Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:52 AM - Re: has anyone had this problem? (Rob Kermanj)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Re: RV-10 gathering (Mark Ritter)
3. 04:03 AM - Re: has anyone had this problem? (Rob Kermanj)
4. 04:38 AM - Re: has anyone had this problem? (Tim Olson)
5. 04:40 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Tim Olson)
6. 05:02 AM - Re: has anyone had this problem? (Rob Kermanj)
7. 07:14 AM - Re: has anyone had this problem? (John W. Cox)
8. 07:19 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
9. 08:04 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Vern W. Smith)
10. 08:27 AM - Re: Arc protection diodes (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
11. 08:28 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
12. 08:43 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Tim Olson)
13. 08:54 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Lockamy, Jack L)
14. 09:03 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Mike Lauritsen - Work)
15. 09:12 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Tim Olson)
16. 09:19 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Tim Olson)
17. 09:54 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Bobby J. Hughes)
18. 10:34 AM - Re: Skins (John Hasbrouck)
19. 11:46 AM - Re: Skins ()
20. 12:16 PM - Re: Skins (Tim Olson)
21. 01:57 PM - Re: lighting (Robert G. Wright)
22. 02:25 PM - Re: lighting (Michael Schipper)
23. 02:27 PM - Tru-Trak roll servo neutral position answer (Robert G. Wright)
24. 02:33 PM - Re: Skins (John Hasbrouck)
25. 03:28 PM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (John Dunne)
26. 05:37 PM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Wayne Edgerton)
27. 05:40 PM - IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy (W. Curtis)
28. 06:39 PM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
29. 07:22 PM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Chris)
30. 07:23 PM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Chris)
31. 08:36 PM - Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy (Kelly McMullen)
32. 09:36 PM - Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy (Deems Davis)
33. 09:41 PM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (Tim Olson)
34. 11:03 PM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (ddddsp1@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone had this problem? |
Thanks for the replay. Mine actually scrapes the tunnel right at the
passenger's left foot cable to pedal connector. It is the connection
bolt scraping the wall.
Rob Kermanj
On Aug 9, 2006, at 8:59 PM, Russell Daves wrote:
> Try the West Marine Cable Guides. The model number is 107656 and
> are 5/16th size. I ordered three of them and cut the third one in
> half and ran the extra halves back past the baggage compartment
> bulkhead past the battery as well. It was a little extra work and I
> used Plastic clamps in the back obtained from the local Lowes store
> and pop riveted them to the side of the tunnel.
>
> <009601c6bc18$441631a0$b0436a44>
>
> <009701c6bc18$441fce90$b0436a44>
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Russ Daves
> N710RV Flying
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rob Kermanj
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:58 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: has anyone had this problem?
>
> My left rudder pedal rubs against the tunnel skin and is starting
> to split the aluminum. The attachment bolt that connects the
> rudder cable on the passenger side is tight against the tunnel skin.
>
> I would appreciate you email if you have the same problem and any
> solution that you have come up with. I am at the head scratching
> stage right now.
>
> Rob Kermanj
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | RE: RV-10 gathering |
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone had this problem? |
My bolts are flipped and it still digs, especially when the left
pedal is pressed considering that the tunnel tapers out. I have
tried moving the left rudder assembly to the right but there is not
slack in the bearing blocks. I think my only solution at this point
is to cut the supporting tube's right end about a 1/4', insert it
into the right bearing block and shim the left end. What do you think?
I will post a photo today, perhaps others will run into the same
problem.
Rob Kermanj
On Aug 10, 2006, at 12:44 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> When Randy had his inspection, one of the "Dings" I heard was the
> bolts
> needed to have the nut on the outside of the pedals so the cotter
> pins didn't snag your shoes. This puts the nut right next to the
> tunnel, of
> course.
>
> So, I tried to prepare by mounting the bolt that way. I found that
> mine
> rubbed the tunnel. So, I prayed that nobody would say anything and
> mounted my bolts with the rounded head towards the tunnel. After
> that,
> I haven't had any rubbing.
>
> If you get rubbing, even with that bolt flipped, then I'm wondering if
> there isn't anything you can do with those nylon blocks on the
> longerons
> up on top to shift the pedals slightly so that they are further
> from the
> tunnel. I know what you mean, the pedals are close, but on mine they
> don't touch anymore. I was unable to allow myself to keep the
> carpeting on the tunnel in that area though....the gap wasn't big
> enough
> and I didn't want the cable links hanging up on the carpet some day.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
>
> Rob Kermanj wrote:
>> My left rudder pedal rubs against the tunnel skin and is starting
>> to split the aluminum. The attachment bolt that connects the
>> rudder cable on the passenger side is tight against the tunnel skin.
>> I would appreciate you email if you have the same problem and any
>> solution that you have come up with. I am at the head scratching
>> stage right now.
>> Rob Kermanj
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone had this problem? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I can't remember exactly how deep those plastic/UHMW endcaps are
on the pedal mounts, but that might be just what you need. But
you'd have to make sure the pedals are still oriented with enough
gap so they don't rub as the pass eachother. From the sounds of it,
you've also thought of bending the attach tab already, as that would
be too simple.
How may hours are you up to now?
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rob Kermanj wrote:
> My bolts are flipped and it still digs, especially when the left pedal
> is pressed considering that the tunnel tapers out. I have tried moving
> the left rudder assembly to the right but there is not slack in the
> bearing blocks. I think my only solution at this point is to cut the
> supporting tube's right end about a 1/4', insert it into the right
> bearing block and shim the left end. What do you think?
>
> I will post a photo today, perhaps others will run into the same problem.
>
> Rob Kermanj
>
>
>
> On Aug 10, 2006, at 12:44 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com
>> <mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com>>
>>
>> When Randy had his inspection, one of the "Dings" I heard was the bolts
>> needed to have the nut on the outside of the pedals so the cotter pins
>> didn't snag your shoes. This puts the nut right next to the tunnel, of
>> course.
>>
>> So, I tried to prepare by mounting the bolt that way. I found that mine
>> rubbed the tunnel. So, I prayed that nobody would say anything and
>> mounted my bolts with the rounded head towards the tunnel. After that,
>> I haven't had any rubbing.
>>
>> If you get rubbing, even with that bolt flipped, then I'm wondering if
>> there isn't anything you can do with those nylon blocks on the longerons
>> up on top to shift the pedals slightly so that they are further from the
>> tunnel. I know what you mean, the pedals are close, but on mine they
>> don't touch anymore. I was unable to allow myself to keep the
>> carpeting on the tunnel in that area though....the gap wasn't big enough
>> and I didn't want the cable links hanging up on the carpet some day.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>> My left rudder pedal rubs against the tunnel skin and is starting to
>>> split the aluminum. The attachment bolt that connects the rudder
>>> cable on the passenger side is tight against the tunnel skin.
>>> I would appreciate you email if you have the same problem and any
>>> solution that you have come up with. I am at the head scratching
>>> stage right now.
>>> Rob Kermanj
>>
>>
>>
>> - The RV10-List Email Forum -
>> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> NOTE: Msg Size Limit Now At: 1MB - 08/08/06 (was 2MB)
>> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>> --> http://wiki.matronics.com
>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>> Thank you for your generous support!
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Thanks Henkjan, I only wish I had a mill handy again, but my friend
who's I used moved away. It sounds like you did exactly what needs
to be done, but it's a 1-off solution. I'd love to see photos
of yours or anyone's assemblies that they've fixed, but I don't
want to see you disassemble just for photos. Thanks for the
description of the fix though. External photos would be nice.
I'd love to see how big that piece is that fits next to the bearings.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Henkjan van der Zouw wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Henkjan van der Zouw" <henkjan@zme.nl>
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> I did not like the construction of the front wheel bearing and made a
> change even before putting my 10 on it's wheels because I had fear about
> exactly what happened to your front wheel.
> Van's provides two bushing made from thin wall stainless steel tubing
> for mounting at the outside of the bearings only, this will not prevent
> the bearing inner rings from rotating at the shaft, due to the heavy
> seals my inner rings were rotating at the shaft, I didn't like that,
> feared that the bushings would damage the fork, your experience proves
> that.
>
> Here's what I did, first I determined the distance between the bearing
> inner rings, then I made an aliminium bushing on the lathe just a little
> wider than the measured distance ( 0.1 to 0.2 mm) to give the bearings
> just that little play that they need.
> Then I made two aluminium bushings for the outside, dimensions just so
> that the total of the two outside bushings, the two bearing inner rings
> and the inside bushing are a little bit longer then the shaft, it all
> clamps together during assembly.
> I did not use the bushings supplied by Van's.
> Now it's assembled it's a very rigid construction that allows the
> bearings just to rotate at the point that they should as well as both
> seals.
> Need to say that the length of the bushing between the inner rings needs
> to be measured for every wheel separately due to tolerances of the
> wheels.
>
> I can disassemble it again and post pictures if you want.
>
>
> Henkjan van der Zouw
> #40355, sorry, still building.........
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Tim Olson
> Verzonden: donderdag 10 augustus 2006 6:36
> Aan: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Onderwerp: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> So that "small nosewheel shimmy" I've mentioned for the past couple
> of weeks....
>
> Tonight I found that the old posts someone previously made on this
> subject REALLY need to be not only investigated fully, but I
> completely believe that basically EVERY RV-10 will have this
> problem if you do not plan ahead and do something about it before it
> happens to you.
>
> Check out this Front Axle and Fork wear write-up:
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
>
>
> If you read my write-up, you'll see that I previously even called
> Van's after someone else had the problem, trying to proactively
> "fix" the issue, even though I wasn't fully aware of exactly how
> the problem manifested itself. What REALLY would be nice is if people
> find things like this, post some pictures and an explanation.
> A picture is worth 1000 words, and it makes it much easier to
> understand. Had I known about this before, I would not be in this
> position today. My front Fork is now worn with a groove, and my
> temper is lit. Tomorrow I'll be calling again to find out if
> there is already a "fix" that is finally publicly known...and then
> I'll add it to the above page.
>
> Additionally, this has prompted me to stay up a little extra tonight
> and lay the groundwork for the "Maintenance Issue" section of the
> RV-10 Tips page at:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html
>
> Hopefully I can get some good input from others about things that
> everyone really needs to watch for once they start flying. Lets
> keep these planes in the air, and keep them safe.
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: has anyone had this problem? |
Yes, I started to bend the tabs and began to see cracks in the powder
coating. I am facing some careful measurement process so that I
don't create additional work for myself.
I have a little over 30 hours. A three week paint job took seven
weeks to complete and grounded me with much pain.
I am going to california (from Florida) so I will be putting some
hours on the BigBird. I will post some performance number for
comparison after the trip.
Do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Aug 10, 2006, at 7:37 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> I can't remember exactly how deep those plastic/UHMW endcaps are
> on the pedal mounts, but that might be just what you need. But
> you'd have to make sure the pedals are still oriented with enough
> gap so they don't rub as the pass eachother. From the sounds of it,
> you've also thought of bending the attach tab already, as that would
> be too simple.
>
> How may hours are you up to now?
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Rob Kermanj wrote:
>> My bolts are flipped and it still digs, especially when the left
>> pedal is pressed considering that the tunnel tapers out. I have
>> tried moving the left rudder assembly to the right but there is
>> not slack in the bearing blocks. I think my only solution at this
>> point is to cut the supporting tube's right end about a 1/4',
>> insert it into the right bearing block and shim the left end.
>> What do you think?
>> I will post a photo today, perhaps others will run into the same
>> problem.
>> Rob Kermanj
>> On Aug 10, 2006, at 12:44 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com
>>> <mailto:Tim@MyRV10.com>>
>>>
>>> When Randy had his inspection, one of the "Dings" I heard was the
>>> bolts
>>> needed to have the nut on the outside of the pedals so the cotter
>>> pins didn't snag your shoes. This puts the nut right next to the
>>> tunnel, of
>>> course.
>>>
>>> So, I tried to prepare by mounting the bolt that way. I found
>>> that mine
>>> rubbed the tunnel. So, I prayed that nobody would say anything and
>>> mounted my bolts with the rounded head towards the tunnel. After
>>> that,
>>> I haven't had any rubbing.
>>>
>>> If you get rubbing, even with that bolt flipped, then I'm
>>> wondering if
>>> there isn't anything you can do with those nylon blocks on the
>>> longerons
>>> up on top to shift the pedals slightly so that they are further
>>> from the
>>> tunnel. I know what you mean, the pedals are close, but on mine
>>> they
>>> don't touch anymore. I was unable to allow myself to keep the
>>> carpeting on the tunnel in that area though....the gap wasn't big
>>> enough
>>> and I didn't want the cable links hanging up on the carpet some day.
>>>
>>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rob Kermanj wrote:
>>>> My left rudder pedal rubs against the tunnel skin and is
>>>> starting to split the aluminum. The attachment bolt that
>>>> connects the rudder cable on the passenger side is tight against
>>>> the tunnel skin.
>>>> I would appreciate you email if you have the same problem and
>>>> any solution that you have come up with. I am at the head
>>>> scratching stage right now.
>>>> Rob Kermanj
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - The RV10-List Email Forum -
>>> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> NOTE: Msg Size Limit Now At: 1MB - 08/08/06 (was 2MB)
>>> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>>> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>>> --> http://wiki.matronics.com
>>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>>> Thank you for your generous support!
>>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | has anyone had this problem? |
Serviceability. The conduit should allow frequent and easy inspection
of the direct strands for signs of abrasion, break or kinks. (Removal).
Great idea, now how were you going to frequently inspect the cables
directly? Hence the fairleads through ribs or stringers. The key
points are penetrations. Terminations, changes in angle around pulleys
and close proximity to other wear components.
John Cox - KUAO
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: has anyone had this problem?
Try the West Marine Cable Guides. The model number is 107656 and are
5/16th size. I ordered three of them and cut the third one in half and
ran the extra halves back past the baggage compartment bulkhead past the
battery as well. It was a little extra work and I used Plastic clamps in
the back obtained from the local Lowes store and pop riveted them to the
side of the tunnel.
Good Luck,
Russ Daves
N710RV Flying
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kermanj <mailto:flysrv10@gmail.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 12:58 PM
Subject: RV10-List: has anyone had this problem?
My left rudder pedal rubs against the tunnel skin and is
starting to split the aluminum. The attachment bolt that connects the
rudder cable on the passenger side is tight against the tunnel skin.
I would appreciate you email if you have the same problem and
any solution that you have come up with. I am at the head scratching
stage right now.
Rob Kermanj
Message 8
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| Subject: | Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Man, someone didn't have their coffee yet when they designed that.
Before even reading your write-up or looking at the pictures the first
thing that popped into my head was a washer. I can't believe they put
in a SS bushing against an aluminum fork and didn't realize this would
happen. Duh.
Simplest and quickest fix is exactly what you are thinking Tim. Get a
large SS fender washer to take up the force from the bushing and spread
it out on the fork. Check the usual suspects such as McMaster-Carr or
worst case fabricate your own.
Someone was asleep at the wheel on this one.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 #352 Buildus Interuptus due to moving
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
So that "small nosewheel shimmy" I've mentioned for the past couple of
weeks....
Tonight I found that the old posts someone previously made on this
subject REALLY need to be not only investigated fully, but I completely
believe that basically EVERY RV-10 will have this problem if you do not
plan ahead and do something about it before it happens to you.
Check out this Front Axle and Fork wear write-up:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
If you read my write-up, you'll see that I previously even called Van's
after someone else had the problem, trying to proactively "fix" the
issue, even though I wasn't fully aware of exactly how the problem
manifested itself. What REALLY would be nice is if people find things
like this, post some pictures and an explanation.
A picture is worth 1000 words, and it makes it much easier to
understand. Had I known about this before, I would not be in this
position today. My front Fork is now worn with a groove, and my temper
is lit. Tomorrow I'll be calling again to find out if there is already
a "fix" that is finally publicly known...and then I'll add it to the
above page.
Additionally, this has prompted me to stay up a little extra tonight and
lay the groundwork for the "Maintenance Issue" section of the RV-10 Tips
page at:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html
Hopefully I can get some good input from others about things that
everyone really needs to watch for once they start flying. Lets keep
these planes in the air, and keep them safe.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Message 9
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| Subject: | Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Vern W. Smith" <Vern@teclabsinc.com>
Hi Tim,
On my old Cessna 150 they used caps (in place of the bushing U-1023)
that fits over the end of the shaft (U-1009). When the shaft is bolted
to the fork the cap is held in place by the compression between the bolt
head and the end of the shaft. I never really understood the why it was
designed that way until looking at your pictures.
If the shaft size is the same you may be able to pick up some used caps
for a Cessna and use these to replace the bushings.
Vern (#40324 wings) do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 4:40 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the
RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Thanks Henkjan, I only wish I had a mill handy again, but my friend
who's I used moved away. It sounds like you did exactly what needs
to be done, but it's a 1-off solution. I'd love to see photos
of yours or anyone's assemblies that they've fixed, but I don't
want to see you disassemble just for photos. Thanks for the
description of the fix though. External photos would be nice.
I'd love to see how big that piece is that fits next to the bearings.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Henkjan van der Zouw wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Henkjan van der Zouw"
<henkjan@zme.nl>
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> I did not like the construction of the front wheel bearing and made a
> change even before putting my 10 on it's wheels because I had fear
about
> exactly what happened to your front wheel.
> Van's provides two bushing made from thin wall stainless steel tubing
> for mounting at the outside of the bearings only, this will not
prevent
> the bearing inner rings from rotating at the shaft, due to the heavy
> seals my inner rings were rotating at the shaft, I didn't like that,
> feared that the bushings would damage the fork, your experience proves
> that.
>
> Here's what I did, first I determined the distance between the bearing
> inner rings, then I made an aliminium bushing on the lathe just a
little
> wider than the measured distance ( 0.1 to 0.2 mm) to give the bearings
> just that little play that they need.
> Then I made two aluminium bushings for the outside, dimensions just so
> that the total of the two outside bushings, the two bearing inner
rings
> and the inside bushing are a little bit longer then the shaft, it all
> clamps together during assembly.
> I did not use the bushings supplied by Van's.
> Now it's assembled it's a very rigid construction that allows the
> bearings just to rotate at the point that they should as well as both
> seals.
> Need to say that the length of the bushing between the inner rings
needs
> to be measured for every wheel separately due to tolerances of the
> wheels.
>
> I can disassemble it again and post pictures if you want.
>
>
> Henkjan van der Zouw
> #40355, sorry, still building.........
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Tim Olson
> Verzonden: donderdag 10 augustus 2006 6:36
> Aan: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Onderwerp: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the
RV-10
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> So that "small nosewheel shimmy" I've mentioned for the past couple
> of weeks....
>
> Tonight I found that the old posts someone previously made on this
> subject REALLY need to be not only investigated fully, but I
> completely believe that basically EVERY RV-10 will have this
> problem if you do not plan ahead and do something about it before it
> happens to you.
>
> Check out this Front Axle and Fork wear write-up:
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
>
>
> If you read my write-up, you'll see that I previously even called
> Van's after someone else had the problem, trying to proactively
> "fix" the issue, even though I wasn't fully aware of exactly how
> the problem manifested itself. What REALLY would be nice is if people
> find things like this, post some pictures and an explanation.
> A picture is worth 1000 words, and it makes it much easier to
> understand. Had I known about this before, I would not be in this
> position today. My front Fork is now worn with a groove, and my
> temper is lit. Tomorrow I'll be calling again to find out if
> there is already a "fix" that is finally publicly known...and then
> I'll add it to the above page.
>
> Additionally, this has prompted me to stay up a little extra tonight
> and lay the groundwork for the "Maintenance Issue" section of the
> RV-10 Tips page at:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html
>
> Hopefully I can get some good input from others about things that
> everyone really needs to watch for once they start flying. Lets
> keep these planes in the air, and keep them safe.
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Arc protection diodes |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick
I built my own Trim/Flap controller board for my RV-9 and
RV-10. It uses all solid state MosFet so there is no moving parts to
wear out. I used 50 Amp Mosfet for the Flap motor so they don't even
get the least bit hot.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
CDNI Principal Engineer
Sprint PCS
16020 West 113th Street
Lenexa, KS 66219
Mailstop KSLNXK0101
(913) 859-1414 (Office)
(913) 226-0106 (Pcs)
(913) 859-1234 (Fax)
Ray.R.Doerr@sprint.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 7:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Arc protection diodes
Anyone else who built their own trim/relay board know the value for the
diode rectifiers used to protect the relay and trim switches from arcing
the contacts? Or any on who used the Aircraft Extras or Ray Allen relay
decks know what value they put in their decks?
I suspect a 1 amp by 50 volt should do. Circut draws less than an amp.
Rick S.
40185
=========================
to
and
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
=========================
=========================
the
=========================
=========================
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=========================
===========
Message 11
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| Subject: | Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@sprint.com>
I didn't have much luck with Van's on this issue as well. My A
& P caught this issue before I had the plane inspected and what we came
up with is to shave .040 off the aluminum axle itself so the wheel won't
slide side to side. Once I did this the wheel was solidly in the middle
in the axle with enough force on the bearings so as to create a slight
drag on the tire when trying to turn it by hand.
I will check on mine tonight and report back. I currently have
106 hours on my plane.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
N519RV (Flying)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
So that "small nosewheel shimmy" I've mentioned for the past couple
of weeks....
Tonight I found that the old posts someone previously made on this
subject REALLY need to be not only investigated fully, but I
completely believe that basically EVERY RV-10 will have this
problem if you do not plan ahead and do something about it before it
happens to you.
Check out this Front Axle and Fork wear write-up:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
If you read my write-up, you'll see that I previously even called
Van's after someone else had the problem, trying to proactively
"fix" the issue, even though I wasn't fully aware of exactly how
the problem manifested itself. What REALLY would be nice is if people
find things like this, post some pictures and an explanation.
A picture is worth 1000 words, and it makes it much easier to
understand. Had I known about this before, I would not be in this
position today. My front Fork is now worn with a groove, and my
temper is lit. Tomorrow I'll be calling again to find out if
there is already a "fix" that is finally publicly known...and then
I'll add it to the above page.
Additionally, this has prompted me to stay up a little extra tonight
and lay the groundwork for the "Maintenance Issue" section of the
RV-10 Tips page at:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html
Hopefully I can get some good input from others about things that
everyone really needs to watch for once they start flying. Lets
keep these planes in the air, and keep them safe.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I have some new info on the Axle issue. I'll post the text here,
but I updated the web page for better readability.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
---
Refer to page 46-06 on your plans for visual information
I both figured out an idea, and just got off the phone with Gus at
Van's. Yes, they are aware of the issue. Apparently they did change
the U-1023 spacers that are delivered with the kits and now instead of
thin stainless steel, they're thick aluminum spacers, that should spin
less easily, especially stuck against the similar aluminum, as it might
tend to gall and stick. He didn't know why they didn't make it an S.B.
and send out new parts. So, this is DEFINITELY something to address for
anyone who hasn't yet, and these parts should be available free. This
isn't to say that the new fix is ideal, but certainly better than what I
had to fly with for 100+ hours.
The NOSE FORK ASSY part is somewhere around $160, for those who are
interested. I may end up doing that, depending on how paranoid I
am....which remains to be seen.
I am getting the new spacers via UPS ground, instead of overnight,
because I also have one other thing that I'd like to try and accomplish.
Personally, I think I know what needs to be done to protect those
forks. Today at fastenal I found 3/8" ID x 1.5" OD stainless fender
washers and they're .050" thick. A very similar Aviation hardware
washer would be the AN970-6, which are only 12 cents at Van's and are
1-5/8" diameter and .063 thick. The idea is that if that U-1009 axle
is cut down in length by the same thickness as 2 of those washer, you
could then install a large-area flat washer against the fork, and that
would prevent EVER having that fork wear. You never want to
unnecessarily wear an expensive part. So, on my order is a few
AN970-6's, -7's, and a new U-1009 axle. The axle was about $15, and I
ordered it so that I could allow these parts to ship UPS ground, and
still feel good about chopping up my old U-1009 and shortening it at a
local machine shop so I can put these washers in for the weekend. If
the new spacers work fine with my shortened axle and washers, then I
will just leave it that way permanently. Small price to pay to fix the
issue fast....less than an hours' flight time. The bigger problem is
until I either get over it, or buy a new fork assy, I'm going to have
that nagging thought of the fork damage. There's still about .290-.300
thickness to that fork, which should be good, especially if you hold
that nosewheel off well on landing.
More photos to come as things come together...
-----
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
> Check out this Front Axle and Fork wear write-up:
> http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
>
>
> If you read my write-up, you'll see that I previously even called Van's
> after someone else had the problem, trying to proactively "fix" the
> issue, even though I wasn't fully aware of exactly how the problem
> manifested itself. What REALLY would be nice is if people find things
> like this, post some pictures and an explanation.
> A picture is worth 1000 words, and it makes it much easier to
> understand. Had I known about this before, I would not be in this
> position today. My front Fork is now worn with a groove, and my temper
> is lit. Tomorrow I'll be calling again to find out if there is already
> a "fix" that is finally publicly known...and then I'll add it to the
> above page.
>
> Additionally, this has prompted me to stay up a little extra tonight and
> lay the groundwork for the "Maintenance Issue" section of the RV-10 Tips
> page at:
>
> http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html
>
> Hopefully I can get some good input from others about things that
> everyone really needs to watch for once they start flying. Lets keep
> these planes in the air, and keep them safe.
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
Why not just drill a single hole in each side of the fork and into the
spacers just forward or aft of the axle bolt? Counter sink the hole(s)
on the outside of the fork (both sides), tap the hole in the spacer for
a #8 screw, insert a #8 countersunk/flush screw in each hole and you're
done! No way that spacer is gonna rotate...
I did this on my RV-7A before this was ever even mentioned as I could
see that the spacer could easily rotate and cause the fork to be
'grooved'. So far the 'preventive measure' taken above has proved to
work, took less than 10 minutes and I didn't even need a lathe...
Jack Lockamy
N174JL RV-7A 210 hrs
Camarillo, CA
www.jacklockamy.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike@cleavelandtool.com>
Back in the 80's and early 90's before the full swivel tail wheel all the
tail dragger RVs had a similar problem with the tail wheel. We made a kit
to fix it using the same idea as Henkjan. I don't know if it would be
possible to make a kit for this if the wheels vary in thickness, but if
someone finds a solution I would be happy to make a kit of the parts.
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, Iowa 50036
515-432-6794
mike@cleavelandtool.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henkjan van der
Zouw
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Henkjan van der Zouw" <henkjan@zme.nl>
Hi Tim,
I did not like the construction of the front wheel bearing and made a
change even before putting my 10 on it's wheels because I had fear about
exactly what happened to your front wheel.
Van's provides two bushing made from thin wall stainless steel tubing
for mounting at the outside of the bearings only, this will not prevent
the bearing inner rings from rotating at the shaft, due to the heavy
seals my inner rings were rotating at the shaft, I didn't like that,
feared that the bushings would damage the fork, your experience proves
that.
Here's what I did, first I determined the distance between the bearing
inner rings, then I made an aliminium bushing on the lathe just a little
wider than the measured distance ( 0.1 to 0.2 mm) to give the bearings
just that little play that they need.
Then I made two aluminium bushings for the outside, dimensions just so
that the total of the two outside bushings, the two bearing inner rings
and the inside bushing are a little bit longer then the shaft, it all
clamps together during assembly.
I did not use the bushings supplied by Van's.
Now it's assembled it's a very rigid construction that allows the
bearings just to rotate at the point that they should as well as both
seals.
Need to say that the length of the bushing between the inner rings needs
to be measured for every wheel separately due to tolerances of the
wheels.
I can disassemble it again and post pictures if you want.
Henkjan van der Zouw
#40355, sorry, still building.........
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Tim Olson
Verzonden: donderdag 10 augustus 2006 6:36
Aan: rv10-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
So that "small nosewheel shimmy" I've mentioned for the past couple
of weeks....
Tonight I found that the old posts someone previously made on this
subject REALLY need to be not only investigated fully, but I
completely believe that basically EVERY RV-10 will have this
problem if you do not plan ahead and do something about it before it
happens to you.
Check out this Front Axle and Fork wear write-up:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
If you read my write-up, you'll see that I previously even called
Van's after someone else had the problem, trying to proactively
"fix" the issue, even though I wasn't fully aware of exactly how
the problem manifested itself. What REALLY would be nice is if people
find things like this, post some pictures and an explanation.
A picture is worth 1000 words, and it makes it much easier to
understand. Had I known about this before, I would not be in this
position today. My front Fork is now worn with a groove, and my
temper is lit. Tomorrow I'll be calling again to find out if
there is already a "fix" that is finally publicly known...and then
I'll add it to the above page.
Additionally, this has prompted me to stay up a little extra tonight
and lay the groundwork for the "Maintenance Issue" section of the
RV-10 Tips page at:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html
Hopefully I can get some good input from others about things that
everyone really needs to watch for once they start flying. Lets
keep these planes in the air, and keep them safe.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Ray,
You may still want to protect that fork.
I've got you beat on hours, but only by 1 hour....107.4.
Man, you're flying the pi$$ out of that thing! Good job!
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@sprint.com>
> I will check on mine tonight and report back. I currently have
> 106 hours on my plane.
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Yep, in my write-up, that's actually my proposed method of fixing
the rotation. I think this stuff should be done during the initial
build, and nobody even have a problem to talk about...especially
now that they'll have a thicker spacer, it would be easy to do.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Lockamy, Jack L wrote:
> Why not just drill a single hole in each side of the fork and into the
> spacers just forward or aft of the axle bolt? Counter sink the hole(s)
> on the outside of the fork (both sides), tap the hole in the spacer for
> a #8 screw, insert a #8 countersunk/flush screw in each hole and you're
> done! No way that spacer is gonna rotate...
>
> I did this on my RV-7A before this was ever even mentioned as I could
> see that the spacer could easily rotate and cause the fork to be
> 'grooved'. So far the 'preventive measure' taken above has proved to
> work, took less than 10 minutes and I didn't even need a lathe...
>
> Jack Lockamy
> N174JL RV-7A 210 hrs
> Camarillo, CA
> www.jacklockamy.com
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes@qnsi.net>
Mike,
This is one problem Van's should fix and very soon. This is be a Service
Bulletin.
Bobby
(40116)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Lauritsen - Work
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the
RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Lauritsen - Work"
--> <mike@cleavelandtool.com>
Back in the 80's and early 90's before the full swivel tail wheel all
the tail dragger RVs had a similar problem with the tail wheel. We made
a kit to fix it using the same idea as Henkjan. I don't know if it
would be possible to make a kit for this if the wheels vary in
thickness, but if someone finds a solution I would be happy to make a
kit of the parts.
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, Iowa 50036
515-432-6794
mike@cleavelandtool.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henkjan van
der Zouw
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 1:59 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the
RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Henkjan van der Zouw" <henkjan@zme.nl>
Hi Tim,
I did not like the construction of the front wheel bearing and made a
change even before putting my 10 on it's wheels because I had fear about
exactly what happened to your front wheel.
Van's provides two bushing made from thin wall stainless steel tubing
for mounting at the outside of the bearings only, this will not prevent
the bearing inner rings from rotating at the shaft, due to the heavy
seals my inner rings were rotating at the shaft, I didn't like that,
feared that the bushings would damage the fork, your experience proves
that.
Here's what I did, first I determined the distance between the bearing
inner rings, then I made an aliminium bushing on the lathe just a little
wider than the measured distance ( 0.1 to 0.2 mm) to give the bearings
just that little play that they need.
Then I made two aluminium bushings for the outside, dimensions just so
that the total of the two outside bushings, the two bearing inner rings
and the inside bushing are a little bit longer then the shaft, it all
clamps together during assembly.
I did not use the bushings supplied by Van's.
Now it's assembled it's a very rigid construction that allows the
bearings just to rotate at the point that they should as well as both
seals.
Need to say that the length of the bushing between the inner rings needs
to be measured for every wheel separately due to tolerances of the
wheels.
I can disassemble it again and post pictures if you want.
Henkjan van der Zouw
#40355, sorry, still building.........
-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] Namens Tim Olson
Verzonden: donderdag 10 augustus 2006 6:36
Aan: rv10-list@matronics.com
Onderwerp: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
So that "small nosewheel shimmy" I've mentioned for the past couple of
weeks....
Tonight I found that the old posts someone previously made on this
subject REALLY need to be not only investigated fully, but I completely
believe that basically EVERY RV-10 will have this problem if you do not
plan ahead and do something about it before it happens to you.
Check out this Front Axle and Fork wear write-up:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
If you read my write-up, you'll see that I previously even called Van's
after someone else had the problem, trying to proactively "fix" the
issue, even though I wasn't fully aware of exactly how the problem
manifested itself. What REALLY would be nice is if people find things
like this, post some pictures and an explanation.
A picture is worth 1000 words, and it makes it much easier to
understand. Had I known about this before, I would not be in this
position today. My front Fork is now worn with a groove, and my temper
is lit. Tomorrow I'll be calling again to find out if there is already
a "fix" that is finally publicly known...and then I'll add it to the
above page.
Additionally, this has prompted me to stay up a little extra tonight and
lay the groundwork for the "Maintenance Issue" section of the RV-10 Tips
page at:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html
Hopefully I can get some good input from others about things that
everyone really needs to watch for once they start flying. Lets keep
these planes in the air, and keep them safe.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Message 18
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|
Sean,
Better check the plans!!!! The cowl attach hinges go in that rivet
line I think. You can pro-seal when you place the hinges but you better
wait till then. Look at the rivet call-outs on page 28-19, there are
none called for on the firewall/skin yet..
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 19
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--> RV10-List message posted by: <seanblair@adelphia.net>
Understood, John, but shouldn't I use Proseal at the access point between the firewall
and the skins? I don't plan to rivet until the hinges are installed and
don't see how I would get Proseal between the skins later.
Thanks,
Sean B.
#40225
---- John Hasbrouck <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com> wrote:
> Sean,
>
> Better check the plans!!!! The cowl attach hinges go in that rivet line
I think. You can pro-seal when you place the hinges but you better wait till
then. Look at the rivet call-outs on page 28-19, there are none called for on
the firewall/skin yet..
>
> John Hasbrouck
> #40264
Message 20
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I had a QB fuse, and had a similar dilema. I used proseal in the
notches around the forward side of the firewall, and then put a
fillet inside too. It would be nice to get some between the
skins, but to serve the purpose of sealing CO, that should do
fine. If you got it between the skins...just a super thin
layer, it would possibly keep moisture out better. You could
probably put just the tiniest bit in and cleco it and still
rivet it at a later date.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
seanblair@adelphia.net wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: <seanblair@adelphia.net>
>
> Understood, John, but shouldn't I use Proseal at the access point between the
firewall and the skins? I don't plan to rivet until the hinges are installed
and don't see how I would get Proseal between the skins later.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sean B.
> #40225
>
>
Message 21
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|
There are many LED nav light kits. Currently no tail light LED/Strobe
combos, so I went with the standard Whelen that Van's recommends. Hopefully
someone will make an LED retrofit for the same Whelen housing when the
technology permits.
Rob Wright
#392
Wings (L HID)
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of EFDsteve@AOL.COM
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: lighting
Check out Jeff Bordelon's site: http://www.jeffsrv-7a.com/LEDPROJECT.htm
I think that these are very nice. I'm using these wingtip position lights,
tho I'm not sure what I'm using for the tail yet.
Steve Weinstock
40230
Okay...another one. I plan to install LED position lighting. Any
recommendations? I'll be using a 12 volt system.
Is there a 12 volt LED strobe available? I see Whelen has one, but it's a
24 volt.
Thanks again,
Sean Blair
#40225
Message 22
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I installed the CreativAir Wingtip LED position, strobe, and landing
light setup in my -9A and have been very happy with it so far. The
construction process was fun and relatively painless. I used the
Whelen tail position/strobe in the back of the rudder.
http://www.my9a.com/lights.asp
One thing that I noticed however about this system is that since the
lights are designed for the smaller wingtips on the 7/8/9,
asthetically it seems a bit too small in the wingtip of the -10.
Maybe they'll come up with a slightly larger layout for the -10
before I need to make a decision because otherwise I really like the
product.
Regards,
Mike Schipper
RV-10 - #40576 - Emp. - www.rvten.com
RV-9A - N63MS - Flying - www.my9a.com
On Aug 10, 2006, at 3:56 PM, Robert G. Wright wrote:
> Okay=85..another one. I plan to install LED position lighting. Any
> recommendations? I=92ll be using a 12 volt system.
>
> Is there a 12 volt LED strobe available? I see Whelen has one, but
> it=92s a 24 volt.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Sean Blair
>
> #40225
Message 23
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| Subject: | Tru-Trak roll servo neutral position answer |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Robert G. Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
No wonder there's no definite answer in the plans. Finally got my answer on
the roll servo pushrod neutral position.
Rob Wright
#392 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: Zach Williamson [mailto:zach@trutrakap.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: FW: TTFS Website Feedback
Robert,
The roll servo push rod is adjusted so that when the primary controls
are moved from stop to stop the servo arm will nearly contact the servo
stops. The center to center distance of the push rod will vary slightly
from airplane to airplane.
The Sorcerer is capable of driving a yaw damper but the yaw damper (and
as a result a third servo) is not required.
Thanks,
Zach
>
>I have my two servos drop shipped from you through my purchase at SteinAir.
>After reviewing drawings/pictures, I need to know the neutral position for
>the roll servo push rod.
>
>Also, thinking about using the sorcerer. Will I need the third servo? I'm
>not planning on yaw damping.
>Thanks.
>
>Robert Wright
>
>
>--
Zach Williamson
Trutrak Flight Systems
1-866-TRUTRAK
(479) 751-0250 ext. 229
www.trutrakap.com
Message 24
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
Tim is right. My point about the pro-seal was to be aware where the hinges
go so as not to creat a big mess that will need clean-up later. I think a
nice bead of the stuff in the joint between the inside of the skin and the
firewall would do nicely to seal. Should have been more specific but was
heading back to the office when I read the first post.....john
Message 25
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| Subject: | Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Dunne" <acs@acspropeller.com.au>
Tim, fantastic idea. I'm glad someone like yourself is taking the time to
help the rest of us out with these information issues.
Following is an extract from an email sent to me a few days ago,
"returned the nosewheel to Matco to have it replaced with WHLNW511.25 which
is correct for the valve stem on the tube and avoids the clearance problem
with the supplies WHLNW501.25."
As I'm no where near my plans at the moment I don't know if it is relevant
to your findings, is an issue or can even help.
I'd also suggest adding to your maint issues, the clearance issue with the
elevator trim motor and as someone has mentioned in the last few days the
co-pilot left rudder pedal clearance on the tunnel wall. Both could pose
safety issues down the track.
John 40315
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, 10 August 2006 2:36 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
"Additionally, this has prompted me to stay up a little extra tonight
and lay the groundwork for the "Maintenance Issue" section of the
RV-10 Tips page at:
http://www.myrv10.com/tips/index.html
Hopefully I can get some good input from others about things that
everyone really needs to watch for once they start flying. Lets
keep these planes in the air, and keep them safe.
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying"
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
I'm currently building in Justin, TX in George Orndorff's hangar, he's
the one that makes the RV building videos and is also a Van's tech
center, and I was talking to him about this problem, wondering if I
needed to take some type of action on mine. His response to me on this
issue was that this was a quite common occurrence on the RV's. He said
the reason he believes it happens is that when the builder tightens down
the bolt holding on the bushing and tire that they tighten it down too
much. He said I should just tighten it down just until it's snug. Then
after flying it for 5 or 10 hours check it and retighten it. Do this
over the first 20 or 30 hours.
I have a friend who is an A&P and also a DAR and I called him and ask
him the same question. He agreed with George. He said to tighten the
bolt down until a little grease comes out of the bearing and then back
it off a little and then keep an eye on it for awhile.
This may not be the case on Tim's plane though?
For what ever it's worth.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 27
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| Subject: | IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy |
RV-10 builders nearing Firewall Forward or engine planning stage. Having not ordered
the Firewall Forward kit yet and just planning ahead, I've looked at the
plans and determined the following hoses are required for the IO-540 installation:
VA-119 IE VMP HOSE (AN4, 21.5, AIR) $ 34.60
VA-102 FUEL PRES. HOSE (AN4, 15.5, FUEL) $ 58.20
VA-133 OIL PRESS HOSE (AN4, 27.25, OIL) $ 69.00
VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY HOSE (AN6, 14.0, FUEL) $ 69.65
VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 (AN6, 25.5, FUEL) $153.45
VA-135 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 16.5, OIL) $ 66.85
VA-190 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 27.0, OIL) $ 95.65
I'm not sure but I think the only Van's hose that is Teflon with the integral firesleeve are the VA-138 and VA-189 hoses. I requested a quote from Aircraft Hose (http://www.aircrafthose.com) for the above hoses ALL Teflon with integral firesleeve except the (VA-119) MAP Hose. They came back with and initial price of $491 for the set. The Van's price for the set of hoses (not all Teflon with integral firesleeve) is about $545. I've asked them if they could offer a greater discount if we could arrange a group buy. I haven't heard back from them yet but wanted to get you thinking.
Here are the specifics.
Stratoflex Integral Firesleeve Hoses for RV-10
111-4 hose with a 300-4D fitting 21.50" Long (111001-4CR0214) (IO-540 Man Press.)
124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 15.50" Long (124J001-4CR0154) (IO-540 Fuel Press.)
124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 27.25" Long (124J001-4CR0272) (IO-540 Oil Press.)
124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 14.00" Long (124J001-6CR0140) (IO-540 Fuel Supply)
124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 25.50" Long (124J001-6CR0254) (IO-540 Fuel Line)
124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 16.50" Long (124J001-8CR0164) (Oil cooler)
124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 27.00" Long (124J001-8CR0270) (Oil cooler)
Hose with Integral firesleeve
http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic1248j.jpg
Hose with external firesleeve
http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic2650c.jpg
William Curtis
http://nerv10.com/
Message 28
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| Subject: | Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
They are basically correct. However I disagree with their solution.
When you have two metals of this dissimilar of a hardness rubbing
together with such a small surface area something is going to give
eventually. You need to spread that across a more substantial area.
Even my cheap wheelbarrow has this provision.
Michael
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne
Edgerton
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the
RV-10
I'm currently building in Justin, TX in George Orndorff's hangar, he's
the one that makes the RV building videos and is also a Van's tech
center, and I was talking to him about this problem, wondering if I
needed to take some type of action on mine. His response to me on this
issue was that this was a quite common occurrence on the RV's. He said
the reason he believes it happens is that when the builder tightens down
the bolt holding on the bushing and tire that they tighten it down too
much. He said I should just tighten it down just until it's snug. Then
after flying it for 5 or 10 hours check it and retighten it. Do this
over the first 20 or 30 hours.
I have a friend who is an A&P and also a DAR and I called him and ask
him the same question. He agreed with George. He said to tighten the
bolt down until a little grease comes out of the bearing and then back
it off a little and then keep an eye on it for awhile.
This may not be the case on Tim's plane though?
For what ever it's worth.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
Here is a link where one can learn a lot about tapered roller bearings,
and the proper design intent. Granted our nosewheels won't see as many
miles or speeds as a BMW motorcyle, but I found the article very
informative. I don't have the nosewheel yet so I don't know exactly how
it all goes together , but from Tim's pictures it looks pretty cheesy.
-Chris Lucas
#40072
R75/5
do not archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
Oops forgot the link
http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/wheel_bearing/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the
RV-10
Here is a link where one can learn a lot about tapered roller
bearings, and the proper design intent. Granted our nosewheels won't see
as many miles or speeds as a BMW motorcyle, but I found the article very
informative. I don't have the nosewheel yet so I don't know exactly how
it all goes together , but from Tim's pictures it looks pretty cheesy.
-Chris Lucas
#40072
R75/5
do not archive
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
I got a complete kit of integral fire sleeve hoses from these guys for
my Mooney. Terrific, lightweight, smaller than external firesleeve, etc.
Price was a bit more, but was for 7 hoses, all requiring TSO tags, etc.
Good company.
W. Curtis wrote:
> RV-10 builders nearing Firewall Forward or engine planning stage. Having
> not ordered the Firewall Forward kit yet and just planning ahead, I've
> looked at the plans and determined the following hoses are required for
> the IO-540 installation:
>
> VA-119 IE VMP HOSE (AN4, 21.5, AIR) $ 34.60
> VA-102 FUEL PRES. HOSE (AN4, 15.5, FUEL) $ 58.20
> VA-133 OIL PRESS HOSE (AN4, 27.25, OIL) $ 69.00
> VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY HOSE (AN6, 14.0, FUEL) $ 69.65
> VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 (AN6, 25.5, FUEL) $153.45
> VA-135 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 16.5, OIL) $ 66.85
> VA-190 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 27.0, OIL) $ 95.65
>
> I'm not sure but I think the only Van's hose that is Teflon with the
> integral firesleeve are the VA-138 and VA-189 hoses. I requested a quote
> from Aircraft Hose (http://www.aircrafthose.com) for the above hoses ALL
> Teflon with integral firesleeve except the (VA-119) MAP Hose. They came
> back with and initial price of $491 for the set. The Van's price for the
> set of hoses (not all Teflon with integral firesleeve) is about $545.
> I've asked them if they could offer a greater discount if we could
> arrange a group buy. I haven't heard back from them yet but wanted to
> get you thinking.
>
> Here are the specifics.
> Stratoflex Integral Firesleeve Hoses for RV-10
> 111-4 hose with a 300-4D fitting 21.50" Long (111001-4CR0214) (IO-540
> Man Press.)
> 124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 15.50" Long (124J001-4CR0154) (IO-540
> Fuel Press.)
> 124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 27.25" Long (124J001-4CR0272) (IO-540
> Oil Press.)
> 124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 14.00" Long (124J001-6CR0140) (IO-540
> Fuel Supply)
> 124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 25.50" Long (124J001-6CR0254) (IO-540
> Fuel Line)
> 124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 16.50" Long (124J001-8CR0164) (Oil
> cooler)
> 124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 27.00" Long (124J001-8CR0270) (Oil
> cooler)
>
> Hose with Integral firesleeve
> http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic1248j.jpg
>
> Hose with external firesleeve
> http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic2650c.jpg
>
> William Curtis
> http://nerv10.com/
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: IO-540 Hose kit -possible group buy |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Bill, I'm close to receiving my engine, count me as interested
Deems
W. Curtis wrote:
> RV-10 builders nearing Firewall Forward or engine planning stage.
> Having not ordered the Firewall Forward kit yet and just planning
> ahead, I've looked at the plans and determined the following hoses are
> required for the IO-540 installation:
>
> VA-119 IE VMP HOSE (AN4, 21.5, AIR) $ 34.60
> VA-102 FUEL PRES. HOSE (AN4, 15.5, FUEL) $ 58.20
> VA-133 OIL PRESS HOSE (AN4, 27.25, OIL) $ 69.00
> VA-138 FUEL SUPPLY HOSE (AN6, 14.0, FUEL) $ 69.65
> VA-189 FUEL LINE IO-540 (AN6, 25.5, FUEL) $153.45
> VA-135 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 16.5, OIL) $ 66.85
> VA-190 OIL COOLER HOSE (AN8, 27.0, OIL) $ 95.65
>
> I'm not sure but I think the only Van's hose that is Teflon with the
> integral firesleeve are the VA-138 and VA-189 hoses. I requested a
> quote from Aircraft Hose (http://www.aircrafthose.com) for the above
> hoses ALL Teflon with integral firesleeve except the (VA-119) MAP
> Hose. They came back with and initial price of $491 for the set. The
> Van's price for the set of hoses (not all Teflon with integral
> firesleeve) is about $545. I've asked them if they could offer a
> greater discount if we could arrange a group buy. I haven't heard back
> from them yet but wanted to get you thinking.
>
> Here are the specifics.
> Stratoflex Integral Firesleeve Hoses for RV-10
> 111-4 hose with a 300-4D fitting 21.50" Long (111001-4CR0214) (IO-540
> Man Press.)
> 124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 15.50" Long (124J001-4CR0154)
> (IO-540 Fuel Press.)
> 124-4J hose with a 524-4CR fitting 27.25" Long (124J001-4CR0272)
> (IO-540 Oil Press.)
> 124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 14.00" Long (124J001-6CR0140)
> (IO-540 Fuel Supply)
> 124-6J hose with a 524-6CR fitting 25.50" Long (124J001-6CR0254)
> (IO-540 Fuel Line)
> 124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 16.50" Long (124J001-8CR0164) (Oil
> cooler)
> 124-8J hose with a 524-8CR fitting 27.00" Long (124J001-8CR0270) (Oil
> cooler)
>
> Hose with Integral firesleeve
> http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic1248j.jpg
>
> Hose with external firesleeve
> http://www.aircrafthose.com/images/pic2650c.jpg
>
> William Curtis
> http://nerv10.com/
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Wayne, for what it's worth, I really don't think this will work
that way on the RV-10. I may be wrong, but I think you really need
to tighten that thing well on this plane or you'll REALLY have problems.
I'm betting that the assembly those guys are familiar with isn't the
same thing as what we have. If you have any looseness, you're going
to really screw up your axle. I just updated that page....scroll
to the bottom to read tonights update. I got a little long winded again
(surprise surprise), but I explained the axle and rotation and other
things in a bit of depth. For you -10 builders, that page is really
worth understanding, just so you can ponder it and know what's going
on there....even if you come to some other conclusion. (if you do,
let me know...I'd love to hear it, or hear exactly what the mechanics
are that George thinks would be better if it were looser)
I'll post the text of tonights update here again, but you would be
much better served to just read it on the page, and see the latest
photos. This is just for the archive's sake.
Here's the link again.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/maintenance/20060809/index.html
---
Today I stopped by a machine shop and had them take off about .115" off
my axle, to accomodate 2 AN970-6 washers on the outer edge. Yes, they
are .063 each, so .126" would have been the standard, but I wanted the
axle to be even just a little more snug than before, because any flexing
inward will bring that valve cap closer to the fork. As a side note,
this from John D. today...a note someone sent him:
"returned the nosewheel to Matco to have it replaced with WHLNW511.25
which is correct for the valve stem on the tube and avoids the clearance
problem with the supplies WHLNW501.25."
In other words, Van's is sending out the wrong wheel for the application
on this plane...because they use this wheel for the RV-7's and such, and
didn't want to have to stock 2 parts. So we get to receive the one that
isn't made for the application, and therefore unless you swap wheels,
you're going to have minimal valve stem clearance.....pretty nice, huh?
<not>
Anyway, I had the axle cut shorter at a machine shop, and then I just
had to guesstimate how much to take off the 2 spacers. Knowing they had
worn into a taper on the inside, to fit against the bearing, I had them
only cut down by .085" total. I did .035" on one side, and .050" on the
other. That way I could have a slightly longer sleeve on the left side,
so my valve stem had just that little extra clearance from the fork.
This brought forth a small problem... Tonight when I assembled it as in
the first photo below, it looked great. VERY much better than original.
Then, when I put the whole wheel together, I found that the spacers
had worn probably at least .120" because there was tons of slop in the
spacers yet, even though they now had a nice flat surface to sit
between, and had been cut less than the axle, and the washers were in
there to fill in some space. The spacers just spun. So, I decided
since I already ordered another axle, I'd take my bandsaw and VERY
carefully trim off some more axle, and just use one more washer on the
left side. That should keep that valve stem even FURTHER away. If I
was right, I could get it so there would be plenty of pressure on the
bearings and spacers to hold them in place so they don't spin. Sure
enough, it worked just great. I could now torque that bolt down tight
and keep the spacers from spinning, and the bearing too. Just to be
totally sure they never spun again, I drilled a couple of holes in the
stainless spacers, and remounted it all. Then I made a pilot hole in
the aluminum axle shaft, and took it all apart and tapped it for an 8-32
screw on each spacer. Then I cleaned it up, regreased, and put it all
together. Now it is very solid, and should never wear the fork
again....I just am left with a crappy fork...so I'll probably just get a
new one. Once my new spacers and axle come in, I may tear it all apart
and use those pieces, but I'll still probably cut the axle and spacers
down and use the washers on the outer ends. It will prevent your forks
from being the sacrificial component. The bearing, for future
reference, is a Timken LM-6700-LA (I think that's right, but I'll
re-check tomorrow)
A note about tightening the axle nut... Tonight on the RV-10 list,
someone said that George Orndorff (A Van's tech center place), says that
the bolt should only be snugged, and then rechecked often in the first
few hours. I don't personally believe this is true on the RV-10, but
perhaps it is on the other models. Here's why. I studied this long
and hard, and now I fully understand why this is such a huge freaking
issue. It didn't make sense at first, having worked on dozens and
dozens of automotive bearings in the past. You see, on automotive apps,
the bearings are pressed in on the backside, and a nut and washer holds
the bearing tight. But it pushes against a different area of the
bearing. And the grease seal is usually a seal that is pressed into the
hub, with a seal around the shaft on the ID of the seal. This is NOT
how these bearings are on this application. On THIS application, you
are expecting that the sleeves, the axle, the bolt, AND the inner race
area of the bearing do not ever rotate. The problem is, if these
bearings were a tight knurled, or press fit onto that axle shaft, it
might be easy to keep them from rotating by just not letting the shaft
spin. But, what happens here is that the grease seal is a large seal
that the wheel spins around....so the seal is on the OD of the bearing
in this case. That's why my stinking seals were so torn when the wheel
wobbled. The kicker to the problem is, if you don't have the spacers
very tight against the bearing, there's not enough force to keep the
bearing from turning on the shaft. If the bearing spins on the axle
shaft, then it's becoming USELESS as a bearing. At that point, you're
using the aluminum axle as the bushing, and the wheel is rolling by
spinning the hard steel bearing race against your soft aluminum axle
shaft.....instead of turning the roller bearings inside of the wheel's
outer race. The seal itself has a lot of drag against the wheel as it
spins, and this drag will make it so that the wheel tries REALLY hard to
make the bearing spin. As it turns out, if you don't have tight
spacers, it's really easy to get that bearing spinning. And once the
bearing is spinning, the spacers stuffed right up against it will spin
too. And once they start spinning, they'll spin against the fork. If
you have the stainless ones like me, they'll ABSOLUTELY then start
carving into your forks. If you have the new and improved thick
aluminum ones (that I can't comment firmly on because I haven't seen
them), then they would have more surface area against both the bearing
and the fork....so on one hand the bearing will try to turn it harder,
but the fork will prevent it harder as well. To me, this is STILL
going to be a less than ideal situation until you PREVENT the spacers
from turning, and you PROTECT the forks from being worn if they do turn.
The lock screws I put in should keep the spacers still. The washers
will protect the forks. The one further improvement that would be
simple would be to drill a tiny hole in the fork on one side, that
drills into the aluminum axle, and then tap for a small hex head
internal setscrew lock, so that you could pin the axle from rotating at
all too. Beyond that, the only real improvement I could think of is if
you could find a way to either press-fit, or hold that inner bearing
from turning on the axle. Perhaps knurling it, epoxy, a small keyway
and shear key, or something like that would be the ticket. If you've
done all of the other steps, and have tight spacers, you probably
wouldn't have any huge issues from that point.
The worst thing about it is that no matter what you do, you really don't
have independent control over how tight the bearings are
seated...separate from how tight the axle bolts are and how long the
spacers are. Just to let you know how this all ends up the way I have
it tonight, the wheel will not continue rolling if you spin it by hand.
I don't think it's too tight from a bearing perspective, but the
grease seals against the wheel hub provide a lot of drag, so they don't
let the wheel spin real freely.
A couple other tips, while I'm at it. By the time you get to 25 hours
on your plane, re-check that large nut that holds the fork on. Mine
needed to be tightened almost one full flat to the next castle stop, to
retorque it after it took it's set. I think the spec is about 24lbs.
pull of breakout force to rotate the nose at an angle.
The second tip that I can't yet verify is fairing balance. To prevent
shimmy, I've heard that a good idea is to balance your fairing. Since I
had a little lead shot around, and I wanted this all to be perfect now,
tonight I weighed out a little lead and taped it to the nose of the
nosewheel fairing. I got it so that I could hold it where it mounts, in
the centers of those 4 screw areas, and get it to be about neutrally
balanced. Then I just took a little shot away, poured the rest into
the nose of the fairing, and mixed a couple of squirts of epoxy. I
poured the epoxy into the nose over the shot, put down one layer of
cloth, and then a little more epoxy. By tomorrow that stuff won't be
going anywhere, and I already re-checked the balance and it's now much
less tail heavy, so maybe that will improve things too.
---
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - 107 hours Flying
Wayne Edgerton wrote:
> I'm currently building in Justin, TX in George Orndorff's hangar, he's
> the one that makes the RV building videos and is also a Van's tech
> center, and I was talking to him about this problem, wondering if I
> needed to take some type of action on mine. His response to me on this
> issue was that this was a quite common occurrence on the RV's. He said
> the reason he believes it happens is that when the builder tightens down
> the bolt holding on the bushing and tire that they tighten it down too
> much. He said I should just tighten it down just until it's snug. Then
> after flying it for 5 or 10 hours check it and retighten it. Do this
> over the first 20 or 30 hours.
>
> I have a friend who is an A&P and also a DAR and I called him and ask
> him the same question. He agreed with George. He said to tighten the
> bolt down until a little grease comes out of the bearing and then back
> it off a little and then keep an eye on it for awhile.
>
> This may not be the case on Tim's plane though?
>
> For what ever it's worth.
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
Tim,
Are you planning to drill thru the fork into the axle and TAP it with a
contersunk screw to keep the axle from turning like you did to the space
r? I am thinking it would be easy to do and would eliminate the axle fr
om turning even if the wheel got loose.
Dean
Getting engine today.
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<html><P>Tim,</P>
<P>Are you planning to drill thru the fork into the axle and TAP it with
a contersunk screw to keep the axle from turning like you did to the sp
acer? I am thinking it would be easy to do and would eliminate the
axle from turning even if the wheel got loose.</P>
<P>Dean</P>
<P>Getting engine today.</P></html>
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