the hand wrench from my tap
& die set.
What under size hole did you drill before using the .311" reamer?
Please explain the grinding of the shoulders at the reamer stem side to be
able to pull up and through.
Does any of this make sense without using a close tolerance bolt?
Bill suggested using a .3125 reamer with a 5/16" close tolerance bolt.
All of which sounds good.
Thank You
Rick Conti
Senior Engineering Manager
The Boeing Company
office: 703 - 414 - 6141
blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Kermanj [mailto:flysrv10@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: My 2 Cents on the Landing Gear
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10@gmail.com>
I used the same reamer as you have purchased. I found it easier to insert
the reamer from the button, chuck it and pull it through the hole. If you
decide to do this, you may need to grind the blade shoulders at the reamer
stem side to be able to pull up through.
On 4/26/06, Conti, Rick <rick.conti@boeing.com> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" <rick.conti@boeing.com>
>
> Whenever I start a new "kit", I review the instructions several times,
> once to ensure I have the necessary tools and parts. The .311" drill
> bit appeared to be a problem. I called Van's and received an
> interesting answer: I was told a 5/16 bit would be okay. I haven't
> installed the gear yet and after reading about loose landing gear I
had
> second thoughts. I received my .311" reamer from McMaster-Carr
(thanks
> for the info) yesterday. But is has occurred to me, that 5/16" would
be
> fine provided the bolt matched. Drilling with a 5/16" bit though the
> leg and support would not cause a problem. The problem would be from
an
> undersized bolt. Would everyone agree 5/16" would be okay with a
proper
> (precise fit) bolt?
>
> Thank You
> Rick Conti
> Senior Engineering Manager
> The Boeing Company
> office: 703 - 414 - 6141
> blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
A note about the crow's foot. I think I used one on my prop bolts,
but it was hard to get something that stuck out far enough away
from the prop hub to allow the wrench to fit in good too.
Ideally, you'd use an extended crows foot type arrangement, which
is a tool Hartzell sells. But, what he did with the bolt
and open end wrench essentially duplicates the extended crows foot,
and from what I can tell, I think that's probably the simplest
way to get those prop bolts tightened.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rob Kermanj wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10@gmail.com>
>
> Great Idea! I used a expensive Crows Foot but had to go and shop for
> it. This would have done just fine.
>
> do not archive.
>
> On 4/29/06, JSMcGrew@aol.com <JSMcGrew@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group.
>> There
>> are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt (namely
>> engine mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the starter/alternator
>> wires on
>> the engine case). Instead of purchasing expensive extensions or welding
>> something up I found that if you take an ordinary combination wrench
>> and put
>> a bolt/nut with washers through the closed end you have a perfect
>> extension.
>> And you get to keep your wrench intact. See photo below.
>>
>> You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when
>> using
>> an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's a
>> website
>> that will do the math for you:
>>
>> http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php
>>
>> This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came
>> across
>> this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
>>
>> Jim McGrew
>> #40134 - Fire Wall Forward
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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--> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
It makes more sense to me to simply install a Garmin 396 in the panel
for $2500 and have the weather as the main display with NO extra items to
install. In addition you have a great back up GPS that can run on internal
batteries if you have a complete electrical failure. Take it on step further and
patch a serial cable from the Garmin Transponder and for very lttle cost (cable)
you can now display collision avoidance info on the 396. All these extras
(weather,traffic, backup GPS) are NOT required for IFR, so get it all done for
under $3000. When you get to where you are going, pull the 396 and use it for
driving directions.
Steve do no archive
Port St. Lucie, FL
772-475-5556
Sent from my Treo 600
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Auto engine conversion with good links for Lycoming operation |
Cc: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
---- Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> I agree - Cessna is the way to go. If it was good
> enough for grandpa it's good enough for me. Would you
> believe people are putting "experimental" airplanes
> together in their garage??? Some of these people
> started building before the supplier even finished the
> kit or quoted the final cost.
I have had two inflight major engine failures in 37 years of flying--the kind that
give you white knuckles, an inflight emergency declaration, an oil soaked
mess under the cowl when you land and the price of a new engine as a surprise).
Both were Lycomings --- one in a C172 and one in my RV-7A. Even with certified
aircraft engines you pay your money and take your chances.
-Dan Masys
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop |
--> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
We did not build the tailcone in the Synergy Air class. Vertical
stab, rudder, horizontal stab, trim tabs, and elevators.
David
Message 22
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|
In a message dated 4/29/06 1:01:14 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
LIKE2LOOP@aol.com writes:
It makes more sense to me to simply install a Garmin 396 in the panel
for $2500 and have the weather as the main display with NO extra items to
install.
And unless you have a cert. GPS you cannot legally do a WAAS or GPS
approach...even if you have dual ILS/VOR systems...the handheld can only be used
for
situation awareness and not IFR work...it seems that a certain race team used
a hand held GPS for their approach last year and they apparently all ended
up on a mountainside according to the NTSB prelim...so be careful what one
suggests.
Handheld's are for additional situational awareness only...not IFR
navigation/approaches...the 396 is cheaper than an IFR system and it offers a
lot of
information but it not a legal IFR instrument and having one on board does not
allow you to file "GPS"...
Patrick
do not archive
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Yeow! That is still a great amount accomplished. Sounds like a good
strategy to me.
John Jessen
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Maib
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop
--> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
We did not build the tailcone in the Synergy Air class. Vertical stab,
rudder, horizontal stab, trim tabs, and elevators.
David
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: cowling alignment |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Yes I did it on my 6 and it worked out fine. Took about 150hours for things
to move but it works. will be doing same on 10.
Chris
40388
x....VH-MUM RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 1:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: cowling alignment
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I can't remember if they specified it in the plans or not, but I think
> -7 builders tell me it's in their plans. At any rate, you just
> position the cowl so the prop spinner is not perfectly in line with
> the top of the cowl (which looks the smoothest), but make the spinner
> a little higher. The amount varies...some people say .125", and some
> say .250". I think getting it that precise will be a bit tricky,
> but if you shoot for something in that range you'll certainly end
> up happier in the end if/after it sags than you would if you
> aligned it smooth from day 1. Others want to comment on sag amount?
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Cal Hoffman wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Cal Hoffman" <cehoffman@bellsouth.net>
>>
>> Since my finishing kit is being delivered Monday, I have not reviewed the
>> instructions. Is there a write-up of the specific tasks to align the
>> cowl
>> as you have?
>> In other words, deviations from the Van's instructions.
>>
>> Cal Hoffman (canoe)
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 10:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: cowling alignment
>>
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>>>
>>> I did this. With just over 60 hours it hasn't had time to settle yet.
>>> I've pretty much consistently heard it will happen though.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>>> Richard Sipp wrote:
>>>> On the earlier RV models it was common to align the cowling so that the
>>>> top edge of the forward cowling was 1/8" or so lower than the prop
>>>> spinner. The theory was that the engine would settle about that amount
>>>> in operation and "sag" into good alignment.
>>>>
>>>> Of those flying, did any of you do this? If not have you noticed and
>>>> settling of the engine in the early operations?
>>>>
>>>> Like many subjects there was always a good bit of debate about whether
>>>> or not this settling happened and if the technique worked or was
>> necessary.
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Dick Sipp
>>>> 40065
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
A year ago this time I was at the Alexander Technical center completing
their RV-10 builder assistance program. In 14 days I came home will all
of the vertical stab, rudder, horizontal stab, trim tabs, elevators and
tailcone complete. The only thing left to complete on the emepennage
was to complete sections 11 and 12. Great program and a great kick
start to the building process.
Larry Rosen
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
Doors
David Maib wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
>
> We did not build the tailcone in the Synergy Air class. Vertical
> stab, rudder, horizontal stab, trim tabs, and elevators.
>
> David
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer@verizon.net>
At the risk of starting a frenzy, I'll post a few #'s I got on my trip from
SoCal to Sedona,AZ and back the last few days. For the most part it was very
consistent! I flew at 11000 IFR out, and 10500 VFR on the way back. At full
throttle (20" at those altitudes) and 2300 rpm, my TAS was always at 160kts
and fuel flow was 11 gph running a few degrees rich of peak. IO-540, MT 3
blade prop. DA on the way back was about 12K. Mark (N104ML)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Mark - Thank you for being the first candid and honest MT/RV-10 pilot.
Nothing wrong with knowing the facts. I wonder if you have ever
considered LOP as prescribed by GAMI for even better fuel burn rates
during cruise? Thanks again for using Knots and staying away from the
YUGO mph numbers which are only valid for EPA fuel economy ratings on
four wheeled motor vehicles traveling on MOGAS. Jim if you are still
out there, still no speed data.
Have you had any spring temperature swings on the CHT that you believe
are out of the norm for break-in? Would you consider putting on a new
Hartzell 2 blade for the RV-10 if one was made available?
John Cox - KUAO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Chamberlain
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain"
<10flyer@verizon.net>
At the risk of starting a frenzy, I'll post a few #'s I got on my trip
from
SoCal to Sedona,AZ and back the last few days. For the most part it was
very
consistent! I flew at 11000 IFR out, and 10500 VFR on the way back. At
full
throttle (20" at those altitudes) and 2300 rpm, my TAS was always at
160kts
and fuel flow was 11 gph running a few degrees rich of peak. IO-540, MT
3
blade prop. DA on the way back was about 12K. Mark (N104ML)
Message 28
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In a message dated 4/29/06 3:10:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
GRANSCOTT@aol.com writes:
It makes more sense to me to simply install a Garmin 396 in the panel
for $2500 and have the weather as the main display with NO extra items to
install. And unless you have a cert. GPS you cannot legally do a WAAS or GPS
approach...even if you have dual ILS/VOR systems
I never ment to use (or infer that anyone should use) the Garmin 396 for
IFR, only to augment an IFR system with inexpensive (relatively) single unit
that shows weather, traffic, terrain, all NON - IFR items. It is a great back
up with a completely isolated power supply (batteries) or a stand alone great
VFR panel. Though it is NOT certified, my Garmin 196 is WAAS enabled and the
G-430 is NOT . For you VFR drivers, Garmin has a FREE firmware update that
allows the addition of Obstacles to the 196 for a very small fee (under $40). You
have to update your 196 first to accept the new data, then buy the data. We
did this at Sun n Fun... easy. The 196 (or 296) is NOT capable of displaying
traffic, only the 396 is capable when coupled to the Garmin mode s transponder.
Not bad for a hand held, traffic and weather..
The 396 would augment a primary system with a Nav-Com-GPS like a Garmin 4
or 500 series unit with the Garmin Glide slope indicator that is legal for
both GPS and ILS approaches. Rob's Advanced Instruments Attitude/EFIS monitor
with AOA would fill in the panel nicely. The back up attitude indicator could
be
the Tru-Trak Auto-pilot.
Steve do not archive
Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder / Cessna 170B flyer
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
772-475-5556 cell
Message 29
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Byron Gillespie" <bgill1@charter.net>
Marcus:
I have a SATA that I bought sometime back. If you wanted to give one a
shot "pun intended" or use it in the meantime you are welcome to it. I
am just getting ready to install the gear then engine then... and don't
see needing it for some time. May give us a reason to get together and
compare work.
Byron
(up in Douglas)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:48 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint Guns
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
Thanks John, good info. It sounds like you have quite a bit of
experience,
do you also favor the SATA guns or do you prefer something else?
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 1:29 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Paint Guns
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
The biggest difference is in the precision of the air metering
circuitry, spring tensions and quality of adjustment in the spray
.......
Message 30
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
I agree wholeheartedly on all but one point. I want to have digital plates
as well. The 396 doesn't give me that. If I do go with the 396, then I
have to have some other source of plates, which just adds another piece to
the puzzle.
I agree that the 396 is not for IFR. We have the 430 for that. We just
want to have weather and plates. I would much sooner go with a 396 than
weather on the 430 also, but that is what brought up the MX20 in my mind. I
don't think the extra I/O features of the more expensive version would make
much difference for me, so the basic one with plates is what I would be
looking at.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: MX20
--> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
It makes more sense to me to simply install a Garmin 396 in the panel
for $2500 and have the weather as the main display with NO extra items to
install. In addition you have a great back up GPS that can run on internal
batteries if you have a complete electrical failure. Take it on step
further and
patch a serial cable from the Garmin Transponder and for very lttle cost
(cable)
you can now display collision avoidance info on the 396. All these extras
(weather,traffic, backup GPS) are NOT required for IFR, so get it all done
for
under $3000. When you get to where you are going, pull the 396 and use it
for
driving directions.
Steve do no archive
Port St. Lucie, FL
772-475-5556
Sent from my Treo 600
--
--
Message 31
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| Subject: | Torque Wrench Extension |
Not to argue with you (do not archive =96 ok, that=92s out of the way),
but
isn=92t the thing that matters how much torque there is at the head to
make it
click, not how much force you are putting on it. If it is the same
torque
wrench set at the same setting with the same extension, shouldn=92t it
give
the exact same amount of torque no matter where on the wrench you grab
it?
It will require more force from the person, but the leverage from the
hand
to the click should be isolated form the amount of torque from the click
to
the nut, right? Well, maybe that=92s why I am an accountant and not an
engineer.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Torque Wrench Extension
Jesse,
This falls in the category of waxing philosophical on a subject and that
doesn't help get my plane in the air any faster BUT I'm totally with
you. I
struggled with that as well so here goes.
If you are working with a beam type torque wrench you must hold it on
the
handle and center the handle on its pivot in order to get an accurate
reading, in this case it is easy to understand why the calculation needs
the
torque wrench length. With the micrometer or "click" type torque
wrenches
you don't necessarily have to hold it by the handle to get an accurate
torque because the spring is set to the value you want - that is, unless
you
are using an extension.
Hang with me and please excuse the math, this is how I understand it.
Consider the following 2 cases:
You are using a 20 inch long micrometer type torque wrench set at 100
in-lbs
attached to a 10 inch extension.
1) If you hold the torque wrench by the handle you must apply 5 lbs of
force
to create 100 in-lbs of moment (torque) at the head and cause it to
click (5
lbs x 20"). At the end of your 10" extension you are creating 150 in-lbs
of
torque (5 lbs x 30 inches).
2) If you "choke" up on the torque wrench and hold it, say, 10" from the
head you must apply 10 lbs of force in order to get it to click at 100
in-lbs. Now at the end of your 10" extension you are applying 200 in-lbs
of
torque (10 lbs x 20 inches)
As far as using the extension other than straight - I'm not an A&P, but
I am
an engineer and the math tells me that bending the torque wrench does
make a
difference. Your moment arm now becomes the hypotenuse of the triangle
created by the torque wrench and extension. The further you bend the
extension the shorter your moment arm becomes and, thus, the less torque
you
have at the end of your extension. This is a minor correction until the
angle starts getting beyond about 45 degrees. I will skip the geometry
involved. Consider the case if you bent the extension all the way back
toward you, aligned with the torque wrench... now the moment arm is
equal to
the length of the torque wrench MINUS the length of the extension.
Sorry for the dissertation. I had to prove this to myself before I
torqued
my prop bolts.
The bottom line: The website calculation works for a straight extension.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 4/29/2006 7:43:37 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
jesse@itecusa.org writes:
That=92s a great idea.
I have one issue with this website. It has you input the length of your
existing torque wrench, then the length with the extension. I
understand
wanting to know the length from the center of the drive to the
break-away
point, but what in the world difference can the length of the handle
mean?
Does it really make a different torque value if you grab the handle at
the
end or =93choke up=94 to the head? Am I really missing something huge
here?
Also, I heard from an A&P school that if you put the extension at 90
degrees, then the torque value on the wrench is accurate, but then, of
course, you can=92t use the racheting feature of the torque wrench, or
you
will lose your 90 degrees.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org/"www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:27 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Torque Wrench Extension
I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group.
There
are a few times that a torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt (namely
engine mounting bolts, prop nuts, supporting the starter/alternator
wires on
the engine case). Instead of purchasing expensive extensions or welding
something up I found that if you take an ordinary combination wrench and
put
a bolt/nut with washers through the closed end you have a perfect
extension.
And you get to keep your wrench intact. See photo below.
You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when
using
an extension. If you don't trust yourself with a calculator here's a
website
that will do the math for you:
HYPERLINK
"http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php"http://www.nor=
bar
.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php
This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came
across
this idea, so I figure it's worth sharing.
Jim McGrew
#40134 - Fire Wall Forward
--
--
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
jsmcgrew@aol.com
--
--
Message 32
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| Subject: | Riviting the tailcone |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019@msn.com>
I have an upcoming job related work stoppage for a few weeks. After that I will
be riviting the tailcone together. I have searched the archives and unless I
missed something no one has posted a method for back riviting the majority of
the pieces. I would like to back rivit as many of the stiffners as possible, but
before I go and reinvent the wheel, has anyone tried this and come up with
anything that did or did not work?
Eric Kallio
40518 waiting to rivit the tailcone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31719#31719
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <gorejr@bellsouth.net>
Mark,
When you were a few degrees rich of peak what was your CHT and EGT? Thanks Jim
Gore
>
> From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> Date: 2006/04/29 Sat PM 07:22:08 EDT
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Mark - Thank you for being the first candid and honest MT/RV-10 pilot.
> Nothing wrong with knowing the facts. I wonder if you have ever
> considered LOP as prescribed by GAMI for even better fuel burn rates
> during cruise? Thanks again for using Knots and staying away from the
> YUGO mph numbers which are only valid for EPA fuel economy ratings on
> four wheeled motor vehicles traveling on MOGAS. Jim if you are still
> out there, still no speed data.
>
> Have you had any spring temperature swings on the CHT that you believe
> are out of the norm for break-in? Would you consider putting on a new
> Hartzell 2 blade for the RV-10 if one was made available?
>
> John Cox - KUAO
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Chamberlain
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 3:55 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain"
> <10flyer@verizon.net>
>
> At the risk of starting a frenzy, I'll post a few #'s I got on my trip
> from
> SoCal to Sedona,AZ and back the last few days. For the most part it was
> very
> consistent! I flew at 11000 IFR out, and 10500 VFR on the way back. At
> full
> throttle (20" at those altitudes) and 2300 rpm, my TAS was always at
> 160kts
> and fuel flow was 11 gph running a few degrees rich of peak. IO-540, MT
> 3
> blade prop. DA on the way back was about 12K. Mark (N104ML)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Torque Wrench Extension |
Jesse Saint wrote:
> Not to argue with you (do not archive ok, thats out of the way),
> but isnt the thing that matters how much torque there is at the head
> to make it click, not how much force you are putting on it. If it is
> the same torque wrench set at the same setting with the same
> extension, shouldnt it give the exact same amount of torque no matter
> where on the wrench you grab it? It will require more force from the
> person, but the leverage from the hand to the click should be isolated
> form the amount of torque from the click to the nut, right? Well,
> maybe thats why I am an accountant and not an engineer.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> 352-465-4545
>
Jesse, nobody argues on this list :-P .... they just discusses things
to death! :-) You're 1/2 right in your statement.
Torque is measured in foot-pounds. Foot being the distance from the
'head' to where the force is applied, which is in pounds. If the torque
wrench is 2 feet long, and you press with 2 pounds at the end of the
torque wrench, you have 4 foot-pounds of torque. Now, if you grasp the
torque wrench in the middle and apply the same pressure, that's only 2
foot-pounds. It's a leverage thingy. You hit it right when you said
"It will require more force from the person" ..... and to give the bolt
(or nut) the same torque you'd have to push 4 pounds.
Some folks get downright anal about it when you put a crows-foot on the
end of the torque wrench, which adds (maybe) 1/2" to the length and HAVE
to calculate the new foot-pounds!!! Sheesh. Well, grab your geometry
book off the shelf if you put the crows foot 90 degrees from the side!!!
Well, as you can probably tell, I don't figure ..... I just do it. And
I haven't had any failures (yet) from winging (highly technical term) it.
Linn
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Riviting the tailcone |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Much of the tail cone can be back riveted. You can do just about all
the bottom and side skins to the stiffeners, frames and bulk heads. I
do recommend a large back. When I did mine we used a 2'x2'x1/4" steel
plate. If you do use one of the smaller plates like Avery or Cleveland
sells be careful to make sure it is in place when you rivet. (I know I
am stating the obvious, but just don't want you to have a bad day.)
Mike Howe has a very detailed description on how he back riveted the
tail cone together here <http://www.etigerrr.com/TailCone/june_25_2004.htm>.
Two people will help (but not necessary), since the tail cone starts to
get big and heavy.
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
Message 36
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|
I don't get too much into the Sales nitty-gritty, but the XM feature
function is included free in the EX500, you just need a XM receiver. I
don't know the price of those right off, but they aren't cheap - about
$3700 I think for a "HeadsUp" brand XM box.
I've heard rumors that there's a way to get an XM receiver (uncertified,
portable model) from WxWorx (the data provider) for about $400, and then
hack it to get the necessary serial output - but that was a rumor . . .
TDT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jesse Saint
Sent: Sat 4/29/2006 9:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: MX20
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Do you know how much it is to add plates to the MX20? From my reading
it
seemed like it was included in the normal unit, which certainly could be
wrong. From my research, it does work with WSI weather. At least that
is
advertised in a lot of places. Has that option been removed or is it
new?
Also, even with the Garmin weather, the unit is $5,900, the weather
option
another $3,700 or so, then whatever the plates cost. The Avidyne
(retail)
runs $7,200, another $2,500 for the plates, and then the cost of the WX
weather add-on, which is about $1,000, right (if this is available yet)?
Plus the Avidyne is a smaller screen (granted, only 1/2 inch smaller).
Am I
missing something, TDT? I like the looks of the EX-500, but what really
makes it better or cheaper?
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
352-465-4545
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: MX20
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
It's been a while since I looked at them, so this is dated and faded,
but...
The MX-20 runs with only one weather module, and that's the GDL-69,
and it can only support XM weather, not WSI. In order to interface
with traffic, you also can't just buy the MX-20, but need the
Expanded I/O version, which costs more money. They also have the
Chart View option, which allows you to put approach charts and
airport diagrams on screen, but this is not at all a cheap option
either, to either add or maintain the subscription. When you put
together an MX-20 system with all those options, you'll have a
lot of cash tied up in the MX-20. Leave off the Chart View and
it still costs a ton, but it's at least less painful. It is
a fantastically beautiful box though, with great graphics, and
is a system that anyone who buys will fall in love with. The
same can be said for the Avidyne EX-500, which I personally like
the looks of better than the MX-20. There are a few things that
seemingly make an MX-20 + GNS-480 a good combo, and an Avidyne
EX-500 + GNS-4/530 a good combo. But it seems that you may lose
a couple minor things by trying to match them up differently,
so IMHO if you like the MX-20, you should look at the GNS-480
as the mating radio. To do traffic you still need the GTX-330.
http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/
Interestingly, it was the cost of the MX-20 and the options
required that caused me to switch to the Chelton system in my
plan. With that system, most things can be added a little
less painfully. In addition, they interface with WSI, and later
this year they will be working with XM weather. They interface
with various traffic systems, and strikefinder, and will probably
be more upgradeable as systems change down the road, being an
experimental system. I do know of one person who has electronic
charts on theirs, but it's a custom hack that is probably
not something that most or any other builders would attempt,
but it is cool that there's someone who knows the guts of them
well enough to do that.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> I know this is probably not the best list for this, but can anybody
give
> me a quick rundown on the MX20, its options, the different weather
> systems that it will run with and a few pros/cons of it and them? If
> anybody has a good link that would work too. I can't find any good
info
> on the web and the Garmin website is practically useless as far as
that
> goes.
>
>
--
--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 37
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|
FYI, do some research on WSI and Garmin before committing anything in
that department. That has been or is a somewhat rocky relationship
between the two, so make sure you are buying something that will be
supported into the future . . .
TDT
400025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson
Sent: Sat 4/29/2006 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: MX20
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Chart View is about $1900 at actual street prices. I think
you're right. You can buy WSI for the MX-20 using the
AV100TS receiver. What's not clear is if you need any other
hardware then from Garmin: "The launch Multi-functional display for WSI
InFlight, the Garmin MX20 features display code written specifically for
the WSI service."
Also, the MX-20 price you listed is not the one with the expanded
I/O. That costs more.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> Do you know how much it is to add plates to the MX20? From my reading
it
> seemed like it was included in the normal unit, which certainly could
be
> wrong. From my research, it does work with WSI weather. At least
that is
> advertised in a lot of places. Has that option been removed or is it
new?
> Also, even with the Garmin weather, the unit is $5,900, the weather
option
> another $3,700 or so, then whatever the plates cost. The Avidyne
(retail)
> runs $7,200, another $2,500 for the plates, and then the cost of the
WX
> weather add-on, which is about $1,000, right (if this is available
yet)?
> Plus the Avidyne is a smaller screen (granted, only 1/2 inch smaller).
Am I
> missing something, TDT? I like the looks of the EX-500, but what
really
> makes it better or cheaper?
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> 352-465-4545
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:32 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: MX20
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> It's been a while since I looked at them, so this is dated and faded,
> but...
>
> The MX-20 runs with only one weather module, and that's the GDL-69,
> and it can only support XM weather, not WSI. In order to interface
> with traffic, you also can't just buy the MX-20, but need the
> Expanded I/O version, which costs more money. They also have the
> Chart View option, which allows you to put approach charts and
> airport diagrams on screen, but this is not at all a cheap option
> either, to either add or maintain the subscription. When you put
> together an MX-20 system with all those options, you'll have a
> lot of cash tied up in the MX-20. Leave off the Chart View and
> it still costs a ton, but it's at least less painful. It is
> a fantastically beautiful box though, with great graphics, and
> is a system that anyone who buys will fall in love with. The
> same can be said for the Avidyne EX-500, which I personally like
> the looks of better than the MX-20. There are a few things that
> seemingly make an MX-20 + GNS-480 a good combo, and an Avidyne
> EX-500 + GNS-4/530 a good combo. But it seems that you may lose
> a couple minor things by trying to match them up differently,
> so IMHO if you like the MX-20, you should look at the GNS-480
> as the mating radio. To do traffic you still need the GTX-330.
>
> http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/
>
> Interestingly, it was the cost of the MX-20 and the options
> required that caused me to switch to the Chelton system in my
> plan. With that system, most things can be added a little
> less painfully. In addition, they interface with WSI, and later
> this year they will be working with XM weather. They interface
> with various traffic systems, and strikefinder, and will probably
> be more upgradeable as systems change down the road, being an
> experimental system. I do know of one person who has electronic
> charts on theirs, but it's a custom hack that is probably
> not something that most or any other builders would attempt,
> but it is cool that there's someone who knows the guts of them
> well enough to do that.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Jesse Saint wrote:
>> I know this is probably not the best list for this, but can anybody
give
>> me a quick rundown on the MX20, its options, the different weather
>> systems that it will run with and a few pros/cons of it and them? If
>> anybody has a good link that would work too. I can't find any good
info
>> on the web and the Garmin website is practically useless as far as
that
>> goes.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Torque Wrench Extension |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Coloccia" <john@BallOfShame.com>
You almost have to think about it as a bending moment thing. Here's
an argument that should convince you, though:
If it's true that it doesn't matter where on the handle you're pushing,
then as I reduce the length of the handle on the torque wrench it will
always break at the same point given X torque on the screw, right?
Now imagine that the handle gets shorter and shorter and shorter. You
can imagine that at some point the handle gets so short (say .01" long)
that it would require an ENOURMOUS torque to get that torque wrench
to break (given that you left the torque setting constant). At the limiting
case, the length of the handle is 0 and it will require infinite torque to
get the wrench to break.
In the case of no extension, it doesn't matter where you hold the
handle because the ratio of handle to extension is always the same ( =
0 ) and that's really what determines what your torque setting must be.
This isn't true for a beam style wrench. Once again, a beam style is a
bending moment thingy and you have to hold it in the right place.
Think of the beam style as zillions of little torque wrenches all hooked
up head to tail :)
I hope this helps and doesn't just confuse the issue more. Also, I've
been deburring ribs all day so take it with a grain of salt...it looks right
from here, though...
-John Coloccia
On 29 Apr 2006 at 19:30, Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> Not to argue with you (do not archive ok, thats out of the way), but isnt the
thing that matters
> how much torque there is at the head to make it click, not how much force you
are putting on it. If
> it is the same torque wrench set at the same setting with the same extension,
shouldnt it give the
> exact same amount of torque no matter where on the wrench you grab it? It will
require more
> force from the person, but the leverage from the hand to the click should be
isolated form the
> amount of torque from the click to the nut, right? Well, maybe thats why I am
an accountant and
> not an engineer.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> 352-465-4545
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:38 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Torque Wrench Extension
>
>
> Jesse,
>
>
>
> This falls in the category of waxing philosophical on a subject and that doesn't
help get my plane
> in the air any faster BUT I'm totally with you. I struggled with that as well
so here goes.
>
>
>
> If you are working with a beam type torque wrench you must hold it on the handle
and center the
> handle on its pivotin order to get an accurate reading, in this case it is easy
to understand whythe
> calculation needs thetorque wrench length.With the micrometer or "click" type
torque wrenches
> you don't necessarily have to hold it by the handle to get an accuratetorque
because the spring is
> set to the value you want- that is, unless you are using an extension.
>
>
>
> Hang with me and please excuse the math, this is how I understand it. Consider
the following 2
> cases:
>
>
>
> You are using a 20 inch long micrometer type torque wrench set at 100 in-lbs
attached to a 10
> inch extension.
>
>
>
> 1) If you hold the torque wrench by the handle you must apply 5 lbs of force
to create 100 in-lbs of
> moment (torque) at the head and cause it to click (5 lbs x 20"). At the end of
your10"extension
> you are creating 150 in-lbs of torque (5 lbs x 30 inches).
>
>
>
> 2) If you "choke" up on the torque wrench and hold it, say, 10" from the head
you must apply 10
> lbs of force in order to get it to click at 100 in-lbs. Now at the end of your
10" extension you are
> applying 200 in-lbs of torque (10 lbs x 20 inches)
>
>
>
> As far as using the extension other than straight - I'm not an A&P, but I am
an engineer and the
> math tells me that bending the torque wrench does make a difference. Your moment
arm now
> becomes the hypotenuse of the triangle created by the torque wrench and extension.
The further
> you bend the extension the shorter your moment arm becomes and, thus, the less
torque you
> have at the end of your extension. This is a minor correction until the angle
starts getting beyond
> about 45 degrees. I will skip the geometry involved. Consider the case if you
bent the extension all
> the way back toward you, aligned with the torque wrench... now the moment arm
is equal to the
> length of the torque wrench MINUS the length of the extension.
>
>
>
> Sorry for the dissertation. I had to prove this to myself before I torqued my
prop bolts.
>
>
>
> The bottom line: The website calculation works for a straight extension.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
> 40134
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/29/2006 7:43:37 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jesse@itecusa.org
writes:
>
> Thats a great idea.
>
> I have one issue with this website. It has you input the length of your existing
torque wrench, then
> the length with the extension. I understand wanting to know the length from the
center of the drive
> to the break-away point, but what in the world difference can the length of the
handle mean?
> Does it really make a different torque value if you grab the handle at the end
or choke up to the
> head? Am I really missing something huge here?
>
> Also, I heard from an A&P school that if you put the extension at 90 degrees,
then the torque
> value on the wrench is accurate, but then, of course, you cant use the racheting
feature of the
> torque wrench, or you will lose your 90 degrees.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> 352-465-4545
>
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:27 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Torque Wrench Extension
>
>
> I just came across a great idea that I want to share with the group. There are
a few times that a
> torque wrench won't fit on the nut/bolt (namely engine mounting bolts, prop nuts,
supporting the
> starter/alternator wires on the engine case). Instead of purchasing expensive
extensions or
> welding something upI found that if you take an ordinary combination wrench and
put a bolt/nut
> with washersthrough the closed end you have a perfect extension. And you get
to keep your
> wrench intact. See photo below.
>
>
>
> You'll need to set your torque wrench to the appropriate setting when using an
extension. If you
> don't trust yourself with a calculator here's a website that will do the math
for you:
>
>
>
> http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php
>
>
>
> This is too easy, but I struggled with a few of these before I came across this
idea, so I figure it's
> worth sharing.
>
>
>
> Jim McGrew
>
> #40134 - Fire Wall Forward
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> Jim "Scooter" McGrew
> jsmcgrew@aol.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Riviting the tailcone |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Yes, it is very doable. I did it on mine. Just take your time and move your back
riveting plate down each row of rivets taking care to make sure the plate is
on the rivet and the skin is resting flush on the plate. If I recall there is
a few you can't/might not be able to do alone. It can get awkward moving around
that big ole tub on your bench. I could figure out how to do it in my sleep
now after plugging away on this project for two+ years. Step back, look at what
you want to do, it is pretty easy to develop a back rivet plant...mine came
out real nice. Gt ready to become a building wizard as time go on.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/finish
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Riviting the tailcone |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bruce snyder" <SNYDER888@peoplepc.com>
Eric,
I back riveted almost the entire tailcone (except the round corners and the
top skin). I used 2 tables, one about an installed cleco height shorter
than the other. With the back rivet plate on the taller table, I worked
from the most forward part of the tailcone back, rolling the tailcone to get
both sides. I just pulled the clecoes, taped the rivets in, slid that part
of the tailcone onto the taller table and backriveted away until the rivet
gun wouldn't fit in the tailcone.
Bruce Snyder
40353 Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric_Kallio
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:00 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric_Kallio" <scout019@msn.com>
I have an upcoming job related work stoppage for a few weeks. After that I
will be riviting the tailcone together. I have searched the archives and
unless I missed something no one has posted a method for back riviting the
majority of the pieces. I would like to back rivit as many of the stiffners
as possible, but before I go and reinvent the wheel, has anyone tried this
and come up with anything that did or did not work?
Eric Kallio
40518 waiting to rivit the tailcone
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31719#31719
Message 41
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|
I know this may come through as a big file, but just making sure that Jesse
was able to use the Product Comparison page at Garmin.com. I keep waiting
to see what Garmin is going to publish for capabilities on the GMX-200.
Rob #392
MX 20 Standard <http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/>
MX20 I/O Traffic <http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/>
MX20 I/O Traffic <http://www.garmin.com/products/mx20/> & Radar
Moving Map
Yes
Yes
Yes
Display Size
6"
6"
6"
Display Type
65,535 Color AMLCD
65,535 Color AMLCD
65,535 Color AMLCD
Display Resolution
480 x 640
480 x 640
480 x 640
Unit Weight
3.1 lbs.
3.1 lbs.
3.1 lbs.
Unit Dimensions
5" x 6.25" x 8"
5" x 6.25" x 8"
5" x 6.25" x 8"
XM WX Satellite Weather <http://www.xmradio.com/weather/> Compatibility
Yes, using the GDL 69/69A
Yes, using the GDL 69/69A
Yes, using the GDL 69/69A
XM Satellite Radio Capability <http://www.xmradio.com>
Yes, using the GDL 69A
Yes, using the GDL 69A
Yes, using the GDL 69A
VFR Charts
Yes
Yes
Yes
IFR Enroute Charts
Yes
Yes
Yes
Terrain Awareness
Yes
Yes
Yes
Lightning Strike Display
with WX500
with WX500
with WX500
Weather Information (Using WSI AV-200)
Optional. Graphical METARs, SIGMETs, AIRMETs, echo tops.
Optional. Graphical METARs, SIGMETs, AIRMETs, echo tops.
Optional. Graphical METARs, SIGMETs, AIRMETs, echo tops.
Fully Customizable Charting
Yes
Yes
Yes
Jeppesen Database
Yes
Yes
Yes
Chartview Database
Optional. Requires JeppView Subscription. Provides Jeppesen Approach Charts
and Airport Diagrams
Optional. Requires JeppView Subscription. Provides Jeppesen Approach Charts
and Airport Diagrams
Optional. Requires JeppView Subscription. Provides Jeppesen Approach Charts
and Airport Diagrams
Obstructions Database
Yes
Yes
Yes
Direct Sunlight Readable
Yes
Yes
Yes
Automatic Dimming
Yes
Yes
Yes
Position Source
External GPS via RS-232 serial input.
External GPS via RS-232 serial input.
External GPS via RS-232 serial input.
Traffic Display
GDL 90
GTX 330, L-3 Com Skywatch, Ryan TCAD, and GDL90
GTX 330, L-3 Com Skywatch, Ryan TCAD, and GDL90
Radar Display
No
No
Bendix King RDR2000, RDR2100; Allied Signal RS 181-A (does not support
vertical profile with RS-181A).
Weather Information (Using GDL 69/69A)
Optional. NEXRAD radar images, Graphical METARs, Lightning, TFRs, Cell
Movement, METARs, AIRMETs, SIGMETs, echo tops, winds aloft, county warnings,
city forecasts, TAFs, cloud tops. (Requires XM WX Weather Subscription)
Optional. NEXRAD radar images, Graphical METARs, Lightning, TFRs, Cell
Movement, METARs, AIRMETs, SIGMETs, echo tops, winds aloft, county warnings,
city forecasts, TAFs, cloud tops. (Requires XM WX Weather Subscription)
Optional. NEXRAD radar images, Graphical METARs, Lightning, TFRs, Cell
Movement, METARs, AIRMETs, SIGMETs, echo tops, winds aloft, county warnings,
city forecasts, TAFs, cloud tops. (Requires XM WX Weather Subscription)
Voltage Range
10Vdc to 40Vdc, reverse polarity protected
10Vdc to 40Vdc, reverse polarity protected
10Vdc to 40Vdc, reverse polarity protected
MSRP <javascript:popup('/footnotes/msrp.html')>
Contact your Garmin distributor
$8495.00
$14495.00
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: MX20
FYI, do some research on WSI and Garmin before committing anything in that
department. That has been or is a somewhat rocky relationship between the
two, so make sure you are buying something that will be supported into the
future . . .
TDT
400025
Message 42
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| Subject: | Riviting the tailcone |
My small Cleavend back rivet plate is routered flush into the work bench. I
attached a Black & Decker Laser Level to the floor joist above that shines a
visible red beam onto the steel plate. The laser beam happens to spread the
length of the plate. When back riveting, as long as the beam is hitting the rivet,
I know the rivet is on the back plate.
Mike -SB Wings
Message 43
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| Subject: | Riviting the tailcone |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
My back rivet set hasn't held up well, and it didn't have enough clearance
beside some of the J-channel, so I just used my flush set and was careful to
keep it level and not allow it to slide off, which happened anyway a few
times. Just hit the rivet one more time in a level attitude and it looks
great!
Rob
#392
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Yes, it is very doable. I did it on mine. Just take your time and move your
back riveting plate down each row of rivets taking care to make sure the
plate is on the rivet and the skin is resting flush on the plate. If I
recall there is a few you can't/might not be able to do alone. It can get
awkward moving around that big ole tub on your bench. I could figure out how
to do it in my sleep now after plugging away on this project for two+ years.
Step back, look at what you want to do, it is pretty easy to develop a back
rivet plant...mine came out real nice. Gt ready to become a building wizard
as time go on.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/finish
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer@verizon.net>
I have all those numbers written down on a piece of paper, but left it in my
airplane. I will get back to it Mon, or Tues and be happy to post them. I'm
pretty sure the EGT's were around 1370 or so and the CHT's at 390 roughly. I
was fairly happy to see all at a consistent temp 1-6 cyl's.
Message 45
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer@verizon.net>
I have the MX-20 combined with a 430 and SL30 and have been very pleased
with the integration. The MX-20 has so many features, I'm just scratching
the surface. Departing IFR the other day I was given an unexpected heading
to join an airway not programed into the 430 or part of my clearance. I
quickly selected IFR map (not chart view, but a standard data base of
airways) and was able to turn onto the airway manually until I caught back
up with the GPS. The traffic/Terrain/and other functions such as the track
arc across the top have made this my main avionic component. I never look at
the 430 map. When coupled with the SL30 you can dial in radials with the OBS
and they will project as a megenta line on the map of the MX-20 out of the
corresponding VOR. Maybe overkill for everyday VFR, but lifesavers for guys
who like max situational awareness while in the clouds. Just some thoughts!
Mark.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Performance Spec - Was: Extra fuel tanks |
Hi John,
Since Mark has shared his speed data, you have all of the information I had
available.
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 04/29/2006 4:24:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Mark - Thank you for being the first candid and honest MT/RV-10 pilot.
Nothing wrong with knowing the facts.
(Stuff Cut)
Jim if you are still out there, still no speed data.
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: RV Assembly WorkshopRe: RV Assembly Workshop |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib@mac.com" <dmaib@mac.com>
I considered Alexander Technical Center as well. Coming home with the tailcone
completed was very tempting. In the end, we went with Synergy because they drive
up to Van's and pick up the tail kit and take it to their shop before you arrive.
They inventory the parts, order any missing pieces from Van, and have you
set up and ready to go on arrival. Then, when you are finished, they transport
the completed pieces back to Van's and Tony Partain will load them up and
deliver them to me when the rest of the QB is delivered. Since we live in MN,
I did not relish the thought of renting a trailer or truck to get the completed
tail feathers and tailcone home from GA on top of paying to get the kit delivered
to GA to begin with.
David Maib
--------
David Maib
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=31755#31755
Message 48
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
What's the driving need to have the digital plates on the box itself?
Just tonight I bought a Motion Computing LE1600 as an upgrade to
my current Tablet PC. I can use Golden Eagle Chart Case or other
software if I wish to have charting. Right now I have the Sportys
DVD with approach charts for the whole US. $10. I have a script that
I can run every couple weeks that will update the files that make
up the DVD charts from the FAA, so for free I can continue to be
current on charts (except I won't have any newly added procedures
unless I get a new DVD each year). One plus is that it will give
me a separate tablet PC that I can take with me and use as my
flight planning PC at the hotel or wherever I stay when on the
ground, as well as provide a game PC for the kids. (I'll probably
flip for a small keyboard)
I'm just a bit skeptical on the digital plates on a box, because
once you buy the option (which costs more than the tablet I bought),
you then have to have a fairly expensive subscription. The JeppView
for the Apollow MX20/i-linc charts cost $965.00/yr just to
have the approach plates. I don't think that includes updating
the database itself, but just the plates and charts.
And if you're going to fly IFR with it, you'd need it to be current
unless you're carrying current paper charts. Imagine having
a current 430 but a non-current MX-20 and having something not
agree on screen. That's why they give a discount price for
a subscription on the database when you pair the radio and the
MX-20 and update them both, but the database subscription is still
>$500/yr for both.
Steve's point about the 396 was a good one in that it's probably
the cheapest and easiest way to add weather and traffic display.
For many people, this will be a great option.
There are a few downsides: It's not an IFR unit which everyone
already knows. It is a smaller screen, and just one more system
you have to punch buttons on. The advantage to doing it all on
an MX-20/Avidyne/Chelton system is that your entire flightplan
can be displayed and loaded on one system, and then you can
overlay the weather and traffic on top of that same system. It keeps
your head free to look out of the cockpit more because you're
not spending time loading your flight plan into multiple units
and moving around from system to system to find the various data.
(which is a plus of having those digital charts on the Avidyne/MX-20
too).
Also, I know that some of those features that require the expanded
I/O seem pretty un-needed (like Radar), but if you haven't flown
with traffic, you'll be surprised at how nice it is to have.
Adding the small extra cost of a GTX330 should give you
10 years of traffic at low cost....and if ADS-B does take over
the world, you'll want to have that expanded I/O system to take
advantage of it......imagine, free traffic, free weather...
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> I agree wholeheartedly on all but one point. I want to have digital plates
> as well. The 396 doesn't give me that. If I do go with the 396, then I
> have to have some other source of plates, which just adds another piece to
> the puzzle.
>
> I agree that the 396 is not for IFR. We have the 430 for that. We just
> want to have weather and plates. I would much sooner go with a 396 than
> weather on the 430 also, but that is what brought up the MX20 in my mind. I
> don't think the extra I/O features of the more expensive version would make
> much difference for me, so the basic one with plates is what I would be
> looking at.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> 352-465-4545
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:57 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: MX20
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
>
> It makes more sense to me to simply install a Garmin 396 in the panel
>
> for $2500 and have the weather as the main display with NO extra items to
> install. In addition you have a great back up GPS that can run on internal
> batteries if you have a complete electrical failure. Take it on step
> further and
> patch a serial cable from the Garmin Transponder and for very lttle cost
> (cable)
> you can now display collision avoidance info on the 396. All these extras
> (weather,traffic, backup GPS) are NOT required for IFR, so get it all done
> for
> under $3000. When you get to where you are going, pull the 396 and use it
> for
> driving directions.
>
> Steve do no archive
>
> Port St. Lucie, FL
> 772-475-5556
>
> Sent from my Treo 600
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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