Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - test (Marc and Kathy)
2. 05:05 AM - Re: Firesleeving (Ralph E. Capen)
3. 01:35 PM - Re: Performance numbers at highter alt. (John Jessen)
4. 01:55 PM - Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone (John Jessen)
5. 01:57 PM - Sorry about that (John Jessen)
6. 02:08 PM - Re: Performance numbers at highter alt. (John Gonzalez)
7. 02:15 PM - Re: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone (Ralph E. Capen)
8. 02:20 PM - Re: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone (Deems Davis)
9. 02:59 PM - Re: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com)
10. 03:50 PM - Re: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone (John Jessen)
11. 05:44 PM - Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole) (John Jessen)
12. 07:59 PM - Re: Back riveting the tailcone (John Gonzalez)
13. 08:31 PM - Re: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole) (McGANN, Ron)
14. 09:14 PM - Re: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole) (John Jessen)
15. 09:15 PM - Re: Back riveting the tailcone (elhershb@comcast.net)
16. 09:46 PM - Re: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole) (Robert G. Wright)
17. 11:30 PM - Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone (John Jessen)
Message 1
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test
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Firesleeving |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Thanks to Ross for the info....
Jerry's correct and the size they recommend for the flowmeter/transducer is -24
which ACS does not carry.
Anyone got a foot of -24 kicking around?
Either I was looking at the wrong page (likely) or ACS updated their website......
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jerry Grimmonpre <jerry@mc.net>
>Sent: May 3, 2006 12:19 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: RV-List: Firesleeving
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
>AFP recommends firesleeve on the flow meter/transducer.
>Jerry Grimmonpre'
>RV8A Electrical
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ross Scroggs" <rv4ross@charter.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>; <rv6-list@matronics.com>;
><rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:47 PM
>Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV-List: Firesleeving
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Ross Scroggs" <rv4ross@charter.net>
>>
>> Ralph,
>> According to the ACS catalog, page 122, the 303-4 hose uses AE102-9, the
>> 303-6 uses
>> AE102-12. Both firesleeve's use the 900591B-2C clamp.
>> Don't think I've ever seen firesleeve on a flow meter/transducer.
>>
>> Ross Scroggs
>> RV-4 #3911
>> Locust Grove, GA.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>; <rv6-list@matronics.com>;
>> <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 9:38 AM
>> Subject: RV-List: Firesleeving
>>
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>>>From what I've seen, most folks are not firesleeving their oil cooler
>>>>feed/return/pressure lines nor their fuel pressure line which I'm OK
>>>>with.
>>>
>>> Fuel feed/return lines I think need to be firesleeved.....
>>>
>>> I'm having a problem determining what size firesleeve to use. The ACS
>>> website has a table for their firesleeve parts which does not list the
>>> 303 hose that we're supposed to use.
>>>
>>> I'm getting ready to buy the stuff to build my fuel hoses - including the
>>> firesleeving. I'll be building an assembly that includes a pair of hoses
>>> and a fuel flow meter - I'm guessing that I'll need a larger chunk of
>>> firesleeve to go over the flow meter.
>>>
>>> Can anyone tell me what the correct size of Firesleeving is for a 303-4,
>>> 303-6, and Flowscan 201 fuel flow meter?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ralph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Performance numbers at highter alt. |
I must not understand how to search the archives correctly or perhaps what
words to use for this one. I know it was discussed before. Anyway....
Problem: I have an extra hole (in my Tailcone top skin, fellas, sheesh.)
I didn't even know I had it until I began peeling off the plastic to get
ready to final deburr my Tailcone front top skin. Sure enough there are two
holes in the corresponding tab of the rib. Picture attached. Van's says to
dimple and rivet and move on, since it's only one mistake in a long row of
good holes. However, the holes in the skin are so close together that any
dimpling will break through and make it a big hole. What to do?
John Jessen
~328 (this is my first mistake, of course)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Performance numbers at highter alt.
I grounded both through the nut plates. Nav and com work great. The com
needs to be lifted up so it is as vertical as possible. I riveted an extra
trip if alum to the bottom of the com antenna and then bent it so the
antenna could angle up. Randy
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pilotdds@AOL.COM
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance numbers at highter alt.
Randy,I have a flying Rv-10.Panel was built by aerocraft.I am trying to
mount Bob archer ant and am curious how you grounded it given the fact the
wingtips slide inside the skin?Anyone else familiar and have suggestions?
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy DeBauw <Randy@abros.com>
Sent: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:35:46 -0700
Subject: RV10-List: Performance numbers at highter alt.
10.500 alt
20.6 mp
2300 rpm
12.4 gph
136 ind
162 adj
159 gs
10,520 alt.
11,390 density alt Dynon
136kts ind
160 kts adj.
155 kts gs.
12.2 gph
62% power
13,500
13,610 adj dynon
11.3 gph
18.3 mp
2300 rpm
130 kts ind.
162 kts adj
12 gph
151 kts gs (headwind)
Randy N610RV
Message 4
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| Subject: | Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone |
I must not understand how to search the archives correctly or perhaps what
words to use for this one. I know it was discussed before. Anyway....
Problem: I have an extra hole (in my Tailcone top skin, fellas, sheesh.)
I didn't even know I had it until I began peeling off the plastic to get
ready to final deburr my Tailcone front top skin. Sure enough there are two
holes in the corresponding tab of the rib. Picture attached. Van's says to
dimple and rivet and move on, since it's only one mistake in a long row of
good holes. However, the holes in the skin are so close together that any
dimpling will break through and make it a big hole. What to do?
John Jessen
~328 (this is my first mistake, of course)
Message 5
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| Subject: | Sorry about that |
Sorry, forgot to change header, delete content and add picture. I think the
extra hole has me flustered.
John Jessen
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Performance numbers at highter alt. |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
If the extra hole has a bulkhead flange behind it, simply bond the hole to
the flange and move on. I wouldn't(Didn't) put an extra rivet( in my case).
I accidentally made an extra hole with the C frame but it didn't go as far
as make the dimple. Use a metal epoxy after sanding all pieces and rivet
the rest as usual. Prep before painting and you will never ever see it
again.
John G. 409
>From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Performance numbers at highter alt.
>Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 13:31:08 -0700
>
>I must not understand how to search the archives correctly or perhaps what
>words to use for this one. I know it was discussed before. Anyway....
>
>Problem: I have an extra hole (in my Tailcone top skin, fellas, sheesh.)
>
>I didn't even know I had it until I began peeling off the plastic to get
>ready to final deburr my Tailcone front top skin. Sure enough there are
>two
>holes in the corresponding tab of the rib. Picture attached. Van's says
>to
>dimple and rivet and move on, since it's only one mistake in a long row of
>good holes. However, the holes in the skin are so close together that any
>dimpling will break through and make it a big hole. What to do?
>
>John Jessen
> ~328 (this is my first mistake, of course)
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy DeBauw
>Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 4:59 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Performance numbers at highter alt.
>
>
>I grounded both through the nut plates. Nav and com work great. The com
>needs to be lifted up so it is as vertical as possible. I riveted an extra
>trip if alum to the bottom of the com antenna and then bent it so the
>antenna could angle up. Randy
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of pilotdds@AOL.COM
>Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 10:52 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Performance numbers at highter alt.
>
>
>Randy,I have a flying Rv-10.Panel was built by aerocraft.I am trying to
>mount Bob archer ant and am curious how you grounded it given the fact the
>wingtips slide inside the skin?Anyone else familiar and have suggestions?
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Randy DeBauw <Randy@abros.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:35:46 -0700
>Subject: RV10-List: Performance numbers at highter alt.
>
>10.500 alt
>
>20.6 mp
>
>2300 rpm
>
>12.4 gph
>
>136 ind
>
>162 adj
>
>159 gs
>
>
>10,520 alt.
>
>11,390 density alt Dynon
>
>136kts ind
>
>160 kts adj.
>
>155 kts gs.
>
>12.2 gph
>
>62% power
>
>
>13,500
>
>13,610 adj dynon
>
>11.3 gph
>
>18.3 mp
>
>2300 rpm
>
>130 kts ind.
>
>162 kts adj
>
>12 gph
>
>151 kts gs (headwind)
>
>
>Randy N610RV
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
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The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
John, put a doubler of the same (or slightly larger material behind the
correct hole (make it match the size of the double drilled tab) . match
drill it and then use a longer rivet when it comes time to rivet. you
could also consider all of the above and drill for a larger opps rivet.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone |
In a message dated 5/3/2006 4:57:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, jjessen@rcn.com
writes:
However, the holes in the skin are so close together that any dimpling will
break through and make it a big hole. What to do?
John,
I did this when i was dimpling the VS skin, and it moved before i hit
the dimpler, and then noticed... ouch! I flattened out the wrong hole and
dimpled the correct hole, and placed a rivet. The extra adjacent hole is tiny
at one edge of the rivet, and will be filled before i paint. There are more
then enough other rivets to hold it together. In your case, i would NOT dimple
it or the hole gets bigger and you can not fit another rivet in that close to
the correct hole. This is not as critical as... say an engine mount bolt hole.
Keep on going.......
Steve
Message 10
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| Subject: | Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Deems, thanks. I think that the problem I'm staring at is that if I do
anything to either hole in the skin, the tiny amount of metal between the
two holes will break through. I might try John G's suggestion of a metal
epoxy, which I've never heard about before this. Van's said that one rivet
will not be missed, so I think as long as the holes are deburred, if I can
even do that, so they don't split, then I might epoxy the skin to the tab at
that point and hope it holds.
John J 328
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
John, put a doubler of the same (or slightly larger material behind the
correct hole (make it match the size of the double drilled tab) . match
drill it and then use a longer rivet when it comes time to rivet. you could
also consider all of the above and drill for a larger opps rivet.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole) |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Thanks, everyone, for helping out on the errant hole problem. I'm going to
take a picture of the skin holes and give you a look at that after I deburr
the best hole.
In the meantime, has anyone documented in a step-by-step procedure to back
rivet the Tailcone? I've visited a couple of web sites, but haven't found
one that basically holds one's hand through the process and documents the
"gotchas" along the way. I'll try to document the procedure on my web site,
unless it's been done elsewhere.
Again, thanks.
John Jessen
328 tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Deems, thanks. I think that the problem I'm staring at is that if I do
anything to either hole in the skin, the tiny amount of metal between the
two holes will break through. I might try John G's suggestion of a metal
epoxy, which I've never heard about before this. Van's said that one rivet
will not be missed, so I think as long as the holes are deburred, if I can
even do that, so they don't split, then I might epoxy the skin to the tab at
that point and hope it holds.
John J 328
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
John, put a doubler of the same (or slightly larger material behind the
correct hole (make it match the size of the double drilled tab) . match
drill it and then use a longer rivet when it comes time to rivet. you could
also consider all of the above and drill for a larger opps rivet.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Back riveting the tailcone |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
LET ME TRY TO EXPLAIN WITHOUT GOING OVERBOARD.
I did most of mine with a helper. Back rivetting most of everything. Most
of the bucking was done with a smaller heavy bar, but once the structure
starts getting some rigidity then multible rivets can be set with a long bar
like the one sold for doing the elevator, it is about 13 inches long.
One rivet at a time with every other hole clecoed at first helps to avoid
the mishap of the bucker holding the incorrect rivet and the setter
firing.....dent!
An order of commands helps also like bucker saying- ready, then setter
saying- ready, then bucker saying -Go. and then setter- firiing.
I turned the structure upside down and put mats down to protect my knees and
was inside the cone most of the time. Hearing protection a must.
The order follows the manual, but it gets a little more difficult with the
top skins. I did those from the outside, still back riveting, but I pulled
up the side of the top skin and then shot from the opposite side while my
partener was up on top standing on a milk crate.
At the very end some of the inner most rivets, like the longerons closest to
the H.S. get hard to access. Lay the cone on its Rt/Lf side and again come
in from underneath, meaning the hole in the side(THE FRONT TOP SKIN STAY
OFF) This will give you access while sanding up and bending to the inner
most guts of the project.
Watch out for hamstring cramps and lateral olbiques. Who knew that riveting
could be so good for stretching.
There are a couple of rivets which seem to require an dbl offset back rivet
set, you will realize what you need when you get there. I bought too long
of a back rivet offset for my 2X gun and it didn't work too well. I think
this one was made for a 3X gun, the mass of the gun inners and the set
didn't correlate well together.
Really explain the priciples to your helper..don't assume anything. Make
sure the gun stops before they remove the bar. It took a lot of work to get
this far on the structure. Explanations are good.
Hope this helps
John G. 409
Building is stopping as the thermals are upon us and my 60 feet of wing is
longing to be bent.
If it were not for us sailplaners, I'd tell Tim Olson to fly under the cloud
streets and throttle back on his way out to San Diego. He could save a lot
of fuel, but his occupants may not enjoy it so much...also look out for us
below cloud base. We do not fly at set altitudes based on direction.
Tim, In my opinion, I would perhaps think about a more northern route,
prettier and cooler. Sailplanes fly cross country by using alternates
landout spots, we need to be able to glide to our next alternate before we
fly on. In the Rv 10 un populated roads will work for landing sites but
look for them on you charts, road maps, satellite images and topo maps.
It is a great time of year. Cheers!!
>From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole)
>Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:41:32 -0700
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>Thanks, everyone, for helping out on the errant hole problem. I'm going to
>take a picture of the skin holes and give you a look at that after I deburr
>the best hole.
>
>In the meantime, has anyone documented in a step-by-step procedure to back
>rivet the Tailcone? I've visited a couple of web sites, but haven't found
>one that basically holds one's hand through the process and documents the
>"gotchas" along the way. I'll try to document the procedure on my web
>site,
>unless it's been done elsewhere.
>
>Again, thanks.
>
>John Jessen
> 328 tailcone
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
>Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:49 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>Deems, thanks. I think that the problem I'm staring at is that if I do
>anything to either hole in the skin, the tiny amount of metal between the
>two holes will break through. I might try John G's suggestion of a metal
>epoxy, which I've never heard about before this. Van's said that one rivet
>will not be missed, so I think as long as the holes are deburred, if I can
>even do that, so they don't split, then I might epoxy the skin to the tab
>at
>that point and hope it holds.
>
>John J 328
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:19 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
>John, put a doubler of the same (or slightly larger material behind the
>correct hole (make it match the size of the double drilled tab) . match
>drill it and then use a longer rivet when it comes time to rivet. you could
>also consider all of the above and drill for a larger opps rivet.
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Fuse
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole) |
John,
There is no rocket science to building the TC. I back rivetted all the
bottom and side skins solo. Careful positioning of the back rivet plate
and judicious use of some wooden wedges to position the TC is all I
used. It obviously took much longer solo than with a partner - but it
can be done. I only used a partner to help with the top skin and I am
delighted with the way the whole thing came out.
The only gotchas I can think of:
a. some rivets will require an offset back rivet set as John G. has
pointed out.
b. check that the bulkhead flanges lay flat against the skin - back
riveting helps this automatically (if you use the spring/collar back
rivet set). Otherwise use the eraser trick I posted the other day to
snug the flange to the skin
c. it is possible to backrivet those rivets that sit under the J
Channel. I used a hardware store hex head bolt with the head polished
and part of the bolt shaft ground out. With the rivet backed on the
plate, hit the bolt firmly with a solid hammer a few times for a perfect
rivet. Picture attached.
good luck
Ron
#187 fuse - about to start the lid.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Thursday, 4 May 2006 10:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole)
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Thanks, everyone, for helping out on the errant hole problem. I'm going
to
take a picture of the skin holes and give you a look at that after I
deburr
the best hole.
In the meantime, has anyone documented in a step-by-step procedure to
back
rivet the Tailcone? I've visited a couple of web sites, but haven't
found
one that basically holds one's hand through the process and documents
the
"gotchas" along the way. I'll try to document the procedure on my web
site,
unless it's been done elsewhere.
Again, thanks.
John Jessen
328 tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Deems, thanks. I think that the problem I'm staring at is that if I do
anything to either hole in the skin, the tiny amount of metal between
the
two holes will break through. I might try John G's suggestion of a
metal
epoxy, which I've never heard about before this. Van's said that one
rivet
will not be missed, so I think as long as the holes are deburred, if I
can
even do that, so they don't split, then I might epoxy the skin to the
tab at
that point and hope it holds.
John J 328
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
John, put a doubler of the same (or slightly larger material behind the
correct hole (make it match the size of the double drilled tab) . match
drill it and then use a longer rivet when it comes time to rivet. you
could
also consider all of the above and drill for a larger opps rivet.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Message 14
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| Subject: | Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole) |
What a great idea for driving those specific rivets! Innovation at its
best. Thanks, Ron and John G.
John Jessen
328 Tailcone
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole)
John,
There is no rocket science to building the TC. I back rivetted all the
bottom and side skins solo. Careful positioning of the back rivet plate and
judicious use of some wooden wedges to position the TC is all I used. It
obviously took much longer solo than with a partner - but it can be done. I
only used a partner to help with the top skin and I am delighted with the
way the whole thing came out.
The only gotchas I can think of:
a. some rivets will require an offset back rivet set as John G. has
pointed out.
b. check that the bulkhead flanges lay flat against the skin - back
riveting helps this automatically (if you use the spring/collar back rivet
set). Otherwise use the eraser trick I posted the other day to snug the
flange to the skin
c. it is possible to backrivet those rivets that sit under the J
Channel. I used a hardware store hex head bolt with the head polished and
part of the bolt shaft ground out. With the rivet backed on the plate, hit
the bolt firmly with a solid hammer a few times for a perfect rivet.
Picture attached.
good luck
Ron
#187 fuse - about to start the lid.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Thursday, 4 May 2006 10:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole)
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Thanks, everyone, for helping out on the errant hole problem. I'm going to
take a picture of the skin holes and give you a look at that after I deburr
the best hole.
In the meantime, has anyone documented in a step-by-step procedure to back
rivet the Tailcone? I've visited a couple of web sites, but haven't found
one that basically holds one's hand through the process and documents the
"gotchas" along the way. I'll try to document the procedure on my web site,
unless it's been done elsewhere.
Again, thanks.
John Jessen
328 tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Deems, thanks. I think that the problem I'm staring at is that if I do
anything to either hole in the skin, the tiny amount of metal between the
two holes will break through. I might try John G's suggestion of a metal
epoxy, which I've never heard about before this. Van's said that one rivet
will not be missed, so I think as long as the holes are deburred, if I can
even do that, so they don't split, then I might epoxy the skin to the tab at
that point and hope it holds.
John J 328
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
John, put a doubler of the same (or slightly larger material behind the
correct hole (make it match the size of the double drilled tab) . match
drill it and then use a longer rivet when it comes time to rivet. you could
also consider all of the above and drill for a larger opps rivet.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
Wiki!
HREF="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
support!
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Back riveting the tailcone |
We solved the bucking problem by building a stack of metal 2" wide x 14" long and
tall enough to clear the clecos. We sat this on the bench and slide it from
front to back as we back-riveted the stiffeners. We could do 10 to 15 rivets
at a time. This worked well for the bottom and both sides.
Once these were done and the top sheets were clecoed on, we sat the tailcone on
end. We raised it about 2' off the floor. Once it was secure one of us crawled
inside to buck the rivets, wearing hearing protection. This worked well as there
was no physical straining or worry about damaging the skins, frames and stiffeners.
Doing the round corners was the hardest. It took patiences and practice for us
to get some decent shop heads.
Edward Hershberger
#40430 (Wings)
> >From: "John Jessen"
> >To:
> >Subject: RV10-List: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole)
> >Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 17:41:32 -0700
> >
> >--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen"
> >
> >Thanks, everyone, for helping out on the errant hole problem. I'm going to
> >take a picture of the skin holes and give you a look at that after I deburr
> >the best hole.
> >
> >In the meantime, has anyone documented in a step-by-step procedure to back
> >rivet the Tailcone? I've visited a couple of web sites, but haven't found
> >one that basically holds one's hand through the process and documents the
> >"gotchas" along the way. I'll try to document the procedure on my web
> >site,
> >unless it's been done elsewhere.
> >
> >Again, thanks.
> >
> >John Jessen
> > 328 tailcone
> >
============================================================
<html><body>
<DIV>We solved the bucking problem by building a stack of metal 2" wide x 14" long
and tall enough to clear the clecos. We sat this on the bench and slide it
from front to back as we back-riveted the stiffeners. We could do 10 to
15 rivets at a time. This worked well for the bottom and both sides. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Once these were done and the top sheets were clecoed on, we sat the tailcone
on end. We raised it about 2' off the floor. Once it was secure one of us crawled
inside to buck the rivets, wearing hearing protection. This worked well
as there was no physical straining or worry about damaging the skins, frames
and stiffeners.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Doing the round corners was the hardest. It took patiences and practice
for us to get some decent shop heads.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Edward Hershberger</DIV>
<DIV>#40430 (Wings) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
one el
, List
Message 16
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| Subject: | Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole) |
Some of the innovation ($time$) may have been used elsewhere. Unless my
backrivet set is directly on the rivet, the rivet will slide to one side of
the nylon insert and only set half the diameter of the rivet, which looks
kinda weird! I just began using my non-swivel mushroom set for my back
riveting. With the larger surface area it's not really any harder to keep
the set on the rivet, and it fits wonderfully under J channels.
Rob
#392
Priming bare steel parts on QB Fuse/Wings
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:12 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole)
What a great idea for driving those specific rivets! Innovation at its
best. Thanks, Ron and John G.
John Jessen
328 Tailcone
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole)
John,
There is no rocket science to building the TC. I back rivetted all the
bottom and side skins solo. Careful positioning of the back rivet plate and
judicious use of some wooden wedges to position the TC is all I used. It
obviously took much longer solo than with a partner - but it can be done. I
only used a partner to help with the top skin and I am delighted with the
way the whole thing came out.
The only gotchas I can think of:
a. some rivets will require an offset back rivet set as John G. has
pointed out.
b. check that the bulkhead flanges lay flat against the skin - back
riveting helps this automatically (if you use the spring/collar back rivet
set). Otherwise use the eraser trick I posted the other day to snug the
flange to the skin
c. it is possible to backrivet those rivets that sit under the J
Channel. I used a hardware store hex head bolt with the head polished and
part of the bolt shaft ground out. With the rivet backed on the plate, hit
the bolt firmly with a solid hammer a few times for a perfect rivet.
Picture attached.
good luck
Ron
#187 fuse - about to start the lid.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Thursday, 4 May 2006 10:12 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Back riveting the tailcone (was Errant hole)
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Thanks, everyone, for helping out on the errant hole problem. I'm going to
take a picture of the skin holes and give you a look at that after I deburr
the best hole.
In the meantime, has anyone documented in a step-by-step procedure to back
rivet the Tailcone? I've visited a couple of web sites, but haven't found
one that basically holds one's hand through the process and documents the
"gotchas" along the way. I'll try to document the procedure on my web site,
unless it's been done elsewhere.
Again, thanks.
John Jessen
328 tailcone
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Deems, thanks. I think that the problem I'm staring at is that if I do
anything to either hole in the skin, the tiny amount of metal between the
two holes will break through. I might try John G's suggestion of a metal
epoxy, which I've never heard about before this. Van's said that one rivet
will not be missed, so I think as long as the holes are deburred, if I can
even do that, so they don't split, then I might epoxy the skin to the tab at
that point and hope it holds.
John J 328
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
John, put a doubler of the same (or slightly larger material behind the
correct hole (make it match the size of the double drilled tab) . match
drill it and then use a longer rivet when it comes time to rivet. you could
also consider all of the above and drill for a larger opps rivet.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
< ;
>HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List
Wiki!
< ;
>HREF="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
support!
HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contri
bution
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Errant hole in top skin of Tailcone |
Ok. The holes are now no longer two. They joined as I thought they would
as soon as I tried to deburr the original. Here's a picture. Any further
advice?
John Jessen
328 Tailcone.
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