Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:02 AM - Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet (John W. Cox)
2. 04:21 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions (Wayne Edgerton)
3. 04:22 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions (Wayne Edgerton)
4. 04:24 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions (Wayne Edgerton)
5. 04:39 AM - Re: Overhead Console Vent Inlet (Wayne Edgerton)
6. 04:50 AM - Re: time to build (Wayne Edgerton)
7. 05:17 AM - Oil Cooler Mount (Tom Gesele)
8. 05:20 AM - Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet (Tim Olson)
9. 05:23 AM - Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet (Wayne Edgerton)
10. 06:38 AM - Re: Oil Cooler Mount (Rick)
11. 09:35 AM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions (John W. Cox)
12. 10:05 AM - Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet (John W. Cox)
13. 11:55 AM - Oxygen Systems + Fills for OSH (Tim Olson)
14. 01:43 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (John Goodman)
15. 01:45 PM - instrument sub-pane (bob.kaufmann)
16. 03:12 PM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions (Russell Daves)
17. 03:12 PM - autopilot (Robert G. Wright)
18. 03:26 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Mount (Chris , Susie Darcy)
19. 04:55 PM - Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions (Mark Ritter)
20. 04:56 PM - Re: autopilot (PJ Seipel)
21. 05:03 PM - Re: autopilot (Tim Olson)
22. 05:47 PM - Re: instrument sub-pane (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
23. 05:55 PM - Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet (Chris)
24. 07:03 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Dan Masys)
25. 07:22 PM - Re: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Marcus Cooper)
26. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Tim Olson)
27. 08:29 PM - Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? (Dan Masys)
28. 09:06 PM - Rvator Announcement (Brian Douglas)
29. 10:23 PM - Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet (KiloPapa)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
One only needs to look at the Beechcraft airframe to get an idea of
where they introduced an aft placed induction cowl on the
Vertical/Empennage for conditioned air. On the VANS aircraft the
question is which of the two sides of the Vertical is the more
predominate HIGH pressure. It can change with both airspeed and/or
power setting. The rudder tab placed on N410RV is on the opposite side
of the identical rudder surface of N220RV because the Continental
provides less helical (corkscrew) airflow over the entire airframe than
the Lycoming IO-540. N410RV has much more rudder authority. I have posed
that observation to this group before without response or consideration.
Ken Krueger can help with his airflow calculations of the low pressure
areas and those high pressure areas from the calculation of where the
neutral density point was for placement of the static port.
As a personal offering and no personal affront to Ed. Most of my
efforts will be towards reducing drag and I will not be considering such
an inlet when I incorporate the well executed overhead air plenum. Tony
should have known better from the alternative conditioned air ducts on
the many Lancairs he is familiar with. NACA for me.
Carbon monoxide is far more of a concern with an exhaust muff heat
capture device.
John $00.02
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GenGrumpy@aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:31 PM
To the -10 net on the overhead console:
I bought one of Tony's overhead consoles and have installed it in N184JM
already.
I am pleased with the console, and it goes in nicely if you pop rivet it
into the cabin top and then use simple silicone caulk to fill in the
gaps.
However, there is a potential problem we need to address (and shame on
me for not thinking of it ahead of time).
It has to do with placement of the air inlet scoop versus the exhaust
swirl caused by prop flow coupled with the aerodynamics of the bird.
The concern is that if we are not careful in placement of the inleet
scoop to feed the tubes and console, that we will bring exhaust gases
(and carbon monoxide) into the cabin through the console.
At present, I have Tony's first production scoop that mounts directly in
front of the vertical tail.
There is significant concern that prop and exhaust swirl will suck CO
into the cabin with this placement. Van's has no data to support or
disapprove of such a cabin air inlet mounting.
I am looking at alternative placement of either Tony's scoop or
installation of a NACA scoop elsewhere on the aft fuselage to supply the
air.
However, thus far we (I have a couple of aero engineers helping me) have
not been able to find any definitivie studies on this issue from either
the academic or corporate (Van's, Piper, etc) flight test world that
shows what the exhaust swirl actually looks like.
If I cannot find any definitive studies, then I will flight test a NACA
vent on the fuselage to see what CO it draws into the console/cockpit.
However, that probably won't happen till late Aug or mid Sep due to
other circumstances getting my bird into the air.
If anyone on the net has one of Tony's consoles and can test an inlet
location for CO prior to that, please let me know and I'll give you my
best guess where to mount your scoop should you decide not to use Tony's
scoop and its mounting location.
grumpy
#40404.....soon to fly!
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions |
I'm not exactly sure what their price is right now, I ordered it quite
awhile back, but I think it would be in the $1,000 area. You would have
to give Stein a call to make find out for sure.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions |
Sorry about the previous post, I forgot to sign it. Not awake yet I
quess :>}
I'm not exactly sure what their price is right now, I ordered it quite
awhile back, but I think it would be in the $1,000 range. You would have
to give Stein a call to make find out for sure.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
working on the baffling baffles
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions |
John,
I wish I were talented enough to build that panel but unfortunately I'm
not. I bought the panel from Stein.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
working on the baffling baffle
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Overhead Console Vent Inlet |
Tony Sustare
Accuracy Avionics
541-388-1788
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Baffling
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: time to build |
Man, that had to be a major bummer to work on something that long and
then have to cut it up. That would really give you a bad hair day. After
reading your post I was thinking if I had to do that to my 10 that it
would put me into major depression :>}
Wayne Edgerton #40336
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler Mount |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tom Gesele <tgesele@optonline.net>
Does anyone have a suggestion on how to drive the rivet holding the oil
cooler mount to the firewall that sits behind the flange for the cooling
duct? The best I can come up with is to back-rivet while holding the plate
tight with some heavy bucking bars but if anyone has a better solution, I'd
appreciate hearing it.
Thanks,
Tom Gesele #40473
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
You can see on this photo where Beech placed it on my old plane,
on the forward strake of the Vertical stab:
http://www.redcedarlake.net/sundowner/pics/midsize/N2251L0003.jpg
I don't know where to fall on John and John's points though.
On one hand, sure, CO could be an issue. But, we're experimental
and that to me means we need to experiment. Nobody will know for
sure until a test flight is made. Personally, I doubt CO will
be an issue with the tail scoop, but I also often have my CO
meter in my plane even without such a scoop.
As for the rudder trim difference between the 2 planes, I don't
know if I buy it or not. Sure, the theory could be right, but
my plane was pretty straight and true without wheel fairings.
Add those and not have them perfect and now it isn't as straight
a flyer. I would believe that the difference in rudder trim block
could very easily be due to differences in the build qualities of
the gear leg and wheel fairings. I personally would guess that
without the wheel fairings, both of them would have at least
a rudder block on the same side....but again, we're experimental,
and without us actually taking these parts off those 2 planes and
comparing, the world will never know for sure...so the point is
kind of moot. That's why I never really considered it much...it
just doesn't make much difference to anything.
As for scoop style and placement, it's possible to be the same
thing. The more proven way would be to use the NACA, as John
suggests. But, if the first builder to use the new style
puts it on, and in turn finds out it works great, then I'd
see no reason to fault it. Having the nozzle sticking out
as it does, may keep it in more fast moving air away from the
boundry layer if one exists there, so it is possible that it
will work fine. Remember that the air filter inlet on the
front cowl is directly behind the swirling prop, yet it works
fine. An RV-6/10 builder told me a couple days ago that
he actually sees a RAM air effect on his 6 of about 1" at
high speed. So, there is still a fair possibility that
the tail nozzle will work. But, we're experimental, and
we're experimenting. The best thing about the design is
that it's built in to the tail intersection fairing, so it
will be a "disposable" design. You could always buy a new
fairing and start over.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John W. Cox wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> One only needs to look at the Beechcraft airframe to get an idea of
> where they introduced an aft placed induction cowl on the
> Vertical/Empennage for conditioned air. On the VANS aircraft the
> question is which of the two sides of the Vertical is the more
> predominate HIGH pressure. It can change with both airspeed and/or
> power setting. The rudder tab placed on N410RV is on the opposite side
> of the identical rudder surface of N220RV because the Continental
> provides less helical (corkscrew) airflow over the entire airframe than
> the Lycoming IO-540. N410RV has much more rudder authority. I have posed
> that observation to this group before without response or consideration.
>
> Ken Krueger can help with his airflow calculations of the low pressure
> areas and those high pressure areas from the calculation of where the
> neutral density point was for placement of the static port.
>
> As a personal offering and no personal affront to Ed. Most of my
> efforts will be towards reducing drag and I will not be considering such
> an inlet when I incorporate the well executed overhead air plenum. Tony
> should have known better from the alternative conditioned air ducts on
> the many Lancairs he is familiar with. NACA for me.
>
> Carbon monoxide is far more of a concern with an exhaust muff heat
> capture device.
>
> John $00.02
> Do not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> GenGrumpy@aol.com
> Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 8:31 PM
>
> To the -10 net on the overhead console:
>
> I bought one of Tony's overhead consoles and have installed it in N184JM
> already.
>
> I am pleased with the console, and it goes in nicely if you pop rivet it
> into the cabin top and then use simple silicone caulk to fill in the
> gaps.
>
> However, there is a potential problem we need to address (and shame on
> me for not thinking of it ahead of time).
>
> It has to do with placement of the air inlet scoop versus the exhaust
> swirl caused by prop flow coupled with the aerodynamics of the bird.
>
> The concern is that if we are not careful in placement of the inleet
> scoop to feed the tubes and console, that we will bring exhaust gases
> (and carbon monoxide) into the cabin through the console.
>
> At present, I have Tony's first production scoop that mounts directly in
> front of the vertical tail.
>
> There is significant concern that prop and exhaust swirl will suck CO
> into the cabin with this placement. Van's has no data to support or
> disapprove of such a cabin air inlet mounting.
>
> I am looking at alternative placement of either Tony's scoop or
> installation of a NACA scoop elsewhere on the aft fuselage to supply the
> air.
>
> However, thus far we (I have a couple of aero engineers helping me) have
> not been able to find any definitivie studies on this issue from either
> the academic or corporate (Van's, Piper, etc) flight test world that
> shows what the exhaust swirl actually looks like.
>
> If I cannot find any definitive studies, then I will flight test a NACA
> vent on the fuselage to see what CO it draws into the console/cockpit.
>
> However, that probably won't happen till late Aug or mid Sep due to
> other circumstances getting my bird into the air.
>
> If anyone on the net has one of Tony's consoles and can test an inlet
> location for CO prior to that, please let me know and I'll give you my
> best guess where to mount your scoop should you decide not to use Tony's
> scoop and its mounting location.
>
> grumpy
> #40404.....soon to fly!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet |
Hello grumpy,
I also have Tony's overhead console installed. My install didn't go
quite as easy as it sounds like your did because the plane the mold was
made from appeared to have had quite a bit of sanding work done on the
canopy before the mold was made, so we had to modify it somewhat to get
it to fit. I like the console and I'm not sorry I got it, but we
couldn't just stick it on and go. I'm still working on sealing the back
area that should abut to the baggage compartment bulkhead.
I've owned a Bonanza and a Baron and they both had air inlets around the
area where Tony has his, based on the pictures, I haven't received
anything yet, except that Beech has theirs on the side of the fairing.
On the Bonanza I never had any problem of exhaust coming into the cabin.
It would be more closely related to the 10 in that the Baron's engines
obviously wouldn't be inline with the VS.
I've attached a photo of the Bonanza placement of their air inlet. Are
you thinking that the exhaust will come under the plane and then swirl
up around the VS area? I'm not an engineer by any stretch of the
imagination, so I'm not questioning your concern, but it seems like the
exhaust would travel down and back, not down and up over the VS ??
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Engine baffling
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Mount |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Tom,
That's what I did, I used the tapered foot of a "Z' Shaped bucking bar and back
riveted it. Matter of fact I back riveted the entire assmbly to the firewall.
Rick S.
40185
Message 11
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| Subject: | instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Okay, that makes it two respected builders endorsements. Make note to
self, visit SteinAir booth 2030 on the Northside Wall of Exhibit Hall B,
and review their website site at www.steinair.com before departing for
OSH.
Endorsement by Tim Olson - 2005. Endorsement by Wayne Edgerton - 2006...
no commercial connection. That is enough for me to consider the
supplier.
John $00.02
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:24 AM
questions
John,
I wish I were talented enough to build that panel but unfortunately I'm
not. I bought the panel from Stein.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
working on the baffling baffle
Message 12
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| Subject: | Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
We've done significant still frame tufting tests on the Nanchang CJ-6A
running an M-14P radial (360 hp with an MT 3 blade). To test our cowl
modification concept - POC. It won't be making OSH till next year -
Sorry. I am still waiting for Randy to say he is game with his RV-10.
Every airframe and powerplant creates a different flow pattern. Takes
about 6 hours of installation of tufts (best done the night before over
a couple of brewskis, an hour of extensive formation flight (calmest
winds within 2 hours of sunrise),with a qualified cameraman and a lot of
visual questioning of the final pictures. Boy, are digital cameras
great.
Basic rules are the high pressure areas are more pronounced in their
flow direction. The low pressure areas are less predictable as to
separation points (which change with pitch and bank attitude). The
dormant areas are always a total surprise and are airframe specific.
Yes there was a slight curl corkscrew wise around the airframe with a
rate which changes with the introduction of the wing lift change. We
did 10 degrees through 45.
On the Nanchang, the loss of lift forward of the wing root and on the
sides of the cowl forward of the cockpit were a total surprise. The
tufts actually tied themselves in knots. Others, the yarns were totally
shredded. Result, we are going with wing fairing mods like on the Legacy
2000.
Using CosmosFloWorks with Solidworks it can be computer tested but I
wouldn't trust anything short of visual capture on N610RV actually
flying. Oh Yeh, VANS switched from Autocad to Solidworks for the RV-12
last year. Ken K. (not S.) could chime in on this but I believe the
company policy is silence. Like Tim said, It's experimental.... do the
experiments - take the risk - reap the reward.
The snorkel concept has been used on air-conditioning ductwork. 4 - 7
knot loss over NACA. I won't be going there but good luck.
John - KUAO
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:22 AM
Hello grumpy,
I also have Tony's overhead console installed. My install didn't go
quite as easy as it sounds like your did because the plane the mold was
made from appeared to have had quite a bit of sanding work done on the
canopy before the mold was made, so we had to modify it somewhat to get
it to fit. I like the console and I'm not sorry I got it, but we
couldn't just stick it on and go. I'm still working on sealing the back
area that should abut to the baggage compartment bulkhead.
I've owned a Bonanza and a Baron and they both had air inlets around the
area where Tony has his, based on the pictures, I haven't received
anything yet, except that Beech has theirs on the side of the fairing.
On the Bonanza I never had any problem of exhaust coming into the cabin.
It would be more closely related to the 10 in that the Baron's engines
obviously wouldn't be inline with the VS.
I've attached a photo of the Bonanza placement of their air inlet. Are
you thinking that the exhaust will come under the plane and then swirl
up around the VS area? I'm not an engineer by any stretch of the
imagination, so I'm not questioning your concern, but it seems like the
exhaust would travel down and back, not down and up over the VS ??
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Engine baffling
Message 13
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| Subject: | Oxygen Systems + Fills for OSH |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I just got my O2 filling stuff all done at the hanger, and now updated
my oxygen related page:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/accessories/oxygen/index.html
If any RV-10 builders flying to OSH are going to need O2, and you
happen to fly by my area, I may be able to help you out. I think
some places give O2 fills at the show from what I've heard, if
you bought their system, so that's another opportunity.
Man am I getting pumped for this year's show. At least my
shopping list is short for a change. Only 1 week to go!
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
James' question has gotten a lot of responses, but I thought I'd throw
in my two cents. When I finally complete my RV-10, it's resale value is
limited to three possibilities:
What is the most an insurance company will pay for a hull loss.
What will my wife accept for that "thing" out back after I croak.
What do I need out of it so I can move up to building an RV-13.
I sure hope that the third one is the one that comes to pass (g).
John
#40572 Vertical Stab & Rudder complete.
N711JG reserved
Message 15
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| Subject: | instrument sub-pane |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
Only problem with dealing with Stein is that they are old fashioned honest,
and a handshake or their word is solid. They have my business and a lot of
others.
Bob K
Working engine and instruments
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions |
How about a third endorsement for SteinAir. Stein built my panel, great
price, wonderful service, great follow-up after delivery. I wouldn't buy
from anyone else, even if they told me they would beat Stein's price.
Two of my buddies also bought from Stein and one of them who is flying his
RV-6 with a duel screen GRT system he got from Stein has had nothing but
great things to say about Stein.
My first pick for a DAR fail through for me so I am waiting on a new DAR to
come down and inspect my -10 and it doesn't look like I will make OSH2006,
but if I did you would find me hanging out at Stein's booth.
Russ Daves
N710RV waiting on DAR signoff.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 11:31 AM
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Okay, that makes it two respected builders endorsements. Make note to
> self, visit SteinAir booth 2030 on the Northside Wall of Exhibit Hall B,
> and review their website site at www.steinair.com before departing for
> OSH.
>
> Endorsement by Tim Olson - 2005. Endorsement by Wayne Edgerton - 2006...
> no commercial connection. That is enough for me to consider the
> supplier.
>
> John $00.02
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
> Edgerton
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:24 AM
> questions
>
> John,
>
> I wish I were talented enough to build that panel but unfortunately I'm
> not. I bought the panel from Stein.
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
> working on the baffling baffle
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
Installing the roll servo in the right wing.
I've got the neutral position jig in place.
How do I find out what "neutral" is for the connecting rod that joins the
servo to the bellcrank?
My servos were drop shipped with pictures only, and after reviewing the
drawings online I still couldn't find a neutral setting/measurement.
Rob Wright
#392
QB Wings
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Mount |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Back rivet.....easy!
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 10:15 PM
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tom Gesele <tgesele@optonline.net>
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion on how to drive the rivet holding the oil
> cooler mount to the firewall that sits behind the flange for the cooling
> duct? The best I can come up with is to back-rivet while holding the plate
> tight with some heavy bucking bars but if anyone has a better solution,
> I'd
> appreciate hearing it.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Gesele #40473
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: instrument sub-panel, fuse and cabin cover questions |
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Message 20
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--> RV10-List message posted by: PJ Seipel <seipel@seznam.cz>
I adjusted it so that the arm of the servo was straight up when the
ailerons were neutral.
PJ
#40032
Robert G. Wright wrote:
>
> Installing the roll servo in the right wing.
>
> Ive got the neutral position jig in place.
>
> How do I find out what neutral is for the connecting rod that joins
> the servo to the bellcrank?
>
> My servos were drop shipped with pictures only, and after reviewing
> the drawings online I still couldnt find a neutral setting/measurement.
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392
>
> QB Wings
>
Message 21
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I think you just need to go by making the pushrod length
the proper length. The rest takes care of itself.
If they don't have measurements, give them a call and they
can fill you in. I may have the numbers on the roll servo
on one of my pages just before first flight....I was still
tweaking that arm a day or two before, since I had just
got the torque-enhancement mod.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Robert G. Wright wrote:
> Installing the roll servo in the right wing.
>
>
>
> Ive got the neutral position jig in place.
>
>
>
> How do I find out what neutral is for the connecting rod that joins
> the servo to the bellcrank?
>
>
>
> My servos were drop shipped with pictures only, and after reviewing the
> drawings online I still couldnt find a neutral setting/measurement.
>
>
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392
>
> QB Wings
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | instrument sub-pane |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
I second and third this statement. I have nothing but good things to say
about Stein and his staff. He has given me his honest assessment of any
of the toys I have wanted to add to my plane. He has even steered me to
his competitors to buy things, as he likes to spread the dollars to
others. I think this fact alone leads to his high customer satisfaction,
and the fact that what he says he will do, he does.
A very happy customer of Steins.
Dan Lloyd
40269 (N289DT)
Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob.kaufmann
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:45 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
Only problem with dealing with Stein is that they are old fashioned
honest,
and a handshake or their word is solid. They have my business and a lot
of
others.
Bob K
Working engine and instruments
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet |
Look at the scoop on this Bo, if you have ever seen the retractable
scoops on the early Bonanza's thats what I am going to look into doing.
It is on the center of the roof just aft or near the grab handle which
is on the right upper side of the fuselage. I am thing of a retractable
scoop just behind the lid...we'll see. Experimental and all.
http://www.beechcraft.org/vtail/p436jb/
http://www.beechcraft.org/vtail/p774S/
Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: GenGrumpy@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 11:31 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet
To the -10 net on the overhead console:
I bought one of Tony's overhead consoles and have installed it in
N184JM already.
I am pleased with the console, and it goes in nicely if you pop rivet
it into the cabin top and then use simple silicone caulk to fill in the
gaps.
However, there is a potential problem we need to address (and shame on
me for not thinking of it ahead of time).
It has to do with placement of the air inlet scoop versus the exhaust
swirl caused by prop flow coupled with the aerodynamics of the bird.
The concern is that if we are not careful in placement of the inleet
scoop to feed the tubes and console, that we will bring exhaust gases
(and carbon monoxide) into the cabin through the console.
At present, I have Tony's first production scoop that mounts directly
in front of the vertical tail.
There is significant concern that prop and exhaust swirl will suck CO
into the cabin with this placement. Van's has no data to support or
disapprove of such a cabin air inlet mounting.
I am looking at alternative placement of either Tony's scoop or
installation of a NACA scoop elsewhere on the aft fuselage to supply the
air.
However, thus far we (I have a couple of aero engineers helping me)
have not been able to find any definitivie studies on this issue from
either the academic or corporate (Van's, Piper, etc) flight test world
that shows what the exhaust swirl actually looks like.
If I cannot find any definitive studies, then I will flight test a
NACA vent on the fuselage to see what CO it draws into the
console/cockpit.
However, that probably won't happen till late Aug or mid Sep due to
other circumstances getting my bird into the air.
If anyone on the net has one of Tony's consoles and can test an inlet
location for CO prior to that, please let me know and I'll give you my
best guess where to mount your scoop should you decide not to use Tony's
scoop and its mounting location.
grumpy
#40404.....soon to fly!
In a message dated 7/14/2006 12:48:12 PM Central Standard Time,
CJohnston@popsound.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston"
<CJohnston@popsound.com>
Does Tony Sustare have a website or contact info?
cj
#40410
fuse
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 7:34 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Ed Hayden, who had his canopy at SNF for display at Tony
Sustare's booth for the overhead console, sent me some
photos to post. The overhead console is pressurized via
a tail inlet scoop, and Tony has that completed now. Ed
also has A/C installed in his tail, that works with the
vents. Should be impressive to see when he's flying.
Here is a link to the Mod's page where I stuck everything.
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/mods/index.html
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
---- Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
> To combine replies to another, I agree, if anyone can
> build an RV-10 to the point of finishing, in less
> than 1500 hours, I'd be pretty surprised, even if
> completely QB. My estimates would be more like:
>
> QB Complete: 1500-1700
> 1/2 QB Options: 1700-2000
> 100% Standard: 1900-2500
Not sure, but I think my QB may come in under 1000 hrs total since I am fitting
the canopy cover now, all wing construction including lighting, wiring, antennas
and servos are done, have the electrical & lighting systems in the fuse and
tested, and some avionics done. The engine is sitting a few feet away from
the firewall, and the KitLog program tells me total shop hours are currently at
487 (started the project last August 26th). At the same point on my slow build
-7A I had about 1000 shop hours in the project.
I think the difference is knowing exactly what you want to do and how to get it
done on your second RV.
But then, I might be underestimating the cabin completion issues. Will see...
-Dan Masys
#40448
Message 25
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| Subject: | RE: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I can't help with questions 2 or 3, but when I spoke to the insurance folks
while at Sun-n-Fun Avemco said the highest they could go was $125K. The
AOPA folks leaned toward $125K but said they might be able to find an
underwriter that would support $150K. The numbers may have changed since
April since there are more -10s flying and a few have sold for well over
that. The big thing with Avemco is they will over cover an amount you have
receipts for.
Marcus
40286
Inspection set for 22 Jul - optimistic but hopeful
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Goodman
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:40 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
James' question has gotten a lot of responses, but I thought I'd throw
in my two cents. When I finally complete my RV-10, it's resale value is
limited to three possibilities:
. What is the most an insurance company will pay for a hull loss.
. What will my wife accept for that "thing" out back after I croak.
. What do I need out of it so I can move up to building an RV-13.
I sure hope that the third one is the one that comes to pass (g).
John
#40572 Vertical Stab & Rudder complete.
N711JG reserved
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I know with AIG that coverage can be had to $165K. Don't know
if there's a max that they'll go to.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Marcus Cooper wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
>
> I can't help with questions 2 or 3, but when I spoke to the insurance folks
> while at Sun-n-Fun Avemco said the highest they could go was $125K. The
> AOPA folks leaned toward $125K but said they might be able to find an
> underwriter that would support $150K. The numbers may have changed since
> April since there are more -10s flying and a few have sold for well over
> that. The big thing with Avemco is they will over cover an amount you have
> receipts for.
>
> Marcus
> 40286
>
> Inspection set for 22 Jul - optimistic but hopeful
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Goodman
> Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 4:40 PM
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>
> James' question has gotten a lot of responses, but I thought I'd throw
> in my two cents. When I finally complete my RV-10, it's resale value is
> limited to three possibilities:
>
> . What is the most an insurance company will pay for a hull loss.
>
> . What will my wife accept for that "thing" out back after I croak.
>
> . What do I need out of it so I can move up to building an RV-13.
>
> I sure hope that the third one is the one that comes to pass (g).
>
> John
> #40572 Vertical Stab & Rudder complete.
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Relative Value for Complete RV-10's? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
---- Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
> To combine replies to another, I agree, if anyone can
> build an RV-10 to the point of finishing, in less
> than 1500 hours, I'd be pretty surprised, even if
> completely QB. My estimates would be more like:
>
> QB Complete: 1500-1700
> 1/2 QB Options: 1700-2000
> 100% Standard: 1900-2500
Not sure, but I think my QB may come in under 1000 hrs total since I am fitting
the canopy cover now, all wing construction including lighting, wiring, antennas
and servos are done, have the electrical & lighting systems in the fuse and
tested, and some avionics done. The engine is sitting a few feet away from
the firewall, and the KitLog program tells me total shop hours are currently at
487 (started the project last August 26th). At the same point on my slow build
-7A I had about 1000 shop hours in the project.
I think the difference is knowing exactly what you want to do and how to get it
done on your second RV.
But then, I might be underestimating the cabin completion issues. Will see...
-Dan Masys
#40448
Message 28
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| Subject: | Rvator Announcement |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Brian Douglas <bsponcil@belinblank.org>
The latest Rvator arrived the other day and even though it had been worked
over unusually hard by the gorillas at the post office, I did manage to
decipher an interesting little nugget on page 10.
"If all goes well, we will have a SIGNIFICANT PRODUCT INTRODUCTION at
AirVenture 2006 - the result of over a year's intensive work. No, not the
RV-12."
Hmmmmmmmm. Anyone "in the know" want to spoil their surprise???
-Brian
#40497
N211BD
Iowa City, IA
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Tony's Overhead Console Vent Inlet |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa@antelecom.net>
John,
What area on the plane are you looking at for the NACA duct?
Kevin
40494
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