---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/01/06: 40 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:15 AM - Re: Oil canning on forward fuse (Rob Kermanj) 2. 04:08 AM - Re: 728DD (Wayne Edgerton) 3. 06:57 AM - Re: Pitch trim servo (Richard Sipp) 4. 11:28 AM - X/C into a convection oven (Tim Olson) 5. 11:40 AM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 6. 12:26 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Rene Felker) 7. 12:26 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (GRANSCOTT@aol.com) 8. 12:34 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Conti, Rick) 9. 12:53 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Tim Olson) 10. 01:02 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Larry Rosen) 11. 01:03 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Deems Davis) 12. 01:19 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Gary Specketer) 13. 01:20 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 14. 01:22 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 15. 01:27 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Dj Merrill) 16. 01:52 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 17. 01:54 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Bruce Patton) 18. 01:56 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Shawn Moon) 19. 01:58 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 20. 02:14 PM - Re: Cabin Door Fit (Jesse Saint) 21. 02:18 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Jesse Saint) 22. 02:28 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Bruce Patton) 23. 02:46 PM - Re: Model (greerdans@AOL.COM) 24. 02:54 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Tim Olson) 25. 03:17 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Jesse Saint) 26. 03:30 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Mark Chamberlain) 27. 03:44 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Tim Olson) 28. 05:34 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (bob.kaufmann) 29. 05:34 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (bob.kaufmann) 30. 05:37 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (bob.kaufmann) 31. 05:50 PM - Re: Riviting the tailcone (Cal Hoffman) 32. 07:20 PM - Re: Riviting the tailcone (McGANN, Ron) 33. 07:20 PM - True Flight software (David McNeill) 34. 07:20 PM - Re: Riviting the tailcone (Jesse Saint) 35. 07:45 PM - Re: True Flight software (Jesse Saint) 36. 08:17 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Kelly McMullen) 37. 11:21 PM - QB (Robert G. Wright) 38. 11:21 PM - Re: X/C into a convection oven (Robert G. Wright) 39. 11:31 PM - Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle) 40. 11:33 PM - Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:34 AM PST US From: "Rob Kermanj" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Oil canning on forward fuse --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" I had them on both sides of the fuselage too. They now hide behind the wing root strips. Do not archive On 4/30/06, McGANN, Ron wrote: > > > G'day all > > Just had an awesome weekend and made some significant progress. Finished > tailcone attachment and got those mongrel rear floor pans installed. > Decided to do some clean up and admire the work to date. > > On inspecting the forward fuse skins, below the F1088 rib and just forward > of the wing leading edge, I noticed a bit of a 'bulge' in the skins. > Applying some pressure to the skin reveals a bit of oil canning. This is > present on both sides. Don't know what happened here, followed the plans to > the letter. Is this typical? Is there a fix? > > cheers, > Ron > 187 fuse > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:43 AM PST US From: "Wayne Edgerton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: 728DD Congratulations on being in the air. You have an interesting setup. You will have to let us all know your flying results. Wayne Edgerton # 40336 do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:10 AM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Pitch trim servo John, I just installed mine the other night. The TruTrak web site has the dimensions to locate the bellcrank arm attach hole. They said to look at the 7 or 9 installation document as they are the same on all the airplanes. Oh and when replacing the servo arm with the torque enhancer don't remove the little screw on the servo that is off set from the center one that is a shear screw and will break if removed. I have already tested this feature. Dick Sipp 40065 ----- Original Message ----- From: John Testement To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 10:48 PM Subject: RV10-List: Pitch trim servo Anyone have instructions or photos of the new TruTrak pitch trim servo installation (with the roller arm thingy)? I only got a couple of photos and no info on where to drill the bellcrank arm, etc. Take care, John _________________________________ John Testement Human Potential Project Phone: 804-303-1927 Email: john.testement@humanpotentialproject.com 3204 Long Meadow Cir. Glen Allen, VA 23059 -- 4/28/2006 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:28:30 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:40:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Tim: We were flying around NM last summer with the AF Reserve and encountered afternoon puffy buildups many afternoons. We were up at FL300, so it didn't bother us too much. We had some other fellas at low level and they were getting bumped around a lot. My advice: Get the kiddies up early, t/o NLT 0600 and get your longer legs in before 1300 . . . (you're taking 2 days each way, I presume?) Or extend your trip a bit, make it a circle, and come home via up the CA coast, then back across, for a change of scenery . . . TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:44 PM PST US From: "Rene Felker" Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" I live in Ogden Utah and normally fly down there once or twice a summer. Get your flying in early and be concerned whenever the winds aloft are greater than 25 knots, it can get pretty bumpy on the leeward side of the big mountains. I agree with TDT make it a round trip and catch the Ca coast and the intermountain west. Jackson Hole Wy is a beautiful destination. Or maybe you can swing by my hanger in Ogden and show me what a finished -10 looks like....Mike Howe is right down the road also. Also, I do not find the temperatures all that bad in the morning, a little hot on the ground, but great at altitude. But it is a dry heat.....so in the afternoon it is like the dry heat in a sauna. Do not archive Rene' Felker 40322 Fuselage/finish kit -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 12:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:44 PM PST US From: GRANSCOTT@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Tim, I'm not from that area nor fly down there but do have a number of friends in that area...it's my understanding that you want to make the crossing through the mountains you want to enter it early in the morning as early as possible if its clear...by the afternoon convection's build in the valleys and climb along the walls making for lots of turbulence and a rough ride on any aircraft, unless you're well over the tops. Additionally in the afternoon the head winds will increase from the west southwest to east northeast generally because of the convective activity... Patrick do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:34:43 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven From: "Conti, Rick" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you to fly anywhere ?! DO NOT ARCHIVE Thank You Rick Conti Senior Engineering Manager The Boeing Company office: 703 - 414 - 6141 blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 -----Original Message----- From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:05 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson There is but one woman....and I don't argue with a woman with a gun...especially a rivet gun. ;) I've been reading all of your on and off list responses and they all seem to have a common theme. The part that stinks is if I leave from Wisconsin, I can probably easily make Vegas in one day, but I'd have to be willing to fly through the worst of it in the afternoon to do that. Perhaps I would be better flying to Denver or something, and then get up the next day and leave early? It's hard to tell what makes a good plan. I am considering the circle route and coming back up the coast. Actually, it may end up being that I go down there that way and come back the planned route, as I'm on call the following week but I'm not for that whole week before. So I have little time after the 1st, but a bit before. Thanks everyone for your encouragement and your offers of a home for the plane! - Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Conti, Rick wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" > > Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you to > fly anywhere ?! > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Thank You > Rick Conti > Senior Engineering Manager > The Boeing Company > office: 703 - 414 - 6141 > blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > Ok, so I'm paranoid... > > There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from > Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's > *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem > is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, > and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I > did some research on is the average daily temps, which get > into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... > and that's "average". The other much more minor issue > is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max > mountain height is 10,000'. > > What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there > in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, > tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely > to see during that time of year right around July 1st? > > I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, > but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. > > All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the > last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for > a flight. You'd be cooking up here. > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:56 PM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen Or the alternate, Fly Commercial. :-( Conti, Rick wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" > > Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you to > fly anywhere ?! > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Thank You > Rick Conti > Senior Engineering Manager > The Boeing Company > office: 703 - 414 - 6141 > blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > Ok, so I'm paranoid... > > There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from > Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's > *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem > is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, > and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I > did some research on is the average daily temps, which get > into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... > and that's "average". The other much more minor issue > is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max > mountain height is 10,000'. > > What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there > in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, > tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely > to see during that time of year right around July 1st? > > I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, > but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. > > All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the > last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for > a flight. You'd be cooking up here. > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:20 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis Tim, I'm currently living in Arizona and I've done most of my flying in the Western US. The rule of thumb most of us use is to launch EARLY (as early as possible) and be on the ground before midday. By doing so you can usually enjoy a clear and smooth ride. From 10:00 on the convective activity increases . Mid July is when we begin the 'monsoon' season, which draws moisture up from the south and makes for some considerable convective activity by the noon time hour.If there is any moisture in the area at all you can expect cumulus, and not infrequently nimbus and giganticus . Flying @ 10-14k is the norm when crossing west to east or visa versa. If your itinerary doesn't mandate Las Vegas, I'd suggest a more direct route after crossing the Grand Canyon. Be advised that flight over the GC is restricted and there are designated crossing 'lanes'. Make sure that you fly over Lake Powell and take in the Monuments and arches before the GC. Don't worry about the temp @ altitude, it will be 30 degrees cooler @ 10K, and oh yeah remember "it's a dry heat!" Deems Davis # 406 Joining fuse &tailcone http://deemsrv10.com/ Tim Olson wrote: > Ok, so I'm paranoid... > > There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from > Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's > *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem > is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, > and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I > did some research on is the average daily temps, which get > into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... > and that's "average". The other much more minor issue > is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max > mountain height is 10,000'. > > What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there > in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, > tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely > to see during that time of year right around July 1st? > > I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, > but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. > > All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the > last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for > a flight. You'd be cooking up here. > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:19:31 PM PST US From: "Gary Specketer" Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "Gary Specketer" Besides all the other tips people send in, I suggest gatoraid. I have made the trip several times from MSP and done it both VFR and IFR. I much prefer VFR to do some sight seeing. I flew to Laramie WY then over the ridge and straight south to Kremling CO. Head west to Grand Junction and follow the Colorado river down to Lake Powell. It is very scenic and very desolate. I then went west to St George UT and down into Las Vagas. Then west into the Mohave and crossed into the LA basin through the EL Cajon pass. You can fly the whole route and not get above 10,000'. Go early and beware of density altitude. It can easily get to be 11,000' in places like Laramie. What is your climb rate at 11,000 at full gross? Call me if you want to chat about other possible routes. Gary -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:57 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Tim: You are, of course, realizing the distinction between Las Vegas, NM (KLVS) and Las Vegas, NV (KLAS or KVGT or KHND). I also don't recommend landing at KLSV (Nellis AFB). The Security Forces guys might not appreciate that . . . ! TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson There is but one woman....and I don't argue with a woman with a gun...especially a rivet gun. ;) I've been reading all of your on and off list responses and they all seem to have a common theme. The part that stinks is if I leave from Wisconsin, I can probably easily make Vegas in one day, but I'd have to be willing to fly through the worst of it in the afternoon to do that. Perhaps I would be better flying to Denver or something, and then get up the next day and leave early? It's hard to tell what makes a good plan. I am considering the circle route and coming back up the coast. Actually, it may end up being that I go down there that way and come back the planned route, as I'm on call the following week but I'm not for that whole week before. So I have little time after the 1st, but a bit before. Thanks everyone for your encouragement and your offers of a home for the plane! - Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Conti, Rick wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" > > Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you to > fly anywhere ?! > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Thank You > Rick Conti > Senior Engineering Manager > The Boeing Company > office: 703 - 414 - 6141 > blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > Ok, so I'm paranoid... > > There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from > Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's > *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem > is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, > and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I > did some research on is the average daily temps, which get > into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... > and that's "average". The other much more minor issue > is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max > mountain height is 10,000'. > > What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there > in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, > tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely > to see during that time of year right around July 1st? > > I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, > but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. > > All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the > last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for > a flight. You'd be cooking up here. > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:22:01 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Or maybe we'll find out if Tim can install an a/c system in his airplane within the next two months! TDT Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson There is but one woman....and I don't argue with a woman with a gun...especially a rivet gun. ;) I've been reading all of your on and off list responses and they all seem to have a common theme. The part that stinks is if I leave from Wisconsin, I can probably easily make Vegas in one day, but I'd have to be willing to fly through the worst of it in the afternoon to do that. Perhaps I would be better flying to Denver or something, and then get up the next day and leave early? It's hard to tell what makes a good plan. I am considering the circle route and coming back up the coast. Actually, it may end up being that I go down there that way and come back the planned route, as I'm on call the following week but I'm not for that whole week before. So I have little time after the 1st, but a bit before. Thanks everyone for your encouragement and your offers of a home for the plane! - Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Conti, Rick wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" > > Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you to > fly anywhere ?! > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Thank You > Rick Conti > Senior Engineering Manager > The Boeing Company > office: 703 - 414 - 6141 > blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > Ok, so I'm paranoid... > > There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from > Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's > *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem > is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, > and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I > did some research on is the average daily temps, which get > into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... > and that's "average". The other much more minor issue > is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max > mountain height is 10,000'. > > What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there > in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, > tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely > to see during that time of year right around July 1st? > > I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, > but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. > > All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the > last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for > a flight. You'd be cooking up here. > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven From: Dj Merrill --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill Larry Rosen wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen > > Or the alternate, Fly Commercial. :-( Aaahh! Heretic! *wink* -Dj do not archive -- "TSA: Totally Screwing Aviation" ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:10 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Or you might get run over by a Raptor. Of course you have a couple big, long, dry lake bed runways about 100 miles north. Weeeeee. Michael Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:20 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> Tim: You are, of course, realizing the distinction between Las Vegas, NM (KLVS) and Las Vegas, NV (KLAS or KVGT or KHND). I also don't recommend landing at KLSV (Nellis AFB). The Security Forces guys might not appreciate that . . . ! TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson There is but one woman....and I don't argue with a woman with a gun...especially a rivet gun. ;) I've been reading all of your on and off list responses and they all seem to have a common theme. The part that stinks is if I leave from Wisconsin, I can probably easily make Vegas in one day, but I'd have to be willing to fly through the worst of it in the afternoon to do that. Perhaps I would be better flying to Denver or something, and then get up the next day and leave early? It's hard to tell what makes a good plan. I am considering the circle route and coming back up the coast. Actually, it may end up being that I go down there that way and come back the planned route, as I'm on call the following week but I'm not for that whole week before. So I have little time after the 1st, but a bit before. Thanks everyone for your encouragement and your offers of a home for the plane! - Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Conti, Rick wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" > > Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you to > fly anywhere ?! > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Thank You > Rick Conti > Senior Engineering Manager > The Boeing Company > office: 703 - 414 - 6141 > blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > Ok, so I'm paranoid... > > There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from > Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's > *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be > flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to > Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the > average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in > those SouthWest states... > and that's "average". The other much more minor issue > is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height > is 10,000'. > > What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those > areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of > weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year > right around July 1st? > > I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so > I can do some visiting and sightseeing. > > All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing > I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking > up here. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:46 PM PST US From: Bruce Patton Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven My main Recreational Vehicle has 15 meter wings and no motor so I generally don't launch until the afternoon and hate smooth. I would recommend Oxygen for the West, if you cruise below 8,000 you are scraping rocks, or so it seems, and have a long way to go to a strip. Flying in some areas below 12K is marginal. I get a headache and go dumb (er) above 9K, so I have a Mountain High EDS for the glider and two place system in the RV-6. Wonderful and very low Oxygen use. Talking to a pilot who just put his Reno racer into a dirt strip in the mountains, I learned an interesting thing about the wonderful world of GPS and the applications we use. Apparently he pushed the "Nearest Airport" when the problems started and discovered the nearest was far out of glide range. He headed to what appeared to be a level area and found a 3500 foot gravel/rock strip where he made a semi-successful landing and walked away. The strip was on the charts, but when he set up his software, he had specified the minimums for a nearest airport to be some length with a hard surface. So the computer ignored the airport that most likely saved his life and told him just what he wanted, but did not need. Bruce Patton ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:13 PM PST US From: Shawn Moon Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven I have done all of my training in and around Arizona. It really isn't that bad, you just have to do it early. I've done the afternoons in the summer and really they aren't too bad, assuming there aren't any thunderstorms around. Generally, the first thunderstorms seem to start on or within one day of the Fourth of July. Best bet is to be down before two or three o'clock. You could also go for the bumpy ride at Va and just avoid the build up. By the way, it is currently 95 here in Phoenix...uuugghh...I've been here for seven years and I still don't like it. "Dry heat"....yeah, right....when it is 110 it doesn't matter if it is dry, damp or wet.....It's too frikken hot! --Shawn 40366 Tim Olson wrote: Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:50 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Hee hee - somebody give Tim the coordinates for Area 51 (Groom Lake) and tell him there's cheap gas there . . . TDT do not archive ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 4:51 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Or you might get run over by a Raptor. Of course you have a couple big, long, dry lake bed runways about 100 miles north. Weeeeee. Michael Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:20 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> Tim: You are, of course, realizing the distinction between Las Vegas, NM (KLVS) and Las Vegas, NV (KLAS or KVGT or KHND). I also don't recommend landing at KLSV (Nellis AFB). The Security Forces guys might not appreciate that . . . ! TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:53 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson There is but one woman....and I don't argue with a woman with a gun...especially a rivet gun. ;) I've been reading all of your on and off list responses and they all seem to have a common theme. The part that stinks is if I leave from Wisconsin, I can probably easily make Vegas in one day, but I'd have to be willing to fly through the worst of it in the afternoon to do that. Perhaps I would be better flying to Denver or something, and then get up the next day and leave early? It's hard to tell what makes a good plan. I am considering the circle route and coming back up the coast. Actually, it may end up being that I go down there that way and come back the planned route, as I'm on call the following week but I'm not for that whole week before. So I have little time after the 1st, but a bit before. Thanks everyone for your encouragement and your offers of a home for the plane! - Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Conti, Rick wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" > > Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you to > fly anywhere ?! > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > Thank You > Rick Conti > Senior Engineering Manager > The Boeing Company > office: 703 - 414 - 6141 > blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > Ok, so I'm paranoid... > > There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from > Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's > *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be > flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to > Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the > average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in > those SouthWest states... > and that's "average". The other much more minor issue > is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height > is 10,000'. > > What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those > areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of > weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year > right around July 1st? > > I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so > I can do some visiting and sightseeing. > > All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing > I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking > up here. > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D RV10-List Email Forum - more: bsp; HREF=3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic= s .com/Navigator?RV10-List =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D bsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - bsp; HREF=3D"http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D bsp; - List Contribution Web Site - bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. HREF=3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c= o ntribution =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:53 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cabin Door Fit --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" Scribe lines are mainly for general reference, but often it would probably be better if they weren't there. Read the instructions, measure and mark, measure again, read the instructions again (a couple pages ahead if necessary), measure again, start cutting, measure again, finish cutting, measure again, smile smugly that you beat the scribe lines with accuracy. #40415 N415EC in the paint shop to come out in a week looking a lot better, hopefully. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org 352-465-4545 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Testement Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 9:40 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cabin Door Fit --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Testement" I over trimmed my canopy at the bottom edges of the door sill and had to go back and rebuild the frame to add back about 1/2 inch. This came out great although is took some time, I think the scribe lines are inaccurate. John Testement jwt@roadmapscoaching.com 40321 Richmond, VA QB canopy and windshield trim -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Sunday, April 30, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cabin Door Fit --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Without commenting on each gap, in general I have 1/16-1/8" gap around the sides, tighter towards the top. A bit more along the bottom edge, and I can see the door seal. You'll find that the door seals very well, so if you have a little extra gap I'm betting there is no problem. I did find that I needed a little extra after I added fabric, so don't let it get too extremely tight. Wish you could sit in mine and close the doors. Seeing it makes more sense than building it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Larry Rosen wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen > > Today I am breathing more fiberglass dust as I work on fitting the > cabin doors. I have the doors mounted and clecoed together, but not > yet epoxied together. I have a tight fit between the door and the lip > of the cabin frame on the top and forward edge. The bottom 8" of the > froward door to cabin frame has a 1/4" gap. The door sits 1/2" above > the bottom sill with a 3/8' gap from the door to the return of the > frame. The back of the door has up to an 1/4" gap. I believe I > trimmed the cabin top to the scribe line. Do the gaps I described > above sound correct? > > In the future steps of the plans it has the cabin top frame return > tight to the door. Do I leave enough gap for the upholstery fabric? > -- -- -- -- ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:13 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" I don't live there, but being from FL where it can get pretty hot on a long taxi, the best thing I can suggest is hold the doors open when taxiing, fly high, make as few stops as possible. Do not archive. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org 352-465-4545 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive -- -- ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:28:48 PM PST US From: Bruce Patton Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven (got cut off for some reason) Talking to a pilot who just put his Reno racer into a dirt strip in the mountains, I learned an interesting thing about the wonderful world of GPS and the applications we use. Apparently he pushed the "Nearest Airport" when the problems started and discovered the nearest was far out of glide range. He headed to what appeared to be a flat area within glide range and found a 3500 foot gravel/rock strip. He put it down semi-successfully and walked away. When he set up the GPS for the "nearest Airport" function, he had asked for a long runway a hard surface so the computer ignored the airport that probably saved his life. He was lucky to fly right over the airport which apparently was not showing on the map for the same reason. Bruce Patton Bruce Patton wrote: My main Recreational Vehicle has 15 meter wings and no motor so I generally don't launch until the afternoon and hate smooth. I would recommend Oxygen for the West, if you cruise below 8,000 you are scraping rocks, or so it seems, and have a long way to go to a strip. Flying in some areas below 12K is marginal. I get a headache and go dumb (er) above 9K, so I have a Mountain High EDS for the glider and two place system in the RV-6. Wonderful and very low Oxygen use. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:46 PM PST US From: greerdans@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Model Jesse - I'm intercepting my husband e-mail because he mentioned this model. Please=20= don't respond to the greerdans e-mail address. Use the one below. I wanted to find out how I can order one of the models for him for our 25th=20= anniversary which is the middle of June. He doesn't have colors picked out,= but we do have our N number. I think he would be so thrilled with this lit= tle gift since his real RV 10 is about 2 years away from reality. My work e-mail is lcostigan@alphabs.com. Thanks for the info. Leslie Costigan -----Original Message----- From: Jesse Saint Sent: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 19:16:36 -0500 Subject: RE: RV10-List: Model I think I can get it done, painted, and delivered as soon as the end of next= week in the States (depending on how close you are to Virginia) for about $= 150. I would just need pictures (or drawings) with as much detail as possib= le, and whether you want the moving parts painted (ie: doors outlined, contr= ol surfaces, baggage door, etc.). Tim had that done on his, but we did ours= without it. I think it looks better without it, personally. I would also need to know info like N-number, names that you want on the bas= e, etc. Let me know. I can get the guy to make more if you want to wait a while, bu= t it would take longer to get them in. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org 352-465-4545 From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma= tronics.com] On Behalf Of Robin Marks Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 7:05 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Model Do you have a cost delivered (or flown) to the US? Robin 10 on order Do not archive From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma= tronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 4:47 PM Subject: RV10-List: Model I have a guy here in Ecuador who makes little models of planes like Tim Olso= n has of his -10. He has made them for us and the workmanship is first rate= , even down to the antennas. He has 3 -10=E2=80=99s made, just needs to be=20= painted. If anybody is interest Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org 352-465-4545 -- -- -- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:54:04 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson So where can I find them Aliens, and I don't mean them there illegal kind who's is striking today. I still have to pay them back for that probe they did when they picked me up years ago. Oh, and yeah, I figured out the difference between the 2 Vegas's... I just tried to plot a general route to get a distance and see the mountain heights. In actuality, I'd adjust it based on leg length and gas price. Ours just went up .55 cents this week to 3.609/gal. Still way off from some of the really high prices, but 2 years ago I would have had to fly to one of the biggest airports to pay this much. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > Hee hee somebody give Tim the coordinates for Area 51 (Groom Lake) > and tell him theres cheap gas there . . . > > > > TDT > do not archive > > > > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder > (Michael Sausen) > *Sent:* Monday, May 01, 2006 4:51 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > > > Or you might get run over by a Raptor. Of course you have a couple > big, long, dry lake bed runways about 100 miles north. Weeeeee. > > Michael > > Do Not Archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim > Dawson-Townsend > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:20 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > --> > > > Tim: > > You are, of course, realizing the distinction between Las Vegas, NM > (KLVS) and Las Vegas, NV (KLAS or KVGT or KHND). > > I also don't recommend landing at KLSV (Nellis AFB). The Security > Forces guys might not appreciate that . . . ! > > TDT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:53 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > There is but one woman....and I don't argue with a woman with a > gun...especially a rivet gun. ;) > > I've been reading all of your on and off list responses and they all > seem to have a common theme. The part that stinks is if I leave from > Wisconsin, I can probably easily make Vegas in one day, but I'd have to > be willing to fly through the worst of it in the afternoon to do that. > Perhaps I would be better flying to Denver or something, > and then get up the next day and leave early? It's hard > to tell what makes a good plan. I am considering the circle route and > coming back up the coast. Actually, it may end up being that I go down > there that way and come back the planned route, as I'm on call the > following week but I'm not for that whole week before. So I have little > time after the 1st, but a bit before. > > Thanks everyone for your encouragement and your offers of a home for the > plane! > - > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Conti, Rick wrote: >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" >> >> Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you > to >> fly anywhere ?! >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> Thank You >> Rick Conti >> Senior Engineering Manager >> The Boeing Company >> office: 703 - 414 - 6141 >> blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven >> >> Ok, so I'm paranoid... >> >> There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from >> Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's >> *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be >> flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to >> Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the >> average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in >> those SouthWest states... >> and that's "average". The other much more minor issue >> is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height >> is 10,000'. >> >> What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those >> areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of >> weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year >> right around July 1st? >> >> I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so >> I can do some visiting and sightseeing. >> >> All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing >> I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking >> up here. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==================================== > RV10-List Email Forum - > more: > bsp; > HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > ==================================== > bsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > bsp; > HREF="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com > ==================================== > bsp; - List Contribution Web Site - > bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ==================================== > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:17 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" .55 cents isn't bad in one jump. Now, if it had been 55 cents or .55 dollar(s), that would be a big jump. :-) Do not archive. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org 352-465-4545 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 4:53 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson So where can I find them Aliens, and I don't mean them there illegal kind who's is striking today. I still have to pay them back for that probe they did when they picked me up years ago. Oh, and yeah, I figured out the difference between the 2 Vegas's... I just tried to plot a general route to get a distance and see the mountain heights. In actuality, I'd adjust it based on leg length and gas price. Ours just went up .55 cents this week to 3.609/gal. Still way off from some of the really high prices, but 2 years ago I would have had to fly to one of the biggest airports to pay this much. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > Hee hee somebody give Tim the coordinates for Area 51 (Groom Lake) > and tell him theres cheap gas there . . . > > > > TDT > do not archive > > > > > > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder > (Michael Sausen) > *Sent:* Monday, May 01, 2006 4:51 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > > > Or you might get run over by a Raptor. Of course you have a couple > big, long, dry lake bed runways about 100 miles north. Weeeeee. > > Michael > > Do Not Archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim > Dawson-Townsend > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:20 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > --> > > > Tim: > > You are, of course, realizing the distinction between Las Vegas, NM > (KLVS) and Las Vegas, NV (KLAS or KVGT or KHND). > > I also don't recommend landing at KLSV (Nellis AFB). The Security > Forces guys might not appreciate that . . . ! > > TDT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:53 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > There is but one woman....and I don't argue with a woman with a > gun...especially a rivet gun. ;) > > I've been reading all of your on and off list responses and they all > seem to have a common theme. The part that stinks is if I leave from > Wisconsin, I can probably easily make Vegas in one day, but I'd have to > be willing to fly through the worst of it in the afternoon to do that. > Perhaps I would be better flying to Denver or something, > and then get up the next day and leave early? It's hard > to tell what makes a good plan. I am considering the circle route and > coming back up the coast. Actually, it may end up being that I go down > there that way and come back the planned route, as I'm on call the > following week but I'm not for that whole week before. So I have little > time after the 1st, but a bit before. > > Thanks everyone for your encouragement and your offers of a home for the > plane! > - > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Conti, Rick wrote: >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" >> >> Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you > to >> fly anywhere ?! >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> Thank You >> Rick Conti >> Senior Engineering Manager >> The Boeing Company >> office: 703 - 414 - 6141 >> blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] >> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven >> >> Ok, so I'm paranoid... >> >> There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from >> Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's >> *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be >> flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to >> Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the >> average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in >> those SouthWest states... >> and that's "average". The other much more minor issue >> is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height >> is 10,000'. >> >> What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those >> areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of >> weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year >> right around July 1st? >> >> I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so >> I can do some visiting and sightseeing. >> >> All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing >> I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking >> up here. >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==================================== > RV10-List Email Forum - > more: > bsp; > HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?RV10-List > ==================================== > bsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - > bsp; > HREF="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com > ==================================== > bsp; - List Contribution Web Site - > bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri bution > ==================================== > > > > > > > > -- -- ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:23 PM PST US From: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer@verizon.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Chamberlain" <10flyer@verizon.net> Tim, as others have mentioned, the desert southwest is primarily a nice ride in the morning. Be sure to factor in the June/July gloom doom along the coast in the summer time. Generally speaking there is an overcast in the mornings until around 11am and it returns about 2-3pm. Some days it is present all day. I live just inland from Oceanside in Temecula(F70) and it is usually clear after 10am. The overcast is typically about 1k ft and tops out at 3k ft and it is very easy to get pop-up approaches into airports and get the runway well before mins. If you get time, or get stuck, drop by French Valley (F70) for a visit. Mark N104ML (65hrs) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:35 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Ok, ok, so the increase was actually 100 times bigger than I thought! :) Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Jesse Saint wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" > > .55 cents isn't bad in one jump. Now, if it had been 55 cents or .55 > dollar(s), that would be a big jump. :-) > > Do not archive. > > Jesse Saint > I-TEC, Inc. > jesse@itecusa.org > www.itecusa.org > 352-465-4545 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 4:53 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > So where can I find them Aliens, and I don't mean them there > illegal kind who's is striking today. I still have to pay them back > for that probe they did when they picked me up years ago. > > Oh, and yeah, I figured out the difference between the 2 Vegas's... > I just tried to plot a general route to get a distance and see > the mountain heights. In actuality, I'd adjust it based on > leg length and gas price. Ours just went up .55 cents this week > to 3.609/gal. Still way off from some of the really high prices, > but 2 years ago I would have had to fly to one of the biggest > airports to pay this much. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: >> Hee hee somebody give Tim the coordinates for Area 51 (Groom Lake) >> and tell him theres cheap gas there . . . >> >> >> >> TDT >> do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV Builder >> (Michael Sausen) >> *Sent:* Monday, May 01, 2006 4:51 PM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven >> >> >> >> Or you might get run over by a Raptor. Of course you have a couple >> big, long, dry lake bed runways about 100 miles north. Weeeeee. >> >> Michael >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim >> Dawson-Townsend >> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:20 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" >> --> >> >> >> Tim: >> >> You are, of course, realizing the distinction between Las Vegas, NM >> (KLVS) and Las Vegas, NV (KLAS or KVGT or KHND). >> >> I also don't recommend landing at KLSV (Nellis AFB). The Security >> Forces guys might not appreciate that . . . ! >> >> TDT >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson >> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 3:53 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson >> >> There is but one woman....and I don't argue with a woman with a >> gun...especially a rivet gun. ;) >> >> I've been reading all of your on and off list responses and they all >> seem to have a common theme. The part that stinks is if I leave from >> Wisconsin, I can probably easily make Vegas in one day, but I'd have to >> be willing to fly through the worst of it in the afternoon to do that. >> Perhaps I would be better flying to Denver or something, >> and then get up the next day and leave early? It's hard >> to tell what makes a good plan. I am considering the circle route and >> coming back up the coast. Actually, it may end up being that I go down >> there that way and come back the planned route, as I'm on call the >> following week but I'm not for that whole week before. So I have little >> time after the 1st, but a bit before. >> >> Thanks everyone for your encouragement and your offers of a home for the >> plane! >> - >> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying >> do not archive >> >> >> Conti, Rick wrote: >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Conti, Rick" >>> >>> Tim, I don't understand. Who could possibly force a big guy like you >> to >>> fly anywhere ?! >>> >>> DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> Thank You >>> Rick Conti >>> Senior Engineering Manager >>> The Boeing Company >>> office: 703 - 414 - 6141 >>> blackberry: 571 - 215 - 6134 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Tim Olson [mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com] >>> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 2:26 PM >>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven >>> >>> Ok, so I'm paranoid... >>> >>> There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from >>> Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's >>> *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be >>> flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to >>> Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the >>> average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in >>> those SouthWest states... >>> and that's "average". The other much more minor issue >>> is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height >>> is 10,000'. >>> >>> What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those >>> areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of >>> weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year >>> right around July 1st? >>> >>> I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so >>> I can do some visiting and sightseeing. >>> >>> All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing >>> I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking >>> up here. >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ==================================== >> RV10-List Email Forum - >> more: >> bsp; >> > HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com > /Navigator?RV10-List >> ==================================== >> bsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - >> bsp; >> HREF="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com >> ==================================== >> bsp; - List Contribution Web Site - >> bsp; -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> > HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri > bution >> ==================================== >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:00 PM PST US From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" At least here in Vegas it's a dry heat. Bob K -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:00 PM PST US From: "bob.kaufmann" Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Well the weather in Vegas, the Nevada one is really bad that time of year. You have terrible visability and really can't see much farther than 80 or 90 miles. It's ocassionally overcast, high thin that is, and generally the con level is around 40,000 feet. Thermals pick up in the afternoon, so its best to fly in the morning, afternoons, the temperatures make for a longer landing roll. May take the 10 almost 800 feet to get airborn. Learn to taxi with the doors open, and get high fast, 10,000 is a nice cruise altitude. May be afternoon thundertstorms, but real fireworks is in the Valley on the 4th. If you are real lucky, you may also be able to see a building implosion, so come on down. Bob K _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Moon Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 12:56 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven I have done all of my training in and around Arizona. It really isn't that bad, you just have to do it early. I've done the afternoons in the summer and really they aren't too bad, assuming there aren't any thunderstorms around. Generally, the first thunderstorms seem to start on or within one day of the Fourth of July. Best bet is to be down before two or three o'clock. You could also go for the bumpy ride at Va and just avoid the build up. By the way, it is currently 95 here in Phoenix...uuugghh...I've been here for seven years and I still don't like it. "Dry heat"....yeah, right....when it is 110 it doesn't matter if it is dry, damp or wet.....It's too frikken hot! --Shawn 40366 Tim Olson wrote: Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive _____ Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" You can hangar your plane in VGT at our hangar, we have the room. Bob K -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 10:26 AM Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:03 PM PST US From: "Cal Hoffman" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone Do not archive Back riveting on the fuselage. The attached pictures show a rivet set machined to a flat face with a 1/32" deep flat cut. This holds the set on the rivet shop end. The other is the bucking bar, 5-3/4" long with a polished 2" face. I had mine made by a friend but I suspect they are also available for sale. This combination works well on almost all rivet locations and is easier to handle than the backing plate. Cal Hoffman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert G. Wright" Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:22 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" > > My back rivet set hasn't held up well, and it didn't have enough clearance > beside some of the J-channel, so I just used my flush set and was careful to > keep it level and not allow it to slide off, which happened anyway a few > times. Just hit the rivet one more time in a level attitude and it looks > great! > > Rob > #392 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:57 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick > > Yes, it is very doable. I did it on mine. Just take your time and move your > back riveting plate down each row of rivets taking care to make sure the > plate is on the rivet and the skin is resting flush on the plate. If I > recall there is a few you can't/might not be able to do alone. It can get > awkward moving around that big ole tub on your bench. I could figure out how > to do it in my sleep now after plugging away on this project for two+ years. > Step back, look at what you want to do, it is pretty easy to develop a back > rivet plant...mine came out real nice. Gt ready to become a building wizard > as time go on. > > Rick S. > 40185 > Fuse/finish > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:06 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone From: "McGANN, Ron" A normal (spring loaded) back rivet set is more user friendly. I have used the 12" offset backrivet set (almost identical to the one pictured, just longer and slightly offset). It is a pig to use and if you have the set at even a slight angle, you will dent the skin - ask how I know. If you must use a set like this, and there are places where it is invaluable, I would suggest slicing a soft pencil eraser block (eg Staedtler or Faber Castel) about 1/32-1/16" thick, putting a 1/8" hole in it and placing this over the rivet before it is set. It will serve the dual purpose of squeezing the flange/skins together and preventing any dents in the metal. Works real well with a squeezer also - see before and after pictures attached. Don't have the eraser too thick, the rivet won't set and you will work harden just the end. cheers, Ron #187 fuse -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Cal Hoffman Sent: Tuesday, 2 May 2006 10:21 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone Do not archive Back riveting on the fuselage. The attached pictures show a rivet set machined to a flat face with a 1/32" deep flat cut. This holds the set on the rivet shop end. The other is the bucking bar, 5-3/4" long with a polished 2" face. I had mine made by a friend but I suspect they are also available for sale. This combination works well on almost all rivet locations and is easier to handle than the backing plate. Cal Hoffman ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:06 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: RV10-List: True Flight software --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" Anyone have any experience with this software. I am considering installing on my notebook with portable GPS and WXworx in my Glastar until the 10 gets finished. ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:19 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" Avery at least, and I am sure many others have a great back-rivet set with a plastic sleeve and a spring. This sets wonderful rivets. Also, we have a round bucking bar about 3.5 inches in diameter and about 1.75 inches thick that works great and allows for bucking 2-3 rivets without moving it. That works great. In places that can be laid flat, a 4x8 table with a 1/4" steel top works awesome, but it is a bear to move, weighing around 800lbs probably. Do not archive. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org 352-465-4545 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cal Hoffman Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 7:51 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone Do not archive Back riveting on the fuselage. The attached pictures show a rivet set machined to a flat face with a 1/32" deep flat cut. This holds the set on the rivet shop end. The other is the bucking bar, 5-3/4" long with a polished 2" face. I had mine made by a friend but I suspect they are also available for sale. This combination works well on almost all rivet locations and is easier to handle than the backing plate. Cal Hoffman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert G. Wright" Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:22 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" > > My back rivet set hasn't held up well, and it didn't have enough clearance > beside some of the J-channel, so I just used my flush set and was careful to > keep it level and not allow it to slide off, which happened anyway a few > times. Just hit the rivet one more time in a level attitude and it looks > great! > > Rob > #392 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick > Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:57 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Riviting the tailcone > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick > > Yes, it is very doable. I did it on mine. Just take your time and move your > back riveting plate down each row of rivets taking care to make sure the > plate is on the rivet and the skin is resting flush on the plate. If I > recall there is a few you can't/might not be able to do alone. It can get > awkward moving around that big ole tub on your bench. I could figure out how > to do it in my sleep now after plugging away on this project for two+ years. > Step back, look at what you want to do, it is pretty easy to develop a back > rivet plant...mine came out real nice. Gt ready to become a building wizard > as time go on. > > Rick S. > 40185 > Fuse/finish > > -- -- ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:12 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: True Flight software --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" We have been flying with a flight cheetah since soon after OSH last year. When it works it is awesome. They have some great features, especially the ease of pulling up a plate of the selected approach, but it has been less than super-stable. Maybe it is our setup, maybe it is their software, maybe it is their hardware, maybe it is our flying style (very high, using a spinning hard drive), and maybe a combination of the above. If you aren't flying high, you can eliminate one of these variables. If you go Bluetooth, then you will have less problems with cables and things like that (which has proven a little bit of a bear for us. If you use a good computer that you know is stable in flight, that might help. Again, when it works, it is AWESOME! When it does not work, well, it is useless, of course. I think overall I would recommend it. Oh, the best deal is the updates. You get all navaids, all plates, all software updates, for about $200 a year, if it hasn't changed. That's hard to beat. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org 352-465-4545 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 9:18 PM Subject: RV10-List: True Flight software --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" Anyone have any experience with this software. I am considering installing on my notebook with portable GPS and WXworx in my Glastar until the 10 gets finished. -- -- ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:12 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:50 PM PST US From: "Robert G. Wright" Subject: RV10-List: QB QB fuse and wings arrived today! Inventory is done (check the timestamp!) and I have no more room in my workshop. Cabin top will have to go to the hangar for a while.My RV grin can only get bigger. Rob #392 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:50 PM PST US From: "Robert G. Wright" Subject: RE: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" If forced, then go commercial. Don't do anything in a small GA until you know you're ready to push _your_ limits. rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: RV10-List: X/C into a convection oven Ok, so I'm paranoid... There's a chance that I might be forcibly ordered to fly from Wisconsin to San Diego, CA for a wedding on July 1st. It's *only* a 12 hour flight, so that's no problem. The problem is, I'd be flying down to New Mexico, across the Grand Canyon, and then up to Vegas and down to San Diego. One thing I did some research on is the average daily temps, which get into the 102-108 degree F range in those SouthWest states... and that's "average". The other much more minor issue is the mountains, as it looks like on my route my max mountain height is 10,000'. What I'd like to know is, can someone who lives down there in those areas, or anywhere in between Wisconsin and there, tell me how bad of weather and it's effects am I likely to see during that time of year right around July 1st? I've attached a picture of my route. It's not straight, but that's so I can do some visiting and sightseeing. All I know is if it was 105 degrees up where I live, the last thing I'd want do do is climb in my airplane for a flight. You'd be cooking up here. -- Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:30 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV10-List: Official RV10-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) --> RV10-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the RV10-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete RV10-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV10-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains RV10-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the RV10-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the RV10-List running smoothly for all of us. **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: rv10-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ***************************************************************** *** Enclosures Stripped Out - Can't Get a Virus From the List *** ***************************************************************** Any enclosures that are posted to the List will automatically be stripped off, and ONLY the plain/text portion of the message will be forwarded to the List. Please configure your Email application to send Plain Text Only, and disable any "Quoted Printable" or "HTML" encoding whenever possible. Because enclosures are stripped out of incoming posts to the List, the likelihood of getting a virus from the List is extremely small. If you do receive a message that appears to be from the List, and it does include a virus, it is very likely that it was sent *directly* to you from someone on the List who has a virus. This is a specific kind of virus, and you should try to inform the sender, if possible. The best protection against viruses is a good virus protection program such as Norton Antivirus. State of the art in virus protection today's world gives maximum protection with little or no negative impact on the computer system. You can't afford to be without a good virus protection program these days. Note that some limited enclosure posting is now enabled on a number of Lists. Allowed types include .jpg, .gif, .txt, .pdf, .xls, and a few other similar types. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "rv10-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the RV10-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the RV10-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv10-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all RV10-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the RV10-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * RV10-List.FAQ - Latest version of the RV10-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * RV10-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * RV10-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * RV10-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * RV10-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the RV10-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the RV10-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?RV10 ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV10-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV10-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:07 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV10-List: Official RV10-List Usage Guidelines --> RV10-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Listers, Please read over the RV10-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete RV10-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV10-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV10-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV10-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV10-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV10-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV10-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.]