Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:17 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Factory FFW "Kit" for RV-10 (James Hein)
2. 03:44 AM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Factory FFW "Kit" for RV-10 (David Maib)
3. 03:51 AM - Re: LED Nav Lights (Russell Daves)
4. 05:26 AM - Re: Will James cowl plug for RV-10 (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
5. 07:38 AM - Re: HS-1008L/R Brackets (johngoodman)
6. 11:20 AM - Re: Number of 10 tails? (Albert Gardner)
7. 11:26 AM - Re: Will James cowl plug for RV-10 (John Hasbrouck)
8. 11:42 AM - Re: Number of 10 tails? (John Jessen)
9. 12:13 PM - Re: Number of 10 tails? (Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX)
10. 12:39 PM - Re: Number of 10 tails? (John Jessen)
11. 01:30 PM - Re: Number of 10 tails? (Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX)
12. 02:55 PM - Can't get through except by replying. (Jesse Saint)
13. 04:34 PM - Re: Can't get through except by replying. (John Hasbrouck)
14. 05:12 PM - Cylinder head temps (Bill DeRouchey)
15. 05:28 PM - Re: Number of 10 tails? ()
16. 05:48 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (Mark Ritter)
17. 05:58 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (linn Walters)
18. 06:05 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (Marcus Cooper)
19. 06:14 PM - Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Factory FFW "Kit" for RV-10 (EFDsteve@aol.com)
20. 06:17 PM - Re: Number of 10 tails? (Rob Wright)
21. 06:21 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (John W. Cox)
22. 06:33 PM - Re: Number of 10 tails? ()
23. 06:37 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps ()
24. 07:01 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (JSMcGrew@aol.com)
25. 07:13 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (linn Walters)
26. 07:23 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (Rob Wright)
27. 07:31 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (John W. Cox)
28. 07:41 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (John W. Cox)
29. 07:50 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (John W. Cox)
30. 07:57 PM - Re: Cylinder head temps (John Dunne)
31. 08:40 PM - I'm back (tdtpilot@aim.com)
32. 09:57 PM - Re: I'm back (Sean Stephens)
33. 11:01 PM - Tru Trak Pitch Servo (John Dunne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Factory FFW "Kit" for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: James Hein <n8vim@arrl.net>
How about a price less than that of the complete airframe?
-Jim 40384
Eric Parlow wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
>
> I am working with the Lycoming Thunderbolt Experimental Engine Shop to
> develop an engine and a firewall forward "Kit" for the RV-10.
>
> They are interested in what the RV-10 builders would want in this "Kit".
>
> Some options are:
> IO-540 parallel valve @ 260 to 300+ bhp
> IO-580 angle valve @ 315 to 340+ bhp
> TIO-540 parallel valve @ 260 to 300+ bhp
> TIO-360 angle valve @ 230 to 260 bhp
> or......?
> They have all the production Lycoming parts to mix and match plus any
> after market parts.
> They are also working with Sam James on a Cowl & Cooling Plenum to fit
> the engine of choice.
> What else would you like to see in a factory supplied "Kit"?
> Prop, Cooler, Hoses, Mounts, Filter, Sensors, Engine Monitor,
> Electronic Ign and/or FI, etc.....
>
> ERic--
> 40014
> FFW
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Factory FFW "Kit" for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
I would pretty much want the whole "soup to nuts" FF kit similar to
Van's with the IO-540 parallel valve setup. Would be interested in
seeing the TIO-360 setup as well. Sam James cowl and plenum would be
a big plus!
David Maib
40559
On Sep 18, 2006, at 10:12 PM, Eric Parlow wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
I am working with the Lycoming Thunderbolt Experimental Engine Shop
to develop an engine and a firewall forward "Kit" for the RV-10.
They are interested in what the RV-10 builders would want in this "Kit".
Some options are:
IO-540 parallel valve @ 260 to 300+ bhp
IO-580 angle valve @ 315 to 340+ bhp
TIO-540 parallel valve @ 260 to 300+ bhp
TIO-360 angle valve @ 230 to 260 bhp
or......?
They have all the production Lycoming parts to mix and match plus any
after market parts.
They are also working with Sam James on a Cowl & Cooling Plenum to
fit the engine of choice.
What else would you like to see in a factory supplied "Kit"?
Prop, Cooler, Hoses, Mounts, Filter, Sensors, Engine Monitor,
Electronic Ign and/or FI, etc.....
ERic--
40014
FFW
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: LED Nav Lights |
I have LED/Strobes with Van's landing light kit on N710RV (flying). I
am not very good at posting pictures to Matronics but if you want a
couple contact me direct at dav1111 at cox.net.
Best regards,
Russ Daves
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Wright
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 7:28 PM
Subject: RV10-List: LED Nav Lights
Anyone install the CreativAir LED/Strobe combo lights? I'm installing
both the LED/Strobe combo as well as the Van's Ldg Light kit, so looking
for ideas on how to fit it all in there.
Rob Wright
#392
Message 4
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| Subject: | Will James cowl plug for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
One thing to note is Will mentioned in the original email that he still
had to do some fairing work but it is definitely looking good.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Building on hold
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 7:54 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Will James cowl plug for RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Will has hit a home run with this latest variant. Early pics showed he
had missed the LoPresti philosophy of location of induction near the
prop arch in a geometric plane. He has corrected that early variant. I
give now give him a 93 score of 100. Before, I was ranking it at a 75.
Maybe his lay-up is even better than the factory offering.
The ballistic/atheistic style of the spinner, the aerodynamic detail
(NACA)of the lower cowl, the circular (non rectangular) upper inlets for
upper deck differential pressure capture, the side angled design of the
induction inlet for High Alpha climb profile are winners (IMHO). It
looks faster just sitting in storage.
With Monty's Engine Magic, John's Tuned exhaust design, Scott's ceramic
tube coating idea and forward facing BPE Cold Air, this is going to be a
winner and a head turner on future production RV-10s. Now to just lay
in batts of Zetex thermal insulation to protect the matrix and some of
the latent cooling issues will reduce to a distant memory. With a
redesigned mount for proper airflow through the oil cooler and this
could be perfection in function. If he could only lay-up carbon fiber
to reduce weight further and a lower NACA duct for alternate air, I
think I would be in ecstasy tonight. Now, could I just dream that it
could also handle a TSIO-550 or AEIO-580???? ;) The Rocket owners are
loosing their grip on the pedestal position. Better hold on tight. "Are
we there yet?"
John Cox
Do not Archive - and thanks for the posting to the picture source. The
download is worth the time.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Will James cowl plug for RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I just received several pics of the cowl plug that Will has been working
on for the RV-10 w/ BPE cold air induction, There are too many pics to
include in this post and in deferrance to those wth dial-up. So I'm
posting them at my web site http://deemsrv10.com/ go to the photo
albums and then look for the Will James Cowl folder. (They are being
published as I type this).
Deems Davis # 406
Fuse/Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: HS-1008L/R Brackets |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
wv4i(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
> Take care to note that dimensions on these angled aluminum parts go from
> 1.5" on the long side end to 1.5" at angle to 1 21/32" at short side
> end. Also, note that the flare is only on one side of short angle side,
> not both. Not a big deal if caught early. Note that Air Parts has more
> AA6-187-3x3, as well as Van's, hi.....
>
> Link McGarity
> #40622
>
> Thanks to Deems Davis' site for great pics of these parts (images 1,4,5):
>
> http://www.deemsrv10.com/album/CNC%20Parts/index.html
Luckily, Van's provides enough AA6... to make one more (g).
John
--------
#40572 Empennage
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62514#62514
Message 6
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| Subject: | Number of 10 tails? |
The Oregon Aero seats in my finish kit had s/n 314. Do you suppose that
corresponds in any way to the number of finish kits delivered?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
40-422
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Will James cowl plug for RV-10 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
Guys, this is off topic but it is the only way I can get through to the
list. I've been unable to post directly to the list and e-mails to the
webmaster have gone unanswered. The only way to get through is by replying
to previous posts. Any one with suggestions for correcting this problem?
BTW: the James cowl is awesome!
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 8
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| Subject: | Number of 10 tails? |
That would be great if there were that many coming on line...
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
The Oregon Aero seats in my finish kit had s/n 314. Do you suppose that
corresponds in any way to the number of finish kits delivered?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
40-422
Message 9
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| Subject: | Number of 10 tails? |
John,
I ordered my empacone on the 12th and ABF says it will here on Thursday.
Don't have have a clue as to what my kit number is though. Is it
listed somewhere?
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
That would be great if there were that many coming on line...
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert
Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
The Oregon Aero seats in my finish kit had s/n 314. Do you suppose that
corresponds in any way to the number of finish kits delivered?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
40-422
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 10
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| Subject: | Number of 10 tails? |
It's your builder number on your receipt
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stovall Todd Lt
Col AF/A4RX
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
John,
I ordered my empacone on the 12th and ABF says it will here on Thursday.
Don't have have a clue as to what my kit number is though. Is it listed
somewhere?
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:42 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
That would be great if there were that many coming on line...
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 11:19 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
The Oregon Aero seats in my finish kit had s/n 314. Do you suppose that
corresponds in any way to the number of finish kits delivered?
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
40-422
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 11
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| Subject: | Number of 10 tails? |
OK. My builder number is 40631.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Number of 10 tails?
From: John Jessen (
<mailto:jjessen@rcn.com?subject=RE:%20Number%20of%2010%20tails?&replyto
=009601c6dc23$3fb217c0$0200a8c0@T42> jjessen@rcn.com)
Date: Tue Sep 19 - 12:39 PM
It's your builder number on your receipt
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com?subject=RE:%20Number%20of%
2010%20tails?&replyto=009601c6dc23$3fb217c0$0200a8c0@T42>
[mailto: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
<mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com?subject=RE:%20Number%20of%
2010%20tails?&replyto=009601c6dc23$3fb217c0$0200a8c0@T42> ] On Behalf
Of Stovall Todd Lt
Col AF/A4RX
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:13 PM
<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com?subject=RE:%20Number%20of%2010%20tails?
&replyto=009601c6dc23$3fb217c0$0200a8c0@T42>
Subject: RE: Number of 10 tails?
John,
I ordered my empacone on the 12th and ABF says it will here on Thursday.
Don't have have a clue as to what my kit number is though. Is it listed
somewhere?
Todd
Message 12
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| Subject: | Can't get through except by replying. |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Do you have more than one active e-mail address in your e-mail program? If
so, and the one you signed up on is not your default, but you are setup to
reply using the account that it was received on, that could make a
difference. I have about 8 addresses that I use through Outlook, and I have
seen that problem before.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Will James cowl plug for RV-10
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
Guys, this is off topic but it is the only way I can get through to the
list. I've been unable to post directly to the list and e-mails to the
webmaster have gone unanswered. The only way to get through is by replying
to previous posts. Any one with suggestions for correcting this problem?
BTW: the James cowl is awesome!
John Hasbrouck
#40264
--
--
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Can't get through except by replying. |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
Jesse,
Nope. Same e-mail address for last five years and no others (
boring ). Can't get through to Matt either. Can't figure it out. Correct
address for matronics in address book, it's worked many times before.
John Hasbrouck
Message 14
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low. Engine monitor
is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp limit to 435F. Problem
is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all the others and will quickly
reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day climbing at 120mph, 25"/2600 rpm.
Pushing the nose down to 140mph and backing off the power will of course help.
But, its still quite a dance to just keep the temps from increasing and the aircraft
climbing.
The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From this I assume
the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to another pilot at Vans
Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360. His high EGT's were also in
the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of 1525.
Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot tunnel problem.
Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT) does not seem to
make much difference.
What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such that the
#1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my engine monitor
out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb a normal activity or never
of interest?
Would appreciate your experiences,
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
flying fast, climbing slow
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Number of 10 tails? |
Now Todd, aka Lt. Col. Stoval,
RV-O.E.R. # 1
Task #1 : Identify builder number.
Result: Marginal
For a a perfect score you should have eliminated the "OK" from your
response.
This was just many of more tests to come, you just barely passed this
one.
Now as senior leadership, all of us retired USAF guys and other vets are
gonna make you tow the line.
Don't screw up and let us down!! ;)
Your in good company, welcome aboard (oops Navy term)
And hey, if RV's are good enough for a retired Chief of Staff...they are
good enough for all of us right!!!
Rick S.
40185
Just a pulling wires
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
OK. My builder number is 40631.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Number of 10 tails?
From: John Jessen (jjessen@rcn.com)
Date: Tue Sep 19 - 12:39 PM
It's your builder number on your receipt
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stovall Todd
Lt
Col AF/A4RX
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: Number of 10 tails?
John,
I ordered my empacone on the 12th and ABF says it will here on Thursday.
Don't have have a clue as to what my kit number is though. Is it listed
somewhere?
Todd
Message 16
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>
Bill,
The CHT on cyl. #1 and #2 were running in the 415 - 420 degree range with
the other cyl running under 400 degrees. I took the air dams off and the
CHT on 1 and 2 are now in line with cyl 3, 4 ,5 and 6 at approx 365 - 375
degrees. I had a high EGT on a couple of cyl but after cleaning the
injectors its no longer a problem. EGT's are running well below 1400 so I'm
happy.
I believe Lycoming recommends keeping the CHT under 400 and the EGT under
1400. I have right at 30 hours on my IO-540 also with very low oil
consumption. Oil sample analysis looked good at 25 hour oil change.
Mark
>From: Bill DeRouchey <billderou@yahoo.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
>Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:11:14 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low. Engine
>monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp limit to 435F.
>Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all the others and
>will quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day climbing at
>120mph, 25"/2600 rpm. Pushing the nose down to 140mph and backing off the
>power will of course help. But, its still quite a dance to just keep the
>temps from increasing and the aircraft climbing.
>
> The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From this
>I assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to another pilot
>at Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360. His high EGT's
>were also in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of 1525.
>
> Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot tunnel
>problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT) does not
>seem to make much difference.
>
> What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such
>that the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my engine
>monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb a normal
>activity or never of interest?
>
> Would appreciate your experiences,
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com
> flying fast, climbing slow
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder head temps |
Bill, put a light in the lower cowl and look down through the head fins
near the spark plug. There may be mold flashing blocking the airflow.
A round jewelers file or even a long drill will clean it up. Hope this
helps. I know some smaller lycs have this problem but don't know if it
shows up on the 540s.
Linn
do not archive
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low.
> Engine monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp
> limit to 435F. Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than
> all the others and will quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree
> ambient day climbing at 120mph, 25"/2600 rpm. Pushing the nose down to
> 140mph and backing off the power will of course help. But, its still
> quite a dance to just keep the temps from increasing and the aircraft
> climbing.
>
> The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From
> this I assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to
> another pilot at Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is
> 360. His high EGT's were also in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing
> EGT's of 1525.
>
> Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot
> tunnel problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250
> EGT) does not seem to make much difference.
>
> What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such
> that the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my
> engine monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb
> a normal activity or never of interest?
>
> Would appreciate your experiences,
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
> flying fast, climbing slow
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
Bill,
Before you start cutting, I recommend you swap the #1 and 3 CHT sensors.
I have the exact same situation and found after switching the probes the #1
position on the monitor was still hot which means it's the sensor/monitor
not the cylinder. I called GRT and it turns out they calibrate the monitor
there and are sending me another monitor to test if I get the same readings.
If I do, then the probe is probably off and there is no way to calibrate it
and I'll get a new probe. Since we both have the same setup and are getting
the same readings, I wonder if some monitors went out with bad calibration
on the #1 CHT position.
I'll update as soon as I get the new monitor regarding any changes.
Marcus
Do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 8:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low. Engine
monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp limit to 435F.
Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all the others and
will quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day climbing at 120mph,
25"/2600 rpm. Pushing the nose down to 140mph and backing off the power will
of course help. But, its still quite a dance to just keep the temps from
increasing and the aircraft climbing.
The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From this I
assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to another pilot at
Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360. His high EGT's were
also in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of 1525.
Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot tunnel
problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT) does not
seem to make much difference.
What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such that
the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my engine
monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb a normal
activity or never of interest?
Would appreciate your experiences,
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
flying fast, climbing slow
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Thunderbolt Factory FFW "Kit" for RV-10 |
Given the design limitation of a 260 hp engine for the RV-10, I don't really
want to exceed that, so for my money, any new offering from Lycoming's
Thunderbolt division would best offer:
lighter weight
better fuel consumption
extended TBO
FADEC
easier starting
less vibration
lower cost
Based on the description of the Thunderbolt division, my guess is that
they're only interested in getting more hp out of the existing engines and won't
be trying to achieve any of the above traits.
Steve Weinstock
40230
do not archive
--> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
I would pretty much want the whole "soup to nuts" FF kit similar to
Van's with the IO-540 parallel valve setup. Would be interested in
seeing the TIO-360 setup as well. Sam James cowl and plenum would be
a big plus!
David Maib
40559
On Sep 18, 2006, at 10:12 PM, Eric Parlow wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
I am working with the Lycoming Thunderbolt Experimental Engine Shop
to develop an engine and a firewall forward "Kit" for the RV-10.
They are interested in what the RV-10 builders would want in this "Kit".
Some options are:
IO-540 parallel valve @ 260 to 300+ bhp
IO-580 angle valve @ 315 to 340+ bhp
TIO-540 parallel valve @ 260 to 300+ bhp
TIO-360 angle valve @ 230 to 260 bhp
or......?
They have all the production Lycoming parts to mix and match plus any
after market parts.
They are also working with Sam James on a Cowl & Cooling Plenum to
fit the engine of choice.
What else would you like to see in a factory supplied "Kit"?
Prop, Cooler, Hoses, Mounts, Filter, Sensors, Engine Monitor,
Electronic Ign and/or FI, etc.....
ERic--
40014
FFW
Message 20
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| Subject: | Number of 10 tails? |
Uh, oh. Be careful, or the grunts will have to chime in and say that it's
"toe the line," not your "tow.." Towing the line might get heavy.
Rob Wright
#392
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ricksked@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
Now Todd, aka Lt. Col. Stoval,
RV-O.E.R. # 1
Task #1 : Identify builder number.
Result: Marginal
For a a perfect score you should have eliminated the "OK" from your
response.
This was just many of more tests to come, you just barely passed this one.
Now as senior leadership, all of us retired USAF guys and other vets are
gonna make you tow the line.
Don't screw up and let us down!! ;)
Your in good company, welcome aboard (oops Navy term)
And hey, if RV's are good enough for a retired Chief of Staff...they are
good enough for all of us right!!!
Rick S.
40185
Just a pulling wires
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Stovall <mailto:Todd.Stovall@pentagon.af.mil> Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
OK. My builder number is 40631.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
RE: Number of 10 tails?
From:
John Jessen ( <mailto:jjessen@rcn.com> jjessen@rcn.com)
Date:
Tue Sep 19 - 12:39 PM
It's your builder number on your receipt
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stovall Todd Lt
Col AF/A4RX
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 12:13 PM
<mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com?subject=RE:%20Number%20of%2010%20tails?&repl
yto=009601c6dc23$3fb217c0$0200a8c0@T42>
Subject: RE: Number of 10 tails?
John,
I ordered my empacone on the 12th and ABF says it will here on Thursday.
Don't have have a clue as to what my kit number is though. Is it listed
somewhere?
Todd
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 21
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
George Braly posted to the Lancair group just yesterday the
controversial position on the importance of CHT limits of 430F. It was
not about EGTs which are an indication of power output and which side of
the F/A mixture you lean to. As Tim knows, I don't need to start another
war on the detrimental effects of aluminum degradation at higher
temperatures (Mine) and the advantage of convective cooling of aluminum
cylinder heads in the time given during climbs.
But here is a point to ponder between pounding rivets. One cylinder
rests in the Lee (sheltered behind the front baffle) of the prevailing
ram air flow. Another is safely in the middle with a balanced and
reasonable flow on the top, the aft and the forward fins getting plenty
of cooling. A Third is parked at the point of turbidity where builders
think air will willingly make a violent high velocity 90 degree bend in
direction without interruption of flow. That location also has an
aluminum shield reflecting heat back onto it and defeating convective
cooling. Hence, George's (GAMI and Cirrus Designs Zen like pursuit of
effective flow) using modified baffles, gaskets and donuts. Airflow
through a rectangular opening is not as effective in flow as a perfect
circle. (that is contrary to factory design and opinion) "Just built
it". A Bell curve design is great. The goal should be the reduction of
turbidity, the manipulation and control of pressure, the application of
cooler ram air for a longer period in contact with the target material
to allow more convective transfer and longer component life.
It is only a premise (Mine) that the factory stock cowl leaves a lot of
points on the table for reduced aperture area in a High Alpha, prolonged
climb. As turbidity is introduced, the higher pressure air flows
backward (just like a fire hose in your mouth) and goes forward and
escapes right back out the front nostrils rather than being caressed
past all the waiting cooling fins - equitably. Your goal, is to move
the sheltered cylinders into the flow path (oh yeh - they are fixed),
reduce turbidity and manage the temperature and pressure differentials
between the high and the low (the Upper and the Lower cowl). Add to it,
the gymnastics of demanding rather than asking the ram ambient air to do
a 90 degree course reversal and then flow down, then forward 45 degrees
out of the oil cooler into the path (90 degrees) of the converging
convective air flowing down through those fins and you might perceive
the need to assist (Augment) with the use of more efficiently escaping
of exhaust gases to help remove heated air and scavenge with lower
pressure to improve cooling. Cool Fins, Cool Oil and keep Tunnels Cool.
The Wholly Cowl is a big leap in the correct direction. (IMHO). George
got 23 Lancair guys to invest an entire weekend in Ada, Oklahoma (last
year) just to study for those two days this esoteric philosophy. George
gave Cirrus the highest marks on temperature extraction from their
Continental IO-550s. He makes quite a living improving Beechcraft.
What can be done differently. In the high nose attitude, the ducts are
(should be) installed to maximize flow during time of greatest cooling
need (80 degrees ambient and slower forward air speeds). The entry ramp
should be aerodynamically modified to reduce turbidity (Lopresti) and
help the eldest child up front. The baffles are improved, the flow is
directed and the back wall is caressingly coerced from aft travel to
downward travel of the baby cylinder as well as cooperating with that
perfectly well balanced (you can't do a thing for) middle child with the
cool attitude in the middle. Anyone see Andy Chiavetta's carbon fiber
ductwork for Darryl Greenmeyers screaming Legacy at Reno.
Distribution +/- 10 degrees between cylinder readouts is the desire.
Are your injectors and cylinders flow balanced (See Monty Barrett at
BPE)? Are the probes confirmed as working correctly? Do you know the
cost of doing a Top Overhaul if you were off and George is right about
430? This is about Experimentation.
OOPs, I just fell off the soapbox... sorry
John Cox
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
DeRouchey
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low. Engine
monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp limit to
435F. Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all the
others and will quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day
climbing at 120mph, 25"/2600 rpm. Pushing the nose down to 140mph and
backing off the power will of course help. But, its still quite a dance
to just keep the temps from increasing and the aircraft climbing.
The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From this
I assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to another
pilot at Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360. His
high EGT's were also in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of 1525.
Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot tunnel
problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT) does
not seem to make much difference.
What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such
that the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my
engine monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb a
normal activity or never of interest?
Would appreciate your experiences,
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
flying fast, climbing slow
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Number of 10 tails? |
LOL...I stand corrected....My appoligies to the Marines for my lack of
Marine lingo. My bad! Darn spelling checker.
Oh yeah sorry for miss spelling Stoval "L"
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Wright
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
Uh, oh. Be careful, or the grunts will have to chime in and say that
it's "toe the line," not your "tow.." Towing the line might get heavy.
Rob Wright
#392
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ricksked@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:29 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
Now Todd, aka Lt. Col. Stoval,
RV-O.E.R. # 1
Task #1 : Identify builder number.
Result: Marginal
For a a perfect score you should have eliminated the "OK" from your
response.
This was just many of more tests to come, you just barely passed this
one.
Now as senior leadership, all of us retired USAF guys and other vets
are gonna make you tow the line.
Don't screw up and let us down!! ;)
Your in good company, welcome aboard (oops Navy term)
And hey, if RV's are good enough for a retired Chief of Staff...they
are good enough for all of us right!!!
Rick S.
40185
Just a pulling wires
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Number of 10 tails?
OK. My builder number is 40631.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject:
RE: Number of 10 tails?
From:
John Jessen (jjessen@rcn.com)
Date:
Tue Sep 19 - 12:39 PM
It's your builder number on your receipt do not archive _____ From:
owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matron
ics.com] On Behalf Of Stovall Todd LtCol AF/A4RXSent: Tuesday, September
19, 2006 12:13 PMTo: rv10-list@matronics.comSubject: RE: Number of 10
tails? John,I ordered my empacone on the 12th and ABF says it will here
on Thursday.Don't have have a clue as to what my kit number is though.
Is it listedsomewhere? Todd s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Cylinder head temps |
John, what's "turbidity" I take you for a smart guy but sometimes I
think you make words up. ;)
(I looked it up FWIW)
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
George Braly posted to the Lancair group just yesterday the
controversial position on the importance of CHT limits of 430F. It was
not about EGTs which are an indication of power output and which side of
the F/A mixture you lean to. As Tim knows, I don't need to start another
war on the detrimental effects of aluminum degradation at higher
temperatures (Mine) and the advantage of convective cooling of aluminum
cylinder heads in the time given during climbs.
But here is a point to ponder between pounding rivets. One cylinder
rests in the Lee (sheltered behind the front baffle) of the prevailing
ram air flow. Another is safely in the middle with a balanced and
reasonable flow on the top, the aft and the forward fins getting plenty
of cooling. A Third is parked at the point of turbidity where builders
think air will willingly make a violent high velocity 90 degree bend in
direction without interruption of flow. That location also has an
aluminum shield reflecting heat back onto it and defeating convective
cooling. Hence, George's (GAMI and Cirrus Designs Zen like pursuit of
effective flow) using modified baffles, gaskets and donuts. Airflow
through a rectangular opening is not as effective in flow as a perfect
circle. (that is contrary to factory design and opinion) "Just built
it". A Bell curve design is great. The goal should be the reduction of
turbidity, the manipulation and control of pressure, the application of
cooler ram air for a longer period in contact with the target material
to allow more convective transfer and longer component life.
It is only a premise (Mine) that the factory stock cowl leaves a lot
of points on the table for reduced aperture area in a High Alpha,
prolonged climb. As turbidity is introduced, the higher pressure air
flows backward (just like a fire hose in your mouth) and goes forward
and escapes right back out the front nostrils rather than being caressed
past all the waiting cooling fins - equitably. Your goal, is to move
the sheltered cylinders into the flow path (oh yeh - they are fixed),
reduce turbidity and manage the temperature and pressure differentials
between the high and the low (the Upper and the Lower cowl). Add to it,
the gymnastics of demanding rather than asking the ram ambient air to do
a 90 degree course reversal and then flow down, then forward 45 degrees
out of the oil cooler into the path (90 degrees) of the converging
convective air flowing down through those fins and you might perceive
the need to assist (Augment) with the use of more efficiently escaping
of exhaust gases to help remove heated air and scavenge with lower
pressure to improve cooling. Cool Fins, Cool Oil and keep Tunnels Cool.
The Wholly Cowl is a big leap in the correct direction. (IMHO).
George got 23 Lancair guys to invest an entire weekend in Ada, Oklahoma
(last year) just to study for those two days this esoteric philosophy.
George gave Cirrus the highest marks on temperature extraction from
their Continental IO-550s. He makes quite a living improving
Beechcraft.
What can be done differently. In the high nose attitude, the ducts
are (should be) installed to maximize flow during time of greatest
cooling need (80 degrees ambient and slower forward air speeds). The
entry ramp should be aerodynamically modified to reduce turbidity
(Lopresti) and help the eldest child up front. The baffles are
improved, the flow is directed and the back wall is caressingly coerced
from aft travel to downward travel of the baby cylinder as well as
cooperating with that perfectly well balanced (you can't do a thing for)
middle child with the cool attitude in the middle. Anyone see Andy
Chiavetta's carbon fiber ductwork for Darryl Greenmeyers screaming
Legacy at Reno.
Distribution +/- 10 degrees between cylinder readouts is the desire.
Are your injectors and cylinders flow balanced (See Monty Barrett at
BPE)? Are the probes confirmed as working correctly? Do you know the
cost of doing a Top Overhaul if you were off and George is right about
430? This is about Experimentation.
OOPs, I just fell off the soapbox. sorry
John Cox
Do not Archive
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
DeRouchey
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:11 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low.
Engine monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp
limit to 435F. Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all
the others and will quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day
climbing at 120mph, 25"/2600 rpm. Pushing the nose down to 140mph and
backing off the power will of course help. But, its still quite a dance
to just keep the temps from increasing and the aircraft climbing.
The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From
this I assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to
another pilot at Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360.
His high EGT's were also in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of
1525.
Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot
tunnel problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT)
does not seem to make much difference.
What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such
that the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my
engine monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb a
normal activity or never of interest?
Would appreciate your experiences,
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
flying fast, climbing slow
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder head temps |
Bill,
I had very similar CHT issues initially. My #1 cylinder was (and still is) a
bit hotter than the others. I had problems with CHT over temps in a climb.
The first thing I looked at was the entrance vs exit area of the cowl. I've
heard recommendations that the cowl exit area should be 120 to 133% of the inlet
area. This is because the air is being heated and expands on its way
through. I looked at some rough estimates on the stock design and it is somewhere
between 110 and 120% depending on how you estimate it. Therefore, I took the
approach of increasing the exit area to about 133% of the inlet (see my post
titled: My tunnel heat fix for details). Although it did reduce the heat in my
tunnel, the reason for and result of the change was to reduce my CHTs in a
climb.
After the fix I climbed from T/O to 11500' full power at 105 knots and never
saw CHTs above about 420 or so.
I am reluctant to trim the #1 cylinder baffle air dam until I fly in some
cold weather this winter. I don't want to create a winter over cooling problem
while trying to fix a summer over heating problem.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 9/19/2006 8:14:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
billderou@yahoo.com writes:
I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low. Engine
monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp limit to 435F.
Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all the others and will
quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day climbing at 120mph, 25"/2600
rpm. Pushing the nose down to 140mph and backing off the power will of
course help. But, its still quite a dance to just keep the temps from increasing
and the aircraft climbing.
The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From this I
assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to another pilot at
Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360. His high EGT's were also
in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of 1525.
Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot tunnel
problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT) does not seem
to make much difference.
What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such that
the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my engine
monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb a normal activity
or
never of interest?
Would appreciate your experiences,
Bill DeRouchey
_billderou@yahoo.com_ (mailto:billderou@yahoo.com)
flying fast, climbing slow
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cylinder head temps |
He didn't make it up, Rick ..... just misused it. Turbidity refers to
the clarity of water. If you mangle 'turbulence' bad enough ..... I
guess you get 'turbidity'! :-D
Linn
ricksked@earthlink.net wrote:
> John, what's "turbidity" I take you for a smart guy but sometimes I
> think you make words up. ;)
>
> (I looked it up FWIW)
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
>
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:20 PM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
>
> George Braly posted to the Lancair group just yesterday the
> controversial position on the importance of CHT limits of 430F. It
> was not about EGTs which are an indication of power output and
> which side of the F/A mixture you lean to. As Tim knows, I don't
> need to start another war on the detrimental effects of aluminum
> degradation at higher temperatures (Mine) and the advantage of
> convective cooling of aluminum cylinder heads in the time given
> during climbs.
>
>
>
> But here is a point to ponder between pounding rivets. One
> cylinder rests in the Lee (sheltered behind the front baffle) of
> the prevailing ram air flow. Another is safely in the middle with
> a balanced and reasonable flow on the top, the aft and the forward
> fins getting plenty of cooling. A Third is parked at the point of
> turbidity where builders think air will willingly make a violent
> high velocity 90 degree bend in direction without interruption of
> flow. That location also has an aluminum shield reflecting heat
> back onto it and defeating convective cooling. Hence, George's
> (GAMI and Cirrus Designs Zen like pursuit of effective flow) using
> modified baffles, gaskets and donuts. Airflow through a
> rectangular opening is not as effective in flow as a perfect
> circle. (that is contrary to factory design and opinion) "Just
> built it". A Bell curve design is great. The goal should be the
> reduction of turbidity, the manipulation and control of pressure,
> the application of cooler ram air for a longer period in contact
> with the target material to allow more convective transfer and
> longer component life.
>
>
>
> It is only a premise (Mine) that the factory stock cowl leaves a
> lot of points on the table for reduced aperture area in a High
> Alpha, prolonged climb. As turbidity is introduced, the higher
> pressure air flows backward (just like a fire hose in your mouth)
> and goes forward and escapes right back out the front nostrils
> rather than being caressed past all the waiting cooling fins -
> equitably. Your goal, is to move the sheltered cylinders into the
> flow path (oh yeh - they are fixed), reduce turbidity and manage
> the temperature and pressure differentials between the high and
> the low (the Upper and the Lower cowl). Add to it, the gymnastics
> of demanding rather than asking the ram ambient air to do a 90
> degree course reversal and then flow down, then forward 45 degrees
> out of the oil cooler into the path (90 degrees) of the converging
> convective air flowing down through those fins and you might
> perceive the need to assist (Augment) with the use of more
> efficiently escaping of exhaust gases to help remove heated air
> and scavenge with lower pressure to improve cooling. Cool Fins,
> Cool Oil and keep Tunnels Cool.
>
>
>
> The Wholly Cowl is a big leap in the correct direction. (IMHO).
> George got 23 Lancair guys to invest an entire weekend in Ada,
> Oklahoma (last year) just to study for those two days this
> esoteric philosophy. George gave Cirrus the highest marks on
> temperature extraction from their Continental IO-550s. He makes
> quite a living improving Beechcraft.
>
>
>
> What can be done differently. In the high nose attitude, the
> ducts are (should be) installed to maximize flow during time of
> greatest cooling need (80 degrees ambient and slower forward air
> speeds). The entry ramp should be aerodynamically modified to
> reduce turbidity (Lopresti) and help the eldest child up front.
> The baffles are improved, the flow is directed and the back wall
> is caressingly coerced from aft travel to downward travel of the
> baby cylinder as well as cooperating with that perfectly well
> balanced (you can't do a thing for) middle child with the cool
> attitude in the middle. Anyone see Andy Chiavetta's carbon fiber
> ductwork for Darryl Greenmeyers screaming Legacy at Reno.
>
>
>
> Distribution +/- 10 degrees between cylinder readouts is the
> desire. Are your injectors and cylinders flow balanced (See Monty
> Barrett at BPE)? Are the probes confirmed as working correctly?
> Do you know the cost of doing a Top Overhaul if you were off and
> George is right about 430? This is about Experimentation.
>
>
>
>
>
> OOPs, I just fell off the soapbox... sorry
>
>
>
> John Cox
>
> Do not Archive
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
> DeRouchey
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:11 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
>
>
>
> I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low.
> Engine monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head
> temp limit to 435F. Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees
> hotter than all the others and will quickly reach its limit on an
> 80 degree ambient day climbing at 120mph, 25"/2600 rpm. Pushing
> the nose down to 140mph and backing off the power will of course
> help. But, its still quite a dance to just keep the temps from
> increasing and the aircraft climbing.
>
>
>
> The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From
> this I assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to
> another pilot at Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen
> is 360. His high EGT's were also in the low 1300, whereas I am
> seeing EGT's of 1525.
>
>
>
> Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot
> tunnel problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately
> (~1250 EGT) does not seem to make much difference.
>
>
>
> What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution
> such that the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT &
> EGT is my engine monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's
> during climb a normal activity or never of interest?
>
>
>
> Would appreciate your experiences,
>
> Bill DeRouchey
>
> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
>
> flying fast, climbing slow
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
John or other engine guys,
Can you really overcool an engine? I understand about shock cooling the
insides but keeping your whole engine in a nice cool temperature environment
sounds like a worthwhile goose chase. I'd keep mine at room temperature if
I could help it for tolerances, TBO, etc.
Rob Wright
#392
Dreaming about hooking a big vacuum to the lower cowl........
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
Bill,
I had very similar CHT issues initially. My #1 cylinder was (and still is) a
bit hotter than the others. I had problems with CHT over temps in a climb.
The first thing I looked at was the entrance vs exit area of the cowl. I've
heard recommendations that the cowl exit area should be 120 to 133% of the
inlet area. This is because the air is being heated and expands on its way
through. I looked at some rough estimates on the stock design and it is
somewhere between 110 and 120% depending on how you estimate it. Therefore,
I took the approach of increasing the exit area to about 133% of the inlet
(see my post titled: My tunnel heat fix for details). Although it did reduce
the heat in my tunnel, the reason for and result of the change was to reduce
my CHTs in a climb.
After the fix I climbed from T/O to 11500' full power at 105 knots and never
saw CHTs above about 420 or so.
I am reluctant to trim the #1 cylinder baffle air dam until I fly in some
cold weather this winter. I don't want to create a winter over cooling
problem while trying to fix a summer over heating problem.
Jim
40134
In a message dated 9/19/2006 8:14:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
billderou@yahoo.com writes:
I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low. Engine
monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp limit to 435F.
Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all the others and
will quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day climbing at 120mph,
25"/2600 rpm. Pushing the nose down to 140mph and backing off the power will
of course help. But, its still quite a dance to just keep the temps from
increasing and the aircraft climbing.
The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From this I
assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to another pilot at
Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360. His high EGT's were
also in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of 1525.
Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot tunnel
problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT) does not
seem to make much difference.
What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such that
the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my engine
monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb a normal
activity or never of interest?
Would appreciate your experiences,
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
flying fast, climbing slow
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?RV10-List
.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
ronics.com/">http://wiki.matronics.com
://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 27
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
Probably a misspelled adjective or lost noun for Turbulence. Violently
screwing with mother nature's desire to send air currents to unspeakable
places on their natural course. (Or in my confused mind - characterized
by or producing obscurity by having my Turban rapped too tightly from
all the Islamo-Fascist talk show hosts.)
When an arc curves more than an established number of degrees (I think
its 5 from Hoerner's Fluid Dynamics), The fluid flow dynamics breaks it
loose - turbulence. It creates a consequence - unintended by the
original builder of RV-10s and other exciting aircraft. "Screwing with
Mother Nature while under the cowl". When its on the wing, its called
an Insipid Stall. "PUSH - PUSH - DOWN!"
JC
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ricksked@earthlink.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
John, what's "turbidity" I take you for a smart guy but sometimes I
think you make words up. ;)
(I looked it up FWIW)
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 28
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
Lack of Clarity Linn. It's the Anonym (not Synonym or Homonym) of
Clarity. I thought you knew I have little of it right now. I took a
couple of turns off the turban to find the answer under TURBID.
Deficient in clarity. In this care a disturbance which defeats the use
of air for its intended purpose. Stirred up or Disturbed.
JC
40600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
He didn't make it up, Rick ..... just misused it. Turbidity refers to
the clarity of water. If you mangle 'turbulence' bad enough ..... I
guess you get 'turbidity'! :-D
Linn
ricksked@earthlink.net wrote:
John, what's "turbidity" I take you for a smart guy but sometimes I
think you make words up. ;)
(I looked it up FWIW)
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
George Braly posted to the Lancair group just yesterday the
controversial position on the importance of CHT limits of 430F. It was
not about EGTs which are an indication of power output and which side of
the F/A mixture you lean to. As Tim knows, I don't need to start another
war on the detrimental effects of aluminum degradation at higher
temperatures (Mine) and the advantage of convective cooling of aluminum
cylinder heads in the time given during climbs.
But here is a point to ponder between pounding rivets. One
cylinder rests in the Lee (sheltered behind the front baffle) of the
prevailing ram air flow. Another is safely in the middle with a
balanced and reasonable flow on the top, the aft and the forward fins
getting plenty of cooling. A Third is parked at the point of turbidity
where builders think air will willingly make a violent high velocity 90
degree bend in direction without interruption of flow. That location
also has an aluminum shield reflecting heat back onto it and defeating
convective cooling. Hence, George's (GAMI and Cirrus Designs Zen like
pursuit of effective flow) using modified baffles, gaskets and donuts.
Airflow through a rectangular opening is not as effective in flow as a
perfect circle. (that is contrary to factory design and opinion) "Just
built it". A Bell curve design is great. The goal should be the
reduction of turbidity, the manipulation and control of pressure, the
application of cooler ram air for a longer period in contact with the
target material to allow more convective transfer and longer component
life.
It is only a premise (Mine) that the factory stock cowl leaves a
lot of points on the table for reduced aperture area in a High Alpha,
prolonged climb. As turbidity is introduced, the higher pressure air
flows backward (just like a fire hose in your mouth) and goes forward
and escapes right back out the front nostrils rather than being caressed
past all the waiting cooling fins - equitably. Your goal, is to move
the sheltered cylinders into the flow path (oh yeh - they are fixed),
reduce turbidity and manage the temperature and pressure differentials
between the high and the low (the Upper and the Lower cowl). Add to it,
the gymnastics of demanding rather than asking the ram ambient air to do
a 90 degree course reversal and then flow down, then forward 45 degrees
out of the oil cooler into the path (90 degrees) of the converging
convective air flowing down through those fins and you might perceive
the need to assist (Augment) with the use of more efficiently escaping
of exhaust gases to help remove heated air and scavenge with lower
pressure to improve cooling. Cool Fins, Cool Oil and keep Tunnels Cool.
The Wholly Cowl is a big leap in the correct direction. (IMHO).
George got 23 Lancair guys to invest an entire weekend in Ada, Oklahoma
(last year) just to study for those two days this esoteric philosophy.
George gave Cirrus the highest marks on temperature extraction from
their Continental IO-550s. He makes quite a living improving
Beechcraft.
What can be done differently. In the high nose attitude, the
ducts are (should be) installed to maximize flow during time of greatest
cooling need (80 degrees ambient and slower forward air speeds). The
entry ramp should be aerodynamically modified to reduce turbidity
(Lopresti) and help the eldest child up front. The baffles are
improved, the flow is directed and the back wall is caressingly coerced
from aft travel to downward travel of the baby cylinder as well as
cooperating with that perfectly well balanced (you can't do a thing for)
middle child with the cool attitude in the middle. Anyone see Andy
Chiavetta's carbon fiber ductwork for Darryl Greenmeyers screaming
Legacy at Reno.
Distribution +/- 10 degrees between cylinder readouts is the
desire. Are your injectors and cylinders flow balanced (See Monty
Barrett at BPE)? Are the probes confirmed as working correctly? Do you
know the cost of doing a Top Overhaul if you were off and George is
right about 430? This is about Experimentation.
OOPs, I just fell off the soapbox... sorry
John Cox
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
DeRouchey
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:11 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very
low. Engine monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp
limit to 435F. Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all
the others and will quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day
climbing at 120mph, 25"/2600 rpm. Pushing the nose down to 140mph and
backing off the power will of course help. But, its still quite a dance
to just keep the temps from increasing and the aircraft climbing.
The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest.
>From this I assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to
another pilot at Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360.
His high EGT's were also in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of
1525.
Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot
tunnel problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT)
does not seem to make much difference.
What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp
distribution such that the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my
CHT & EGT is my engine monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's
during climb a normal activity or never of interest?
Would appreciate your experiences,
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
flying fast, climbing slow
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 29
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
Yes but only theoretically. George thinks such things are bunk. Speed
brakes come into play. Most engines need temperature to expand
clearances for proper oil distribution, fuel additive needs it to scarf
lead deposits from spark plugs on Low Idle. Too much, too little, just
right... sound like a Fairy Tale. Extremes and violent swings are to be
avoided except in an Emergency situations.
Tufting the airfoil to locate and correct back-burbles, stagnant zones
and improve (reduce) drag are a commendable pursuit. I am prepared to
finance Randy's fuel bill if he and Rob Hickman have a camera ship
standing by to document a pure "Plans Built RV-10" Test Flight. And it
doesn't qualify as Hot Rodding, yet saves fuel and produces similar
speed results to squeezing 300+ ponies into the RV-10.
#600
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wright
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
John or other engine guys,
Can you really overcool an engine? I understand about shock cooling the
insides but keeping your whole engine in a nice cool temperature
environment sounds like a worthwhile goose chase. I'd keep mine at room
temperature if I could help it for tolerances, TBO, etc.
Rob Wright
#392
Dreaming about hooking a big vacuum to the lower
cowl........................
Message 30
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| Subject: | Cylinder head temps |
...and who said this list was only good for RV building information??
JC is back! Aka the TURBINATOR!
John 40315 Do not archive.
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, 20 September 2006 12:41 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
Lack of Clarity Linn. It's the Anonym (not Synonym or Homonym) of Clarity.
I thought you knew I have little of it right now. I took a couple of turns
off the turban to find the answer under TURBID. Deficient in clarity. In
this care a disturbance which defeats the use of air for its intended
purpose. Stirred up or Disturbed.
JC
40600
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
He didn't make it up, Rick ..... just misused it. Turbidity refers to the
clarity of water. If you mangle 'turbulence' bad enough ..... I guess you
get 'turbidity'! :-D
Linn
ricksked@earthlink.net wrote:
John, what's "turbidity" I take you for a smart guy but sometimes I think
you make words up. ;)
(I looked it up FWIW)
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox <mailto:johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
George Braly posted to the Lancair group just yesterday the controversial
position on the importance of CHT limits of 430F. It was not about EGTs
which are an indication of power output and which side of the F/A mixture
you lean to. As Tim knows, I don't need to start another war on the
detrimental effects of aluminum degradation at higher temperatures (Mine)
and the advantage of convective cooling of aluminum cylinder heads in the
time given during climbs.
But here is a point to ponder between pounding rivets. One cylinder rests
in the Lee (sheltered behind the front baffle) of the prevailing ram air
flow. Another is safely in the middle with a balanced and reasonable flow
on the top, the aft and the forward fins getting plenty of cooling. A Third
is parked at the point of turbidity where builders think air will willingly
make a violent high velocity 90 degree bend in direction without
interruption of flow. That location also has an aluminum shield reflecting
heat back onto it and defeating convective cooling. Hence, George's (GAMI
and Cirrus Designs Zen like pursuit of effective flow) using modified
baffles, gaskets and donuts. Airflow through a rectangular opening is not as
effective in flow as a perfect circle. (that is contrary to factory design
and opinion) "Just built it". A Bell curve design is great. The goal
should be the reduction of turbidity, the manipulation and control of
pressure, the application of cooler ram air for a longer period in contact
with the target material to allow more convective transfer and longer
component life.
It is only a premise (Mine) that the factory stock cowl leaves a lot of
points on the table for reduced aperture area in a High Alpha, prolonged
climb. As turbidity is introduced, the higher pressure air flows backward
(just like a fire hose in your mouth) and goes forward and escapes right
back out the front nostrils rather than being caressed past all the waiting
cooling fins - equitably. Your goal, is to move the sheltered cylinders
into the flow path (oh yeh - they are fixed), reduce turbidity and manage
the temperature and pressure differentials between the high and the low (the
Upper and the Lower cowl). Add to it, the gymnastics of demanding rather
than asking the ram ambient air to do a 90 degree course reversal and then
flow down, then forward 45 degrees out of the oil cooler into the path (90
degrees) of the converging convective air flowing down through those fins
and you might perceive the need to assist (Augment) with the use of more
efficiently escaping of exhaust gases to help remove heated air and scavenge
with lower pressure to improve cooling. Cool Fins, Cool Oil and keep
Tunnels Cool.
The Wholly Cowl is a big leap in the correct direction. (IMHO). George got
23 Lancair guys to invest an entire weekend in Ada, Oklahoma (last year)
just to study for those two days this esoteric philosophy. George gave
Cirrus the highest marks on temperature extraction from their Continental
IO-550s. He makes quite a living improving Beechcraft.
What can be done differently. In the high nose attitude, the ducts are
(should be) installed to maximize flow during time of greatest cooling need
(80 degrees ambient and slower forward air speeds). The entry ramp should
be aerodynamically modified to reduce turbidity (Lopresti) and help the
eldest child up front. The baffles are improved, the flow is directed and
the back wall is caressingly coerced from aft travel to downward travel of
the baby cylinder as well as cooperating with that perfectly well balanced
(you can't do a thing for) middle child with the cool attitude in the
middle. Anyone see Andy Chiavetta's carbon fiber ductwork for Darryl
Greenmeyers screaming Legacy at Reno.
Distribution +/- 10 degrees between cylinder readouts is the desire. Are
your injectors and cylinders flow balanced (See Monty Barrett at BPE)? Are
the probes confirmed as working correctly? Do you know the cost of doing a
Top Overhaul if you were off and George is right about 430? This is about
Experimentation.
OOPs, I just fell off the soapbox. sorry
John Cox
Do not Archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 5:11 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Cylinder head temps
I have 31 hours on my IO-540 and the oil consumption is very low. Engine
monitor is an EIS 6000 and I have set the cylinder head temp limit to 435F.
Problem is the #1 cylinder is 30F degrees hotter than all the others and
will quickly reach its limit on an 80 degree ambient day climbing at 120mph,
25"/2600 rpm. Pushing the nose down to 140mph and backing off the power will
of course help. But, its still quite a dance to just keep the temps from
increasing and the aircraft climbing.
The #1 cylinder is always the hottest and the #3 the coldest. From this I
assume the front dam needs to be trimmed down. I talked to another pilot at
Vans Homecoming and the highest CHT he has seen is 360. His high EGT's were
also in the low 1300, whereas I am seeing EGT's of 1525.
Cowling inlet and outlet are purely stock. I do not have the hot tunnel
problem. Climbing at full rich or leaned conservately (~1250 EGT) does not
seem to make much difference.
What is the experience of others flying? Is the temp distribution such that
the #1 is hottest and #3 coolest? Looking at my CHT & EGT is my engine
monitor out of calibration? Is watching the CHT's during climb a normal
activity or never of interest?
Would appreciate your experiences,
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
flying fast, climbing slow
s.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 31
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ALLCON:
I'm back online! No longer with Avidyne, but I stuck around long enough to get
the employee discount . . .
TDT
40025
tdtpilot@aim.com
________________________________________________________________________
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam
and email virus protection.
Message 32
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Sean Stephens <sean@stephensville.com>
tdtpilot@aim.com wrote:
> ALLCON:
> I'm back online! No longer with Avidyne, but I stuck around long
> enough to get the employee discount . . .
>
> TDT
> 40025
> tdtpilot@aim.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> **
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1081283466x1074645346/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaim%2Ecom%2Ffun%2Fmail%2F>
*Dang! I was hoping for an inside straight into some Avidyne stuff. :)
-Sean #40303
*
Message 33
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| Subject: | Tru Trak Pitch Servo |
Installing my Tru Trak pitch servo, with the mod 2 torque enhanced version
arm with wheel and cable and apart from the lack of installation detail,
(well documented in the archives) I'm missing the centre screw to fix the
wheel in place.
Can anyone who may have this version, tell me how long that screw is and how
is it locked or fixed in place? Tight, Loctite, lock washer, she'll be
right?
John 40315 (finishing)
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