Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:57 AM - Re: Rookie questions (Chris , Susie Darcy)
2. 04:33 AM - Re: Rookie questions (Wayne Edgerton)
3. 04:47 AM - Re: Re: MT at OSH (LessDragProd@aol.com)
4. 05:23 AM - Re: Rookie questions (Kelly McMullen)
5. 05:40 AM - OSH Update 7/29/06 (bcondrey)
6. 05:58 AM - Re: Rookie questions (John W. Cox)
7. 06:00 AM - OSH count (John W. Cox)
8. 07:49 AM - Sky-Tec starter - latest update (Marcus Cooper)
9. 08:40 AM - Re: OSH count (Jeff Carpenter)
10. 08:52 AM - Re: RV-List: N710RV First Flight (John Jessen)
11. 10:03 AM - Re: OSH count (Simon Barber)
12. 10:51 AM - RV-10 Quality @ OSH -w/ appoligies to John Cox (Deems Davis)
13. 11:58 AM - Re: RV-10 Quality @ OSH -w/ appoligies to John Cox (John Jessen)
14. 12:00 PM - W-1007E extends beyond rear spar flange. pg 15-3 (Jae Chang)
15. 01:38 PM - Re: W-1007E extends beyond rear spar flange. pg 15-3 (Deems Davis)
16. 01:44 PM - Re: Rookie questions (John W. Cox)
17. 01:46 PM - Re: OSH Update 7/29/06 (John W. Cox)
18. 02:00 PM - Loss of Jim Wright (John W. Cox)
19. 02:07 PM - Re: Sky-Tec starter - latest update (Kelly McMullen)
20. 03:02 PM - Re: OSH Update 7/29/06 (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
21. 04:35 PM - Re: Throttle quadrant (Tim Olson)
22. 04:37 PM - Off-Field -10, more info (Tim Olson)
23. 04:44 PM - Re: Grand Rapids Wiring (Tim Olson)
24. 04:50 PM - Re: Starter Problem - update (Tim Olson)
25. 04:52 PM - Re: Inspection completed! (Tim Olson)
26. 04:57 PM - Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials (Tim Olson)
27. 05:18 PM - Re: OSH Update 7/28/06 (Tim Olson)
28. 05:21 PM - Re: W-1011 and rear spar holes are not matched (Tim Olson)
29. 05:30 PM - Re: Sky-Tec starter - latest update (Tim Olson)
30. 06:13 PM - Tunnel Temps (Russell Daves)
31. 06:19 PM - Re: Inspection completed! (Mark Ritter)
32. 06:27 PM - Re: Sky-Tec starter - latest update (Marcus Cooper)
33. 06:30 PM - Re: RV-10 Quality @ OSH -w/ appoligies to John Cox (Tim Olson)
34. 06:47 PM - Crossbow / Pinpoint News (Tim Olson)
35. 06:53 PM - Re: Sky-Tec starter - latest update (Tim Olson)
36. 07:36 PM - Garmin 430W/530W (Tim Olson)
37. 07:56 PM - Re: RV-10 Quality @ OSH -w/ appoligies to John Cox (Chris)
38. 08:06 PM - My Oshkosh Report (zackrv8)
39. 08:37 PM - Life after Oshkosh (ddddsp1@juno.com)
40. 10:59 PM - Re: Tunnel Temps (KiloPapa)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Rookie questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
I see a lot of builders are putting doublers on however I didnt on my 6 and
never had a problem. Might put one on the 10 not sure yet.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:08 AM
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Paul Grimstad" <bldgrv10450@comcast.net>
>
> Sean
> I'm sure your not alone as a builder / student pilot. I am enjoying the
> same program. I have been told that antennas should have a doubler plate
> to help disburse the vibration and avoid stress cracking of the skin. I
> will also look forward to the stream on this subject.
> Paul Grimstad
> RV10 40450 Tailcone complete / bolting up the tail feathers
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:53 AM
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: <seanblair@adelphia.net>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am one of those rare people you might consider crazy that is building a
>> plane and learning to fly at the same time. Don't worry...I'll get my
>> time and transition training in well before I jump into the 10.
>>
>> Because of my inexperience, I run into things in the build with systems
>> that I do not have alot of knowledge about yet. One of these are all the
>> antennaes and their placement in the airframe.
>>
>> Is there a list of the antennaes I will need and their possible
>> locations/functions? I am well into the fuselage construction and need
>> to start thinking of where to mount things and possible wire/coax runs.
>> I intend to go pretty heavily on the capabilities of this plane. IFR and
>> lots of glass in the panel.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Sean Blair
>> #40225
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Rookie questions |
Sean, A lot depends on what type of flying you plan on doing. Tin
Olson's web site has a list of the antennas he used. It's similar to
what I've done to equip for IFR flight. Here is the link to Tim's
posting on this.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/antennas/index.html
Wayne Edgerton #40336
do nor archive
Message 3
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You need to ask.
If you purchase an MT Propeller during the airshow week, there is a 10%
airshow discount from list price at the MT Propeller booth.
At Oshkosh and at Sun-N-Fun.
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 7/28/2006 8:49:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bob.condrey@baesystems.com writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
No show special on MT that I'm aware of.
Bob
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rookie questions |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
While not required, certainly recommended. AC43-13-2A gives details of
what FAA expects on certified aircraft, as a reference. Available on web
if you don't have it.
Chris , Susie Darcy wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>
> I see a lot of builders are putting doublers on however I didnt on my 6
> and never had a problem. Might put one on the 10 not sure yet.
>
> Chris
> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:08 AM
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Paul Grimstad"
>> <bldgrv10450@comcast.net>
>>
>> Sean
>> I'm sure your not alone as a builder / student pilot. I am enjoying
>> the same program. I have been told that antennas should have a doubler
>> plate to help disburse the vibration and avoid stress cracking of the
>> skin. I will also look forward to the stream on this subject.
>> Paul Grimstad
>> RV10 40450 Tailcone complete / bolting up the tail feathers
>> do not archive
>> ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:53 AM
>>
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: <seanblair@adelphia.net>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> I am one of those rare people you might consider crazy that is
>>> building a plane and learning to fly at the same time. Don't
>>> worry...I'll get my time and transition training in well before I
>>> jump into the 10.
>>>
>>> Because of my inexperience, I run into things in the build with
>>> systems that I do not have alot of knowledge about yet. One of these
>>> are all the antennaes and their placement in the airframe.
>>>
>>> Is there a list of the antennaes I will need and their possible
>>> locations/functions? I am well into the fuselage construction and
>>> need to start thinking of where to mount things and possible
>>> wire/coax runs. I intend to go pretty heavily on the capabilities of
>>> this plane. IFR and lots of glass in the panel.
>>>
>>> Thanks for any help.
>>>
>>> Sean Blair
>>> #40225
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | OSH Update 7/29/06 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Big news discovered yesterday is that the Avidyne folks will sell Integra systems
for installation in an RV-10. Don't really have many details since the booth
folks just found out. Price quoted at the booth was $30K for the PFD and $15K
for the 5000 MFD. A lot of money for sure, but probably competitive with
a G900 setup after you add radios.
Just for the photo collection I've added pictures of Noel Simmons' N325HP and Jon
Stewart's planes. Also an update of RV-10 HQ - it's gotten a little crowed
here. Finally, a set of pictures of Stein's gas engine powered couch.
We are planning on leaving mid-day today so this will probably be my last update.
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50526#50526
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_10_hq_996.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sofa2_109.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stewart_754.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n325hp_engine_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n325hp_502.jpg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Rookie questions |
One only needs to attend one of Kent White's classes at OSH
(www.tinman.com) to know that 2024 has memory and it will talk back.
Doublers are a requirement on Certified aircraft for a reason.
Homebuilders are experimenters and the results are documented.
The RV-4 builders a few years ago learned this lesson on their trailing
edge, control surface rivets when they stress cracked. Every builder
can do which technique they want... hence the few atrocious builds of
RV-10s at OSH this year. The key phrase is YET! Doublers are simple,
based in logic and compliant with the simplest rules of physics.
Have fun building... I am rushing to another Kent White class on
installing louvers into aluminum cowls. I would bet it will be 3003
because of the 2024 memory.
Just a thought
John Cox - $00.02
________________________________
Darcy
Sent: Sat 7/29/2006 2:52 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy"
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
I see a lot of builders are putting doublers on however I didnt on my 6
and
never had a problem. Might put one on the 10 not sure yet.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:08 AM
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Paul Grimstad"
<bldgrv10450@comcast.net>
>
> Sean
> I'm sure your not alone as a builder / student pilot. I am enjoying
the
> same program. I have been told that antennas should have a doubler
plate
> to help disburse the vibration and avoid stress cracking of the skin.
I
> will also look forward to the stream on this subject.
> Paul Grimstad
> RV10 40450 Tailcone complete / bolting up the tail feathers
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:53 AM
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: <seanblair@adelphia.net>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am one of those rare people you might consider crazy that is
building a
>> plane and learning to fly at the same time. Don't worry...I'll get
my
>> time and transition training in well before I jump into the 10.
>>
>> Because of my inexperience, I run into things in the build with
systems
>> that I do not have alot of knowledge about yet. One of these are all
the
>> antennaes and their placement in the airframe.
>>
>> Is there a list of the antennaes I will need and their possible
>> locations/functions? I am well into the fuselage construction and
need
>> to start thinking of where to mount things and possible wire/coax
runs.
>> I intend to go pretty heavily on the capabilities of this plane. IFR
and
>> lots of glass in the panel.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Sean Blair
>> #40225
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
Message 7
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Bob send me the attendance list from last night and the tab. My Paypal
account is in good shape and I clearly missed the mark. With the
lowered expectations in quality builds this year, I am actually glad not
to have seen my 20 RV-10s. Would rather have the quality, safer
aircraft and smarter builders.
Rushing to class.
John
Message 8
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| Subject: | Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
Just wanted to pass on my lessons learned with the Flyweight Sky-Tec starter
that failed (bent shaft designed to fail that way in the event of kickback).
I did a lot of research on-line and found numerous similar problems of
kickback when using at least one electronic ignition system. Many messages,
including one from Sky-Tec, recommended starting the engine on the mag then
turning on the electronic ignition once started, or at least after several
swings of the prop. Seems like a huge hassle to me and certainly not
standard. Especially when you consider one of the advantages of having an
electronic ignition is easier starting, why isolate it? The reason for all
of this stems from the incredible current drain from the starter. I looked
at the specs on Sky-Tec's website and the flyweight (LS) model lists 185-285
amps whereas the high torque (wound vs. LS's permanent magnet) starter is
125-185 amps.
So, I called Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and left a message with my
findings and my thought that I should upgrade starters while mine was back
at his shop for repair. Without further discussion, he had Judy (still at
Aero Sport, I wish the GRT folks had left someone behind to man the office
during Oshkosh! I could have been flying at least a week sooner) ship me
the newer High Torque Sky-Tec starter ASAP and then left me message that he
agreed with my findings and was sending me the other starter (no charge!).
Judy indicated that this was becoming fairly common with this setup.
Lessons learned - customer support at Aero Sport is nothing short of
incredible. I could not have asked for more each time I contact them.
Also, I would recommend against the super lightweight Sky-Tec model if you
have other than the standard factory style dual mag, non-cosmic engine
monitoring system setup (just my .02 on that one).
Marcus
40286
If I can ever get my GRT wired properly I'll be ready for the inspection.
Anyone that knows how to get the fuel levels to read on a GRT EIS feeding
the EFIS, I'd sure appreciate the info!
Do not archive
Message 9
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Ok John... without naming names... what specifically are you seeing
that constitutes a low "quality build"... as I certainly don't want
to wind up on that list when I take to the sky.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Finishing Fuel Tanks
On Jul 29, 2006, at 6:00 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
> Bob send me the attendance list from last night and the tab. My
> Paypal account is in good shape and I clearly missed the mark.
> With the lowered expectations in quality builds this year, I am
> actually glad not to have seen my 20 RV-10s. Would rather have the
> quality, safer aircraft and smarter builders.
>
> Rushing to class.
>
> John
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: RV-List: N710RV First Flight |
Russ, congratulations!!!!!!
John Jessen
do not archive
_____
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 4:42 PM
First flight went off without a hitch today. Felt great. Plans are to fly
every day for the next two weeks, either before or after work on the real
job.
Russ Daves
Message 11
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net>
hi john,
I too would like to know what to avoid ending up doing - since I am a
first time builder. Would very much like to have a few pointers to "if
it comes out like this you're doing it wrong".
Simon
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> Ok John... without naming names... what specifically are you seeing
> that constitutes a low "quality build"... as I certainly don't want to
> wind up on that list when I take to the sky.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
> Finishing Fuel Tanks
>
>
> On Jul 29, 2006, at 6:00 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
>
>> Bob send me the attendance list from last night and the tab. My
>> Paypal account is in good shape and I clearly missed the mark. With
>> the lowered expectations in quality builds this year, I am actually
>> glad not to have seen my 20 RV-10s. Would rather have the quality,
>> safer aircraft and smarter builders.
>>
>> Rushing to class.
>>
>> John
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | RV-10 Quality @ OSH -w/ appoligies to John Cox |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I know this was directed to John but let me take a crack at it. My son
and I just returned from OSH. BTW a MIGHTY THANKS to Bob Condrey, Gary
Spectater, and Tim Olsen for organizing RV10 HQ. The highlight of the
trip for me was being able to meet all of the RV-10 builders and to put
names with faces. 3-4 times each day, through the contact with you guys,
I learned something, valuable, that I wouldn't have learned if I hadn't
been there, THANKS again to all who so willingly shared their knowledge
and time.
Re. the quality issue, There is no one or two specific things, that you
can point to, but the quality of the workmanship is easily apparent to
any builder. Seams that don't match, wrinkled metal, pop rivets holding
windows to their frames, surfaces not prepared, sanded smooth/filled
before painting.finishing. Wings skins not 'scarfed' per the plans,
these are just a few that come to mind quickly. When looking at these
planes, they scream that they were put together with speed to completion
as the primary goal, pride of workmanship obviously took a holiday, and
one immediately begins to ask oneself, " If these readily visible
shortcuts were taken, what shortcuts that aren't so apparent were also
taken?" Van makes a GREAT kit, the RV-10 plans are the best and most
complete in the industry, 99.9% of the parts will almost 'put them
selves together (NOT applicable to the fiberglass pieces!!!!!). I'm
confident that any INDIVIDUAL OWNER/BUILDER who takes a modicum of pride
in their work, and who keeps safety in front of timelines can produce
planes with the quality that we saw in Tim's, Vic's and Debby's, and
Mike's examples. All of the foregoing examples showed wide differences
in the individuals preferences and choices, but NONE of them showed any
signs of carelessness. This list is an EXTREMELY valuable source of
information and knowledge regarding anything that you are not certain
of. John Cox has been an outspoken proponent on this site about NOT
taking shortcuts, and he is quick to call attention to anything that
infringes on Safety. Seeing these quality completions @ OSH inspired me
to come back home 'stay the course' and do the best job I'm capable of.
THANKS again to those of you who have led the way and established the
standard!
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Finishing/Panel
http://deemsrv10.com/
Simon Barber wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net>
>
> hi john,
>
> I too would like to know what to avoid ending up doing - since I am a
> first time builder. Would very much like to have a few pointers to "if
> it comes out like this you're doing it wrong".
>
> Simon
>
>
> Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
>> Ok John... without naming names... what specifically are you seeing
>> that constitutes a low "quality build"... as I certainly don't want
>> to wind up on that list when I take to the sky.
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter
>> 40304
>> Finishing Fuel Tanks
>>
>>
>> On Jul 29, 2006, at 6:00 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
>>
>>> Bob send me the attendance list from last night and the tab. My
>>> Paypal account is in good shape and I clearly missed the mark. With
>>> the lowered expectations in quality builds this year, I am actually
>>> glad not to have seen my 20 RV-10s. Would rather have the quality,
>>> safer aircraft and smarter builders.
>>>
>>> Rushing to class.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | RV-10 Quality @ OSH -w/ appoligies to John Cox |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Deems, thanks for this.
I wrote John off line urging him to make a similar statement. Now, I don't
think he really needs to. However, not being there, and often not
understanding what lies behind a statement about this or that, is often
extremely frustrating. We do have Tim's site and mine and yours and others
to check before moving onto another section, another page, but here's what
I'd really like to see happen so that as a building community we can benefit
enormously from the expertise out there:
When someone with technical knowledge makes a statement about a technique or
procedure that is not in the plans (or even if it is in the plans and it is
IMPORTANT for people to pay attention to) that they believe would be best to
consider doing, because of their knowledge and expert experience of such
things, for it would help not only the build quality, but especially the
safety and integrity of the planes (a simple example would be fabricating
and using a doubler for the antennae, which was pointed out by John), then
these people need not only to raise the topic, but explain and even
demonstrate what they are talking about through a series of still pictures.
I would be more than happy to include these (and in fact have begun to do
so) in a special section of my web site, or simply make reference to Tim's
and have them all put there. In my opinion, there needs to be a list of
these aircraft building pearls of wisdom, each properly documented. I know.
I know. These are experimental planes and thus anyone can do, more or less,
what they want. And a ton of information resides in the archives. And what
is good for the airlines may not be good for or needed for GA. But...we are
a community of individuals who care for each other's safety, not just
quality, and each time something comes up that should be a building "must
do" let's get it out in the open for all and documented.
I'm probably overstating things. I just want everyone to be very well
informed. Choices of engines, panel goodies, paint, etc., are up to the
builder. But the airframe and how to "do it right" should be available to
all.
John J
Tailcone
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 10:50 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I know this was directed to John but let me take a crack at it. My son and I
just returned from OSH. BTW a MIGHTY THANKS to Bob Condrey, Gary Spectater,
and Tim Olsen for organizing RV10 HQ. The highlight of the trip for me was
being able to meet all of the RV-10 builders and to put names with faces.
3-4 times each day, through the contact with you guys, I learned something,
valuable, that I wouldn't have learned if I hadn't been there, THANKS again
to all who so willingly shared their knowledge and time.
Re. the quality issue, There is no one or two specific things, that you can
point to, but the quality of the workmanship is easily apparent to any
builder. Seams that don't match, wrinkled metal, pop rivets holding windows
to their frames, surfaces not prepared, sanded smooth/filled before
painting.finishing. Wings skins not 'scarfed' per the plans, these are just
a few that come to mind quickly. When looking at these planes, they scream
that they were put together with speed to completion as the primary goal,
pride of workmanship obviously took a holiday, and one immediately begins
to ask oneself, " If these readily visible shortcuts were taken, what
shortcuts that aren't so apparent were also taken?" Van makes a GREAT kit,
the RV-10 plans are the best and most complete in the industry, 99.9% of the
parts will almost 'put them selves together (NOT applicable to the
fiberglass pieces!!!!!). I'm confident that any INDIVIDUAL OWNER/BUILDER who
takes a modicum of pride in their work, and who keeps safety in front of
timelines can produce planes with the quality that we saw in Tim's, Vic's
and Debby's, and Mike's examples. All of the foregoing examples showed wide
differences in the individuals preferences and choices, but NONE of them
showed any signs of carelessness. This list is an EXTREMELY valuable source
of information and knowledge regarding anything that you are not certain of.
John Cox has been an outspoken proponent on this site about NOT taking
shortcuts, and he is quick to call attention to anything that infringes on
Safety. Seeing these quality completions @ OSH inspired me to come back home
'stay the course' and do the best job I'm capable of.
THANKS again to those of you who have led the way and established the
standard!
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Finishing/Panel
http://deemsrv10.com/
Simon Barber wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net>
>
> hi john,
>
> I too would like to know what to avoid ending up doing - since I am a
> first time builder. Would very much like to have a few pointers to "if
> it comes out like this you're doing it wrong".
>
> Simon
>
>
> Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
>> Ok John... without naming names... what specifically are you seeing
>> that constitutes a low "quality build"... as I certainly don't want
>> to wind up on that list when I take to the sky.
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter
>> 40304
>> Finishing Fuel Tanks
>>
>>
>> On Jul 29, 2006, at 6:00 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
>>
>>> Bob send me the attendance list from last night and the tab. My
>>> Paypal account is in good shape and I clearly missed the mark. With
>>> the lowered expectations in quality builds this year, I am actually
>>> glad not to have seen my 20 RV-10s. Would rather have the quality,
>>> safer aircraft and smarter builders.
>>>
>>> Rushing to class.
>>>
>>> John
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | W-1007E extends beyond rear spar flange. pg 15-3 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
Hi Deems...
http://www.deemsrv10.com/15-3s1-4.html
I noticed on your construction log where you had a problem with the
W-1007E flange being longer than the rear spar flange by 1-10". Van's
actually had to ship a new rear spar for you.
I have the same issue, extends beyond by 1-16" on BOTH left and right
wing doublers. The pictures below show a similar issue as yours. You can
see the doubler is flush against the spar in one of the pics. You can
click on each of the slide photos to get the full-sized 1024x768
picture.
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/wingkit/photos/IMG_4366.html
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/wingkit/photos/IMG_4367.html
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/wingkit/photos/IMG_4368.html
http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/wingkit/photos/IMG_4369.html
I am wondering if anyone else had this similar issue. It did not seem
like much of an issue to me, until I happened across your web page.
Van's agreeing that it warranted shipment of a new rear spar, obviously,
makes me nervous.
Did anyone else see this issue?
Thanks,
Jae
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: W-1007E extends beyond rear spar flange. pg 15-3 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Jae,The real problem is not just that the doubler extends beyong the
spar cap, but when they make these parts ALL of the holes are
punched/drilled prior to bending, and when the bends get made wrong,
(which is what is causing the problem) it will shift all of the holes,
some might be tempted to match drill lthe holes into the doubler and
continue, but all of these holes will be misalligned with the skins,
when it come time to put them on, check to make sure this isn't the case
with the parts you get, (I'm a bit surprised to see this problem showing
up in later wing kits).
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Finishing/Panel
http://deemsrv10.com/
Jae Chang wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>
>Hi Deems...
>
>http://www.deemsrv10.com/15-3s1-4.html
>
>I noticed on your construction log where you had a problem with the
>W-1007E flange being longer than the rear spar flange by 1-10". Van's
>actually had to ship a new rear spar for you.
>
>I have the same issue, extends beyond by 1-16" on BOTH left and right
>wing doublers. The pictures below show a similar issue as yours. You can
>see the doubler is flush against the spar in one of the pics. You can
>click on each of the slide photos to get the full-sized 1024x768
>picture.
>
>http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/wingkit/photos/IMG_4366.html
>http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/wingkit/photos/IMG_4367.html
>http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/wingkit/photos/IMG_4368.html
>http://www.jline.com/log/aviation/build/wingkit/photos/IMG_4369.html
>
>I am wondering if anyone else had this similar issue. It did not seem
>like much of an issue to me, until I happened across your web page.
>Van's agreeing that it warranted shipment of a new rear spar, obviously,
>makes me nervous.
>
>Did anyone else see this issue?
>
>Thanks,
>Jae
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Rookie questions |
Correction on the website address. And by the way as of right now I
have yet to spend money with them. It is www.tinmantech.com. Kent is
one of the world's finest metalsmiths. He gives classes at OSH which
would blow just about anyone away. Go to the EAA Airventure website and
review the teaching schedule and class content. I spent most of my OSH
time just absorbing from his classes.
I am so confident that I am about to invest in his DVD library and will
share on loan those which I purchase.
Now back to John Jessen's post... no malice taken. It was a group
process to view and kabitz the level of workmanship on the 9 birds at
OSH. Several of those builders could care less. They care not about
the intent of the 51% rule. They are motivated by financial gain.
In my 34 years in aviation I have lost 16 friends and acquaintences and
several were extremely close. Kent White was hired for the special
project of building the HK1 Hughes Racer. Jim Wright of Oregon (and a
friend) was lost due to a series of repeatable errors which should have
never happened.
I do not espouse the coulda, shoulda, woulda, wish I had said something
approach. There are pictures which will be posted to let passionate,
first time builders escape the kabitzing. Unless you understand the
devastating consequence to the Lancair IV builders when just a few cut
corners you have no idea how significant this corner cutting can reduce
or eliminate your ability to insure your final production. I will stand
up and take the hits just like I did for 23 years as an FAA Pilot
Examiner. I just finished a memorial service for a comrade who died
exactly one year ago.
Keep pounding... Its a great kit. Never cut a corner unless you know
the outcome. Ask those who heard VAN speak at dinner Thursday night.
The margins built in are not to be reduced lightly.
John Cox - $00.02
________________________________
Sent: Sat 7/29/2006 5:52 AM
One only needs to attend one of Kent White's classes at OSH
(www.tinman.com) to know that 2024 has memory and it will talk back.
Doublers are a requirement on Certified aircraft for a reason.
Homebuilders are experimenters and the results are documented.
The RV-4 builders a few years ago learned this lesson on their trailing
edge, control surface rivets when they stress cracked. Every builder
can do which technique they want... hence the few atrocious builds of
RV-10s at OSH this year. The key phrase is YET! Doublers are simple,
based in logic and compliant with the simplest rules of physics.
Have fun building... I am rushing to another Kent White class on
installing louvers into aluminum cowls. I would bet it will be 3003
because of the 2024 memory.
Just a thought
John Cox - $00.02
________________________________
Darcy
Sent: Sat 7/29/2006 2:52 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy"
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
I see a lot of builders are putting doublers on however I didnt on my 6
and
never had a problem. Might put one on the 10 not sure yet.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:08 AM
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Paul Grimstad"
<bldgrv10450@comcast.net>
>
> Sean
> I'm sure your not alone as a builder / student pilot. I am enjoying
the
> same program. I have been told that antennas should have a doubler
plate
> to help disburse the vibration and avoid stress cracking of the skin.
I
> will also look forward to the stream on this subject.
> Paul Grimstad
> RV10 40450 Tailcone complete / bolting up the tail feathers
> do not archive
> ----- Original Message -----
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 9:53 AM
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: <seanblair@adelphia.net>
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am one of those rare people you might consider crazy that is
building a
>> plane and learning to fly at the same time. Don't worry...I'll get
my
>> time and transition training in well before I jump into the 10.
>>
>> Because of my inexperience, I run into things in the build with
systems
>> that I do not have alot of knowledge about yet. One of these are all
the
>> antennaes and their placement in the airframe.
>>
>> Is there a list of the antennaes I will need and their possible
>> locations/functions? I am well into the fuselage construction and
need
>> to start thinking of where to mount things and possible wire/coax
runs.
>> I intend to go pretty heavily on the capabilities of this plane. IFR
and
>> lots of glass in the panel.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>>
>> Sean Blair
>> #40225
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
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==========
Message 17
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| Subject: | OSH Update 7/29/06 |
Quick Bob,send me that bar bill before the whole list signs up. I am
sitting in Ohare returning west right now.
John
________________________________
Sent: Sat 7/29/2006 5:39 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Big news discovered yesterday is that the Avidyne folks will sell
Integra systems for installation in an RV-10. Don't really have many
details since the booth folks just found out. Price quoted at the booth
was $30K for the PFD and $15K for the 5000 MFD. A lot of money for
sure, but probably competitive with a G900 setup after you add radios.
Just for the photo collection I've added pictures of Noel Simmons'
N325HP and Jon Stewart's planes. Also an update of RV-10 HQ - it's
gotten a little crowed here. Finally, a set of pictures of Stein's gas
engine powered couch.
We are planning on leaving mid-day today so this will probably be my
last update.
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50526#50526
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_10_hq_996.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sofa2_109.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stewart_754.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n325hp_engine_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n325hp_502.jpg
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
=========================
==========
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Loss of Jim Wright |
Most should already know the story. His one of a kind replica took the
finest craftsmen in every craft to make the HK-1. Many watched in
amazement as it was built. At OSH we just watched it sit the whole
week.
Flown to OSH, parked for a week with bureaucratic red tape from the FAA
which prohibited a proper fly-off. Flown back to Oregon. Refueled, one
bolt led to a required forced landing. Site was identified, final
approach was set. Spectators ran out to photograph. Jim diverted so as
not to kill the $@&* photograpers. The rest is aviation history.
Same year Shannon K flying (what in my opinion was the finest
workmanship and) the prettiest Lancair Legacy 2000 EVER. Was told by
his friends of a critical engine flaw. Filled with fuel. Left the same
OSH as Jim. Wouldn't deviate. Lost the engine over Madison. Hit a
light standard in a car dealership parking lot and cartwheeled.
Leaving OSH can be risky. Listen to your inner voice. Cut no corners.
Let's toast a drink of your choice at next year when we bring out the
new Nanchang CJ-6 and give Tim's wife the ride of her life (after
extensive fly off).
Russ my hat and heart is with you on every hour. Congratulations.
Flying remains a remarkable, safe and extraordinarily exciting
adventure.
John
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
You had kickback because your ignition isn't setup right. Kickback
occurs when the engine fires with the normal 20-25 degrees before TDC
during cranking. Any mag or electronic system that doesn't switch to
firing AT TDC during cranking should be turned OFF during cranking.
Engines that use a retard breaker on the left mag wire the switch to
turn off the right mag during cranking. Ditto engines with only one
impulse coupling. If your electronic ignition doesn't have an automatic
retard during cranking, it should be grounded during cranking. The
starter isn't at fault...it is the fault of the ignition design/setup.
If the starter didn't have a shear pin, the kickback would likely damage
the starter gear and destroy the starter.
KM
A&P/IA
Marcus Cooper wrote:
> Just wanted to pass on my lessons learned with the Flyweight Sky-Tec
> starter that failed (bent shaft designed to fail that way in the event
> of kickback). I did a lot of research on-line and found numerous
> similar problems of kickback when using at least one electronic ignition
> system. Many messages, including one from Sky-Tec, recommended starting
> the engine on the mag then turning on the electronic ignition once
> started, or at least after several swings of the prop. Seems like a
> huge hassle to me and certainly not standard. Especially when you
> consider one of the advantages of having an electronic ignition is
> easier starting, why isolate it? The reason for all of this stems from
> the incredible current drain from the starter. I looked at the specs on
> Sky-Tecs website and the flyweight (LS) model lists 185-285 amps
> whereas the high torque (wound vs. LSs permanent magnet) starter is
> 125-185 amps.
>
>
>
> So, I called Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and left a message with my
> findings and my thought that I should upgrade starters while mine was
> back at his shop for repair. Without further discussion, he had Judy
> (still at Aero Sport, I wish the GRT folks had left someone behind to
> man the office during Oshkosh! I could have been flying at least a week
> sooner) ship me the newer High Torque Sky-Tec starter ASAP and then
> left me message that he agreed with my findings and was sending me the
> other starter (no charge!). Judy indicated that this was becoming
> fairly common with this setup.
>
>
>
> Lessons learned customer support at Aero Sport is nothing short of
> incredible. I could not have asked for more each time I contact them.
> Also, I would recommend against the super lightweight Sky-Tec model if
> you have other than the standard factory style dual mag, non-cosmic
> engine monitoring system setup (just my .02 on that one).
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> 40286
>
>
>
> If I can ever get my GRT wired properly Ill be ready for the
> inspection. Anyone that knows how to get the fuel levels to read on a
> GRT EIS feeding the EFIS, Id sure appreciate the info!
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: OSH Update 7/29/06 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
We will as soon as we're finished...
Bob
--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sat Jul 29 13:44:39 2006
Quick Bob,send me that bar bill before the whole list signs up. I am sitting in
Ohare returning west right now.
John
________________________________
Sent: Sat 7/29/2006 5:39 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
Big news discovered yesterday is that the Avidyne folks will sell Integra systems
for installation in an RV-10. Don't really have many details since the booth
folks just found out. Price quoted at the booth was $30K for the PFD and $15K
for the 5000 MFD. A lot of money for sure, but probably competitive with
a G900 setup after you add radios.
Just for the photo collection I've added pictures of Noel Simmons' N325HP and Jon
Stewart's planes. Also an update of RV-10 HQ - it's gotten a little crowed
here. Finally, a set of pictures of Stein's gas engine powered couch.
We are planning on leaving mid-day today so this will probably be my last update.
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50526#50526
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_10_hq_996.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/sofa2_109.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/stewart_754.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n325hp_engine_170.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/n325hp_502.jpg
===================================
===================================
===================================
===================================
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Throttle quadrant |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
When I did the quadrant I installed the cables in a "V" shape. The
two outer holes at the top, and then one centered below. I used
eyeball vents. The reason for the V is just that the original
3 holes are too close together to do 3 with eyeballs. If you already
enlarged them, then drilling the eyeball holes may make a mess of your
firewall like I did. Just rivet a patch in place that's big enough
to accomodate all 3 and drill them again and you should be fine. I
had a chewed up firewall from holes running together, so I had to
clean it up and put in a patch as above, which worked just fine.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Sean Blair wrote:
> When installing the throttle quadrant, are the cables routed through the
> firewall recess in the stock location? If not, where? I think I heard
> they dont take the same route and of course already enlarged the stock
> holes per the plans. Whats the fix if necessary?
>
> Once again..thanks!
>
> Sean Blair
>
> #40225
>
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Off-Field -10, more info |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Spoke to someone at OSH yesterday a bit on tunnel temps and the
relation to that off-field landing a while back with a -10 in
California. As it turned out, it sounds like vapor lock
was not an issue. I heard that the valve guides on 5 of 6
cylinders were not the proper size and were too loose, and there
was evidence of heat stress on the valves. So in that case they're
not suspecting vapor lock as was previously contemplated.
Just wanted to pass things along. I'll be shooting out some of
the things that came up at OSh as I can get through the backlog
of -10 list mail.
Tim
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Grand Rapids Wiring |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Marcus,
Sorry I couldn't reply sooner. Here's a file that you might want:
http://www.myrv10.com/files/GRT/GRT_Probes_Install.tif
It's a multi-page .tif and shows how to hook up most of the
special probes, including that 4.8 V. source.
Not sure what you might have going on the RPM readout though. I
have mine directly connected to the Lightspeed from the input
to the EIS 6000. Make sure Tack P/R is 3. Giving a Zero
readout makes me wonder if there's not a mis-wiring issue
though, or perhaps if you're grounding the keyswitch option
wire on the Lightspeed and it's not firing. I only took the
tach input from the lightspeed and just guess and check
by ear on the mag side. So when I turn the key to turn off
the lightspeed, my RPM readout drops to zero. You can hear
when going to ground the mag that the lightspeed idles it
at a higher RPM. The most important thing is that the
engine sounds like it's not losing lots of RPM and runs
smooth on the mag, so I didn't care to do the gymnastics
of hooking it to both.
Just FYI, here's an old (now unverified recently) list of the
settings in my EIS6000. You may find it handy.
Tim
Aux1 ManP
Aux2 LEFT
Aux3 RITE
Aux4 Fpsi
Aux5 AMPS
Aux6
Units IFG
FC1 0
FC2 0
FloCal 200
FloCalR 0
Tach P/R 3
Peak 10
Max Fuel 60
HRS 29.8
Tim-RPM 0
AspdLo 0
AspdHI 0
TachLo 0
TachHi 0
1SF 198
1OFF 64
2SF 44
2OFF 119
3SF 47
3OFF 127
4SF 63
4OFF 47
5SF 93
5OFF 177
6SF 0
6OFF 0
I/D DIIDII
+/- +--+++
AltCor 128
ID1 Tach
IP1 1
ID2 Ax1
1P2 6
1D3 Ax2
1P3 10
1D4 CHH
1P4 14
1D5 OT
1P5 17
1D6 /
1P6 20
1D7 OP
1P7 21
1D8 Flow
1P8 24
1D9 EGH
1P9 29
1D10 OFF
1P10 0
1D11 OFF
1P11 0
1D12 OFF
1P12 0
2D1 Tach
2P1 1
1D2 Crb
2P2 6
2D3 Oat
2P3 10
2D4 CHH
2P4 14
2D5 OT
2P5 17
2D6 /
2P6 20
2D7 OP
2P7 21
2D8 Volt
2P8 24
2D9 EGH
2P9 29
2D10 Off
2P10 0
2D11 Off
2P11 0
2D12 Off
2P12 0
GD1 CHH
GP1 9
GD2 EGH
GP2 13
GD3 Tach
GP3 17
GD4 Off
GP4 0
GD5 Ax1
GP5 23
GD6 Flow
GP6 29
GD7 Off
GP7 0
GD8 Off
GP8 0
GD9 Off
GP9 0
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Marcus Cooper wrote:
> I have the GRT EFIS and EIS and cant seem to brake the code on wiring
> the fuel level wiring. As luck would have it, all the folks are at
> Oshkosh and not available for questions.
>
>
>
> I suspect that I need to use the 4.8V source wire but I cant find how
> to employ it in the instructions. Does it just get tied to the wire
> going the tank level sensor?
>
>
>
> Also, when I ran the engine, my RPM showed 0. I have the signal wire
> tied to the digital RPM signal from the Lightspeed output and the EIS
> Tach is set to 0 for 6 cyl Lycoming.
>
>
>
> If anyone has any experience with this Id sure appreciate any and all
> guidance.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> Desperately close and yet so far it seems
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Starter Problem - update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Yeah, it looks like not much gear meshing going on. I saw
the other posts about talking to aerosport and the bent shaft
thing. I'll have to catch up on the thread, but if the shaft
isn't bent, my next step would be to make sure it's mounted as
close as it needs to be.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John W. Cox wrote:
> Marcus, I am at OSH and the connection is poor but your picture
> indicates the starter is mounted about 0.25" low of the flywheel.
> With the mount the way it is, I would think this starter gear has a
> smaller diameter than necessary. Aerosport should be good about a
> correction.
>
> John Cox
>
> ________________________________
>
> Sent: Sun 7/23/2006 5:29 PM
>
>
>
> I took a hard look at the starter again and there appears to be no
> damage anywhere, other than what you get when spinning parts touch
> each other without engaging. No cracks, etc. I've attached a couple
> pictures in case that helps someone decipher what's going on.
>
>
>
> It is a Sky-tec starter on an Aerosport IO-540A4D5. I was wondering
> if there's any chance the starter comes with different size gears and
> perhaps I got the smaller version? The odd thing is it worked great
> for awhile. I cranked it for almost 10 seconds before I realized
> fuel wasn't getting to the engine yet and it spun great. Then it
> worked a few more times before the engine came to life. After that
> it was nothing but trouble.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marcus
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
> th
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus
> Cooper Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 8:07 PM
>
>
>
> I finally got to start my engine today for the first time which was
> quite motivational. However, after letting it run for a couple
> minutes and checking it over for leaks I tried to start it again.
> This time I was greeted by a horrendous squeal and the prop not
> spinning as fast as before while starting. I shut it all down and it
> appears the starter is no longer engaging properly. It wore a little
> of the outside aft edge of the flywheel and looks like either the
> starter gear is too small, or somehow it suddenly was able to drift a
> little further from the flywheel and no longer mates up properly.
> The starter mount nuts look secure and the factory paint cues are
> still in place so I am stumped. With the starter gear retracted it
> looks like the gears will just barely overlap when it extends.
>
>
>
> I am open to any and all thoughts, theories and suggestions.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Marcus
>
> (was hoping to get inspected today, delayed until next weekend -
> possibly more pending the engine issue)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do Not Archive
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Inspection completed! |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Mark,
From what I've heard, 435 is near the max you'll see in a well
set up IO-540, in a full power climb. So you're probably fine
with your new engine. I've seen 217 once on a hot day long
climb, but usually my Oil temp is 185-195. Don't worry as
much until you put 5 hours on it and it's starting to break
in a little. Those first few will be hot from what I hear.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Mark Ritter wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter"
>
> Thanks. First couple of hours went great. Oil temp (217) and a couple
> of CHT's (430) a little higher than I would like but I understand they
> should come down with time. Plane is flying hands off.
>
> Mark (N410MR)
>
> Do not archive
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I just got back from Van's booth and Innodyne today.
I've decided to build another RV-10 and this time do it
right, so I paid in full for a quickbuild -10, and paid
in full for an Innodyne system. I'm sending it to our
favorite Oklahoma -10 building professional so I should
have my completed RV-10 to fly within a few months.
(now how serious do you think I'm being?)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
jdalton77 wrote:
> Innodyn's web site says they won't have a booth of their own.
>
> Boy oh boy I WISH their engine was real . . .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Tim Dawson-Townsend <mailto:Tdawson@avidyne.com>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 10:40 AM
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials
>
> Interestingly enough, I dont see Crossflow listed on the Oshkosh
> Exhibitors list!
>
> Innodyn is on there, though . . .
>
>
>
> TDT
> 40025
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *David
> McNeill
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 10:29 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials
>
>
>
> Sounds like the USA based version of Crossflow?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 7:16 AM
>
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials
>
>
>
> Oh boy do I have some history. Jan booted me from his list
> for asking him to validate his ever changing HP numbers on his
> H6 for the -10. One of his cheerleaders tried to publicly flog
> me and I responded with a very straightforward set of comments.
> Jan then said he wouldnt allow one of his friends to be
> publically humiliated but he apparently had no problem with a
> potential customer being so. And no, he will never give dyno
> numbers. He doesnt feel it is necessary. As far as
> non-delivery, do a search of websites of people that have his
> engines and you will find plenty of instances where he did not
> meet promised delivery dates. One of his best supporters even
> received the supercharger well after the engine delivery (which
> was also late) pushing things out a year. Oh and the complete
> firewall forward package apparently wasnt so complete either.
> Im sure Jan knows who this is and he hopefully wont threaten
> him to take down the site.
>
>
>
> My comment below is no surprise to anyone who has done any
> type of due diligence on his offerings. I made my decision to
> go with a Lycoming after spending a couple months talking to a
> dozen people flying Eggs engine and hanging around on his list.
> Anytime someone spoke up on that list they were slammed back
> down. I was contacted by several people off list to keep asking
> the hard questions because they had already ordered and were
> afraid they would be denied service for questioning the status quo.
>
>
>
> Im not anti-Eggenfeller as I still feel he has the best
> chance of producing an alternative engine package but its time
> for him to grow up his business and start PROVING the
> capabilities he touts. I am also not saying that his engine
> does not meet the performance he claims, after all no one has
> dyno numbers on any of his engines so there is no way to tell.
> I will say that the recent RVator article helps to shed some
> light on things. I have the full history of the email
> conversations in question and anyone who wants to contact me off
> list for a copy is welcome to do so.
>
>
>
> James, Im guessing you already ordered one of his engines?
> If not, I strongly suggest you do some serious background
> research. In reality the only thing you get from his package is
> an alternative engine package that can keep MP to altitude. The
> cost isnt much different, the fuel flows wont be much
> different, and the performance wont be much different from a
> Lycoming. What will be different is the resale value, expect it
> to be much less.
>
>
>
> Oh ya, this dog hunts just fine.
>
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
> RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> Recent RV-10 Build Activity
> <http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *James Clark
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 8:28 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials
>
>
>
> Micheal,
>
> It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with
> Jan.
>
> For those that are considering his product, this post comes
> across as not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are
> accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the case why not just
> say what the facts are?
>
> I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you
> request.
>
> James
> ... no dog in this hunt
>
> On 7/17/06, *RV Builder (Michael Sausen) *<rvbuilder@sausen.net
> <mailto:rvbuilder@sausen.net>> wrote:
>
> Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.
> I'm shocked! Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably
> not huh. Now how about some dyno numbers?
>
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
> RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage
>
> Do Not Archive
>
> Recent RV-10 Build Activity
> <http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
> *EAAINC@aol.com <mailto:EAAINC@aol.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials
>
>
>
> I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have
> turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale
> at Oshkosh this year. Deliveries are available for December
> with 50% deposits.
>
>
>
> Jan
>
>
>
>
> --
> This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> james@nextupventures.com <mailto:james@nextupventures.com> .
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: OSH Update 7/28/06 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Don't forget Paul and Jesse who's planes both left me feeling
very comfortable with their workmanship. They both looked
very nice.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John W. Cox wrote:
> I am eating my words as you read this and owe everyone a Cold One for
> the failure of the estimate. However there were three Atrocious
> RV-10s with poor workmanship which means its better to keep that
> number low until the quality of build QOB comes up to VANS standards.
> Many builders simply do not respond on this list.
>
> Then again Vic, Debbie and Tim have shown how great this kit can turn
> out.
>
> John Cox - KUAO on 24 hours
>
> ________________________________
>
> Sent: Fri 7/28/2006 8:42 AM
>
>
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "bcondrey"
> <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
>
> Not much to say after the engine update post from last night. We
> have had some new arrivals camping at RV-10 HQ so I took a new
> picture of that. Dan Lloyd is in the popup camper between the motor
> homes and Tim Olson's tent is in the rear half of that site. Adrian
> Moses along with a couple of friends are in tents on the other side
> of Gary's motorhome. Total count right now is at 11 customer built
> RV-10s: Recent arrivals include the Monarch (picture attached), Noel
> Simmons N325HP and Jon Stewart's. There may be one more but I
> haven't seen it. Doesn't look like we'll make John Cox's prediction
> of 20.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50332#50332
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rv_10_hq_188.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/monarch_752.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ====================================
> ====================================
> ====================================
> ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: W-1011 and rear spar holes are not matched |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
You're very welcome, and you're welcome again too to all of the people
who expressed their thanks at OSH. I really enjoy helping in the way
that I am most able. My most interesting thank you of the week came
from Mr. "Flash" Gordon, who's building a -10 in IL. He's a Chicago
Center controller who's worked OSH a few years and gave me the very
kindly surprise of the gift of one of the pink OSH "Tower" controller
shirts. It's one of those things that brings a huge smile, and
I'll never forget. For you all though, don't feel that you owe
me anything....because it's from other builders that I got the
ability to build the -10. I could not have done it as well without
those who have gone before...especially Randy.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rene wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene" <rene@felker.com>
>
> Jae, if you are scratching your head now.......when you get to the fuselage
> you will pull your hair out. My impression is that as you move through the
> project more and more is assumed. I have gotten into the habit of reviewing
> Tim's site before I start a section to better understand what is being done
> in each section.
>
> Thanks Tim for a great resource
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Rene'
> 40322
> wings, fuselage and finish all at the same time.......
> 801-721-6080
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
> Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 8:59 PM
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>
> Jim... Response is much appreciated!
>
> I am finding the wing plans are not flowing as well for me, for some
> reason. I am scratching my head often as to the order of certain steps,
> or their lack there of. Thus, I am being extra careful due to my onset
> of some form of dyslexia!
>
> Thanks again!
> Jae
> Do not archive
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <jim@combsfive.com>
>
> My rear spar and rib have the same "issue". Drill the new holes and
> move on.
>
> As they say in soccer, Play on!
>
> Jim Combs
> N312F
> #40192 - Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hey again Marcus,
I think I have the HT version of starter from Aerosport, with
no problems. Bart suggested it, initially, when I poked around
looking for starter choices.
As for the keyswitch wiring, I'm having great luck with the
wiring that I have, and it allows me to start on the Lightspeed,
and is also starting with the Mag. I don't think this is
a problem, as the lightspeed should be self-retarding and
advancing based on MP. I'm no expert, but it's worked well
and I'm now only 3 hours away from 100. Not all people are
comfortable with the keyswitch wiring, due to the mysterious
grounding...very hard to explain without opening that can
of worms again. Anyway, it works fine for me and shuts
down the mags properly, so until I can find a better keyswitch
not designed to ground the right mag during start, I'm sticking
with it.
I wish you lots of luck and keep me posted. As for your fuel
tank wiring, I shot you some stuff off a bit ago and hopefully
it'll help. If you're getting stuck, you can call me as I'll
be around now since I'm home from OSH.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Marcus Cooper wrote:
> Just wanted to pass on my lessons learned with the Flyweight Sky-Tec
> starter that failed (bent shaft designed to fail that way in the event
> of kickback). I did a lot of research on-line and found numerous
> similar problems of kickback when using at least one electronic ignition
> system. Many messages, including one from Sky-Tec, recommended starting
> the engine on the mag then turning on the electronic ignition once
> started, or at least after several swings of the prop. Seems like a
> huge hassle to me and certainly not standard. Especially when you
> consider one of the advantages of having an electronic ignition is
> easier starting, why isolate it? The reason for all of this stems from
> the incredible current drain from the starter. I looked at the specs on
> Sky-Tecs website and the flyweight (LS) model lists 185-285 amps
> whereas the high torque (wound vs. LSs permanent magnet) starter is
> 125-185 amps.
>
>
>
> So, I called Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and left a message with my
> findings and my thought that I should upgrade starters while mine was
> back at his shop for repair. Without further discussion, he had Judy
> (still at Aero Sport, I wish the GRT folks had left someone behind to
> man the office during Oshkosh! I could have been flying at least a week
> sooner) ship me the newer High Torque Sky-Tec starter ASAP and then
> left me message that he agreed with my findings and was sending me the
> other starter (no charge!). Judy indicated that this was becoming
> fairly common with this setup.
>
>
>
> Lessons learned customer support at Aero Sport is nothing short of
> incredible. I could not have asked for more each time I contact them.
> Also, I would recommend against the super lightweight Sky-Tec model if
> you have other than the standard factory style dual mag, non-cosmic
> engine monitoring system setup (just my .02 on that one).
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> 40286
>
>
>
> If I can ever get my GRT wired properly Ill be ready for the
> inspection. Anyone that knows how to get the fuel levels to read on a
> GRT EIS feeding the EFIS, Id sure appreciate the info!
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
Second flight today in N710RV. Checked the forward tunnel area for high
temps. Used the bare leg method. Stuck my bare left leg up against the
tunnel wall and held it there for at least five minutes. No problem,
even confirmed after landing that I still had hair on my leg (just in
case my 33 month build had killed the nerves in the leg and I didn't
feel the heat).
After hearing all the tunnel heat issues raised in the posts I did the
following:
1. Bought a roll of engine gasket material at NAPA and cut out
gaskets to install between the firewall and the heat vent boxes. (Don't
remember for sure but I think this tip came from Tim Olson as 90% of the
my help tips have - Thanks Tim).
2. Installed an RTV gasket around the inside of the heat vent doors
after install by beading the RVT around the opening, placing a piece of
wax paper over the RTV and closing the door with the cable. After setup
of the RTV I removed the wax paper and re-closed the door. (Install tip
from Jesse Saint - Thanks Jesse).
3. RTV'ed around the outside of each heat vent box.
4. Installed foil faced insulation on the bottom of the tunnel floor
and over the inside of the firewall (used this method on my RV-6A
firewall after it was built and it made a huge difference). I did not
build a false floor in the tunnel, only put the insulation up to the
edge of the fuel flow transducer and fuel pump.
5. Installed sound proofing foam insulation under the floor and on
the sidewalls.
Hope these tips help.
By the way N710RV flies like a dream. Working on wheel pants and gear
leg fairings between flights.
Russ Daves
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Inspection completed! |
--- MIME Errors - No Plain-Text Section Found ---
A message with no text/plain MIME section was received.
The entire body of the message was removed. Please
resend the email using Plain Text formatting.
HOTMAIL is notorious for only including an HTML section
in their client's default configuration. If you're using
HOTMAIL, please see your email application's settings
and switch to a default mail option that uses "Plain Text".
--- MIME Errors No Plain-Text Section Found ---
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
Tim,
Thanks for all of the info, as always you have been a great help. I
tried wiring my switch like yours and it worked great and it still will shut
the engine down when turned off.
I rewired the RPM sensor to feed from the mag and that worked well also. On
another list I got the recommendation to install a switch to alternate the
RPM signal source so you can validate the mag drop. The only snag is the
signals are different pulse rates (mag vs electronic ignition) so one of the
signals will be twice the other so a little mental math will be required.
Did you inspector balk at your setup at all since you can't check the RPM on
just the mag?
The EIS programming info is awesome!
Thanks again,
Marcus
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 8:30 PM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Hey again Marcus,
I think I have the HT version of starter from Aerosport, with
no problems. Bart suggested it, initially, when I poked around
looking for starter choices.
As for the keyswitch wiring, I'm having great luck with the
wiring that I have, and it allows me to start on the Lightspeed,
and is also starting with the Mag. I don't think this is
a problem, as the lightspeed should be self-retarding and
advancing based on MP. I'm no expert, but it's worked well
and I'm now only 3 hours away from 100. Not all people are
comfortable with the keyswitch wiring, due to the mysterious
grounding...very hard to explain without opening that can
of worms again. Anyway, it works fine for me and shuts
down the mags properly, so until I can find a better keyswitch
not designed to ground the right mag during start, I'm sticking
with it.
I wish you lots of luck and keep me posted. As for your fuel
tank wiring, I shot you some stuff off a bit ago and hopefully
it'll help. If you're getting stuck, you can call me as I'll
be around now since I'm home from OSH.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Marcus Cooper wrote:
> Just wanted to pass on my lessons learned with the Flyweight Sky-Tec
> starter that failed (bent shaft designed to fail that way in the event
> of kickback). I did a lot of research on-line and found numerous
> similar problems of kickback when using at least one electronic ignition
> system. Many messages, including one from Sky-Tec, recommended starting
> the engine on the mag then turning on the electronic ignition once
> started, or at least after several swings of the prop. Seems like a
> huge hassle to me and certainly not standard. Especially when you
> consider one of the advantages of having an electronic ignition is
> easier starting, why isolate it? The reason for all of this stems from
> the incredible current drain from the starter. I looked at the specs on
> Sky-Tec's website and the flyweight (LS) model lists 185-285 amps
> whereas the high torque (wound vs. LS's permanent magnet) starter is
> 125-185 amps.
>
>
>
> So, I called Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and left a message with my
> findings and my thought that I should upgrade starters while mine was
> back at his shop for repair. Without further discussion, he had Judy
> (still at Aero Sport, I wish the GRT folks had left someone behind to
> man the office during Oshkosh! I could have been flying at least a week
> sooner) ship me the newer High Torque Sky-Tec starter ASAP and then
> left me message that he agreed with my findings and was sending me the
> other starter (no charge!). Judy indicated that this was becoming
> fairly common with this setup.
>
>
>
> Lessons learned - customer support at Aero Sport is nothing short of
> incredible. I could not have asked for more each time I contact them.
> Also, I would recommend against the super lightweight Sky-Tec model if
> you have other than the standard factory style dual mag, non-cosmic
> engine monitoring system setup (just my .02 on that one).
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> 40286
>
>
>
> If I can ever get my GRT wired properly I'll be ready for the
> inspection. Anyone that knows how to get the fuel levels to read on a
> GRT EIS feeding the EFIS, I'd sure appreciate the info!
>
>
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Quality @ OSH -w/ appoligies to John Cox |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Deems says it well here. There is no ONE thing. There's such a
variety. Most of the time, we're not talking cosmetics, although
doing a really shoddy job cosmetically never wins you points.
Most of the things that get pointed out negatively are things
where someone obviously was in a hurry, or really showed a lack
of care...not just the occasional newbie bucking bar ding. If a
builder just builds to plans, and uses all the acceptable
practices for things, they have nothing to fear. People like
Ray Doerr show up without any paint at all, rivet lines scuffed
and ready. Nobody criticizes him because his workmanship is
good, and he took care on his project. The care thing really
shows on fiberglass parts, when you obviously don't sand things
well, or don't trim wingtips and make them match the trailing
edge. On aluminum, it'll be things like not deburring things,
consistently denting your skins along rivet lines, or not
seating rivets by not dimpling skins enough...sometimes cosmetic,
and sometimes structural issues. For electrical, at OSH 2005
for example, I saw an entire bundle of wires snaked down through
the forward slot in the tunnel cover, laying snugly against
the sharp metal edge of the tunnel cover....which by other
indications on the airframe was probably not deburred much
or at all. It's a recipe for disaster, and doesn't follow
any acceptable practice. As Deems says, it's stuff that any
builder who thinks about, and puts care into building, would
notice.
It should also be noted that at this show, OSH 2006, I was
able to see workmanship of such a level that I do not know
if I could live up to it...even on my 2nd or 3rd build of
an RV-10. Debbie Dewey's RV-10 is absolutely about as perfect
as you can get. In almost every spot of her airframe, when
you pay attention to the minute details, you see perfection in
those details. Engine baffling quality, trailing edge smoothness
where you can't even see that it's 2 skins, feathering fiberglass
to aluminum transitions, fit and finish of fairings...things like
that. Professional paint jobs, and professional interiors are
just icing on the cake, not the things that are judged by builders...
nor weighed heavily by contest judges. But in her case, the
underlying airplane was built to very exceptionally high standards...
standards to which most of us will dream, but not achieve. Not
that this makes ours bad.
I had the experience of having my airplane judged this year.
It was very interesting. Lots of judges saw it, but I did
not get any awards. Would have been cool, but there are reasons
I did not get them. My airplane has been described as having
great workmanship, being very pretty, having nice paint, and
all sorts of things. But it truly isn't an award winning
showplane...and if you remember my comments in past posts during
the build, that's not what I built it for. To toot my own
horn for a second, which I rarely like to do actually, I think
of my airplane more as an example of good workmanship that is
of a level that any builder should be able to accomplish without
going above and beyond by too far. I would think that any of
you could build one as nice, and many of you will build them
nicer. I learned though, that to be a showplane, there is a
level of detail that gets so precise that I think it would be a
stretch for a first-time builder in most cases to win an
award. One of the judges walked around with me and showed me
the minor things that cause people to drop out. Very minor...
things like a flap attach bolt put in from the wrong direction.
But in the above discussion, we're not talking about the
things that keep a person from winning an award....those things
may not BE obvious to the average builder...they weren't to me,
that's for sure. The things we're talking about are things
that the average builder could see when they walk up to the
plane. So take some comfort in the fact that if you're careful,
you probably don't have much to worry about on the RV-10 to
end up with a very airworthy plane. I am very happy with
what I have, and how it flies, and it's built to a standard
that I'm comfortable with. It seems to look nice, too. Hopefully
you all can use what you learn on this forum to make yours
come out even nicer.
Example Tip: When you set flush rivets, drag a fingernail over
them, and if you snag it on the edge of that rivet, it's probably
not set deep enough. A few of these are fine, but don't
let it be a habit....dimple better. If you can't dimple it
any better, take that hole and very lightly run a countersink
tool around a couple times to help the rivet lay flush...you
want the whole rivet angle making good contact.
Build on, and just work to high standards.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> I know this was directed to John but let me take a crack at it. My son
> and I just returned from OSH. BTW a MIGHTY THANKS to Bob Condrey, Gary
> Spectater, and Tim Olsen for organizing RV10 HQ. The highlight of the
> trip for me was being able to meet all of the RV-10 builders and to put
> names with faces. 3-4 times each day, through the contact with you guys,
> I learned something, valuable, that I wouldn't have learned if I hadn't
> been there, THANKS again to all who so willingly shared their knowledge
> and time.
> Re. the quality issue, There is no one or two specific things, that you
> can point to, but the quality of the workmanship is easily apparent to
> any builder. Seams that don't match, wrinkled metal, pop rivets holding
> windows to their frames, surfaces not prepared, sanded smooth/filled
> before painting.finishing. Wings skins not 'scarfed' per the plans,
> these are just a few that come to mind quickly. When looking at these
> planes, they scream that they were put together with speed to completion
> as the primary goal, pride of workmanship obviously took a holiday, and
> one immediately begins to ask oneself, " If these readily visible
> shortcuts were taken, what shortcuts that aren't so apparent were also
> taken?" Van makes a GREAT kit, the RV-10 plans are the best and most
> complete in the industry, 99.9% of the parts will almost 'put them
> selves together (NOT applicable to the fiberglass pieces!!!!!). I'm
> confident that any INDIVIDUAL OWNER/BUILDER who takes a modicum of pride
> in their work, and who keeps safety in front of timelines can produce
> planes with the quality that we saw in Tim's, Vic's and Debby's, and
> Mike's examples. All of the foregoing examples showed wide differences
> in the individuals preferences and choices, but NONE of them showed any
> signs of carelessness. This list is an EXTREMELY valuable source of
> information and knowledge regarding anything that you are not certain
> of. John Cox has been an outspoken proponent on this site about NOT
> taking shortcuts, and he is quick to call attention to anything that
> infringes on Safety. Seeing these quality completions @ OSH inspired me
> to come back home 'stay the course' and do the best job I'm capable of.
> THANKS again to those of you who have led the way and established the
> standard!
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Fuse/Finishing/Panel
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> Simon Barber wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net>
>>
>> hi john,
>>
>> I too would like to know what to avoid ending up doing - since I am a
>> first time builder. Would very much like to have a few pointers to "if
>> it comes out like this you're doing it wrong".
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>>
>>> Ok John... without naming names... what specifically are you seeing
>>> that constitutes a low "quality build"... as I certainly don't want
>>> to wind up on that list when I take to the sky.
>>>
>>> Jeff Carpenter
>>> 40304
>>> Finishing Fuel Tanks
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 29, 2006, at 6:00 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob send me the attendance list from last night and the tab. My
>>>> Paypal account is in good shape and I clearly missed the mark. With
>>>> the lowered expectations in quality builds this year, I am actually
>>>> glad not to have seen my 20 RV-10s. Would rather have the quality,
>>>> safer aircraft and smarter builders.
>>>>
>>>> Rushing to class.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Crossbow / Pinpoint News |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
OSH brought me a time to get more forward-looking news on the
AHRS problems of late 2005 and 2006, and I thought I'd pass on
a couple of quick things.
First, today I got some very disappointing news from a fellow
Chelton flyer. He left OSH and called me after his first leg.
He's flying a Crossbow 425EX that had previously been sent in
and "fixed" and returned to service. Previously I had heard that
there were 3 issues with the 425EX AHRS, two of which would
affect RV-10's and 1 of which would more affect composite planes.
They thought they had found the fixes and fixed those two issues,
but today's story indicates differently. The pilot reported
that the compass heading (at the top of the screen) rotated slowly
around 360 degrees every couple of minutes, even though the
plane was in straight and level flight. In talking with people
further, I learned that this is one of the known failure modes
of the instrument that would probably be noticed within about
a 45 minute leg. If that leg were continued for a longer
time, it would get worse, and eventually lead to a forward
rolling display, or possibly even flying backwards through the
HITS boxes. So, obviously it's not completely "fixed" and
owners are still encouraged not to fly IFR with the "fixed"
units.
News on the Pinpoint: My pinpoint testing has been going well.
I thought I hadn't noticed any issues at all, but on the
day I left for OSH I noticed a strange Airspeed readout
while at a standstill. I brought this up and found out the
good news that had already been caught, and taken care of for
the production units (I'm flying an engineering unit right now
as part of a test team) and that with the positive results of
the testing that the production units are now starting to come
out for distribution. I was going to jump on a production unit
but have decided to get my unit replaced with a unit that
not only has the production items in it, but some additional
enhancements as well that will need to now undergo some
additional testing. To date, in flight I have never noticed
any issues with the pinpoint, so other than some testing
when I get a new unit, I'm going to start flying in IMC as
required from here on out. Once everyone's back from OSH,
I should be receiving the new unit and I'll pass on info as
to how it works. I've heard that the first lot of production
units should help fill a lot of need by the flying and almost
flying builders.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Sky-Tec starter - latest update |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
No, the DAR didn't have a problem with it. He sat in the plane for
a WOT run-up and I just explained that the tach signal can only come
from one of the two sources due to the difference in pulse count.
He didn't have any issue with it, especially since I had the explanation
handy.
Hope the EIS info turns out helpful. If you need me to, I'll go back
and recheck all of the values to current. Those I think were done
after it was working well, but before I calibrated my fuel flow
transducer. I'm still confused though why you got a zero reading
from the lightspeed. Ultimately, I guess it doesn't matter which
source you use, but I kind of think of the lightspeed as more
"accurate" just because it's digital. Who knows....
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
> Did you inspector balk at your setup at all since you can't check the RPM on
> just the mag?
>
> The EIS programming info is awesome!
>
> Thanks again,
> Marcus
>
> Do not archive
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Garmin 430W/530W |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
With all the fuss recently at OSH about the G900, I didn't hear
anyone mention Garmin's new (in the future) 430W and 530W WAAS
capable GPS/Nav/Com's that will replace the regular 430/530.
I was surprised to hear that the 430W was $10750 and the 530W
was $16495. Doesn't this strike you as odd that it's way
higher in price than the original boxes? And to think that people
used to balk at the "high" price of the GNS480 that I paid
less than $9,000 for. If the pricing of the 480 is the same
right now, it may be time to grab one before they do something
stupid like phase it out. Wonder what street price will be...
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-10 Quality @ OSH -w/ appoligies to John Cox |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris" <toaster73@earthlink.net>
If you want some documented guidance on flush rivet requirements check this
link out.
http://home.flash.net/~gila/rivet_spec/rivet_a.htm#TABLE%20IV
Chris Lucas
#40072 (section 28-9)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:29 PM
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Deems says it well here. There is no ONE thing. There's such a
> variety. Most of the time, we're not talking cosmetics, although
> doing a really shoddy job cosmetically never wins you points.
> Most of the things that get pointed out negatively are things
> where someone obviously was in a hurry, or really showed a lack
> of care...not just the occasional newbie bucking bar ding. If a
> builder just builds to plans, and uses all the acceptable
> practices for things, they have nothing to fear. People like
> Ray Doerr show up without any paint at all, rivet lines scuffed
> and ready. Nobody criticizes him because his workmanship is
> good, and he took care on his project. The care thing really
> shows on fiberglass parts, when you obviously don't sand things
> well, or don't trim wingtips and make them match the trailing
> edge. On aluminum, it'll be things like not deburring things,
> consistently denting your skins along rivet lines, or not
> seating rivets by not dimpling skins enough...sometimes cosmetic,
> and sometimes structural issues. For electrical, at OSH 2005
> for example, I saw an entire bundle of wires snaked down through
> the forward slot in the tunnel cover, laying snugly against
> the sharp metal edge of the tunnel cover....which by other
> indications on the airframe was probably not deburred much
> or at all. It's a recipe for disaster, and doesn't follow
> any acceptable practice. As Deems says, it's stuff that any
> builder who thinks about, and puts care into building, would
> notice.
>
> It should also be noted that at this show, OSH 2006, I was
> able to see workmanship of such a level that I do not know
> if I could live up to it...even on my 2nd or 3rd build of
> an RV-10. Debbie Dewey's RV-10 is absolutely about as perfect
> as you can get. In almost every spot of her airframe, when
> you pay attention to the minute details, you see perfection in
> those details. Engine baffling quality, trailing edge smoothness
> where you can't even see that it's 2 skins, feathering fiberglass
> to aluminum transitions, fit and finish of fairings...things like
> that. Professional paint jobs, and professional interiors are
> just icing on the cake, not the things that are judged by builders...
> nor weighed heavily by contest judges. But in her case, the
> underlying airplane was built to very exceptionally high standards...
> standards to which most of us will dream, but not achieve. Not
> that this makes ours bad.
>
> I had the experience of having my airplane judged this year.
> It was very interesting. Lots of judges saw it, but I did
> not get any awards. Would have been cool, but there are reasons
> I did not get them. My airplane has been described as having
> great workmanship, being very pretty, having nice paint, and
> all sorts of things. But it truly isn't an award winning
> showplane...and if you remember my comments in past posts during
> the build, that's not what I built it for. To toot my own
> horn for a second, which I rarely like to do actually, I think
> of my airplane more as an example of good workmanship that is
> of a level that any builder should be able to accomplish without
> going above and beyond by too far. I would think that any of
> you could build one as nice, and many of you will build them
> nicer. I learned though, that to be a showplane, there is a
> level of detail that gets so precise that I think it would be a
> stretch for a first-time builder in most cases to win an
> award. One of the judges walked around with me and showed me
> the minor things that cause people to drop out. Very minor...
> things like a flap attach bolt put in from the wrong direction.
> But in the above discussion, we're not talking about the
> things that keep a person from winning an award....those things
> may not BE obvious to the average builder...they weren't to me,
> that's for sure. The things we're talking about are things
> that the average builder could see when they walk up to the
> plane. So take some comfort in the fact that if you're careful,
> you probably don't have much to worry about on the RV-10 to
> end up with a very airworthy plane. I am very happy with
> what I have, and how it flies, and it's built to a standard
> that I'm comfortable with. It seems to look nice, too. Hopefully
> you all can use what you learn on this forum to make yours
> come out even nicer.
>
> Example Tip: When you set flush rivets, drag a fingernail over
> them, and if you snag it on the edge of that rivet, it's probably
> not set deep enough. A few of these are fine, but don't
> let it be a habit....dimple better. If you can't dimple it
> any better, take that hole and very lightly run a countersink
> tool around a couple times to help the rivet lay flush...you
> want the whole rivet angle making good contact.
>
> Build on, and just work to high standards.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Deems Davis wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>> I know this was directed to John but let me take a crack at it. My son
>> and I just returned from OSH. BTW a MIGHTY THANKS to Bob Condrey, Gary
>> Spectater, and Tim Olsen for organizing RV10 HQ. The highlight of the
>> trip for me was being able to meet all of the RV-10 builders and to put
>> names with faces. 3-4 times each day, through the contact with you guys,
>> I learned something, valuable, that I wouldn't have learned if I hadn't
>> been there, THANKS again to all who so willingly shared their knowledge
>> and time.
>> Re. the quality issue, There is no one or two specific things, that you
>> can point to, but the quality of the workmanship is easily apparent to
>> any builder. Seams that don't match, wrinkled metal, pop rivets holding
>> windows to their frames, surfaces not prepared, sanded smooth/filled
>> before painting.finishing. Wings skins not 'scarfed' per the plans, these
>> are just a few that come to mind quickly. When looking at these planes,
>> they scream that they were put together with speed to completion as the
>> primary goal, pride of workmanship obviously took a holiday, and one
>> immediately begins to ask oneself, " If these readily visible shortcuts
>> were taken, what shortcuts that aren't so apparent were also taken?" Van
>> makes a GREAT kit, the RV-10 plans are the best and most complete in the
>> industry, 99.9% of the parts will almost 'put them selves together (NOT
>> applicable to the fiberglass pieces!!!!!). I'm confident that any
>> INDIVIDUAL OWNER/BUILDER who takes a modicum of pride in their work, and
>> who keeps safety in front of timelines can produce planes with the
>> quality that we saw in Tim's, Vic's and Debby's, and Mike's examples. All
>> of the foregoing examples showed wide differences in the individuals
>> preferences and choices, but NONE of them showed any signs of
>> carelessness. This list is an EXTREMELY valuable source of information
>> and knowledge regarding anything that you are not certain of. John Cox
>> has been an outspoken proponent on this site about NOT taking shortcuts,
>> and he is quick to call attention to anything that infringes on Safety.
>> Seeing these quality completions @ OSH inspired me to come back home
>> 'stay the course' and do the best job I'm capable of. THANKS again to
>> those of you who have led the way and established the standard!
>>
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> Fuse/Finishing/Panel
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>>
>> Simon Barber wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Simon Barber <simon@superduper.net>
>>>
>>> hi john,
>>>
>>> I too would like to know what to avoid ending up doing - since I am a
>>> first time builder. Would very much like to have a few pointers to "if
>>> it comes out like this you're doing it wrong".
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok John... without naming names... what specifically are you seeing
>>>> that constitutes a low "quality build"... as I certainly don't want to
>>>> wind up on that list when I take to the sky.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff Carpenter
>>>> 40304
>>>> Finishing Fuel Tanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 29, 2006, at 6:00 AM, John W. Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bob send me the attendance list from last night and the tab. My
>>>>> Paypal account is in good shape and I clearly missed the mark. With
>>>>> the lowered expectations in quality builds this year, I am actually
>>>>> glad not to have seen my 20 RV-10s. Would rather have the quality,
>>>>> safer aircraft and smarter builders.
>>>>> Rushing to class.
>>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | My Oshkosh Report |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
Guys,
I just got back from OSH 2006. I'm sorry I missed the Rv10 get-togethers. It
would have been neat to put the faces with the names.
I did however, get to meet a very tall yet unassuming man alongside of his RV10.
Tim Olson. Conversing with Tim put me over the edge and I went with the
3 screen Chelton. Thanks Tim! Direct-To thanks you too!
I wandered around all of the RV10's I could find on Thursday and Friday and took
some pics. They are posted below.
Very interesting on the wide range of quality of work. It is very plain to see
the 10's that stood out.
Hope all you ten builders out there appreciate the guys like Tim and the others
(too many to name) that help us RV10 builders out with their websites and
advice.
Now, let's put our collective wits together and come up with a solution to the
HTS (Hot Tunnel Syndrome), not just a band-aid.
The highlight of Oshkosh 2006 for me was the F-22 Raptor demonstration. Hope you
guys who went to OSH got to see it.
Joe "Zack" Czachorowski
(tail, wings done, working on the fuselage)
--------
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=50659#50659
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Message 39
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| Subject: | Life after Oshkosh |
Wow....what a pleasure to meet so many RV 10 builders and see some great
craftmanship. Just got home and unpacked ........read my 142 emails an
d cant wait to get started sanding more fiberglass wheel pants. I want
to say what a great time it was drinking beer at the Vans picnics and he
aring John Cox's RV 10 tweak list........great ideas. I now need to org
anize all the builder cards i was given so when those questions arise I
can CALL and get an 2nd opinion from one of the many talented builders o
n this list.
John C. Only 358 days left till Oshkosh 2007............I am betting 10
0 RV 10 planes at Airventure 2007! Hopefully I am in that 100 list!
Keep building (your best quality work),
Dean
40449
________________________________________________________________________
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!
<html><P>Wow....what a pleasure to meet so many RV 10 builders and see s
ome great craftmanship. Just got home and unpacked ........read my
142 emails and cant wait to get started sanding more fiberglass wheel p
ants. I want to say what a great time it was drinking beer at the
Vans picnics and hearing John Cox's RV 10 tweak list........great ideas.
I now need to organize all the builder cards i was given so when
those questions arise I can CALL and get an 2nd opinion from one of the
many talented builders on this list. </P>
<P>John C. Only 358 days left till Oshkosh 2007............I am be
tting 100 RV 10 planes at Airventure 2007! Hopefully I am in that 100 li
st! </P>
<P>Keep building (your best quality work),</P>
<P>Dean</P>
<P>40449</P></html>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month!<br>
Visit <a href="http://www.juno.com/value">http://www.juno.com/value</a
> to sign up today!<br></font>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Tunnel Temps |
Russ,
What kind of foil faced insulation did you use? What was the actual
insulating material? Where did you buy it?
Thanks,
Kevin
40494
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell Daves
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Tunnel Temps
Second flight today in N710RV. Checked the forward tunnel area for
high temps. Used the bare leg method. Stuck my bare left leg up
against the tunnel wall and held it there for at least five minutes. No
problem, even confirmed after landing that I still had hair on my leg
(just in case my 33 month build had killed the nerves in the leg and I
didn't feel the heat).
After hearing all the tunnel heat issues raised in the posts I did the
following:
1. Bought a roll of engine gasket material at NAPA and cut out
gaskets to install between the firewall and the heat vent boxes. (Don't
remember for sure but I think this tip came from Tim Olson as 90% of the
my help tips have - Thanks Tim).
2. Installed an RTV gasket around the inside of the heat vent doors
after install by beading the RVT around the opening, placing a piece of
wax paper over the RTV and closing the door with the cable. After setup
of the RTV I removed the wax paper and re-closed the door. (Install tip
from Jesse Saint - Thanks Jesse).
3. RTV'ed around the outside of each heat vent box.
4. Installed foil faced insulation on the bottom of the tunnel
floor and over the inside of the firewall (used this method on my RV-6A
firewall after it was built and it made a huge difference). I did not
build a false floor in the tunnel, only put the insulation up to the
edge of the fuel flow transducer and fuel pump.
5. Installed sound proofing foam insulation under the floor and on
the sidewalls.
Hope these tips help.
By the way N710RV flies like a dream. Working on wheel pants and gear
leg fairings between flights.
Russ Daves
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