Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:35 AM - Re: engines (RAS)
2. 04:27 AM - Re: engines (Rob Kermanj)
3. 04:27 AM - Re: engines (Wayne Edgerton)
4. 06:07 AM - Re: engines (Link McGarity)
5. 06:35 AM - Re: engines....TIO-360 (Eric Parlow)
6. 07:13 AM - Re: engines (Kelly McMullen)
7. 09:47 AM - Where to start with quickbuild. (John Gonzalez)
8. 11:53 AM - Re: engines (ajhauter@yahoo.com)
9. 11:58 AM - Re: Where to start with quickbuild. (Larry Rosen)
10. 11:58 AM - Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining (Larry Rosen)
11. 11:59 AM - Re: Where to start on QB fuse? (Larry Rosen)
12. 01:10 PM - need AOL Communicator (philwhite9@aol.com)
13. 02:11 PM - Re: Priming in a confined space (philwhite9@aol.com)
14. 02:59 PM - Re: Re: engines (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com)
15. 03:04 PM - Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining (David Maib)
16. 04:21 PM - Re: 296 (Jesse Saint)
17. 04:30 PM - Re: engines....TIO-360 (Jesse Saint)
18. 04:59 PM - Re: Re: Priming in a confined space (Les Kearney)
19. 08:26 PM - Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining (Rob Wright)
Message 1
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Billy,
The problem is not the power of the engine, but the weight. Hanging a
four cylinder up front will leave the tail relatively heavy. This means
little or no luggage, maybe one or none on the rear seat.
Stick with the original design as intended, build and fly it. If you
don't like at that stage sell it and start with a clean sheet ofpaper
and design your own.
----- Original Message -----
From: billykay1@aol.com
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 2:40 AM
Subject: RV10-List: engines
Hello,
Has anybody (besides me) considered putting a 4 cylinder lyc (or
derivative) in the 10?
Billy Kehmeier
tail kit 574
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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Message 2
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I really don't know why you would! If it is the fuel economy, you
can run an IO- 540 nearly as economical as a four cylinder. If is
the cost, you can get a really good overhaul 540 for a little more
that a new X 4 cylinder. Have considered the CG?
do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Oct 13, 2006, at 9:40 PM, billykay1@aol.com wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Has anybody (besides me) considered putting a 4 cylinder lyc (or
> derivative) in the 10?
>
> Billy Kehmeier
> tail kit 574
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
> security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from
> across the web, free AOL Mail and more.
>
>
Message 3
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That sounds like blaspheme to me :>}
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 4
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--> RV10-List message posted by: Link McGarity <wv4i@bellsouth.net>
4 cyl eng in RV-10? Me. Van's. But flying off grass in FL in the summer,
probably need the bigger motor. Have some Cirrus SR-20 owners/neighbors
that can speak to this subject, although I think the wing loading on the
Cirrus is far greater than the RV-10?
Link McGarity
#40622
FD38, Wellington, FL
Message 5
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| Subject: | engines....TIO-360 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
Billy,
Have you considered a turbocharged Lycoming TIO-360?
You can configure it to put out 230 bhp up to 20,000ft.
This is the same bhp per cylinder as the certified Lycoming TIO-540 at 350
bhp.
Above 6,000 ft you will have more power than a 260 bhp IO-540.
It comes in close to, or less than, the weight of an IO-540.
The extra space in the front of the cowl leaves room for a nice cooling
plenum diffuser!
The trade off is giving up 20-30 bhp on take off and then proportionally
less up to 6,000ft.
Or a turbo-normalized TIO-540 @ 260 bhp to 20,000ft.
With this you could carry extra baggage all the time!
ERic--
Avionics
----Original Message Follows----
From: billykay1@aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: engines
Hello,
Has anybody (besides me) considered putting a 4 cylinder lyc (or
derivative) in the 10?
Billy Kehmeier
tail kit 574
________________________________________________________________________
Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web,
free AOL Mail and more.
Message 6
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
The Cirrus uses a 210 Continental IO-360 6 cyl that is de-rated to 200
hp. That is essentially what is in Van's #2 demo. The plane was
designed to handle that engine, but there wasn't enough demand for
Vans to produce a FWF kit for it. It is a heavier engine than the Lyc
4 cyl. IO360, but not by a lot, maybe 20-30 lbs. It does take some CG
adjustment to switch between those two engines, as Cessna has done in
the 172, where they produced T41 with the Continental, and the current
172 with the Lyc, and the early 172 with O-300 Cont 145 hp. Mooney's
201 vs 231 is similar, but the 231 has both heavier Cont engine and wt
of turbo charger install up front, making it more nose heavy.
On 10/14/06, Link McGarity <wv4i@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Link McGarity <wv4i@bellsouth.net>
>
> 4 cyl eng in RV-10? Me. Van's. But flying off grass in FL in the summer,
> probably need the bigger motor. Have some Cirrus SR-20 owners/neighbors
> that can speak to this subject, although I think the wing loading on the
> Cirrus is far greater than the RV-10?
>
> Link McGarity
> #40622
> FD38, Wellington, FL
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Where to start with quickbuild. |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Okay, I am double cheating on this topic.
I remember a post sometime back about where to begin on the plans if you
have the quickbuild wings and fuse. Glassing in the tail fins almost
finished. The VS front fairing was short and required addition to mate with
rudder counterbalance arm.
Looked in the archives and can't find it. Any recollection, anyone?????
JOhn G.
Message 8
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The new Superior XP-400 rated at 220 HP is worth looking into if the
CG issues can be addressed. What are you considering?
_________________________
Hello,
Has anybody (besides me) considered putting a 4 cylinder lyc (or
derivative) in
the 10?
Billy Kehmeier
tail kit 574
______________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Where to start with quickbuild. |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
QB wings consider putting together a wing stand.
here <http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/WingStand/index.html>
and here <http://www.brinkmeyers.net/Photos/Aircraft/Wings/target19.html>
Fuselage stand here <http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/fusestand/index.html>
John Gonzalez wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
>
> Okay, I am double cheating on this topic.
>
> I remember a post sometime back about where to begin on the plans if
> you have the quickbuild wings and fuse. Glassing in the tail fins
> almost finished. The VS front fairing was short and required addition
> to mate with rudder counterbalance arm.
>
> Looked in the archives and can't find it. Any recollection, anyone?????
>
> JOhn G.
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
From my archives.
Robert G. Wright wrote:
>
> Bill, good luck on this one.
>
> When my QB Wings and Fuse arrived, I went through the plans as
> thoroughly as I thought I could, noting what was left to do, but
> didnt make a separate list. Even if I had, Ive found lately that
> Ive had to go back and do things that I overlooked, and then go back
> and fit the thing I was working on in the first place! Its not bad
> because its kind of a checks and balances, but it sure throws you off
> of your rhythm when it happens.
>
> For me, these incidental things just get done and Ive not tried to
> annotate them when I come across them, because its all in the name of
> getting back to the original task. So a good, thorough, complete list
> seems like pie in the sky. There are parts of the plans, however, that
> do say for Slowbuild, do this, for QB, do this. Thats not everywhere
> in the plans, but seems to be the authors choice when he wrote that
> section. Probably wouldnt be hard for Vans to make a separate set of
> plans since the QB stuff is done the same way every time, but then we
> wouldnt have the slow-build sections to reference in case we needed
> to redo a part or needed to modify something to suit our own missions.
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392 QB Wings
>
> Tru-Trak Servos delivered yesterday!
>
> Finishing kit delivery next Thurs!
>
> Engine paid for awaiting delivery!
>
> Need more money/time/arms!
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Reining
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:42 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining
>
> Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done, and
> what remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally
> something that references the plans, such as: for the wings, sections
> xx all complete, steps yy in section zz. need to be finished. I
> checked the archive, but had no luck.
>
> Bill Reining going to OSH all week
>
> Tail cone
>
> 40514
>
> N475R reserved
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Where to start on QB fuse? |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
and also from my archives
Larry Rosen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
>
> Yes, just like the QB wings there are things undone.
> Start by removing all the temporary pop rivets on the floor boards,
> remove temporary pop rivets in the forward upper fuselage and get it
> out of the way. Remove all the close out panels. Remove the seat
> cover and seat floor. Remove the F1043D cover panel in front of the
> seat. Soon the quickbuild will look allot less complete. :-)
>
> You will need to remove the landing gear mounts so you can put the
> cabin floor in.
>
> There is a nut plate that goes on the F-1040 upper fuse channel that
> needs to be installed. Much easier to do before you rivet the F1042E
> gusset in place.
>
> Seat back brace needs to be pop riveted in place (remove the temp pop
> rivets).
>
> Probably forgot some stuff, but its a start.
>
> Larry
> http://lrosen.nerv10.com
>
> Dan Masys wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Dan Masys <dmasys@cox.net>
>>
>> With the wings essentially done, I started looking at the fuselage
>> sections of the plans. As far as I can tell, everything has been
>> done up through Section 29, and I should start with installing the
>> steps (Section 30). Is that correct, or are there details of the
>> sections 25-29 that are left undone by those talented folks in the
>> Philippines?
>>
>> (Certainly would be nice if Vans would publish some
>> quickbuild-specific instructions.)
>>
>> -Dan Masys
>> #40448
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | need AOL Communicator |
Just had to replace a dead hard disk, and lost the AOL Communicator software that
allowed me to automatically sort RV-10 email digests into the RV folder. AOL
no longer lists it as a download.
Anyone have a copy of the software they could send me?
Philwhite9@aol.com (#40220 Mazda 20B in an RV-10, doors)
________________________________________________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Priming in a confined space |
Les: I am in a garage, with bedrooms above, and a wife who is very sensitive to toxins with allergies. My research led to Aircraft Finishing Systems, http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/primer-sealer.htm, the only source of water-based finishes that aren't toxic. I am very satisfied with their primer that I've used on all my interior mating surfaces. I expect to paint the exterior with their products.
Phil (40220) doors & windows
________________________________________________________________________
Message 14
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In a message dated 10/14/2006 2:56:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ajhauter@yahoo.com writes:
Has anybody (besides me) considered putting a 4 cylinder lyc (or derivative)
in
the 10?
I am currently flying a Cessna 170 with a 6 cylinder Continental 0-300.
I would NEVER go back to a horizontally opposed 4 cylinder engine.
SOOOOoooooo much smoother. Less vibration and ultimately less stress on the internal
parts if you do the math as to how much horse power each cylinder has to put
out. If you want great economy, just throtle the IO-540 back to 50% power
and you will save tons on fuel and still go faster then most spam cans with
dome shaped rivets in the breeze. If you change the engine, you then have to
redesign the entire front end and deal with the W & B issues that are
significant. What is the value of trying to use a 4 cylinder engine? Less
reserve power, less performance???
Steve
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Stephen Blank #40499
766 SE River Lane
Port St. Lucie, FL 34983
772-475-5556 cell - evenings and weekends
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining |
--> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
I called and asked Vans about such a list. The answer was that they
wanted the builder to have to read all of the plans as if it were a
slow build. This is to educate the builder about how the whole thing
is built. Seems like a reasonable idea, but I would still like to
know just what has and what has not been done on my QB.
David Maib
#40559
tailcone
On Oct 14, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Larry Rosen wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
From my archives.
Robert G. Wright wrote:
>
> Bill, good luck on this one.
>
> When my QB Wings and Fuse arrived, I went through the plans as
> thoroughly as I thought I could, noting what was left to do, but
> didnt make a separate list. Even if I had, Ive found lately that
> Ive had to go back and do things that I overlooked, and then go
> back and fit the thing I was working on in the first place! Its
> not bad because its kind of a checks and balances, but it sure
> throws you off of your rhythm when it happens.
>
> For me, these incidental things just get done and Ive not tried
> to annotate them when I come across them, because its all in the
> name of getting back to the original task. So a good, thorough,
> complete list seems like pie in the sky. There are parts of the
> plans, however, that do say for Slowbuild, do this, for QB, do
> this. Thats not everywhere in the plans, but seems to be the
> authors choice when he wrote that section. Probably wouldnt be
> hard for Vans to make a separate set of plans since the QB stuff is
> done the same way every time, but then we wouldnt have the slow-
> build sections to reference in case we needed to redo a part or
> needed to modify something to suit our own missions.
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392 QB Wings
>
> Tru-Trak Servos delivered yesterday!
>
> Finishing kit delivery next Thurs!
>
> Engine paid for awaiting delivery!
>
> Need more money/time/arms!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
> list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Reining
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:42 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining
>
> Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done,
> and what remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally
> something that references the plans, such as: for the wings,
> sections xx all complete, steps yy in section zz. need to be
> finished. I checked the archive, but had no luck.
>
> Bill Reining going to OSH all week
>
> Tail cone
>
> 40514
>
> N475R reserved
>
Message 16
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Talk him into a 396 or 496. Awesome instrument.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Noel & Yoshie
Simmons
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 8:32 PM
Subject: RV10-List: 296
I am rebuilding a panel for an old friend, I am using his Garmin 295 SL-40,
GTX-327. Well the airgizmo panel mount I bought and have the panel cut for
fits the 296 so what can I do about traiding someone across the board?
Or should I go jump in a lake and just get him a 296
Noel
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV10-List
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Message 17
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| Subject: | engines....TIO-360 |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
I wouldn't be the one to try it, probably, but would love to see how it
worked. I think that is certainly worth a try. Giving up 30hp at sea level
isn't a big deal. This thing outperforms a Cirrus any day with the 260hp
(as far as getting off the ground and climbing to altitude). Getting some
more HP at altitude would be a great advantage. What would be the weight
difference between the IO-540 and the TIO-360? You would definitely need to
do something about W&B, but moving the battery up to the engine compartment
would certainly be a good start, as well as keeping the ELT out of the tail.
The engine mount would probably have to put the engine at least several
inches further forward of the firewall than the IO-540. Like I said, I
wouldn't be the first to try, probably, but would love to see how it works
out.
This is all IMHO, so please do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eric Parlow
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 9:35 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: engines....TIO-360
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
Billy,
Have you considered a turbocharged Lycoming TIO-360?
You can configure it to put out 230 bhp up to 20,000ft.
This is the same bhp per cylinder as the certified Lycoming TIO-540 at 350
bhp.
Above 6,000 ft you will have more power than a 260 bhp IO-540.
It comes in close to, or less than, the weight of an IO-540.
The extra space in the front of the cowl leaves room for a nice cooling
plenum diffuser!
The trade off is giving up 20-30 bhp on take off and then proportionally
less up to 6,000ft.
Or a turbo-normalized TIO-540 @ 260 bhp to 20,000ft.
With this you could carry extra baggage all the time!
ERic--
Avionics
----Original Message Follows----
From: billykay1@aol.com
Subject: RV10-List: engines
Hello,
Has anybody (besides me) considered putting a 4 cylinder lyc (or
derivative) in the 10?
Billy Kehmeier
tail kit 574
________________________________________________________________________
free AOL Mail and more.
--
--
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Priming in a confined space |
Phil
Thanks for the info. I will check into it on Monday.
Regards
Les Kearney
RV10 #643 - Inventorying a plethora of bags containing wee tiny tail kit
parts
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
philwhite9@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 3:10 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Priming in a confined space
Les: I am in a garage, with bedrooms above, and a wife who is very
sensitive to toxins with allergies. My research led to Aircraft
Finishing
Systems, http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/primer-sealer.htm, the only
source
of water-based finishes that aren't toxic. I am very satisfied with
their
primer that I've used on all my interior mating surfaces. I expect to
paint
the exterior with their products.
Phil (40220) doors & windows
_____
Message 19
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| Subject: | Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Rob Wright" <armywrights@adelphia.net>
Call Vans again. I spoke with one of the girls (Jessica?) about some kind
of flowchart that we were talking about on the list. She had an idea of
what I meant and sent it out to me hardcopy (I have no scanner. It's a
simple flowchart with all the sections in gray or white defining what the
builder still has to do. Problem is, there are still portions of the QB
stuff done in the Philippines that either was not completed or not completed
correctly. So in short, yes you really should sit out with your plans
beside your wings/fuse and go step by step. As agonizing as it is, at the
end of three hours when you know exactly what you still have to do, you can
realize that 3 hours of verifying is better than 3 or more months of
monotonous building. They still leave the funner stuff for you to do, and
it's still within the 51% spirit and letter of the law.
Rob Wright
#392 Buildus interruptus for sister's wedding...
Moving workshop to the hangar when I get back to join the tailcone to the
fuse!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Maib
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining
--> RV10-List message posted by: David Maib <dmaib@mac.com>
I called and asked Vans about such a list. The answer was that they
wanted the builder to have to read all of the plans as if it were a
slow build. This is to educate the builder about how the whole thing
is built. Seems like a reasonable idea, but I would still like to
know just what has and what has not been done on my QB.
David Maib
#40559
tailcone
On Oct 14, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Larry Rosen wrote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen@comcast.net>
From my archives.
Robert G. Wright wrote:
>
> Bill, good luck on this one.
>
> When my QB Wings and Fuse arrived, I went through the plans as
> thoroughly as I thought I could, noting what was left to do, but
> didn't make a separate list. Even if I had, I've found lately that
> I've had to go back and do things that I overlooked, and then go
> back and fit the thing I was working on in the first place! It's
> not bad because it's kind of a checks and balances, but it sure
> throws you off of your rhythm when it happens.
>
> For me, these incidental things just "get done" and I've not tried
> to annotate them when I come across them, because it's all in the
> name of getting back to the original task. So a good, thorough,
> complete list seems like pie in the sky. There are parts of the
> plans, however, that do say for Slowbuild, do this, for QB, do
> this. That's not everywhere in the plans, but seems to be the
> author's choice when he wrote that section. Probably wouldn't be
> hard for Vans to make a separate set of plans since the QB stuff is
> done the same way every time, but then we wouldn't have the slow-
> build sections to reference in case we needed to redo a part or
> needed to modify something to suit our own missions.
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392 QB Wings
>
> Tru-Trak Servos delivered yesterday!
>
> Finishing kit delivery next Thurs!
>
> Engine paid for awaiting delivery!
>
> Need more money/time/arms!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-
> list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Reining
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 13, 2006 8:42 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Quick Build (QB) Wings & Fuse - Steps Remaining
>
> Has anyone posted a detailed list of what has already been done,
> and what remains to be done, for the QB wings and fuselage? Ideally
> something that references the plans, such as: for the wings,
> sections xx all complete, steps yy in section zz. need to be
> finished. I checked the archive, but had no luck.
>
> Bill Reining - going to OSH all week
>
> Tail cone
>
> 40514
>
> N475R reserved
>
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