Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:46 AM - Re: Hugo Rv10#40456 (RAS)
2. 02:26 AM - Re: Opinion regarding air vents (Russell Daves)
3. 04:20 AM - Re: Re: MVP-50 Fuel Flow Transducer (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
4. 04:50 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (gary)
5. 05:12 AM - Re: Direct2 issue (Wayne Edgerton)
6. 05:48 AM - QB Wings and Standard Fuselage (Michael Wellenzohn)
7. 06:06 AM - Re: Direct2 issue (Mark Ritter)
8. 06:12 AM - Re: Opinion regarding air vents (John W. Cox)
9. 06:33 AM - Re: Priming in a confined space (Rick)
10. 06:52 AM - Re: grounding .... was Priming in a confined space (linn Walters)
11. 07:00 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
12. 07:06 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (linn Walters)
13. 07:16 AM - Re: QB Wings and Standard Fuselage (Jesse Saint)
14. 07:57 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (John Gonzalez)
15. 08:53 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (JOHN STARN)
16. 09:53 AM - Fuel tank return fuel line (Jae Chang)
17. 09:55 AM - Al fuel vent line cutting (Jae Chang)
18. 10:00 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (Vern W. Smith)
19. 10:05 AM - Flap Trailing Edge (Jeff Carpenter)
20. 10:17 AM - Re: Al fuel vent line cutting (Rick)
21. 10:22 AM - Re: Al fuel vent line cutting (egohr1)
22. 10:31 AM - Re: Flap Trailing Edge (Rick)
23. 10:32 AM - Re: Fuel tank return fuel line (Deems Davis)
24. 11:01 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (John Gonzalez)
25. 11:05 AM - Re: Fuel tank return fuel line (John Jessen)
26. 11:15 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
27. 11:30 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
28. 11:41 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (John Gonzalez)
29. 11:45 AM - Re: Al fuel vent line cutting (Tim Olson)
30. 11:46 AM - Re: Fuel tank return fuel line (Tim Olson)
31. 12:02 PM - Life Insurance (Jeff Carpenter)
32. 12:11 PM - Re: Life Insurance (Jeffery J. Morgan)
33. 12:28 PM - Re: Life Insurance (Dj Merrill)
34. 12:28 PM - Re: Fuel tank return fuel line (John Jessen)
35. 01:12 PM - Re: Al fuel vent line cutting (JOHN STARN)
36. 01:31 PM - Re: Al fuel vent line cutting (linn Walters)
37. 01:42 PM - Re: Life Insurance (linn Walters)
38. 02:04 PM - Re: Life Insurance (Dj Merrill)
39. 02:20 PM - Re: Life Insurance (Bobby J. Hughes)
40. 02:56 PM - Re: Al fuel vent line cutting (Jae Chang)
41. 04:04 PM - Re: Fuel tank return fuel line (Jae Chang)
42. 04:45 PM - Life insurace (Paul Walter)
43. 04:58 PM - Het Allen how's the engine? (Deems Davis)
44. 05:09 PM - Re: Priming in a confined space (John W. Cox)
45. 05:20 PM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (John W. Cox)
46. 05:22 PM - Re: Fuel tank return fuel line (bob.kaufmann)
47. 05:40 PM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (John W. Cox)
48. 05:57 PM - Re: Het Allen how's the engine? (Larry Rosen)
49. 06:17 PM - rear seat shoulder harness attach (John Hasbrouck)
50. 06:36 PM - Oops (Deems Davis)
51. 06:51 PM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (McGANN, Ron)
52. 06:54 PM - Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach (Marcus Cooper)
53. 06:57 PM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (bob.kaufmann)
54. 07:08 PM - Re: Fuel tank return fuel line (Deems Davis)
55. 07:12 PM - Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic (Larry Rosen)
56. 07:33 PM - Re: Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic (bob.kaufmann)
57. 07:48 PM - Change In Status (LES KEARNEY)
58. 08:30 PM - Re: Direct2 issue (KiloPapa)
59. 09:01 PM - Re: Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic (Rob Wright)
60. 11:09 PM - Re: Change In Status (John Jessen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Hugo Rv10#40456 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
Hi,
there's a pilot hole in the side of the fuselage skin, roughly 4 inches
forward of the flap actuator .
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Opinion regarding air vents |
I second Jim's Opinion, but like Tim Olson, I may add an overhead
console and overhead vents when I install my flightline interior (less
seats), due for delivery in January. My wife installed a headliner but
decided after Grady O'Neal at GLO Custom Paint did such a wonderful job
on the paint that she wanted me to order the Flightline interior.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
LOE 2006 Bound
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion regarding air vents
In my opinion, the stock vents are quite adequate for cooling. You can
point them up toward your face if you need it, or elsewhere if you don't
want all that wind blowing on your microphone. For a while I had
diverted the passenger vent for avionics cooling... I was able to keep
the most finicky passengers happy in 100 deg weather by directing the
pilot's vent cross cockpit.
Personally, I would not spend the effort or panel space raising the
stock vents higher or installing overhead vents.
Jim
40134 - Flying
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
Graduate Student
Humans and Automation Lab (http://halab.mit.edu)
Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
In a message dated 10/3/2006 10:15:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
deemsdavis@cox.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
For those of you that are flying or for those of you that have spent
some time in one of the transition aircraft. How would you assess
the
need/desirability of overhead fresh-air vents? I've read comments
that
the standard Van's vents provide an abundance of air, however most
of it
is aimed to low (gonad refrigerant). If the Naca Vents were ducted
to
provide fresh air to the pilot/copilot face/head/trunk from a little
higher on the instrument panel,would the overhead vents still be
worth
having ? I've got the Cabin cover off and now would be the right
time
to add something if it's necessary, If it's not that's one
modification
I'd be happy to forgo.
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RE: MVP-50 Fuel Flow Transducer |
In a message dated 10/3/2006 8:01:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
wcurtis@core.com writes:
I ordered one of their new transducers "at a really good price" telling them
it was a spare for the FlowScan. It is actually for the RV-10 to be used
with the Grand Rapid EIS.
Not trying to be judgemental, but a "little" lie about a product's intention
to get a lower price? I guess there are some things we don't need to know.
P
Message 4
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| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
For those of you new to composits there are two products that you should not
be without. Superfil by Poly-Fiber and UV Smooth Prime Filler. The first is
a body filler but it is light weight and sands easily. It goes on easy and
comes off easy. This is a must, for get the bondo. The second is for pin
holes in the composits. It to works great. Both are pricy but as they say
you get what you pay for. Spruce has both of them.
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse and
figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins"
left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the
depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior
appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for the deeper
'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The
Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers progress to keep me from
wandering too far afield from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was
doing and in an offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of
the 2 products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o
! He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
demonstrate the results.
So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using? And
where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and cosmetic
only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes too long
to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it takes many many
coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
Let the games begin
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Direct2 issue |
I've made a terrible mistake on this posting and I need to apologize to
Stein. I hadn't meant for this to be posted on Matronics but rather sent
confidential to Stein. I'm not sure what I did but I obviously wasn't
paying attention well enough and selected the wrong e-mail address when
I sent it.
This was a very bad mistake on my part and I certainly owe Stein an
apology.
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 6
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| Subject: | QB Wings and Standard Fuselage |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn" <michael@wellenzohn.net>
Hello everybody,
I am starting soon with the tailcone so its time to order the next kit parts.
Is ist possible to order the QB wings and have the standard fuselage shipped first
(without the ) so that I can still keep on building without having to wait
until the Wings are ready.
If Wings and Fuse would be delivered at the same time I'd face some space problems.
Any experience out there in the community?
Cheers
Michael
#40511
http://www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65693#65693
Message 7
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>
Kevin,
The Garmin MX-20 has its own data base (another subscription fee). It talks
to the G430 and displays GPS flight plan route, etc. There are three map
pages (1) VFR map page that looks like a sectional map, (2) IFR map page
that has victor airways, intersections, etc., (3) Custom map page which is a
sectional map page but with the ability add or delete items. It has a ton
of features and options like XM weather and radio and approach chart display
- too numerous to mention here. It is also very easy to learn how to use
the features.
Mark
>From: kilopapa@antelecom.net
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Direct2 issue
>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:40:29 -0800
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: kilopapa@antelecom.net
>
>Your system sound nice. What is displayed on the MX20? Is
>it a standalone moving map?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kevin
>40494
>
>----- Original Message Follows -----
>From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Direct2 issue
>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 21:16:22 -0500
>
>... and went with a dual screen
> >GRT and MX 20 setup. I cancelled after getting cold feet
> >on the cost and not because of a problem with Direct2.
> >The GRT, MX 20 with XM weather and radio coupled with a
> >G430, TT Sorcerer A/P and SL30 makes for a pretty capable
> >panel and great folks to deal with.
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Opinion regarding air vents |
Great way to strategize the financial decision-making Russ. Hope my wife
does not read this.
I am having VANS delete the NACA and rear PAX ducts from the fuselage
skin CNC punch. I am relocating the NACAs farther forward (up against
the firewall) and directing them higher where air ducts are normally
designed to be located. My gonads will be just fine - thanks. This
requires mounting the rudder pedal mounts lower and having the side
tubing shortened (the exact distance the mount blocks are lowered). I
liked the dark charcoal powder coat effect, so the weld process will be
done preparatory to the last color powder coat. The rear Pax will have
total control from the empennage mounted NACA with "forward flow"
overhead air plenum (Like Mooney, Piper, Beechcraft and Cirrus). Stole
the idea from Ed Hayden. Size adequacy was not the issue for me, it was
the blatantly poor design placement. However Ed's team found that a
larger overhead orifice reduced the air stream whistle during Max Cool.
Jepp charts can be just too darned important on a hot day (to stay on my
lap). Secondly the routing of the ductwork can allow for removal of
condensate before it bubbles into the hermetically sealed avionics
cockpit - Dehumidifiers anyone?. We are going into our 6 months of 85%
humidity from the gentle Pacific Ocean Maritime flow just now.
John
40600 - Flying in my mind daily
Do not Archive
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion regarding air vents
I second Jim's Opinion, but like Tim Olson, I may add an overhead
console and overhead vents when I install my flightline interior (less
seats), due for delivery in January. My wife installed a headliner but
decided after Grady O'Neal at GLO Custom Paint did such a wonderful job
on the paint that she wanted me to order the Flightline interior.
Russ Daves
N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06
LOE 2006 Bound
----- Original Message -----
From: JSMcGrew@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:15 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Opinion regarding air vents
In my opinion, the stock vents are quite adequate for cooling.
You can point them up toward your face if you need it, or elsewhere if
you don't want all that wind blowing on your microphone. For a while I
had diverted the passenger vent for avionics cooling... I was able to
keep the most finicky passengers happy in 100 deg weather by directing
the pilot's vent cross cockpit.
Personally, I would not spend the effort or panel space raising
the stock vents higher or installing overhead vents.
Jim
40134 - Flying
Jim "Scooter" McGrew
Graduate Student
Humans and Automation Lab (http://halab.mit.edu
<https://webmail.mit.edu/horde/services/go.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fhalab.m
i
t.edu> )
Department of Aeronautics and Astronautics
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
In a message dated 10/3/2006 10:15:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight
Time, deemsdavis@cox.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis
<deemsdavis@cox.net>
For those of you that are flying or for those of you
that have spent
some time in one of the transition aircraft. How would
you assess the
need/desirability of overhead fresh-air vents? I've read
comments that
the standard Van's vents provide an abundance of air,
however most of it
is aimed to low (gonad refrigerant). If the Naca Vents
were ducted to
provide fresh air to the pilot/copilot face/head/trunk
from a little
higher on the instrument panel,would the overhead vents
still be worth
having ? I've got the Cabin cover off and now would be
the right time
to add something if it's necessary, If it's not that's
one modification
I'd be happy to forgo.
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 9
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| Subject: | Priming in a confined space |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
John,
So what is the procedure THIS year....ground wire connected to ground first or
aircraft first. It seemed the first point connect would change every year. FWIW,
a headphone jack makes a nice grounding point in the exterior.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>Sent: Oct 3, 2006 9:20 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Priming in a confined space
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
>Two years ago Hoyt Fleming (Boise - N727TF)the proud owner of a newly
>painted experimental was having some touch-up done on one wing. The
>Painter (a true professional and veteran) had correctly drained the wing
>tank. Unfortunately, like so many experimental guys, he does not
>regularly ground the aircraft in the hangar. Secondly, he left the tank
>cap ajar. Third, he should have noticed when the hair on his arm began
>to raise that the low humidity and friction from sanding was creating
>static. The ensuing combustion was quickly extinguished but the
>internal tank began burning (smoldering) at the wing root.
>
>Final outcome, the engine went to another builder, the rest was toast.
>Want to take bets on how many of you guys working canopies aren't
>regularly grounded? Be safe, ground it from the beginning and continue
>the good habit.
>
>The Turbanator
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:36 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Priming in a confined space
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>
>Better yet, just go in there to paint with a lit cigarette and no mask
>and
>get it over with. "Too much hastle, this airplane building stuff!"
>Just go
>out and buy a Cessna. Oh, wait...I mean...OK, go with the other
>suggestions
>after all.
>
>Do not archive.
>
>Jesse Saint
>I-TEC, Inc.
>jesse@itecusa.org
>www.itecusa.org
>W: 352-465-4545
>C: 352-427-0285
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:54 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Priming in a confined space
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>Also, brush-less exhaust fan.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 5:44 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Priming in a confined space
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
>Not only the heater but the WATER HEATER if it is in your
>garage....pilot
>light in there and the WHOOSH as it kicks off to reheat may be the last
>thing you hear.
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>>Sent: Oct 2, 2006 4:44 PM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Priming in a confined space
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>>
>>A supplied air respirator makes all the difference in the world. I
>>started with a dual carbon filter respirator and for Xmas I got a hobby
>
>>air. The first time I used supplied air I didn't even know there were
>>any fumes in the garage. I could not smell a thing. I cannot say the
>>same for the carbon filter respirator. A local RV-9 builder uses the
>>exhaust from a shop vac (cleaned of course) to supply breathing air,
>>and it works well.
>>
>>I use Tim's method to keep the room safe from an explosion. Heat it
>>up, turn off the heater. Paint away with an exhaust fan, and then open
>
>>up the garage doors to let the fumes escape.
>>
>>Larry Rosen
>>#356
>>
>>Les Kearney wrote:
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Les Kearney <kearney@shaw.ca>
>>>
>>> Hi
>>> As part of my self education process I have been reading various
>>> links for priming info.
>>>
>>> I noticed that many people print outside on sunny, warm days - an
>>> option I won't have in the winter when its -20C and snowing.
>>>
>>> That being said, how does one *safely* prime in a heated garage. By
>>> safely I mean that I want to have a fuel air explosion caused by my
>>> natural gas garage heater as well as avoid growing a third arm due to
>toxic fumes.
>>>
>>> Inquiring minds need to know ....
>>>
>>> Les Kearney
>>> RV10 Wannabe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>
>
>--
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: grounding .... was Priming in a confined space |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Rick wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
>John,
>
>So what is the procedure THIS year....ground wire connected to ground first or
aircraft first. It seemed the first point connect would change every year. FWIW,
a headphone jack makes a nice grounding point in the exterior.
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>
>do not archive
>
The headphone jack is a great idea Rick!!! Wish I'd thought of that!!!
When refueling, just wear your headset (you'll need a long headset
extender cord) and take the ground clamp next to the pump and clip it on
your earring (or nose ring whichever you have ...... but no lip rings
..... you'll hate that 'metallic' taste). This will work a whole lot
better if you play your favorite music while you're fueling. Depending
on how much fuel you need, you might be able to get through two songs
before you hop back in the airplane!!!
Linn
Message 11
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| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Epoxy also has a tendency to let go of polyester parts after a while and
I believe the canopy is made from polyester resin. But I could be wrong
as I haven't seen my canopy in over a month. I need to get my new
workshop done!
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse and
figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins"
left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the
depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior
appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for the deeper
'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The
Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers progress to keep me from
wandering too far afield from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was
doing and in an offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of
the 2 products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o !
He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
demonstrate the results.
So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using? And
where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and cosmetic
only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes too long
to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it takes many many
coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
Let the games begin
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Most likely the canopy is acrylic.
Linn
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
>Epoxy also has a tendency to let go of polyester parts after a while and
>I believe the canopy is made from polyester resin. But I could be wrong
>as I haven't seen my canopy in over a month. I need to get my new
>workshop done!
>
>Michael
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:54 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
>I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse and
>figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins"
>left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the
>depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior
>appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for the deeper
>'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The
>Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers progress to keep me from
>wandering too far afield from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was
>doing and in an offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of
>the 2 products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
>months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o !
>He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
>demonstrate the results.
>
>So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using? And
>where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
>particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
>application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and cosmetic
>only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes too long
>to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it takes many many
>coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
>
>Let the games begin
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Panel/Finishing
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | QB Wings and Standard Fuselage |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
You would have to talk to Van's for sure, but you would need to go ahead and
order the QB wings and have them ship the spar center sections with your
fuse. You can't do almost anything on the fuse without the center sections,
which are shipped with the wing kit.
Give Van's a call and they can explain everything you need to know.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael
Wellenzohn
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:47 AM
Subject: RV10-List: QB Wings and Standard Fuselage
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn"
<michael@wellenzohn.net>
Hello everybody,
I am starting soon with the tailcone so its time to order the next kit
parts.
Is ist possible to order the QB wings and have the standard fuselage shipped
first (without the ) so that I can still keep on building without having
to wait until the Wings are ready.
If Wings and Fuse would be delivered at the same time I'd face some space
problems.
Any experience out there in the community?
Cheers
Michael
#40511
http://www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65693#65693
--
--
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
People need to agree on what we are calling each item,
windscreen/windshield, cabin top /roof/canopy?
I don't know what you folks are referring to. My Glider has a canopy made
completely out of acrylic, plexi glass with an epoxy frame.
The 10's cabin top I hope is made from epoxy resin, but I am not certain
because unlike the epoxies I've worked with, this large part has a green hue
which is more typical of polyester resins that I have used. I don't think
Van's would use polyester in such an important part as there is much more
shrinkage with polyester, but we need to know!
As we all know, epoxy filler doesn't stick too well to polyester parts, but
polyester fillers do stick to epoxy parts.
I will make a very strong suggestion for a polyester based filler product.
US chemical makes a super lightweight, sands in 15 minutes or less and is
strong and works great with sandable polyester primers.
US chemicals--Split Second go to:
http://www.uschem.com/products/index.html
click on USC,Morton,Cargroom products, then to professional putties and then
find Split Second.
I faired in my nose and canopy of my sailplane a few years ago and did all
the work and painted it with a matched color of automotive paint and wet
sanded and polished the juction and it is holding up great and you can't see
any difference from the original paint.
JOhn G. 409
>From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 10:05:50 -0400
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
>Most likely the canopy is acrylic.
>Linn
>
>RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
>><rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>>
>>Epoxy also has a tendency to let go of polyester parts after a while and
>>I believe the canopy is made from polyester resin. But I could be wrong
>>as I haven't seen my canopy in over a month. I need to get my new
>>workshop done!
>>
>>Michael
>>Do not archive
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:54 PM
>>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>>I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse and
>>figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins" left
>>from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the
>>depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior
>>appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for the deeper
>>'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The
>>Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers progress to keep me from
>>wandering too far afield from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was
>>doing and in an offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of
>>the 2 products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
>>months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o !
>>He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
>>demonstrate the results.
>>
>>So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using? And
>>where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
>>particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
>>application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and cosmetic
>>only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes too long
>>to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it takes many many
>>coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
>>
>>Let the games begin
>>
>>Deems Davis # 406
>>Panel/Finishing
>>http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
It's my understanding that epoxy resin will stick/bond to polyester but not
the other way around.
Do Not Archive KABONG
"As we all know, epoxy filler doesn't stick too well to polyester parts,
but
> polyester fillers do stick to epoxy parts."
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Fuel tank return fuel line |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
Does anyone think adding a return fuel line to the fuel tanks, is a bad idea? I
have seen -7 builder logs add this addition, but not any -10 builders, yet.
If it's a worthwhile task, I notice that the fuel tank ribs have 2 small
identically sized holes for snapbushings on the top side of the rib, right below
the rib's top flange. The forward-most hole is designated in the plans for the
vent line. However, was there any initial intention for the rear-most hole? As
far as I can tell, it looks like it is ignored.
Do you foresee any problems using this existing rear-most hole for putting in
snapbushings to hold a fuel-return line?
The only new hole I would need to drill then is in the T-1003B end rib to hold
the AN hardware. Do you foresee any problems putting a hole in the end rib
similar to the fuel tank ribs?
Thanks for the feedback,
Jae
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Al fuel vent line cutting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
Another quickie question, is it kosher to use a home depot plumbing pipe cutter,
for cutting the Al tubes for the fuel vent lines for instance?
I guess I still need to buy something like the Parker Flaring Tool to flare the
ends?
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=212FB&ReturnPage=/shop/
flyer.aspx?PageNo=1
Thanks again,
Jae
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Vern W. Smith" <Vern@teclabsinc.com>
For what it is worth, I called Van's and was told the cabin roof is an
epoxy lay-up.
Vern Smith(40324)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
It's my understanding that epoxy resin will stick/bond to polyester but
not
the other way around.
Do Not Archive KABONG
"As we all know, epoxy filler doesn't stick too well to polyester
parts,
but
> polyester fillers do stick to epoxy parts."
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Flap Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
Hello Fellow Builders...
I've got my flaps all clecoed up and drilled out and notice that my
flap skins... both skins on both flaps come up 1/16" short of the
trailing edge wedge. This was not the case with my rudder trailing
edge, where the skins actually extended a fraction beyond the end of
the wedge. Have others experienced this?
I'm thinking that my trailing edge wedges might have been mis-
punched... probably a lot more likely than all 4 skins being off.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Al fuel vent line cutting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Jae,
A good tubing cutter is worth the extra dollars spent. The small Rigid cutter has
good bearing rollers and fine threads for better cutter feed. The cheaper models
will not make as clean of a cut and tend to bevel the edge a bit too much.
I picked mine up at Homedepot for about $25. I also have a Parker Rotoflare,
hard to swallow price but works perfect. Be advised that if you lend it out
you will need it the next day...Speaking of which Mr. Kaufmann...I need my Rotoflare
back.
Make sure your using the 37 degree flaring tool for AN fittings.
Rick S.
40185
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2006 12:55 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Al fuel vent line cutting
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>
>Another quickie question, is it kosher to use a home depot plumbing pipe cutter,
>for cutting the Al tubes for the fuel vent lines for instance?
>
>I guess I still need to buy something like the Parker Flaring Tool to flare the
>ends?
>
>http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=212FB&ReturnPage=/shop/
>flyer.aspx?PageNo=1
>
>Thanks again,
>Jae
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Al fuel vent line cutting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "egohr1" <EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu>
Any good quality tubing cutter will work. I suggest 2, a standard for using in
the open and a close quarters cutter. Both availble at Home Depot and Lowes
Aviation supply.
The parker tool is required for the flare, do noty use a auto parts flaring tool,
as the flare angle is wrong.
--------
eric gohr
EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65772#65772
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Flap Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
Mine were the same way, more like a 1/32 though. My rudder was perfectly flush.
Rick S.
40185
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2006 1:05 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Flap Trailing Edge
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
>Hello Fellow Builders...
>
>I've got my flaps all clecoed up and drilled out and notice that my
>flap skins... both skins on both flaps come up 1/16" short of the
>trailing edge wedge. This was not the case with my rudder trailing
>edge, where the skins actually extended a fraction beyond the end of
>the wedge. Have others experienced this?
>
>I'm thinking that my trailing edge wedges might have been mis-
>punched... probably a lot more likely than all 4 skins being off.
>
>Jeff Carpenter
>40304
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank return fuel line |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Jae adding a return line could be an excellent addition. Depending upon
which engine installation you decide upon. e.g. the AFP fuel injection
system have a purge valve to assist hot starts/vapor lock conditions.
Eggenfellner requires one for continuous return of unused fuel. It's an
easy addition that you can always stub off if not needed. Adding it
later will be more difficult (ask me how I know). I found and bought a
'bung' from one of the RV parts suppliers that can be riveted to the end
rib and is already machined for the An fitting.
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Jae Chang wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>
>Does anyone think adding a return fuel line to the fuel tanks, is a bad idea?
I
>have seen -7 builder logs add this addition, but not any -10 builders, yet.
>
>If it's a worthwhile task, I notice that the fuel tank ribs have 2 small
>identically sized holes for snapbushings on the top side of the rib, right below
>the rib's top flange. The forward-most hole is designated in the plans for the
>vent line. However, was there any initial intention for the rear-most hole? As
>far as I can tell, it looks like it is ignored.
>
>Do you foresee any problems using this existing rear-most hole for putting in
>snapbushings to hold a fuel-return line?
>
>The only new hole I would need to drill then is in the T-1003B end rib to hold
>the AN hardware. Do you foresee any problems putting a hole in the end rib
>similar to the fuel tank ribs?
>
>Thanks for the feedback,
>Jae
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
John,
My understanding is that polyester resins form a wax coating during cure.
Polyester resin will bond to polyester after a cure has taken place without
need for mechanical roughening of the surface or chemical cleaning, a
chemical bond occurs and the cured polyester resin gets infiltrated by the
fresh polyester resin.
Epoxy on the other hand, will not stick to epoxy unless it is either still
in the tack phase or has completely cured, but then been mechanically
roughened my sanding.
Epoxy will stick to polyester resin provided it has been thoughly cleaned
with solvents and sanded or other form of mechanical retension made. But the
cleaning issue leaves a question of just how clean and how strong the bond
is.
Please let me know if I have this backward because this has been my belief
for some time from the text which I used in developing my understanding of
composites.
Please no more wars, I'm broke and I have more more aggression left.
John G. 409
>From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 08:52:19 -0700
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
>It's my understanding that epoxy resin will stick/bond to polyester but not
>the other way around.
>Do Not Archive KABONG
>
> "As we all know, epoxy filler doesn't stick too well to polyester parts,
>but
>>polyester fillers do stick to epoxy parts."
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:56 AM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
>
>>
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Fuel tank return fuel line |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Can you tell me what a "bung" is and maybe show a picture of your install?
John J
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank return fuel line
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Jae adding a return line could be an excellent addition. Depending upon
which engine installation you decide upon. e.g. the AFP fuel injection
system have a purge valve to assist hot starts/vapor lock conditions.
Eggenfellner requires one for continuous return of unused fuel. It's an easy
addition that you can always stub off if not needed. Adding it later will be
more difficult (ask me how I know). I found and bought a 'bung' from one of
the RV parts suppliers that can be riveted to the end rib and is already
machined for the An fitting.
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Jae Chang wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang"
>--> <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>
>Does anyone think adding a return fuel line to the fuel tanks, is a bad
>idea? I have seen -7 builder logs add this addition, but not any -10
builders, yet.
>
>If it's a worthwhile task, I notice that the fuel tank ribs have 2
>small identically sized holes for snapbushings on the top side of the
>rib, right below the rib's top flange. The forward-most hole is
>designated in the plans for the vent line. However, was there any
>initial intention for the rear-most hole? As far as I can tell, it looks
like it is ignored.
>
>Do you foresee any problems using this existing rear-most hole for
>putting in snapbushings to hold a fuel-return line?
>
>The only new hole I would need to drill then is in the T-1003B end rib
>to hold the AN hardware. Do you foresee any problems putting a hole in
>the end rib similar to the fuel tank ribs?
>
>Thanks for the feedback,
>Jae
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Actually the canopy/cabin lid/top/fiberglass looking thingy isn't in an
RV-10 but the windscreen and windows are. ;-)
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters
--> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Most likely the canopy is acrylic.
Linn
RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
>--> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
>Epoxy also has a tendency to let go of polyester parts after a while
>and I believe the canopy is made from polyester resin. But I could be
>wrong as I haven't seen my canopy in over a month. I need to get my
>new workshop done!
>
>Michael
>Do not archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:54 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
>I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse and
>figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins"
>left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the
>depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior
>appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for the deeper
>'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The
>Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers progress to keep me from
>wandering too far afield from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was
>doing and in an offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of
>the 2 products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
>months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o
!
>He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
>demonstrate the results.
>
>So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using? And
>where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
>particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
>application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and
>cosmetic only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes
>too long to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it takes
>many many coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
>
>Let the games begin
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Panel/Finishing
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Canopy's are generally something that goes over something, normally your
head. Like Big Top canopy or tree canopy. Really, did anyone actually
not know what we were talking about? :) I know the tips and other
fairings are epoxy. Probably need to check with Van's crappy fiberglass
guy to find out for sure.
I wish I could recall if it's made out of polyester or not but I could
swear that it is. Also, James products like the cowl and plenum are
polyester.
Michael
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez"
--> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
People need to agree on what we are calling each item,
windscreen/windshield, cabin top /roof/canopy?
I don't know what you folks are referring to. My Glider has a canopy
made completely out of acrylic, plexi glass with an epoxy frame.
The 10's cabin top I hope is made from epoxy resin, but I am not certain
because unlike the epoxies I've worked with, this large part has a green
hue
which is more typical of polyester resins that I have used. I don't
think
Van's would use polyester in such an important part as there is much
more shrinkage with polyester, but we need to know!
As we all know, epoxy filler doesn't stick too well to polyester parts,
but polyester fillers do stick to epoxy parts.
I will make a very strong suggestion for a polyester based filler
product.
US chemical makes a super lightweight, sands in 15 minutes or less and
is strong and works great with sandable polyester primers.
US chemicals--Split Second go to:
http://www.uschem.com/products/index.html
click on USC,Morton,Cargroom products, then to professional putties and
then find Split Second.
I faired in my nose and canopy of my sailplane a few years ago and did
all the work and painted it with a matched color of automotive paint and
wet sanded and polished the juction and it is holding up great and you
can't see any difference from the original paint.
JOhn G. 409
Message 28
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| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
I thought the windows get fit from the outside, so technically that are not
in the RV10 either.
>From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 13:15:01 -0500
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
><rvbuilder@sausen.net>
>
>Actually the canopy/cabin lid/top/fiberglass looking thingy isn't in an
>RV-10 but the windscreen and windows are. ;-)
>
>Do not archive.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters
>Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:06 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters
>--> <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
>
>Most likely the canopy is acrylic.
>Linn
>
>RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:
>
> >--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
> >--> <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
> >
> >Epoxy also has a tendency to let go of polyester parts after a while
> >and I believe the canopy is made from polyester resin. But I could be
> >wrong as I haven't seen my canopy in over a month. I need to get my
> >new workshop done!
> >
> >Michael
> >Do not archive
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> >Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:54 PM
> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
> >
> >--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> >
> >I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse and
>
> >figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins"
> >left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the
> >depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior
> >appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for the deeper
> >'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The
> >Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers progress to keep me from
>
> >wandering too far afield from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was
> >doing and in an offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of
> >the 2 products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
> >months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o
>!
> >He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
> >demonstrate the results.
> >
> >So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using? And
> >where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
> >particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
> >application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and
> >cosmetic only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes
>
> >too long to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it takes
> >many many coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
> >
> >Let the games begin
> >
> >Deems Davis # 406
> >Panel/Finishing
> >http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Al fuel vent line cutting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
As for the cutting, I personally don't use any special
cutter...just a nice one from the hardware store.
But, I do run the tube end over the scotchbrite wheel
and then deburr the inside and outside slightly before
I use the rolo-flare tool. You really need to watch
for defects on that edge to prevent cracks when
flaring.
Funny you said that about loaning the RoloFlare tool.
I loaned mine out after I was flying, but sure as shinola
I soon found out I needed it and had to wait until I
could finally (a week or more later) get it back from
the guy. Now you know what I just buy tools instead of
borrow.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rick wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
> Jae,
>
> A good tubing cutter is worth the extra dollars spent. The small
> Rigid cutter has good bearing rollers and fine threads for better
> cutter feed. The cheaper models will not make as clean of a cut and
> tend to bevel the edge a bit too much. I picked mine up at Homedepot
> for about $25. I also have a Parker Rotoflare, hard to swallow price
> but works perfect. Be advised that if you lend it out you will need
> it the next day...Speaking of which Mr. Kaufmann...I need my
> Rotoflare back.
>
> Make sure your using the 37 degree flaring tool for AN fittings.
>
> Rick S. 40185
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jae Chang <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com> Sent: Oct 4, 2006
>> 12:55 PM To: rv10-list@matronics.com Subject: RV10-List: Al fuel
>> vent line cutting
>>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang"
>> <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>>
>> Another quickie question, is it kosher to use a home depot plumbing
>> pipe cutter, for cutting the Al tubes for the fuel vent lines for
>> instance?
>>
>> I guess I still need to buy something like the Parker Flaring Tool
>> to flare the ends?
>>
>> http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=212FB&ReturnPage=/shop/
>> flyer.aspx?PageNo=1
>>
>> Thanks again, Jae
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank return fuel line |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I agree with Deems. I don't have any need for a return line right
now, but it sure would be a pain to add. I think if I were
doing my tanks again I'd probably add a bulkhead fitting slathered
in proseal and capped on the outside. That way if you ever need
a return port you have all the plumbing installed.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Jae adding a return line could be an excellent addition. Depending upon
> which engine installation you decide upon. e.g. the AFP fuel injection
> system have a purge valve to assist hot starts/vapor lock conditions.
> Eggenfellner requires one for continuous return of unused fuel. It's an
> easy addition that you can always stub off if not needed. Adding it
> later will be more difficult (ask me how I know). I found and bought a
> 'bung' from one of the RV parts suppliers that can be riveted to the end
> rib and is already machined for the An fitting.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Panel/Finishing
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Jae Chang wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang"
>> <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>>
>> Does anyone think adding a return fuel line to the fuel tanks, is a
>> bad idea? I
>> have seen -7 builder logs add this addition, but not any -10 builders,
>> yet.
>>
>> If it's a worthwhile task, I notice that the fuel tank ribs have 2 small
>> identically sized holes for snapbushings on the top side of the rib,
>> right below
>> the rib's top flange. The forward-most hole is designated in the plans
>> for the
>> vent line. However, was there any initial intention for the rear-most
>> hole? As
>> far as I can tell, it looks like it is ignored.
>>
>> Do you foresee any problems using this existing rear-most hole for
>> putting in
>> snapbushings to hold a fuel-return line?
>>
>> The only new hole I would need to drill then is in the T-1003B end rib
>> to hold
>> the AN hardware. Do you foresee any problems putting a hole in the end
>> rib
>> similar to the fuel tank ribs?
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>> Jae
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
My life insurance policy excludes coverage for death in, around or
even while looking at a small plane. I'm about to ante up for a new
policy without the aviation exclusion. The premium is about 50%
higher than what I currently have. Before I take the plunge, does
anyone know of another means of getting coverage... perhaps for
flying only... that I've overlooked.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Message 32
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jeffery J. Morgan" <jmorgan@compnetconcepts.com>
Prudential seems to not mind and has very competitive rates. I also
scuba dive and was flagged as a daredevil. :)
Anyway, they are cheaper than most that I found and reasonable about
activities.
If you need an agent, email off list and I can send you mine.
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Carpenter
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Life Insurance
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
My life insurance policy excludes coverage for death in, around or even
while looking at a small plane. I'm about to ante up for a new
policy without the aviation exclusion. The premium is about 50%
higher than what I currently have. Before I take the plunge, does
anyone know of another means of getting coverage... perhaps for flying
only... that I've overlooked.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Life Insurance |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> My life insurance policy excludes coverage for death in, around or
> even while looking at a small plane. I'm about to ante up for a new
> policy without the aviation exclusion. The premium is about 50%
> higher than what I currently have. Before I take the plunge, does
> anyone know of another means of getting coverage... perhaps for flying
> only... that I've overlooked.
>
I went through Minnesota Life for my life insurance - they have an
aviation policy. I think they are associated with the AOPA program if I
remember correctly.
-Dj
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Fuel tank return fuel line |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Has anyone on the list done this and could send pics or a link to their
site?
John Jessen
#40328
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank return fuel line
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
I agree with Deems. I don't have any need for a return line right
now, but it sure would be a pain to add. I think if I were
doing my tanks again I'd probably add a bulkhead fitting slathered in
proseal and capped on the outside. That way if you ever need a return port
you have all the plumbing installed.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Jae adding a return line could be an excellent addition. Depending
> upon which engine installation you decide upon. e.g. the AFP fuel
> injection system have a purge valve to assist hot starts/vapor lock
conditions.
> Eggenfellner requires one for continuous return of unused fuel. It's
> an easy addition that you can always stub off if not needed. Adding it
> later will be more difficult (ask me how I know). I found and bought a
> 'bung' from one of the RV parts suppliers that can be riveted to the
> end rib and is already machined for the An fitting.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Panel/Finishing
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Jae Chang wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang"
>> <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>>
>> Does anyone think adding a return fuel line to the fuel tanks, is a
>> bad idea? I have seen -7 builder logs add this addition, but not any
>> -10 builders, yet.
>>
>> If it's a worthwhile task, I notice that the fuel tank ribs have 2
>> small identically sized holes for snapbushings on the top side of the
>> rib, right below the rib's top flange. The forward-most hole is
>> designated in the plans for the vent line. However, was there any
>> initial intention for the rear-most hole? As far as I can tell, it
>> looks like it is ignored.
>>
>> Do you foresee any problems using this existing rear-most hole for
>> putting in snapbushings to hold a fuel-return line?
>>
>> The only new hole I would need to drill then is in the T-1003B end
>> rib to hold the AN hardware. Do you foresee any problems putting a
>> hole in the end rib similar to the fuel tank ribs?
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>> Jae
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Al fuel vent line cutting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
Being an "old" plumber, A/C contractor I of course use ONLY Ridged cutters.
Three points: #1 make sure the rollers turn freely, #2: Cut slowly, by that
I mean go around more times with smaller additions to the tightening wheel.
#3: Make sure you have the correct cutting wheel. Yes, Virginia there are
different wheels for different materials. Examples: Copper, aluminum,
plastic (PVC, ABS etc), stainless steel. If you buy Harbor Freight you'll
get what they got, buy Ridged and you have a selection of cutter wheels to
choose from. GO SLOW...it will save you time in the long run. KABONG Do Not
Archive (GBA & GWB)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Al fuel vent line cutting
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Al fuel vent line cutting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
I like to cut tubing with a fine toothed hack saw. The HD cutters (and
all the other 'wheel' cutters) will cold form the tubing, reducing the
inside diameter right at the cut. You have to clean that 'rim' out of
the tube before flaring. Lot more work than running a good file across
the saw-cut end.
Linn
do not archive
Jae Chang wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>
>Another quickie question, is it kosher to use a home depot plumbing pipe cutter,
>for cutting the Al tubes for the fuel vent lines for instance?
>
>I guess I still need to buy something like the Parker Flaring Tool to flare the
>ends?
>
>http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/detail.aspx?PRODUCT_ID=212FB&ReturnPage=/shop/
>flyer.aspx?PageNo=1
>
>Thanks again,
>Jae
>
>
>
>
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | Re: Life Insurance |
I don't carry life insurance. Whe whole idea bothers me. You're
betting you're gonna die prematurely, and they're betting you won't.
What's wrong with this picture????
My other point of view ..... Look at the payoff value of the policy
...... In todays market, how long would that last if the lifestyle
didn't change????? I'd rather use the life insurance premium to buy
airplane parts!!!
Linn
do not archive opinionated crap.
Dj Merrill wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
>
>Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>>
>>My life insurance policy excludes coverage for death in, around or
>>even while looking at a small plane. I'm about to ante up for a new
>>policy without the aviation exclusion. The premium is about 50%
>>higher than what I currently have. Before I take the plunge, does
>>anyone know of another means of getting coverage... perhaps for flying
>>only... that I've overlooked.
>>
>>
>>
>
> I went through Minnesota Life for my life insurance - they have an
>aviation policy. I think they are associated with the AOPA program if I
>remember correctly.
>
>-Dj
>
>
>
>
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Life Insurance |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
linn Walters wrote:
>
> My other point of view ..... Look at the payoff value of the policy
> ...... In todays market, how long would that last if the lifestyle
> didn't change????? I'd rather use the life insurance premium to buy
> airplane parts!!!
$400 per year won't buy me a lot of airplane parts, but it will pay
off my house and leave a little left over for the loved ones...
-Dj
do not archive
Message 39
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|
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Bobby J. Hughes" <bhughes@qnsi.net>
Make sure the "Aviation Policy" does not exclude Experimental Aircraft.
I believe some do.
Bobby
40116
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Carpenter
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Life Insurance
--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
My life insurance policy excludes coverage for death in, around or even
while looking at a small plane. I'm about to ante up for a new
policy without the aviation exclusion. The premium is about 50%
higher than what I currently have. Before I take the plunge, does
anyone know of another means of getting coverage... perhaps for flying
only... that I've overlooked.
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Al fuel vent line cutting |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
Thanks for the feedback. I am glad not to have to buy another tool!
jae
Do not archive
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Fuel tank return fuel line |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
I asked Van's support the same question and received this response. I had not
thought about the venting. I guess I will be cutting a couple new holes then.
jae
-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: RV-10: Return fuel lines to tank
The rear hole lets air vent from one bay to another when the tank is being
filled. If it is filled, the tanks will take significantly longer to fill.
Better to make a new hole
Message 42
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|
I agree that it makes sense to have full life cover.
I have chosen to link my life cover with my employer superannuation fund
( in the U.S.A i believe it is called a 401K plan or similar).
Here in Australia employers pay a standard contribution of 9% of
annual salary received. ( once again i am unsure of employer obligations
in the U.S.)
My insurance premiums are deducted from these payments as apposed to my
bank account.
Please do not misunderstand the point im making - I am still paying for
life cover it just doesn't have an effect on my monthly cash flow,
allowing me to spend premium on my plane.
I then inturn monitor the investment performance of my retirement shares
and managed funds (mutual funds) with in this investment in order to
"claw back" premium expenses.
I am fully covered for aviation incidents. ( although I must clarify
experimental category as I was only a G.A pilot when policy commenced)
You would have to look into this carefully as I do not profess to be an
expert on the American retirement planning system.
What ever avenue you chose this area needs to be addressed.
Paul Walter
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Het Allen how's the engine? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Howdy Allen, If I recall correctly it's about time for my engine to get
built, are you still on that schedule? Again, no rush just curious. and
I need a few days to get you the balance. I'm leaving tomorrow and will
be gone til late sun pm.
Best of Luck
Deems
>*
>*
>
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Priming in a confined space |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Fair questions. Would you rather have a spark at the aircraft
connection point or at the ground? Your question implies you are one of
those who is actually practicing the dark art of pointed hats (with
starts and planets affixed) and obsidian rods in their hand.
John
40600
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:32 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Priming in a confined space
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
John,
So what is the procedure THIS year....ground wire connected to ground
first or aircraft first. It seemed the first point connect would change
every year. FWIW, a headphone jack makes a nice grounding point in the
exterior.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
Message 45
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| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Andy Marshall's book is now in its Seventh Printing "Composite Basics"
ISBN 0-9664540-4-9 unfortunately it has gone to Aircraft Technical Books
or maybe it's www.buildersbooks.com and is available in either hard copy
or PDF.
Clearly some out there have no idea which bonds to which and the
difference in long-term shrink of polyester vs. epoxy fillers for E
glass, S Glass, Graphite, Aramid or other advanced materials. Usually
when it comes to composite materials I would conclude the Dentist has
the most training at mixing the stuff.
For the rest of you read the book, don't guess or jump to conclusions.
Or maybe some day Dan Checkoway may become the Composite Guru too.
Plastic planes have beaten this subject blue and Van is light years
behind the curve.
John 40600
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JOHN STARN
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
It's my understanding that epoxy resin will stick/bond to polyester but
not
the other way around.
Do Not Archive KABONG
"As we all know, epoxy filler doesn't stick too well to polyester
parts,
but
> polyester fillers do stick to epoxy parts."
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Fuel tank return fuel line |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
I added a return line to my left tank, because I did not know what engine or
injection system I was going to use and thought it would be a good idea to
prepare just in case. It can always be capped off if not used. It was easy
to put it, and if I need it will be a lot easier than waiting.
Bob K
Working with the stuff that sands to a fine itching powder.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jae Chang
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel tank return fuel line
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang" <jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
Does anyone think adding a return fuel line to the fuel tanks, is a bad
idea? I
have seen -7 builder logs add this addition, but not any -10 builders, yet.
If it's a worthwhile task, I notice that the fuel tank ribs have 2 small
identically sized holes for snapbushings on the top side of the rib, right
below
the rib's top flange. The forward-most hole is designated in the plans for
the
vent line. However, was there any initial intention for the rear-most hole?
As
far as I can tell, it looks like it is ignored.
Do you foresee any problems using this existing rear-most hole for putting
in
snapbushings to hold a fuel-return line?
The only new hole I would need to drill then is in the T-1003B end rib to
hold
the AN hardware. Do you foresee any problems putting a hole in the end rib
similar to the fuel tank ribs?
Thanks for the feedback,
Jae
Message 47
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| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Everyone knows the value of personal opinion. Read Andy's book. I will
forward to you my 10MB PDF file which I archived for posterity. The
rest of you need to get up to speed and read. Deem's, I will bring your
copy on the 26th.
Your post below seems accurate, IMHO. However, Polyester is at the
lowest end of the molecular chain. Epoxy is more complex, more
reliable, more expensive and therefore the only thing our airline will
allow used. Our airline and A&P school brought out silver bullets and
crosses if anyone tried to save effort and money by using the less
acceptable polyester fillers. Proper preparation is dependent on knowing
the substrate, knowing about cohesion, adhesion and the difference of
glue, adhesive and the like. Andy's book is enjoyable reading. I
forwarded to Deem's the actual pictures of three Lancairs who chose
unwisely. Ground yours if you chose less wisely.
Now here is a reasonable question? If you ever try to repair a VANS
canopy how will you know if it's E glass, S glass, epoxy, how many BID
and which adhesive to use. What is the Warp clock layout per BID? Which
method is recommended for proper wetting? Riveting is so much more Black
& White.
Focus your aggression back on whipping those building tasks ahead. I
hear everyone loves to fly the finished item regardless of this banter.
John C. 600 ($00.02)
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez"
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
John,
My understanding is that polyester resins form a wax coating during
cure.
Polyester resin will bond to polyester after a cure has taken place
without
need for mechanical roughening of the surface or chemical cleaning, a
chemical bond occurs and the cured polyester resin gets infiltrated by
the
fresh polyester resin.
Epoxy on the other hand, will not stick to epoxy unless it is either
still
in the tack phase or has completely cured, but then been mechanically
roughened my sanding.
Epoxy will stick to polyester resin provided it has been thoughly
cleaned
with solvents and sanded or other form of mechanical retension made. But
the
cleaning issue leaves a question of just how clean and how strong the
bond
is.
Please let me know if I have this backward because this has been my
belief
for some time from the text which I used in developing my understanding
of
composites.
Please no more wars, I'm broke and I have more more aggression left.
John G. 409
>From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 08:52:19 -0700
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
>It's my understanding that epoxy resin will stick/bond to polyester but
not
>the other way around.
>Do Not Archive KABONG
>
> "As we all know, epoxy filler doesn't stick too well to polyester
parts,
>but
>>polyester fillers do stick to epoxy parts."
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez"
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:56 AM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
>
>>
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: Het Allen how's the engine? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Hay Deems, while you are at it would you send Allen by balance also. It
sure would help me out. ;-)
Do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Howdy Allen, If I recall correctly it's about time for my engine to
> get built, are you still on that schedule? Again, no rush just
> curious. and I need a few days to get you the balance. I'm leaving
> tomorrow and will be gone til late sun pm.
>
> Best of Luck
>
> Deems
>
>
>> *
>> *
>>
>
>
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | rear seat shoulder harness attach |
Not to interrupt the primer/filler discussion but I'd like to ask if
everyone/anyone is using the longeron attach points for the rear seat
shoulder harness or mounting to a hard point on the cabin top? BTW:
Dentists have'nt mixed composite for years, Comes ready to use, sans
air bubbles that were introduced by the mixing process. The curing
reaction is initiated by light. Something to do with peroxide, free
radicals etc. etc. Thought you might like to know.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 50
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Oop's ,this was obviously supposed to go direct to Allen Barrett, I've
spent too much time on the keyboard today, need to go aout and do some
more sanding. :-[
Do No Archive
Deems
Message 51
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|
| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
Guys,
Hate to state the obvious, but any reason why we would not follow the
guidelines in Plans Section 5T (particularly 'Prepping the Cowling for
Paint') for all of the glass work?? Unless there is a compelling reason
not to, this is what I have planned for the lid (this coming weekend).
cheers,
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of gary
Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2006 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: "gary" <speckter@comcast.net>
For those of you new to composits there are two products that you should
not
be without. Superfil by Poly-Fiber and UV Smooth Prime Filler. The
first is
a body filler but it is light weight and sands easily. It goes on easy
and
comes off easy. This is a must, for get the bondo. The second is for
pin
holes in the composits. It to works great. Both are pricy but as they
say
you get what you pay for. Spruce has both of them.
Gary
40274
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse and
figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins"
left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the
depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior
appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for the deeper
'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The
Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers progress to keep me from
wandering too far afield from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was
doing and in an offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of
the 2 products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o
! He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
demonstrate the results.
So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using? And
where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and cosmetic
only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes too long
to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it takes many many
coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
Let the games begin
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 52
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|
| Subject: | rear seat shoulder harness attach |
Longeron attach points in my machine.
Marcus
40286
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hasbrouck
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: rear seat shoulder harness attach
Not to interrupt the primer/filler discussion but I'd like to ask if
everyone/anyone is using the longeron attach points for the rear seat
shoulder harness or mounting to a hard point on the cabin top? BTW:
Dentists have'nt mixed composite for years, Comes ready to use, sans air
bubbles that were introduced by the mixing process. The curing reaction is
initiated by light. Something to do with peroxide, free radicals etc. etc.
Thought you might like to know.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Filler wars - Part I |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
ROFLMAO
Bob K
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:40 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Everyone knows the value of personal opinion. Read Andy's book. I will
forward to you my 10MB PDF file which I archived for posterity. The
rest of you need to get up to speed and read. Deem's, I will bring your
copy on the 26th.
Your post below seems accurate, IMHO. However, Polyester is at the
lowest end of the molecular chain. Epoxy is more complex, more
reliable, more expensive and therefore the only thing our airline will
allow used. Our airline and A&P school brought out silver bullets and
crosses if anyone tried to save effort and money by using the less
acceptable polyester fillers. Proper preparation is dependent on knowing
the substrate, knowing about cohesion, adhesion and the difference of
glue, adhesive and the like. Andy's book is enjoyable reading. I
forwarded to Deem's the actual pictures of three Lancairs who chose
unwisely. Ground yours if you chose less wisely.
Now here is a reasonable question? If you ever try to repair a VANS
canopy how will you know if it's E glass, S glass, epoxy, how many BID
and which adhesive to use. What is the Warp clock layout per BID? Which
method is recommended for proper wetting? Riveting is so much more Black
& White.
Focus your aggression back on whipping those building tasks ahead. I
hear everyone loves to fly the finished item regardless of this banter.
John C. 600 ($00.02)
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez"
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
John,
My understanding is that polyester resins form a wax coating during
cure.
Polyester resin will bond to polyester after a cure has taken place
without
need for mechanical roughening of the surface or chemical cleaning, a
chemical bond occurs and the cured polyester resin gets infiltrated by
the
fresh polyester resin.
Epoxy on the other hand, will not stick to epoxy unless it is either
still
in the tack phase or has completely cured, but then been mechanically
roughened my sanding.
Epoxy will stick to polyester resin provided it has been thoughly
cleaned
with solvents and sanded or other form of mechanical retension made. But
the
cleaning issue leaves a question of just how clean and how strong the
bond
is.
Please let me know if I have this backward because this has been my
belief
for some time from the text which I used in developing my understanding
of
composites.
Please no more wars, I'm broke and I have more more aggression left.
John G. 409
>From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 08:52:19 -0700
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
>
>It's my understanding that epoxy resin will stick/bond to polyester but
not
>the other way around.
>Do Not Archive KABONG
>
> "As we all know, epoxy filler doesn't stick too well to polyester
parts,
>but
>>polyester fillers do stick to epoxy parts."
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "John Gonzalez"
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:56 AM
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
>
>>
>
>
Message 54
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank return fuel line |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
John, I just checked briefly in the shop to see if I could lay my hands
on the part, but it will take more digging and I'm packing for a trip.
It looks very similar to the fitting that Van's supplies for the fuel tank:
http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2018%20Fuel%20Tanks/slides/DSC01452.html
except the "bung" is completely round, If i can remember I'll find it
and post a pic when I return.
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
John Jessen wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
>
>Has anyone on the list done this and could send pics or a link to their
>site?
>
>John Jessen
> #40328
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
>Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 11:47 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel tank return fuel line
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
>I agree with Deems. I don't have any need for a return line right
>now, but it sure would be a pain to add. I think if I were
>doing my tanks again I'd probably add a bulkhead fitting slathered in
>proseal and capped on the outside. That way if you ever need a return port
>you have all the plumbing installed.
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>Deems Davis wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>>Jae adding a return line could be an excellent addition. Depending
>>upon which engine installation you decide upon. e.g. the AFP fuel
>>injection system have a purge valve to assist hot starts/vapor lock
>>
>>
>conditions.
>
>
>>Eggenfellner requires one for continuous return of unused fuel. It's
>>an easy addition that you can always stub off if not needed. Adding it
>>later will be more difficult (ask me how I know). I found and bought a
>>'bung' from one of the RV parts suppliers that can be riveted to the
>>end rib and is already machined for the An fitting.
>>
>>Deems Davis # 406
>>Panel/Finishing
>>http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>>Jae Chang wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jae Chang"
>>><jc-matronics_rv10@jline.com>
>>>
>>>Does anyone think adding a return fuel line to the fuel tanks, is a
>>>bad idea? I have seen -7 builder logs add this addition, but not any
>>>-10 builders, yet.
>>>
>>>If it's a worthwhile task, I notice that the fuel tank ribs have 2
>>>small identically sized holes for snapbushings on the top side of the
>>>rib, right below the rib's top flange. The forward-most hole is
>>>designated in the plans for the vent line. However, was there any
>>>initial intention for the rear-most hole? As far as I can tell, it
>>>looks like it is ignored.
>>>
>>>Do you foresee any problems using this existing rear-most hole for
>>>putting in snapbushings to hold a fuel-return line?
>>>
>>>The only new hole I would need to drill then is in the T-1003B end
>>>rib to hold the AN hardware. Do you foresee any problems putting a
>>>hole in the end rib similar to the fuel tank ribs?
>>>
>>>Thanks for the feedback,
>>>Jae
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 55
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|
| Subject: | Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I have posted on my web site the electrical schematic and load analysis
that I am considering. The electrical design is a single battery, dual
alternator design. Comment if you would.
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Electic/index.html>
Thanks to all who have before for a great load analysis layout for the .
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
Message 56
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|
| Subject: | Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
I would consider a dual battery instead of a dual alternator.
Bob K
All I know about electricity is that the paddles tingle after the juice goes
into them.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I have posted on my web site the electrical schematic and load analysis
that I am considering. The electrical design is a single battery, dual
alternator design. Comment if you would.
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Electic/index.html>
Thanks to all who have before for a great load analysis layout for the .
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
Message 57
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|
| Subject: | Change In Status |
--> RV10-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca>
Hi
After three days in Oregon, two demo flights, a project visit and a two day sheet
metal course, I have decided to upgrade my "RV10 Wannabe" status to "RV10 Awaiting
Empennage Kit". Being at this point in the build process is a bit daunting.
To this point all I have spent is time and a few dollars setting up my garage.
Now the real fun & spend begins!
On Monday I spent a couple of hours at Van's factory which included a plant floor
tour and a demo flight in N210RV, Van's demo '10. The 20 minute demo flight
was impressive in how the '10 accelerates, climbs and flies. I was given the
chance to do a few turns etc and liked the impressive visability and the easy
handling of the stick. This was my first time flying in the right seat and with
a stick.
The only realy disappointment was the "utilitarian" look of the demo '10. It also
seemed a bit noisy but this may be due to the lack of soundproofing. It would
have been nice it it had a more complete interior and a "state of the possible"
panel.
Monday evening Randy Debauw was kind enough to give me a flight in his '10. This
was a lot more fun as he let me fly and land (*albeit with gentle guidance*)
at a nearby airport. This gave me a much better feel for the '10.
Tuesday I spent the day at Henry Gorgas' shop and started on a sheet metal workshop.
Henry is very particular about how things should be done and took great
pains to explain why he did things the way he did. Under his careful instruction
I have a project piece that has examples of every type of defective rivertting
including an absolutely stellar mushroom rivet.
Tuesday night I spent a couple of hours with Bruce Radke getting a tour of his
project. I now have an appreciation how how much composite work the '10 involves.
Wednesday I spent another day with Henry an completed my airfoil project. My rivetting
has improved *somewhat* and I learned how to drill out rivets. Somehow,
I think this will be an important skill.
After finishing my sheet metal class I zipped over to Van's and asked to see the
quick build kits again, took a few pictures and bought my empennage kit.
This list and the wonderfully detailed websites of those who have already built
a '10 will be major build resource for me.
Cheers
Les
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Direct2 issue |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa@antelecom.net>
Thanks!
Kevin
40494
tail/empennage
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:05 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Direct2 issue
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mark Ritter" <mritter509@msn.com>
>
> Kevin,
>
> The Garmin MX-20 has its own data base (another subscription fee). It
> talks to the G430 and displays GPS flight plan route, etc. There are
> three map pages (1) VFR map page that looks like a sectional map, (2) IFR
> map page that has victor airways, intersections, etc., (3) Custom map page
> which is a sectional map page but with the ability add or delete items.
> It has a ton of features and options like XM weather and radio and
> approach chart display - too numerous to mention here. It is also very
> easy to learn how to use the features.
>
> Mark
Message 59
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| Subject: | Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
Really? I guess as Bob N. says, your design goals must be the deciding
factor on your decision.
Either option is viable. And even though the U.S. Army doesn't get it right
all the time, they've opted for a single battery, dual alternator design in
their single-engine helicopters. Of course, the option for the 2d battery
is there, but that's usually left for cold-soaked aircraft needing the amps
to start in the middle of the night with no ground power units available.
Now if you plan on a hangared plane where you can hook up a ground power
cable if it's too cold, you may want to choose the single battery/dual
alternator setup. Then you don't have to immediately start the 30 minute
"my-battery-is-going-dead" clock if your only alternator fails that powers
your glass panel.
I'm sure there are some more nice battery/alternator wars in the
aeroelectric list archives that go into choices due to weight, c.g., spare
engine pads, etc. in addition to original design goals.
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob.kaufmann
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic
--> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann@cox.net>
I would consider a dual battery instead of a dual alternator.
Bob K
All I know about electricity is that the paddles tingle after the juice goes
into them.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
I have posted on my web site the electrical schematic and load analysis
that I am considering. The electrical design is a single battery, dual
alternator design. Comment if you would.
<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Electic/index.html>
Thanks to all who have before for a great load analysis layout for the .
--
Larry Rosen
RV-10 #356
http://lrosen.nerv10.com
Message 60
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| Subject: | Change In Status |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Jessen" <jjessen@rcn.com>
Les, it was good meeting you. I know you'll be just as thrilled and hooked
as we all appear to be. Not only is it a great plane, but the support group
you now have is even better. Enjoy!
John Jessen
#40328 (the guy priming his tailcone parts)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Change In Status
--> RV10-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca>
Hi
After three days in Oregon, two demo flights, a project visit and a two day
sheet metal course, I have decided to upgrade my "RV10 Wannabe" status to
"RV10 Awaiting Empennage Kit". Being at this point in the build process is a
bit daunting. To this point all I have spent is time and a few dollars
setting up my garage. Now the real fun & spend begins!
On Monday I spent a couple of hours at Van's factory which included a plant
floor tour and a demo flight in N210RV, Van's demo '10. The 20 minute demo
flight was impressive in how the '10 accelerates, climbs and flies. I was
given the chance to do a few turns etc and liked the impressive visability
and the easy handling of the stick. This was my first time flying in the
right seat and with a stick.
The only realy disappointment was the "utilitarian" look of the demo '10. It
also seemed a bit noisy but this may be due to the lack of soundproofing. It
would have been nice it it had a more complete interior and a "state of the
possible" panel.
Monday evening Randy Debauw was kind enough to give me a flight in his '10.
This was a lot more fun as he let me fly and land (*albeit with gentle
guidance*) at a nearby airport. This gave me a much better feel for the '10.
Tuesday I spent the day at Henry Gorgas' shop and started on a sheet metal
workshop. Henry is very particular about how things should be done and took
great pains to explain why he did things the way he did. Under his careful
instruction I have a project piece that has examples of every type of
defective rivertting including an absolutely stellar mushroom rivet.
Tuesday night I spent a couple of hours with Bruce Radke getting a tour of
his project. I now have an appreciation how how much composite work the '10
involves.
Wednesday I spent another day with Henry an completed my airfoil project. My
rivetting has improved *somewhat* and I learned how to drill out rivets.
Somehow, I think this will be an important skill.
After finishing my sheet metal class I zipped over to Van's and asked to see
the quick build kits again, took a few pictures and bought my empennage kit.
This list and the wonderfully detailed websites of those who have already
built a '10 will be major build resource for me.
Cheers
Les
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