Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:49 AM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (Marc Cook)
2. 10:00 AM - Re: Overhead Console (John W. Cox)
3. 10:14 AM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (John W. Cox)
4. 10:16 AM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 11:26 AM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (Marc Cook)
6. 12:27 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (John W. Cox)
7. 01:26 PM - F-1070 side fuse skin bending from factory? (Chris Johnston)
8. 04:15 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (DAVE LEIKAM)
9. 04:28 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (linn Walters)
10. 04:43 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (John Jessen)
11. 04:49 PM - New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... (Matt Dralle)
12. 06:23 PM - RPM indications with Lightspeed (Marcus Cooper)
13. 07:31 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (Robert G. Wright)
14. 07:47 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (John W. Cox)
15. 07:59 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (Jesse Saint)
16. 08:28 PM - Re: LOP?ROP (Kelly McMullen)
17. 08:33 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
18. 08:49 PM - Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE (linn Walters)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
Bart does great work.
What do you mean by "kick backs"?
On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:
> DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport. Great reputation and good folks to
> do business with. No kick backs either.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Overhead Console |
John, if I understand the problem which is left undeclared. It is the
volume of air and the flow rate capable under the stock GMC component as
mounted to a VANS canopy. Tony's allows more volume and flow rate with
better static pressure results. Given the poor finish work of the M & T
composite cowl, this dilemma can be effected by a primary adapter
(builder created) between the VANS composite and the GMC quality looking
finish piece. Now for those who chose not to go with conditioned air,
they may already be home free without the intermediary adapter. Did I
miss why people should through their money at Tony.
Just posting what might be a cost effective solution for the budget
minded.
John C
________________________________
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John N.
Strain II
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 5:16 PM
Not to through a wrench in the hype, but if you are wanting air
conditioning or even ventilation that far forward in the cabin, the
chevy's overhead doesn't lend itself very well to adaptation. No
automotive does however, so its back to custom laid fiberglass and
although Tony's price maybe high, it does allow for excellent
ventilation in the cabin space and looks very prestigious as it does it.
Other alternatives are in development also and will be out by mid to
late Sept.
"John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com> wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox"
Hopefully, Tony is monitoring this, cause there are sure a lot available
overhead consoles at a reasonable price. Debbie, your quality was
beyond comment. Beautiful aircraft and I was hurt not to see you taking
home an award. It's a winner in my book.
Watch S-10 Blazers jump on the stolen auto list as the 10 builders
follow Deems purchase and bypass Ebay.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2006 7:11 AM
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
DON'T ANYBODY BID ON THIS (I already did, ;-) )
THANKS BILL!
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Finishing/Panel
http://deemsrv10.com/
W. Curtis wrote:
> When I spoke to Debbie Dewey at OSH regarding her spectacular RV-10, I
> asked her about the overhead console. She mentioned she purchased it
> from eBay for about $50 and it was the overhead console for the Chevy
> S-10 Blazer. A search of eBay motors for "overhead console blazer"
> will show many for sale averaging $50. This adds such a finished look
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all
seconded the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP
operations, you will find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a great
article in Kitplanes.
John Cox
________________________________
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I
think they do great work but there is an article in this months
Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why they would
make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.
I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks
(other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any
breaks for having my engine on display at OSH. I am simply very
impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight
shooters when it comes to questions on their engines. Ask Allen what he
thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime. :-)
If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll
shoot you a copy.
Michael Sausen
Message 4
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| Subject: | Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
Good point! I meant as in no under the table transfer of funds for my
endorsement. :)
Michael
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:49 AM
Bart does great work.
What do you mean by "kick backs"?
On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:
DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport. Great reputation and good folks to do
business with. No kick backs either.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
Got it. The crew at Barrett was great to work with, and fed me as
much thick, black coffee as I could stand. That's the extent of my
kickback!
On Aug 6, 2006, at 10:15 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
> Good point! I meant as in no under the table transfer of funds for
> my endorsement. :)
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:49 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
>
> Bart does great work.
>
>
> What do you mean by "kick backs"?
>
>
> On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:
>
>
> DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport. Great reputation and good folks to
> do business with. No kick backs either.
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
One of the point (or points) that may be of value considering is the
tolerance in Gram/Inches of each component and an actual hard copy Dyno
run upon complete assembly. The playing field can get pretty level when
you add roller tappets, hybrid electronic ignition, an improved fuel
servo, light weight starter/alternator, tuned custom welded exhaust
headers, choice of epoxy enamel color, 1 gram/inch balance and a true
Dyno Printout of your "pride and joy" once the dollars begin to flow.
Track record helps too.
John Cox
________________________________
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:26 AM
Got it. The crew at Barrett was great to work with, and fed me as much
thick, black coffee as I could stand. That's the extent of my kickback!
On Aug 6, 2006, at 10:15 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:49 AM
Bart does great work.
What do you mean by "kick backs"?
On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:
DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport. Great reputation and good folks to do
business with. No kick backs either.
Message 7
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| Subject: | F-1070 side fuse skin bending from factory? |
hey all -
after my super awesome fuse skin bending session, i'm ready to order a
new skin. i followed all the instructions, had a woodworking buddy
create perfect blocks per the plans out of nice hardwood, and after
getting a nice looking bend, i noticed that the skin was cracked by the
sharp bend. after searching the archives, i saw that vans was talking
about creating those bends at the factory. anyone know if that is
happening? if it is, is it also happening for the forward fuse skins
F-1069? i'm just wondering if i should keep at my bending efforts, or
move on and order (hopefully) pre-bent skins. someone give me good
news...
cj
#40410
fuse
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
I've seen the term "LOP" operation used. Can you explain?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 N89DA
#40496 - elevators
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all
seconded the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP
operations, you will find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a great
article in Kitplanes.
John Cox
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and
I think they do great work but there is an article in this months
Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why they would
make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.
I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks
(other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any
breaks for having my engine on display at OSH. I am simply very
impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight
shooters when it comes to questions on their engines. Ask Allen what he
thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime. :-)
If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and
I'll shoot you a copy.
Michael Sausen
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
I'll give it a shot!
Two terms LOP and ROP refer to ability to lean below and above peak EGT.
Most of us are familiar with 'lean till it stumbles and enrichen till
it smoothes out again" ..... which is ROP ..... Rich Of Peak.
LOP or Lean Of Peak is operating above the peak ..... continuing leaning
until EGT drops off.
LOP operation is near impossible with a carbureted fuel system because
distance to the cylinder, varying flow rates and venturi atomization
..... all conspire to make some cylinders run leaner than others. The
cylinders will not all peak at the same time.
LOP almost requires an injected fuel system, and GAMI (there's also an
experimental injector whose name escapes me right now) makes a big
business out of controlling the flow in individual injectors to even out
the flow to all cylinders ...... allowing LOP operation.
That's the thumbnail explanation!
Linn
do not archive
DAVE LEIKAM wrote:
> I've seen the term "LOP" operation used. Can you explain?
>
> Dave Leikam
> RV-10 N89DA
> #40496 - elevators
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
> I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all
> seconded the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP
> operations, you will find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a
> great article in Kitplanes.
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV
> Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
>
>
> Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines
> and I think they do great work but there is an article in this
> months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why
> they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an
> engine.
>
>
>
> I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no
> kickbacks (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor
> did I receive any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH.
> I am simply very impressed with their customer service and ability
> to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their
> engines. Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III
> ignitions on sometime. :-)
>
>
>
> If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline
> and I'll shoot you a copy.
>
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
LOP = Lean of Peak. Normally we are taught to set the mixture a certain
amount rich of peak temperature (say 50 degrees). Thus, you run rich, more
gas is used to cool the engine cylinders some. Too rich and you begin
fouling the plugs. So it was nice when you had a CHT in the plan to help
with setting rich of peak rather than just dialing it back after hitting the
spot when the engine began to run rough.
With fuel injectors, especially the GAMI type, ones that are balanced, it is
possible to set the mixture LEAN of peak. This was a no-no until you had
more accurate fuel control and measurement per cylinder. It gives better
performance and lowers fuel consumption, but it can also damage an engine
and is not recommended if you use a carburetor.
There is still debate about this technique, but you can find out more about
it if you Google GAMI injectors and go from there.
John J
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVE LEIKAM
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
I've seen the term "LOP" operation used. Can you explain?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 N89DA
#40496 - elevators
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com> Cox
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all seconded
the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP operations, you will
find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a great article in Kitplanes.
John Cox
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I
think they do great work but there is an article in this months Kitplanes
that gives some good information on BPE and why they would make a good
choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.
I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks (other
than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any breaks for
having my engine on display at OSH. I am simply very impressed with their
customer service and ability to be straight shooters when it comes to
questions on their engines. Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual
LSE III ignitions on sometime. :-)
If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll
shoot you a copy.
Michael Sausen
Message 11
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| Subject: | New Incoming Message Size Limit Implemented... |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Due to a number of requests to limit the size of incoming posts to the Lists because
of the recently added enclosure feature, I have add a new filter that will
limit the total size of any given message posted to the List. I have initially
set the limit to 2MB
and we'll see how everyone likes that.
If a member attempts to post a message that is greater than the set limit, they
will receive an email back indicating that their message wasn't posted to the
List and why. Also included in the message will be the current size limit and
how large their message
was.
Some might say that 2MB is still too large, but its a place to start...
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | 10-List:RPM indications with Lightspeed |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
I am still having trouble getting my Lightspeed RPM indication to work on my
Grand Rapids DIS and have a question. On the output line, there are 3
options to choose from for RPM indications, analog, digital and one other (I
think, don't have the instruction handy unfortunately). I opted for the
digital pin but am still getting 0 RPM (and I have accomplished the
resistor/capacitor removal as required). Anyone have any other recommended
pins to use? There may be other issues (undetected bad joint?) but I
thought I'd start here.
Thanks,
Marcus
Pseudo high-speed taxi today, it felt great!
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
Marc,
Nice to see such a high-level interest in our forum. How's the Sportsman
running?
Rob Wright
#392
QB Wings
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
Got it. The crew at Barrett was great to work with, and fed me as much
thick, black coffee as I could stand. That's the extent of my kickback!
On Aug 6, 2006, at 10:15 AM, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc Cook
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
Bart does great work.
What do you mean by "kick backs"?
On Aug 5, 2006, at 2:43 PM, Mark Ritter wrote:
DITTO for Bart at Aero Sport. Great reputation and good folks to do business
with. No kick backs either.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
As you increase the mixture control from Idle Cutoff off to greater
richness, the EGT indicates the increase in exhaust gas temperature as
the ratio of fuel to air increase. Hence, ROP is on the rich of Peak
side once the temperature MAXs and you continue the control of fuel to
air, you go over to LEAN of PEAK, hence LOP. The danger zone for
detonation and internal damage is within 50 degrees ROP to 50 degrees
LOP where cylinder pressures are their greatest. At 75% Lean of Peak
the CHT and EGT comes down and you fly a more frugal fuel:air mixture.
It is not for the faint of heart, it is not for climb configuration
(need for maximum power) it is not for aircraft without EGT probes on
each of your cylinders.
With the reduction in EGT usually comes reduction in CHT and extended
component life for pistons, cam lobes, exhaust valves and seats and
other oil cooled components which begin to COKE up with higher
temperatures. The Lycoming features sodium filled valves which do a
better job of heat transfer to the valve seat than a Continental.
Control of spark intensity and timing event all come together to
increase temperature of the fuel:air mixture which can lead to
Detonation. We each have individual opinions on LOP/ROP and timing
devices. Detonation always wins the discussion. Aluminum does not do
well in the 400 degree range so LOP fans are growing in popularity.
GAMI gives classes to ole mechanics and FAA types who misunderstand the
black magic.
FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) takes all of this away and
hides that and the mixture lever beyond the reach of pilots. Or KISS -
Keep it Simple Stupid pilot control.
John Cox
N49CX - 40600
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVE LEIKAM
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
I've seen the term "LOP" operation used. Can you explain?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 N89DA
#40496 - elevators
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and
BPE
I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have
all seconded the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP
operations, you will find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a great
article in Kitplanes.
John Cox
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision
Engines and I think they do great work but there is an article in this
months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why they
would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.
I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no
kickbacks (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I
receive any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH. I am simply
very impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight
shooters when it comes to questions on their engines. Ask Allen what he
thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime. :-)
If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline
and I'll shoot you a copy.
Michael Sausen
Message 15
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| Subject: | Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
The other two posts cover most of the question, but I will share what I
have
learned as well, a little. It is becoming quite widely agreed-upon that
LOP
is acceptable. I won=92t speak to Carbureted engines, since I have no
experience there. Of course, leaning can be more evenly controlled if
the
injectors are matched in a way that each cylinder is getting fuel
delivered
to it in a way that EGT=92s peak at the same time. GAMI=92s do this,
but it can
be done with just about any system where you can get different sized
injectors to allow more or less fuel into the cylinders.
There seem to be two ways to run lean of peak safely (there may be
others,
but this should cover most situations). First is flow-matched injectors
and
second is low power settings. With flow-matched injectors, as
mentioned,
you have much less variation in EGT=92s between cylinders so you can get
an
accurate, say 50 degrees LOP without going too lean on some cylinders
and
causing problems. This is very nicely monitored with an engine monitor
that
gives you CHT and EGT on all cylinders. The other way (these two can be
combined, of course) is to run at lower power settings. At high power
settings, say 65% and higher, you can damage your cylinders if you run
too
lean. At lower power settings, though, it is becoming more widely
agreed
that you can run quite lean without damage. You do lose some power as
you
go lean of peak, but your fuel flows go down substantially (you also
lose
power as you go too rich of peak, where you fuel flows go up
substantially).
In fact, it shouldn=92t cause any damage to your engine at low power
settings
to lean almost to the point of the engine running rough. This makes for
relatively economical flying when absolute speed can be traded for
economy
(which is a huge issue these days with fuel prices where they are).
Also, a
great way to get power settings down without sacrificing too much in
cruise
performance is to fly high. For example, in an normally aspirated
IO-540,
at 12,000 feet or so, you will not be able to get much over 50% power if
that, so you can lean aggressively and achieve great economy.
Again, the thing that is making this type of flying much more prevalent
now
is the use of more Injected engines and the availability of engine
monitoring systems that give accurate CHT, EGT and Fuel Flow
information.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVE LEIKAM
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 7:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
I've seen the term "LOP" operation used. Can you explain?
Dave Leikam
RV-10 N89DA
#40496 - elevators
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com"John W. Cox
Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all
seconded
the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP operations, you
will
find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a great article in Kitplanes.
John Cox
_____
From: HYPERLINK
"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com"owner-rv10-list-server@matro
nic
s.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV
Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines and I
think they do great work but there is an article in this months
Kitplanes
that gives some good information on BPE and why they would make a good
choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.
I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks
(other
than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive any breaks
for
having my engine on display at OSH. I am simply very impressed with
their
customer service and ability to be straight shooters when it comes to
questions on their engines. Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting
dual
LSE III ignitions on sometime. :-)
If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and I'll
shoot you a copy.
Michael Sausen
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
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Message 16
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Close, but a few incorrect items. Sodium filled valve stems transfer
heat to the valve guides, not the valve seat. That is why Lycomings tend
to have more valve guide problems. Lycoming's stated red lines are 425
for cruise and 475 absolute, while recommending 400 or less for
longevity. LOP is actually easier to fly than ROP, because you don't
have to worry about adjusting mixture in the descent. Danger zone is
really dependent on power setting. At 75% it really is about 25 LOP to
80 ROP, with max CHT at 40-50 ROP. You really want to either be LOP or
100 ROP in cruise, and about 200 ROP in climb.
For more detail and demonstration of actual values, the Advanced Pilots
Seminar in Ada or on-line is highly recommended, open to all, and only
loosely affiliated with GAMI.
John W. Cox wrote:
> As you increase the mixture control from Idle Cutoff off to greater
> richness, the EGT indicates the increase in exhaust gas temperature as
> the ratio of fuel to air increase. Hence, ROP is on the rich of Peak
> side once the temperature MAXs and you continue the control of fuel to
> air, you go over to LEAN of PEAK, hence LOP. The danger zone for
> detonation and internal damage is within 50 degrees ROP to 50 degrees
> LOP where cylinder pressures are their greatest. At 75% Lean of Peak
> the CHT and EGT comes down and you fly a more frugal fuel:air mixture.
> It is not for the faint of heart, it is not for climb configuration
> (need for maximum power) it is not for aircraft without EGT probes on
> each of your cylinders.
>
>
>
> With the reduction in EGT usually comes reduction in CHT and extended
> component life for pistons, cam lobes, exhaust valves and seats and
> other oil cooled components which begin to COKE up with higher
> temperatures. The Lycoming features sodium filled valves which do a
> better job of heat transfer to the valve seat than a Continental.
> Control of spark intensity and timing event all come together to
> increase temperature of the fuel:air mixture which can lead to
> Detonation. We each have individual opinions on LOP/ROP and timing
> devices. Detonation always wins the discussion. Aluminum does not do
> well in the 400 degree range so LOP fans are growing in popularity.
> GAMI gives classes to ole mechanics and FAA types who misunderstand the
> black magic.
>
>
>
> FADEC (Full Authority Digital Engine Control) takes all of this away and
> hides that and the mixture lever beyond the reach of pilots. Or KISS
> Keep it Simple Stupid pilot control.
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
> N49CX 40600
>
> Do not Archive
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *DAVE LEIKAM
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:15 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
>
>
> I've seen the term "LOP" operation used. Can you explain?
>
>
>
> Dave Leikam
>
> RV-10 N89DA
>
> #40496 - elevators
>
>
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:* John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13 PM
>
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
>
>
> I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all
> seconded the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP
> operations, you will find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a
> great article in Kitplanes.
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *RV
> Builder (Michael Sausen)
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
>
>
> Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines
> and I think they do great work but there is an article in this
> months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why
> they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an engine.
>
>
>
> I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no kickbacks
> (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor did I receive
> any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH. I am simply very
> impressed with their customer service and ability to be straight
> shooters when it comes to questions on their engines. Ask Allen
> what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III ignitions on sometime. :-)
>
>
>
> If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline and
> I'll shoot you a copy.
>
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
Linn:
Not to be picky, but "Lean Of Peak is operating above the peak" is a
little miscontrued. (How does one get above a peak?)
Best way to word it is probably Lean of Peak is fuel/air mixtures leaner
than that at the peak EGT, while Rich of Peak is fuel/air mixtures
richer than that at the peak EGT. Since usually the only way to tell
fuel/air mixture in the cockpit is by fuel flow, you could also say Lean
of Peak is fuel flow less than that at the peak EGT, while Rich of Peak
is fuel flow higher than that at the peak EGT. All of the Lycoming
engine operating manuals have a generic graph that shows the drop off of
EGT by fuel flow on each side of the peak.
Just remember, pretty much all engine manufacturers recommend that
leaning only be conducted below 75% power. Below that level, you're
pretty safe from doing any damage to the engine.
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of linn Walters
Sent: Sun 8/6/2006 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
I'll give it a shot!
Two terms LOP and ROP refer to ability to lean below and above peak EGT.
Most of us are familiar with 'lean till it stumbles and enrichen till
it smoothes out again" ..... which is ROP ..... Rich Of Peak.
LOP or Lean Of Peak is operating above the peak ..... continuing leaning
until EGT drops off.
LOP operation is near impossible with a carbureted fuel system because
distance to the cylinder, varying flow rates and venturi atomization
..... all conspire to make some cylinders run leaner than others. The
cylinders will not all peak at the same time.
LOP almost requires an injected fuel system, and GAMI (there's also an
experimental injector whose name escapes me right now) makes a big
business out of controlling the flow in individual injectors to even out
the flow to all cylinders ...... allowing LOP operation.
That's the thumbnail explanation!
Linn
do not archive
DAVE LEIKAM wrote:
> I've seen the term "LOP" operation used. Can you explain?
>
> Dave Leikam
> RV-10 N89DA
> #40496 - elevators
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
> I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all
> seconded the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP
> operations, you will find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a
> great article in Kitplanes.
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV
> Builder (Michael Sausen)
> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
>
>
> Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines
> and I think they do great work but there is an article in this
> months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why
> they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an
> engine.
>
>
>
> I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no
> kickbacks (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor
> did I receive any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH.
> I am simply very impressed with their customer service and ability
> to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their
> engines. Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III
> ignitions on sometime. :-)
>
>
>
> If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline
> and I'll shoot you a copy.
>
>
>
> Michael Sausen
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE |
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>Linn:
>
>Not to be picky, but "Lean Of Peak is operating above the peak" is a little miscontrued.
(How does one get above a peak?)
>
Aw, picky, picky anyway! :-)
You're right though, it could have been worded better ..... which is why
I added "continuing leaning until EGT drops off"
>Best way to word it is probably Lean of Peak is fuel/air mixtures leaner than
that at the peak EGT, while Rich of Peak is fuel/air mixtures richer than that
at the peak EGT. Since usually the only way to tell fuel/air mixture in the
cockpit is by fuel flow, you could also say Lean of Peak is fuel flow less than
that at the peak EGT, while Rich of Peak is fuel flow higher than that at the
peak EGT. All of the Lycoming engine operating manuals have a generic graph
that shows the drop off of EGT by fuel flow on each side of the peak.
>
>Just remember, pretty much all engine manufacturers recommend that leaning only
be conducted below 75% power. Below that level, you're pretty safe from doing
any damage to the engine.
>
I'm an advocate of leaning ALL THE TIME. You have to remember that
almost all the operating conditions the engine manufacturers make are
based on their certification. There is a lot of CYA there. Our engines
aren't anything to crow about technically. I run the dog crap out of my
engine (wonder how THAT got in there??? :-D ) in the Pitts ....... on
mogas ..... but that's another food fight ...... without any noticeable
ill effects. I think that after 25 years SOMETHING would have shown
up!!! Now, don't get me wrong ..... I'm not saying either aggressive
leaning or mogas is for everyone ...... it just works for me.
Linn
do not archive
>
>TDT
>40025
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of linn Walters
>Sent: Sun 8/6/2006 7:31 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>
>I'll give it a shot!
>Two terms LOP and ROP refer to ability to lean below and above peak EGT.
> Most of us are familiar with 'lean till it stumbles and enrichen till
>it smoothes out again" ..... which is ROP ..... Rich Of Peak.
>
>LOP or Lean Of Peak is operating above the peak ..... continuing leaning
>until EGT drops off.
>
>LOP operation is near impossible with a carbureted fuel system because
>distance to the cylinder, varying flow rates and venturi atomization
>..... all conspire to make some cylinders run leaner than others. The
>cylinders will not all peak at the same time.
>
>LOP almost requires an injected fuel system, and GAMI (there's also an
>experimental injector whose name escapes me right now) makes a big
>business out of controlling the flow in individual injectors to even out
>the flow to all cylinders ...... allowing LOP operation.
>
>That's the thumbnail explanation!
>Linn
>
>do not archive
>DAVE LEIKAM wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've seen the term "LOP" operation used. Can you explain?
>>
>>Dave Leikam
>>RV-10 N89DA
>>#40496 - elevators
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 12:13 PM
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>>
>> I have no horse in this race either but friends I respect have all
>> seconded the choice of Barrett. For those inclined towards LOP
>> operations, you will find GAMI is supportive as well. That was a
>> great article in Kitplanes.
>>
>>
>>
>> John Cox
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com>
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV
>> Builder (Michael Sausen)
>> Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 8:03 AM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Kitplanes article on the Lyc 390X and BPE
>>
>>
>>
>> Everyone knows that I'm a proponent of Barrett Precision Engines
>> and I think they do great work but there is an article in this
>> months Kitplanes that gives some good information on BPE and why
>> they would make a good choice for anyone that is looking for an
>> engine.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am in no way affiliated with them and have received no
>> kickbacks (other than a beer Allen bought me at Airventure) nor
>> did I receive any breaks for having my engine on display at OSH.
>> I am simply very impressed with their customer service and ability
>> to be straight shooters when it comes to questions on their
>> engines. Ask Allen what he thinks about me putting dual LSE III
>> ignitions on sometime. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> If someone would like a copy of the article, email me offline
>> and I'll shoot you a copy.
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Sausen
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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