Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - Re: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time (Tom Gesele)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
3. 06:21 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (John Testement)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (Jesse Saint)
5. 07:59 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (Ted French)
6. 08:17 AM - Re: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time (Michael Schipper)
7. 10:14 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (Jesse Saint)
8. 11:35 AM - Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (James K Hovis)
9. 11:59 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (John W. Cox)
10. 12:25 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (John Jessen)
11. 12:30 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Phil Hall)
12. 12:30 PM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
13. 12:41 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
14. 01:08 PM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (John Jessen)
15. 01:21 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Tim Olson)
16. 01:43 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Bill DeRouchey)
17. 02:05 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Chris , Susie Darcy)
18. 04:30 PM - Door fitting (rv10builder)
19. 04:38 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
20. 05:20 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Pascal)
21. 06:00 PM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions (John W. Cox)
22. 06:43 PM - Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining (Bill Reining)
23. 06:53 PM - Re: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time (jerry petersen)
24. 07:29 PM - covers (David McNeill)
25. 09:02 PM - Re: covers (John Testement)
26. 09:06 PM - Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining (Robert G. Wright)
27. 09:11 PM - Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining (John Dunne)
28. 09:14 PM - (John Dunne)
29. 10:17 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (linn Walters)
30. 11:04 PM - Re: Door fitting (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tom Gesele <tgesele@optonline.net>
I buit a -6 to the point of needing to hang engine/install avionics and am
currently at the exact same place on the -10 so my perspective is the
construction of the kit as Van's supplied.
On the -6, I had roughly 2500 hours in and on the -10 I've got 1150 in. My
guess is engine and avionics will be roughly the same between the two. Both
kits were slow builds, the -6 was pre-punched emp/wings. Keep in mind that
the experience gained bulding the -6 translated into substantially faster
build time on the -10 with far fewer mistakes.
Hope this helps.
- Tom Gesele #40473
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William
DeLacey
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 11:20 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: "William DeLacey" <whd721@msn.com>
I would like comments from any repeat builders as to the comparison of build
times for the RV-10 verses any other previous RV they built. Comments like
20% more or half as much would be helpful.
whd721@msn.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Deems,
One of the local builders here didn't install the forward deck until
he was a couple weeks from flying. Why? Thank a certain panel builder
for their timely delivery. ;-) He had everything done, hung, installed
except for the windscreen, cowl, and anything that would attach to the
deck.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 9:46 PM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I
don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as
possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as
possible.
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
sub-panel? What?
c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
installing the upper fwd fuse?
2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
cover only clecoed vs riveted?
3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the
Fuse?
I appreciate any input you might have.
THANKS
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing Fuse / Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 3
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| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
Bill, can you post photos of the connector locations. Your description was
helpful. Thanks.
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com"jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Finish kit - gear legs and wheels
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:56 AM
questions
I approached the fwd upper fuselage, panel, and cabin in the following order
and in hindsight it worked well.
Before the panel & fwd upper fuse were riveted to the lower fuselage I
installed avionics, glass PFD, autopilot, engine monitor, voltage regulator,
switch, and map box while the unit was on the bench. Three wire bundles
[engine bay, left side run, right side run] were collected with long tails
and each wire labeled with masking tape. A 37pin Amp plug was mounted to the
sub-panel and all panel wiring passes through this plug. My fuse box, from
West Marine, was installed on the sub-panel with only three fuses on the
outer panel to shed load during an electrical emergency.
Rivet the unit to the fuselage and run the bundles into the engine
compartment and down the left and right sides. Now two work areas can be
addressed independently - engine compartment and cabin. The wires on the
side were either spliced or routed to one of my three connectors [L & R
wing, tail].
The cabin was permanently installed next. I do not think the doors can be
fitted properly unless the fiberglass cabin is in its final resting place.
The doors are seated into the cabin opening by beveling both/either edges
and small changes in the outer shell can have big effects on the door fit.
Before I cemented the front windscreen, I installed the GPS antenna far
forward in line with the co-pilot. Note that I also left vertical space so
the antenna could be replaced with a newer antenna that supports WAAS.
Windows, cabin doors, and FWF were next. Last item riveted were the two top
tail skins. Leaving this to last was a big help routing wires through the
tail.
Bill DeRouchey - HYPERLINK "mailto:billderou@yahoo.com"billderou@yahoo.com
N939SB, Kit #40029
Fly next week
Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
I'd like any input regarding the installation of the above items. I
don't bend like I used to and want to avoid as many contortions as
possible, to that end I'd like to leave the fuse opened up as long as
possible.
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
--
Message 4
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| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
sub-panel? What?
c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
installing the upper fwd fuse?
Jesse: I just put in one big hole for the radio stack, then used the bottom
of the sub-panel to hold adel clamps that all of my wires go through, then
put holes and snap bushings in the sub-panel to route wires through to the
firewall and down to the sides of the plane. I have my instrument cooling
fan, power distribution bus block, MAP Sensor, Ammeter Shunt, and dimmer
boards all on the sub-panel. That makes it really nice to work on the
wiring just by removing the panel. Also, I have the crossbar under the
instrument panel (although removeable with screws) there as an armrest
if/when needed. In N256H we almost completely removed the sub-panel and
then used angles to stiffen it back up, but then we had no good place to
mount all of the things mentioned above. To each his own, but this worked
great for us.
2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
cover only clecoed vs riveted?
Jesse: You can leave it there for as long as you want, but it will limit the
amount of work that you can do. You may be able to fit the doors safely,
but I don't know it I recommend it. Fitting the doors is a pretty important
part. I guess, if you were to go ahead and bolt/screw the cabin top in
where the door goes, then cleco it where all the pop rivets go, it should be
pretty good. What are you trying to avoid by leaving it off. It is
possible to install the upper forward fuse section after the cabin top is in
place, although it is not quite as easy.
3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the Fuse?
Jesse: I am sure it would be a fair bit easier with the cover off, but much
safer with it on, because you really want to have it in the exact form that
it will stay in before gluing the windows in IMHO.
Hope this helps.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
--
Message 5
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| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Ted French" <ted_french@telus.net>
I installed the forward fuse assembly, but left the top skin off. Everything
will be installed behind the panel in such a way that I can remove it to
rivit the top skin on. As much panel wiring as possible is done on the
bench.
Do Not Archive
Ted French
RV-10 wiring
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: July 13, 2006 6:26 AM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
sub-panel? What?
c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
installing the upper fwd fuse?
Jesse: I just put in one big hole for the radio stack, then used the bottom
of the sub-panel to hold adel clamps that all of my wires go through, then
put holes and snap bushings in the sub-panel to route wires through to the
firewall and down to the sides of the plane. I have my instrument cooling
fan, power distribution bus block, MAP Sensor, Ammeter Shunt, and dimmer
boards all on the sub-panel. That makes it really nice to work on the
wiring just by removing the panel. Also, I have the crossbar under the
instrument panel (although removeable with screws) there as an armrest
if/when needed. In N256H we almost completely removed the sub-panel and
then used angles to stiffen it back up, but then we had no good place to
mount all of the things mentioned above. To each his own, but this worked
great for us.
2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
cover only clecoed vs riveted?
Jesse: You can leave it there for as long as you want, but it will limit the
amount of work that you can do. You may be able to fit the doors safely,
but I don't know it I recommend it. Fitting the doors is a pretty important
part. I guess, if you were to go ahead and bolt/screw the cabin top in
where the door goes, then cleco it where all the pop rivets go, it should be
pretty good. What are you trying to avoid by leaving it off. It is
possible to install the upper forward fuse section after the cabin top is in
place, although it is not quite as easy.
3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the Fuse?
Jesse: I am sure it would be a fair bit easier with the cover off, but much
safer with it on, because you really want to have it in the exact form that
it will stay in before gluing the windows in IMHO.
Hope this helps.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
--
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Schipper <mike@learningplanet.com>
Compared to the RV-9A, the RV-10 kit is very similar. The
instructions, however, are far superior so far.
It took about 1500 hours to complete my RV-9A slow build. Given the
larger size of the RV-10 I figure it will take about 25% more time.
The quickbuild would save a lot of time, but I enjoy building.
Mike Schipper
RV-9A - N63MS - Flying
RV-10 #40576 - Working on Empennage
http://www.rvten.com
On Jul 12, 2006, at 10:20 PM, William DeLacey wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "William DeLacey" <whd721@msn.com>
>
> I would like comments from any repeat builders as to the comparison
> of build times for the RV-10 verses any other previous RV they
> built. Comments like 20% more or half as much would be helpful.
>
> whd721@msn.com
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
One big part of this equation is that installing it is only part of the
decision. Working on it, upgrading, modifying is another huge part. The
more stuff you put in a place that will be hard to get to, the more you may
end up hating yourself down the road. Personally, I like the idea of being
able to install the entire panel, including wiring runs for the whole
fuselage, after the plane structure is complete. If I can get there in the
first place, then I can get there to fix it. It might not look quite as
neat under there when I am done, or quite as clean as having everything on
forward side of the sub-panel, but I guarantee you are going to have fits
when (not if) it comes time to change something.
This brings up another issue. For those who are using Van's standard panel,
cut the thing into at least 2 pieces. That thing is a very tight fit in one
piece, and you are guaranteed to scratch stuff getting it in and out. The
easier it is to take out, the less time you will spend on your back working
under there and the more time you will spend sitting in the nice comfortable
seat working back there with the panel removed. This is just IMHO, but I
have done two now, two different ways, and I am realizing how much of a pain
it is to work under that panel.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted French
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:54 AM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Ted French" <ted_french@telus.net>
I installed the forward fuse assembly, but left the top skin off. Everything
will be installed behind the panel in such a way that I can remove it to
rivit the top skin on. As much panel wiring as possible is done on the
bench.
Do Not Archive
Ted French
RV-10 wiring
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: July 13, 2006 6:26 AM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
1. What things can I go ahead and attach to the instrument sub-panel
while it's 'transportable' i.e not riveted to the Fuse?
a. Other than the modifications to open up areas for avionics
mounting, what other access holes have builders put in the sub-panel?
b. has anybody installed anything on the FORWARD side of the
sub-panel? What?
c. Any other recommendations for sub-panel work before
installing the upper fwd fuse?
Jesse: I just put in one big hole for the radio stack, then used the bottom
of the sub-panel to hold adel clamps that all of my wires go through, then
put holes and snap bushings in the sub-panel to route wires through to the
firewall and down to the sides of the plane. I have my instrument cooling
fan, power distribution bus block, MAP Sensor, Ammeter Shunt, and dimmer
boards all on the sub-panel. That makes it really nice to work on the
wiring just by removing the panel. Also, I have the crossbar under the
instrument panel (although removeable with screws) there as an armrest
if/when needed. In N256H we almost completely removed the sub-panel and
then used angles to stiffen it back up, but then we had no good place to
mount all of the things mentioned above. To each his own, but this worked
great for us.
2. How long can I leave the Cabin cover drilled/clecoed' before riveting
it to the fuse? can the doors be(accurately) fit to the cabin w/ the
cover only clecoed vs riveted?
Jesse: You can leave it there for as long as you want, but it will limit the
amount of work that you can do. You may be able to fit the doors safely,
but I don't know it I recommend it. Fitting the doors is a pretty important
part. I guess, if you were to go ahead and bolt/screw the cabin top in
where the door goes, then cleco it where all the pop rivets go, it should be
pretty good. What are you trying to avoid by leaving it off. It is
possible to install the upper forward fuse section after the cabin top is in
place, although it is not quite as easy.
3. Is it easier to install the windows with the cover on or off of the Fuse?
Jesse: I am sure it would be a fair bit easier with the cover off, but much
safer with it on, because you really want to have it in the exact form that
it will stay in before gluing the windows in IMHO.
Hope this helps.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
--
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
--
Message 8
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| Subject: | Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I actually
make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post to you
here is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would be if
one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
question would probably lead to many different answers since each airplane
built is a little different from the next based on builder preferences and
such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while his
buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking
is a moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR
capable (i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine
monitor). If I can reasonably assure the household finance minister that I
can get a good return on my investment, it might sway her towards my
thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished
a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
birds haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
Message 9
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| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Jesse & Ted
As an aged (56+), height (74"), and weight (240#), tri-focal impaired
builder - your idea needs repeated illumination.
Always ask, "How will I be servicing this item down the road". Dan has
done a great job on his site of the many changes, improvements and
repairs which are seldom thought out in the quest for "Just Building It"
and "blindly following the instructions".
Partial panel (sub panel) design, service lengths on wire runs, style of
connectors/disconnections, attachment points and process to ease of
repair are the source of most cussing at the airlines each night. Those
damned teenage computer hackers sitting at 24" flat screen LCD monitors
with 1680x1050 resolution who design aircraft subsystems with no regard
to servicing. We just smile and say "Oh yeh, it all pays by the hour -
not the piece". As a kit builder, it is tough to fault oneself for
moving blindly into the future of serviceability after choosing to just
go blindly. We usually only think about oil changes and refueling -
right?
At your age, you should spent time just flying and pondering what it
will be like in 40 years doing the servicing ;-).
John - KUAO
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:07 AM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
One big part of this equation is that installing it is only part of the
decision. Working on it, upgrading, modifying is another huge part.
The
more stuff you put in a place that will be hard to get to, the more you
may
end up hating yourself down the road. Personally, I like the idea of
being
able to install the entire panel, including wiring runs for the whole
fuselage, after the plane structure is complete. If I can get there in
the
first place, then I can get there to fix it. It might not look quite as
neat under there when I am done, or quite as clean as having everything
on
forward side of the sub-panel, but I guarantee you are going to have
fits
when (not if) it comes time to change something.
This brings up another issue. For those who are using Van's standard
panel,
cut the thing into at least 2 pieces. That thing is a very tight fit in
one
piece, and you are guaranteed to scratch stuff getting it in and out.
The
easier it is to take out, the less time you will spend on your back
working
under there and the more time you will spend sitting in the nice
comfortable
seat working back there with the panel removed. This is just IMHO, but
I
have done two now, two different ways, and I am realizing how much of a
pain
it is to work under that panel.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
Message 10
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| Subject: | Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
I'd bet Tim Olson could sell his for more than $220k. But, I like the paint
scheme. Or, just take her down to a Cirrus dealer and show her the price
tag. Then, explain to her how the -10 is a better plane in terms of:
useful load, economy, comfort in the back and front, overall costs, etc,
etc. I think that she'd get the idea pretty fast.
John Jessen
do not archive
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James K Hovis
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I actually
make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post to you
here is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would be if
one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
question would probably lead to many different answers since each airplane
built is a little different from the next based on builder preferences and
such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while his
buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking
is a moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR
capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine
monitor). If I can reasonably assure the household finance minister that I
can get a good return on my investment, it might sway her towards my
thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished
a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
birds haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Phil Hall <phil@asibuildings.com>
James,
I have a 10 that is close to being done and have $125,000 invested in it and I
have to sell it. I will sell it for $125,000. I0-540, MT prop, dual GRT
EFIS,
etc. The only thing left to purchase is upholstery and paint
Phil
40122
888-583-5155
At 01:28 PM 7/13/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
> As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I actually
> make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post to you
> here is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would be if
> one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
> question would probably lead to many different answers since each airplane
> built is a little different from the next based on builder preferences and
> such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while his
buddy
> a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking is a
> moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR
> capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine
> monitor). If I can reasonably assure the household finance minister that I
> can get a good return on my investment, it might sway her towards my
> thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished
> a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
birds
> haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> James K. Hovis
Message 12
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| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
As a "computer hacker sitting at flat screen LCD monitors with 1680x1050
resolution who design aircraft subsystems", I feel hurt . . . : )
TDT
40025
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:56 PM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Jesse & Ted
As an aged (56+), height (74"), and weight (240#), tri-focal impaired
builder - your idea needs repeated illumination.
Always ask, "How will I be servicing this item down the road". Dan has
done a great job on his site of the many changes, improvements and
repairs which are seldom thought out in the quest for "Just Building It"
and "blindly following the instructions".
Partial panel (sub panel) design, service lengths on wire runs, style of
connectors/disconnections, attachment points and process to ease of
repair are the source of most cussing at the airlines each night. Those
damned teenage computer hackers sitting at 24" flat screen LCD monitors
with 1680x1050 resolution who design aircraft subsystems with no regard
to servicing. We just smile and say "Oh yeh, it all pays by the hour -
not the piece". As a kit builder, it is tough to fault oneself for
moving blindly into the future of serviceability after choosing to just
go blindly. We usually only think about oil changes and refueling -
right?
At your age, you should spent time just flying and pondering what it
will be like in 40 years doing the servicing ;-).
John - KUAO
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:07 AM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
One big part of this equation is that installing it is only part of the
decision. Working on it, upgrading, modifying is another huge part.
The
more stuff you put in a place that will be hard to get to, the more you
may
end up hating yourself down the road. Personally, I like the idea of
being
able to install the entire panel, including wiring runs for the whole
fuselage, after the plane structure is complete. If I can get there in
the
first place, then I can get there to fix it. It might not look quite as
neat under there when I am done, or quite as clean as having everything
on
forward side of the sub-panel, but I guarantee you are going to have
fits
when (not if) it comes time to change something.
This brings up another issue. For those who are using Van's standard
panel,
cut the thing into at least 2 pieces. That thing is a very tight fit in
one
piece, and you are guaranteed to scratch stuff getting it in and out.
The
easier it is to take out, the less time you will spend on your back
working
under there and the more time you will spend sitting in the nice
comfortable
seat working back there with the panel removed. This is just IMHO, but
I
have done two now, two different ways, and I am realizing how much of a
pain
it is to work under that panel.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
Message 13
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| Subject: | Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend" <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
That's a good deal . . .
TDT
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Hall
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:09 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Phil Hall <phil@asibuildings.com>
James,
I have a 10 that is close to being done and have $125,000 invested in it
and I
have to sell it. I will sell it for $125,000. I0-540, MT prop, dual
GRT
EFIS,
etc. The only thing left to purchase is upholstery and paint
Phil
40122
888-583-5155
At 01:28 PM 7/13/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>
> As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
actually
> make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post to
you
> here is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would
be if
> one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of
> question would probably lead to many different answers since each
airplane
> built is a little different from the next based on builder preferences
and
> such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while
his
buddy
> a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking
is a
> moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR
> capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe one or two EFIS displays and
engine
> monitor). If I can reasonably assure the household finance minister
that I
> can get a good return on my investment, it might sway her towards my
> thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially
finished
> a/c for $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since
finished
birds
> haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> James K. Hovis
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Anyone trying to make these vunderbar panels tilt down or slide out or
somehow easily removable for future repair or rewire work? Got some
examples you're willing to share. And for those who have been silent all
this time while building the stealth OSH winner, could you please consider
sharing so others can benefit?
Many thanks
John Jessen
-328 (about ready to resume building again, now that the rental is back
together)
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:09 PM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
--> <Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
As a "computer hacker sitting at flat screen LCD monitors with 1680x1050
resolution who design aircraft subsystems", I feel hurt . . . : )
TDT
40025
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 2:56 PM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Jesse & Ted
As an aged (56+), height (74"), and weight (240#), tri-focal impaired
builder - your idea needs repeated illumination.
Always ask, "How will I be servicing this item down the road". Dan has done
a great job on his site of the many changes, improvements and repairs which
are seldom thought out in the quest for "Just Building It"
and "blindly following the instructions".
Partial panel (sub panel) design, service lengths on wire runs, style of
connectors/disconnections, attachment points and process to ease of repair
are the source of most cussing at the airlines each night. Those damned
teenage computer hackers sitting at 24" flat screen LCD monitors with
1680x1050 resolution who design aircraft subsystems with no regard to
servicing. We just smile and say "Oh yeh, it all pays by the hour - not the
piece". As a kit builder, it is tough to fault oneself for moving blindly
into the future of serviceability after choosing to just go blindly. We
usually only think about oil changes and refueling - right?
At your age, you should spent time just flying and pondering what it will be
like in 40 years doing the servicing ;-).
John - KUAO
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:07 AM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
One big part of this equation is that installing it is only part of the
decision. Working on it, upgrading, modifying is another huge part.
The
more stuff you put in a place that will be hard to get to, the more you may
end up hating yourself down the road. Personally, I like the idea of being
able to install the entire panel, including wiring runs for the whole
fuselage, after the plane structure is complete. If I can get there in the
first place, then I can get there to fix it. It might not look quite as
neat under there when I am done, or quite as clean as having everything on
forward side of the sub-panel, but I guarantee you are going to have fits
when (not if) it comes time to change something.
This brings up another issue. For those who are using Van's standard panel,
cut the thing into at least 2 pieces. That thing is a very tight fit in one
piece, and you are guaranteed to scratch stuff getting it in and out.
The
easier it is to take out, the less time you will spend on your back working
under there and the more time you will spend sitting in the nice comfortable
seat working back there with the panel removed. This is just IMHO, but I
have done two now, two different ways, and I am realizing how much of a pain
it is to work under that panel.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
No, I couldn't.....my wife would kill me. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
> I'd bet Tim Olson could sell his for more than $220k. But, I like the
> paint scheme. Or, just take her down to a Cirrus dealer and show her
> the price tag. Then, explain to her how the -10 is a better plane in
> terms of: useful load, economy, comfort in the back and front, overall
> costs, etc, etc. I think that she'd get the idea pretty fast.
>
> John Jessen
>
> do not archive
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *James K Hovis
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
>
> As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
> actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to
> post to you here is what you think the relative value for a completed
> RV-10 would be if one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I
> know that type of question would probably lead to many different answers
> since each airplane built is a little different from the next based on
> builder preferences and such. For example, one guy could build a
> strictly VFR machine while his buddy a few hangers away has a hard
> IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine
> (235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges
> with maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can
> reasonably assure the household finance minister that I can get a good
> return on my investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've
> seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished a/c for
> $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished birds
> haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> James K. Hovis
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
James-
The decision to purchase/build an RV-10 is a slam dunk. Its a great plane and,
properly equipped, will hold its value until you decide its time to convert
it back into cash. I know of no other comparable airplane from a cost/benefit
viewpoint.
The real problem is how to convince the finance minister that she will benefit
from the endeaver and the temporary storage of money can be traded for a great
lifestyle enhancement.
Suggest you drop phrases such as "good return on investment" or any link between
investment and aircraft. It may get the aircraft in the garage but will poison
all that follows.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, #40029, billderou@yahoo.com
fly next week
do not archive
James K Hovis <james.k.hovis@gmail.com> wrote:
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I actually
make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to post to you here
is what you think the relative value for a completed RV-10 would be if one was
to sell their aircraft on the open market? I know that type of question would
probably lead to many different answers since each airplane built is a little
different from the next based on builder preferences and such. For example,
one guy could build a strictly VFR machine while his buddy a few hangers away
has a hard IFR capable machine. What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine
(235 to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with
maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably assure
the household finance minister that I can get a good return on my investment,
it might sway her towards my thinking. I've seen one RV-10 offered for $220,000
and a partially finished a/c for $175,000.
I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished birds haven't been flying
long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
John you are right as some are pooring a small fortune into these toys.
Over here things are a bit diferent ,small population etc. So at prices
over 200k AUS people will have a huge choice of aircraft ofcourse second
hand but most were not built in someones shed.
Like our 6 that we sold we are building the 10 as light as possible and
as cheap as possible with not sacrifising Quality etc. Will be using an
overhauled engine to keep price down. We will not be going IFR so basic
panel maybe 2 Dynons with no back up instruments. Yes lashing out on
glass but thats it. No auto pilot as my wife flys to so one of us is
always hands on or we might as well fly in a airliner (cheaper).
So you can build a quality aircraft VFR at a reasonable price and get
your money back. We doubled our money on the 6 which was light and
simple but I think we can only get %30 more than cost to build on 10 but
we shall see when we eventuly sell it.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: John Jessen
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:09 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
I'd bet Tim Olson could sell his for more than $220k. But, I like the
paint scheme. Or, just take her down to a Cirrus dealer and show her
the price tag. Then, explain to her how the -10 is a better plane in
terms of: useful load, economy, comfort in the back and front, overall
costs, etc, etc. I think that she'd get the idea pretty fast.
John Jessen
do not archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James K Hovis
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to
post to you here is what you think the relative value for a completed
RV-10 would be if one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I
know that type of question would probably lead to many different answers
since each airplane built is a little different from the next based on
builder preferences and such. For example, one guy could build a
strictly VFR machine while his buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR
capable machine. What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine (235
to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with
maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably
assure the household finance minister that I can get a good return on my
investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've seen one RV-10
offered for $220,000 and a partially finished a/c for $175,000. I'd
assume there hasn't been many sold since finished birds haven't been
flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
Message 18
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|
For those of you that have fitted your doors...
I am finding that a considerable amount of material must be removed from
the door perimeter to get them to where they'll recess into the canopy
opening. By considerable I mean that possibly 1/8 to 1/4 further than
the scribe line is removed. Is this normal? Just being cautious!
Brian
40308 (doors)
http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder
Message 19
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| Subject: | Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
Pointing out the travel time savings for visiting the finance minister's
sisters helped me! "Look, Hon, your sister is only 3 hours away in an
RV-10" . . .
TDT
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thu 7/13/2006 4:38 PM
James-
The decision to purchase/build an RV-10 is a slam dunk. Its a great
plane and, properly equipped, will hold its value until you decide its
time to convert it back into cash. I know of no other comparable
airplane from a cost/benefit viewpoint.
The real problem is how to convince the finance minister that she will
benefit from the endeaver and the temporary storage of money can be
traded for a great lifestyle enhancement.
Suggest you drop phrases such as "good return on investment" or any
link between investment and aircraft. It may get the aircraft in the
garage but will poison all that follows.
Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, #40029, billderou@yahoo.com
fly next week
do not archive
James K Hovis <james.k.hovis@gmail.com> wrote:
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to
post to you here is what you think the relative value for a completed
RV-10 would be if one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I
know that type of question would probably lead to many different answers
since each airplane built is a little different from the next based on
builder preferences and such. For example, one guy could build a
strictly VFR machine while his buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR
capable machine. What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine (235
to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with
maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably
assure the household finance minister that I can get a good return on my
investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've seen one RV-10
offered for $220,000 and a partially finished a/c for $175,000.
I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished birds haven't
been flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
I see you questions are focused on resale. I have a few for you however
(but there are hundreds of questions I assume you have reviewed before
reaching the finacial piece)
- Do you have a strong desire to build a plane? 1250 or so hours of your
life is a lot of time to be spending for good resale value
- Does the finance minister like to fly- will she look forward to going
on trips that take too long to get to by auto?
- Do you understand that the price to build the plane is only the start
of the finances you'll be spending (Taxes, hangar, maintenance (oil,
etc) that can add up to 10% yearly.
With that said, I have not started the building but I have a stronger
desire to build the plane than to fly it and one day will be ready to
sell it for another reason. I have no doubt I'll get my time and money
back when the plane is sold. Simply put my CFO supports the RV-10
because she knows I love to build and have spent 7 years planning and
saving for a kit plane. She also really wants to take trips we simply
can not go on due to distance and time to get there, those two and not
the resale works for me, if your answer to the three questions is "yes"
and your wife understands the implication of your time building, the
resale value should be an easy sale for you. Just don't get caught up
with the money and forget why your building the plane to start with-
unless of course it is as an investment with hopes of making money on
your labor and not for the pleasure it will bring.
Best of success with your propostion to the finance minister
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: James K Hovis
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd like to
post to you here is what you think the relative value for a completed
RV-10 would be if one was to sell their aircraft on the open market? I
know that type of question would probably lead to many different answers
since each airplane built is a little different from the next based on
builder preferences and such. For example, one guy could build a
strictly VFR machine while his buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR
capable machine. What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine (235
to 260 hp) and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with
maybe one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably
assure the household finance minister that I can get a good return on my
investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've seen one RV-10
offered for $220,000 and a partially finished a/c for $175,000. I'd
assume there hasn't been many sold since finished birds haven't been
flying long, but any info from the list is helpful.
Thanks.
James K. Hovis
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fwd fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Tim, have you been upside down for 90 +minutes, trying to reach for
specialty tools, sweating in 115 degree heat and wondering where you sat
that thing-a-me-gig while standing on your head to replace a bad cannon
plug connector?
I can spin an X-Y-Z axis file in turbocad, solidworks or autocad a lot
quicker in my air-conditioned office with a Starbucks double venti bla,
bla, bla and my favorite toon on my MP3. Now I understand that the
Boeing 777 was conceived totally in cyberspace, but I know the mechanics
at Everett that forced those kids to redraw systems a zillion times till
the service component was near perfection. We become those guys.
John
PS - I am looking forward to your completed panel and serviceable
aircraft. Thanks for the picture.
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim
Dawson-Townsend
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 12:09 PM
questions
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Tim Dawson-Townsend"
<Tdawson@Avidyne.com>
As a "computer hacker sitting at flat screen LCD monitors with 1680x1050
resolution who design aircraft subsystems", I feel hurt . . . : )
TDT
40025
Do not archive
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining |
Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done, and what
remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally something that
references the plans, such as: for the wings, sections xx all complete,
steps yy in section zz. need to be finished. I checked the archive, but had
no luck.
Bill Reining - going to OSH all week
Tail cone
40514
N475R reserved
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 vs RV-9 or 7 or 6 build time |
--> RV10-List message posted by: jerry petersen <bldanrv9a@yahoo.com>
The RV-10 is taking at least 25% to 40% longer to
complete than the 9A did. There are always lots of
variables in comparisons but it does take longer.
--- Michael Schipper <mike@learningplanet.com> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Michael Schipper
> <mike@learningplanet.com>
>
> Compared to the RV-9A, the RV-10 kit is very
> similar. The
> instructions, however, are far superior so far.
>
> It took about 1500 hours to complete my RV-9A slow
> build. Given the
> larger size of the RV-10 I figure it will take about
> 25% more time.
> The quickbuild would save a lot of time, but I enjoy
> building.
>
> Mike Schipper
> RV-9A - N63MS - Flying
> RV-10 #40576 - Working on Empennage
> http://www.rvten.com
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2006, at 10:20 PM, William DeLacey wrote:
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "William DeLacey"
> <whd721@msn.com>
> >
> > I would like comments from any repeat builders as
> to the comparison
> > of build times for the RV-10 verses any other
> previous RV they
> > built. Comments like 20% more or half as much
> would be helpful.
> >
> > whd721@msn.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
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In section 35 of the plans, there is a F-1042G-R and -L but below those
"wire covers" is a rectangular area where most of my wiring appears.
Does Van's supply or do we just fabricate?
Message 25
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You can order these from Vans. They also come in their wiring kit (which I
don't recommend unless you are doing a very basic panel). The wiring kit
plans are available separately (to get part numbers from). Tim O. can give
you access to a part of his site with the plans.
John Testement
HYPERLINK "mailto:jwt@roadmapscoaching.com"jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Finish kit - gear legs and wheels
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:25 PM
In section 35 of the plans, there is a F-1042G-R and -L but below those
"wire covers" is a rectangular area where most of my wiring appears. Does
Van's supply or do we just fabricate?
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Message 26
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| Subject: | Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining |
Bill, good luck on this one.
When my QB Wings and Fuse arrived, I went through the plans as thoroughly as
I thought I could, noting what was left to do, but didn't make a separate
list. Even if I had, I've found lately that I've had to go back and do
things that I overlooked, and then go back and fit the thing I was working
on in the first place! It's not bad because it's kind of a checks and
balances, but it sure throws you off of your rhythm when it happens.
For me, these incidental things just "get done" and I've not tried to
annotate them when I come across them, because it's all in the name of
getting back to the original task. So a good, thorough, complete list seems
like pie in the sky. There are parts of the plans, however, that do say for
Slowbuild, do this, for QB, do this. That's not everywhere in the plans,
but seems to be the author's choice when he wrote that section. Probably
wouldn't be hard for Vans to make a separate set of plans since the QB stuff
is done the same way every time, but then we wouldn't have the slow-build
sections to reference in case we needed to redo a part or needed to modify
something to suit our own missions.
Rob Wright
#392 QB Wings
Tru-Trak Servos delivered yesterday!
Finishing kit delivery next Thurs!
Engine paid for awaiting delivery!
Need more money/time/arms!
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:42 PM
Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done, and what
remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally something that
references the plans, such as: for the wings, sections xx all complete,
steps yy in section zz. need to be finished. I checked the archive, but had
no luck.
Bill Reining - going to OSH all week
Tail cone
40514
N475R reserved
Message 27
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| Subject: | Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining |
Bill this would be extremely helpful but you'll find most likely it doesn't
exist.
The problem as I see it, is you don't really want to encourage someone
starting out from point x without the intellectual catch up on what has been
done for you already, particularly when the potential is for minor
variations and discrepancies between QB's which shouldn't happen with good
QC but nonetheless does.
You will see on certain pages of the plans, references to Standard build and
QB but it's my experience that you need to read and re-read everything
that's gone before in any case to be on the safe side and to feel mentally
"up to speed" with the project. Identify everything page by page as per the
standard plans and verify it has been completed correctly is best
engineering practice.
John 40315
ACS *
John Dunne
Managing Director
acs@acspropeller.com.au
Aviation Component Services (Qld) Pty Ltd.
Building 612 Lores Bonney Drive,
Archerfield Airport Queensland Australia.
PH:61 7 3274 4500 FAX:61 7 3274 4010
"Everything Propeller"
_____
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Reining
Sent: Friday, 14 July 2006 11:42 AM
Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done, and what
remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally something that
references the plans, such as: for the wings, sections xx all complete,
steps yy in section zz. need to be finished. I checked the archive, but had
no luck.
Bill Reining - going to OSH all week
Tail cone
40514
N475R reserved
Message 28
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My apologies to the list, I didn't mean to have all the business email tag
on the end
Sorry!
John 40315
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
Reply not necessarily aimed at Pascal!
Pascal wrote:
> I see you questions are focused on resale. I have a few for you
> however (but there are hundreds of questions I assume you have
> reviewed before reaching the finacial piece)
> - Do you have a strong desire to build a plane? 1250 or so hours of
> your life is a lot of time to be spending for good resale value
> - Does the finance minister like to fly- will she look forward to
> going on trips that take too long to get to by auto?
> - Do you understand that the price to build the plane is only the
> start of the finances you'll be spending (Taxes, hangar, maintenance
> (oil, etc) that can add up to 10% yearly.
>
> With that said, I have not started the building but I have a stronger
> desire to build the plane than to fly it and one day will be ready to
> sell it for another reason. I have no doubt I'll get my time and money
> back when the plane is sold.
Initially this may be so, but as the -10 becomes more available you'll
be hard pressed to get value for your labor and maybe not the money
you've spent. I had a small business brokering airplanes, and there are
two kinds of folks out there. There are owners that are selling a 'gold
bar' and buyers looking for a 'lead bar'. Very rarely are the two folks
close to reality. There are those that will pay a nice price for a
homebuilt because they have more money than time ..... but as the market
sees more airplanes for sale then the competition for buyers heats up
and sales prices fall. Profit (or breaking even) shouldn't be a part of
the decision to build any homebuilt. Satisfaction and the ability to
legally 'tweak' your pride and joy to improve it's looks, speed, or
efficiency go a long way.
Linn
> Simply put my CFO supports the RV-10 because she knows I love to build
> and have spent 7 years planning and saving for a kit plane. She also
> really wants to take trips we simply can not go on due to distance and
> time to get there, those two and not the resale works for me, if your
> answer to the three questions is "yes" and your wife understands the
> implication of your time building, the resale value should be an easy
> sale for you. Just don't get caught up with the money and forget why
> your building the plane to start with- unless of course it is as an
> investment with hopes of making money on your labor and not for the
> pleasure it will bring.
>
> Best of success with your propostion to the finance minister
>
> Pascal
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: James K Hovis <mailto:james.k.hovis@gmail.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 11:28 AM
> Subject: RV10-List: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's?
>
> As noted before I've been lurking absorbing the material before I
> actually make the plunge and get a RV-10 kit. One question I'd
> like to post to you here is what you think the relative value
> for a completed RV-10 would be if one was to sell their aircraft
> on the open market? I know that type of question would probably
> lead to many different answers since each airplane built is a
> little different from the next based on builder preferences and
> such. For example, one guy could build a strictly VFR machine
> while his buddy a few hangers away has a hard IFR capable machine.
> What I'm thinking is a moderate to high hp engine (235 to 260 hp)
> and probably light duty IFR capable ( i.e. basic gauges with maybe
> one or two EFIS displays and engine monitor). If I can reasonably
> assure the household finance minister that I can get a good return
> on my investment, it might sway her towards my thinking. I've seen
> one RV-10 offered for $220,000 and a partially finished a/c for
> $175,000. I'd assume there hasn't been many sold since finished
> birds haven't been flying long, but any info from the list is
> helpful.
>
> Thanks.
>
> James K. Hovis
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Door fitting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I didn't see any other replies to this, so...
Yes, I believe that you will be trimming considerably further
than the scribe mark on some areas of the doors. In fact, you
can get the gap nice and thin while fitting them, between the lip
and inner door, but then if you cover the door with fabric
you'll end up trimming even further. So my advice is to not
paint that lip until you absolutely know the doors are done.
If you trimmed too far, it's not the end of the world. The
door seal will seal the air. If there's a lip there it
should keep out water. So beyond that I think it's mostly
cosmetic, so just try to make it nice and even.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
rv10builder wrote:
> For those of you that have fitted your doors...
>
> I am finding that a considerable amount of material must be removed from
> the door perimeter to get them to where they'll recess into the canopy
> opening. By considerable I mean that possibly 1/8 to 1/4 further
> than the scribe line is removed. Is this normal? Just being cautious!
>
> Brian
> 40308 (doors)
> http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder
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