---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 09/23/06: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:38 AM - Spinner Gotcha TIP (ddddsp1@juno.com) 2. 02:18 AM - Re: Spinner Gotcha TIP (Tim Olson) 3. 04:06 AM - Re: When to order QB wings & Fuselage (Larry Rosen) 4. 04:21 AM - Re: The Yard Store (Was Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits) (Larry Rosen) 5. 05:26 AM - Re: Spinner Gotcha TIP (linn Walters) 6. 06:20 AM - Lower cowl air inlets (Wayne Edgerton) 7. 06:38 AM - Re: Spinner Gotcha TIP (Carl Froehlich) 8. 08:25 AM - Re: The Yard Store (Was Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits) (RV Builder (Michael Sausen)) 9. 08:36 AM - [Re: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] (Maule Driver) 10. 08:45 AM - Wrong elevator counterweights shipped (Maule Driver) 11. 09:39 AM - Fuel for thought from the plastic boys (John W. Cox) 12. 09:49 AM - Detonation vs. PreIgnition (John W. Cox) 13. 09:51 AM - Re: When to order QB wings & Fuselage (KiloPapa) 14. 10:07 AM - Re: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] (John W. Cox) 15. 10:08 AM - Re: Wrong elevator counterweights shipped (John Hasbrouck) 16. 11:54 AM - Re: Lower cowl air inlets (Marcus Cooper) 17. 02:05 PM - Re: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] (Jesse Saint) 18. 03:05 PM - Re: Cowl (gary) 19. 06:10 PM - HID lights (Rob Wright) 20. 07:12 PM - Re: HID lights (Tim Olson) 21. 07:35 PM - Re: HID lights (Rob Wright) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:48 AM PST US From: "ddddsp1@juno.com" Subject: RV10-List: Spinner Gotcha TIP Looking at several RV 10 builder logs and final aircraft I was wondering why so many chose to use round head screws in the spinner. I think I k now now. IF you do not rivet your nutplates on the spinner back plate f orward enough..........you do not have room on the aft of the spinner fo r the #8 screw with Tinneman washer. The normal thought when mounting n utplates to the spinner back plate is to CENTER the nutplate. However, i f you do this you will not have enough spinner left for the hardware cal led out. IF you just put in a round head #8 screw all is well ....but n ow you have an ugly round head vs a FLUSH head. Another tip is drill ou t a #6 Tinneman and use with a #8 flush screw on your Spinner IF you are a little short on real estate on the aft of your spinner. Hope this he lps those buliders who have yet to get to this part in the building proc ess. So next time you see a RV 10 with round head screws in the spinner...... .....will you ask the builder WHY he used those when almost the entire o utside of the plane is put together with FLUSH style hardware? :) Ke ep banging and sanding..........it really starts to look like a plane wi th the motor and cowling mounted!!!!! Dean 40449 ________________________________________________________________________

Looking at several RV 10 builder logs and final aircraft I was wondering why so many chose to use round head screws in the spinner.&nbs p; I think I know now.  IF you do not rivet your nutplates on the s pinner back plate forward enough..........you do not have room on the af t of the spinner for the #8 screw with Tinneman washer.  The normal thought when mounting nutplates to the spinner back plate is to CENTER the nutplate. However, if you do this you will not have enough spinner l eft for the hardware called out.  IF you just put in a round head # 8 screw all is well ....but now you have an ugly round head vs a FLUSH head.  Another tip is drill out a #6 Tinneman and use with a #8 flush screw on your Spinner IF you are a little short on real esta te on the aft of your spinner.  Hope this helps those buliders who have yet to get to this part in the building process.

So next time you see a RV 10 with round head screws in the spinner... ........will you ask the builder WHY he used those when almost the entir e outside of the plane is put together with FLUSH style hardware?  :)    Keep banging and sanding..........it really starts to look like a plane with the motor and cowling mounted!!!!!

Dean

40449



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________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:33 AM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: Spinner Gotcha TIP --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Precisely, Dean. I considered flush screws, but that trailing edge of the spinner just doesn't have enough length. I wasn't comfortable with a countersunk hole with that little bit of edge distance. Besides that, I just don't think it would have been quite as easy to have a safely secured spinner with flush screws without having another 1/4" back there. I'm sure it might never break, but I just didn't have the confidence. The round head screws leave you with less thinned out area affected. Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying do not archive ddddsp1@juno.com wrote: > Looking at several RV 10 builder logs and final aircraft I was wondering > why so many chose to use round head screws in the spinner. I think I > know now. IF you do not rivet your nutplates on the spinner back plate > forward enough..........you do not have room on the aft of the spinner > for the #8 screw with Tinneman washer. The normal thought when mounting > nutplates to the spinner back plate is to CENTER the nutplate. However, > if you do this you will not have enough spinner left for the hardware > called out. IF you just put in a round head #8 screw all is well > ....but now you have an ugly round head vs a FLUSH head. Another tip is > drill out a #6 Tinneman and use with a #8 flush screw on your Spinner IF > you are a little short on real estate on the aft of your spinner. Hope > this helps those buliders who have yet to get to this part in the > building process. > > So next time you see a RV 10 with round head screws in the > spinner...........will you ask the builder WHY he used those when almost > the entire outside of the plane is put together with FLUSH style > hardware? :) Keep banging and sanding..........it really starts to > look like a plane with the motor and cowling mounted!!!!! > > Dean > > 40449 > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:29 AM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: RV10-List: When to order QB wings & Fuselage --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen Van's will let you delay the order, but it would be best to tell them upon order, delivery before Jan 7 or after March. Van's is very good at hitting their promise date. The only time there are issues is when the kits are first introduced. Then there are typically delays. > If it doesn't come before Jan 7th, can I delay it to a set date such as March? > > -- Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:24 AM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: The Yard Store (Was RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits) --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen Another source for tools that is not a popular in the RV community is Brown Aviation Tool Supply Company . They do have some good prices and free shipping on orders over $85. I got my air drill, drill bits, yoke, countersinks, etc from them. Their "REX" yokes are pre-drilled and tapped for use with a bench mount option. Also there longeron and 4" yokes do not need any special adapters for the adjustable set. Larry #356 Les Kearney wrote: > --> RV10-List message posted by: Les Kearney > > Hi > > Someone who I trust a great deal and who has a great deal of experience > doing major maintenance on heavy jets (my brother), suggested I look to the > yard shop (www.yardstore.com)for tools. > > Their pricing seems quite a bit better than the Avery & Cleaveland. > According to my brother who orders clecos 10 gross at a time, he has never > had a problem with the tools he buys for his crews at the Yard Store. > > If you take the tool kit list from Avery / Cleaveland and price it using the > Yard Store web site, you can save perhaps another 10%. > > Does anyone else have an opinion? > > Cheers > > Les > RV Wannabe > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marc > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 8:05 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Marc" > > Tom > > I purchased from Planetools and was very pleased. I had a problem with one > of the tools and Shaun sent me one out immediately without me even sending > the other one back. Very friendly and got a FREE pneumatic squeezer with my > order :) > > Marc Hudson > www.marcandkathy.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of tomhanaway > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 7:50 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "tomhanaway" > > I'm not trying to ignore the obvious but I am curious. > Most posters recommend either Avery or Cleveland for the RV-10 tool kit with > certain substitutions. > I'm interested in the Isham Planetools package. Their tools all seem to be > namebrand. > One of the things that puzzles me is that they don't seem to be very > straightforward with the physical location of their business or how to > contact them other than the internet. > > Can anyone comment on their experience with Isham Planetools?? > > Thanks in advance, > Tom Hanaway > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63309#63309 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:22 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: Spinner Gotcha TIP Dean, I'm going to guess why round-head screws. The spinner has to endure some really nasty vibrations, and the counter-sunk screws really don't have much to grip with. I like truss head screws for this application (and just about anywhere else) for attaching sheet metal. They have a little less profile and look less like a small frog sitting on the surface!!! The downside of the truss head is that the screwdriver will strip out easier so I use antisieze a lot. But that's just a guess. Linn do not archive ddddsp1@juno.com wrote: > Looking at several RV 10 builder logs and final aircraft I was > wondering why so many chose to use round head screws in the spinner. > I think I know now. IF you do not rivet your nutplates on the spinner > back plate forward enough..........you do not have room on the aft of > the spinner for the #8 screw with Tinneman washer. The normal thought > when mounting nutplates to the spinner back plate is to CENTER the > nutplate. However, if you do this you will not have enough spinner > left for the hardware called out. IF you just put in a round head #8 > screw all is well ....but now you have an ugly round head vs a FLUSH > head. Another tip is drill out a #6 Tinneman and use with a #8 flush > screw on your Spinner IF you are a little short on real estate on the > aft of your spinner. Hope this helps those buliders who have yet to > get to this part in the building process. > > So next time you see a RV 10 with round head screws in the > spinner...........will you ask the builder WHY he used those when > almost the entire outside of the plane is put together with FLUSH > style hardware? :) Keep banging and sanding..........it really > starts to look like a plane with the motor and cowling mounted!!!!! > > Dean > > 40449 > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:24 AM PST US From: "Wayne Edgerton" Subject: RV10-List: Lower cowl air inlets I am finishing up fitting my cowling and I had someone suggest that I not install the air inlets on the bottom until after I'm flying. The logic of this being that if I do my fly off and don't have a heat problem then I could possible eliminated some drag. Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? By the way I have installed the Skybolt cam locks on the cowling and they really turned out great. I bought their RV10 kit and installed the cam locks a tad over 3 inch's apart, based on talking to them, and I came up about 9 cam locks short so I had to order a few more. I think the 3 inch's is a good distance and turned out well. Wayne Edgerton #40336 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:41 AM PST US From: "Carl Froehlich" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Spinner Gotcha TIP I have #8 SS screws with drilled out #6 SS tinnerman washers on my 8A. Works fine. I'll do the same on the 10. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (270 hrs) RV-10 (tail cone - still) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ddddsp1@juno.com Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:18 AM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Spinner Gotcha TIP Looking at several RV 10 builder logs and final aircraft I was wondering why so many chose to use round head screws in the spinner. I think I know now. IF you do not rivet your nutplates on the spinner back plate forward enough..........you do not have room on the aft of the spinner for the #8 screw with Tinneman washer. The normal thought when mounting nutplates to the spinner back plate is to CENTER the nutplate. However, if you do this you will not have enough spinner left for the hardware called out. IF you just put in a round head #8 screw all is well ....but now you have an ugly round head vs a FLUSH head. Another tip is drill out a #6 Tinneman and use with a #8 flush screw on your Spinner IF you are a little short on real estate on the aft of your spinner. Hope this helps those buliders who have yet to get to this part in the building process. So next time you see a RV 10 with round head screws in the spinner...........will you ask the builder WHY he used those when almost the entire outside of the plane is put together with FLUSH style hardware? :) Keep banging and sanding..........it really starts to look like a plane with the motor and cowling mounted!!!!! Dean 40449 ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:25:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: The Yard Store (Was RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits) From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" --> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" I also got a couple things from the yard store and found them good to deal with. I got my original kit from Avery but if I had to do it again I would get it from Cleaveland or Planetools. There were a few things in Avery's that were not really needed and his double sided deburr tool has broke on me twice and isn't a very good design. To top it off he kept insisting it was my fault even though the deburr tip just popped off while I was using it both times. YMMV Michael ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:06 AM PST US From: Maule Driver Subject: [Re: RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] --> RV10-List message posted by: Maule Driver I bought my tool kit from Isham and am quite happy. Now I'm buying other stuff from Avery and Cleaveland. Per Larry's advice, if you follow his link to his tool writeup you'll see Mike's (from Alexander Tech Center) very positive writeups on the Avery and Cleaveland tool kits. By the time I met Mike, he seemed to think that the Isham kit might be an equally good selection. Especially because it included the DRDT-2 and a pnematic squeezer (free so to speak). I spoke to Isahm about the '10 and he seemed to know how many additional clecos were initially required, the additional bucking bar needed for the HS, etc. It seemed to be a good deal for me. It appears that Isham has some DRDT-2 inventory set aside for him and Mike suggested if not buying the device from him, it might be best to go directly to the manufacturer. Only complaint I have about Isham's kit is the inclusion (dumping) of 2" wide rivet tape. I'll probably use it to pad my rivet gun set. For this newbie, everyone seems to be helpful and knowledgeable. Isham, Avery and Cleaveland have all been a pleasure to deal with. Same with the people at the Alexander Tech Center. The Vans folks seem a bit quirky but hey, we're married now. Bill in Durham Skinning the HS and match drilling the elevator do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:18 AM PST US From: Maule Driver Subject: RV10-List: Wrong elevator counterweights shipped --> RV10-List message posted by: Maule Driver For some reason, my kit included the wrong weights for the elevator counter weights. The guys at Alexander's said they were RV9 rudder weights, and too many of them at that. After getting home and doing some measuring against the full size drawing in the plans, I confirmed that they were wrong. Vans has since sent the right ones. I'm builder 40605. If you are nearby, you may want to double check your weights against the drawings. do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:49 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Fuel for thought from the plastic boys From: "John W. Cox" Here is a mod that the Lancair guys have resorted to for fuel delivery issues. Remember the human body has few hard 90 bends in a cardio-vascular system. Air flow and fluid flow follow similar rules. Think about this in induction air design, cowl airflow and fuel flow. Just a couple more comments on the IV and ES fuel system. The newer planes have 1/2" fuel lines and larger vent lines running from the NACA scoops in the wingtips. Many of us have simplified the routing of our fuel system to eliminate most or all of the 90 degree fittings. Also, we have relocated our boost pumps to the fuselage floor in the center at the firewall. I have 1/2" Aeroquip hose running from a straight fitting on the wing all the way to a mandrel bend 90 degree fitting on the fuel selector, no sharp 90s at all. I'm not sure when the kits started shipping with the Andair fuel selector as standard equipment, but I think it makes a difference too. Bottom line, between the changes Lancair made (larger fuel lines and vents) and the builder changes many of us have incorporated, the vapor suppression problems are far less likely to occur. Especially at IO-550 fuel flows. A couple ES guys who live in very hot climates have experience vapor lock on climbout. One aircraft had been in a hangar that had ambient temperatures exceeding 100 degrees for a couple days. Another guy has had similar experiences flying out of a southern California desert airport. Here in Colorado, we have cool night temperatures, even with hot summer days. I tend to fly in the cool of the morning too. I take off, change tanks, land, and never turn on the boost pump. I've never used my low boost pump, but that would be the first thing I would do if I got any engine hesitation. Mike Easley Colorado Springs Super ES John - 40600 Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:45 AM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Detonation vs. PreIgnition From: "John W. Cox" My apologies to the guys getting this a second time after the Aero-electric list, but many believe blending of Mogas and Avgas helps the pocketbook and has no detrimental side effects. Hopefully Walter will address this in a future Kitplanes article. Good comments, Ron. Yes, the octane rating is a measure of the resistance of the fuel/air mixture to auto-ignite, or ignite without the presence of an open flame. It's a complex phenomenon and autoignition is a function of time, pressure and temperature. The rating methodology, developed by Ethyl Corporation way back when, compares the resistance to auto-ignition of the test fuel to mixtures of normal heptane to iso-octane. The octane number is the percentage of iso-octane in the mix that behaves like the test fuel (80-octane fuel behaves like a a mixture of 20% n-heptane and 80% iso-octane). Since the actual test is really done by measuring the BMEP of a test engine, numbers over 100 are possible - 110-octane fuel will allow the test engine to operate at 110% of the BMEP allowed by iso-octane(not exactly correct, but close enough). The method isn't exact and if the test engine is operated at different temperatures and loads the observed octane number comes out differently. Running at light load creates an octane rating called the "research octane" number and running at high temperature/high load produces a number called "motor octane". The law says the average octane rating of an automotive fuel must be displayed on the pump and that's why it says (R+M)/2 on the pump. Aviation fuel, because engines are usually operated under conditions more like the the motor method, are typically rated by the motor method - I believe 100LL is more correctly called 100/120 (100 motor octane and 120 research octane). That's why some of the past-history fuels were called 110/130 etc. When the fuel is ignited by an open flame front there is little difference in flame speed between high octane and low octane fuel: Flame speed is NOT the primary difference between the fuels. Detonation is auto-ignition of the "end gases" late in the combustion process. Because of combustion in the cylinder the end gases(the portion of the charge furthest from the ignition source) are compressed to very high pressures, which because of the gas law PV=NRT, raises their temperature. They will only remain unburned for a limited time and if the flame front doesn't arrive soon enough, igniting them progressively, they will auto-ignite all at once, "exploding." This will cause all sorts of problems, but will not usually result in immediate engine failure. As Ron correctly described below, "pre-ignition" is simply ignition of the fuel charge before the spark occurs. Because the charge burns and raises the pressure before the piston fully compresses the charge the temperature and pressure can go to extremely high levels, causing major damage very quickly. For example (George Braly would have the real numbers) normal compression (no ignition) pressure might be 350psi, combustion results in pressures of 800 to 1,000 psi and pre-ignition could result in pressures up to 2,000 psi. Pre-ignition can (likely) result from pre-ignition because of the extremely high pressure and temperature of the end gases. One thing that isn't usually thought about is the rate of heat transfer from a gas to the cylinder, which is proportional to the velocity, temperature difference AND PRESSURE of the gas. Double the pressure and double the temperature and the heat transfer will go up by a factor of 4. Detonation results in sonic shock waves traveling through the combustion chamber, which means locally the hot gases are moving at sonic velocity. Much of the damage from both detonation and pre-ignition is caused by the extremely high heat transfer rates, not just the pressure. Detonation under high loads can increase the local heat transfer rate to the point that after a short time a component (edge of the exhaust valve, carbon deposit, etc) can be heated to the point it causes pre-ignition. This has sometimes been referred to as "runaway detonation." I hope from the above description you get the idea that detonation and pre-ignition can be a real horror story for the engine. The best thing is to maintain a healthy detonation margin. In general, detonation is suppressed by increasing the octane rating, lowering the compression ratio, retarding the ignition timing, lowering the inlet temperature and pressure, lowering the cylinder head temperature, increasing turbulence and reducing the distance from the spark plug to the end gases(by running on both plugs). And you can dilute the charge by adding water, excess fuel or excess air (run LOP). As you can see, most of these things will reduce the power output of the engine and therein lies the conundrum. For a standard unmodified aircraft engine the worst operating case would be a takeoff from Death Valley on a dry, 115-degree day with the carb heat left on, mixture leaned and one of the mags inoperative. As I recall it is just those conditions that the FAA requires to be demonstrated for a certified engine. Sorry about the excessively long non-electric dissertation. Gary Casey Know what actions or inactions you can take to keep your Detonation Margins in a safe range. When you increase the piston C/R you are moving closer to No Margin. The big boys at Reno lean into the wind with a runway/desert always immediately below them. John - 40600 Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:54 AM PST US From: "KiloPapa" Subject: Re: RV10-List: When to order QB wings & Fuselage --> RV10-List message posted by: "KiloPapa" If you delay you may lose the locked-in price. This is what I was told in early '06 Kevin 40494 tail/empennage do not archive --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen Van's will let you delay the order, but it would be best to tell them upon order, delivery before Jan 7 or after March. Van's is very good at hitting their promise date. The only time there are issues is when the kits are first introduced. Then there are typically delays. > If it doesn't come before Jan 7th, can I delay it to a set date such as > March? Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 http://lrosen.nerv10.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] From: "John W. Cox" --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" This is a good point to ask the group in a group query. Which specific bucking bars are your most favorites, did they come in whose kit and which specialty bars do you recommend adding for the RV-10 newbies that have been recently asking? Back in the days of James McClow (I know, I still miss his webcam) and Tim's early pursuits, this was mentioned and has fallen by silent times. Scott Schmidt had some great Tool pics in his early days. Isn't everyone's shop, dog, wife, bike, home, hangar and bicycle as nice? There goes that Lusting again Jesse. I buy lots of stuff from the Yard, they are more reasonable than Avery. Brown for hard to get stuff cause they are more expensive. 10-20% can be saved by comparison shopping between the top six vendors and their periodic sales. The brand new 4X Cleco gun (limited quantity at Brown) is considered the Rolls Royce at work. The trigger will allow a simple tap, a gentle 1X hit all the way up to a 4X slap and everything between. They are so desired most guys buy reconditioned in the $200-300 range. I run a Deutsch 2X and a cheapo US Tool 4X with their TP176 kit which was 25% off at OSH on a daily special. John -40600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maule Driver Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: [Re: RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] --> RV10-List message posted by: Maule Driver I bought my tool kit from Isham and am quite happy. Now I'm buying other stuff from Avery and Cleaveland. Per Larry's advice, if you follow his link to his tool writeup you'll see Mike's (from Alexander Tech Center) very positive writeups on the Avery and Cleaveland tool kits. By the time I met Mike, he seemed to think that the Isham kit might be an equally good selection. Especially because it included the DRDT-2 and a pnematic squeezer (free so to speak). I spoke to Isahm about the '10 and he seemed to know how many additional clecos were initially required, the additional bucking bar needed for the HS, etc. It seemed to be a good deal for me. It appears that Isham has some DRDT-2 inventory set aside for him and Mike suggested if not buying the device from him, it might be best to go directly to the manufacturer. Only complaint I have about Isham's kit is the inclusion (dumping) of 2" wide rivet tape. I'll probably use it to pad my rivet gun set. For this newbie, everyone seems to be helpful and knowledgeable. Isham, Avery and Cleaveland have all been a pleasure to deal with. Same with the people at the Alexander Tech Center. The Vans folks seem a bit quirky but hey, we're married now. Bill in Durham Skinning the HS and match drilling the elevator ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:49 AM PST US From: "John Hasbrouck" Subject: Re: RV10-List: Wrong elevator counterweights shipped --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" That's interesting! I'm builder #40264 and received my emp. kit in 2004. It also had the wrong elevator counterweights. When I talked to Van's back then with the dimensions they couldn't figure out where they came from. They suggested I cut and drill them to fit but I fianlly had the right ones sent. Cutting and drilling through lead is no fun at all. Another potential trouble spot is in the wing kit with the aileron brackets. The W1013C-L didn't line up with its counterpart. The rivet holes were okay but the bearing recess was off about 1/32". This should be corrected by now but if you bought the slo-build wings in the 2005 time frame and have been sitting on them, check this out. With all the parts in these kits an occasional glitch can be expected. Overall they do a great job. John Hasbrouck #40264 fuse. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:42 AM PST US From: "Marcus Cooper" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Lower cowl air inlets Wayne, Probably the safest option is to talk to the folks at Van's, however since there have been a number of threads about too much heat I'd recommend making the inlets. One individual even made larger inlets. Based on the numerous threads I seriously doubt you'll end up not having wished they were there, not to mention new engines tend to run hotter anyway and you will want all the help you can get cooling it off. A safer option would be to make the cuts and then close them back off at a controlled progression in an effort to save drag but not compromise cooling. (Hmm, this answer took a lot longer than it should have - sorry) Marcus Do not archive _____ From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Edgerton Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:19 AM Subject: RV10-List: Lower cowl air inlets I am finishing up fitting my cowling and I had someone suggest that I not install the air inlets on the bottom until after I'm flying. The logic of this being that if I do my fly off and don't have a heat problem then I could possible eliminated some drag. Does anyone have any thoughts on this idea? By the way I have installed the Skybolt cam locks on the cowling and they really turned out great. I bought their RV10 kit and installed the cam locks a tad over 3 inch's apart, based on talking to them, and I came up about 9 cam locks short so I had to order a few more. I think the 3 inch's is a good distance and turned out well. Wayne Edgerton #40336 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:48 PM PST US From: "Jesse Saint" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" While we are on the tools issue, I have to say that the quick-change kit that Cleaveland sells is the best investment we have made in tools. Just wish they had a base for a #19, but we just got the threaded base and a threaded #19 and it works fine. No more messing with a chuck, and if you need something special, just pop in the keyless chuck with the quick-change base and you are good to go. That kit with a Sioux drill is awesome to work with. Oh, did I mention that without the chuck, you can get in narrower places without your chuck scraping the sides of stuff that is in the way. Do not archive. Jesse Saint I-TEC, Inc. jesse@itecusa.org www.itecusa.org W: 352-465-4545 C: 352-427-0285 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 1:08 PM Subject: RE: RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] --> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" This is a good point to ask the group in a group query. Which specific bucking bars are your most favorites, did they come in whose kit and which specialty bars do you recommend adding for the RV-10 newbies that have been recently asking? Back in the days of James McClow (I know, I still miss his webcam) and Tim's early pursuits, this was mentioned and has fallen by silent times. Scott Schmidt had some great Tool pics in his early days. Isn't everyone's shop, dog, wife, bike, home, hangar and bicycle as nice? There goes that Lusting again Jesse. I buy lots of stuff from the Yard, they are more reasonable than Avery. Brown for hard to get stuff cause they are more expensive. 10-20% can be saved by comparison shopping between the top six vendors and their periodic sales. The brand new 4X Cleco gun (limited quantity at Brown) is considered the Rolls Royce at work. The trigger will allow a simple tap, a gentle 1X hit all the way up to a 4X slap and everything between. They are so desired most guys buy reconditioned in the $200-300 range. I run a Deutsch 2X and a cheapo US Tool 4X with their TP176 kit which was 25% off at OSH on a daily special. John -40600 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Maule Driver Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: [Re: RV10-List: Isham Planetools for RV-10 kits] --> RV10-List message posted by: Maule Driver I bought my tool kit from Isham and am quite happy. Now I'm buying other stuff from Avery and Cleaveland. Per Larry's advice, if you follow his link to his tool writeup you'll see Mike's (from Alexander Tech Center) very positive writeups on the Avery and Cleaveland tool kits. By the time I met Mike, he seemed to think that the Isham kit might be an equally good selection. Especially because it included the DRDT-2 and a pnematic squeezer (free so to speak). I spoke to Isahm about the '10 and he seemed to know how many additional clecos were initially required, the additional bucking bar needed for the HS, etc. It seemed to be a good deal for me. It appears that Isham has some DRDT-2 inventory set aside for him and Mike suggested if not buying the device from him, it might be best to go directly to the manufacturer. Only complaint I have about Isham's kit is the inclusion (dumping) of 2" wide rivet tape. I'll probably use it to pad my rivet gun set. For this newbie, everyone seems to be helpful and knowledgeable. Isham, Avery and Cleaveland have all been a pleasure to deal with. Same with the people at the Alexander Tech Center. The Vans folks seem a bit quirky but hey, we're married now. Bill in Durham Skinning the HS and match drilling the elevator -- -- ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:04 PM PST US From: "gary" Subject: RV10-List: RE: Cowl I have photos of my cowl for the cold air induction. Unfortunately I am not very good with this stuff so I need you to go to the following link to see them. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/brendadawg/album?.dir=/eb64re2&.src=ph&.tok=ph CuCjFB4K34TJwB Gary 40274 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:19 PM PST US From: "Rob Wright" Subject: RV10-List: HID lights Tim and others with DW installed, Do the DW lights light up well enough for you? My original idea was to use the DW for ldg and the Van's ldg light kit for taxi. I'm at a point that I can forego the Vans kit but would like some field research on how well the DW lights do with one pointed for ldg and one pointed for taxi. Rob Wright #392 Wingtips ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:17 PM PST US From: Tim Olson Subject: Re: RV10-List: HID lights --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Well, this might not be exactly what you're looking for but.... I've got 2 Duckworks HID's. From the time that I've installed them, I haven't gotten around to properly aiming them. Right now they are way too low, maybe 30' in front of the plane or so...not what you'd necessarily want for night landings. But here's the big "however". HOWEVER, with those HID's, even with them so mis-aimed that they really shouldn't be too good, they are so darn bright that they are much better than my old plane that had 2 100W halogen standard aviation lamps in it, or the single 250W that it originally had. One of these days I'll get around to aiming them a bit further forward, and based on what I'm seeing now, I think it will really be impressive. I'm not really one who cares for separate landing and taxi lights, but I think if you aimed one for taxi, it will still be plenty of help for landing. The coolest part about the HIDs isn't even the brightness....it's the fact that my ammeter only goes up by 6A when both are lit up! Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Rob Wright wrote: > Tim and others with DW installed, > > > > Do the DW lights light up well enough for you? My original idea was to > use the DW for ldg and the Vans ldg light kit for taxi. Im at a point > that I can forego the Vans kit but would like some field research on how > well the DW lights do with one pointed for ldg and one pointed for taxi. > > > > Rob Wright > > #392 > > Wingtips > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:39 PM PST US From: "Rob Wright" Subject: RE: RV10-List: HID lights --> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Wright" Thanks. Do not archive Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 9:11 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: HID lights --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson Well, this might not be exactly what you're looking for but.... I've got 2 Duckworks HID's. From the time that I've installed them, I haven't gotten around to properly aiming them. Right now they are way too low, maybe 30' in front of the plane or so...not what you'd necessarily want for night landings. But here's the big "however". HOWEVER, with those HID's, even with them so mis-aimed that they really shouldn't be too good, they are so darn bright that they are much better than my old plane that had 2 100W halogen standard aviation lamps in it, or the single 250W that it originally had. One of these days I'll get around to aiming them a bit further forward, and based on what I'm seeing now, I think it will really be impressive. I'm not really one who cares for separate landing and taxi lights, but I think if you aimed one for taxi, it will still be plenty of help for landing. The coolest part about the HIDs isn't even the brightness....it's the fact that my ammeter only goes up by 6A when both are lit up! Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying Rob Wright wrote: > Tim and others with DW installed, > > > > Do the DW lights light up well enough for you? My original idea was to > use the DW for ldg and the Van's ldg light kit for taxi. I'm at a point > that I can forego the Vans kit but would like some field research on how > well the DW lights do with one pointed for ldg and one pointed for taxi. > > > > Rob Wright > > #392 > > Wingtips >