Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:32 AM - Re: Painting (Rob Kermanj)
2. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps (John Hasbrouck)
3. 11:04 AM - Re: Re: air drills vs cordless (Eric Panning)
4. 11:05 AM - Re: Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps (James Hein)
5. 01:22 PM - WD1002 and F1001B alignment (John Hasbrouck)
6. 02:31 PM - Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment (Rick)
7. 02:32 PM - Re: Re: air drills vs cordless (Rick)
8. 03:15 PM - Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment (John Hasbrouck)
9. 04:12 PM - Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment (Albert Gardner)
10. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: air drills vs cordless (Jesse Saint)
11. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: air drills vs cordless (Jesse Saint)
12. 04:57 PM - Re: Re: air drills vs cordless (JOHN STARN)
13. 05:00 PM - Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment (Jesse Saint)
14. 06:50 PM - N104ME (Jesse Saint)
15. 07:25 PM - Re: Re: air drills vs cordless (Chris W)
16. 07:27 PM - Re: N104ME (David Boone)
17. 07:40 PM - Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment (Deems Davis)
18. 10:22 PM - Re: N104ME (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
19. 11:23 PM - Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy of RTCA/DO-229C (Deems Davis)
Message 1
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10@gmail.com>
Thanks Hugo, I will check them out.
On 6/9/06, gommone7@bellsouth.net <gommone7@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> > Check the one in Lantana, (KLNA)West Palm Beach airport,have a very good reputation
> Hugo
> > Date: 2006/06/09 Fri AM 07:59:58 EDT
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: RV10-List: Painting
> >
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Kermanj" <flysrv10@gmail.com>
> >
> > Does anyone have a REALLY GOOD paint shop to recommend in Florida?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
Geez, I wish I'd have known that my B & D 14V "Firestorm" wouldn't work
well. Just finishing the fuselage with it now. Personally I think high
speed air drills are your enemy not your friend. Much easier to drill
out the occasional bad rivet with a slow turning cordless drill! My
$.02
John
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: air drills vs cordless |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Eric Panning <ericmpmail-rv10@yahoo.com>
Cordless drill is great for countersinking, but air
drill key for #30,#40 holes. Nice part about the air
drill is you can use it all day long and it is never
runs hotter than the air coming to it. I've had 4+ hr
sessions match drilling tail cone, wings, etc. My
experience is electric and cordless drills would be
hot to the touch with this sort of duty cycle.
My Sioux drill is actually one of my favorite tools
out of all of them, next would be my squeezer. It's
small, thin, light, well balanced, excellent trigger
control and fast.
What cordless drill are you using? 12V and 18V models
are too big to fit in many of the spaces.
Incremental cost of air drill is low as you need a
compressor anyway for setting rivets, etc.
Eric
--- Jesse Saint <jesse@itecusa.org> wrote:
> I am not arguing the value of air drills vs.
> electric drills. Im just
> arguing the point as it applies to building
> airplanes. If you are happy
> with yours, thats great. I wouldnt use an
> electric slow drill (comparing
> your electric highspeed handpieces to turbine
> handpieces isnt apples to
> apples. You would have to compare a 300,000 air
> handpiece to a 25,000
> electric. Yes, the electric would have more torque,
> but it would take a lot
> longer to get through enamel. Im not a dentist,
> but I do make handpieces.)
> for final-drilling my skins with the substructure
> because it would just be
> too slow. With the air drill you barely touch the
> hole and its drilled,
> which is where the weight really makes a difference.
> Size also makes a
> difference in tight places, where the 5/8 or so
> from the center of the bit
> to the edge of the drill allows you to drill holes
> with a normal bit that
> you otherwise may need a long bit for, or an angle
> drill. There is also the
> issue that someone mentioned of drilling aluminum
> slowly. I understand that
> Steel drills better when you are going slow, but
> aluminum seems to drill a
> lot easier when you are fast.
>
>
>
> If you like your battery drill, more power to you,
> and more power to your
> arm from the exercise. Enjoy!
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> HYPERLINK
> "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
>
> HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On
> Behalf Of LIKE2LOOP@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 11:00 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: air drills vs cordless
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/9/06 5:38:43 P.M. Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> jesse@itecusa.org writes:
>
> You are toting around a heavy cordless drill,
> worrying about keeping
> batteries charged,
>
> YES i am!!! It has great low speed control
> and far better torque at
> the high end. The batteries are not an issue... they
> go for days and there
> is a second one that comes in the kit. This is NOT
> a $15 cordless
> screwdriver. I still have my air drill... just
> waiting to see if i really
> need it again.....
>
>
>
> PS - As a dentist, i made the jump from the old air
> drills at the dental
> office to electric high speeds! Patients have
> noticed that they are quieter
> and smoother running. Much better balance,
> quieter, and tons of torque.
> Yes, they are heavier then the air units, but it is
> NOT a big deal. I can
> even set the speed with much more precision vs the
> air units, that were
> almost all or none.
>
>
>
> do not archive.
>
>
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> Stephen Blank RV-10 Builder #40499 / C-170B
> flyer
> 766 SE River Lane
> Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
>
> 772-475-5556 cell
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> --
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 3/32 match drilling HS Spar & Spar caps |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Yikes.. Flame war over drills?
As a famous engineer once said... "Use the right tool for the right job!"
Air drills work well for drilling aluminium, cordless/hand drills work
well for drilling out rivets, cordless screw drivers work well for
deburring..
As always, your mileage may vary.
-Jim 40384
John Hasbrouck wrote:
> Geez, I wish I'd have known that my B & D 14V "Firestorm" wouldn't
> work well. Just finishing the fuselage with it now. Personally I
> think high speed air drills are your enemy not your friend. Much
> easier to drill out the occasional bad rivet with a slow turning
> cordless drill! My $.02
>
> John
Message 5
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| Subject: | WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
I searched the archive for this problem since I'd seen it before but
couldn't come up with a definite answer. Here's the question. When I look
at the pre-punched holes in the F1001B upper angle and compare to how they
line up with the undrilled upper flange of the WD1002, it's obvious that
I'll run off the edge of the WD1002 with the aft most holes. Pic. attached.
Know some of you contacted Vans about this but never heard the solution. I
can improve the situation a little by loading the bracket ( pulling it
outboard ) but still am not getting more than about 1/16" edge distance, not
enough I think. This is only on the left side, the right will be OK. Want
to solve this problem before going any further and it looks like a new
WD1002L may be that solution. Comments.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
John,
I think there were a couple of different problems, 1) there were some bad 1002
brackets made and they needed to be exchanged. 2) Vans advised to clamp the leafs
of the bracket in the proper orientation prior to drilling. 3) it's just plain
very close to minimum edge distance. Your photos a bit blurry, maybe post
one that provides a little better angle as to where your seeing the problem,
the bracket may be Tango Uniform if the gap is really big compared to the right
side where you say there is not a problem. Compare the two brackets to see where
the difference might be in manufacture.
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: air drills vs cordless |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
I gotta hand drill with two gears and a handle and you just crank it, no air or
batteries and is a fast or slow as you you can crank!!!
What kinda primer are you guys using? :)
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
Rick,
I'm trying to get a good picture of this. I've outlined the rivets on
the flange of the WD1002L and R. On the left, the most aft rivet has a
distance to the edge of 1/16" and doesn't get to 1/8" until the 4th rivet
forward. On the right, the edge distance is at least 1/8" all the way. The
flanges of the weldment and the upper angle are not parallel on the left as
they are on the right. I could get better edge distance if I angled the
drill inboard when match drilling but the upper angle flange has a bend that
calls for a more outboard angle. john
Message 9
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| Subject: | WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
I just went through this also. I used some clamps to pull the steel flange
fingers in toward the alum channels so that the edge distance would be OK.
Albert Gardner
40-422
Yuma, AZ
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: air drills vs cordless |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
There's the solution we've all been looking for. :-) It's light, no cords,
and a great source of exercise. Takes the build time up to 3,000 hours, but
we're still well below the Lancair guys.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: air drills vs cordless
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
I gotta hand drill with two gears and a handle and you just crank it, no air
or batteries and is a fast or slow as you you can crank!!!
What kinda primer are you guys using? :)
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
do not archive
--
--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: air drills vs cordless |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Tried to catch that last one before it sent, but wasn't fast enough. On
primer, we have used a number of different things, but haven't seen anything
that even comes close to holding a candle to the Akzo Nobel primer from
Spruce. That stuff goes on easy, holds well and does not scratch easily.
Very highly recommended.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 5:32 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: air drills vs cordless
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
I gotta hand drill with two gears and a handle and you just crank it, no air
or batteries and is a fast or slow as you you can crank!!!
What kinda primer are you guys using? :)
Rick S.
40185
Fuse/Finish
do not archive
--
--
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: air drills vs cordless |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Yea, well I gots a bow with the string wrapped around the hardened & pointed
dowel. Iffen ya'll spins it too fast it'll catch fire. Back & forth just a
fast or slow as required. Do Not Archive 'cause the first liar don't stand
a chance. KABONG 8*)
In our rivet classes for jr & high schoolers we predrill all the holes to
3/32" and then have them re-drill them to fit the 1/8" rivets. One pop, one
flush & one round. What a concept, no measuring, no marking, no punching
start marks just enlarge the holes & put in a cleco. Drill motors ??, we use
a 120V corded, a battery powered cordless & an air driven.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick" <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: air drills vs cordless
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
> I gotta hand drill with two gears and a handle and you just crank it, no
> air or batteries and is a fast or slow as you you can crank!!!
>
> What kinda primer are you guys using? :)
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
> Fuse/Finish
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
We ran into very much the same problem on N256H and N415EC. On the latter,
we clamped the bracket to move it into position, then drilled and clecoed
every hole while check edge distance. It came out just fine.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: WD1002 and F1001B alignment
Rick,
I'm trying to get a good picture of this. I've outlined the rivets on
the flange of the WD1002L and R. On the left, the most aft rivet has a
distance to the edge of 1/16" and doesn't get to 1/8" until the 4th rivet
forward. On the right, the edge distance is at least 1/8" all the way. The
flanges of the weldment and the upper angle are not parallel on the left as
they are on the right. I could get better edge distance if I angled the
drill inboard when match drilling but the upper angle flange has a bend that
calls for a more outboard angle. john
--
--
Message 14
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Anybody know what John Stewart is asking for his -10?
HYPERLINK
"http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=8241"http://www.vans
airforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=8241
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
--
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: air drills vs cordless |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Chris W <3edcft6@cox.net>
Eric Panning wrote:
>Cordless drill is great for countersinking, but air
>drill key for #30,#40 holes. Nice part about the air
>drill is you can use it all day long and it is never
>runs hotter than the air coming to it. I've had 4+ hr
>sessions match drilling tail cone, wings, etc. My
>experience is electric and cordless drills would be
>hot to the touch with this sort of duty cycle.
>
>
I can't comment on the electric drill getting hot after long sessions
because long before that happened, my arm would fall off trying to hold
it up. I'm sure that isn't a concern for many, but if it is, you can do
what I plan to and use 1.25 lbs air drill.
--
Chris W
KE5GIX
Message 16
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His plane is listed in trade-a-plane for 230K. D Boone
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N104ME
Anybody know what John Stewart is asking for his -10?
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=8241
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
--
6/9/2006
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: WD1002 and F1001B alignment |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I did the same ( after screwing up the 1st one)
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
Albert Gardner wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
>
>
>I just went through this also. I used some clamps to pull the steel flange
>fingers in toward the alum channels so that the edge distance would be OK.
>Albert Gardner
>40-422
>Yuma, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
On the trade a plane add, I think it was around $230-$235K, it would be
interesting to hear if people are calling on it. Also, last year at
Oshkosh, didn't someone have another one for sale? Did not ever hear if
it sold, or for what?
Dan
40269
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2006 9:49 PM
Subject: RV10-List: N104ME
Anybody know what John Stewart is asking for his -10?
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=8241
Do not archive
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
--
6/9/2006
Message 19
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| Subject: | Experimental IFR w/o a certified GPS or looking for a copy |
of RTCA/DO-229C
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I recently read an article posted on Direct2. website
http://www.direct2avionics.com/pdfs/Using_GPS_for_IFR_flight.pd by a
Phd CFII that concludes that for EXPERIMENTAL aircraft, it was not
necessary for the aircraft to be equipped with a CERTIFIED GPS receiver
to legally file and fly IFR, PROVIDED that you, the pilot/mfg can
evaluate the GPS functionality, and find it provides all of the
necessary pilot input (as defined in the TSO) for IFR flight.
This sounded like it was worth looking into. I verified this opinion
with a competitor of Direct2. So off I go to study TSO-C146 the Standard
document for WAAS GPS, unfortunately there is nothing in the document
regarding functional requirements other than a reference to:
RTCA/DO-229B (which I learned has since been superceeded w/
RTCA/DO-229C). Another Google search reveals that this document is
available but with a cost which ranged from $108-370 per copy.
Does anyone know of a 'library' where this document could be 'rented' or
checked-out. a couple hundred bucks is a steep price for someone just
investigating an idea/thought.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse
http://deemsrv10.com/
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