Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:49 AM - HS-1008L/R Brackets (Link McGarity)
2. 06:52 AM - Re: HS-1008L/R Brackets (Rick)
3. 06:55 AM - 300 HP engines (BPA)
4. 07:17 AM - Re: Safety Alert WD-415 weldment (Mike Lauritsen - Work)
5. 08:01 AM - Re: Need Some Advice (James K Hovis)
6. 08:28 AM - Re: Lycoming IO-540 300-HP engines? (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
7. 09:23 AM - Re: Lycoming IO-540 300-HP engines? (Deems Davis)
8. 10:17 AM - Re: Need Some Advice (John Jessen)
9. 10:25 AM - Re: engine inspections? (Vern W. Smith)
10. 10:54 AM - Number of 10 tails? (John Jessen)
11. 10:57 AM - Sorry (John Jessen)
12. 12:07 PM - Re: Safety Alert WD-415 weldment (phil barnette)
13. 12:27 PM - Re: Need Some Advice (Tim Olson)
14. 01:54 PM - Countersink problem (John Goodman)
15. 01:56 PM - Re: 300 HP engines (gary)
16. 02:20 PM - Re: 300 HP engines (kilopapa@antelecom.net)
17. 02:46 PM - Re: Countersink problem (John Gonzalez)
18. 02:58 PM - Re: Countersink problem (Rick)
19. 03:00 PM - Re: 300 HP engines (gary)
20. 03:14 PM - Re: 300 HP engines (gary)
21. 04:17 PM - Re: 300 HP engines (kilopapa@antelecom.net)
22. 05:10 PM - Will James cowl plug for RV-10 (Deems Davis)
23. 05:26 PM - Re: 300 HP engines (Neil Colliver)
24. 05:28 PM - LED Nav Lights (Rob Wright)
25. 05:54 PM - Re: Will James cowl plug for RV-10 (John W. Cox)
26. 05:57 PM - Re: Will James cowl plug for RV-10 (Chris Johnston)
27. 06:39 PM - Re: Will James cowl plug for RV-10 (Marcus Cooper)
28. 07:12 PM - Re: Countersink problem (Steven DiNieri)
29. 07:54 PM - Re: Will James cowl plug for RV-10 (Deems Davis)
30. 08:13 PM - Lycoming Thunderbolt Factory FFW "Kit" for RV-10 (Eric Parlow)
Message 1
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| Subject: | HS-1008L/R Brackets |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Link McGarity <wv4i@bellsouth.net>
Take care to note that dimensions on these angled aluminum parts go from
1.5" on the long side end to 1.5" at angle to 1 21/32" at short side
end. Also, note that the flare is only on one side of short angle side,
not both. Not a big deal if caught early. Note that Air Parts has more
AA6-187-3x3, as well as Van's, hi.....
Link McGarity
#40622
Thanks to Deems Davis' site for great pics of these parts (images 1,4,5):
http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/CNC%20Parts/index.html
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: HS-1008L/R Brackets |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Read the plans, measure twice, cut outside the finished called out dimensions and
file to the finished dimensions followed by proper deburring and polishing.
Consider fabricating these parts as the EDUCATIONAL part of building your aircraft.
If you screw up don't make the same mistake twice ;)
Given that, the trim tab brackets suck and short of brazing up the provided ones
I would opt for the nicely machined ones unless I had a mill handy.
Do you think buying these parts will lower your build below the %51 percent mark?
They are somewhat time consuming but when you do finish them they sure are
a small rewarding part of the construction process.
Rick S.
40185
-----Original Message-----
>From: Link McGarity <wv4i@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Sep 18, 2006 2:47 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: HS-1008L/R Brackets
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Link McGarity <wv4i@bellsouth.net>
>
>Take care to note that dimensions on these angled aluminum parts go from
>1.5" on the long side end to 1.5" at angle to 1 21/32" at short side
>end. Also, note that the flare is only on one side of short angle side,
>not both. Not a big deal if caught early. Note that Air Parts has more
>AA6-187-3x3, as well as Van's, hi.....
>
>Link McGarity
>#40622
>
>Thanks to Deems Davis' site for great pics of these parts (images 1,4,5):
>
>http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/CNC%20Parts/index.html
>
>
Message 3
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The angle head IO-540 can be ruled out as a candidate for the -10
because of the increase in both width and weight. Additionally, don't
expect 290-300 HP from the standard vertical induction (D4A5-C4B5) sump
as the inlet throat is too small requiring the 'smaller' RSA-5, AFP
FM200, or Precision servo, and the inlet air is heated from the oil
temps and is not very efficient, regardless of compression ratio. That
being said, an increase in compression of 9:1 will net you an increase
of about 6-8, possibly 10 HP without any detrimental effect on the
engine. But, increase the compression to say, 9.5:1 and higher, and the
bearing load particularly the rod bearings, increase substantially. This
will affect the TBO of the engine. In a nut shell the higher the
compression, the lower the TBO of the engine. The Cold Air Induction
system that some builders are opting for has a three inch opening
allowing the use of a bigger fuel servo. An engine configured with Cold
Air, RSA-10 or AFP 300 A servo, 9:1 compression can and has dynoed at
290 plus sea level horsepower. The Cold Air Induction won't fit under
the standard Van's cowl because of the plenum chamber depth and inlet
air location, but there is an alternative cowl design in the works
(James Cowl).
Not meaning any disrespect to John as I value his knowledge and input
and have had several very meaningful conversations with him (thanks
John), but there is no significant difference in weight or width between
the old narrow deck and current wide deck cases. The narrow deck cases
of yesteryear have screw in =BD " case studs that were anchored in one
half of the cases. The newer style wide deck cases have shouldered, or
body fit through bolts. Also, the narrow deck cases have a narrower
cylinder stud pattern than the wide decks and require plates under the
cylinder base nuts for rigidity.
I hope this clarifies just a few questions.
Allen Barrett
BPE, Inc.
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
<http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/>
________________________________
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Safety Alert WD-415 weldment |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Lauritsen - Work" <mike@cleavelandtool.com>
We have talked about this but have not made any progress thus far.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Safety Alert WD-415 weldment
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I think the new parts would be great, but I've never had them
in hand. For an alternative, see this link.
Either way, I personally wouldn't fly with the original parts
as shipped....stainless or otherwise. Why not just make it more
surely safe?
See:
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/finishing/20051228/index.html
But those new parts do look great. Mr. Cleaveland Mike...you
should enquire about being a reseller....would be a more common
order source.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Need Some Advice |
If you'd like, send me the pictures directly. Telling people how to fix such
problems is actually what I do for a living ;-).
JKH.
On 9/16/06, dmaib@mac.com <dmaib@mac.com> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "dmaib@mac.com" <dmaib@mac.com>
>
> I had an unfortunate accident this afternoon when one of my Quick Build
> wings slipped from it's cradle. As you will see from the images, the inboard
> leading edge was dented and the inboard end of the fuel tank was deformed. I
> would like to hear some thoughts on recovering from this mistake.
>
> David Maib :(
> #40559
> /Users/davidmaib/Desktop/IMG_0835.JPG
> /Users/davidmaib/Desktop/IMG_0836.JPG
> /Users/davidmaib/Desktop/IMG_0837.JPG
> /Users/davidmaib/Desktop/IMG_0838.JPG
> /Users/davidmaib/Desktop/IMG_0839.JPG
> /Users/davidmaib/Desktop/IMG_0840.JPG
> [/img]
>
> --------
> David Maib
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62020#62020
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Lycoming IO-540 300-HP engines? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Is that me? Sounds like me but I dyno'd at 272 I believe. I am also
running dual LSE III ignitions so you could probably expect to see a
little more HP off of mags. It was also over 100 degrees when they ran
the dyno test which I'm sure ate up several HP.
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lycoming IO-540 300-HP engines?
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I know of one -10 builder who had BPE build his engine, with a bigger
fuel injection pump. 9:1 pistons, Cold Air induction, and Forsling
exhaust. It dyno'd at or above 290 hp. That's the same config that I'm
also in line for from BPE, I'm hoping for similar results (depending on
the weather/temp the day they run the engine). Bigger pistons would
easily push the engine to or above 300 hp. I believe that Vic Syracuse
has 300 ponies on a Lycoming based engine in his plane.
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/wiring/finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
John W. Cox wrote:
> Jack, this question will be best answered by Rhonda and the group from
> Barrett. The cowl design was specifically directed and design to be
> made so narrow that the wide deck Lycoming and Continentals could not
> fit. You added weight and inlet design into your criteria which would
> eliminate use of a forward facing (rather than updraft) injection
> unit. I believe that only allows compression ratio increase and tuned
> headers as the means to your end. The same weight requirement
> eliminates a turbo. Hopefully Rhonda will restate how much hp can be
> squeezed with a clear trade off from "the same physical
> characteristics (dimensions, inlet design, and weight) as the 260-HP".
> I think I remember 290 (dynode) but with significant fuel type
> restrictions, consumption rate and oil temp issues. The James Wholly
> Cowl may change some of this. Again ask Ed Hayden. You can always use
> Hollywood Horsepower and tell everyone 325.
>
> Modify your parameters and then ask Vic Syracuse and Ed about the
> output of their fire breathing red powerplants.
>
> John Cox - always willing to expand the thought process of SAFE
> RV-10s. Nomex III Suit ON.
>
> Do not Archive
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *JACK
> LOCKAMY
> *Sent:* Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:52 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Lycoming IO-540 300-HP engines?
>
> Hope this doesn't start an 'engine war', but I'm curious if anyone has
> installed (or plans to install) a 300-HP Lycoming that has the same
> physical characteristics (dimensions, inlet design, and weight) as the
> 260-HP version Van's recommends?
>
> I know the Glasair-III guys use the IO-540-K1A5/K1A5Ds with lots of
> success. Just wondering if the RV-10 would be a suitable candidate for
> a 300-HP injected Lycoming. And yes, I am aware of the manufactuer's
> opinion on engine recommendations.... . I'm just doing my research
> before I take the plunge and start an RV-10 project.
>
> If you don't care to possibly be flammed or publically share your
> info, please email me direct.
>
> TIA,
>
> Jack Lockamy
> Camarillo, CA
>
> RV-7A N174JL 225 hrs
>
> 'Thinking RV-10 kit in the near future'
>
> www.jacklockamy.com <http://www.jacklockamy.com>
>
> do not archive
>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming IO-540 300-HP engines? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I was Gary Foster's engine.
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/wiring
http://deemsrv10.com/
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
>Is that me? Sounds like me but I dyno'd at 272 I believe. I am also
>running dual LSE III ignitions so you could probably expect to see a
>little more HP off of mags. It was also over 100 degrees when they ran
>the dyno test which I'm sure ate up several HP.
>
>Michael
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 12:45 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Lycoming IO-540 300-HP engines?
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
>I know of one -10 builder who had BPE build his engine, with a bigger
>fuel injection pump. 9:1 pistons, Cold Air induction, and Forsling
>exhaust. It dyno'd at or above 290 hp. That's the same config that I'm
>also in line for from BPE, I'm hoping for similar results (depending on
>the weather/temp the day they run the engine). Bigger pistons would
>easily push the engine to or above 300 hp. I believe that Vic Syracuse
>has 300 ponies on a Lycoming based engine in his plane.
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Panel/wiring/finishing
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>John W. Cox wrote:
>
>
>
>>Jack, this question will be best answered by Rhonda and the group from
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Barrett. The cowl design was specifically directed and design to be
>>made so narrow that the wide deck Lycoming and Continentals could not
>>fit. You added weight and inlet design into your criteria which would
>>eliminate use of a forward facing (rather than updraft) injection
>>unit. I believe that only allows compression ratio increase and tuned
>>headers as the means to your end. The same weight requirement
>>eliminates a turbo. Hopefully Rhonda will restate how much hp can be
>>squeezed with a clear trade off from "the same physical
>>characteristics (dimensions, inlet design, and weight) as the 260-HP".
>>I think I remember 290 (dynode) but with significant fuel type
>>restrictions, consumption rate and oil temp issues. The James Wholly
>>Cowl may change some of this. Again ask Ed Hayden. You can always use
>>Hollywood Horsepower and tell everyone 325.
>>
>>Modify your parameters and then ask Vic Syracuse and Ed about the
>>output of their fire breathing red powerplants.
>>
>>John Cox - always willing to expand the thought process of SAFE
>>RV-10s. Nomex III Suit ON.
>>
>>Do not Archive
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>--
>>
>>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *JACK
>>LOCKAMY
>>*Sent:* Sunday, September 17, 2006 7:52 AM
>>*To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>*Subject:* RV10-List: Lycoming IO-540 300-HP engines?
>>
>>Hope this doesn't start an 'engine war', but I'm curious if anyone has
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>installed (or plans to install) a 300-HP Lycoming that has the same
>>physical characteristics (dimensions, inlet design, and weight) as the
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>260-HP version Van's recommends?
>>
>>I know the Glasair-III guys use the IO-540-K1A5/K1A5Ds with lots of
>>success. Just wondering if the RV-10 would be a suitable candidate for
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>a 300-HP injected Lycoming. And yes, I am aware of the manufactuer's
>>opinion on engine recommendations.... . I'm just doing my research
>>before I take the plunge and start an RV-10 project.
>>
>>If you don't care to possibly be flammed or publically share your
>>info, please email me direct.
>>
>>TIA,
>>
>>Jack Lockamy
>>Camarillo, CA
>>
>>RV-7A N174JL 225 hrs
>>
>>'Thinking RV-10 kit in the near future'
>>
>>www.jacklockamy.com <http://www.jacklockamy.com>
>>
>>do not archive
>>
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Need Some Advice |
Updating my web site. Anyone know the latest number of tails sold to date
(Any newbie out there with a number higher than 620?)? Van's has 49
completions listed on it's site. Anyone completed but not sent their note
to Van's, please chime in, publicly or privately.
NW builders, be aware that the last half of the first biannual RV-10
builders and flyers dinner is beginning to be planned. More to follow at
the local level.
Thanks
John Jessen
40328 ( back in the shop after almost 8 weeks absent; sure feels GOOD! )
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | engine inspections? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Vern W. Smith" <Vern@teclabsinc.com>
Hi Chris,
There is a lot you can learn about an engine before paying for an
inspection.
1. Get the serial number and call Lycoming with it. They can tell you
any dealing they have had with the engine.
2. Buy a copy of the overhaul and maintenance manual for the engine
(available through Lycoming or at www.escoaircraft.com).
3. Get an ADs list from either Lycoming or the FAA website. See if these
are complied with. Some people will say these are not need because of
being an experimental, but most ADs are for you safety.
4. Go to Lycoming site and make bloody sure the crankshaft is not
affected by the crank AD. This is a BIG ticket item.
5. Ensure the engine doesn't have ECI Classic Cast cylinders. Again,
another big ticket item with an AD on them.
6. Get third party feedback about the overhualer. Also find out if the
overhaul was to new of service limits. Call the EAA chapter in the area
of the overhualer and ask them if they have any experience with them.
7. Ask for copies of the overhaul receipts. Was the engine case line
board? Was the cam and crank reworked, replaced? Is it undersized and by
how much? Are the cylinders new over overhauled?
8. Look through the log and find out how many hours total time and times
it has been overhauled? I have been told three overhauls are about all
that can be expected from a case. But this was one person's opinion.
Check the logs for teardown inspection (read sudden stoppage) or thing
related to prop strikes. Was it repaired correctly after such an event?
9. Look at how long and how the engine has been stored.
10. Also check the engine mounts the RV-10 uses the small holed mounts
#70456.
11. If the engine is mounted and running get a hot compression test and
oil analysis (about $19). Check what the plugs look like. If this isn't
possible get a cold compression test. If the engine is preserved,
neither of these will be meaningful or possible.
12. If possible fly behind it. Check cold oil pressure and hot oil
pressure note the difference between these. Are they within limit for
that specific engine?
13. Try and get the N number for the plane it came out of and look it up
on the NTSB website for possible accident involvement.
And now the disclaimer: This list is not an all inclusive inspection
list and doesn't replace an inspection. But it will help you eliminate
the "also runs" from your list for very little cash. I'm not an IA or an
A&P but I have been in the same position you're in and these are a few
points I have gleaned.
Hope this is helpful,
Vern (40324 wings; left ready to close right maybe another week:)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris
Johnston
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 8:53 PM
Subject: RV10-List: engine inspections?
hey all -
i'm looking into buying an overhauled engine from a private seller, and
wondered what cost is usually associated with having an engine shop
disassemble and inspect the engine? i'm looking at an 0-540 E4B5 that i
want to change over to fuel injection, and also install electronic
ignition instead of mags. as an ex-drag race engine builder, i have a
pretty good handle on engines in general, but i've never dealt with an
aircraft engine, and would rather have a professional make sure all is
good. any and all advice would be GREATLY appreciated. also the engine
is an O-540 E4B5, which i think is appropriate for the RV-10 from the
research that i did, but if somehow i've misread or misunderstood the
engine identifiers that are comparable, please, someone let me know
before i waste a bunch of money!
thanks in advance!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Number of 10 tails? |
Updating my web site. Anyone know the latest number of tails sold to date
(Any newbie out there with a number higher than 620?)? Van's has 49
completions listed on it's site. Anyone completed but not sent their note
to Van's, please chime in, publicly or privately.
NW builders, be aware that the last half of the first biannual RV-10
builders and flyers dinner is beginning to be planned. More to follow at
the local level.
Thanks
John Jessen
40328 ( back in the shop after almost 8 weeks absent; sure feels GOOD! )
do not archive
Message 11
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Hit the button twice. One with wrong title.
John J
do not archive
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Safety Alert WD-415 weldment |
ordered the rivethead extruded parts, as well as several of the other products
he has- will be delivered today, so haven't seen the quality, but other folks
say they're great. After spending several hours on the horizontal stabilizer
attach brackets, then misdrilling one of the holes, $20 for the set of HS brackets
is just the right prove!
phil
RV10
horizontal stabilizer
KSLC
"McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann@baesystems.com> wrote:
All,
Here is a repost from Vic Syracuse to the VAF forum. I have not seen the message
on this list but think it is essential reading for all of us. Thanks Vic
for the heads up!
"I thought I should let everyone know that yesterday during a preflight I noticed
that the left trim tab had a little more slop in it than usual. I took off
the trim cable access cover plate, and it came completely off, meaning the nut
was broken from the wd-415 weldment. I know we have talked in the past about
that particular piece not looking quite sturdy enough, and right now that looks
to be the case. I have a little over 320 hours on the airplane. I did not
notice it on my post flight Sunday, but on my preflight prior to my commute home
yesterday.
alk about a miracle, though, and the advantages of the RV community. I live at
Mallard's Landing in Georgia, and so does Aaron Sims, another RV-10 builder
who is not flying yet. Guess who's parts I got to borrow?
So, I am replacing both mine and Aarons with the parts from Dave at Rivethead-aero.com.
Ordered them and 4 new cover plates from Van;s last night. I would
recommend to those of you who are flying that you check these regularly.
Now, for my opinion on the actual safety if a failure occurs? I think the trim
cables are pretty stiff. I did go ahead and make the 15 minute flight home with
no problem. If both of them broke, we might have a different story, but that's
only conjecture.
Here's the link for the parts:
<http://www.rivethead-aero.com/rv10_005.htm>
Vic"
---------------------------------
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Need Some Advice |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I know I've gotten an email from 40631, so we're at least that high.
I've been *trying* to fix up the builders list a bit to highlight
all the flying RV-10's, but many have not contacted me at all,
so the list is pretty rough. It is still growing, however.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
> Updating my web site. Anyone know the latest number of tails sold to
> date (Any newbie out there with a number higher than 620?)? Van's has
> 49 completions listed on it's site. Anyone completed but not sent their
> note to Van's, please chime in, publicly or privately.
>
> NW builders, be aware that the last half of the first biannual RV-10
> builders and flyers dinner is beginning to be planned. More to follow
> at the local level.
>
> Thanks
>
> John Jessen
> 40328 ( back in the shop after almost 8 weeks absent; sure feels GOOD! )
>
> do not archive
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Countersink problem |
--> RV10-List message posted by: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
Well I went and blew it. I was countersinking the HS 1007 and went too
deep on one hole. The metal is thick enough that it's still good, but
the 1/8" rivet head sits too deep. Is there such a thing as an
oversized flush head rivet? I live 5 minutes from Aircraft Spruce -
would they have anything?
John Goodman
#40572
Message 15
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Just for additional info for inquiring minds, I have one of Allen=92s
cold air
inductions on my engine and am using Van=92s standard cowl with some
modification. I am a fiberglass builder of old, Glasair III, and I
don=92t
think that anyone should have any trouble modifying the cowl to make the
cold air induction fit. If you are interested in the specfics of the
mod,
e-mail me and I will fill you in.
Gary
40274
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:56 AM
Subject: RV10-List: 300 HP engines
The angle head IO-540 can be ruled out as a candidate for the -10
because of
the increase in both width and weight. Additionally, don=92t expect
290-300 HP
from the standard vertical induction (D4A5-C4B5) sump as the inlet
throat is
too small requiring the =91smaller=92 RSA-5, AFP FM200, or Precision
servo, and
the inlet air is heated from the oil temps and is not very efficient,
regardless of compression ratio. That being said, an increase in
compression
of 9:1 will net you an increase of about 6-8, possibly 10 HP without any
detrimental effect on the engine. But, increase the compression to say,
9.5:1 and higher, and the bearing load particularly the rod bearings,
increase substantially. This will affect the TBO of the engine. In a nut
shell the higher the compression, the lower the TBO of the engine. The
Cold
Air Induction system that some builders are opting for has a three inch
opening allowing the use of a bigger fuel servo. An engine configured
with
Cold Air, RSA-10 or AFP 300 A servo, 9:1 compression can and has dynoed
at
290 plus sea level horsepower. The Cold Air Induction won=92t fit under
the
standard Van=92s cowl because of the plenum chamber depth and inlet air
location, but there is an alternative cowl design in the works (James
Cowl).
Not meaning any disrespect to John as I value his knowledge and input
and
have had several very meaningful conversations with him (thanks John),
but
there is no significant difference in weight or width between the old
narrow
deck and current wide deck cases. The narrow deck cases of yesteryear
have
screw in =BD =93 case studs that were anchored in one half of the cases.
The
newer style wide deck cases have shouldered, or body fit through bolts.
Also, the narrow deck cases have a narrower cylinder stud pattern than
the
wide decks and require plates under the cylinder base nuts for rigidity.
I hope this clarifies just a few questions.
Allen Barrett
BPE, Inc.
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
<http://www.barrettprecisionengines.com/>
_____
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Message 16
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--> RV10-List message posted by: kilopapa@antelecom.net
Do you have a photo of the cowling mod?
Thanks,
Kevin
40494
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 300 HP engines
>Just for additional info for inquiring minds, I have one of
>Allens cold air inductions on my engine and am using
Vans
>standard cowl with some modification. I am a fiberglass
>builder of old, Glasair III, and I dont think that
anyone
>should have any trouble modifying the cowl to make the cold
>air induction fit. If you are interested in the specfics
>of the mod, e-mail me and I will fill you in.
>
>Gary
Message 17
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| Subject: | Countersink problem |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Please let us folks that don't sleep with the plans know what part is the HS
1007? If this a is a spar then the skin dimples need to sit in the counter
sunk hole and the countersinks need to be deeper than the heads of the
rivets anyway.
Make dimples in all the different thicknesses of skin material you'll be
using and then you can use these gauges to determine the correct depth of
your countersunk hole.
Be sure to tighten your countersinker thoroughly before starting as the
depth can change and metal shaving stuck in the unit can change the depth
also.
Again, I don't remember what is HS 1007 so maybe this doesn't apply.
JG. 409 Back from summer soaring to putting on the Tail Feathers to the
cone.
>From: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Countersink problem
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 16:53:17 -0400
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>
>Well I went and blew it. I was countersinking the HS 1007 and went too deep
>on one hole. The metal is thick enough that it's still good, but the 1/8"
>rivet head sits too deep. Is there such a thing as an oversized flush head
>rivet? I live 5 minutes from Aircraft Spruce - would they have anything?
>
>John Goodman
>#40572
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Countersink problem |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
John,
You can go up to the next size rivet 5/32" or AN 426-5, Spruce sells them but you
may have a minimum order of .25 pound or something. Depending on how deep
you countersink is it may not be that big of a deal just to go ahead with the
AN4 as called out. There are lots of rivets in that plate to the spar. Going up
one size will give you the most piece of mind.
Rick S.
40185 Waaaaaaaaaay past the HS Spar
-----Original Message-----
>From: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>Sent: Sep 18, 2006 4:53 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Countersink problem
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
>
>Well I went and blew it. I was countersinking the HS 1007 and went too
>deep on one hole. The metal is thick enough that it's still good, but
>the 1/8" rivet head sits too deep. Is there such a thing as an
>oversized flush head rivet? I live 5 minutes from Aircraft Spruce -
>would they have anything?
>
>John Goodman
>#40572
>
>
Message 19
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
When I get back in town I will take some pix. I haven't completed the
glassing yet but will send what I have.
GAry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kilopapa@antelecom.net
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 300 HP engines
--> RV10-List message posted by: kilopapa@antelecom.net
Do you have a photo of the cowling mod?
Thanks,
Kevin
40494
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 300 HP engines
>Just for additional info for inquiring minds, I have one of
>Allen's cold air inductions on my engine and am using
Van's
>standard cowl with some modification. I am a fiberglass
>builder of old, Glasair III, and I don't think that
anyone
>should have any trouble modifying the cowl to make the cold
>air induction fit. If you are interested in the specfics
>of the mod, e-mail me and I will fill you in.
>
>Gary
Message 20
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
I didn't expect such a response. I am presently out of town on business, so
I will describe what I did and then take pix when I get back and get the
stuff complete.
I purchased a Brackett #101 filter assembly from a Cessna 175 and other
aircraft (Spruce). It has sufficient surface area to handle our 260++ Hp.
I made a transitional piece from the servo to the filter by gluing Styrofoam
together to make a solid block that I could carve to the correct shape.
After it is carved and sanded nice and smooth, I glassed it with 4 layers of
glass. After cure I dissolved the foam with lacquer thinner, cleaned up the
inside and cut an alternate air door in the top.
I then cut away the interfering part of Van's cowl to allow me to put the
lower cowl on the airframe. I then hot glued foam on the left, right and
bottom side of the filter outside the present inlet scoop on Vans. I plan
on making a larger exit to handle the high cyl head temps that some have
seen. When I left town I had just glued the foam in place and when I get
back I will carve nice curves on it and glass it in place on the outside.
Then I will remove excess foam on the inside and glass it in place.
Sorry if this sounds confusing. I will take pix and post them when I get
back.
Gary
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kilopapa@antelecom.net
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 300 HP engines
--> RV10-List message posted by: kilopapa@antelecom.net
Do you have a photo of the cowling mod?
Thanks,
Kevin
40494
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV10-List: 300 HP engines
>Just for additional info for inquiring minds, I have one of
>Allen's cold air inductions on my engine and am using
Van's
>standard cowl with some modification. I am a fiberglass
>builder of old, Glasair III, and I don't think that
anyone
>should have any trouble modifying the cowl to make the cold
>air induction fit. If you are interested in the specfics
>of the mod, e-mail me and I will fill you in.
>
>Gary
Message 21
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--> RV10-List message posted by: kilopapa@antelecom.net
Thanks, I am looking forward to seeing what you have done.
Kevin
40494
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "gary"
><speckter@comcast.net>
>
>I didn't expect such a response. I am presently out of
>town on business, so I will describe what I did and then
>take pix when I get back and get the stuff complete.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Will James cowl plug for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I just received several pics of the cowl plug that Will has been working
on for the RV-10 w/ BPE cold air induction, There are too many pics to
include in this post and in deferrance to those wth dial-up. So I'm
posting them at my web site http://deemsrv10.com/ go to the photo
albums and then look for the Will James Cowl folder. (They are being
published as I type this).
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: 300 HP engines |
Hi gary
I have ordered the cold air from Barretts, and so am very interested -
please send pics & details of what you did.
Thanks
Neil
On 19 Sep 2006, at 8:55, gary wrote:
>
> Just for additional info for inquiring minds, I have one of Allen=92s
> cold air inductions on my engine and am using Van=92s standard cowl
with
> some modification.- I am a fiberglass builder of old, Glasair III,
and
> I don=92t think that anyone should have any trouble modifying the cowl
> to make the cold air induction fit.- If you are interested in the
> specfics of the mod, e-mail me and I will fill you in.
> -
> Gary
> 40274
> -
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BPA
> Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:56 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: 300 HP engines
> -
> The angle head IO-540 can be ruled out as a candidate for the -10
> because of the increase in both width and weight. Additionally, don=92t
> expect 290-300 HP from the standard vertical induction (D4A5-C4B5)
> sump as the inlet throat is too small requiring the =91smaller=92
RSA-5,
> AFP FM200, or Precision servo, and the inlet air is heated from the
> oil temps and is not very efficient, regardless of compression ratio.
> That being said, an increase in compression of 9:1 will net you an
> increase of about 6-8, possibly 10 HP without any detrimental effect
> on the engine. But, increase the compression to say, 9.5:1 and higher,
> and the bearing load particularly the rod bearings, increase
> substantially. This will affect the TBO of the engine. In a nut shell
> the higher the compression, the lower the TBO of the engine. The Cold
> Air Induction system that some builders are opting for has a three
> inch opening allowing the use of a bigger fuel servo. An engine
> configured with Cold Air, RSA-10 or AFP 300 A servo, 9:1 compression
> can and has dynoed at 290 plus sea level horsepower. The Cold Air
> Induction won=92t fit under the standard Van=92s cowl because of the
> plenum chamber depth and inlet air location, but there is an
> alternative cowl design in the works (James Cowl).
> -
> Not meaning any disrespect to John as I value his knowledge and input
> and have had several very meaningful conversations with him (thanks
> John), but there is no significant difference in weight or width
> between the old narrow deck and current wide deck cases. The narrow
> deck cases of yesteryear have screw in =BD =93 case studs that were
> anchored in one half of the cases. The newer style wide deck cases
> have shouldered, or body fit through bolts. Also, the narrow deck
> cases have a narrower cylinder stud pattern than the wide decks and
> require plates under the cylinder base nuts for rigidity.
> -
> I hope this clarifies just a few questions.
> -
> Allen Barrett
> BPE, Inc.
> www.barrettprecisionengines.com
> -
> -
> ----
> -
>
> -
>
>
> I've stopped 54,091 spam messages. You can too!
> One month FREE spam protection at www.cloudmark.com
> <unknown.gif>-
>
Message 24
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Anyone install the CreativAir LED/Strobe combo lights? I'm installing both
the LED/Strobe combo as well as the Van's Ldg Light kit, so looking for
ideas on how to fit it all in there.
Rob Wright
#392
Message 25
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| Subject: | Will James cowl plug for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Will has hit a home run with this latest variant. Early pics showed he
had missed the LoPresti philosophy of location of induction near the
prop arch in a geometric plane. He has corrected that early variant. I
give now give him a 93 score of 100. Before, I was ranking it at a 75.
Maybe his lay-up is even better than the factory offering.
The ballistic/atheistic style of the spinner, the aerodynamic detail
(NACA)of the lower cowl, the circular (non rectangular) upper inlets for
upper deck differential pressure capture, the side angled design of the
induction inlet for High Alpha climb profile are winners (IMHO). It
looks faster just sitting in storage.
With Monty's Engine Magic, John's Tuned exhaust design, Scott's ceramic
tube coating idea and forward facing BPE Cold Air, this is going to be a
winner and a head turner on future production RV-10s. Now to just lay
in batts of Zetex thermal insulation to protect the matrix and some of
the latent cooling issues will reduce to a distant memory. With a
redesigned mount for proper airflow through the oil cooler and this
could be perfection in function. If he could only lay-up carbon fiber
to reduce weight further and a lower NACA duct for alternate air, I
think I would be in ecstasy tonight. Now, could I just dream that it
could also handle a TSIO-550 or AEIO-580???? ;) The Rocket owners are
loosing their grip on the pedestal position. Better hold on tight. "Are
we there yet?"
John Cox
Do not Archive - and thanks for the posting to the picture source. The
download is worth the time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Will James cowl plug for RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I just received several pics of the cowl plug that Will has been working
on for the RV-10 w/ BPE cold air induction, There are too many pics to
include in this post and in deferrance to those wth dial-up. So I'm
posting them at my web site http://deemsrv10.com/ go to the photo
albums and then look for the Will James Cowl folder. (They are being
published as I type this).
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Will James cowl plug for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston@popsound.com>
Here's a question -
Do you have to be using BPEs cold air induction to use the cowl? May
sound silly, but I get the feeling that the James cowl will cool the
engine better (and look cooler!)
cj
#40410
fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Will James cowl plug for RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I just received several pics of the cowl plug that Will has been working
on for the RV-10 w/ BPE cold air induction, There are too many pics to
include in this post and in deferrance to those wth dial-up. So I'm
posting them at my web site http://deemsrv10.com/ go to the photo
albums and then look for the Will James Cowl folder. (They are being
published as I type this).
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Will James cowl plug for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Marcus Cooper" <coop85@bellsouth.net>
Oohhh, aaaahhhh! My big question is, do you have to remove the prop each
time to get the one piece cowling off? (just kidding of course).
I may have missed a previous message, but any word on price and availability
yet? I can't say I'd be real excited about doing another cowling, but man
that looks nice!
Marcus
40 hours finished! Now off to see the rest of the country outside my 65nm
cage.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Will James cowl plug for RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I just received several pics of the cowl plug that Will has been working
on for the RV-10 w/ BPE cold air induction, There are too many pics to
include in this post and in deferrance to those wth dial-up. So I'm
posting them at my web site http://deemsrv10.com/ go to the photo
albums and then look for the Will James Cowl folder. (They are being
published as I type this).
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Countersink problem |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve@adelphia.net>
Check edge distances and if it looks good, plant a -5 rivit in place.. I've
a few in various places where I boogered drilling out a poorly driven -4
rivets.
Fwiw
Steve 40205
--> RV10-List message posted by: John Goodman <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
Well I went and blew it. I was countersinking the HS 1007 and went too
deep on one hole. The metal is thick enough that it's still good, but
the 1/8" rivet head sits too deep. Is there such a thing as an
oversized flush head rivet? I live 5 minutes from Aircraft Spruce -
would they have anything?
John Goodman
#40572
--
--
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Will James cowl plug for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Will already has a cowl made for the RV-10 w/o the Barrett CAS system,
you can see pics of it on his site.
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Finishing.Panel
http://deemsrv10.com/
Chris Johnston wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris Johnston" <CJohnston@popsound.com>
>
>Here's a question -
>
>Do you have to be using BPEs cold air induction to use the cowl? May
>sound silly, but I get the feeling that the James cowl will cool the
>engine better (and look cooler!)
>
>cj
>#40410
>fuse
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:10 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Will James cowl plug for RV-10
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
>I just received several pics of the cowl plug that Will has been working
>
>on for the RV-10 w/ BPE cold air induction, There are too many pics to
>include in this post and in deferrance to those wth dial-up. So I'm
>posting them at my web site http://deemsrv10.com/ go to the photo
>albums and then look for the Will James Cowl folder. (They are being
>published as I type this).
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Fuse/Panel/Finishing
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Lycoming Thunderbolt Factory FFW "Kit" for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
I am working with the Lycoming Thunderbolt Experimental Engine Shop to
develop an engine and a firewall forward "Kit" for the RV-10.
They are interested in what the RV-10 builders would want in this "Kit".
Some options are:
IO-540 parallel valve @ 260 to 300+ bhp
IO-580 angle valve @ 315 to 340+ bhp
TIO-540 parallel valve @ 260 to 300+ bhp
TIO-360 angle valve @ 230 to 260 bhp
or......?
They have all the production Lycoming parts to mix and match plus any after
market parts.
They are also working with Sam James on a Cowl & Cooling Plenum to fit the
engine of choice.
What else would you like to see in a factory supplied "Kit"?
Prop, Cooler, Hoses, Mounts, Filter, Sensors, Engine Monitor, Electronic Ign
and/or FI, etc.....
ERic--
40014
FFW
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