Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:14 AM - Build times - time to get restarted? (Larry R)
2. 07:30 AM - Re: Build times - time to get restarted? (John Erickson)
3. 07:44 AM - Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 (bcondrey)
4. 07:51 AM - Re: Build times - time to get restarted? (Mark Ritter)
5. 09:54 AM - Re: Battery Cable Routing (Albert Gardner)
6. 09:59 AM - Re: Build times - time to get restarted? (Rick)
7. 10:08 AM - Re: Battery Cable Routing (Rick)
8. 10:29 AM - Re: Build times - time to get restarted? (Jim & Julie Wade)
9. 10:40 AM - Re: Battery Cable Routing (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
10. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: Build times - time to get restarted? (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
11. 02:25 PM - OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Sean Stephens)
12. 02:48 PM - not enough parts cabin top (Chris , Susie Darcy)
13. 03:12 PM - Jacks (Was Serious Front Axle...) (Roger Standley)
14. 03:44 PM - Re: not enough parts cabin top (Rene Felker)
15. 03:54 PM - Re: not enough parts cabin top (Chris , Susie Darcy)
16. 03:54 PM - Re: Jacks (Was Serious Front Axle...) (Marcus Cooper)
17. 03:55 PM - Re: not enough parts cabin top (McGANN, Ron)
18. 04:11 PM - Re: not enough parts cabin top (Chris , Susie Darcy)
19. 06:06 PM - Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only? (JACK LOCKAMY)
20. 06:13 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
21. 06:22 PM - Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only? (Jack Lockamy)
22. 06:31 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
23. 06:58 PM - Re: Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only? (Rob Kermanj)
24. 07:19 PM - Re: Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
25. 07:34 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Tim Olson)
26. 08:06 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Sean Stephens)
27. 08:33 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Kelly McMullen)
28. 09:14 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
29. 09:16 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Tim Dawson-Townsend)
30. 09:33 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Sean Stephens)
31. 09:52 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Kelly McMullen)
32. 09:52 PM - Re: GM LS2 Engine - opinions (EFDsteve@aol.com)
33. 09:56 PM - Manifold pressure hole (ddddsp1@juno.com)
34. 09:59 PM - Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Build times - time to get restarted? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry R <_lr_@yahoo.com>
I was one of the first to buy a tail kit (#22), but life intruded and
after some initial progress the kid has been untouched for the last 2
years. I'm now getting the itch to get hack into the project, but I'm
wonder if I've bit off more than I can chew.
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has completed, or nearly
completed a Quick-Build RV-10, regard times to completion for each of
the sub-kits (empecone, wings, etc). Did you try to optimize for lowest
cost of fastest build time? What major obstacles did you hit? What
words of advice/encouragement would you offer?
Its getting depressing to see the tail parts hanging there every time I
pull into the garage. Its time for me to either get my you-know-what in
gear or admit to myself that this isn't going to happen and sell the
tail kit.
Replies directly to this email _lr_@yahoo.com are welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Larry Rachman
ISP
__________________________________________________
Message 2
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| Subject: | Build times - time to get restarted? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Erickson" <john.erickson@cox.net>
Larry,
I've got kit #40208 and have also been getting discouraged now and then as I
see guys with slowbuild numbers well after mine flying already. I'm
military, have a couple kids, and while my building hasn't stopped (other
than during a couple deployments), let's just say the wing flaps have taken
me over 9 months so far, and not because the flaps are difficult.
That being said, when I first started building a couple years ago, I set a
goal of flying in 2 - 3 years. Obviously not going to happen. I changed my
goal a year or so ago. I enjoy building. A lot. However, when I try to put
a deadline on the project, it seems to turn from a fun project to a job.
I've decided I'm going to work on it at whatever pace is enjoyable, and it
will fly when it flies. (or as someone on the list said, I'll fly it when I
run out of parts.)
My recommendation. Get the tools out and get your shop set back up. Don't
try to power through building your plane (besides, we're not building
airplanes, we're building hundreds of small projects that end up flying in
close formation). Spend 5 minutes out in the garage doing a little bit.
Spend 4 hours if it feels good (and the family lets you). Just go out there
a couple times a week and say hi to the project. Eventually it will be
done. Don't worry about times for subcomponents or total build because then
you WILL get depressed when, like me, you find it takes longer to build part
X than Joe Bagodonuts took to do the same thing.
Just my $0.02 worth...
John
#40208 Wings (still)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry R
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:13 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Build times - time to get restarted?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry R <_lr_@yahoo.com>
I was one of the first to buy a tail kit (#22), but life intruded and after
some initial progress the kid has been untouched for the last 2 years. I'm
now getting the itch to get hack into the project, but I'm wonder if I've
bit off more than I can chew.
I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has completed, or nearly
completed a Quick-Build RV-10, regard times to completion for each of the
sub-kits (empecone, wings, etc). Did you try to optimize for lowest cost of
fastest build time? What major obstacles did you hit? What words of
advice/encouragement would you offer?
Its getting depressing to see the tail parts hanging there every time I pull
into the garage. Its time for me to either get my you-know-what in gear or
admit to myself that this isn't going to happen and sell the tail kit.
Replies directly to this email _lr_@yahoo.com are welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Larry Rachman
ISP
__________________________________________________
__________ NOD32 1.1721 (20060823) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bcondrey" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
I just talked w/Tom at Van's and his suggestion is to check spacing with a feeler
gauge and adjust the axle accordingly. He also said that behavior would be
possibly be very different with the wheel off the ground than with full weight
on it.
I guess I'll be measuring and adjusting the front axle length tonight...
On related note - what's the best way to jack up the plane for nose wheel work?
I've been using my engine hoist but assume there's another option for "in the
field" work.
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56657#56657
Message 4
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| Subject: | Build times - time to get restarted? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>
Larry,
I purchased tail kit #43 November 1, 2003 (QB Fuse and wings). The plane
was inspected on July 21 and I flew it on July 22, 2006. I worked on the
project two or three days most weeks and didn't let it consume all my free
time. Saving time for the grandchildren, fishing and a little time at the
office around pay day was just as important as finishing the plane. I
wanted to keep the project "fun". Some days you just have to say the hell
with it and go do something else.
Early on I decided not to keep track of my time or cost. It was going to
take what it took and I sure didn't want to set any deadlines. I get enough
of that stuff at my CPA office.
In my case it seemed to be more fun when I could enlist the help of friends
and enjoy a cold one at the end of a day bucking rivets. Most of my
friends will work for beer.
The plane is great and performs as advertised but I really enjoyed the
building. Learning new skills and the sense of accomplishment is what it
was all about for me.
Mark
>From: Larry R <_lr_@yahoo.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Build times - time to get restarted?
>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 06:13:28 -0700 (PDT)
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry R <_lr_@yahoo.com>
>
>I was one of the first to buy a tail kit (#22), but life intruded and
>after some initial progress the kid has been untouched for the last 2
>years. I'm now getting the itch to get hack into the project, but I'm
>wonder if I've bit off more than I can chew.
>
>I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has completed, or nearly
>completed a Quick-Build RV-10, regard times to completion for each of
>the sub-kits (empecone, wings, etc). Did you try to optimize for lowest
>cost of fastest build time? What major obstacles did you hit? What
>words of advice/encouragement would you offer?
>
>Its getting depressing to see the tail parts hanging there every time I
>pull into the garage. Its time for me to either get my you-know-what in
>gear or admit to myself that this isn't going to happen and sell the
>tail kit.
>
>Replies directly to this email _lr_@yahoo.com are welcome.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Larry Rachman
>ISP
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Battery Cable Routing |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
Unless one runs the battery cable in the tunnel, it looks like there is no
place to hide it between the front spar and the firewall. Does anyone have a
picture of what their method of attaching the cable in this area looks like?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
40-422
Message 6
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| Subject: | Build times - time to get restarted? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
What John fails to mention is he has a flying RV-8 that consumes some of his time
as well ;)
I have reached some sort of burnout several times. Deems and I share the same dislike
for the summer heat, which will set you back becasue it robs your attention
to detail. Work, family demands, busted fingers all play a part. John is
100% right when he say if it starts to feel like a job, take a break. I'm in no
hurry, I'm 40185 slow build. I'm doing a bunch of wiring which I totally enjoy
but sitting in the background is that darn glass top, which until I stop swaeting
out a gallon of water a day it will sit there waiting for nice cool fall
temps. I have always held to the do SOMETHING each day theory, be it cleaning
up, reading plans, deburring parts from way ahead in the build, (which is really
nice when you come to that part and find it ready to drill, dimple and install)
The other RV forums have all addressed this issue so you far from being
alone. To a point I think we all have flet this was too much to take on at some
point then you work past it. I've been at it since Feb 2004 and won't even
speculate as to my completion date. Sam Buchannon said at some point your going
to run outta parts, then it's time to fly.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Battery Cable Routing |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Speaking of diodes for contactors, I know I read about protecting trim relays from
the same, besides a solid state solution, I've already built the relay terminal
boards, does anyone have a recommendation for diode rectifiers for trim
relays? 1 amp, 50 v (can you oversize the amps?) is my guess and my plan unless
anyone has different ideas. I know I could have purchased the trim relay decks
from a vendor but these were fun to assemble and I saved $3.00. :)
I've heard that you don't need them as well but that goes against all my info I
have found to date
Rick S.
40185
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Build times - time to get restarted? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim & Julie Wade" <jwadejr@hughes.net>
I work heat better that cold!!!! Big hanger can't heat well. I have a big water
fan!!!! You know with the water trickling down the back grates. Drops the temp
15 degrees up to 30 feet in front of it. I have worked all summer in 100+ temps
with no problem!!!!
Back to the kit!! How do you eat an elephant?????
One bite at a time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I to went through depressed times. Everyone will!!!!!
Jim
383
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56714#56714
Message 9
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| Subject: | Battery Cable Routing |
Albert,
Typical routing from the tailcone is under the baggage floor panels (and
along the right side baggage wall behind the panel) and then along the
side walls in the cabin area. The side walls have interior panels that
screw on all the way to the F-1024 bulkheads. The instrument panel is
actually aft of the F-1002 bulkheads so there's only a short span where
they are exposed. If you purchase the electrical kit from Van's they
provide you with a panel that screws onto the longeron in this area to
cover wiring.
For the tunnel area the wiring kit shows the wiring for the fuel flow
and pump running aft and then over to the side using routing similar to
the brake and fuel lines. Flap motor wiring runs aft to the flap torque
tube area and then to the side.
Alternatively, Flightline Interiors' kit provides finished side panels
all the way to the F-1002 bulkheads.
http://my.execpc.com/~erdmannb/rv10.html
This may be true of other providers as well, but wouldn't be difficult
to make.
I've attached a couple of manual pages for reference in case there's a
specific area in question.
Bob #40105
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert
Gardner
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Battery Cable Routing
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud@adelphia.net>
Unless one runs the battery cable in the tunnel, it looks like there is
no
place to hide it between the front spar and the firewall. Does anyone
have a
picture of what their method of attaching the cable in this area looks
like?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
40-422
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Build times - time to get restarted? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
I have had numerous interruptions of weeks at a time due to work related
travel. Frequently it's hard to get restarted but picking a specific
task to work makes getting your arms around it a lot easier. I have
done my plane using slow build versions of the kits. I was too
optimistic for timing on both the wing and fuselage kits - they sat
around for weeks/months before I completed the preceding kit and was
ready to move on.
One thing that is HUGE motivation is a ride in a friends' RV - check out
your local EAA chapter and I'm sure you'll find somebody willing to take
you up.
Bob #40105
Back to engine baffling after a few week break for OSH and work
travel...
Message 11
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| Subject: | OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
Soliciting a few opinions from list members...
I recently completed my BFR after a long time off flying. I had the
fortunate opportunity to get a G1000 signoff (school requires 3 hours
training to rent a G1000 equipped plane) at the same time. I really
enjoyed flying behind the G1000 in a 2006 air conditioned 172SP. :) It
was my first EFIS experience.
While I am in buildus interuptus mode I am planning on getting my IFR
ticket. My question to the list is should I go through this with the
G1000 or the standard six-pack? The flight sim which the school uses
has the standard six-pack. And the King DVDs are geared around that
also. But, I can also get the King G1000 DVDs to fill in the gaps.
Has anyone on the list gone through their IFR training with a G1000 that
can offer up advice? How does the checkride differ as far as the
Examiner is concerned? Is it easier to just complete the IFR training
with the six-pack, and then go through the procedures afterward with the
G1000?
One of the reasons I'd like to do it via the G1000 is because the G1000
planes available for rental have air conditioning also, which is a nice
feature here in Phoenix, AZ. :)
One thing that I realize is that I'm fortunate to have a G1000 plane
available as I'm planning on having a glass panel in my -10. I imagine
that time behind a G1000 will help me either way if I go with a Chelton
for example.
Thanks,
-Sean #40303 (plane in IL, me in AZ)
Message 12
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| Subject: | not enough parts cabin top |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Has anyone else found they are short on CS4-4 pops for putting top on??
Chris 388
do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Jacks (Was Serious Front Axle...) |
Bob,
At the hangar, I use a scissors jack. It compresses to less than 4
inches and will slip under the nose gear. I made a couple split pipe
"jack heads" with a pin on the bottom for the main gear. Drilled a hole
in the plate on top of the scissors jack for the jack head pin. This is
simple and works great when pants and main fairings are removed. The
scissors jack weights a lot so looking for a lighter weight solution to
carry in the plane. What have others done?
Roger
40291
----- Original Message -----
From: bcondrey<mailto:bob.condrey@baesystems.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:43 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Serious Front Axle Maintenance Issue on the
RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bcondrey"
<bob.condrey@baesystems.com<mailto:bob.condrey@baesystems.com>>
I just talked w/Tom at Van's and his suggestion is to check spacing
with a feeler gauge and adjust the axle accordingly. He also said that
behavior would be possibly be very different with the wheel off the
ground than with full weight on it.
I guess I'll be measuring and adjusting the front axle length
tonight...
On related note - what's the best way to jack up the plane for nose
wheel work? I've been using my engine hoist but assume there's another
option for "in the field" work.
Bob
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56657#56657<http://forums.m
atronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=56657#56657>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List<http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 14
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| Subject: | not enough parts cabin top |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
I had extra....still have some left. I got the top on, but still have a few
more parts to assemble.
Rene' Felker
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin top
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Has anyone else found they are short on CS4-4 pops for putting top on??
Chris 388
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: not enough parts cabin top |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Thanks Rene I got 420 in the bag (but did not count them)could you look how
may you got?
Chris
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin top
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
>
> I had extra....still have some left. I got the top on, but still have a
> few
> more parts to assemble.
>
> Rene' Felker
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
> Darcy
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:48 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin top
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy"
> <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
>
> Has anyone else found they are short on CS4-4 pops for putting top on??
>
> Chris 388
>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Jacks (Was Serious Front Axle...) |
Roger,
Sounds like a good idea, any chance of some pictures to solidify what's
in my mind's eye?
Thanks,
Marcus
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Standley
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Jacks (Was Serious Front Axle...)
Bob,
At the hangar, I use a scissors jack. It compresses to less than 4 inches
and will slip under the nose gear. I made a couple split pipe "jack heads"
with a pin on the bottom for the main gear. Drilled a hole in the plate on
top of the scissors jack for the jack head pin. This is simple and works
great when pants and main fairings are removed. The scissors jack weights a
lot so looking for a lighter weight solution to carry in the plane. What
have others done?
Roger
40291
Message 17
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| Subject: | not enough parts cabin top |
I have been slow build all the way. I have found that the kit does not
include anywhere near enough pop rivets - particularly LP4-3 and CS4-4.
I bought an extra 250 of each - they will always come in handy.
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 8:14 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin top
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
I had extra....still have some left. I got the top on, but still have a
few
more parts to assemble.
Rene' Felker
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin top
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy"
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Has anyone else found they are short on CS4-4 pops for putting top on??
Chris 388
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: not enough parts cabin top |
RE: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin topThanks Ron we need Vans to put
the correct numbers in the bags. Builders are all over the world so it
can cost huge amounts to (just buy) a few extra bits etc.Also it can
take up to 2 weeks to get stuff sent out to Aus. So many bags are wrong
so it would be great to get it sorted.
I have got them to alter 3 bags so far to help future builders.
kind regards Chris 388
----- Original Message -----
From: McGANN, Ron
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:55 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin top
I have been slow build all the way. I have found that the kit does
not include anywhere near enough pop rivets - particularly LP4-3 and
CS4-4. I bought an extra 250 of each - they will always come in handy.
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 8:14 AM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin top
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
I had extra....still have some left. I got the top on, but still have
a few
more parts to assemble.
Rene' Felker
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris ,
Susie
Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:48 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: not enough parts cabin top
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy"
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
Has anyone else found they are short on CS4-4 pops for putting top
on??
Chris 388
do not archive
browse Subscriptions page, Chat, FAQ, s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Web Forums! T>
Wiki!
support!
ontribution
Message 19
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| Subject: | Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only? |
I would love to build an RV-10 but the recent post of insurance costing
approx. $3800 a year for full coverage gave me reason to sit back and
pause..... I'm currently paying approx. $1400 p/year for the RV-7A
with full coverage.
Like most, I am sure I would only fly with more than one-passenger
rarely (if at all...). I like the RV-10 for it's cross-country
capability and larger cabin. Therefore, for my type of flying (95%
cross-country solo and/or maybe one passenger...), can an RV-10 be
insured for two seats only? If so, what kind of rates have been quoted
with a $100-125K hull value and the normal $1 million dollar liability
policy?
My girlfriend would like to be able to take three suitcases full of
shoes so we really don't have space for passengers! :-)
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A N174JL 220 hrs.
www.jacklockamy.com
jacklockamy@verizon.net
do not archive
Message 20
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| Subject: | OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Sean
I had the same questions when I started to get my IFR cert. I talked
long and hard with several instructors, and while they all told me the
same thing, the glass panel, GPS moving map, EFIS, and HITS that I will
have in the RV10 will make it as easy as possible to fly IFR, but I
still need to be able to fly the needles, in case I am in someone else's
plane, or I chose to sell the 10 and do something else. They told me it
is very easy to transition from standard gauges to glass, but very
difficult to transition from glass back to standard, if you never
learned it that way.
So long story short, I do not think glass or GPS is going away, I made
the decision to learn the harder way and transition to glass when the 10
was done. Besides, I bought a cheap Cherokee 140 to get my ticket in and
will sell it to get my engine when I am done. Rather than renting a high
end plane, buy a cheap, traditional IFR trainer, get your ticket, sell
it, and with the money you save you can put air in the 10.
Just my .02
Dan
RV10E (N289DT)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sean Stephens
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:25 PM
Subject: RV10-List: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
Soliciting a few opinions from list members...
I recently completed my BFR after a long time off flying. I had the
fortunate opportunity to get a G1000 signoff (school requires 3 hours
training to rent a G1000 equipped plane) at the same time. I really
enjoyed flying behind the G1000 in a 2006 air conditioned 172SP. :) It
was my first EFIS experience.
While I am in buildus interuptus mode I am planning on getting my IFR
ticket. My question to the list is should I go through this with the
G1000 or the standard six-pack? The flight sim which the school uses
has the standard six-pack. And the King DVDs are geared around that
also. But, I can also get the King G1000 DVDs to fill in the gaps.
Has anyone on the list gone through their IFR training with a G1000 that
can offer up advice? How does the checkride differ as far as the
Examiner is concerned? Is it easier to just complete the IFR training
with the six-pack, and then go through the procedures afterward with the
G1000?
One of the reasons I'd like to do it via the G1000 is because the G1000
planes available for rental have air conditioning also, which is a nice
feature here in Phoenix, AZ. :)
One thing that I realize is that I'm fortunate to have a G1000 plane
available as I'm planning on having a glass panel in my -10. I imagine
that time behind a G1000 will help me either way if I go with a Chelton
for example.
Thanks,
-Sean #40303 (plane in IL, me in AZ)
Message 21
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| Subject: | Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only? |
I would love to build an RV-10 but the recent post of insurance costing
approx. $3800 a year for full coverage gave me reason to sit back and
pause..... I'm currently paying approx. $1400 p/year for the RV-7A with
full coverage.
Like most, I am sure I would only fly with more than one-passenger rarely
(if at all...). I like the RV-10 for it's cross-country capability and
larger cabin. Therefore, for my type of flying (95% cross-country solo
and/or maybe one passenger...), can an RV-10 be insured for two seats only?
If so, what kind of rates have been quoted with a $100-125K hull value and
the normal $1 million dollar liability policy?
My girlfriend would like to be able to take three suitcases full of shoes so
we really don't have space for passengers! :-)
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A N174JL 220 hrs.
www.jacklockamy.com
jacklockamy@verizon.net
Message 22
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| Subject: | OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
Ditch the six-pack. Go glass.
When I learned to drive, I did it in a car - I didn't bother to learn on
a horse . . .
TDT
40025
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Sean Stephens
Sent: Wed 8/23/2006 5:24 PM
Subject: RV10-List: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
Soliciting a few opinions from list members...
I recently completed my BFR after a long time off flying. I had the
fortunate opportunity to get a G1000 signoff (school requires 3 hours
training to rent a G1000 equipped plane) at the same time. I really
enjoyed flying behind the G1000 in a 2006 air conditioned 172SP. :) It
was my first EFIS experience.
While I am in buildus interuptus mode I am planning on getting my IFR
ticket. My question to the list is should I go through this with the
G1000 or the standard six-pack? The flight sim which the school uses
has the standard six-pack. And the King DVDs are geared around that
also. But, I can also get the King G1000 DVDs to fill in the gaps.
Has anyone on the list gone through their IFR training with a G1000 that
can offer up advice? How does the checkride differ as far as the
Examiner is concerned? Is it easier to just complete the IFR training
with the six-pack, and then go through the procedures afterward with the
G1000?
One of the reasons I'd like to do it via the G1000 is because the G1000
planes available for rental have air conditioning also, which is a nice
feature here in Phoenix, AZ. :)
One thing that I realize is that I'm fortunate to have a G1000 plane
available as I'm planning on having a glass panel in my -10. I imagine
that time behind a G1000 will help me either way if I go with a Chelton
for example.
Thanks,
-Sean #40303 (plane in IL, me in AZ)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only? |
I pay $2400 for the kind of coverage you are looking for and it is
for four soles. Of course at the end, your experience will determine
your rate. Talk to Falcon Insurance.
Do not archive.
On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:05 PM, JACK LOCKAMY wrote:
> I would love to build an RV-10 but the recent post of insurance
> costing approx. $3800 a year for full coverage gave me reason to
> sit back and pause..... I'm currently paying approx. $1400 p/year
> for the RV-7A with full coverage.
>
> Like most, I am sure I would only fly with more than one-passenger
> rarely (if at all...). I like the RV-10 for it's cross-country
> capability and larger cabin. Therefore, for my type of flying (95%
> cross-country solo and/or maybe one passenger...), can an RV-10 be
> insured for two seats only? If so, what kind of rates have been
> quoted with a $100-125K hull value and the normal $1 million dollar
> liability policy?
>
> My girlfriend would like to be able to take three suitcases full of
> shoes so we really don't have space for passengers! :-)
>
> Jack Lockamy
> Camarillo, CA
> RV-7A N174JL 220 hrs.
> www.jacklockamy.com
> jacklockamy@verizon.net
>
> do not archive
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only? |
Sounds like a Catch-22. The insurance company is probably not going to
give you 2-seater insurance, unless you register the airplane with the
FAA as having 2 seats. And then if you ever did try using seats 3 and
4, you'd be violating the FARs, probably, and the insurance company
would have a good reason to deny any claims.
TDT
40025
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Wed 8/23/2006 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Can and RV-10 be insured for two-seats only?
I pay $2400 for the kind of coverage you are looking for and it is
for four soles. Of course at the end, your experience will determine
your rate. Talk to Falcon Insurance.
Do not archive.
On Aug 23, 2006, at 9:05 PM, JACK LOCKAMY wrote:
> I would love to build an RV-10 but the recent post of insurance
> costing approx. $3800 a year for full coverage gave me reason to
> sit back and pause..... I'm currently paying approx. $1400 p/year
> for the RV-7A with full coverage.
>
> Like most, I am sure I would only fly with more than one-passenger
> rarely (if at all...). I like the RV-10 for it's cross-country
> capability and larger cabin. Therefore, for my type of flying (95%
> cross-country solo and/or maybe one passenger...), can an RV-10 be
> insured for two seats only? If so, what kind of rates have been
> quoted with a $100-125K hull value and the normal $1 million dollar
> liability policy?
>
> My girlfriend would like to be able to take three suitcases full of
> shoes so we really don't have space for passengers! :-)
>
> Jack Lockamy
> Camarillo, CA
> RV-7A N174JL 220 hrs.
> www.jacklockamy.com
> jacklockamy@verizon.net
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
=========
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Tough question. I'd personally train in the six-pack and save
the cash. You're going to have to re-learn your own panel
anyway, so what will be valuable is to save some cash and
after you're done with your flyoff, hire a CFII for 5 or 10
hours to fly with you and shoot approaches using your own
gear. But, I think you'd have more FUN flying the glass.
For what it's worth, the skills you learn using the old
stuff can give you some very useful background and may help
you to truly *understand* Instrument flying a bit better at
a core level...which will make flying glass just plain easy
later.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Sean Stephens wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
>
> Soliciting a few opinions from list members...
>
> I recently completed my BFR after a long time off flying. I had the
> fortunate opportunity to get a G1000 signoff (school requires 3 hours
> training to rent a G1000 equipped plane) at the same time. I really
> enjoyed flying behind the G1000 in a 2006 air conditioned 172SP. :) It
> was my first EFIS experience.
>
> While I am in buildus interuptus mode I am planning on getting my IFR
> ticket. My question to the list is should I go through this with the
> G1000 or the standard six-pack? The flight sim which the school uses
> has the standard six-pack. And the King DVDs are geared around that
> also. But, I can also get the King G1000 DVDs to fill in the gaps.
>
> Has anyone on the list gone through their IFR training with a G1000 that
> can offer up advice? How does the checkride differ as far as the
> Examiner is concerned? Is it easier to just complete the IFR training
> with the six-pack, and then go through the procedures afterward with the
> G1000?
>
> One of the reasons I'd like to do it via the G1000 is because the G1000
> planes available for rental have air conditioning also, which is a nice
> feature here in Phoenix, AZ. :)
>
> One thing that I realize is that I'm fortunate to have a G1000 plane
> available as I'm planning on having a glass panel in my -10. I imagine
> that time behind a G1000 will help me either way if I go with a Chelton
> for example.
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Sean #40303 (plane in IL, me in AZ)
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
I thought about the price difference, but the difference between renting
a good ole 172S six-pack and a 2006 172SP G1000 w/ac is $19/hour. :)
So, price does not come into play for me all that much.
-Sean
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Tough question. I'd personally train in the six-pack and save
> the cash. You're going to have to re-learn your own panel
> anyway, so what will be valuable is to save some cash and
> after you're done with your flyoff, hire a CFII for 5 or 10
> hours to fly with you and shoot approaches using your own
> gear. But, I think you'd have more FUN flying the glass.
> For what it's worth, the skills you learn using the old
> stuff can give you some very useful background and may help
> you to truly *understand* Instrument flying a bit better at
> a core level...which will make flying glass just plain easy
> later.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Sean Stephens wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
>>
>> Soliciting a few opinions from list members...
>>
>> I recently completed my BFR after a long time off flying. I had the
>> fortunate opportunity to get a G1000 signoff (school requires 3 hours
>> training to rent a G1000 equipped plane) at the same time. I really
>> enjoyed flying behind the G1000 in a 2006 air conditioned 172SP. :)
>> It was my first EFIS experience.
>>
>> While I am in buildus interuptus mode I am planning on getting my IFR
>> ticket. My question to the list is should I go through this with the
>> G1000 or the standard six-pack? The flight sim which the school uses
>> has the standard six-pack. And the King DVDs are geared around that
>> also. But, I can also get the King G1000 DVDs to fill in the gaps.
>>
>> Has anyone on the list gone through their IFR training with a G1000
>> that can offer up advice? How does the checkride differ as far as
>> the Examiner is concerned? Is it easier to just complete the IFR
>> training with the six-pack, and then go through the procedures
>> afterward with the G1000?
>>
>> One of the reasons I'd like to do it via the G1000 is because the
>> G1000 planes available for rental have air conditioning also, which
>> is a nice feature here in Phoenix, AZ. :)
>>
>> One thing that I realize is that I'm fortunate to have a G1000 plane
>> available as I'm planning on having a glass panel in my -10. I
>> imagine that time behind a G1000 will help me either way if I go with
>> a Chelton for example.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Sean #40303 (plane in IL, me in AZ)
>>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Sure, if you want to be incompetent at the partial panel when the glass
panel goes black, which is 99.94% guaranteed to happen on a BFR, IPC, if
not in real life. Learn with the traditional instruments, it gives you a
far more thorough background. Besides, ATC isn't going to let you fly
anything but airways as soon as you get east of the Miss. or west of the
Sierras. GPS will be a very slow transition, given that the Garmin GPS
100 came on the market 15 years ago, and there are still less than 5
GPSs on the market that you can legally fly without traditional nav
backup in the plane. How are you going to understand overlay approaches
if you don't know how to fly the underlying approach?
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> Ditch the six-pack. Go glass.
>
> When I learned to drive, I did it in a car - I didn't bother to learn on a horse
. . .
>
> TDT
> 40025
> do not archive
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
a.) Training on a G1000 or Avidyne Entegra would include "partial panel"
work using the conventional "steam gauge" backup instruments.
b.) Using a G1000 or Avidyne Entegra, etc, does not mean radio
navigation is abandoned for GPS. Both systems feature VOR, LOC, and ILS
capability, in addition to RNAV (GPS).
c.) In a parallel vein, training or lots of practice in effectively
using your autopilot of choice in conjunction with whatever system of
six-pack/EFIS/GPS/Nav you have is also important . . .
d). Like it or not, there are folks entering the training stream that
are never going to fly without glass (except maybe VFR).
TDT
40025
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Kelly McMullen
Sent: Wed 8/23/2006 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Sure, if you want to be incompetent at the partial panel when the glass
panel goes black, which is 99.94% guaranteed to happen on a BFR, IPC, if
not in real life. Learn with the traditional instruments, it gives you a
far more thorough background. Besides, ATC isn't going to let you fly
anything but airways as soon as you get east of the Miss. or west of the
Sierras. GPS will be a very slow transition, given that the Garmin GPS
100 came on the market 15 years ago, and there are still less than 5
GPSs on the market that you can legally fly without traditional nav
backup in the plane. How are you going to understand overlay approaches
if you don't know how to fly the underlying approach?
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> Ditch the six-pack. Go glass.
>
> When I learned to drive, I did it in a car - I didn't bother to learn
on a horse . . .
>
> TDT
> 40025
> do not archive
>
>
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
The a/c might be worth that difference alone, in Arizona!
TDT
do not archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Sean Stephens
Sent: Wed 8/23/2006 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
I thought about the price difference, but the difference between renting
a good ole 172S six-pack and a 2006 172SP G1000 w/ac is $19/hour. :)
So, price does not come into play for me all that much.
-Sean
Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Tough question. I'd personally train in the six-pack and save
> the cash. You're going to have to re-learn your own panel
> anyway, so what will be valuable is to save some cash and
> after you're done with your flyoff, hire a CFII for 5 or 10
> hours to fly with you and shoot approaches using your own
> gear. But, I think you'd have more FUN flying the glass.
> For what it's worth, the skills you learn using the old
> stuff can give you some very useful background and may help
> you to truly *understand* Instrument flying a bit better at
> a core level...which will make flying glass just plain easy
> later.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Sean Stephens wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens
<sean@stephensville.com>
>>
>> Soliciting a few opinions from list members...
>>
>> I recently completed my BFR after a long time off flying. I had the
>> fortunate opportunity to get a G1000 signoff (school requires 3 hours
>> training to rent a G1000 equipped plane) at the same time. I really
>> enjoyed flying behind the G1000 in a 2006 air conditioned 172SP. :)
>> It was my first EFIS experience.
>>
>> While I am in buildus interuptus mode I am planning on getting my IFR
>> ticket. My question to the list is should I go through this with the
>> G1000 or the standard six-pack? The flight sim which the school uses
>> has the standard six-pack. And the King DVDs are geared around that
>> also. But, I can also get the King G1000 DVDs to fill in the gaps.
>>
>> Has anyone on the list gone through their IFR training with a G1000
>> that can offer up advice? How does the checkride differ as far as
>> the Examiner is concerned? Is it easier to just complete the IFR
>> training with the six-pack, and then go through the procedures
>> afterward with the G1000?
>>
>> One of the reasons I'd like to do it via the G1000 is because the
>> G1000 planes available for rental have air conditioning also, which
>> is a nice feature here in Phoenix, AZ. :)
>>
>> One thing that I realize is that I'm fortunate to have a G1000 plane
>> available as I'm planning on having a glass panel in my -10. I
>> imagine that time behind a G1000 will help me either way if I go with
>> a Chelton for example.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -Sean #40303 (plane in IL, me in AZ)
>>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
It's not just about GPS and GPS approaches. That was the least of my
worries. You still fly all the normal approaches the same way with an
EFIS like the G1000 that you do with a six-pack. You're just using
different "tools" to accomplish the same flightpath. You still have to
know how to tune the OBS and fly the course for example. If it's on the
G1000 or via the NAV and indicator, that's just a matter of knowing the
"tool" to get the job done.
And that is the jist of my question. You still have to learn all the
procedures regardless of the tool. If COST was not a factor (and it's a
very small factor for me), which "tool" would you rather train on?
-Sean
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
>
> Sure, if you want to be incompetent at the partial panel when the
> glass panel goes black, which is 99.94% guaranteed to happen on a BFR,
> IPC, if not in real life. Learn with the traditional instruments, it
> gives you a far more thorough background. Besides, ATC isn't going to
> let you fly anything but airways as soon as you get east of the Miss.
> or west of the Sierras. GPS will be a very slow transition, given that
> the Garmin GPS 100 came on the market 15 years ago, and there are
> still less than 5 GPSs on the market that you can legally fly without
> traditional nav backup in the plane. How are you going to understand
> overlay approaches if you don't know how to fly the underlying approach?
>
>
> Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>> Ditch the six-pack. Go glass.
>>
>> When I learned to drive, I did it in a car - I didn't bother to learn
>> on a horse . . .
>>
>> TDT
>> 40025
>> do not archive
>>
>>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
> a.) Training on a G1000 or Avidyne Entegra would include "partial panel" work
using the conventional "steam gauge" backup instruments.
Yep, but not likely to the same level of competence, because it will be
using a totally different set of instruments than what they fly every
day, requiring much bigger adjustment.
> b.) Using a G1000 or Avidyne Entegra, etc, does not mean radio navigation is
abandoned for GPS. Both systems feature VOR, LOC, and ILS capability, in addition
to RNAV (GPS).
Yes, but no NDB. ;-) Also, minimal use of unaided radio navigation...how
well do they track without a moving map?
> c.) In a parallel vein, training or lots of practice in effectively using your
autopilot of choice in conjunction with whatever system of six-pack/EFIS/GPS/Nav
you have is also important . . .
Traditional training planes are not too likely to have working
autopilots, especially the Cessnas of the late '70s. Better to learn to
handle it all hand flying before you let Otto do it all.
> d). Like it or not, there are folks entering the training stream that are never
going to fly without glass (except maybe VFR).
Also true, and they will have some hard lessons before the kinks are
ironed out. Has happened with every advance in technology.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: GM LS2 Engine - opinions |
I agree in concept that the LS2 engine might make a good airplane engine,
but in talking to someone who did some extensive research on this topic, when
fitted with the PSRU, the weight and balance become unworkable on the RV-10.
I haven't seen the numbers, though.
If you find a way to make this conversion work, please let us know!
Steve Weinstock
40230
In a message dated 8/22/2006 9:16:26 P.M. Central Standard Time,
jdalton77@comcast.net writes:
I'm a long way from engine selection, but I've been hearing a lot of good
commentary on the GM LS2 engine (used in the 2005 Corvette). The ones I have
seen on aircraft have been derated to a maximum of 4500 RPM (redline is over
6500 RPM) limiting the HP to 300HP.
The engine new is less than $6k. Of course, all the mods will add up to
closer to $20k altogether.
Opinions?
Message 33
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| Subject: | Manifold pressure hole |
I went to drill the hole in the firewall for the manifold pressure fitti
ng............it says to drill a 3/8" hole. The fitting does NOT go thr
ough the hole because it is too small. What am I not doing right? It a
ppears to me the hole needs to be drilled to 7/16" for the fitting to go
through. Is it a typo in the manual?
Thanks,
DEAN
40449
________________________________________________________________________
<html><P>I went to drill the hole in the firewall for the manifold press
ure fitting............it says to drill a 3/8" hole. The fitting d
oes NOT go through the hole because it is too small. What am I not
doing right? It appears to me the hole needs to be drilled to 7/1
6" for the fitting to go through. Is it a typo in the manual?</P>
<P>Thanks,</P>
<P>DEAN</P>
<P>40449</P>
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Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: OT: IFR Training With Six-Pack or G1000? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
I'd still train with the traditional setup. It actually is much easier
to fly, knobs and settings are far easier, but you have to learn to
mentally picture where you are, instead of seeing it on a moving map. A
very valuable skill. When you don't have the EFIS, do you still have an
OBS and a VOR/ILS you can tune, when the circuit breaker for that EFIS
breaks? Can you fly it and the backup steam gauges effectively, when 75%
of your training is with the EFIS. IMHO, you would be far better off
saving the 8 grand, learning the traditional stuff, then, as Tim
suggested, getting some dual in your RV10 with what avionics you
install, to add those skills.
For example, I recently heard of a pilot trained on 430/530 equipment
who received a present position direct to a fix, then got off course,
couldn't understand why he shouldn't just push direct-direct again to
change his course line. If he had a better understanding of the
limitations of the ATC system and ground based nav, he would have
understood the problem.
Sean Stephens wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
>
> It's not just about GPS and GPS approaches. That was the least of my
> worries. You still fly all the normal approaches the same way with an
> EFIS like the G1000 that you do with a six-pack. You're just using
> different "tools" to accomplish the same flightpath. You still have to
> know how to tune the OBS and fly the course for example. If it's on the
> G1000 or via the NAV and indicator, that's just a matter of knowing the
> "tool" to get the job done.
>
> And that is the jist of my question. You still have to learn all the
> procedures regardless of the tool. If COST was not a factor (and it's a
> very small factor for me), which "tool" would you rather train on?
>
> -Sean
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym@aviating.com>
>>
>> Sure, if you want to be incompetent at the partial panel when the
>> glass panel goes black, which is 99.94% guaranteed to happen on a BFR,
>> IPC, if not in real life. Learn with the traditional instruments, it
>> gives you a far more thorough background. Besides, ATC isn't going to
>> let you fly anything but airways as soon as you get east of the Miss.
>> or west of the Sierras. GPS will be a very slow transition, given that
>> the Garmin GPS 100 came on the market 15 years ago, and there are
>> still less than 5 GPSs on the market that you can legally fly without
>> traditional nav backup in the plane. How are you going to understand
>> overlay approaches if you don't know how to fly the underlying approach?
>>
>>
>> Tim Dawson-Townsend wrote:
>>> Ditch the six-pack. Go glass.
>>>
>>> When I learned to drive, I did it in a car - I didn't bother to learn
>>> on a horse . . .
>>>
>>> TDT
>>> 40025
>>> do not archive
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
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