---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/24/06: 30 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:32 AM - Re: Brake master cylinders (Belue, Kevin) 2. 06:25 AM - RV-10 Tow Bar (JSMcGrew@AOL.COM) 3. 06:26 AM - Re: Retractable (David Maib) 4. 06:36 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 5. 06:53 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (JSMcGrew@AOL.COM) 6. 07:00 AM - Horizontal Stabilizer Riveting (Bruce Case) 7. 07:04 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (linn Walters) 8. 07:07 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (Doerr, Ray R [NTK]) 9. 07:27 AM - Mangled messages? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 10. 07:27 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (Doerr, Ray R [NTK]) 11. 07:29 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (pilotdds@aol.com) 12. 07:30 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (pilotdds@aol.com) 13. 07:36 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (Tim Olson) 14. 07:52 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (Mark Ritter) 15. 08:01 AM - Re: RV10-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 05/23/06 (Bill Gates) 16. 09:15 AM - Re: RV-10 Tow Bar (Rob Kermanj) 17. 09:29 AM - Re: Mangled messages? () 18. 09:31 AM - Re: Mangled messages? (James Hein) 19. 09:37 AM - Re: Mangled messages? (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 20. 09:53 AM - Re: Mangled messages? (Phillips, Jack) 21. 09:56 AM - Re: Mangled messages? (Matt Dralle) 22. 10:10 AM - Re: Mangled messages? (Rick) 23. 11:37 AM - Re: Retractable (Jesse Saint) 24. 12:26 PM - Re: Retractable (Tim Olson) 25. 01:38 PM - Re: Retractable (RobHickman@aol.com) 26. 02:27 PM - Re: Retractable (Bruce Case) 27. 05:13 PM - Re: Horizontal Stabilizer Riveting (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com) 28. 05:53 PM - Re: N519RV (40250) just received it's airworthiness today. (Michael Lefever) 29. 07:13 PM - avionics panel offer (GenGrumpy@aol.com) 30. 08:28 PM - Re: Retractable (John Lenhardt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:11 AM PST US From: "Belue, Kevin" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders When I finished my RV-6A, I noticed a lot of times that it was harder to push it in the hangar than it should be. One day when it was fairly hard to move, I pulled back on the tops of the brake pedals and then it moved much easier. After more experimentation, I found that a lot of times the master cylinders were not returning completing, causing the brakes to drag. I took the canopy release spring that I didn't use when building the plane and cut it in half, stretched it some, and put one on the shaft outside of each master cylinder. That fixed the brake dragging and it has been easy to move since then. I've made this modification to other RVs with similar results. I'm not flying my RV-10 yet so I haven't tried it there, but the brakes are essentially the same as the RV-6A, so I would expect similar results. Kevin D. Belue RV-6A flying RV-10 canopy top _____ From: Jack Sargeant [mailto:k5wiv@amsat.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:20 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders All disc brakes depend on the minute wobble in the rotors to push the pucks back when released. I've never seen any with return springs, and I don't think that springs on the master cylinders would help either. Jack & Cecilia Sargeant 1127 Patricia St. Wichita, KS 67208-2642 316/682-5268 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:30 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders In a message dated 5/23/2006 1:51:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, pilotdds @aol.com writes: The brakes on my C-170 are the same, they don' t spring open, and will touch ever so slightly against the disks..... but in the air, the wheels are not turning! As the pads wear, the contact of ten lightens up when the brakes are NOT applied. Not a major issue. Steve Stephen G. Blank,DDS RV-10 #40499 &n bsp; Finishing the HS Cessna 170b Flyer Port St Lucie, FL 772-475-5556 cell

When I finished my RV-6A, I noticed a lot of times that it was harder to push it in the hangar than it should be. One day when it was fairly hard to move, I pulled back on the tops of the brake pedals and then it moved much easier. After more experimentation, I found that a lot of times the master cylinders were not returning completing, causing the brakes to drag. I took the canopy release spring that I didn't use when building the plane and cut it in half, stretched it some, and put one on the shaft outside of each master cylinder. That fixed the brake dragging and it has been easy to move since then. I've made this modification to other RVs with similar results. I'm not flying my RV-10 yet so I haven't tried it there, but the brakes are essentially the same as the RV-6A, so I would expect similar results.

 

Kevin D. Belue

RV-6A flying

RV-10 canopy top

 

 

From: Jack Sargeant [mailto:k5wiv@amsat.org]
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 8:20 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders

 

All disc brakes depend on the minute wobble in the rotors to push the pucks back when released.  I've never seen any with return springs, and I don't think that springs on the master cylinders would help either.

 

Jack & Cecilia Sargeant
1127 Patricia St.
Wichita, KS 67208-2642
316/682-5268

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:30 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders

In a message dated 5/23/2006 1:51:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, pilotdds @aol.com writes:

     The brakes on my C-170 are the same, they don' t spring open, and will touch ever so slightly against the disks..... but in the air, the wheels are not turning!  As the pads wear, the contact of ten lightens up when the brakes are NOT applied.  Not a major issue.

 

Steve

 

Stephen G. Blank,DDS
RV-10 #40499      &n bsp;  Finishing the HS
Cessna 170b Flyer

Port St Lucie, FL
772-475-5556 cell

________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:54 AM PST US From: JSMcGrew@AOL.COM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone can point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. Does anyone have a specific part number of one that works? The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT work. I'm sending it back and going to try again... -Jim McGrew 40134 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:57 AM PST US From: David Maib Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib I really agree with Tim Olson on this one. Having owned a used Bonanza for a few years, I am really looking forward to annual inspections with no retractable gear worries. Expensive, heavy, complex, and you always have a moment of "will it, or won't it come down" when you lower the gear for landing. Don't get me wrong, the Bonanza is an awesome airplane, but less complexity and similar performance are very attractive to me now. The building experience is icing on the cake. David Maib do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work fine. For some reason Spruce doesn't list it though http://www.bogert-av.com/bogi-bars.php model #4-RV10; $84 Bob #40105 _____ My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that works? The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... -Jim McGrew 40134 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:08 AM PST US From: JSMcGrew@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar Thank you! Do not archive In a message dated 5/24/2006 7:39:52 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, bob.condrey@baesystems.com writes: Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work fine. Fo r some reason Spruce doesn=99t list it though _http://www.bogert-av.com/ bogi-bars.php_ (http://www.bogert-av.com/bogi-bars.php) model #4-RV10; $84 Bob #40105 ____________________________________ My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne ha ve a specific part number of one that works? The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... -Jim McGrew 40134 Jim "Scooter" McGrew jsmcgrew@aol.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:51 AM PST US From: "Bruce Case" Subject: RV10-List: Horizontal Stabilizer Riveting When I cleco the horizontal stabilizer together with just the leading edge ribs and the plywood form blocks there is a lot of stress on the ribs to the point where the HS is somewhat distorted. Has anyone done anything additional before putting in the rivets on the leading edge ribs? I am concerned about the airfoil shape. I was thinking of pro-sealing the leading edge ribs in place with the the main spar clecoed in and then going back and riveting in the leading edge ribs after the pro-seal has dried and I can remove the main spar. Bruce Case #40446 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:14 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar JSMcGrew@aol.com wrote: > My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone > ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only > thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South > Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and > Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that > works? > > The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT > wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... > > -Jim McGrew > 40134 > If it were me (and I plan on being there!), I'd look at the ACS tow bar, and since you know WHY it won't work ..... modify it! C'mon now, you've built a whole airplane! How hard can it be to change a tow bar???? Linn do not archive. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:00 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" This is the one I use for my RV-9 and RV-10. Works great on both planes. It's from Aircraft Spruce. 4-RVA RVA Style with Nose Wheel 13-01811 $78.75 Thank You Ray Doerr CDNI Principal Engineer -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:27:44 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Mangled messages? From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Anyone else seeing problems with HTML emails coming from the Matronics list remailer? The HTML based list emails I have been getting have malformed URL links, blank emails, and missing sentences. It's all normal when you look at the forum site, but they are messed up in email. This is only happening to HTML emails. Sent samples to Matt yesterday but haven't heard anything, just want to know if other people are seeing this also. An example is the link below that is missing the "h" and has an extra quote at the end. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:35 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work fine. For some reason Spruce doesn't list it though http://www.bogert-av.com/ bogi-bars.php model #4-RV10; $84 Bob #40105 ________________________________ My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that works? The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... -Jim McGrew 40134 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:44 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" This is the one I use for my RV-9 and RV-10. Works great on both planes. It's from Aircraft Spruce part # 13-01811 (RVA Style with Nose Wheel) Thank You Ray Doerr -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:49 AM PST US From: pilotdds@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar I have been using a tow bar from a c-210.Works great -----Original Message----- From: JSMcGrew@aol.com Sent: Wed, 24 May 2006 09:24:02 EDT Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that works? The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... -Jim McGrew 40134 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:15 AM PST US From: pilotdds@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar I will get part number this weekend. -----Original Message----- From: JSMcGrew@aol.com Sent: Wed, 24 May 2006 09:24:02 EDT Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that works? The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... -Jim McGrew 40134 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:40 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Here's some new Towbar comments: (Old) The RVA towbar from Aircraft Spruce does indeed work fine on the RV-10. I have one. When you first buy it, you can use it on the 10 nosewheel on the axle area. After you add wheel fairings, you'll cut 3/4" off the towbar pinchers and use it on some other capscrews. But, it works just fine. I see they now offer an RV-10 version, but I'm sure there's not a lot different...it's probably just pre-cut. You should ask them. (New) In search of a nice rudder gust lock, I created one that works really well. I spoke with Bogerts about it to see if they'd be interested in making it a product of theirs that would save builders having to build one. The RV-10 does definitely need a rudder gust lock. This progressed into a bit larger project, where we are trying to come up with a Towbar/Gust-Lock that will do everything you would ever want...it would be a towbar, and with a couple of attachments it would also serve as a rudder, AND aileron/elevator gust lock. I don't have a timeline for when you could see a finished product. I do have some photos of my rudder gust-lock only that I made. It works really great, but means I have to have 2 things hauled in the tail on long trips. More to come... Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote: > Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work fine. > For some reason Spruce doesnt list it though > > http://www.bogert-av.com/ bogi-bars.php > > > model #4-RV10; $84 > Bob #40105 > > > My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone ca > n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing > mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa > and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. > Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that works? > > The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT wo > rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... > > -Jim McGrew > > 40134 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:38 AM PST US From: "Mark Ritter" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar --- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found --- A message with no text/plain MIME section was received. The entire body of the message was removed. Please resend the email using Plain Text formatting. HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section in their client's default configuration. If you're using HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text". --- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found --- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:26 AM PST US From: Bill Gates Subject: RV10-List: Re: RV10-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 05/23/06 Just some musings from a recent IFR Student perspective: Instrument Flying....4th Edition....Richard Taylor "Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, familiarize himself with ALL AVAILABLE INFORMATION concerning that flight." FAR 91.103 As far as the legal side goes: "...THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR BLUNDERING INTO A THUNDERSTORM." "...IFR pilots cannot depend on ATC for weather information" ATC radar is designed for aircraft separation, not weather detection. Their first priority is aircraft separation, and issuance of radar safety advisories. Second priority is to provide other services that are required. Third priority is to provide additional services to the extent possible given the current workload. THE PILOT is responsible for the safe conclusion of the flight and NOT ATC. Calling Flight Watch on 122.0, listening to other Pilot Communications, listening to HIWAS VOR's for SIGMETS and hazardous weather would have all been available to this pilot to AVOID the near mid-air airframe break up described in the post. Recently, just near here in northeast Geogia, Scott Crossfield..first Mach 2 and 3 pilot...at age 85, died in just this same scenario when his P210 had the wings sheared off trying to use his on-board radar to penetrate a 'light spot' in a line of thunderstorms at night...and flew directly into severe Clear Air Turbulence...invisible on radar. His P210 turned into a large lawn dart penetrating the rocky ground and creating a smoking 4 foot deep hole without disturbing the tree foilage above! Chuck Yeager commented that Crossfield was always pushing the weather limits. So he WAS ONE OLD BOLD PILOT with the habit of trying to penetrate a line of thunderstorms that finally caught up with him. Since I am NO Crossfield, Yeager or even a very good IFR Pilot and pretty unlucky, I know that I am not going to double the cost of my 10 with onboard radar, strike finder, WX MFD Color Weather, and satellite isobar printouts ($120,000.00) because like Van told me at a RV Reunion in Aurora one day....the RV-10 was designed as a VFR family plane....and as Richard Taylor writes "There is ALWAYS a better way to get someplace in an airplane other than through a thunderstorm. The risk is never worth the price that might have to be paid." "Wise pilots AVOID threatening weather, there is no weather-turbulence detection equipment developed yet that can safely guide you through a squall line or a thinderstorm." Someone else once prayed: "Please Lord, don't let me look foolish on the NTSB report!" ....and you JUST KNOW that the FAA would have determined that had that flight in So Cal ended badly it would have been 'Pilot Error' in deciding to continue the flight into IMC that led to an 'airframe break-up in mid-air' and everyone's demise! ...guess whose insurance company would be liable and would they refuse to pay based on Pilot Error? As per the Retractable Gear discussion: I sure had my bubble burst, as I have been toying with all of these ideas since seeing a homebuilt retractable at a RV Fly-In once. But I did think of a few more additions to all the great ideas above: 'a gear-up warning sound' when you power back for the approach and forgot to lower it and an emergency 'extendable gear lowering handle' between the seats, and a pullable fuse....so your CFII can simulate a 'gear down and lock failure' while you are on the glide slope while simulataneaously cutting the power to simulate a dead stick emergency landing.....don't ask me how I know they can do that! I did take the CIRRUS Transition Training Course in anticipation of flying the comparable RV-10 and I must admit that I really think a better expenditure than all that weather detection gear would be a Ballistic Parachute System for the 10. ....just my 2 cents.... Paul ----- Original Message ---- From: RV10-List Digest Server Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 2:57:44 AM Subject: RV10-List Digest: 40 Msgs - 05/23/06 * ================================================ Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================ Today's complete RV10-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the RV10-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list/Digest.RV10-List.2006-05-23.html Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv10-list/Digest.RV10-List.2006-05-23.txt ============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive ============================================== RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/23/06: 40 Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:23 AM - Retractable (Paul Walter) 2. 03:44 AM - New Service Letter for -10 (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 3. 03:44 AM - Re: Engine limts (Rob Kermanj) 4. 04:11 AM - Re: Retractable (Tim Olson) 5. 04:36 AM - Re: Retractable (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 6. 04:54 AM - Re: Retractable (GRANSCOTT@AOL.COM) 7. 05:53 AM - Re: Retractable (David McNeill) 8. 06:11 AM - Re: Retractable (Indran Chelvanayagam) 9. 06:40 AM - Re: Retractable (Tim Olson) 10. 06:56 AM - Re: Retractable (Deems Davis) 11. 07:13 AM - Re: Retractable (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 12. 07:47 AM - Re: Retractable (Chris W) 13. 09:05 AM - Re: Retractable (Indran Chelvanayagam) 14. 09:29 AM - Weather capabilities and severe turblance (Jon Reining) 15. 09:34 AM - Re: Re: Retractable () 16. 10:07 AM - Re: Re: Retractable (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 17. 10:32 AM - Re: Retractable (Tim Olson) 18. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: Retractable (John Jessen) 19. 10:49 AM - Brake master cylinders (pilotdds@aol.com) 20. 10:54 AM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turblance (John Jessen) 21. 11:00 AM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turblance (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 22. 11:04 AM - Re: Retractable (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 23. 11:17 AM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 24. 11:23 AM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turblance (Dj Merrill) 25. 11:27 AM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence (Albert Gardner) 26. 11:39 AM - Re: Retractable (Mark Grieve) 27. 11:44 AM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 28. 11:49 AM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turblance (Deems Davis) 29. 12:09 PM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence (Tim Dawson-Townsend) 30. 12:38 PM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turblance (Tim Olson) 31. 12:40 PM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turblance (Tim Olson) 32. 12:47 PM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turblance (David McNeill) 33. 01:00 PM - Re: Weather capabilities and severe turblance - pilot account (Eric Panning) 34. 01:36 PM - Re: Brake master cylinders (linn Walters) 35. 02:00 PM - Re: Brake master cylinders (Chris , Susie Darcy) 36. 02:10 PM - Re: Re: Retractable () 37. 02:11 PM - test (Chris , Susie Darcy) 38. 02:30 PM - Re: Brake master cylinders (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com) 39. 03:01 PM - Re: Retractable (Kelly McMullen) 40. 06:24 PM - Re: Brake master cylinders (Jack Sargeant) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:07 AM PST US From: "Paul Walter" Subject: RV10-List: Retractable In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to adapt a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure how far into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he should be able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any thoughts ?. As for me I'll just keep working on the empenage. Paul Walter ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:44 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: New Service Letter for -10 From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Any one notice this? http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/rv10_spur_gear.pdf Not really a SL, just another oops/fyi. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive Recent RV-10 Build Activity ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:44 AM PST US From: "Rob Kermanj" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine limts --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" Thank you Robert. This will do fine. Do not archive. On 5/23/06, Robert G. Wright wrote: > > > From http://rvimg.com/tcds/ lycoming-io-540.pdf: > > > Oil:------------ - --------------------Maximum -----Minimum > > Normal operation ---------------------95 p.s.i. ---55 p.s.i. > > Idling ------------------------- --------# ---------25 p.s.i. > > Starting, warm-up, Taxi and Take off: 115 p.s.i. -----# > > "#" indicates does not apply > > > IO-540-D4A5--- p.s.i. at inlet to fuel injector ----Max. Injector > > ----------- Maximum ---Minimum --Minimum Idle----- -in Idle cutoff > > > ------------- 45 ---------14 ---------12 ----------------55 > > > II. MODELS: IO-540- > > IO-540 > > -D4A5, > > > - > > -D4B5, > > > - > > -D4C5, > > -N1A5, > > > - > > -R1A5, > > > - > > -D4A5 > > > - > > - > > AEIO-540- > > > - > > -D4A5, > > > - > > -D4B5, > > > - > > -D4C5 > > > - > > -D4D5 > > > Type > > - - > > > Rating > > 260-2700 > > > Takeoff and maximum continuous > > > hp., rpm, full throttle at: > > > sea level pressure altitude > > > NOTE 1. Temperature Limits (Maximum permissible): > > Cylinder head (well type thermocouple) 500F > > Cylinder base 325F Cylinder base temperature limits are not applicable to > engine models which > > incorporate internal piston cooling oil jets. > > Oil inlet 245F > > > NOTE 9. For all models - ignition and center of gravity: > > > C.G. location (dry with starter and generator installed) > > > Models > > ------------------ Ignition, dual* + > > From front face of > > propeller mounting > > flange (in.) > > Off prop. shaft C.L. (in.) > > Vertical----------- -Lateral > > > IO-540 > > > -D4A5 > > TCM S6LN-200, S6LN-204 > > -------------------- ----- 18.16 > > 1.15 below > > 0.21 left > > > I couldn't find a good source for a parallel valve engine, but Lycoming > shows that for a K series (300 HP) motor, oil temps should be between 165F > and 220F, whatever the Celsius equivalent is. > > > Hopefully that will get you started. > > > Rob Wright > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > Rob Kermanj > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 5:35 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Engine limts > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" > > > Good catch Robert!- I want the recommended D4A5 data.- I really appreciate > it. > > > Do not archive. > > > On 5/21/06, Robert G. Wright wrote: > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" > > > > > > > Before I go digging, want to make sure you want the A4D5, not the > > > recommended D4A5. > > > > > > Rob Wright > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf > Of Rob Kermanj > > > Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:37 PM > > > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: RV10-List: Engine limts > > > > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" > > > > > > I wonder if someone could send me the engine operating limits (RPM, > > > Oil Press, Temp, etc.) for for an IO540 A4D5?- Thanks. > > > > > > Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > - > > - > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:46 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Thoughts as requested... Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Paul Walter wrote: > In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to adapt > a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure how far > into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he should be > able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any thoughts ?. As > for me I'll just keep working on the empenage. > > Paul Walter ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Retractable From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" If retractable gear is so great, how come all Cirrus airplanes and all Columbias (no slouches in performance) are fixed gear? TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson Sent: Tue 5/23/2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Thoughts as requested... Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Paul Walter wrote: > In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to adapt > a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure how far > into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he should be > able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any thoughts ?. As > for me I'll just keep working on the empenage. > > Paul Walter ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:54:55 AM PST US From: GRANSCOTT@AOL.COM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable In a message dated 5/23/06 7:14:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Tim@MyRV10.com writes: If someone wants a retract, Tim, If one wanted to do this in the US, I think one might want to touch base with an insurance agent to get an idea how much a jury rigged undercarriage would increase your insurance cost...bet it would come close to doubling or more rate increase over your normal rate with fixed gear. Certainly the Bo, Commander, Mooney are good choices in single fan retract GA area but if one wants a retract kit rather than jury rig an RV, it seems to make more sense to buy a retract experimental with some experience...Lance, (Wheeler) Express or the Raven kit. The Raven while a home built is based on a former production aircraft (Piper Comanche); so it has some similarity to a production product, this may or may not make any difference in your rates, though. Patrick do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:59 AM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" Having owned a Cardinal RG for 28 years and 2500 hours I agree with Tim. Never landed gear up but did have several XCs home with the gear left down so maintenance could be done at home. Retractable gear benefits are a wash for the increased maintenance and insurance costs and my gear version was the final engineering level for the aircraft. A far more beneficial (again with tradeoffs) was the turbonormalization. Fortunately the 10 is so over powered by FAR standards that it will not be needed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:34 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Retractable If retractable gear is so great, how come all Cirrus airplanes and all Columbias (no slouches in performance) are fixed gear? TDT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tim Olson Sent: Tue 5/23/2006 7:10 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Thoughts as requested... Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Paul Walter wrote: > In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to adapt > a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure how far > into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he should be > able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any thoughts ?. As > for me I'll just keep working on the empenage. > > Paul Walter ======================================== ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:34 AM PST US From: "Indran Chelvanayagam" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Retractable Paul, do you have the website of the alleged Western Australian RV-10 RG builder? I'm only aware of 5 kits (with one flying) in this state. Indran Chelvanayagam _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Walter Sent: Tuesday, 23 May 2006 3:22 PM Subject: RV10-List: Retractable ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:17 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Yeah, I didn't even mention the insurance, but it's significant. When the rates got jacked up about 6 years ago, I remember retracts were an extreme amount higher than fixed gear. My guess is you'd be facing at least $2000-3000/year more in our market if it was retractable. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive GRANSCOTT@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/23/06 7:14:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > Tim@MyRV10.com writes: > > < FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=Arial > color=#000000 size =2>If someone wants a retract, > > Tim, > > If one wanted to do this in the US, I think one might want to touch base > with an insurance agent to get an idea how much a jury rigge d > undercarriage would increase your insurance cost...bet it would come > close t o doubling or more rate increase over your normal rate with > fixed gear. > > Certainly the Bo, Commander, Mooney are good choices in single > fan retract GA area but if one wants a retract kit rather than jury rig > an RV, it seems to make more sense to buy a retract experimental with > some experience...Lance, (Wheeler) Express or the Raven kit. The Raven > while a home built is based on a former production aircraft (Piper > Comanche) ; so it has some similarity to a production product, this may > or may not make any difference in your rates, though. > > Patrick > > do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:12 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis I'm suspicious of this rumor. The Lancair IV landing gear is a huge box structure that would not fit into the RV10 fuse (unless you built on an additional drag producing box-like structure on the bottom of the fuse to house it (what's the point?) The 360/Legend gear would require being mounted into the wing structure with several ribs removed/reengineered. Then there's the mater of the nose gear, where would you stow it? Not to mention the significant change that this would produce in the locations of the wheels and the rotation moments for landing/takeoff and the almost total rework of the engine mount, exhaust, and induction. There are better solutions for an RG than the -10. Deems Davis # 406 Fuse http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Retractable From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Taildragger retract . . . TDT Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:53 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis I'm suspicious of this rumor. The Lancair IV landing gear is a huge box structure that would not fit into the RV10 fuse (unless you built on an additional drag producing box-like structure on the bottom of the fuse to house it (what's the point?) The 360/Legend gear would require being mounted into the wing structure with several ribs removed/reengineered. Then there's the mater of the nose gear, where would you stow it? Not to mention the significant change that this would produce in the locations of the wheels and the rotation moments for landing/takeoff and the almost total rework of the engine mount, exhaust, and induction. There are better solutions for an RG than the -10. Deems Davis # 406 Fuse http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:10 AM PST US From: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net> It's my understanding that in a 200 mph airplane, if you can do retracts with out adding too much weight, the best you are going to see is 15 knots. From what I have heard, you are very lucky to get that. It seems until you have a plane that files closer to 300 mph, retracts aren't worth the trouble. -- Chris W KE5GIX Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want One stop wish list for any gift, from anywhere, for any occasion! http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:52 AM PST US From: "Indran Chelvanayagam" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: "Indran Chelvanayagam" Paul - any chance of pointing us to the website you mentioned? As far as I'm aware, there are only 5 RV10 kits (one flying) in Western Australia. Would be good to contact another builder, especially if he's making serious mods. Might also be able to post some photos on the list! Indran Chelvanayagam Paul Walter wrote: > In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to > adapt a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure > how far into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he > should be able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any > thoughts ?. As for me I'll just keep working on the empenage. > > Paul Walter ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:08 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance From: "Jon Reining" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather capabilities of his radar were down. In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on the Chelton? Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36025#36025 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:47 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Van was asked the same question at Oshkosh. His comment was to put a gear handle on the panel with some lights. Move the handle and the lights indicate gear position. You can't see them anyway, just pretend they are up (or down). Jim Combs Do Not Archive ======================================================== From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Thoughts as requested... Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane. But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Retractable From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" That's brilliant! Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the audio system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the rush of disturbed air . . . TDT Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim@combsfive.com Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Van was asked the same question at Oshkosh. His comment was to put a gear handle on the panel with some lights. Move the handle and the lights indicate gear position. You can't see them anyway, just pretend they are up (or down). Jim Combs Do Not Archive ======================================================= From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Thoughts as requested... Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane. But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:01 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson If you can add engine noises, it could be something you sell to current non-flying builders. They they won't wear out their lips making the engine noises themselves when they sit in their half-built planes. Then, add a small vibrator from an old reclining chair... Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > > > That's brilliant! Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the > audio system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the > rush of disturbed air . . . > > TDT > Do not archive > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jim@combsfive.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:34 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > Van was asked the same question at Oshkosh. His comment was to put a > gear handle on the panel with some lights. Move the handle and the > lights indicate gear position. You can't see them anyway, just pretend > they are up (or down). > > Jim Combs > > Do Not Archive > > > ====================================================== > From: Tim Olson > Date: 2006/05/23 Tue AM 07:10:59 EDT > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Thoughts as requested... > Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time > over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and > building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or > both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that > you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance > hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you > MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... > not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. > > I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If > someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a > retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, > which would be an awesome plane. But, isn't that the beauty of > homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense > for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's > still fine to do it. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:24 AM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" Tim, could you also add an intermittent, random failure of one of the indicator lights, just for yucks! Would appreciate it. I miss suspense of seeing 3-green. John J do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:05 AM Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" --> That's brilliant! Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the audio system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the rush of disturbed air . . . TDT Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim@combsfive.com Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Van was asked the same question at Oshkosh. His comment was to put a gear handle on the panel with some lights. Move the handle and the lights indicate gear position. You can't see them anyway, just pretend they are up (or down). Jim Combs Do Not Archive ====================================================== From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Thoughts as requested... Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane. But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:45 AM PST US From: pilotdds@aol.com Subject: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders Is anyone willing to comment on the master cylinders.It seems there should be some sort of external return spring around the actuating shafts.I notice some dragging when towing. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:53 AM PST US From: "John Jessen" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" My oh my oh my! Thank you for sharing this and thank goodness you got down and safely so. I, too, am ready to spend whatever big bucks is required for at least XM weather and some form of traffic / terrain. Am going to be very interested in this thread. John J do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Reining Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" --> I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather capabilities of his radar were down. In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on the Chelton? Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36025#36025 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:36 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service like XM, and also/or a Stormscope. Remember that datalinked weather isn't real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give you good trend and near real time weather. Stormscopes on the other hand will show you current lightning which is almost always hand in hand with severe convective activity. I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS but it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment to make sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Reining Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" --> I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather capabilities of his radar were down. In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on the Chelton? Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36025#36025 ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ====================== ======= ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Retractable From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." --> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." But for the retract, you would have to have the bass box to simulate the thump from the door going up and closing! Dan Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:31 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson If you can add engine noises, it could be something you sell to current non-flying builders. They they won't wear out their lips making the engine noises themselves when they sit in their half-built planes. Then, add a small vibrator from an old reclining chair... Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > > > That's brilliant! Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the > audio system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the > rush of disturbed air . . . > > TDT > Do not archive > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jim@combsfive.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:34 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > Van was asked the same question at Oshkosh. His comment was to put a > gear handle on the panel with some lights. Move the handle and the > lights indicate gear position. You can't see them anyway, just pretend > they are up (or down). > > Jim Combs > > Do Not Archive > > > ===================================================== > From: Tim Olson > Date: 2006/05/23 Tue AM 07:10:59 EDT > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Thoughts as requested... > Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time > over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and > building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or > both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that > you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance > hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you > MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... > not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. > > I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If > someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a > retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, > which would be an awesome plane. But, isn't that the beauty of > homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense > for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's > still fine to do it. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:11 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Y'all didn't hear it from me, but look for a new lightning/convective activity sensor better than the 1980's-technology WX-500 coming fairly soon to a dealer near you . . . TDT 40025 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS but it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment to make sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li st-server@matronics.com ] On Behalf Of Jon Reining Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" --> I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather capabilities of his radar were down. In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on the Chelton? Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) Read this topic online here: http:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p6025#36025 http://www.matronic ======== & Matronics Email List ; & --> http://www.matronics.com/c ==============BR> ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance From: Dj Merrill --> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill > > > In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the > capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. > In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, > what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather > dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get > weather > You may consider looking into ADS-B. It does not cover all of the US yet, but it will over the next several years. Up front equipment costs, but no monthly or other subscription fees for traffic and weather information. The equipment is really expensive right now, but I hope it comes down by the time I need to buy to install. http://www.adsb.gov/ http://www.ads-b.com/ -Dj ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:07 AM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence --> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" Although I learned to fly in Idaho where there was weather as well as high terrain now almost all my flying is in the Southwest except for occasional trips North. A trip from Reno to Yuma last Wed. afternoon (trying to get home before the Presidential TFR Thursday) had me dodging much weather. My Anywhere Map with XM weather worked very well. You can select various weather displays but Nexrad, TAFS, and winds aloft are very useful in flight. One very nice feature of ControlVisions's Anywhere Map is that the cost of monthly updates is much less than most others and it does a good job of driving my Navaid. The display is small but I mounted it on the side instead of on the panel. For about $2K it's more than adequate for VFR flying. Albert Gardner 40-422 Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:31 AM PST US From: Mark Grieve Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Mark Grieve I helped Van attach the wings to his sailplane one day and observed a gear light on the dash. I asked if the flight engineer was supposed to report "One Green" during the landing checklist. Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > > > That's brilliant! Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the > audio system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the > rush of disturbed air . . . > > TDT > Do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > jim@combsfive.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:34 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > Van was asked the same question at Oshkosh. His comment was to put a > gear handle on the panel with some lights. Move the handle and the > lights indicate gear position. You can't see them anyway, just pretend > they are up (or down). > > Jim Combs > > Do Not Archive > > > ====================================================== > From: Tim Olson > Date: 2006/05/23 Tue AM 07:10:59 EDT > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Thoughts as requested... > Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time > over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and > building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or > both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that > you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance > hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you > MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... > not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. > > I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If > someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a > retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, > which would be an awesome plane. But, isn't that the beauty of > homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense > for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's > still fine to do it. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" (read in your best infomercial voice) And what would be the approximate cost of such a wonderful new technology? Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive Recent RV-10 Build Activity ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:17 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence Y'all didn't hear it from me, but look for a new lightning/convective activity sensor better than the 1980's-technology WX-500 coming fairly soon to a dealer near you . . . TDT 40025 ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:00 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service like XM, and also/or a Stormscope.? Remember that datalinked weather isn't real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give you good trend and near real time weather.? Stormscopes on the other hand will show you current lightning which is almost always hand in hand with severe convective activity. I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS but it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment to make sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Reining Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" --> I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather capabilities of his radar were down. In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on the Chelton? Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) Read this topic online here: http:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p6025#36025 http://www.matronic ===nbsp; & nbsp; & Matronics Email List ; & amp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c =====R> ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:19 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis I flew with a Strikefinder in my B55 Baron's and they were VERY effective in identifying thunderstorms, and much less expensive. I also had onboard radar on one of them, and I preferred the Strikefinder data, (The radar is sometimes dificult to interpret if you don't fly it regularly (my case). Deems Davis # 406 Fuse http://deemsrv10.com/ RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to > avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service > like XM, and also/or a Stormscope. Remember that datalinked weather > isn't real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give > you good trend and near real time weather. Stormscopes on the other > hand will show you current lightning which is almost always hand in > hand with severe convective activity. > > I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS > but it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment > to make sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all. > > > Michael Sausen > RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage > Do Not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li > st-server@matronics.com ] > On Behalf Of Jon Reining > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:28 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" > --> > > I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in > his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on > the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's > is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt > strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. > > On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our > weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay > Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how > it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the > hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't > look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, > received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in > IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a > thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of > control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees > to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our > maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude > and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a full two > minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to > the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! > great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it > was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a > great job getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one > that I hope to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced > that the weather capabilities of his radar were down. > > In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the > capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. > In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, > what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather > dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get > weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no > lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have > detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? > Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can > definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic > vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on > the Chelton? > > Jon Reining > 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just > showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p6025#36025 > > > > *http://www.matronic ======================== & Matronics > Email List ; & --> > http://www.matronics.com/c > ===================================== > > > * > > > * * > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:55 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence From: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" Heh, heh. That's not my department . . . but I think it will be priced relatively aggressively for market penetration . . . TDT ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen) Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 2:44 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turbulence From: Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jon Reining Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:28 AM Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" --> I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather capabilities of his radar were down. In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on the Chelton? Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) Read this topic online here: http:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p6025#36025 http://www.matronic =nbsp; & nbsp; & Matronics Email List ; & amp; amp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c ==> ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:00 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Jon, That's quite a story! Glad it all ended well for you. You should feel comforted.... With the Chelton system, you can currently get WSI, but I'm guessing a bit later this year you'd be able to get XM. Both are satellite based systems that have no ties to ATC. WSI weather is actually what FSS uses themselves, from what I've been told. With various packages, you can have TFR's, lightning strikes, Nexrad, and all the goodies you're looking for, and they are very nicely used on the Chelton, because they'll automatically overlay many functions right on your main map page, or you can get a larger picture on a zoom and pan-able page. So I think you'll be very pleased. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Jon Reining wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" > > > I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in > his Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on > the beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's > is just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' > dirt strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. > > On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our > weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay > Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how > it looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the > hills, called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't > look all too bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, > received our pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in > IMC, no big deal, pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a > thunderstorm and encountered severe turblance and very near loss of > control of the airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees > to the right, then quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our > maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at one point. Our > attitude and altitude were all over the place. This lasted for a > full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' and > maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! great job and > instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was only +2C > outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job > getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope > to never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the > weather capabilities of his radar were down. > > In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the > capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. > In other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, > what is available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather > dependant on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get > weather in the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no > lightning that I could see or hear, would a strike finder have > detected that? Short of an on-board radar, what are our options? > Also, we were planning on going with the Chelton's and I can > definately see how that would be nice to know, even if its synthetic > vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM weather be displayed on > the Chelton? > > Jon Reining 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings > and fuse just showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=36025#36025 > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:33 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I forgot to mention.... Jon, if you're not happy enough with just Nexrad and strikes shown by XM/WSI, the Chelton will also integrate to the WX-500 stormscope, so you can have that too, on it's own dedicated page. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to > avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service like > XM, and also/or a Stormscope. Remember that datalinked weather isn't > real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give you good > trend and near real time weather. Stormscopes on the other hand will > show you current lightning which is almost always hand in hand with > severe convective activity. > > I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS but > it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment to make > sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all. > > > Michael Sausen > RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage > Do Not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li > st-server@matronics.com ] > On Behalf Of Jon Reining > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:28 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" > --> > > I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his > Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the > beach at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is > just south of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt > strip paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. > > On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our > weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay > Area, and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it > looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, > called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too > bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our > pop-up, and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, > pretty easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and > encountered severe turblance and very near loss of control of the > airplane. We would be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then > quickly snapped to 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was > probably 60 degrees at one point. Our attitude and altitude were all > over the place. This lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us > clearance to descend to 4000' and maneuver to the north. My friend, > CFI/CFII, did a ! > great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was > only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job > getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to > never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather > capabilities of his radar were down. > > In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the > capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In > other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is > available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant > on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in > the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I > could see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of > an on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on > going with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice > to know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can > XM weather be displayed on the Chelton? > > Jon Reining > 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just > showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p6025#36025 > > > > > *http://www.matronic ======================== & Matronics > Email List ; & --> > http://www.matronics.com/c > ===================================== > > > > > * > > > > * * > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:09 PM PST US From: "David McNeill" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" Have 15 years using a Strikefinder and found them to be very helpful in avoiding the bad stuff (turbulence and hail) Came through an area IMC at 5000 near Cross City Florida where there were no strikes and had a smooth ride with moderate to very heavy rain. The airplane was leaking around the doors. When I popped into blue sky I looked back and asked myself "Did I come through that" a cliff of clouds with tops to FL400. At least in my book the game is stay away from the strikes. For the 10 I considered the Strikefinder but have delayed purchase and am now experimenting with XM weather and Truemap software in my Glastar. I will know more about using XM after the OSH trip and then perhaps can make an informed decision on Strikefinder (cost $5000) or XM weather (monthly charges forever). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:48 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance > --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis > > I flew with a Strikefinder in my B55 Baron's and they were VERY effective > in identifying thunderstorms, and much less expensive. I also had onboard > radar on one of them, and I preferred the Strikefinder data, (The radar is > sometimes dificult to interpret if you don't fly it regularly (my case). > > Deems Davis # 406 > Fuse > http://deemsrv10.com/ > > RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > >> Short of onboard radar the two main technologies I can think of to >> avoid unidentified/unexpected weather are NEXRAD, through a service like >> XM, and also/or a Stormscope. Remember that datalinked weather isn't >> real time so it isn't always the best answer but it will give you good >> trend and near real time weather. Stormscopes on the other hand will >> show you current lightning which is almost always hand in hand with >> severe convective activity. >> >> I have considered adding a wx-500 to whatever I choose for an EFIS but >> it really needs to be installed by someone with proper equipment to make >> sure they don't pickup interference, or worse nothing at all. >> >> >> Michael Sausen >> RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage >> Do Not Archive >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li >> st-server@matronics.com ] On >> Behalf Of Jon Reining >> Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 11:28 AM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance >> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jon Reining" >> --> >> >> I flew down to Mexico from Oakland, CA this weekend with a friend in his >> Cherokee 180 with my brother to celebrate his bachelor party on the beach >> at Alfonsina's to drink beer, fish, and relax. Alfonsina's is just south >> of San Felipe on the Baja Peninsula, about a 2,500' dirt strip >> paralleling the beach, great relaxing spot. >> >> On our way home, we stopped in Calexico to clear customs and get our >> weather briefing. It showed some light scattered storms in the Bay Area, >> and we'd probably have to file on the way home depending on how it >> looked. About 75-80 miles out, we could see buildup over the hills, >> called up flight service and got a weather briefing, didn't look all too >> bad, but we couldn't make it in VFR so we filed IFR, received our pop-up, >> and were headed in at 8,000'. We were soon in IMC, no big deal, pretty >> easy sailing, when all of a sudden we hit a thunderstorm and encountered >> severe turblance and very near loss of control of the airplane. We would >> be up 100', down 200', 45 degrees to the right, then quickly snapped to >> 45 degrees to the left, our maximum bank angle was probably 60 degrees at >> one point. Our attitude and altitude were all over the place. This >> lasted for a full two minutes. ATC gave us clearance to descend to 4000' >> and maneuver to the north. My friend, CFI/CFII, did a ! >> great job and instinctively reduced power, gave full carb heat (it was >> only +2C outside and raining but no sign of icing), and did a great job >> getting us out of there. It was a really tough spot, one that I hope to >> never be in again. After we got out, ATC announced that the weather >> capabilities of his radar were down. >> In light of all this, I'm starting to give lots of thought to the >> capabilities of the various weather alternatives for the RV10 panel. In >> other words, if ATC can't tell us when we're headed for trouble, what is >> available to us so that we can see it ourself? Is XM weather dependant >> on air traffic control's weather radar? Would we still get weather in >> the cockpit if their's is out? Since there was no lightning that I could >> see or hear, would a strike finder have detected that? Short of an >> on-board radar, what are our options? Also, we were planning on going >> with the Chelton's and I can definately see how that would be nice to >> know, even if its synthetic vision, what the ground looks like. Can XM >> weather be displayed on the Chelton? >> >> Jon Reining >> 40514 (along with my dad) working on elevators, QB wings and fuse just >> showed up (and thinking of weather capabilities) >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http:/ /forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p6025#36025 >> >> >> >> >> *http://www.matronic ======================== & Matronics >> Email List ; & --> >> http://www.matronics.com/c >> ==================================== >> >> >> >> >> * >> >> >> >> * * >> > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List > http://wiki.matronics.com > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:27 PM PST US From: Eric Panning Subject: Re: RV10-List: Weather capabilities and severe turblance - pilot account --> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning The pilot also had a write up on the Cherokee Chat board: "This weekend I flew my plane with a couple of friends down to Alfonsina's for a batchelor party weekend. We left OAK Thursday night, overnighted in Calexico and made it to Alfonsina's by noon on Friday. We spent that afternoon, and all day Saturday fishing, playing in the beautiful warm water, eating great food and consuming mass quantities of ice cold beer. We were in the air at 8 AM this morning and screamed back up to the border with the help of a 15-20 Kt tailwind. After breakfast and a weather brief at Calexico, we launched into uncertain conditions over Southern California, the High Desert and the Central Valley. A late season storm was approaching from the southwest, very moist and unstable, with winds aloft from the south at 25-50 Kts. Things were actually quite doable over Southern California, and I was enjoying the 30 Kt push towards home. We were able to punch through a line of showers NW of Bakersfield while maintaining VFR, but there was another band of precip that was plopped over the last 100 miles of the route. FSS advised me that there were multiple layers from 2000 to FL200, light scattered rain showers and the freezing level was around 9000 ft. Pilot reports weren't indicating anything too scary, and most of the reports were light rime icing at 12000 Ft. Since I didn't want to scud-run into OAK, I filed in the air and got direct Panoche VOR, direct OAK at 8000. Easy, straightworward, straight-in to the ILS for 27R. We went into the goo about 25-30 miles south of Panoche, and I was enjoying the challenge of hand-flying my plane in real IFR, with the temps about 2 C. Things were going along just fine until we were about 20 miles northwest of Panoche on V-301, when it was as if somebody had turned on a blender and we were in it! The instrument panel was an incomprehensible blur. It was the most severe turbulence I've ever been in, and we were in solid IMC. We must have flown into an imbedded thunderstorm, and Center didn't have it on their radar. I could barely control the plane. I immediately informed Center of the situation and they gave me a turn to the North and a descent to 6000 ft. I fought with the plane to maintain control, just to keep the wings somewhere near level and the airspeed in the green while descending towards the Central Valley and lower terrain. I kept telling myself not to give up... Just fly the plane. It took me about 2 or 3 minutes to get down to 6000, but we were still in IMC, though the turbulence had eased a bit. We were cleared to 4000, and began to descend again. At 5500 I was head down, on the gages when by friend Jon called ground in sight, and at 4900 we were completely clear of the base of a very angry-looking black cloud mass. I told Center we were clear and he immediately issued an Airmet for severe turbulence in the area, and began deviating 3 other aircraft that were in-trail around the area I encountered the turbulence. At that point I heard him mention something about their weather radar capability being INOP at the time... So I guess that made me the canary in the coal mine. Anyway, we made it into OAK with little fuss after dodging a couple of showers near Livermore. 3 hours block time CXL to OAK with a little excitement thrown in for good measure. Moral of story? No good deed goes unpunished? S#!t happens? How about "Do not give up on the airplane!"? Truly, one of the thoughts that went through my mind as I was struggling to maintain control of the the plane was "My wife is gonna kill me if I die now and ruin our Italian vacation plans!" I'm very happy to be alive, and to be able to write this down for your perusal. Stay safe." The Cherokee Board also discussed the XM weather and the 396. What wasn't clear was if weather was down locally for ATC or west coast. I use avwx.net on a blackberry for ground planning and it's Nexrad service was down on Sunday in the NW. NWS radar was still up and running (can also download to blackberry). Lot's of reasons not to rely on ATC for weather - see www.avweb.com and ATC columns. Eric 40150 Working on center section of fuselage ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:32 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders pilotdds@aol.com wrote: > Is anyone willing to comment on the master cylinders.It seems there > should be some sort of external return spring around the actuating > shafts.I notice some dragging when towing. All disc brakes drag .... just some more than others. As for the spring, I'd recommend it. It'll surely take off some pressure, and it'll make bleeding the brakes a lot easier. Doesn't take much piston travel to shur off the valve. Linn just my two pennies. do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:02 PM PST US From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders Not sure what you mean dragging when towing?? There are no external springs. Check your nut are not to tight on pedal Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: pilotdds@aol.com To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 3:48 AM Subject: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders Is anyone willing to comment on the master cylinders.It seems there should be some sort of external return spring around the actuating shafts.I notice some dragging when towing. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:17 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Just think you wouldn't be spending $30+ per hour for fuel either just to land where you took off from (Most of the time!) Jim C Do nOT archive. .. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:31 PM PST US From: "Chris , Susie Darcy" Subject: RV10-List: test TEST do not archive ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:59 PM PST US From: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders In a message dated 5/23/2006 1:51:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, pilotdds@aol.com writes: It seems there should be some sort of external return spring around the actuating shafts.I notice some dragging when towing. The brakes on my C-170 are the same, they don't spring open, and will touch ever so slightly against the disks..... but in the air, the wheels are not turning! As the pads wear, the contact often lightens up when the brakes are NOT applied. Not a major issue. Steve Stephen G. Blank,DDS RV-10 #40499 Finishing the HS Cessna 170b Flyer Port St Lucie, FL 772-475-5556 cell ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:33 PM PST US From: Kelly McMullen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen Or, you could just buy a 20 yr old Mooney 201, miss all the great building experience, choice of avionics experience, spend about the same money, go the same speed, on 2-4gph less(have a 4 cyl engine with cheaper overhaul) and have real operating gear....oh, and you lose one cabin door, need ~2000 ft runways instead of 1000 ft and can't climb as fast..........choices, choices. Quoting John Jessen : > --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" > > Tim, could you also add an intermittent, random failure of one of the > indicator lights, just for yucks! Would appreciate it. I miss suspense of > seeing 3-green. > > John J > > do not archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim > Dawson-Townsend > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 10:05 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" > --> > > > That's brilliant! Maybe I'll put in a noise generator wired into the audio > system, so when the wheels go down you hear the gear motor and the rush of > disturbed air . . . > > TDT > Do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim@combsfive.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:34 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: > > Van was asked the same question at Oshkosh. His comment was to put a gear > handle on the panel with some lights. Move the handle and the lights > indicate gear position. You can't see them anyway, just pretend they are up > (or down). > > Jim Combs > > Do Not Archive > > > ===================================================== > From: Tim Olson > Date: 2006/05/23 Tue AM 07:10:59 EDT > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Thoughts as requested... > Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over > the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time > that could be spent either flying or with the family or both? Not for me. > Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly > reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a > retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along > the way... > not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. > > I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If someone > wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit > that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an > awesome plane. But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the > ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make > sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:08 PM PST US From: "Jack Sargeant" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders All disc brakes depend on the minute wobble in the rotors to push the pucks back when released. I've never seen any with return springs, and I don't think that springs on the master cylinders would help either. Jack & Cecilia Sargeant 1127 Patricia St. Wichita, KS 67208-2642 316/682-5268 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 4:30 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Brake master cylinders In a message dated 5/23/2006 1:51:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, pilotdds @aol.com writes: The brakes on my C-170 are the same, they don' t spring open, and will touch ever so slightly against the disks..... but in the air, the wheels are not turning! As the pads wear, the contact of ten lightens up when the brakes are NOT applied. Not a major issue. Steve Stephen G. Blank,DDS RV-10 #40499 &n bsp; Finishing the HS Cessna 170b Flyer Port St Lucie, FL 772-475-5556 cell ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:23 AM PST US From: "Rob Kermanj" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar SGVyZSBpcyBteSBzZXR1cC4gIEl0IGlzIGEgQnJhY2tldCB0b3diYXIuICBJdCB3b3JrcyBncmVh dCBmb3IgbWUuCgrvv7wKCk9uIDUvMjQvMDYsIE1hcmsgUml0dGVyIDxtcml0dGVyNTA5QG1zbi5j b20+IHdyb3RlOgo+IC0tPiBSVjEwLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6ICJNYXJrIFJpdHRl ciIKPgo+Cj4gSSBwdXJjaGFzZWQgbXkgUlYtMTAgdG93IGJhciBhdCB3d3cuYm9nZXJ0LWF2LmNv bS4gIFdvcmtzIGdyZWF0Lgo+Cj4KPiAgX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18K PiAgRnJvbTogcGlsb3RkZHNAYW9sLmNvbQo+IFJlcGx5LVRvOiBydjEwLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNz LmNvbQo+Cj4gVG86IHJ2MTAtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFJWMTAt TGlzdDogUlYtMTAgVG93IEJhcgo+IERhdGU6IFdlZCwgMjQgTWF5IDIwMDYgMTA6Mjk6NTIgLTA0 MDAKPgo+Cj4KPgo+IEkgd2lsbCBnZXQgcGFydCBudW1iZXIgdGhpcyB3ZWVrZW5kLgo+IC0tLS0t T3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tCj4gRnJvbTogSlNNY0dyZXdAYW9sLmNvbQo+IFRvOiBydjEw LWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQo+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZCwgMjQgTWF5IDIwMDYgMDk6MjQ6MDIgRURU Cj4gU3ViamVjdDogUlYxMC1MaXN0OiBSVi0xMCBUb3cgQmFyCj4KPgo+Cj4gTXkgcXVlc3QgZm9y IGEgdG93IGJhciB0aGF0IHdvcmtzIHdpdGggbXkgUlYtMTAgY29udGludWVzLiBJZiBhbnlvbmUg Y2Egbgo+IHBvaW50IG1lIGluIHRoZSByaWdodCBkaXJlY3Rpb24sIEkgd291bGQgYXBwcmVjaWF0 ZSBpdC4gVGhlIG9ubHkgdGhpbmcKPiBtZW50aW9uZWQgaW4gdGhlIGFyY2hpdmVzIGlzIG9uZSBm cm9tIENvc3MgQXZpYXRpb24gZnJvbSBTb3V0aCBBZnJpY2EgYW5kIGEKPiBjb3VwbGUgZ2VuZXJh bCByZWZlcmVuY2VzIHRvIEJyYWNrZXQgQWlyY3JhZnQgYW5kIEFpcmNyYWZ0IFNwcnVjZS4gRG9l cyBhbnlvCj4gbmUgaGF2ZSBhIHNwZWNpZmljIHBhcnQgbnVtYmVyIG9mIG9uZSB0aGF0IHdvcmtz Pwo+Cj4gVGhlIFVuaXZlcnNhbCBUb3cgYmFyIGZyb20gQWlyY3JhZnQgU3BydWNlIChwYXJ0ICMx My0wMjI1MCkgZG9lcyBOT1Qgd28gcmsuCj4gSSdtIHNlbmRpbmcgaXQgYmFjayBhbmQgZ29pbmcg dG8gdHJ5IGFnYWluLi4uCj4KPiAtSmltIE1jR3Jldwo+IDQwMTM0Cj4KPgo+IF8tPT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cj4gXy09 IC0gVGhlIFJWMTAtTGlzdCBFbWFpbCBGb3J1bSAtIF8tPSBVc2UgdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBMaXN0 IEZlYXR1cmVzCj4gTmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZSBfLT0gdGhlIG1hbnkgTGlzdCB1dGlsaXRp ZXMgc3VjaCBhcyB0aGUgU3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucwo+IHBhZ2UsIF8tPSBBcmNoaXZlIFNlYXJjaCAm IERvd25sb2FkLCA3LURheSBCcm93c2UsIENoYXQsIEZBUSwgXy09Cj4gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5k IG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOiBfLT0gXy09IC0tPgo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9O YXZpZ2F0b3I/UlYxMC1MaXN0Cj4gXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KPiBfLT0gLSBORVcgTUFUUk9OSUNTIExJU1QgV0lL SSAtIF8tPSBDaGVjayBvdXQgdGhlIEFsbCBOZXcgTWF0cm9uaWNzIEVtYWlsCj4gTGlzdCBXaWtp ISBfLT0gXy09IC0tPiBodHRwOi8vd2lraS5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tCj4gXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0KPiBfLT0gLSBM aXN0IENvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbiBXZWIgU2l0ZSAtIF8tPSBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJv dXMgc3VwcG9ydCEKPiBfLT0gLU1hdHQgRHJhbGxlLCBMaXN0IEFkbWluLiBfLT0gLS0+Cj4gaHR0 cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NvbnRyaWJ1dGlvbgo+IF8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09Cg ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:06 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mangled messages? --> RV10-List message posted by: Yep, I see them too, not consistantly, but often enough. Jim C Do not archive ========================================================== From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RV10-List: Mangled messages? Anyone else seeing problems with HTML emails coming from the Matronics list remailer? The HTML based list emails I have been getting have malformed URL links, blank emails, and missing sentences. It's all normal when you look at the forum site, but they are messed up in email. This is only happening to HTML emails. Sent samples to Matt yesterday but haven't heard anything, just want to know if other people are seeing this also. An example is the link below that is missing the "h" and has an extra quote at the end. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:35 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work fine. For some reason Spruce doesn't list it though http://www.bogert-av.com/ bogi-bars.php model #4-RV10; $84 Bob #40105 ________________________________ My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that works? The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... -Jim McGrew 40134 ========================================================== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:41 AM PST US From: James Hein Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mangled messages? --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein They've been fine for myself, using Mozilla 1.7.13 -Jim RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Anyone else seeing problems with HTML emails coming from the Matronics > list remailer? The HTML based list emails I have been getting have > malformed URL links, blank emails, and missing sentences. It's all > normal when you look at the forum site, but they are messed up in > email. This is only happening to HTML emails. Sent samples to Matt > yesterday but haven't heard anything, just want to know if other > people are seeing this also. An example is the link below that is > missing the "h" and has an extra quote at the end. > > > Michael Sausen > > RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li > st-server@matronics.com ] > On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:35 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar > > > Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work > fine. For some reason Spruce doesnt list it though > > > http://www.bogert-av.com/ bogi-bars.php > > > > model #4-RV10; $84 > > > Bob #40105 > > ________________________________ > > My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone > ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only > thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South > Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and > Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that > works? > > > The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT > wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... > > > -Jim McGrew > > 40134 > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:14 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Mangled messages? From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Yes, I've been seeing the problems. Anybody sent an email to Matt to find out if he "enhanced" the system? Bob Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:31 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mangled messages? --> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein They've been fine for myself, using Mozilla 1.7.13 -Jim RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > Anyone else seeing problems with HTML emails coming from the Matronics > list remailer? The HTML based list emails I have been getting have > malformed URL links, blank emails, and missing sentences. It's all > normal when you look at the forum site, but they are messed up in > email. This is only happening to HTML emails. Sent samples to Matt > yesterday but haven't heard anything, just want to know if other > people are seeing this also. An example is the link below that is > missing the "h" and has an extra quote at the end. > > > Michael Sausen > > RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage > > Do Not Archive > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li > st-server@matronics.com ] > On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:35 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar > > > Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work > fine. For some reason Spruce doesn't list it though > > > http://www.bogert-av.com/ bogi-bars.php > > > > model #4-RV10; $84 > > > Bob #40105 > > ________________________________ > > My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone > ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only > thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South > Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and > Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that > works? > > > The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT > wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... > > > -Jim McGrew > > 40134 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:42 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Mangled messages? From: "Phillips, Jack" --> RV10-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" I've seen them on this list, as well as Matronics' Pietenpol List Jack Phillips -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jim@CombsFive.Com Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mangled messages? --> RV10-List message posted by: Yep, I see them too, not consistantly, but often enough. Jim C Do not archive ========================================================= From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" Subject: RV10-List: Mangled messages? Anyone else seeing problems with HTML emails coming from the Matronics list remailer? The HTML based list emails I have been getting have malformed URL links, blank emails, and missing sentences. It's all normal when you look at the forum site, but they are messed up in email. This is only happening to HTML emails. Sent samples to Matt yesterday but haven't heard anything, just want to know if other people are seeing this also. An example is the link below that is missing the "h" and has an extra quote at the end. Michael Sausen RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage Do Not Archive ________________________________ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:35 AM Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work fine. For some reason Spruce doesn't list it though http://www.bogert-av.com/ bogi-bars.php model #4-RV10; $84 Bob #40105 ________________________________ My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that works? The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... -Jim McGrew 40134 ========================================================= Cardinal Health -- Working together. For life. (sm) This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese - Svenska: www.cardinalhealth.com/legal/email ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:08 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RE: RV10-List: Mangled messages? --> RV10-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Hi RV10'ers, I'm looking into this weird problem. I haven't really made any "enhancements" in recent history, so I'm not sure what's causing it. Has anyone noticed specifically if the problem occurs when the message is *originated* from the Forums BBS or from an Email directly to the List? Matt Dralle List Admin At 09:36 AM 5/24/2006 Wednesday, you wrote: >--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" > >Yes, I've been seeing the problems. Anybody sent an email to Matt to >find out if he "enhanced" the system? > >Bob > >Do Not Archive > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein >Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 11:31 AM >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mangled messages? > >--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein > > >They've been fine for myself, using Mozilla 1.7.13 > >-Jim > >RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote: > >> Anyone else seeing problems with HTML emails coming from the Matronics > >> list remailer? The HTML based list emails I have been getting have >> malformed URL links, blank emails, and missing sentences. It's all >> normal when you look at the forum site, but they are messed up in >> email. This is only happening to HTML emails. Sent samples to Matt >> yesterday but haven't heard anything, just want to know if other >> people are seeing this also. An example is the link below that is >> missing the "h" and has an extra quote at the end. >> >> >> Michael Sausen >> >> RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage >> >> Do Not Archive >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-li >> st-server@matronics.com ] > >> On Behalf Of Condrey, Bob (US SSA) >> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 8:35 AM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 Tow Bar >> >> >> >> Bogert has one specifically made for the RV-10 that seems to work >> fine. For some reason Spruce doesn't list it though >> >> >> >> http://www.bogert-av.com/ bogi-bars.php >> >> >> >> >> model #4-RV10; $84 >> >> >> >> Bob #40105 >> >> ________________________________ >> >> My quest for a tow bar that works with my RV-10 continues. If anyone >> ca n point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. The only >> thing mentioned in the archives is one from Coss Aviation from South >> Africa and a couple general references to Bracket Aircraft and >> Aircraft Spruce. Does anyo ne have a specific part number of one that >> works? >> >> >> >> The Universal Tow bar from Aircraft Spruce (part #13-02250) does NOT >> wo rk. I'm sending it back and going to try again... >> >> >> >> -Jim McGrew >> >> 40134 >> >> >> > > > > > > > > > > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:11 AM PST US From: Rick Subject: RE: RV10-List: Mangled messages? --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick One other builder contacted me direct and said my messages were not coming to him in HTML, he recieves the messages in digest form and not direct email. He told me to use plain text....well....I is dumb in that department so if there is a way for me to do plain text...let me know Rick S. 40185 Fuse do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:47 AM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" Amen to this! I heard of an RV-6 that was made retractable. It weighted a lot more, so had less usefull load, cost a TON more to make, took a LOT longer, and added as much a 6kts to cruise. Go ahead, but don't expect a lot to follow. Van's has a great design. Oh yeah, and expect the insurance to be a LOT higher. Do not archive. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org 352-465-4545 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:11 AM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Thoughts as requested... Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and building time that could be spent either flying or with the family or both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the ability to do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Paul Walter wrote: > In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to adapt > a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure how far > into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he should be > able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any thoughts ?. As > for me I'll just keep working on the empenage. > > Paul Walter -- -- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:39 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson I just finished an article in Flying Magazine the other day. They had some guy who is related to insuring cessnas or something who stated that the cost of a 182RG versus an ordinary 182 was something like double the insurance cost, or maybe it was 4 times the cost. The 182 is *kind of* comparable to the RV-10. Imagine $6900 insurance on your new RV-10. Or, if it was 4 times.....$13,800. Wish I could remember, but since it was about a Cessna I didn't pay as much attention. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive Jesse Saint wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" > > Amen to this! I heard of an RV-6 that was made retractable. It weighted a > lot more, so had less usefull load, cost a TON more to make, took a LOT > longer, and added as much a 6kts to cruise. Go ahead, but don't expect a > lot to follow. Van's has a great design. Oh yeah, and expect the insurance > to be a LOT higher. > > Do not archive. > > Jesse Saint > I-TEC, Inc. > jesse@itecusa.org > www.itecusa.org > 352-465-4545 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson > Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2006 6:11 AM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson > > Thoughts as requested... > Trade a couple of kts of speed which may save you a few hours of time > over the life of the airplane, for many many hours of design and > building time that could be spent either flying or with the family > or both? Not for me. Also, one of the nicest things about the -10 > is that you can own it and fly reasonably fast without the many > maintenance hassles that can come up with a retract system that > will only cost you MORE money, and MORE headaches along the way... > not to mention the occasional possible ger-up landing. > > I guess I'm thinking the RV-10 was built as it is for a reason. > If someone wants a retract, they should consider actually building > a retractible kit that was designed for it, or buying a used > Bonanza, which would be an awesome plane > > But, isn't that the beauty of homebuilding? He has the ability to > do things that make little sense for numerous reasons, but make > sense for only a couple....and yet he's still fine to do it. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > Paul Walter wrote: >> In read on a web site that a guy in Western Australia is trying to adapt >> a retratrable undercarraige from a lancair to an RV 10. Not sure how far >> into this mission he is but if he is sucessfull i'm sure he should be >> able to squeeze a few more knots out of this thing. Any thoughts ?. As >> for me I'll just keep working on the empenage. >> >> Paul Walter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:56 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable My neighbor just insured his Cessna 210 with retracts - - $2,400 a year for $100,000 Hull He has 800 hours and VFR only Rob Hickman ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:21 PM PST US From: "Bruce Case" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bruce Case" I fly both an Archer and Piper Arrow. Annual insurance on the Archer is $1200, on the Arrow it is $2000. Bruce Case #40446 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:52 PM PST US From: LIKE2LOOP@aol.com Subject: Re: RV10-List: Horizontal Stabilizer Riveting In a message dated 5/24/06 10:02:58 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, pioneer@choiceonemail.com writes: Has anyone done anything additional before putting in the rivets on the leading edge ribs? i held the skins together at the trailing edge with rubber tipped spring clamps a foot or two away from where i was rivetting. This kept them from bending wide open and kept the skin in close contact to the tip ribs, be careful to not crease the metal with hard clamps. I need to rivet the aft spar to place and my HS is done! Steve Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder #40499 / C-170B flyer 766 SE River Lane Port St. Lucie, FL 34983 772-475-5556 cell ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:43 PM PST US From: "Michael Lefever" Subject: Re: RV10-List: N519RV (40250) just received it's airworthiness today. Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Kermanj To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 2:06 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: N519RV (40250) just received it's airworthiness today. --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" > Good luck and be careful! Do not archive On 5/22/06, Doerr, Ray R [NTK] > wrote: > > > > > N519RV (40250) just received it's airworthiness today from > Chuck Morris (DAR). I have a IO-540-D4A5 that was rebuilt by America's > Aircraft Engines with the Silver Hawk EX fuel injection. My engine data > plate was replace with one from America's Aircraft Engine which says > Experimental IV, but I still manage to get a 25 hour fly off with the > Hartzell blended airfoil prop. The only thing the DAR found was that when > the rudder cables are left slack, they tend to rest on the top surface of > the 2nd last bulkhead ( the one in which the cables run in the center of), > so he suggested that I put a split hose over the top of the bulkhead so when > the cables won't rub against the bulkhead. First flight is schedule for > Friday May 26th at K34 around 04:00pm. > > > > Thank You > Ray Doerr > > > > > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D http://www.matronics.com/contribution =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:27 PM PST US From: GenGrumpy@aol.com Subject: RV10-List: avionics panel offer For those still thinking about a panel, check this out. I bought the overhead console Tony showed down at Sun n Fun, and he is making an offer for any -10 builder. Just wanted to pass this along to the crowd. grumpy Tony Sustare Accuracy Avionics I realize you've made plans for your panel, but if you know of anyone getting close please let them know I'm ready to work a deal for anyone willing to have their panel displayed at Oshkosh. I'd rather build a panel for a customer than to build one to disassemble! I'll make it worth his while. Phone: 541-350-2168 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:32 PM PST US From: "John Lenhardt" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable This is an interesting thread, but there may be one flaw in the assumptions.....namely that you could get insurance! John #40262 ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Case To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 5:25 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Retractable --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bruce Case" I fly both an Archer and Piper Arrow. Annual insurance on the Archer is $1200, on the Arrow it is $2000. Bruce Case #40446 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D