Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:33 AM - Re: RV Fly-In (Wentz, Don)
2. 11:12 AM - CH 35 NACA vents (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
3. 11:54 AM - Re: Suggestion for purchasing a Carb for my 0-320. (Dj Merrill)
4. 04:39 PM - Re: Re: Trailing Edges (Chris)
5. 05:24 PM - Re: Trailing Edges (zackrv8)
6. 06:03 PM - Re: Re: Trailing Edges (Jesse Saint)
7. 06:23 PM - Re: Re: Trailing Edges (Tim Olson)
8. 06:30 PM - Re: Re: Trailing Edges (Tim Olson)
9. 06:37 PM - Re: Trailing Edges (zackrv8)
10. 08:47 PM - Re: Re: Trailing Edges (Albert Gardner)
11. 09:01 PM - RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (Mark & Gina Steffensen)
12. 09:21 PM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (Rick)
Message 1
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And for those on the Left coast, the 15th Annual Scappoose RV Flyin is
this Saturday, 6/17.
don
RV-6
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | CH 35 NACA vents |
Many of you ordered the fuselage and finish kit's together but for those
of you that haven't the NACA vents called out in Chapter 35 are actually
in the finish kit.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
Recent RV-10 Build Activity
<http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Suggestion for purchasing a Carb for my 0-320. |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
jdalton77 wrote:
> The carb on my PA28 needs to be replaced. I'm still flying the
> Cherokee while I'm building my -10. Can anyone suggest the best
> source for purchasing a new one?
>
Hi Jeff,
I don't know about purchasing a new one, but I can highly recommend
a place to have yours rebuilt.
They may also have ones available for purchase.
*Mike's Aircraft Fuel Metering
/ 9406 E 46th St N
Tulsa, OK 741175807
USA
Phone: 918-838-6217
Fax: 918-838-7047
-Dj
/*
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris" <toaster73@earthlink.net>
Zack
I checked my flaps, I have good alignment of the trailing edges of the flaps
and ailerons. I built one aileron all dorked up and twisted (in a hurry). SO
I built another one. But what I did notice on my flaps using your ruler
technique is that between the nose ribs of the flap along the leading edge
of the flap the nose seems to bulge out a bit and I get that nose area to
be a little lower than the bottom skin. If I move the flap from neutral
(neutral being the slightly reflexed position of the nose resting against
the rear spar at the ing root) the bottom nose of the flap moves in
alignment with the bottom skin in those bulging areas. It seems too that a
slight relocation of the hinge centers could affect things too, that could
be done by machining off center bushings but this would be a pain. I think
massaging the bulging area carefully could help too and also not setting the
flap at the full reflexed postion or a combination. I am going to stick with
mine. Since you have trailing edge problems you must have twist too.
-Chris Lucas
#40072 (fuselage)
----- Original Message -----
From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 4:57 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
>
> Jesse,
>
> OK. Pictures are worth a thousand words. Below are several pics I took
> of the flap wing gap.
>
> The first pic was taken between the two inboard flap hinges. Notice how
> the flap sticks out below the bottom skin.
>
> The second picture is a closer look. Pretty ugly.
>
> The third pic was taken right next to the middle flap hinge bracket.
> Perfect!
>
> I write this in hopes that someone else will not go through the same
> thing I did.
>
> I am not a first time builder. I have built a slow build RV8 and have a
> working knowledge of how Vans kits go together. However, this is stumping
> me at the moment.
>
> So, because of these irregularities, I get to build new flaps. What I
> would like to know is if anyone else out there seeing the same thing I am?
>
> Btw, this is a slow build RV10 kit.
>
> Zack
>
> --------
> RV8 #80125
> RV10 # 40512
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40214#40214
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04921_168.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04922_221.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/dsc04923_621.jpg
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
Guys,
Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible reasons
for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin of the flaps below
the bottom wing skin.
Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they move away
from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment that the trailing edges
match up perfectly when the flap is resting its nose against the back spar.
As Chris said, the flaps are reflexed in their neutral position. However,
the bottom of the flap bulges below the skin. I can move the flap just a hair
and the bulging flap problem goes away (because of the geometry). But then
the trailing edges don't line up.
So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs. Maybe the
spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward. Either way, I can't
accept it.
So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the plans just
a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and check alignment. I may
then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges together in alignment with
some very long straight edges. Then, I may even rivet the sucker together right
on the wing. That way, it should turn out fairly well in alignment. The wing
should make a perfect jig for holding the skeleton in place while riveting.
What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I have been
talking about.
zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40834#40834
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
As far as riveting the trailing edge while mounted on the wing, I don't know
if I recommend this. Do you use Proseal on the trailing edge? This is how
we do them...
We rivet the thing together as per the plans, then we take 1.5" or so
aluminum angle with holes the same as the trailing edge, proseal the
trailing edge and then cleco through the trailing edge and two of these
angles, one on top and one on bottom and let the proseal dry overnight while
the flap/aileron/rudder/elevator is laying flat on a flat surface (adding
weight is a good idea also). The next day we take off the angles, pass a
bit through the holes to clean out the proseal, scrub all proseal off the
skins, then back rivet the whole thing, alternating 7-10 holes (easiest by
marking "1 through whatever" the whole way down) on the steel table surface
(can also be done on steel angle hanging off the edge of the table). This
ends up in a perfect fit every time and a very straight trailing edge. Once
the proseal sets up, you can check for good alignment prior to riveting. We
have had one time where something moved and the alignment was lost, so we
opened up the trailing edge, cleaned off all the proseal, and started over.
This may be the way most people do it, and it may be the way the plans say
to do it, but I haven't read the plans on this part. I just have seen them
done this way so that's how we do them. One set of 2 pieces of angle the
length of the flap can be used for all 7 parts that require leading edge
material.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:23 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
--> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
Guys,
Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible
reasons for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin of the
flaps below the bottom wing skin.
Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they move
away from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment that the
trailing edges match up perfectly when the flap is resting its nose against
the back spar. As Chris said, the flaps are reflexed in their neutral
position. However, the bottom of the flap bulges below the skin. I can
move the flap just a hair and the bulging flap problem goes away (because of
the geometry). But then the trailing edges don't line up.
So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs. Maybe
the spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward. Either way, I
can't accept it.
So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the plans
just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and check
alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges together in
alignment with some very long straight edges. Then, I may even rivet the
sucker together right on the wing. That way, it should turn out fairly well
in alignment. The wing should make a perfect jig for holding the skeleton
in place while riveting.
What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I have
been talking about.
zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40834#40834
--
--
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Zack,
I hope I'm the Tim you meant....so I'll throw in my 1 cent. (I'd throw
in 2, but I don't know if I have that much left. ;) )
I'm just confused about what I'm seeing back and forth in the emails.
I saw your 3 pictures and I can't even begin to imagine how it came out
that way. I'm not trying to be insulting, so please don't take it that
way, but man, somethings wrong there. (I know you know that. ;) )
I only wish I could come up with a good reason.
I would durn well hope that the problem isn't with how the flap attach
brackets are, that are riveted to the wing....if they're bad, I'd hope
that they're bad on the FLAP side, not the wing side. You may want
to use a ruler and square and whatever you can, and verify that the
approximate orientations and distances to the holes on the flap brackets
on the WING side are all symmetrical with eachother. I mean, measure
from the skin edge or rivet line, or center of rear spar, to the holes
in the flap brackets, and make sure they're all identical. I'm
almost 100% sure they should be. If they are, then you can breathe
and sleep better knowing that the wing is OK, and the flaps are all
that's wrong.
When you get them right, it will be just like you imagine....they'll
all look like your 3rd picture. When the flaps are all the way up to
the rear spar, they're actually reflexed about 3 degrees I think.
I *think* if I remember right, that's the orientation I had them when
I lined up the trailing edges with my ailerons.
Now, I built that section 100% following the plans. I don't know if
you had bad parts, or slipped up somewhere, but if the parts were good,
I don't think it would be that easy to make that nasty looking of
a mistake. Make sure when you get the new parts that they're
also all symmetrical.
One other thing about building them straight.... I see you guys talking
about building some crooked ailerons and flaps. I just don't know
how they could come out that bad....and again, I'm not trying to
be insulting, so don't read any "tone" into that. All I can guess is
that 2 things are causing the problems:
1) Make sure you're using a nice, solid, flat 8' table to build these
on. My tables had doubled 2x4's and a nice solid rim around the top
with lots of under bracing and a 3/4" particle board top. Very nice
heavy tables.
2) I really think this is where people shouldn't be trying to get by
without the proseal. I set mine up, used that angle steel to cleco mine
to, as a backing plate, and used proseal to keep the edges together,
letting them cure for a night or two before I riveted. I can't say
that this is why they came out great, but I think that angle steel
idea (stolen from I think Mike Howe) was a real key, along with the
proseal.
Anyway, mine are super straight, no bows, no twists, and retracted the
bottoms are slightly reflexed, and the tops make a nice smooth line
all the way down the wing to the trailing edge. The forward nose is
straight, and runs into the rear spar evenly. Being a first time
builder, I guess I could call it beginners luck. But, you never
know if the parts were maybe bad in one batch or something. Stranger
things have happened. If you figure out the cause, post it. It will
be interesting.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
zackrv8 wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
>
> Guys,
>
> Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible
> reasons for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin
> of the flaps below the bottom wing skin.
>
> Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they
> move away from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment
> that the trailing edges match up perfectly when the flap is resting
> its nose against the back spar. As Chris said, the flaps are
> reflexed in their neutral position. However, the bottom of the flap
> bulges below the skin. I can move the flap just a hair and the
> bulging flap problem goes away (because of the geometry). But then
> the trailing edges don't line up.
>
> So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs.
> Maybe the spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward.
> Either way, I can't accept it.
>
> So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the
> plans just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and
> check alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing
> edges together in alignment with some very long straight edges.
> Then, I may even rivet the sucker together right on the wing. That
> way, it should turn out fairly well in alignment. The wing should
> make a perfect jig for holding the skeleton in place while riveting.
>
> What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
>
> Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I
> have been talking about.
>
> zack
>
> -------- RV8 #80125 RV10 # 40512
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
PS to my previous post:
This page shows a picture of the flaps all laid up:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/20041214/RV200412120032.html
This one is a link to my flaps section:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/wing/20041214/index.html
This one talks about the angle iron while doing the rudder.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/rudder/20040325/index.html
Thinking back, I can't remember if I used it while prosealing the
flaps, or just used it during riveting. Anyway, from the flap
photo above, you can see that with a very sturdy and straight bench,
and overhanging the trailing edge, they'd still be straight while
curing proseal. Additionally, and NOT shown in the photo, while
I let the proseal cure, I piled on lots of weight to the flaps...
spare steel bars, boxes of clecos, and stuff like that....anything
I could find that would help distribute the weight and keep all
the whole length of both flaps tightly laying against the workbench.
Commenting on Jesse's post, he did a great job explaining....it's
really what I think is the "right" way to do this task, and probably
why he/we didn't have a problem with twists.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Jesse Saint wrote:
> As far as riveting the trailing edge while mounted on the wing, I don't
> know if I recommend this. Do you use Proseal on the trailing edge?
> This is how we do them...
>
> We rivet the thing together as per the plans, then we take 1.5" or so
> aluminum angle with holes the same as the trailing edge, proseal the
> trailing edge and then cleco through the trailing edge and two of these
> angles, one on top and one on bottom and let the proseal dry overnight
> while the flap/aileron/rudder/elevator is laying flat on a flat surface
> (adding weight is a good idea also). The next day we take off the
> angles, pass a bit through the holes to clean out the proseal, scrub all
> proseal off the skins, then back rivet the whole thing, alternating 7-10
> holes (easiest by marking "1 through whatever" the whole way down) on
> the steel table surface (can also be done on steel angle hanging off the
> edge of the table). This ends up in a perfect fit every time and a very
> straight trailing edge. Once the proseal sets up, you can check for
> good alignment prior to riveting. We have had one time where something
> moved and the alignment was lost, so we opened up the trailing edge,
> cleaned off all the proseal, and started over.
>
> This may be the way most people do it, and it may be the way the plans
> say to do it, but I haven't read the plans on this part. I just have
> seen them done this way so that's how we do them. One set of 2 pieces
> of angle the length of the flap can be used for all 7 parts that require
> leading edge material.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zackrv8
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 8:23 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
>
> Guys,
>
> Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible
> reasons for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin of
> the flaps below the bottom wing skin.
>
> Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they
> move away from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment that
> the trailing edges match up perfectly when the flap is resting its nose
> against the back spar. As Chris said, the flaps are reflexed in their
> neutral position. However, the bottom of the flap bulges below the
> skin. I can move the flap just a hair and the bulging flap problem goes
> away (because of the geometry). But then the trailing edges don't line up.
>
> So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs.
> Maybe the spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward.
> Either way, I can't accept it.
>
> So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the
> plans just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and
> check alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges
> together in alignment with some very long straight edges. Then, I may
> even rivet the sucker together right on the wing. That way, it should
> turn out fairly well in alignment. The wing should make a perfect jig
> for holding the skeleton in place while riveting.
>
> What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
>
> Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I
> have been talking about.
>
> zack
>
> --------
> RV8 #80125
> RV10 # 40512
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40834#40834
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ,
> HREF="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
> Wiki!
> HREF="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
>
> support!
> HREF="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
> -- Release Date: 6/11/2006
>
>
> --
> 6/11/2006
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
Tim and all the others that have been so helpful....
The first thing I checked when things were not lining up was the hinge brackets
on the wings. The are dead nuts on. Thank you Tim....I will sleep well tonight!
Anyway, I'll report back to you guys as soon as I get the new parts. Also thanks
to the many suggestions out there for building straight control surfaces.
You guys are the best for sharing!
Zack
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40854#40854
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
Well, I didn't build the flap on the wing but I did make some brackets
to
hold the flap hinges in alignment while I built it. In the picture, the
clamp at the nose is to pull the trailing edge tight and remove the
waves.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
-----Original Message-----
Guys,
....So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the
plans just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and
check
alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges
together in
alignment with some very long straight edges. Then, I may even rivet
the
sucker together right on the wing. That way, it should turn out fairly
well
in alignment. The wing should make a perfect jig for holding the
skeleton
in place while riveting.
zack
Message 11
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| Subject: | RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Today I asked Van's regarding cracking between the fiberglass window
frames and the Plexiglas.
Van's told me that they were not aware that this is an issue. I saw this
cracking for myself on several RV10's at Sun in Fun.
I am getting close to installing my windows, has anyone devised an
alternative method to help prevent the cracking?
It appears to me that this anomaly it is due to the different expansion
and contracting properties of the fiberglass and Plexiglas.
I am planning on having a 1/16 gap between the plexi and window frames,
install windows with the Weld-10. Next I am planning on installing 2
inch fiberglass tape around the perimeter of the windows overlapping the
junction...Next fill and sand and fair into the fuselage lid and or
doors...
Any thoughts.....Mark
Mark Steffensen
Atlanta GA
RV8A Sold
RV10 Soon
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
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