Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:13 AM - Re: C Type Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer (John Testement)
2. 06:42 AM - Re: Insurance Rates - A fun little rant of mine (Doerr, Ray R [NTK])
3. 11:34 AM - SportAir RV Workshop Nov 18/19 Watsonville, CA (Dave Saylor)
4. 11:51 AM - Lurker Flies RV-10 (Steven Roberts)
5. 01:01 PM - Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 (Ed)
6. 01:05 PM - Mike Seager Training (1M5) (John McMahon)
7. 01:12 PM - Re: Mike Seager Training (1M5) (James Hein)
8. 01:21 PM - Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 (Steven Roberts)
9. 01:37 PM - Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 (John Jessen)
10. 01:53 PM - Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 (Steven Roberts)
11. 01:53 PM - Re: Mike Seager Training (1M5) (David M.)
12. 02:17 PM - T-3A Firefly Aircraft Destroyed (Rhonda Bewley)
13. 02:58 PM - Re: T-3A Firefly Aircraft Destroyed (jsmcgrew@aol.com)
14. 04:28 PM - Re: Mike Seager Training (1M5) (rv10builder)
15. 04:32 PM - Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 (rv10builder)
16. 06:14 PM - Re: Mike Seager Training (1M5) (John Mcmahon)
17. 06:48 PM - 51% Rule saga continues (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
18. 07:11 PM - Re: Flying -10s in Northwest (John Dunne)
19. 07:44 PM - Re: 51% Rule saga continues (JOHN STARN)
20. 07:53 PM - Re: Flying -10s in Northwest (Tim Olson)
21. 08:22 PM - Re: 51% Rule saga continues (Pascal)
22. 09:58 PM - Re: T-3A Firefly Aircraft Destroyed (John Gonzalez)
23. 10:20 PM - Re: Flying -10s in Northwest (McGANN, Ron)
Message 1
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| Subject: | C Type Pneumatic Rivet Squeezer |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Testement" <jwt@roadmapscoaching.com>
I also highly recommend getting a foot pedal control for it. It is real
handy to clamp the squeezer to a bench and use two hands to move a larger
part of skin through it. Go mine from Cleveland and am very happy with it.
John Testement
jwt@roadmapscoaching.com
40321
Richmond, VA
Finish kit - wheel fairings, cowl prep
Do not archive
--
--
Message 2
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| Subject: | Insurance Rates - A fun little rant of mine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr@sprint.com>
Tim, that was a great letter.
You could have told them about my quote from them. It was $9,500 for $150,000
haul while others were in the $4,500 to $5,500 value for the same thing. Also
worth noting is that AIG was covering it right from the first flight while others
wouldn't until it had 10 hours.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
N519RV - 130 hrs.
IFR Pitot Static check completed yesterday. Clouds, here I come!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 1:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Insurance Rates - A fun little rant of mine
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I just got another mailing from Avemco soliciting me for insurance
from them. I've been tossing them out, but I thought that maybe
this time I'd stuff the envelope with something that hopefully
will eventually make a difference.
So here's what I put in it...I had fun writing it.
---
9/13/2006
Avemco Management,
I am writing to you to inform you that it is a waste of time to solicit
me regarding insurance for my plane, an experimental RV-10. After
receiving a couple of verbal quotes before I completed my plane, and
hearing about other RV-10 builders experiences with quotes on their
RV-10's by Avemco, you guys have quickly become the laughing stock of
the RV-10 insurance market....a market that is considerable. There are
now well over 625 RV-10 kits sold, and over 50 flying. Mine is up to
138 hours of trouble-free operation, and there are other builders with
over 300 hours. These aircraft have a typical hull value of between
$120,000 and $200,000, and should have been a great potential market for
any insurance company. They are built from kits from a highly reputable
kit company, they are generally built with fairly high building
standards, and they are a very well handling and performing plane. I
myself am very active in the RV-10 builder community and I thought it
worth while to pass this feedback to you, as perhaps once you come to
the realization that you are completely out of your minds on insurance
rates for these planes, things may eventually be changed. My initial
quote from you was for $4,900, which is well over $1500 more than I
ended up paying through alternate insurers.
So you can kindly take me off of your mailing list until such a time
that your rates reflect the current realities of today's market for
these planes. It would be very nice if we could see competitive rates,
such as $150,000 hull value for under $2,500/yr, but until then, you've
really lost this entire market.
Sincerely,
Tim Olson
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | SportAir RV Workshop Nov 18/19 Watsonville, CA |
Good News! We are scheduled for a SportAir RV workshop, November 18/19, 2006
at AirCrafters in Watsonville, CA. If you would like to attend, please go to
<http://www.sportair.org/> http://www.sportair.org/ to register, or call EAA
at 1-800-967-5746 for more information.
Please note: The Watsonville workshop is not listed on the SportAir web page
as of this morning at 10:30PDT, but I have received confirmation from EAA
that the workshop is planned and will be announced soon.
Thanks to all those who have expressed interest!
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
<outbind://5/www.AirCraftersLLC.com> www.AirCraftersLLC.com
Message 4
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| Subject: | Lurker Flies RV-10 |
I have been lurking on the Yahoo and Matronix RV-10 lists for two
years...couldn't bring myself to commit $100K+ without ever flying an
RV.
Yesterday I had the chance to fly N220RV with Mike Seager in the right
seat. I can sum up the experience with what I said to Mike at the end
of the flight...I gotta get me one of these!
I thought perhaps the thousands of other lurkers out there might
appreciate the observations of this ex-lurker.
I am a 300 hour instrument pilot, current but pretty rusty from not
flying much over the past few years. Even so, after an hour with Mike I
felt pretty comfortable in the 10, and the five landings I made were not
bad, certainly better than my average landing in a spam can. One was in
a 12 knot crosswind..."right rudder, right rudder, MORE right rudder".
Hey, I said I was rusty. Other observations:
Lots of power, even with the 210 hp in 220RV. The 260 hp must be a
rocket.
Much faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying...170 mph at
10 gph at 2500 msl was one of the datapoints I remember.
Stick vs. yoke a non-issue after five minutes. My only stick time was
in a super cub.
Stalls at all the flap and power settings were slight nose drops and
slight buffet...non-events actually. No wing drop at all.
220RV has electric pitch and roll trim on the stick coolie hat. You are
going to love electric trim.
Even though I had a few hours in aircraft with steering by differential
braking, this takes some practice to steer precisely.
Landings procedures in the RV-10 are different than spam cans, and 20
knots faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying. Not
harder, just different than you might be used to. I would not advise
flying the RV-10 for the first time without some transition training,
even if you have thousands of hours. This is my opinion with regard to
safety, not insurance requirements, your mileage may vary. Mike Seager
is an excellent source for transition training; his website is
http://www.rvshirtsnmore.com
There were several pilots taking transition training from Mike prior to
first flights. Thank you for taking the time to answer my endless
questions. Also, thanks to John McMahon for setting up the training in
Portland, TN.
This airplane is responsive yet stable, a fast load hauler yet easy to
fly. Fairly roomy inside yet economical. It is hard to believe you can
get all these features in one airplane.
Lastly, demo flights in the RV-10 cost between $100K and $150K,
depending on your engine and panel selections.
Steve Roberts
Alpharetta, GA
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ed <ed@muellerartcover.com>
Steve,
Was that 170 mph IAS (indicated air speed) or TAS (true airspeed)?
Thanks
Ed
#40525
Steven Roberts wrote:
> I have been lurking on the Yahoo and Matronix RV-10 lists for two
> years...couldn't bring myself to commit $100K+ without ever flying an RV.
>
> Yesterday I had the chance to fly N220RV with Mike Seager in the right
> seat. I can sum up the experience with what I said to Mike at the end
> of the flight...I gotta get me one of these!
>
> I thought perhaps the thousands of other lurkers out there might
> appreciate the observations of this ex-lurker.
>
> I am a 300 hour instrument pilot, current but pretty rusty from not
> flying much over the past few years. Even so, after an hour with Mike
> I felt pretty comfortable in the 10, and the five landings I made were
> not bad, certainly better than my average landing in a spam can. One
> was in a 12 knot crosswind..."right rudder, right rudder, MORE right
> rudder". Hey, I said I was rusty. Other observations:
>
> Lots of power, even with the 210 hp in 220RV. The 260 hp must be a
> rocket.
>
> Much faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying...170 mph
> at 10 gph at 2500 msl was one of the datapoints I remember.
>
> Stick vs. yoke a non-issue after five minutes. My only stick time was
> in a super cub.
>
> Stalls at all the flap and power settings were slight nose drops and
> slight buffet...non-events actually. No wing drop at all.
>
> 220RV has electric pitch and roll trim on the stick coolie hat. You
> are going to love electric trim.
>
> Even though I had a few hours in aircraft with steering by
> differential braking, this takes some practice to steer precisely.
>
> Landings procedures in the RV-10 are different than spam cans, and 20
> knots faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying. Not
> harder, just different than you might be used to. I would not advise
> flying the RV-10 for the first time without some transition training,
> even if you have thousands of hours. This is my opinion with regard
> to safety, not insurance requirements, your mileage may vary. Mike
> Seager is an excellent source for transition training; his website is
> http://www.rvshirtsnmore.com
>
> There were several pilots taking transition training from Mike prior
> to first flights. Thank you for taking the time to answer my endless
> questions. Also, thanks to John McMahon for setting up the training
> in Portland, TN.
>
> This airplane is responsive yet stable, a fast load hauler yet easy to
> fly. Fairly roomy inside yet economical. It is hard to believe you
> can get all these features in one airplane.
>
> Lastly, demo flights in the RV-10 cost between $100K and $150K,
> depending on your engine and panel selections.
>
> Steve Roberts
> Alpharetta, GA
> *
>
>
> *
Message 6
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| Subject: | Mike Seager Training (1M5) |
For anyone close that needs some time in the RV-10,we have
some slots open on Sat 16th at Portland,Tn (1M5)..
Just give me a call and I will try to get you in!!!!
John McMahon
Home=615-452-8742
Cell=615-336-2340
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Mike Seager Training (1M5) |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
Let me know if/when any RV-10 training (Or for that matter, ANY RV-10)
comes to the East coast - Massachusetts, New Hampshire, etc.
-Jim 40384
do not archive
John McMahon wrote:
> *For anyone close that needs some time in the RV-10,we have*
> *some slots open on Sat 16th at Portland,Tn (1M5)..*
> *Just give me a call and I will try to get you in!!!!*
> **
> * John McMahon*
> * Home=615-452-8742*
> * Cell=615-336-2340*
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot@bellsouth.net>
Ed,
That was 170 mph indicated. I think MP/RPM was around 23-24 squared, and we
were 2500 msl. As I recall Mike said you could lean to 8-9 gph and still
get 165-170 mph at higher altitudes with the four banger. They will run the
Lycoming lean of peak but not the Continental. The 220RV airspeed indicator
is in mph.
Steve
> Steve,
>
> Was that 170 mph IAS (indicated air speed) or TAS (true airspeed)?
>
> Thanks
> Ed
> #40525
>
> Steven Roberts wrote:
>> I have been lurking on the Yahoo and Matronix RV-10 lists for two
>> years...couldn't bring myself to commit $100K+ without ever flying an RV.
>> Yesterday I had the chance to fly N220RV with Mike Seager in the right
>> seat. I can sum up the experience with what I said to Mike at the end of
>> the flight...I gotta get me one of these!
>> I thought perhaps the thousands of other lurkers out there might
>> appreciate the observations of this ex-lurker.
>> I am a 300 hour instrument pilot, current but pretty rusty from not
>> flying much over the past few years. Even so, after an hour with Mike I
>> felt pretty comfortable in the 10, and the five landings I made were not
>> bad, certainly better than my average landing in a spam can. One was in
>> a 12 knot crosswind..."right rudder, right rudder, MORE right rudder".
>> Hey, I said I was rusty. Other observations: Lots of power, even with
>> the 210 hp in 220RV. The 260 hp must be a rocket.
>> Much faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying...170 mph at
>> 10 gph at 2500 msl was one of the datapoints I remember.
>> Stick vs. yoke a non-issue after five minutes. My only stick time was
>> in a super cub.
>> Stalls at all the flap and power settings were slight nose drops and
>> slight buffet...non-events actually. No wing drop at all. 220RV has
>> electric pitch and roll trim on the stick coolie hat. You are going to
>> love electric trim.
>> Even though I had a few hours in aircraft with steering by differential
>> braking, this takes some practice to steer precisely.
>> Landings procedures in the RV-10 are different than spam cans, and 20
>> knots faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying. Not
>> harder, just different than you might be used to. I would not advise
>> flying the RV-10 for the first time without some transition training,
>> even if you have thousands of hours. This is my opinion with regard to
>> safety, not insurance requirements, your mileage may vary. Mike Seager
>> is an excellent source for transition training; his website is
>> http://www.rvshirtsnmore.com
>> There were several pilots taking transition training from Mike prior to
>> first flights. Thank you for taking the time to answer my endless
>> questions. Also, thanks to John McMahon for setting up the training in
>> Portland, TN.
>> This airplane is responsive yet stable, a fast load hauler yet easy to
>> fly. Fairly roomy inside yet economical. It is hard to believe you can
>> get all these features in one airplane.
>> Lastly, demo flights in the RV-10 cost between $100K and $150K,
>> depending on your engine and panel selections.
>> Steve Roberts Alpharetta, GA
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Lurker Flies RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
I don't think either engine is a 4-banger, but I may be wrong.
John J
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Roberts
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lurker Flies RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Steven Roberts"
--> <swrpilot@bellsouth.net>
Ed,
That was 170 mph indicated. I think MP/RPM was around 23-24 squared, and we
were 2500 msl. As I recall Mike said you could lean to 8-9 gph and still
get 165-170 mph at higher altitudes with the four banger. They will run the
Lycoming lean of peak but not the Continental. The 220RV airspeed indicator
is in mph.
Steve
> Steve,
>
> Was that 170 mph IAS (indicated air speed) or TAS (true airspeed)?
>
> Thanks
> Ed
> #40525
>
> Steven Roberts wrote:
>> I have been lurking on the Yahoo and Matronix RV-10 lists for two
>> years...couldn't bring myself to commit $100K+ without ever flying an RV.
>> Yesterday I had the chance to fly N220RV with Mike Seager in the
>> right seat. I can sum up the experience with what I said to Mike at
>> the end of the flight...I gotta get me one of these!
>> I thought perhaps the thousands of other lurkers out there might
>> appreciate the observations of this ex-lurker.
>> I am a 300 hour instrument pilot, current but pretty rusty from not
>> flying much over the past few years. Even so, after an hour with
>> Mike I felt pretty comfortable in the 10, and the five landings I
>> made were not bad, certainly better than my average landing in a spam
>> can. One was in a 12 knot crosswind..."right rudder, right rudder, MORE
right rudder".
>> Hey, I said I was rusty. Other observations: Lots of power, even
>> with the 210 hp in 220RV. The 260 hp must be a rocket.
>> Much faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying...170
>> mph at 10 gph at 2500 msl was one of the datapoints I remember.
>> Stick vs. yoke a non-issue after five minutes. My only stick time
>> was in a super cub.
>> Stalls at all the flap and power settings were slight nose drops and
>> slight buffet...non-events actually. No wing drop at all. 220RV has
>> electric pitch and roll trim on the stick coolie hat. You are going
>> to love electric trim.
>> Even though I had a few hours in aircraft with steering by
>> differential braking, this takes some practice to steer precisely.
>> Landings procedures in the RV-10 are different than spam cans, and
>> 20 knots faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying. Not
>> harder, just different than you might be used to. I would not advise
>> flying the RV-10 for the first time without some transition training,
>> even if you have thousands of hours. This is my opinion with regard
>> to safety, not insurance requirements, your mileage may vary. Mike
>> Seager is an excellent source for transition training; his website is
>> http://www.rvshirtsnmore.com There were several pilots taking
>> transition training from Mike prior to first flights. Thank you for
>> taking the time to answer my endless questions. Also, thanks to John
>> McMahon for setting up the training in Portland, TN.
>> This airplane is responsive yet stable, a fast load hauler yet easy
>> to fly. Fairly roomy inside yet economical. It is hard to believe
>> you can get all these features in one airplane.
>> Lastly, demo flights in the RV-10 cost between $100K and $150K,
>> depending on your engine and panel selections.
>> Steve Roberts Alpharetta, GA
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Steven Roberts" <swrpilot@bellsouth.net>
John,
Your right, I had it mixed up with the Lycoming. The Lycoming IO-360 is 4
cylinders, the Continental IO-360 is 6 cylinders.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Lurker Flies RV-10
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
> I don't think either engine is a 4-banger, but I may be wrong.
>
> John J
>
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Roberts
> Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 1:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lurker Flies RV-10
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Steven Roberts"
> --> <swrpilot@bellsouth.net>
>
> Ed,
>
> That was 170 mph indicated. I think MP/RPM was around 23-24 squared, and
> we
> were 2500 msl. As I recall Mike said you could lean to 8-9 gph and still
> get 165-170 mph at higher altitudes with the four banger. They will run
> the
> Lycoming lean of peak but not the Continental. The 220RV airspeed
> indicator
> is in mph.
>
> Steve
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> Was that 170 mph IAS (indicated air speed) or TAS (true airspeed)?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Ed
>> #40525
>>
>> Steven Roberts wrote:
>>> I have been lurking on the Yahoo and Matronix RV-10 lists for two
>>> years...couldn't bring myself to commit $100K+ without ever flying an
>>> RV.
>>> Yesterday I had the chance to fly N220RV with Mike Seager in the
>>> right seat. I can sum up the experience with what I said to Mike at
>>> the end of the flight...I gotta get me one of these!
>>> I thought perhaps the thousands of other lurkers out there might
>>> appreciate the observations of this ex-lurker.
>>> I am a 300 hour instrument pilot, current but pretty rusty from not
>>> flying much over the past few years. Even so, after an hour with
>>> Mike I felt pretty comfortable in the 10, and the five landings I
>>> made were not bad, certainly better than my average landing in a spam
>>> can. One was in a 12 knot crosswind..."right rudder, right rudder, MORE
> right rudder".
>>> Hey, I said I was rusty. Other observations: Lots of power, even
>>> with the 210 hp in 220RV. The 260 hp must be a rocket.
>>> Much faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying...170
>>> mph at 10 gph at 2500 msl was one of the datapoints I remember.
>>> Stick vs. yoke a non-issue after five minutes. My only stick time
>>> was in a super cub.
>>> Stalls at all the flap and power settings were slight nose drops and
>>> slight buffet...non-events actually. No wing drop at all. 220RV has
>>> electric pitch and roll trim on the stick coolie hat. You are going
>>> to love electric trim.
>>> Even though I had a few hours in aircraft with steering by
>>> differential braking, this takes some practice to steer precisely.
>>> Landings procedures in the RV-10 are different than spam cans, and
>>> 20 knots faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying. Not
>>> harder, just different than you might be used to. I would not advise
>>> flying the RV-10 for the first time without some transition training,
>>> even if you have thousands of hours. This is my opinion with regard
>>> to safety, not insurance requirements, your mileage may vary. Mike
>>> Seager is an excellent source for transition training; his website is
>>> http://www.rvshirtsnmore.com There were several pilots taking
>>> transition training from Mike prior to first flights. Thank you for
>>> taking the time to answer my endless questions. Also, thanks to John
>>> McMahon for setting up the training in Portland, TN.
>>> This airplane is responsive yet stable, a fast load hauler yet easy
>>> to fly. Fairly roomy inside yet economical. It is hard to believe
>>> you can get all these features in one airplane.
>>> Lastly, demo flights in the RV-10 cost between $100K and $150K,
>>> depending on your engine and panel selections.
>>> Steve Roberts Alpharetta, GA
>>> *
>>>
>>>
>>> *
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Mike Seager Training (1M5) |
How much $?
David M.
John McMahon wrote:
> For anyone close that needs some time in the RV-10,we have
> some slots open on Sat 16th at Portland,Tn (1M5)..
> Just give me a call and I will try to get you in!!!!
>
> John McMahon
> Home=615-452-8742
> Cell=615-336-2340
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | T-3A Firefly Aircraft Destroyed |
Sorry for the cross postings, but I felt this issue was worthwhile. See
below an email sent to several news agencies. In addition, a letter is
in the draft stages to Sen. Jim Inhofe, who is a member of the Senate
Arms Committee and a GA advocate. I encourage you to do the same.
"Please review the attached stories regarding the Air Force's disposal
of 110 T-3A Firefly airplanes that cost the American taxpayers
$33,000,000. These airplanes were grounded after three fatal accidents.
It was determined that the airplanes had fuel delivery problems.
http://www.txaa.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=1554
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123026857
Generally when aircraft are destroyed, they are disassembled and the
good components are then sold through auction or salvage. The Air
Force, however, has completely destroyed all components, including new
engines and propellers still in the crates from the factory.
My company is an engine overhaul facility which supports the general
aviation market. The engines associated with these aircraft are used in
a multitude of certified and experimental aircraft with very reliable
results and are highly sought after. In fact, we had already begun
inquiries with the GSA on how to bid on these components when these
stories came across our desk.
What a waste of the taxpayer's money!! I feel confident that even those
individuals who don't have a passion for flight would find this type of
activity deplorable. I hope you will give this story your
consideration."
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
<http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/>
________________________________
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Engines-List: FYI
The US Air Force has announced that it will scrap all 110 remaining
T-3A Firefly training aircraft in the fleet. The planes were grounded
in 1997 after numerous incidents and three crashes. While the Air Force
attributed two of the fatal mishaps to pilot error, all three accidents
involved problems with the engine, a six cylinder Textron Lycoming
AEIO-540-D4A5 generating 260 hp driving a three-bladed prop.
According to GlobalSecurity.org, the T-3A's engine had failed 66 times
during takeoffs or landings. The Air Force grounded 57 of the planes on
ten separate occasions due to problems with either engines, fuel
systems, or brakes.
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: T-3A Firefly Aircraft Destroyed |
As one of the lucky few to go through the enhanced flight screening program
at Hondo in 1997, this makes me absolutely sick. The T-3 was a great airplan
e to fly. I would have purchased one in a second. At the very least that AEI
O-540-D4A5 would have complimented my RV-10 nicely.
Jim
40134 ~70 hours flying
-----Original Message-----
From: Rhonda@bpaengines.com
om
Sent: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 5:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: T-3A Firefly Aircraft Destroyed
Sorry for the cross postings, but I felt this issue was worthwhile. See bel
ow an email sent to several news agencies. In addition, a letter is in the
draft stages to Sen. Jim Inhofe, who is a member of the Senate Arms Committe
e and a GA advocate. I encourage you to do the same.
=9CPlease review the attached stories regarding the Air Force's dispos
al of 110 T-3A Firefly airplanes that cost the American taxpayers $33,000,00
0. These airplanes were grounded after three fatal accidents. It was deter
mined that the airplanes had fuel delivery problems.
http://www.txaa.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=1554
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123026857
Generally when aircraft are destroyed, they are disassembled and the good co
mponents are then sold through auction or salvage. The Air Force, however,
has completely destroyed all components, including new engines and propeller
s still in the crates from the factory.
My company is an engine overhaul facility which supports the general aviatio
n market. The engines associated with these aircraft are used in a multitud
e of certified and experimental aircraft with very reliable results and are
highly sought after. In fact, we had already begun inquiries with the GSA o
n how to bid on these components when these stories came across our desk.
What a waste of the taxpayer's money!! I feel confident that even those ind
ividuals who don't have a passion for flight would find this type of activit
y deplorable. I hope you will give this story your consideration.=9D
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Speedy11@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: Engines-List: FYI
The US Air Force has announced that it will scrap all 110 remaining T-3A Fi
refly training aircraft in the fleet. The planes were grounded in 1997 afte
r numerous incidents and three crashes. While the Air Force attributed two
of the fatal mishaps to pilot error, all three accidents involved problems w
ith the engine, a six cylinder Textron Lycoming AEIO-540-D4A5 generating 260
hp driving a three-bladed prop.
According to GlobalSecurity.org, the T-3A's engine had failed 66 times durin
g takeoffs or landings. The Air Force grounded 57 of the planes on ten separ
ate occasions due to problems with either engines, fuel systems, or brakes.
Do not archive
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security t
ools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, fr
ee AOL Mail and more.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Mike Seager Training (1M5) |
--> RV10-List message posted by: rv10builder <rv10builder@bellsouth.net>
It's $155 an hour + minor travel expenses (~$10 - $20) per student to
cover his hotel. I spent 2.3 hours with him yesterday and just grabbed
another slot on Saturday. There's an article about Mike in SA this
month; I can tell you the article is dead on. He REALLY knows that
RV-10, and is a real joy to fly with!
Brian
40308
David M. wrote:
> How much $?
>
> David M.
>
>
> John McMahon wrote:
>> *For anyone close that needs some time in the RV-10,we have*
>> *some slots open on Sat 16th at Portland,Tn (1M5)..*
>> *Just give me a call and I will try to get you in!!!!*
>> **
>> * John McMahon*
>> * Home=615-452-8742*
>> * Cell=615-336-2340*
>>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lurker Flies RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: rv10builder <rv10builder@bellsouth.net>
Steve,
It was great chatting with you yesterday! I warned you that it was
gonna cost you more than the $155/hr advertised! Hope to see you join
the ranks soon...
Brian
http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder
Steven Roberts wrote:
> I have been lurking on the Yahoo and Matronix RV-10 lists for two
> years...couldn't bring myself to commit $100K+ without ever flying an RV.
>
> Yesterday I had the chance to fly N220RV with Mike Seager in the right
> seat. I can sum up the experience with what I said to Mike at the end
> of the flight...I gotta get me one of these!
>
> I thought perhaps the thousands of other lurkers out there might
> appreciate the observations of this ex-lurker.
>
> I am a 300 hour instrument pilot, current but pretty rusty from not
> flying much over the past few years. Even so, after an hour with Mike
> I felt pretty comfortable in the 10, and the five landings I made were
> not bad, certainly better than my average landing in a spam can. One
> was in a 12 knot crosswind..."right rudder, right rudder, MORE right
> rudder". Hey, I said I was rusty. Other observations:
>
> Lots of power, even with the 210 hp in 220RV. The 260 hp must be a
> rocket.
>
> Much faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying...170 mph
> at 10 gph at 2500 msl was one of the datapoints I remember.
>
> Stick vs. yoke a non-issue after five minutes. My only stick time was
> in a super cub.
>
> Stalls at all the flap and power settings were slight nose drops and
> slight buffet...non-events actually. No wing drop at all.
>
> 220RV has electric pitch and roll trim on the stick coolie hat. You
> are going to love electric trim.
>
> Even though I had a few hours in aircraft with steering by
> differential braking, this takes some practice to steer precisely.
>
> Landings procedures in the RV-10 are different than spam cans, and 20
> knots faster than the Cessna's and Pipers I have been flying. Not
> harder, just different than you might be used to. I would not advise
> flying the RV-10 for the first time without some transition training,
> even if you have thousands of hours. This is my opinion with regard
> to safety, not insurance requirements, your mileage may vary. Mike
> Seager is an excellent source for transition training; his website is
> http://www.rvshirtsnmore.com
>
> There were several pilots taking transition training from Mike prior
> to first flights. Thank you for taking the time to answer my endless
> questions. Also, thanks to John McMahon for setting up the training
> in Portland, TN.
>
> This airplane is responsive yet stable, a fast load hauler yet easy to
> fly. Fairly roomy inside yet economical. It is hard to believe you
> can get all these features in one airplane.
>
> Lastly, demo flights in the RV-10 cost between $100K and $150K,
> depending on your engine and panel selections.
>
> Steve Roberts
> Alpharetta, GA
> *
>
>
> *
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Mike Seager Training (1M5) |
$192.00 1.5 Hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: David M.
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Mike Seager Training (1M5)
How much $?
David M.
John McMahon wrote:
For anyone close that needs some time in the RV-10,we have
some slots open on Sat 16th at Portland,Tn (1M5)..
Just give me a call and I will try to get you in!!!!
John McMahon
Home=615-452-8742
Cell=615-336-2340
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | 51% Rule saga continues |
I do see a bit of irony that Van is a co chair of this committee and he
is knowingly selling kits to people that violate the rule.....
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/060914_rights.html
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
Do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Flying -10s in Northwest |
Ron is stat due?
Wad r u doin o dare brudder??
No one dun talking your lingo eh?
Maybe it's the dates wots gottem thinkum eh?
7th and 8th? Huh? even in dose amerry cars it'll be 16 and 17 Say what?
John 40315
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron
Sent: Thursday, 14 September 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Flying -10s in Northwest
Post below did not work - tryin' again with an Umherikun accent:
'owdy y'all ,
Ahm in Seattle at da momen un biznuss . Wuz wunderin' if der waz
any dun 10's 'roun' 'ere. Vans is jus 'roun da bend', but they ain't
open on da weegen. Ahll ave sum time ta kyall over de weegend (7/8
Sep), so would luve to tooch base with any buildars in de area.
y'all ave good day now
Rarn from the da deeeep South
G'day all,
I am in Seattle at the moment on business. I was wondering if there were
any completed 10's in the area. I know Vans is 'just down the road', but I
think they are closed on the weekends. (I think I flew over their field on
the way up from LAX - and the scenery here is just awesome!). I'll have some
time to kill over this coming weekend (7/8 Sep), so would love to touch base
with any builders in the area.
cheers,
Ron from South Oz
finishing (when I'm home)
Do not archive
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: 51% Rule saga continues |
IF I were to buy an RV-10 kit to build for someone else I would buy in
their name not my own. Their check & signature. Shipping address..? ?
Have it delivered to a local dock in the 'builders/payers" name.
Why ? ? So he/she, the "buyer", could obtain the Repairman's
Certificate. Without a name & address of the "real builder" is Van now
to play cop too. Key word "KNOWINGLY", there is a big difference between
Thinking, believing, having a hunch and having proof & knowledge. Key
word "PROOF".
KABONG Ex-Det. Sgt & DA liaison for Fontana PD. Do Not Archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: 51% Rule saga continues
I do see a bit of irony that Van is a co chair of this committee and
he is knowingly selling kits to people that violate the rule...
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/060914_rights.html
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
Do not archive
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Flying -10s in Northwest |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Peeking at the RV-10 builders list, I'm surprised but I don't see
any Washington State builders listed. Lots of them down in
Oregon though. You may just try popping an email to a few
of those guys. Every one of them I've met from the Portland
area is really nice, and I'm sure they'd all be proud to show
off their kits.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Dunne wrote:
> Ron is stat due?
>
> Wad r u doin o dare brudder??
>
> No one dun talking your lingo eh?
>
> Maybe its the dates wots gottem thinkum eh?
>
> 7^th and 8^th ? Huh? even in dose amerry cars itll be 16 and 17 Say what?
>
> John 40315
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *McGANN, Ron
> *Sent:* Thursday, 14 September 2006 4:46 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Flying -10s in Northwest
>
>
>
> Post below did not work - tryin' again with an Umherikun accent:
>
> 'owdy y'all ,
>
> Ahm in Seattle at da momen un biznuss . Wuz wunderin' if der
> waz any dun 10's 'roun' 'ere. Vans is jus 'roun da bend', but
> they ain't open on da weegen. Ahll ave sum time ta kyall
> over de weegend (7/8 Sep), so would luve to tooch base with any
> buildars in de area.
>
> y'all ave good day now
> Rarn from the da deeeep South
>
>
>
>
>
> G'day all,
>
> I am in Seattle at the moment on business. I was wondering if there
> were any completed 10's in the area. I know Vans is 'just down the
> road', but I think they are closed on the weekends. (I think I flew
> over their field on the way up from LAX - and the scenery here is
> just awesome!). I'll have some time to kill over this coming weekend
> (7/8 Sep), so would love to touch base with any builders in the area.
>
> cheers,
> Ron from South Oz
> finishing (when I'm home)
>
> Do not archive
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *s.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * - The RV10-List Email Forum -*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
>
> *--> *
>
> * - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -*
>
> *--> ***
>
> * - List Contribution Web Site -*
>
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 51% Rule saga continues |
There are many more than Van's to blame- does he have the right to not
sell to anyone? probably not worth a lawsuit, he has enough of those
already with the Harmon Rocket's, is it worth the loss of business? I
think not, how about those inspectors? The DAR and/or FAA that allow
these planes to get into the market, certainly they are aware who is a
builder for education/hobby and one in it for resale. Not saying that
N325HP @ $230K out there on Aerotrader for sale wasn't built for
education (truthfully it may very well have been ) but when I see "Prof
built, high-end. 320HP" with 20, yes, 20 hours total time I have to ask
myself what the motivation was for many of these low time planes that
are just finishing up the testing time, and for so high??
My point is, that certainly Van sold the kits but he is taking a stance
to assure he works with the EAA and FAA to protect those of us who have
a passion to build for our own education, entertainment and long term
enjoyment. As a Lancair convert I'll say that Van's, the builders, and
the flyers of RV aircraft have something special not seen elsewhere. By
Van's being in the leadership for this committee, I see it as he is
ready to take his time to assure we all (at least the one's doing it for
the reason Experimental category was created) benefit in the future
knowing he could lose a nice chunk of his business. It's a good thing!
Pascal
This is strictly my opinion and is subject to change without notice,
reason or logic
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 6:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: 51% Rule saga continues
I do see a bit of irony that Van is a co chair of this committee and
he is knowingly selling kits to people that violate the rule...
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/060914_rights.html
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
Do not archive
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | T-3A Firefly Aircraft Destroyed |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Don't want to get on my soapbox, but there doesn't seem anything too unusual
about this. I am sure a lot of people made some good money on the deals
surrounding this issue. What is 33million anyway?
I highly recommend people rent the movie, "Why We Fight."
People need to not only keep their eyes open, but their minds. You might
learn something.
John G. #409
>From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda@bpaengines.com>
>To: <engines-list@matronics.com>, <rv10-list@matronics.com>,
><rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: T-3A Firefly Aircraft Destroyed
>Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 16:17:01 -0500
>
>Sorry for the cross postings, but I felt this issue was worthwhile. See
>below an email sent to several news agencies. In addition, a letter is
>in the draft stages to Sen. Jim Inhofe, who is a member of the Senate
>Arms Committee and a GA advocate. I encourage you to do the same.
>
>
>"Please review the attached stories regarding the Air Force's disposal
>of 110 T-3A Firefly airplanes that cost the American taxpayers
>$33,000,000. These airplanes were grounded after three fatal accidents.
>It was determined that the airplanes had fuel delivery problems.
>
>
>http://www.txaa.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=1554
>
>http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123026857
>
>
>Generally when aircraft are destroyed, they are disassembled and the
>good components are then sold through auction or salvage. The Air
>Force, however, has completely destroyed all components, including new
>engines and propellers still in the crates from the factory.
>
>
>My company is an engine overhaul facility which supports the general
>aviation market. The engines associated with these aircraft are used in
>a multitude of certified and experimental aircraft with very reliable
>results and are highly sought after. In fact, we had already begun
>inquiries with the GSA on how to bid on these components when these
>stories came across our desk.
>
>
>What a waste of the taxpayer's money!! I feel confident that even those
>individuals who don't have a passion for flight would find this type of
>activity deplorable. I hope you will give this story your
>consideration."
>
>
>Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
>
>Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
>
>2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
>
>Tulsa, OK 74115
>
>(918) 835-1089
>
>www.barrettprecisionengines.com
><http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-engines-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
>Speedy11@aol.com
>Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:14 AM
>To: engines-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Engines-List: FYI
>
>
>The US Air Force has announced that it will scrap all 110 remaining
>T-3A Firefly training aircraft in the fleet. The planes were grounded
>in 1997 after numerous incidents and three crashes. While the Air Force
>attributed two of the fatal mishaps to pilot error, all three accidents
>involved problems with the engine, a six cylinder Textron Lycoming
>AEIO-540-D4A5 generating 260 hp driving a three-bladed prop.
>
>According to GlobalSecurity.org, the T-3A's engine had failed 66 times
>during takeoffs or landings. The Air Force grounded 57 of the planes on
>ten separate occasions due to problems with either engines, fuel
>systems, or brakes.
>
>Do not archive
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Flying -10s in Northwest |
Tim and John - thanks for the responses.
Yeah - jet lagged when I wrote the emails. Here this coming weekend
16/17, but looks like I will now be working. Bummer.
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Friday, 15 September 2006 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Flying -10s in Northwest
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Peeking at the RV-10 builders list, I'm surprised but I don't see
any Washington State builders listed. Lots of them down in
Oregon though. You may just try popping an email to a few
of those guys. Every one of them I've met from the Portland
area is really nice, and I'm sure they'd all be proud to show
off their kits.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Dunne wrote:
> Ron is stat due?
>
> Wad r u doin o dare brudder??
>
> No one dun talking your lingo eh?
>
> Maybe it's the dates wots gottem thinkum eh?
>
> 7^th and 8^th ? Huh? even in dose amerry cars it'll be 16 and 17 Say
what?
>
> John 40315
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *McGANN,
Ron
> *Sent:* Thursday, 14 September 2006 4:46 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Flying -10s in Northwest
>
>
>
> Post below did not work - tryin' again with an Umherikun accent:
>
> 'owdy y'all ,
>
> Ahm in Seattle at da momen un biznuss . Wuz wunderin' if
der
> waz any dun 10's 'roun' 'ere. Vans is jus 'roun da bend',
but
> they ain't open on da weegen. Ahll ave sum time ta kyall
> over de weegend (7/8 Sep), so would luve to tooch base with
any
> buildars in de area.
>
> y'all ave good day now
> Rarn from the da deeeep South
>
>
>
>
>
> G'day all,
>
> I am in Seattle at the moment on business. I was wondering if
there
> were any completed 10's in the area. I know Vans is 'just down
the
> road', but I think they are closed on the weekends. (I think I
flew
> over their field on the way up from LAX - and the scenery here is
> just awesome!). I'll have some time to kill over this coming
weekend
> (7/8 Sep), so would love to touch base with any builders in the
area.
>
> cheers,
> Ron from South Oz
> finishing (when I'm home)
>
> Do not archive
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *s.com/Navigator?RV10-List*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> * - The RV10-List Email Forum -*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> * - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -*
>
> *--> *
>
> * - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -*
>
> *--> ***
>
> * - List Contribution Web Site -*
>
> * -Matt Dralle, List Admin.*
>
> **
>
> * *
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