Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:40 AM - Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach (Russell Daves)
2. 04:10 AM - Re: Change In Status (Michael Wellenzohn)
3. 04:27 AM - Re: Re: FLYING!!!! (Rob Kermanj)
4. 04:56 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (Rob Kermanj)
5. 05:08 AM - Re: Backup Instrumentation (Rob Kermanj)
6. 05:18 AM - Re: QB Wings and Standard Fuselage (Rob Kermanj)
7. 05:55 AM - Re: Change In Status (Rob Kermanj)
8. 06:22 AM - Re: Life Insurance (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
9. 06:32 AM - Re: Change In Status (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
10. 06:42 AM - Fuel tanks (Fred Williams, M.D.)
11. 06:58 AM - Re: Grounding was Priming in a confined space (Rick)
12. 07:12 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (Deems Davis)
13. 07:37 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (Rick)
14. 07:39 AM - Re: Filler wars - Part I (James K Hovis)
15. 07:45 AM - Re: Grounding was Priming in a confined space (Kelly McMullen)
16. 07:53 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (Rene Felker)
17. 08:11 AM - Re: Change In Status (Phillips, Jack)
18. 09:09 AM - Re: Fuel tanks (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
19. 09:39 AM - Re: Grounding (linn Walters)
20. 09:44 AM - Re: Grounding was Priming in a confined space (linn Walters)
21. 10:17 AM - Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach, (John Gonzalez)
22. 12:47 PM - ES 24115 Master Relay (jdalton77)
23. 12:55 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (David Maib)
24. 01:10 PM - Re: ES 24115 Master Relay (Rob Kermanj)
25. 01:13 PM - Re: ES 24115 Master Relay (Condrey, Bob (US SSA))
26. 01:56 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (W. Curtis)
27. 02:11 PM - Re: Fuel tanks (W. Curtis)
28. 02:21 PM - West System product 410 (Chris , Susie Darcy)
29. 02:28 PM - Re: Direct2 issue (Kirk Hammersmith)
30. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tanks (Russell Daves)
31. 03:15 PM - Fuel tanks (Fred Williams, M.D.)
32. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tanks (Rene Felker)
33. 03:37 PM - Re: West System product 410 (Rob Kermanj)
34. 03:47 PM - QB Floor Pans (Rob Wright)
35. 03:55 PM - Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach, (John Hasbrouck)
36. 04:15 PM - Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach, (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
37. 04:25 PM - Re: QB Floor Pans (Larry Rosen)
38. 04:59 PM - Re: QB Wings and Standard Fuselage (johngoodman)
39. 05:12 PM - Re: QB Floor Pans (Les Kearney)
40. 05:38 PM - : Hugo Rv10#40456 ()
41. 06:00 PM - Re: QB Floor Pans (Tim Olson)
42. 06:01 PM - Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach, (Tim Olson)
43. 06:23 PM - Re: QB Floor Pans (Chris , Susie Darcy)
44. 06:35 PM - Re: QB Floor Pans (McGANN, Ron)
45. 06:36 PM - Tools, Tools, Tools (Les Kearney)
46. 06:45 PM - Re: Flap Trailing Edge (Chris)
47. 06:49 PM - Re: Backup Instrumentation (Marcus Cooper)
48. 06:49 PM - Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach, (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
49. 07:01 PM - Re: Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
50. 08:15 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tanks (Rob Wright)
51. 08:22 PM - Re: QB Floor Pans (Rob Wright)
52. 08:26 PM - Shoulder harness redo (John Hasbrouck)
53. 09:33 PM - Re: Re: Fuel tanks (bob.kaufmann)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach |
I used the longeron attach points in N710RV.
Russ Daves
First Flight 7/28/06
See you at LOE 2006
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hasbrouck
To: RV LIST
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 8:17 PM
Subject: RV10-List: rear seat shoulder harness attach
Not to interrupt the primer/filler discussion but I'd like to ask if
everyone/anyone is using the longeron attach points for the rear seat
shoulder harness or mounting to a hard point on the cabin top? BTW:
Dentists have'nt mixed composite for years, Comes ready to use, sans
air bubbles that were introduced by the mixing process. The curing
reaction is initiated by light. Something to do with peroxide, free
radicals etc. etc. Thought you might like to know.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Change In Status |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn" <michael@wellenzohn.net>
Hi Les,
When I visited Vans last year I did nearly the same as you did. Visited Vans, and
did my riveting class at Henrys workshop. It helped me alot and now I am ready
to order the wings. Its a fantastic community. So have fun building!
Cheers
Michael
http://www.wellenzohn.net
--------
RV-10 builder
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65932#65932
Message 3
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Congratulation to Jim and Julie. Keep us updated on performance as
you fly off your hours.
Do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 2, 2006, at 9:16 PM, zackrv8 wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "zackrv8" <zackrv8@verizon.net>
>
> Jim and Julie,
>
> Congrats on the first flight. I know how excited you both must
> be. Especially after building a slow build kit in a year and a
> half! Your plane looks great!
>
> Hope to hear more of your phase 1 testing when you get a chance.
>
> Did you buy the "Experimental" version of the new Lycoming?
>
> Zack
>
>
> Jim & Julie Wade wrote:
>> Ok I will try and answer all the question in one reply
>> Brian Having some start up problems with BMA, but they are great
>> folks to work with and should have things sorted soon. Looks like
>> great equipment so far.
>>
>> Tim, changed my email on this site, had my old one on, try the new
>> one.
>> Also the rudder was out a full ball. Dropped my right flap a
>> little, helped, but went on and put a rudder trim tab on and all
>> is well now. That is with wheel fairings.
>>
>> John, it is the new I0-540 Van's sell. Attaching a pic. Will have
>> some flying soon and a few of the panel lit up!!!
>
>
> --------
> RV8 #80125
> RV10 # 40512
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65364#65364
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Filler wars - Part I |
You can use the West System epoxy (products 105 and 205) mixed with
West System product 410. 410 is a very light weight filler that
sands well. Mix the product dry for deep holes and a little wet for
final filling to minimize pin holes. for the final coat, use all
three products as a liquid slurry to fill the pin holes.
do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 3, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse
> and figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous
> veins" left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill
> the depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic
> interior appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for
> the deeper 'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more
> shallow. John 'The Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers
> progress to keep me from wandering too far afield from 'acceptable'
> practices. Noted what I was doing and in an offline e-mail
> diplomatically informed me that both of the 2 products I was using
> have histories of shrinking after 18-24 months of use, and
> particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o ! He sent me
> some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
> demonstrate the results.
>
> So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using?
> And where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
> particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
> application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and
> cosmetic only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro
> takes too long to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it
> takes many many coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
>
> Let the games begin
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Panel/Finishing
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Backup Instrumentation |
I agree that back up instrumentation is a MUST. I just wanted to say
that my Grand Rapid units have performed perfect for 80+ hours.
There have been no performance issues. I do have issues with menus
and some functions but nothing on it's reliability.
Depending on the kind of flying you do, GRT might be a good system
for you.
Customer service is the best and my units arrived couple of weeks early.
Do not archive.
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 3, 2006, at 9:58 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> So with pretty much every EFIS we've now heard that there's a problem
> of one sort of another. For those who are planning an EFIS, even
> a reliable and expensive one, don't forget to put backup gauges in
> for the critical stuff. I've seen a few EFIS-only panels already,
> and I can't help but think there's something to be said for
> non-electric, or at least self contained backups.
>
> Check out this story on a G1000.
> http://www.alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm
>
>
> And I got a copy of this service alert from Avidyne.
> http://www.myrv10.com/files/avidyne/SA-05-001.pdf
> You'll see that even they now specify backup instruments after
> having issues with their systems.
>
> So I haven't heard of an EFIS yet that doesn't have at least some
> issue. Dynon's were previously famous for losing attitude when
> the system loses airspeed. BMA has had all sorts of things.
> Chelton has had the Crossbow 425 stuff. OP tech has had some
> interesting issues. So plan your panels accordingly....and
> remember these things are programmed by humans....hopefully not
> the same ones who wrote Windows 95. :)
>
> --
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: QB Wings and Standard Fuselage |
Yes. This is the way I did mine. Contrary to popular belief, the
wing and fuselage spars are not matched, they are all
interchangeable. In other words, I can install my wings on your
fuselage.
Do not archive.
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 4, 2006, at 8:47 AM, Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Michael Wellenzohn"
> <michael@wellenzohn.net>
>
> Hello everybody,
>
> I am starting soon with the tailcone so its time to order the next
> kit parts.
>
> Is ist possible to order the QB wings and have the standard
> fuselage shipped first (without the ) so that I can still keep
> on building without having to wait until the Wings are ready.
>
> If Wings and Fuse would be delivered at the same time I'd face some
> space problems.
>
> Any experience out there in the community?
>
> Cheers
> Michael
> #40511
>
> http://www.wellenzohn.net
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder
> #511
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65693#65693
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Change In Status |
It looks like you are already having too much fun! Wait until you
finish the 10.
Do not archive.
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 4, 2006, at 10:47 PM, LES KEARNEY wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca>
>
> Hi
>
> After three days in Oregon, two demo flights, a project visit and a
> two day sheet metal course, I have decided to upgrade my "RV10
> Wannabe" status to "RV10 Awaiting Empennage Kit". Being at this
> point in the build process is a bit daunting. To this point all I
> have spent is time and a few dollars setting up my garage. Now the
> real fun & spend begins!
>
> On Monday I spent a couple of hours at Van's factory which included
> a plant floor tour and a demo flight in N210RV, Van's demo '10. The
> 20 minute demo flight was impressive in how the '10 accelerates,
> climbs and flies. I was given the chance to do a few turns etc and
> liked the impressive visability and the easy handling of the stick.
> This was my first time flying in the right seat and with a stick.
>
> The only realy disappointment was the "utilitarian" look of the
> demo '10. It also seemed a bit noisy but this may be due to the
> lack of soundproofing. It would have been nice it it had a more
> complete interior and a "state of the possible" panel.
>
> Monday evening Randy Debauw was kind enough to give me a flight in
> his '10. This was a lot more fun as he let me fly and land (*albeit
> with gentle guidance*) at a nearby airport. This gave me a much
> better feel for the '10.
>
> Tuesday I spent the day at Henry Gorgas' shop and started on a
> sheet metal workshop. Henry is very particular about how things
> should be done and took great pains to explain why he did things
> the way he did. Under his careful instruction I have a project
> piece that has examples of every type of defective rivertting
> including an absolutely stellar mushroom rivet.
>
> Tuesday night I spent a couple of hours with Bruce Radke getting a
> tour of his project. I now have an appreciation how how much
> composite work the '10 involves.
>
> Wednesday I spent another day with Henry an completed my airfoil
> project. My rivetting has improved *somewhat* and I learned how to
> drill out rivets. Somehow, I think this will be an important skill.
>
> After finishing my sheet metal class I zipped over to Van's and
> asked to see the quick build kits again, took a few pictures and
> bought my empennage kit.
>
> This list and the wonderfully detailed websites of those who have
> already built a '10 will be major build resource for me.
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
I went through New York Life, they didn't exclude aviation and treated
it as a slightly higher risk. Barely made a change to the premium but
it had to be disclosed.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dj Merrill
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:26 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Life Insurance
--> RV10-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@deej.net>
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter
> --> <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> My life insurance policy excludes coverage for death in, around or
> even while looking at a small plane. I'm about to ante up for a new
> policy without the aviation exclusion. The premium is about 50%
> higher than what I currently have. Before I take the plunge, does
> anyone know of another means of getting coverage... perhaps for flying
> only... that I've overlooked.
>
I went through Minnesota Life for my life insurance - they have an
aviation policy. I think they are associated with the AOPA program if I
remember correctly.
-Dj
Message 9
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| Subject: | Change In Status |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
Congrats Les! NO worries about that riveting proficiency, after a few
flubs you will get real good a drilling them back out. ;-)
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage - Stuck in limbo
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Change In Status
--> RV10-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca>
Hi
After three days in Oregon, two demo flights, a project visit and a two
day sheet metal course, I have decided to upgrade my "RV10 Wannabe"
status to "RV10 Awaiting Empennage Kit". Being at this point in the
build process is a bit daunting. To this point all I have spent is time
and a few dollars setting up my garage. Now the real fun & spend begins!
On Monday I spent a couple of hours at Van's factory which included a
plant floor tour and a demo flight in N210RV, Van's demo '10. The 20
minute demo flight was impressive in how the '10 accelerates, climbs and
flies. I was given the chance to do a few turns etc and liked the
impressive visability and the easy handling of the stick. This was my
first time flying in the right seat and with a stick.
The only realy disappointment was the "utilitarian" look of the demo
'10. It also seemed a bit noisy but this may be due to the lack of
soundproofing. It would have been nice it it had a more complete
interior and a "state of the possible" panel.
Monday evening Randy Debauw was kind enough to give me a flight in his
'10. This was a lot more fun as he let me fly and land (*albeit with
gentle guidance*) at a nearby airport. This gave me a much better feel
for the '10.
Tuesday I spent the day at Henry Gorgas' shop and started on a sheet
metal workshop. Henry is very particular about how things should be done
and took great pains to explain why he did things the way he did. Under
his careful instruction I have a project piece that has examples of
every type of defective rivertting including an absolutely stellar
mushroom rivet.
Tuesday night I spent a couple of hours with Bruce Radke getting a tour
of his project. I now have an appreciation how how much composite work
the '10 involves.
Wednesday I spent another day with Henry an completed my airfoil
project. My rivetting has improved *somewhat* and I learned how to drill
out rivets. Somehow, I think this will be an important skill.
After finishing my sheet metal class I zipped over to Van's and asked to
see the quick build kits again, took a few pictures and bought my
empennage kit.
This list and the wonderfully detailed websites of those who have
already built a '10 will be major build resource for me.
Cheers
Les
Message 10
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@cox-internet.com>
I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What fitting would
be the best? What is typically used?
Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the aileron/flap
acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
Thanks.
Fred
Proseal is fun........it's the MEK to clean it up that's the problem.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Grounding was Priming in a confined space |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
After being battered by all the ground safety & QA types in the USAF, then becoming
one......hmmmm, funny how that works, I was surprised to see the lack of
grounding and bonding procedures in general aviation short of the line truck's
cable wheel. I guess when you remove the electrically primed munitions and impulse
cartriges from the mix grounding doesn't seem high on the list. I can tell
you I have felt head smacking (F-4 centerline tank, bottom of fuselage very
close to head) static electricity while pinning up aircraft after flight, prior
to shut down. Imagine your surprise when you see that spark jump from the
fuel nozzel to the tank opening as your getting ready to pump. I still can't walk
up to an airplane without the words, "Aircraft positioned, chocked and grounded"
going through my head.
Rick S.
40185
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>Sent: Oct 4, 2006 5:07 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Priming in a confined space
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
>Fair questions. Would you rather have a spark at the aircraft
>connection point or at the ground? Your question implies you are one of
>those who is actually practicing the dark art of pointed hats (with
>starts and planets affixed) and obsidian rods in their hand.
>
>John
>40600
>Do not Archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick
>Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 6:32 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Priming in a confined space
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
>John,
>
>So what is the procedure THIS year....ground wire connected to ground
>first or aircraft first. It seemed the first point connect would change
>every year. FWIW, a headphone jack makes a nice grounding point in the
>exterior.
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>
>do not archive
>
>
Message 12
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I haven't installed them yet, (wings are stored @ airport)but here's
what I got to plumb a return line into one of my tanks.
http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D."
> <drfred@cox-internet.com>
>
> I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
> installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What fitting
> would be the best? What is typically used?
> Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
> completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the
> aileron/flap acutation systems. Are most builders putting off
> attaching the bottom skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation
> system is complete?
> Thanks.
>
> Fred
>
> Proseal is fun........it's the MEK to clean it up that's the problem.
>
>
Message 13
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
It is a bear to rivet the bottom skins on with the aileron hardware installed,
if not impossible in some spots. I did my skins with the tanks on but would have
been easier with them off, just make sure no warps, the tanks help keep everything
straight while the bottoms go on. An an 6 fitting bulkhead fitting should
be adequate to allow you to attach a return line to, a 4 might work but you
will need to know the return flow volumn and rate to make sure.
Rick S.
40185
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@cox-internet.com>
>Sent: Oct 5, 2006 6:38 AM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: Fuel tanks
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@cox-internet.com>
>
>I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
>installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What fitting would
>be the best? What is typically used?
>
>Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
>completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the aileron/flap
>acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
>skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Fred
>
>Proseal is fun........it's the MEK to clean it up that's the problem.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Filler wars - Part I |
West System epoxy is pretty similar to Hysol's EA960 and EA956. One
alternative I've used in other applications (modeling battleships) is to use
glass micro-balloons mixed with epoxy. I get the micro-balloons from a hobby
shop in quart bottles and the product looks similar to the West System's
product. The only drawback is mixing the micro-balloons into straight epoxy,
it's difficult to get a good mix. Solution is to thin the epoxy somewhat
with acetone to make it flow a little better. For good bonding on the outer
moldline of the cockpit cover, I wouldn't thin epoxy no more than 10 - 15%
with acetone by volume.
For a useful hint, a repair process used for fiberglass delams open to an
edge or around a fastener hole is to use EA956 and heat the fiberglass to
150 deg. Apply with a brush and watch the epoxy wick into the delam. Keep
heat on the part for an hour for rapid cure. Hypodermics and witness holes
can be used for more internal, not open to edge delams.
James Hovis.
On 10/5/06, Rob Kermanj <flysrv10@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> You can use the West System epoxy (products 105 and 205) mixed with West
> System product 410. 410 is a very light weight filler that sands well. Mix
> the product dry for deep holes and a little wet for final filling to
> minimize pin holes. for the final coat, use all three products as a liquid
> slurry to fill the pin holes.
>
> do not archive
> Rob Kermanj
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
>
> I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse and
> figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins" left
> from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the depressions/hills
> and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior appearance. I merrily
> began this process using Bondo for the deeper 'valleys' and a product called
> 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The Turbinator" Cox who monitors this
> grasshoppers progress to keep me from wandering too far afield from
> 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was doing and in an offline e-mail
> diplomatically informed me that both of the 2 products I was using have
> histories of shrinking after 18-24 months of use, and particularly when
> exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o ! He sent me some pictures from some
> Lancair projects to dramatically demonstrate the results.
>
>
> So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using? And
> where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience particularly
> from anybody that's already solved this problem. The application I'm using
> it for, is definitely Non Structural, and cosmetic only, so I don't
> need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes too long to set up to be able
> to sand. as I'm finding that it takes many many coats/layers of filler to
> get a smooth surface.
>
>
> Let the games begin
>
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Panel/Finishing
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> - The RV10-List Email Forum -
> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
> --> http://forums.matronics.com
> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
> --> http://wiki.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> Thank you for your generous support!
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding was Priming in a confined space |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Substantially more potential for static buildup when you fly Mach 2.
Also much greater potential in dry climates and in heated spaces in
the winter. I used to get jolts in the earpiece all the time when
working in tower cab in Fairbanks AK in the winter, when rel humidity
indoors was in single digits. Reaching for any switch could generate
1-2 inch discharges.
Along same lines, have NEVER understood why fuel truck drivers want to
connect to exhaust stack. Grounding path through exhaust joints and
engine to fuel tanks is a whole lot poorer than from wing tiedown ring
to wing fuel tank. How many are careful to touch fuel nozzle to the
inlet before starting fuel flow, and keep it touching metal while
dispensing? It is the flow of the fuel that creates additional static
buildup, faster the flow, greater the potential.
do not archive
On 10/5/06, Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
> After being battered by all the ground safety & QA types in the USAF, then becoming
one......hmmmm, funny how that works, I was surprised to see the lack
of grounding and bonding procedures in general aviation short of the line truck's
cable wheel. I guess when you remove the electrically primed munitions and
impulse cartriges from the mix grounding doesn't seem high on the list. I can
tell you I have felt head smacking (F-4 centerline tank, bottom of fuselage very
close to head) static electricity while pinning up aircraft after flight,
prior to shut down. Imagine your surprise when you see that spark jump from the
fuel nozzel to the tank opening as your getting ready to pump. I still can't
walk up to an airplane without the words, "Aircraft positioned, chocked and grounded"
going through my head.
>
> Rick S.
> 40185
Message 16
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rene Felker" <rene@felker.com>
I skipped around and did the fuel tanks, leading edge (outboard), flaps, and
ailerons before I started the main part of the wing. I did not put the
bottom skin on until the very end........riveting the bottom skin was a pain
in the ..... arm, back, etc.
Rene' Felker
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Williams,
M.D.
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel tanks
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D."
<drfred@cox-internet.com>
I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What fitting would
be the best? What is typically used?
Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the aileron/flap
acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
Thanks.
Fred
Proseal is fun........it's the MEK to clean it up that's the problem.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Change In Status |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Phillips, Jack" <Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com>
Good for you, Les
I'm doing things somewhat backwards. I got my empennage kit at the end
of July, and have finished the vertical stabilizer and rudder and am
about halfway through the horizontal stabilizer. This weekend I'm
flying to Oregon with my wife. She's a Professor at NC State University
and is speaking at a conference in Bend. While she's talking on Monday
(I've heard her speak before), I'll drive to Aurora and go through the
Van's factory. I'll try to wheedle a ride in the -10 there, but since I
own and fly an RV-4 I doubt I'll qualify for their rules for a demo
flight.
You'll love the kit. I continue to be amazed at how well things fit
together.
Jack Phillips
#40610
Raleigh, NC
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:48 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Change In Status
--> RV10-List message posted by: LES KEARNEY <Kearney@shaw.ca>
Hi
After three days in Oregon, two demo flights, a project visit and a two
day sheet metal course, I have decided to upgrade my "RV10 Wannabe"
status to "RV10 Awaiting Empennage Kit". Being at this point in the
build process is a bit daunting. To this point all I have spent is time
and a few dollars setting up my garage. Now the real fun & spend begins!
On Monday I spent a couple of hours at Van's factory which included a
plant floor tour and a demo flight in N210RV, Van's demo '10. The 20
minute demo flight was impressive in how the '10 accelerates, climbs and
flies. I was given the chance to do a few turns etc and liked the
impressive visability and the easy handling of the stick. This was my
first time flying in the right seat and with a stick.
The only realy disappointment was the "utilitarian" look of the demo
'10. It also seemed a bit noisy but this may be due to the lack of
soundproofing. It would have been nice it it had a more complete
interior and a "state of the possible" panel.
Monday evening Randy Debauw was kind enough to give me a flight in his
'10. This was a lot more fun as he let me fly and land (*albeit with
gentle guidance*) at a nearby airport. This gave me a much better feel
for the '10.
Tuesday I spent the day at Henry Gorgas' shop and started on a sheet
metal workshop. Henry is very particular about how things should be done
and took great pains to explain why he did things the way he did. Under
his careful instruction I have a project piece that has examples of
every type of defective rivertting including an absolutely stellar
mushroom rivet.
Tuesday night I spent a couple of hours with Bruce Radke getting a tour
of his project. I now have an appreciation how how much composite work
the '10 involves.
Wednesday I spent another day with Henry an completed my airfoil
project. My rivetting has improved *somewhat* and I learned how to drill
out rivets. Somehow, I think this will be an important skill.
After finishing my sheet metal class I zipped over to Van's and asked to
see the quick build kits again, took a few pictures and bought my
empennage kit.
This list and the wonderfully detailed websites of those who have
already built a '10 will be major build resource for me.
Cheers
Les
_________________________________________________
Message 18
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
If you haven't put the tanks together yet you can install the return
line in the top of the tank just like the feed line. It is also best
that your return line extends at least 1 or 2 bays so you give the hot
fuel a chance to mix with cooler fuel and eliminate any air bubbles
before it is picked back up. Best case is to send it to the far bay but
2 should be fine.
Looking at my AFP FM-300 manual it is looking for anything in AN2-AN4
range for the purge line. I think the Egg engine is looking for AN5
though so if you can't decide I would just go with that. Then just get
a couple AN837 and associated fittings and you should be good to go.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Williams, M.D.
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:38 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Fuel tanks
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D."
--> <drfred@cox-internet.com>
I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What fitting would
be the best? What is typically used?
Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the aileron/flap
acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
Thanks.
Fred
Proseal is fun........it's the MEK to clean it up that's the problem.
Message 19
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--> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
Good advice Rick. I've heard that the guys refueling passenger jets can
get a good whack if they touch the airframe when holding the ground
clamp. Static doesn't build up as much on our slower birds. And that
JP-X (I think they're up to 7 now) isn't nearly as flammable as avgas or
mogas. I'm aware of at least one Pitts that converted to cinders due to
arcing (from whatever source) from a grounded nozzle touching an
ungrounded filler neck. The guy was pumping mogas from a barrel that
didn't have a ground wire attached.
My mogas tank has a weighted bare wire inside the tank connected to the
battery ground (12V pump) and a ground wire that goes to my exhaust
pipes. Another long ground wire goes to my hangar frame. It's a PITA
to hook it all up each time I fill the Pitts but I don't have a bucket
of cinders either. I just try to learn from others misfortune.
Linn
Rick wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>
>After being battered by all the ground safety & QA types in the USAF, then becoming
one......hmmmm, funny how that works, I was surprised to see the lack of
grounding and bonding procedures in general aviation short of the line truck's
cable wheel. I guess when you remove the electrically primed munitions and
impulse cartriges from the mix grounding doesn't seem high on the list. I can
tell you I have felt head smacking (F-4 centerline tank, bottom of fuselage very
close to head) static electricity while pinning up aircraft after flight, prior
to shut down. Imagine your surprise when you see that spark jump from the
fuel nozzel to the tank opening as your getting ready to pump. I still can't
walk up to an airplane without the words, "Aircraft positioned, chocked and grounded"
going through my head.
>
>Rick S.
>40185
>
>do not archive
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Grounding was Priming in a confined space |
--> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters <pitts_pilot@bellsouth.net>
More great information. But to answer your question about connecting to
the stacks ..... my tiedowns on the Pitts are sodidly attached to
...... wood. I'll have to admit that I've never thought about the
tiedowns as a grounding point ..... but I will now. Well, DUH!!! I
should have been doing that on the spam cans all along!!! The tiedowns
are usually easier to get to than the stacks sometimes. Thanks!!!
Linn
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
>
> Substantially more potential for static buildup when you fly Mach 2.
> Also much greater potential in dry climates and in heated spaces in
> the winter. I used to get jolts in the earpiece all the time when
> working in tower cab in Fairbanks AK in the winter, when rel humidity
> indoors was in single digits. Reaching for any switch could generate
> 1-2 inch discharges.
> Along same lines, have NEVER understood why fuel truck drivers want to
> connect to exhaust stack. Grounding path through exhaust joints and
> engine to fuel tanks is a whole lot poorer than from wing tiedown ring
> to wing fuel tank. How many are careful to touch fuel nozzle to the
> inlet before starting fuel flow, and keep it touching metal while
> dispensing? It is the flow of the fuel that creates additional static
> buildup, faster the flow, greater the potential.
>
> do not archive
>
> On 10/5/06, Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Rick <ricksked@earthlink.net>
>>
>> After being battered by all the ground safety & QA types in the USAF,
>> then becoming one......hmmmm, funny how that works, I was surprised
>> to see the lack of grounding and bonding procedures in general
>> aviation short of the line truck's cable wheel. I guess when you
>> remove the electrically primed munitions and impulse cartriges from
>> the mix grounding doesn't seem high on the list. I can tell you I
>> have felt head smacking (F-4 centerline tank, bottom of fuselage very
>> close to head) static electricity while pinning up aircraft after
>> flight, prior to shut down. Imagine your surprise when you see that
>> spark jump from the fuel nozzel to the tank opening as your getting
>> ready to pump. I still can't walk up to an airplane without the
>> words, "Aircraft positioned, chocked and grounded" going through my
>> head.
>>
>> Rick S.
>> 40185
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | rear seat shoulder harness attach, |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
John,
You are correct, dentist don't mix their own composite except for bonding
porcelain to tooth structure, but then again most of the time the assistant
does the mix. We do however use flowables in tight spots and corners(low
filled resin) and higher density stuff in the other areas. Having worked on
both the micro scale(Dental) and the macro scale, molds and planes, I did
have to learn composite basics and in both fields and the techniques are
interchangable. If one is a dentist and argues this point, I would have to
say they are not a very good dentist or they just don't do composite
dentistry.
Hopefully being a good dentist will keep my airplane from breaking apart and
make it fly straight with as little power as posible.
For resume' see
http://johngonzalezdds.com/sculpting/sculpting.html look at full molded
fiberglass models, big models! Yah the're models, but I am pretty proud of
them.
Knowing what I know I witnessed the most rediculous demonstration of builder
assist at Lancair on their intro video they send out.
At the assist center they are laminating in the main wing spar to the wing
skin, basically closing up the wing and they show a man walking over the top
of the wing to push the skin down onto the spar thus pushing down on the
epoxy between the two structures. Now knowing what I know, both from
dentistry and building models, once the weight is removed(the man walking
away) the epoxy mix under the weight would have squezzed out from the gap
and will not get sucked back under the skin to fill back in the gap between
skin and spar, there is flex in the skin under that tremendoud weight where
the man was standing. Correct application would be to put the load on the
entire length of the wing skin at nearly the same time and leave it there
throughout cure.
It may seem anal, but this is about as important as it gets in my mind.
JOhn G.
>From: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
>To: "RV LIST" <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: rear seat shoulder harness attach
>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 21:17:04 -0400
>
>Not to interrupt the primer/filler discussion but I'd like to ask if
>everyone/anyone is using the longeron attach points for the rear seat
>shoulder harness or mounting to a hard point on the cabin top? BTW:
>Dentists have'nt mixed composite for years, Comes ready to use, sans air
>bubbles that were introduced by the mixing process. The curing reaction is
>initiated by light. Something to do with peroxide, free radicals etc. etc.
> Thought you might like to know.
>
>John Hasbrouck
>#40264
Message 22
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| Subject: | ES 24115 Master Relay |
Good afternoon,
I am just wrapping up my -10 tailcone and came to the part in the plans
that instructs me to install the ES 24115 Master Relay. Does this come
with the kit? I don't seem to find one in my parts bin. Did eveyone
else have one? Anyone have trouble finding it?
Jeff
Message 23
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--> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
Deems,
Did you buy the extended range bungs to install for a return line? I have been
thinking I might use one of those for a return line.
David Maib
40559
tailcone
On Thursday, October 05, 2006, at 07:29AM, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
>I haven't installed them yet, (wings are stored @ airport)but here's
>what I got to plumb a return line into one of my tanks.
>
>http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Panel/Finishing
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>Fred Williams, M.D. wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D."
>> <drfred@cox-internet.com>
>>
>> I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
>> installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What fitting
>> would be the best? What is typically used?
>> Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
>> completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the
>> aileron/flap acutation systems. Are most builders putting off
>> attaching the bottom skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation
>> system is complete?
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>> Proseal is fun........it's the MEK to clean it up that's the problem.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: ES 24115 Master Relay |
It is sold separately. You can buy it from van but you do not have
ti install it now, you may wait until the very end.
Do not archive.
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 5, 2006, at 3:45 PM, jdalton77 wrote:
> Good afternoon,
>
>
> I am just wrapping up my -10 tailcone and came to the part in the
> plans that instructs me to install the ES 24115 Master Relay. Does
> this come with the kit? I don't seem to find one in my parts bin.
> Did eveyone else have one? Anyone have trouble finding it?
>
> Jeff
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | ES 24115 Master Relay |
It's an optional item. You can order direct from Van's but having it
now is of no advantage.
Bob
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdalton77
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 2:45 PM
Subject: RV10-List: ES 24115 Master Relay
Good afternoon,
I am just wrapping up my -10 tailcone and came to the part in the plans
that instructs me to install the ES 24115 Master Relay. Does this come
with the kit? I don't seem to find one in my parts bin. Did eveyone
else have one? Anyone have trouble finding it?
Jeff
Message 26
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|
No need to buy them from Safeair for $23.95 a pair when Van's sell the VA-112 pre
drilled "bung" (same 1/8 NPT "bung" used on fuel tank drain) for about $7.80
each. See Page 18-2 of the plans, or find it on "The List"
Or you can do what I did here, just in case I want to add an extended range tank:
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/07Wings/wings58a.html
>I haven't installed them yet, (wings are stored @ airport)but here's
>what I got to plumb a return line into one of my tanks.
>
>http://www.safeair1.com/index.htm
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Panel/Finishing
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
William Curtis
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 27
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Follow the plans Fred. The bottom skins go on LAST. Yes, you will get lots of
scrapes and scars on your arms--of all the riveting I've done on the RV-10, this
was by far the hardest. Also, an extra person does not help with these, they
just get in the way. You can remove the torque tube temporarily AFTER you
have constructed it and made adjustments to rivet the bottom skins.
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@cox-internet.com>
>
>I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
>installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What >fitting would
>be the best? What is typically used?
>
>Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
>completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the aileron/flap
>acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
>skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Fred
>
William Curtis
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 28
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| Subject: | West System product 410 |
I was advised by my rep to not use above if I was going to paint over
with anything other than white. He said they have had blistering due to
the problems with temperatures of this product.
regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Kermanj
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
You can use the West System epoxy (products 105 and 205) mixed with
West System product 410. 410 is a very light weight filler that sands
well. Mix the product dry for deep holes and a little wet for final
filling to minimize pin holes. for the final coat, use all three
products as a liquid slurry to fill the pin holes.
do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 3, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the Fuse
and figured this would be a good time to smooth out the "varicous veins"
left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand and fill the
depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more ascethetic interior
appearance. I merrily began this process using Bondo for the deeper
'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for the more shallow. John 'The
Turbinator" Cox who monitors this grasshoppers progress to keep me from
wandering too far afield from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was
doing and in an offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of
the 2 products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps. >:o
! He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to dramatically
demonstrate the results.
So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using?
And where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing experience
particularly from anybody that's already solved this problem. The
application I'm using it for, is definitely Non Structural, and cosmetic
only, so I don't need/want to use flox, epoxy and micro takes too long
to set up to be able to sand. as I'm finding that it takes many many
coats/layers of filler to get a smooth surface.
Let the games begin
Deems Davis # 406
Panel/Finishing
http://deemsrv10.com/
- The RV10-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
- NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
--> http://wiki.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--> http://forums.matronics.com
http://wiki.matronics.com
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Direct2 issue |
I read Wayne Edgerton's posting concerning his problems with our RV-10
wiring harness, and the lack of support he feels that he has received
from us at Direct To Avionics. We take this very seriously. We also
take full responsibility for the issues detailed by Wayne, and want to
publicly apologize to him and any others who have been impacted by this
problem. We are committed to making immediate corrections. From the
outset, I wanted to create a business model that is as solid as the
product out in front of it.
We have had challenges with supplying a harness that is as easy for our
customers to install as we promote it to be. While we anticipated that
the SV-10 harness and documentation would be completed months ago, the
company with which we originally contracted could not deliver. To
correct this, we've contracted with another firm to manufacture the
harness. As a result, I am relieved to report now that we are beyond the
issues of delivery, and expect production harnesses to ship within the
next 3 weeks.
Further, we've hired additional resources to complete the documentation
that will accompany the SV-10 harness, including a graphic artist to
illustrate how a builder should strip wires, crimp and terminate EACH
connector. We set out to develop a wiring harness for RV-10 builder
which is as close to plug & play as possible and feel that, with this
documentation, we have achieved that goal. If you would like a copy of
this RV-10 wiring guide sent to you, please drop me an email
(kirk@d2av.com).
We have built the reputation of Direct To Avionics around the principal
of standing behind our products. Sometimes that means standing up and
accepting responsibility when those products are less than our customers
rightly expect.
Thank you for your continued patience and patronage.
Most sincerely,
Kirk Hammersmith, President
Direct To Avionics
kirk@d2av.com
Message 30
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I disagree. A person to either help you buck or rivet will make the
bottom skins a lot easier. If you have the wing on an upright rack even
a third person to stand behind the wing to steady it while the bottom
skin is being riveted is also helpful. There will be a bunch of rivets
that you will probably want to set with pop rivets as well simply
because even with another person bucking they won't be able to reach far
enough through the access panel holes to buck every rivet.
Russ Daves
N710RV Flying
See you at LOE 10/13/06
----- Original Message -----
From: W. Curtis
To: RV10-List@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel tanks
Follow the plans Fred. The bottom skins go on LAST. Yes, you will get
lots of scrapes and scars on your arms--of all the riveting I've done on
the RV-10, this was by far the hardest. Also, an extra person does not
help with these, they just get in the way. You can remove the torque
tube temporarily AFTER you have constructed it and made adjustments to
rivet the bottom skins.
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D."
>
>I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
>installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What >fitting
would
>be the best? What is typically used?
>
>Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
>completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the
aileron/flap
>acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
>skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Fred
>
William Curtis
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
Message 31
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D." <drfred@cox-internet.com>
Michael/Deems/Rene
thanks for the iniput. Ive got a couple ways to go. I'll probably
manufacture all the rods and connections , make sure they work, then
pull them out and then put the skins on. I'll look for those fittings
later tonight. It just looked easier to make sure nothing was rubbing
and make sure the acuator arms all worked like they were supposed to
before closing up the wing.
Fred.
Message 32
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I agree with Russ...or do I say I agree to disagree. Just finished my
bottom skins about a month and a half ago. Two people is a must. A third
can help some, but they will get board. I did some riveting on a vertical
stand, but changed to table. The table was much easier. First wing I used
two pop rivets the second wing I used 0. Follow the order very closely and
you can get them all even with short arms like me. Just make sure you start
towards the middle of the large sheet and work the center section on both
the rear and main spar or you will have to use some pop rivets on the main
spar. Good luck.
Rene' Felker
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel tanks
I disagree. A person to either help you buck or rivet will make the bottom
skins a lot easier. If you have the wing on an upright rack even a third
person to stand behind the wing to steady it while the bottom skin is being
riveted is also helpful. There will be a bunch of rivets that you will
probably want to set with pop rivets as well simply because even with
another person bucking they won't be able to reach far enough through the
access panel holes to buck every rivet.
Russ Daves
N710RV Flying
See you at LOE 10/13/06
----- Original Message -----
From: W. Curtis <mailto:wcurtis@core.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel tanks
Follow the plans Fred. The bottom skins go on LAST. Yes, you will get lots
of scrapes and scars on your arms--of all the riveting I've done on the
RV-10, this was by far the hardest. Also, an extra person does not help with
these, they just get in the way. You can remove the torque tube temporarily
AFTER you have constructed it and made adjustments to rivet the bottom
skins.
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D."
>
>I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
>installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What >fitting would
>be the best? What is typically used?
>
>Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
>completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the aileron/flap
>acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
>skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Fred
>
William Curtis
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: West System product 410 |
I have used this product and have seen others use it on planes that
are already a few years old without problems.
Do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 5, 2006, at 5:18 PM, Chris , Susie Darcy wrote:
> I was advised by my rep to not use above if I was going to paint
> over with anything other than white. He said they have had
> blistering due to the problems with temperatures of this product.
>
> regards Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Rob Kermanj
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Filler wars - Part I
>
> You can use the West System epoxy (products 105 and 205) mixed with
> West System product 410. 410 is a very light weight filler that
> sands well. Mix the product dry for deep holes and a little wet
> for final filling to minimize pin holes. for the final coat, use
> all three products as a liquid slurry to fill the pin holes.
>
> do not archive
> Rob Kermanj
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>> I've got the cabin cover off prior to match drilling it to the
>> Fuse and figured this would be a good time to smooth out the
>> "varicous veins" left from the vacum bagging and to otherwise sand
>> and fill the depressions/hills and valleys to make for a more
>> ascethetic interior appearance. I merrily began this process using
>> Bondo for the deeper 'valleys' and a product called 'Icing' for
>> the more shallow. John 'The Turbinator" Cox who monitors this
>> grasshoppers progress to keep me from wandering too far afield
>> from 'acceptable' practices. Noted what I was doing and in an
>> offline e-mail diplomatically informed me that both of the 2
>> products I was using have histories of shrinking after 18-24
>> months of use, and particularly when exposed to high (120F) temps.
>> >:o ! He sent me some pictures from some Lancair projects to
>> dramatically demonstrate the results.
>>
>> So my question is: What 'aircraft grade' filler are people using?
>> And where did you obtain it from? I'd appreciate hearing
>> experience particularly from anybody that's already solved this
>> problem. The application I'm using it for, is definitely Non
>> Structural, and cosmetic only, so I don't need/want to use flox,
>> epoxy and micro takes too long to set up to be able to sand. as
>> I'm finding that it takes many many coats/layers of filler to get
>> a smooth surface.
>>
>> Let the games begin
>>
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> Panel/Finishing
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>>
>> - The RV10-List Email Forum -
>> --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> --> http://forums.matronics.com
>> - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>> --> http://wiki.matronics.com
>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>> Thank you for your generous support!
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List via the Web
>> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>> List Wiki! href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://
>> wiki.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/
>> contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==========
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List_-
> ============================================================ _-
> forums.matronics.com_-
> ============================================================ _-
> ============================================================ _-
> contribution_-
> ===========================================================
>
Message 34
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Tim Olson and others,
I remember way back when you recommended removing your floor pans form the
QB, not just for stray clecos but also to personally check quality of the
Philippines. I've got all the rear ones out but can't figure an easy way
to remove the most forward ones since the gear leg brackets are bolting them
in. Tips?
Rob Wright
#392
Wanting to prime and soundproof..
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach, |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
John,
Thanks for your reply regarding composites. Truly beautiful work
displayed on your website. Now to the original question. Are you going to
use the longeron attach or the cabin cover for rear seat shoulder harness?
John Hasbrouck DDS
#40264
Message 36
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| Subject: | rear seat shoulder harness attach, |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
John, beautiful work! And seriously, is that your place and view! Man
I should have been a dentist..... or single. ;-)
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:14 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: rear seat shoulder harness attach,
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez"
--> <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
John,
You are correct, dentist don't mix their own composite except for
bonding porcelain to tooth structure, but then again most of the time
the assistant does the mix. We do however use flowables in tight spots
and corners(low filled resin) and higher density stuff in the other
areas. Having worked on both the micro scale(Dental) and the macro
scale, molds and planes, I did have to learn composite basics and in
both fields and the techniques are interchangable. If one is a dentist
and argues this point, I would have to say they are not a very good
dentist or they just don't do composite dentistry.
Hopefully being a good dentist will keep my airplane from breaking apart
and make it fly straight with as little power as posible.
For resume' see
http://johngonzalezdds.com/sculpting/sculpting.html look at full
molded
fiberglass models, big models! Yah the're models, but I am pretty proud
of them.
Knowing what I know I witnessed the most rediculous demonstration of
builder assist at Lancair on their intro video they send out.
At the assist center they are laminating in the main wing spar to the
wing skin, basically closing up the wing and they show a man walking
over the top of the wing to push the skin down onto the spar thus
pushing down on the epoxy between the two structures. Now knowing what
I know, both from dentistry and building models, once the weight is
removed(the man walking
away) the epoxy mix under the weight would have squezzed out from the
gap and will not get sucked back under the skin to fill back in the gap
between skin and spar, there is flex in the skin under that tremendoud
weight where the man was standing. Correct application would be to put
the load on the entire length of the wing skin at nearly the same time
and leave it there throughout cure.
It may seem anal, but this is about as important as it gets in my mind.
JOhn G.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: QB Floor Pans |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Rob,
Are the floor forward floor boards riveted in place.
The early quickbuild fuselage did not have the forward floor pan
installed at all. They were shipped separately as a part. The gear legs
were bolted in place but they needed to be removed then the floor pan
installed, match drilled, etc. I have heard that the newer QBs have the
pans fully installed. It would be quite a chore to drill out all those
pop rivets to check the quality of the build. That being said, there
have been many reports of stuff being left inside the temporarily
installed seat and floor panels. I found a cleco and some loose rivets.
Larry Rosen
#356
Rob Wright wrote:
>
> Tim Olson and others,
>
> I remember way back when you recommended removing your floor pans form
> the QB, not just for stray clecos but also to personally check quality
> of the Philippines. Ive got all the rear ones out but cant figure an
> easy way to remove the most forward ones since the gear leg brackets
> are bolting them in. Tips?
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392
>
> Wanting to prime and soundproof.
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: QB Wings and Standard Fuselage |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman@earthlink.net>
Michael,
I ordered my QB wings last week; they said they are in stock and that the fuselage
does not have to be ordered with the wings. I'm still on the HS, so if you
are on the tail cone, get going :)
--------
#40572 Empennage HS
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66075#66075
Message 39
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Hi
I know this may come across as asking if some wants to sell their first
born, but I am in the market for tools. Basically, I need just about
everything but am primarily interested in air tools including a
pneumatic
squeeze and a DTRT-2 dimplier.
Anybody too busy flying to need tools?
Cheers
Les
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wright
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: RV10-List: QB Floor Pans
Tim Olson and others,
I remember way back when you recommended removing your floor pans form
the
QB, not just for stray clecos but also to personally check quality of
the
Philippines. I've got all the rear ones out but can't figure an easy
way
to remove the most forward ones since the gear leg brackets are bolting
them
in. Tips?
Rob Wright
#392
Wanting to prime and soundproof..
Message 40
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| Subject: | : Hugo Rv10#40456 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: <gommone7@bellsouth.net>
Hi,reading about the floor panels,10 minutes ago just finished the final riveting,I
also have a QB ,I remove the gear bracket,in order to remove the pans,are
only few rivets,I epoxy primer everithing and install sound proffing underneat
the pans,not in the bottom,now this is what I found,
even if was riveted and primer the line of rivets along the tunnel at the fire
wall and aft,where not match #30,I found this after many rivets set at the floor,some
body in the phillipines wake up for my thinking,
any way before install the copilot side I correct this ,and come smooth,refer to
Van's (scott risan) will refer to the Phillys crew ,may be I help some one
in the QB # 650 or so.
By the way if somebody remove the landing gear bracket I suggest order a new set
of bolts,they are install with stress,I will not reinstall the same ones,probably
15 0 20 doll worth in bolts.
Hugo
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: QB Floor Pans |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Back when I got mine, we still had to install the nutplates to
bolt in the gear leg mounts, and not all the bolts were in the
mounts yet. If you still want to pull them to put in insulation
or anything else, I guess you're stuck pulling the gear legs.
It's not a fun job, but not too awful either. Wish I
had better news for you.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rob Wright wrote:
> Tim Olson and others,
>
>
>
> I remember way back when you recommended removing your floor pans form
> the QB, not just for stray clecos but also to personally check quality
> of the Philippines. Ive got all the rear ones out but cant figure an
> easy way to remove the most forward ones since the gear leg brackets are
> bolting them in. Tips?
>
>
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392
>
> Wanting to prime and soundproof.
>
> *
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: rear seat shoulder harness attach, |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
John, I also used the longerons. I don't know if I've seen
anyone else use the cabin top for the rear seats. You'd need
to add hard mounts of some sort.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Hasbrouck wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
>
> John,
> Thanks for your reply regarding composites. Truly beautiful work
> displayed on your website. Now to the original question. Are you going
> to use the longeron attach or the cabin cover for rear seat shoulder
> harness?
>
> John Hasbrouck DDS
> #40264
>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: QB Floor Pans |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy" <VHMUM@bigpond.com>
You need to remove the gear mounts and check all the bolt holes that hold
them in as all the side holes on mine were F%$#@ up so I had to enlarge and
put bigger bolts in. Other QB builders have reported this! Its usualy the R
side only.
So worth tacking out just for that.
Chris 388
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Floor Pans
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Back when I got mine, we still had to install the nutplates to
> bolt in the gear leg mounts, and not all the bolts were in the
> mounts yet. If you still want to pull them to put in insulation
> or anything else, I guess you're stuck pulling the gear legs.
> It's not a fun job, but not too awful either. Wish I
> had better news for you.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Rob Wright wrote:
>> Tim Olson and others,
>>
>> I remember way back when you recommended removing your floor pans form
>> the QB, not just for stray clecos but also to personally check quality of
>> the Philippines. Ive got all the rear ones out but cant figure an
>> easy way to remove the most forward ones since the gear leg brackets are
>> bolting them in. Tips?
>>
>> Rob Wright
>>
>> #392
>>
>> Wanting to prime and soundproof.
>>
>> *
>
>
>
Message 44
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|
I have the slow build fuse and found mounting the gear legs a pain in
the butt. I can see how the guys in the Phillipines are buggering them
up. The other area that a lot of people have trouble with is around the
F-1001B and WD-1002 weldment at the fwd fuse (not enough hole edge
clearance). I wonder how the QBs look in that area??
cheers,
Ron
168
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Friday, 6 October 2006 10:52 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Floor Pans
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris , Susie Darcy"
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
You need to remove the gear mounts and check all the bolt holes that
hold
them in as all the side holes on mine were F%$#@ up so I had to enlarge
and
put bigger bolts in. Other QB builders have reported this! Its usualy
the R
side only.
So worth tacking out just for that.
Chris 388
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <Tim@MyRV10.com>
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Floor Pans
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Back when I got mine, we still had to install the nutplates to
> bolt in the gear leg mounts, and not all the bolts were in the
> mounts yet. If you still want to pull them to put in insulation
> or anything else, I guess you're stuck pulling the gear legs.
> It's not a fun job, but not too awful either. Wish I
> had better news for you.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Rob Wright wrote:
>> Tim Olson and others,
>>
>> I remember way back when you recommended removing your floor pans
form
>> the QB, not just for stray clecos but also to personally check
quality of
>> the Philippines. I've got all the rear ones out but can't figure an
>> easy way to remove the most forward ones since the gear leg brackets
are
>> bolting them in. Tips?
>>
>> Rob Wright
>>
>> #392
>>
>> Wanting to prime and soundproof....
>>
>> *
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Tools, Tools, Tools |
Hi
Once more with feeling only with a more appropriate subject line..
Hi
I know this may come across as asking if some wants to sell their first
born, but I am in the market for tools. Basically, I need just about
everything but am primarily interested in air tools including a pneumatic
squeeze and a DTRT-2 dimplier.
Anybody too busy flying to need tools?
Cheers
Les (awaiting tail kit)
Do not archive
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Flap Trailing Edge |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Chris" <toaster73@earthlink.net>
I asked Ken K. about this and he said there was two different philosophies
at work. ONe designer preffered the wedge poking out a little the other
wanted the skin to overlay exactly on the TE of the wedge.
-Chris Lucas
#40072
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Carpenter" <jeff@westcottpress.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 1:05 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Flap Trailing Edge
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> Hello Fellow Builders...
>
> I've got my flaps all clecoed up and drilled out and notice that my flap
> skins... both skins on both flaps come up 1/16" short of the trailing
> edge wedge. This was not the case with my rudder trailing edge, where
> the skins actually extended a fraction beyond the end of the wedge. Have
> others experienced this?
>
> I'm thinking that my trailing edge wedges might have been mis- punched...
> probably a lot more likely than all 4 skins being off.
>
> Jeff Carpenter
> 40304
>
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Backup Instrumentation |
FWIW, I opted for the dual GRT EFIS (one AHRS) and also a Dynon with the
internal battery (good for 2 hours). That way if there's a total electrical
failure, failure of either EFIS computer or display there's still something
working with all attitude, heading, airspeed and altitude info.
Marcus
40286
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Kermanj
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:07 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Backup Instrumentation
I agree that back up instrumentation is a MUST. I just wanted to say that my
Grand Rapid units have performed perfect for 80+ hours. There have been no
performance issues. I do have issues with menus and some functions but
nothing on it's reliability.
Depending on the kind of flying you do, GRT might be a good system for you.
Customer service is the best and my units arrived couple of weeks early.
Do not archive.
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 3, 2006, at 9:58 PM, Tim Olson wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
So with pretty much every EFIS we've now heard that there's a problem
of one sort of another. For those who are planning an EFIS, even
a reliable and expensive one, don't forget to put backup gauges in
for the critical stuff. I've seen a few EFIS-only panels already,
and I can't help but think there's something to be said for
non-electric, or at least self contained backups.
Check out this story on a G1000.
http://www.alexisparkinn.com/nwpilot's_tranatlantic_flight.htm
And I got a copy of this service alert from Avidyne.
http://www.myrv10.com/files/avidyne/SA-05-001.pdf
You'll see that even they now specify backup instruments after
having issues with their systems.
So I haven't heard of an EFIS yet that doesn't have at least some
issue. Dynon's were previously famous for losing attitude when
the system loses airspeed. BMA has had all sorts of things.
Chelton has had the Crossbow 425 stuff. OP tech has had some
interesting issues. So plan your panels accordingly....and
remember these things are programmed by humans....hopefully not
the same ones who wrote Windows 95. :)
--
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
- The RV10-List Email Forum -
Thank you for your generous support!
Message 48
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| Subject: | rear seat shoulder harness attach, |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
David's AMSAFE inertial belts use a cabin top mount for the attachment.
I already made a bunch of changes expecting to use his.
http://www.inertialbelts.com/
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Fuselage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: rear seat shoulder harness attach,
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
John, I also used the longerons. I don't know if I've seen anyone else
use the cabin top for the rear seats. You'd need to add hard mounts of
some sort.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Hasbrouck wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck"
> --> <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
>
> John,
> Thanks for your reply regarding composites. Truly beautiful work
> displayed on your website. Now to the original question. Are you
> going to use the longeron attach or the cabin cover for rear seat
> shoulder harness?
>
> John Hasbrouck DDS
> #40264
>
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Load Analysis & Electrical Schematic |
In a message dated 10/5/2006 2:01:04 AM Central Standard Time,
armywrights@adelphia.net writes:
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
Really? I guess as Bob N. says, your design goals must be the deciding
factor on your decision.
Either option is viable. And even though the U.S. Army doesn't get it right
all the time, they've opted for a single battery, dual alternator design in
their single-engine helicopters. Of course, the option for the 2d battery
is there, but that's usually left for cold-soaked aircraft needing the amps
to start in the middle of the night with no ground power units available.
Now if you plan on a hangared plane where you can hook up a ground power
cable if it's too cold, you may want to choose the single battery/dual
alternator setup. Then you don't have to immediately start the 30 minute
"my-battery-is-going-dead" clock if your only alternator fails that powers
your glass panel.
I'm sure there are some more nice battery/alternator wars in the
aeroelectric list archives that go into choices due to weight, c.g., spare
engine pads, etc. in addition to original design goals.
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
For what it's worth, I chose to use both dual alternators, dual batteries 2
busses (I can connect the 2 if needed). Just now into ground runs before first
flight, and I am happy that I decided to go this way - redundancy for
intended IFR flight.
Grumpy #40404
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 50
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I agree with Russ, but then I riveted and bucked every one of them myself on
my bottom skins, no pop rivets. The reason I agree with Russ is #1 the
experience I now have :], and #2 the amount of bondo I'll have to use during
paint prep to cover the dings and dents that I put in the skins.
Rob Wright
#392
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel tanks
I disagree. A person to either help you buck or rivet will make the bottom
skins a lot easier. If you have the wing on an upright rack even a third
person to stand behind the wing to steady it while the bottom skin is being
riveted is also helpful. There will be a bunch of rivets that you will
probably want to set with pop rivets as well simply because even with
another person bucking they won't be able to reach far enough through the
access panel holes to buck every rivet.
Russ Daves
N710RV Flying
See you at LOE 10/13/06
----- Original Message -----
From: W. Curtis <mailto:wcurtis@core.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel tanks
Follow the plans Fred. The bottom skins go on LAST. Yes, you will get lots
of scrapes and scars on your arms--of all the riveting I've done on the
RV-10, this was by far the hardest. Also, an extra person does not help with
these, they just get in the way. You can remove the torque tube temporarily
AFTER you have constructed it and made adjustments to rivet the bottom
skins.
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D."
>
>I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
>installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What >fitting would
>be the best? What is typically used?
>
>Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
>completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the aileron/flap
>acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
>skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Fred
>
William Curtis
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 51
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
Like Hugo said, there are only a few rivets tacking the pans into place. I
guess I'll try Van's tomorrow and verify the bolts installed with stress
before I plunge. Thanks all for the info.
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: QB Floor Pans
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
Rob,
Are the floor forward floor boards riveted in place.
The early quickbuild fuselage did not have the forward floor pan
installed at all. They were shipped separately as a part. The gear legs
were bolted in place but they needed to be removed then the floor pan
installed, match drilled, etc. I have heard that the newer QBs have the
pans fully installed. It would be quite a chore to drill out all those
pop rivets to check the quality of the build. That being said, there
have been many reports of stuff being left inside the temporarily
installed seat and floor panels. I found a cleco and some loose rivets.
Larry Rosen
#356
Rob Wright wrote:
>
> Tim Olson and others,
>
> I remember way back when you recommended removing your floor pans form
> the QB, not just for stray clecos but also to personally check quality
> of the Philippines. I've got all the rear ones out but can't figure an
> easy way to remove the most forward ones since the gear leg brackets
> are bolting them in. Tips?
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392
>
> Wanting to prime and soundproof..
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 52
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| Subject: | Shoulder harness redo |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Hasbrouck" <jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
Thanks for the replies. Using the longeron attach for the rear harness is
the only game in town for the other RVs but with the -10 the cabin top looks
like the best bet to me. I've seen the inertial belts web site and the
product looks good. Less stuff cluttering up the tailcone and baggage area
( no cables ) with the hard points mounted in the cabin top. For those who
are going this route, ( inertial belts ) do you think the attach point is
solid enough to function properly when needed? Gotta be right the first
time, no do overs. Satisified with the engineering of this product? Just
asking 'cause I'm about to this point and would like to use the inertial
belts.
John #40264
Sitting in the back seats making engine noises
Message 53
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I followed the directions in the plans with the bottom rivets, my wife on
the rivet gun and me bucking and we were able to do all the rivets without
using pop rivets. I think it only cost a pint of blood on the left arm and
2/3 of a pint on the right. Got better with time. It was a pain in the
backsides and the torque tubes absolutely have to be out of the wing, and
your arm has to be a long one. The finished product looks better than the
rudder.
Bob K
Except for the blood stains. :<))
Waiting to see the TEXAS TECH Special.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wright
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Re: Fuel tanks
I agree with Russ, but then I riveted and bucked every one of them myself on
my bottom skins, no pop rivets. The reason I agree with Russ is #1 the
experience I now have :], and #2 the amount of bondo I'll have to use during
paint prep to cover the dings and dents that I put in the skins.
Rob Wright
#392
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Fuel tanks
I disagree. A person to either help you buck or rivet will make the bottom
skins a lot easier. If you have the wing on an upright rack even a third
person to stand behind the wing to steady it while the bottom skin is being
riveted is also helpful. There will be a bunch of rivets that you will
probably want to set with pop rivets as well simply because even with
another person bucking they won't be able to reach far enough through the
access panel holes to buck every rivet.
Russ Daves
N710RV Flying
See you at LOE 10/13/06
----- Original Message -----
From: W. Curtis <mailto:wcurtis@core.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 4:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Fuel tanks
Follow the plans Fred. The bottom skins go on LAST. Yes, you will get lots
of scrapes and scars on your arms--of all the riveting I've done on the
RV-10, this was by far the hardest. Also, an extra person does not help with
these, they just get in the way. You can remove the torque tube temporarily
AFTER you have constructed it and made adjustments to rivet the bottom
skins.
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Fred Williams, M.D."
>
>I'm not thinking of putting a fuel injected engine on my RV, but
>installing a return fitting seems like a good idea. What >fitting would
>be the best? What is typically used?
>
>Also, the book places the chapter on the bottom skin after the
>completion of the fuel tanks and before installation of the aileron/flap
>acutation systems. Are most builders putting off attaching the bottom
>skin until after the flaps/ailerons/acuation system is complete?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Fred
>
William Curtis
http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://wiki.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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