Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:47 AM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (Tim Olson)
2. 05:55 AM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (Larry Rosen)
3. 07:56 AM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (David McNeill)
4. 07:57 AM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (David McNeill)
5. 08:30 AM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
6. 08:48 AM - Silpruf for window adhesive (Perry Casson)
7. 09:27 AM - windows (David McNeill)
8. 09:32 AM - List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? ()
9. 10:06 AM - Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (Werner Schneider)
10. 10:20 AM - Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (Phil Hall)
11. 10:21 AM - Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (John Gonzalez)
12. 10:56 AM - Re: Silpruf for window adhesive (Dave Saylor)
13. 12:10 PM - Re: Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? ()
14. 12:20 PM - Re: Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? ()
15. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: Trailing Edges (John Gonzalez)
16. 01:50 PM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (Mark Carey)
17. 05:37 PM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (rv10builder)
18. 06:11 PM - RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (L Aune)
19. 11:49 PM - Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I think it's amazing that the response you got was that they
were not aware. I haven't so far seen a -10 that doesn't have
at least a little cracking. Mine isn't nearly as bad as
some I've seen, but it's still fairly new at 84 approx. hours
and only a couple days out in the hot sun. Maybe it'll
get worse, maybe it won't. But it's definitely a minor
issue. There are those that think weld-on isn't the
stuff to use, and there are those who think that you should
lay light e-glass over the joint. I'm not overly disappointed
in how mine turned out, so I'm happy with the per-plans way
so far, but, if you can improve it without causing any
other issues, it's probably worth doing something else.
I'll leave the tips on that to those who've done something
else...but I think you're on the right track.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Mark & Gina Steffensen wrote:
> Today I asked Van's regarding cracking between the fiberglass window
> frames and the Plexiglas.
>
> Van's told me that they were not aware that this is an issue. I saw this
> cracking for myself on several RV10's at Sun in Fun.
>
> I am getting close to installing my windows, has anyone devised an
> alternative method to help prevent the cracking?
>
> It appears to me that this anomaly it is due to the different expansion
> and contracting properties of the fiberglass and Plexiglas.
>
> I am planning on having a 1/16 gap between the plexi and window frames,
> install windows with the Weld-10. Next I am planning on installing 2
> inch fiberglass tape around the perimeter of the windows overlapping the
> junction...Next fill and sand and fair into the fuselage lid and or doors...
>
> Any thoughts.....Mark
>
> Mark Steffensen
> Atlanta GA
>
> RV8A Sold
> RV10 Soon
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Another cosmetic solution is to add some pin striping at the window
junction per Vic Syracuse as see here
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/SunNFun_2006/Vic%20RV10/slides/2006-04-07-SnF-17.html>.
Not a cure but it does hide the cracks.
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Several things I would add to the previous message. Glassing the windows
in requires at least two people. One on the inside to clear the excess
and one on the outside to clear the excess insert the clecoes.
Additionally it helps to have some Teflon release cloth to place over
the edges to create a nice matte finish, absorb excess and a nice smooth
surface for further sanding.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Mark,
Mat be too late for you but Davis McNeill provided this tidbit that is
uesed with grat sucess on Glasairs...hopefullu it will help others if
you can't use it.
Rick S.
40185
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ;
with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other
is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place
with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside
the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE
LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount
of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover
the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the
Glastar procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass
sets up. The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of
glass on the aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does
not come off when finally removing the protective covering before
flight.
=========================
=========================
http://wiki.matronics.com
=========================
=========================
===========
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Also if anyone wants to see the finished product, my Glastar N48007 will
be parked in the homebuilt area Thursday morning through Saturday night
at OSH.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Mark,
Mat be too late for you but Davis McNeill provided this tidbit that is
uesed with grat sucess on Glasairs...hopefullu it will help others if
you can't use it.
Rick S.
40185
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ;
with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other
is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place
with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside
the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE
LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount
of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover
the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the
Glastar procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass
sets up. The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of
glass on the aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does
not come off when finally removing the protective covering before
flight.
=========================
=========================
http://wiki.matronics.com
=========================
=========================
===========
Message 5
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| Subject: | RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
Couple of things. Anyone consider using Sikaflex. It's very popular
with the rest of the RV crowd for bonding the canopy with the frame and
would be easier to work with. Could you use regular Dacron peel-ply
rather than Teflon cloth? Don't know if that would end up releasing or
not.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
Recent RV-10 Build Activity
<http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
Several things I would add to the previous message. Glassing the windows
in requires at least two people. One on the inside to clear the excess
and one on the outside to clear the excess insert the clecoes.
Additionally it helps to have some Teflon release cloth to place over
the edges to create a nice matte finish, absorb excess and a nice smooth
surface for further sanding.
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick <mailto:ricksked@earthlink.net>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
Mark,
Mat be too late for you but Davis McNeill provided this tidbit that is
uesed with grat sucess on Glasairs...hopefullu it will help others if
you can't use it.
Rick S.
40185
As provided by David:
Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend that you
do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the windshield on
a day by itself.
(0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window using 3M
Fineline (.5 width)
(1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside and
outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as this makes it
easy to pull off.
(2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
(3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
(4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3" ;
with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and the other
is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
(5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place with
the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50" outside the
window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT THROUGH THE LID.
RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
(6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be 30-40
minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
(7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small amount
of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in place with
"fingers" at the preplanned locations.
(8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off later. then
PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
(9) allow to cure 24 hours.
(10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass and
sand lightly.
(11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then cover
the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this was the
Glastar procedure.) Remember to pull the tape before the layered glass
sets up. The windscreen on the RV10 requires a different layering of
glass on the aluminum.
(12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
(13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
(14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally get
epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely removed
using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral spirits and
acetone. Have it handy.
(15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that does
not come off when finally removing the protective covering before
flight.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Silpruf for window adhesive |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Perry Casson <pcasson@sasktel.net>
Has anyone tried GE Silpruf to install the windows in their -10 yet?
Following the instructions in a video from http://www.airlinktech.com we
used it to install the windows in my Glastar and it's has a nice long setup
time and the end results look professional. From the reports of fast setup,
mess and cracks from the Van's technique I'm pretty sure I'll use go back to
this technique again.
Perry Casson
Message 7
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|
This is the stuff we use for release material.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/vb7025.php
Message 8
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| Subject: | List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
> Because everybody make an opinion ,here is mine,from the boating industries,give
a try at 3M 5200,
the toughest products you can handle ,in 4 to 5 days not even the knife go trough,and
still flexible for vibrations.this products adhere even under water,it
come in the fast cure version.
you can purchase the small tube and a scrap of plexi and give a try,.
only my opinion,
Hugo,40456
do not archive
> From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> Date: 2006/06/14 Wed AM 11:29:22 EDT
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
Tough indeed but know where to use it, I did use it to have my defrost
air channel glued to the glare shield, not a good example as the T you
build cracked after 200hrs (and several time getting the glare shield in
and out), however the turbulators on my aluminum wings are still rock
solid with the 5200 as well as my sidepanel covers on the door. I did
glue the windows with silpruf and I'm more then happy as well as I think
the 5200 is quite heavy. Oh and yes, this is on a Glastar too.
br
Werner
gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>
>
>>Because everybody make an opinion ,here is mine,from the boating industries,give
a try at 3M 5200,
>>
>>
>the toughest products you can handle ,in 4 to 5 days not even the knife go trough,and
still flexible for vibrations.this products adhere even under water,it
come in the fast cure version.
>you can purchase the small tube and a scrap of plexi and give a try,.
>only my opinion,
>Hugo,40456
>do not archive
>
>
>>From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>>Date: 2006/06/14 Wed AM 11:29:22 EDT
>>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Phil Hall <phil@asibuildings.com>
Hugo,
Can you paint over it?
Phil
40122
At 12:32 PM 6/14/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
>
>
>> Because everybody make an opinion ,here is mine,from the boating
industries,give a try at 3M 5200,
>the toughest products you can handle ,in 4 to 5 days not even the knife go
trough,and still flexible for vibrations.this products adhere even under
water,it come in the fast cure version.
>you can purchase the small tube and a scrap of plexi and give a try,.
>only my opinion,
>Hugo,40456
>do not archive
>> From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>> Date: 2006/06/14 Wed AM 11:29:22 EDT
>> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
3M 5200 is bullet proof material. One problem might be if the window ever
gets damaged and needs to be replaced, look out!
I used this product along with screws to hold in my 15 foot out riggers on
my Grady White. After five years with saltwater and sunlight, it still
loked great.
Do not archive
JG
>From: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 12:32:19 -0400
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
>
>
> > Because everybody make an opinion ,here is mine,from the boating
>industries,give a try at 3M 5200,
>the toughest products you can handle ,in 4 to 5 days not even the knife go
>trough,and still flexible for vibrations.this products adhere even under
>water,it come in the fast cure version.
>you can purchase the small tube and a scrap of plexi and give a try,.
>only my opinion,
>Hugo,40456
>do not archive
> > From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> > Date: 2006/06/14 Wed AM 11:29:22 EDT
> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Silpruf for window adhesive |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Dave Saylor" <Dave@aircraftersllc.com>
Perry,
Have you had any luck painting the silpruf?
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Perry Casson
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Silpruf for window adhesive
--> RV10-List message posted by: Perry Casson <pcasson@sasktel.net>
Has anyone tried GE Silpruf to install the windows in their -10 yet?
Following the instructions in a video from http://www.airlinktech.com we
used it to install the windows in my Glastar and it's has a nice long setup
time and the end results look professional. From the reports of fast setup,
mess and cracks from the Van's technique I'm pretty sure I'll use go back to
this technique again.
Perry Casson
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
> yes ,it is.allow 10 to 20 days ,when it complete the dring process.
hugo
> From: Phil Hall <phil@asibuildings.com>
> Date: 2006/06/14 Wed AM 06:20:34 EDT
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Phil Hall <phil@asibuildings.com>
>
> Hugo,
>
> Can you paint over it?
>
> Phil
> 40122
>
> At 12:32 PM 6/14/2006 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >
> >> Because everybody make an opinion ,here is mine,from the boating
> industries,give a try at 3M 5200,
> >the toughest products you can handle ,in 4 to 5 days not even the knife go
> trough,and still flexible for vibrations.this products adhere even under
> water,it come in the fast cure version.
> >you can purchase the small tube and a scrap of plexi and give a try,.
> >only my opinion,
> >Hugo,40456
> >do not archive
> >> From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> >> Date: 2006/06/14 Wed AM 11:29:22 EDT
> >> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
Yes you rigth is tough,but you can use 4200 wich is a less hard and easy to remove,in
my opinion I rather have a wind (blow out) proof window and worry later
if the window or the windshiel need to be remove,if you by any chance go in that
problem of replace the windshield,I thinks clean the condor's feathers from
the back seat will be the mayor task
Hugo
do not archive
>
> From: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
> Date: 2006/06/14 Wed PM 01:04:58 EDT
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Werner Schneider <glastar@gmx.net>
>
> Tough indeed but know where to use it, I did use it to have my defrost
> air channel glued to the glare shield, not a good example as the T you
> build cracked after 200hrs (and several time getting the glare shield in
> and out), however the turbulators on my aluminum wings are still rock
> solid with the 5200 as well as my sidepanel covers on the door. I did
> glue the windows with silpruf and I'm more then happy as well as I think
> the 5200 is quite heavy. Oh and yes, this is on a Glastar too.
>
> br
>
> Werner
>
> gommone7@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> >--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Because everybody make an opinion ,here is mine,from the boating industries,give
a try at 3M 5200,
> >>
> >>
> >the toughest products you can handle ,in 4 to 5 days not even the knife go trough,and
still flexible for vibrations.this products adhere even under water,it
come in the fast cure version.
> >you can purchase the small tube and a scrap of plexi and give a try,.
> >only my opinion,
> >Hugo,40456
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >>From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> >>Date: 2006/06/14 Wed AM 11:29:22 EDT
> >>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> >>Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Trailing Edges |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
After reading all the post that came after this email, I can't help but
wonder whether the flap brackets could be somehow accidentally mixed up so
that rt became left and left became right. I mean, backwards. Because of
the computer designing and hole seperation spacing, some of the kit parts
fit together even when they are backwards.
I am no where near this part of the project so forgive me if this is so
stupid of a posible answer to the problem.
JG.
Do Not Archive
>From: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trailing Edges
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 17:23:00 -0700
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
>
>Guys,
>
> Again, I agree with everything you guys are saying that are possible
>reasons for the twist in the flaps and the bulging of the nose skin of the
>flaps below the bottom wing skin.
>
> Because of the geometry of the way the flaps move when extended, they
>move away from the wing. I noticed on one flap/aileron alignment that the
>trailing edges match up perfectly when the flap is resting its nose against
>the back spar. As Chris said, the flaps are reflexed in their neutral
>position. However, the bottom of the flap bulges below the skin. I can
>move the flap just a hair and the bulging flap problem goes away (because
>of the geometry). But then the trailing edges don't line up.
>
> So, maybe the flap nose skin is not up tight against the nose ribs.
>Maybe the spar is so twisted that it forces the nose ribs downward. Either
>way, I can't accept it.
>
> So, I will build 2 new flaps. This time, I will deviate from the plans
>just a little. I will pin the skeleton on the wing first and check
>alignment. I may then clamp the aileron and flap trailing edges together
>in alignment with some very long straight edges. Then, I may even rivet
>the sucker together right on the wing. That way, it should turn out fairly
>well in alignment. The wing should make a perfect jig for holding the
>skeleton in place while riveting.
>
> What do you guys think? Think it can be done that way?
>
> Tim, I am very curious if you have any of these flap problems that I
>have been talking about.
>
>zack
>
>--------
>RV8 #80125
>RV10 # 40512
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=40834#40834
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Carey" <markacarey@msn.com>
I used the 2" fiberglass method and faired it in. My technical advisor
warned me this would happen with only the microballoons or bondo.
>From: "Mark & Gina Steffensen" <steffco1@comcast.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 22:24:59 -0400
>
>Today I asked Van's regarding cracking between the fiberglass window frames
>and the Plexiglas.
>
>Van's told me that they were not aware that this is an issue. I saw this
>cracking for myself on several RV10's at Sun in Fun.
>
>I am getting close to installing my windows, has anyone devised an
>alternative method to help prevent the cracking?
>
>It appears to me that this anomaly it is due to the different expansion and
>contracting properties of the fiberglass and Plexiglas.
>
>I am planning on having a 1/16 gap between the plexi and window frames,
>install windows with the Weld-10. Next I am planning on installing 2 inch
>fiberglass tape around the perimeter of the windows overlapping the
>junction...Next fill and sand and fair into the fuselage lid and or
>doors...
>
>Any thoughts.....Mark
>
>Mark Steffensen
>Atlanta GA
>
>RV8A Sold
>RV10 Soon
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: rv10builder <rv10builder@bellsouth.net>
David,
Where can I find the "picture(s)" of the process?
Brian
#40308 canopy
David McNeill wrote:
> Also if anyone wants to see the finished product, my Glastar N48007
> will be parked in the homebuilt area Thursday morning through Saturday
> night at OSH.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Rick <mailto:ricksked@earthlink.net>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 13, 2006 9:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise?
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
> Mark,
>
> Mat be too late for you but Davis McNeill provided this tidbit
> that is uesed with grat sucess on Glasairs...hopefullu it will
> help others if you can't use it.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
>
> As provided by David:
>
>
> Although the procedure takes only about an hour to accomplish per
> window, setup and planning is substantially more.. I recommend
> that you do one window to get the procs correct and plan to do the
> windshield on a day by itself.
>
>
>
> (0) tape off the inside and outside flange area of the window
> using 3M Fineline (.5 width)
>
> (1) then signstrip blue on the center areas to protect the inside
> and outside of the window . Be generous when painting it on as
> this makes it easy to pull off.
>
> (2) sand the inside/outside edges of the window in the area of the
> flange to roughen the glass for adhesion.
>
> (3) sand the flanges of the lid; CLEAN ALL SANDED EDGES WITH ACETONE
>
> (4) prepare a set of aluminum "fingers" . Strips of .080 1" by 3"
> ; with a slight bend in the center. one end gets a #30 hole and
> the other is adequately taped. each is numbered. See the picture.
>
> (5) Trim the window to fit the frame and temporarily hold in place
> with the NUMBERED "fingers". Clecoes should be place about .50"
> outside the window. Drill #30 only through the external layer; NOT
> THROUGH THE LID. RETAPE OFF THE EDGES 3M FINELINE TAPE .
>
> (6) prepare a mixture of epoxy with chopped fibers and cabosil.
> Consistency should be peanut butter. Potlife should plan to be
> 30-40 minutes. We refrigerated it to further slow the cure.
>
> (7) putty the lid flanges, wet the window flanges with a small
> amount of catalyzed epoxy and place window in frame; holding in
> place with "fingers" at the preplanned locations.
>
> (8) inside person should be wiping excess putty away with a 50-50
> mixture of mineral spirirts and acetone; outside person should be
> smoothing putty on outside flange. excess will be sanded off
> later. then PULL THE TAPES BEFORE IT CURES.
>
> (9) allow to cure 24 hours.
>
> (10) Inside lid , flange should be finished . If rough, tape glass
> and sand lightly.
>
> (11) outside the lid, RETAPE the edge at the flange line, then
> cover the flange with two 1" layers of glass (E-7782?). (Note this
> was the Glastar procedure.) *Remember to pull the tape before the
> layered glass sets up.* The windscreen on the RV10 requires a
> different layering of glass on the aluminum.
>
> (12) Retape the edge , then sand and fill external flange area for
> paint. The sanding can feather into the edge of the tape.
>
> (13) when painted , paint should cover the flange.
>
> (14) MUST BE DONE BEFORE THE MIXTURE CURES. If you accidentally
> get epoxy on the Plexiglas during the process, it can be safely
> removed using a clean cloth and the 50-50 mixture of mineral
> spirits and acetone. *Have it handy.*
>
> (15) 50-50 mixture is also good for removing any signstrip that
> does not come off when finally removing the protective covering
> before flight.
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: L Aune <lcaune@cablelan.net>
We had a similar problem working on the Sikorsky S76 tailboom. It
had bondo in all the seams and always cracked the paint. Our
solution was to dig out all of the brittle bondo and run a bead of
Pro Seal aka PRC which is much more flexible and sticks like snot to
a blanket. The new paint job looked great for many tears. Pro Seal
is also a good base for paint, especially the good flexible types
like Endura or PPG.
Len Aune 40381
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RV10 Window Junction Cracks - Any Advise? |
After struggling with 4 windows and getting not so attractive fillets, I am
considering using Sikaflex for the windscreen. A friend of mine used it for
his
RV-8 and it is very strong. Sikaflex also has a bit of flex when it is dry
and it is so easy to work with - mask the edges with electrical tape for nic
e
sharp edges. You don't have to worry about it skinning over and trapping you
r
tape before you pull it off. And based on it's durability when used on boats
exposed to continuous salt water and sun it appears it will last. Just one m
ore
option...
Incidentally, I flew N220RV today for some transition training with Mike
Seager. Maybe I missed something, but I didn't notice any window cracking on
it.
More importantly, the -10 flew beautifully. I am even more happy with my
decision to build one after today. I certainly learned a lot and I'm lookin
g
forward to flying my own. The take off and landing technique is a bit differ
ent from
what I've been taught in a Cherokee. I highly recommend spending the time an
d
money to fly with Mike.
-Jim
40134 - Doors/Windows/FW forward/Instrument panel/Wiring/Closing up wings...
In a message dated 6/14/2006 8:41:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
rvbuilder@sausen.net writes:
Couple of things. Anyone consider using Sikaflex. It=99s very popula
r with
the rest of the RV crowd for bonding the canopy with the frame and would be
easier to work with. Could you use regular Dacron peel-ply rather than Tefl
on
cloth? Don=99t know if that would end up releasing or not.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
Do Not Archive
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