Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:10 AM - Re: AFS primer (arthurww)
2. 05:33 AM - Looking for photos (Wayne Edgerton)
3. 05:54 AM - Re: Re: AFS primer (Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX)
4. 07:10 AM - Re: Looking for photos (Deems Davis)
5. 07:29 AM - Re: Fuselage Conduit Support (Phillips, Jack)
6. 07:38 AM - Re: Fuselage Conduit Support (John W. Cox)
7. 10:12 AM - Re: Fuselage Conduit Support (jsmcgrew@AOL.COM)
8. 10:18 AM - Re: Fuselage Conduit Support (jsmcgrew@aol.com)
9. 10:37 AM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (Deems Davis)
10. 01:09 PM - FW: RV-List: RV specific search engine (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
11. 02:57 PM - Built-in Oxygen System (Eric Parlow)
12. 06:00 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (Kelly McMullen)
13. 06:25 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (Deems Davis)
14. 06:49 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (John Ackerman)
15. 07:25 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (John W. Cox)
16. 07:44 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (David McNeill)
17. 07:46 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (David McNeill)
18. 08:04 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (John W. Cox)
19. 08:15 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (Deems Davis)
20. 08:26 PM - front seat belts (David McNeill)
21. 09:58 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (John Gonzalez)
22. 10:30 PM - Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool (Kelly McMullen)
Message 1
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "arthurww" <arthur@cftech.co.uk>
Todd,
Have you considered doing some tests to see how the Sanchem treated alu
compares to untreated? ( like hang in a jam jar of salt water)
Have you got any info on which Safegard system you are using, and what the process
involves?
The Sanchem website is not very good.
Regards
Arthur
--------
#40641 EMP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70084#70084
Message 2
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| Subject: | Looking for photos |
I've been searching the archives to find the photos of Debbie Dewey and
Jim Erskin's plane, hope I spelled their names correctly, when it was at
Oshkosh, with no luck.
Can someone please direct me to where they are hiding :>}
Wayne Edgerton #40336
Message 3
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--> RV10-List message posted by: "Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX" <Todd.Stovall@pentagon.af.mil>
Arthur,
Not really. Since I'm priming I'm not too concerned about it. It's costing me
a little extra time and money to do it, but if it helps even a little bit, I'm
satisfied. If you have any doubts, want the guaranteed max protection, and
aren't concerned about working with hazardous material, then I'd go the Alodine
route. Some other folks over on the Van's Air Force forum have looked into
Sanchem (do a search on it) and it would appear to offer protection similar (I
won't say "the same") as Alodine. Time will tell I suppose....
Todd
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of arthurww
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:10 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: AFS primer
--> RV10-List message posted by: "arthurww" <arthur@cftech.co.uk>
Todd,
Have you considered doing some tests to see how the Sanchem treated alu
compares to untreated? ( like hang in a jam jar of salt water)
Have you got any info on which Safegard system you are using, and what the process
involves?
The Sanchem website is not very good.
Regards
Arthur
--------
#40641 EMP
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=70084#70084
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for photos |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Wayne you'll find several shots of their plane in this album:
http://deemsrv10.com/album/OSHKOSH%202006/index.html
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing (A Misnomer!)
http://deemsrv10.com/
Wayne Edgerton wrote:
> I've been searching the archives to find the photos of Debbie Dewey
> and Jim Erskin's plane, hope I spelled their names correctly, when it
> was at Oshkosh, with no luck.
> Can someone please direct me to where they are hiding :>}
>
> Wayne Edgerton #40336
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Fuselage Conduit Support |
What is the weight comparison?
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:35 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
I put conduit under the baggage floor and supported it with adel
clamps. However, I did not like the Van's conduit. It is too flexible,
making it very difficult to route wire through. I bought 3/4" PEX pipe
from the local plumbing store. It is more flexible than PVC, yet much
more rigid than the corrugated black conduit. It is smooth on the inside
and is just under 7/8" OD so it was easy to enlarge the holes with a
7/8" unibit. I also put the conduit down the full length of each wing,
with a couple holes along the length to allow wires to exit.
PEX pipe is made for plumbing, so I did a non-scientific test to
compare it to Van's conduit. I used a heat gun to simulate an
overheating wire. Try taking a heat gun to the corrugated conduit: it
shrivels up like shrink wrap. By comparison the PEX is quite a bit more
robust when it comes to heat.
Photos attached.
Jim McGrew
Flying
In a message dated 10/24/2006 7:26:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight
Time, jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com writes:
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hasbrouck <mailto:jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com>
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
Niko,
I've done the same thing and supported the conduit
under the baggage floor with adel clamps. #19 drill used midway along
the baggage rib, #8 screw and nylok nut at each station. Works well.
Also fabricated a bracket to support the conduit as is exits the rear
bulkhead into the tailcone. Pics included.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
_________________________________________________
This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege
d, proprietary, or otherwise private information. If you have received it i
n error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any
other use of the email by you is prohibited.
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuselage Conduit Support |
Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult task.
For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use a
0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the instrument
panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each has
the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of heat
issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his loads
and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using welding
wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy intermittent
amperage flows.
The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel tanks
intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce avionic
interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
John
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
All valid points, John.
I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found as the
RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before I riveted
those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and installing
the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I ended up doing 90% of
my wire runs through the conduit long after those areas were sealed up.
I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I realize that I deviated
from a perfect world to make things come together.
Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you plan on
inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
Jim
In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be located
quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And conversely,
your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires fuse? You were
right that it is about heat. Should PEX be translucent? cause
overheated wire is insulated with a product so that there is a marked
and visible color change with excessive heat increase. Three distinct
stages just like skin burns. Tim has some good shots. I had forwarded
him the same presentation in Living Color. It is all about
identification of an impending issue before reality sets in during
flight. Otherwise the discussion migrates to inflight backup systems /
vacuum gages, fire annunciation, fire suppression and software to
identify the safest and quick route to the ground with a safe departure
from the aircraft.
Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile environment.
John
Do not Archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Conduit Support |
Removable floor panels would be very nice, but quite a bit of work. I'm inte
rested in seeing how that turns out. The rear seat and baggage area panels a
re structural (thus the 1000's of pop rivets holding them down), make sure y
ou engineer your .025" composite panel and fasteners to handle the loads pro
perly!
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: johnwcox@pacificnw.com
Sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:37 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult task. For
one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use a 0.25
=9D composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of removal
and inspection. I also see value in access to the instrument panel area.
I will group bundles and separate their runs so each has the ability to shed
heat independent of a specific run. There are specific circuits which tend
to create the largest percentage of heat issues. Each aircraft is unique. T
im did a great job posting his loads and analyzing this issue. I will never
intentionally load a wire circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I
will be using welding wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and hea
vy intermittent amperage flows.
The good news is we don=99t run electrical wire through our fuel tanks
intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No automot
ive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an onboard fire on a
1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce avionic int
erference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
All valid points, John.
I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found as the RV-
10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before I riveted those
floor panels down permanently and before skinning and installing the wings.
Call it convenience if you will, but I ended up doing 90% of my wire runs th
rough the conduit long after those areas were sealed up. I certainly didn't
make that decision lightly. I realize that I deviated from a perfect world t
o make things come together.
Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you plan on inspe
cting the wires under the baggage floor area?
Jim
In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, johnwcox@
pacificnw.com writes:
Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be located quicker in
Van=99s black corrugated due to heat shrink. And conversely, your PEX
will mask the heat increase till the wires fuse? You were right that it is
about heat. Should PEX be translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated
with a product so that there is a marked and visible color change with exces
sive heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns. Tim has some
good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in Living Color. It
is all about identification of an impending issue before reality sets in du
ring flight. Otherwise the discussion migrates to inflight backup systems /
vacuum gages, fire annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify
the safest and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the airc
raft.
Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest quality to meet
the task and to inspect for impending potential problems. Wiring by its nat
ure functions in a hostile environment.
John
Do not Archive
________________________________________________________________________
ee AOL Mail and more.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage Conduit Support |
I did not even consider weight in my decision. PEX is certainly heavier. I have
about 35' of it in my plane, assuming maybe 1 oz per foot thats 2 lbs. I didn't
really worry about weight as I built N312JE, I built per the plans and ended
up with 1570# empty (minus paint and wheel pants). Not too bad.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack.Phillips@cardinal.com
Sent: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
What is the weight comparison?
Jack Phillips
#40610
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
I put conduit under the baggage floor and supported it with adel clamps. However,
I did not like the Van's conduit. It is too flexible, making it very difficult
to route wire through. I bought 3/4" PEX pipe from the local plumbing store.
It is more flexible than PVC, yet much more rigid than the corrugated black
conduit. It is smooth on the inside and is just under 7/8" OD so it was easy
to enlarge the holes with a 7/8" unibit. I also put the conduit down the full
length of each wing, with a couple holes along the length to allow wires to exit.
PEX pipe is made for plumbing, so I did a non-scientific test to compare it to
Van's conduit. I used a heat gun to simulate an overheating wire. Try taking a
heat gun to the corrugated conduit: it shrivels up like shrink wrap. By comparison
the PEX is quite a bit more robust when it comes to heat.
Photos attached.
Jim McGrew
Flying
In a message dated 10/24/2006 7:26:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jhasbrouck@woh.rr.com
writes:
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hasbrouck
Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
Niko,
I've done the same thing and supported the conduit under the baggage floor
with adel clamps. #19 drill used midway along the baggage rib, #8 screw and
nylok nut at each station. Works well. Also fabricated a bracket to support the
conduit as is exits the rear bulkhead into the tailcone. Pics included.
John Hasbrouck
#40264
_________________________________________________
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N
________________________________________________________________________
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
John W. Cox wrote:
> Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult task.
> For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use a
> 0.25 composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
> removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the instrument
> panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each has
> the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
> specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of heat
> issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his loads
> and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
> circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using welding
> wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy intermittent
> amperage flows.
>
> The good news is we dont run electrical wire through our fuel tanks
> intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
> automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
> onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
>
> A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
> avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
>
> John
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *JSMcGrew@aol.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
>
> All valid points, John.
>
> I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found as
> the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before I
> riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and
> installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I ended up
> doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those areas
> were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
> realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come together.
>
> Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you plan on
> inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
>
> Jim
>
> In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
>
> Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be located
> quicker in Vans black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
> conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires
> fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
> translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a product so
> that there is a marked and visible color change with excessive
> heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns. Tim has
> some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
> Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending issue
> before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the discussion
> migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
> annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the safest
> and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the aircraft.
>
> Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
> quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
> problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile environment.
>
> John
>
> Do not Archive
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | FW: RV-List: RV specific search engine |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder@sausen.net>
I thought I would post this over here for the people that aren't also
on the Yahoo or Matronics primary RV Builders list. Good stuff! Thanks
again for all your hard work Bob!
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:06 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV specific search engine
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a@comcast.net>
Hi there:
I'm in the process of moving the RV Builder's Hotline over to the
Expercraft server, and today I started playing with the Google custom
search engine.
I've set up a RV-specific Google search here
(http://rvhotline.expercraft.com/articles/search.html)
( http://rvhotline.expercraft.com/articles/search.html ), that
currently searches the Hotline archives, VAF, VAF forums, Matronics,
myrv10.com, rvproject.com, Rivetbangers and a few others.
Still some bugs to work out, but I'd like to add other sites, and the
page allows for collaborators to add their sites. And the code is also
provided there if folks want to use it on their own sites.
If you'd like to collaborate, go here:
http://tinyurl.com/y7frdy
I think this could be a good and useful tool to continue aggregating RV
information across the far-flung universe.
Apologies for cross postings.
Do not archive
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
RV Builder's Hotline (free!)
http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/
Message 11
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| Subject: | Built-in Oxygen System |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
I'm planning to use the Mountain High oxygen system.
I know a few -10 builders have also used this system.
The question is: how did you integrated it into the plane?
Not so much the bottle, but the 4 oxygen ports/EDS boxes.
Is an overhead mounting preferred over one in the tunnel cover or side
panel?
They also offer a new 2 place system in one EDS box, the O2D2--EDS 2-Place.
See http://www.mhoxygen.com/index.phtml?nav_id=28&product_id=421
Has anyone considered using this and then how to mount it?
Maybe use this 2 place EDS unit upfront with the <$ MH3 or MH4 regulators in
back.
ERic--
40014
Oxygen Sys
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
project/plane for me.
On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
> account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>
> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
>
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
> > Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult task.
> > For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use a
> > 0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
> > removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the instrument
> > panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each has
> > the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
> > specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of heat
> > issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his loads
> > and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
> > circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using welding
> > wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy intermittent
> > amperage flows.
> >
> > The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel tanks
> > intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
> > automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
> > onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
> >
> > A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
> > avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
> >
> > John
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> > *JSMcGrew@aol.com
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
> >
> > All valid points, John.
> >
> > I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found as
> > the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before I
> > riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and
> > installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I ended up
> > doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those areas
> > were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
> > realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come together.
> >
> > Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you plan on
> > inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
> >
> > Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be located
> > quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
> > conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires
> > fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
> > translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a product so
> > that there is a marked and visible color change with excessive
> > heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns. Tim has
> > some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
> > Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending issue
> > before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the discussion
> > migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
> > annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the safest
> > and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the aircraft.
> >
> > Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
> > quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
> > problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile environment.
> >
> > John
> >
> > Do not Archive
> >
> >*
> >
> >
> >*
> >
>
>
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Why don't we try and do what we do @ OHS and meet @ Van's tent @ 10:00?
Anybody else on the list planning on being there?
PS. My cell # is 623 521 2000
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Kelly McMullen wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
>
> Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
> looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
> project/plane for me.
>
> On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
>> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
>> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
>> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
>> account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
>> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
>> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>>
>> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
>>
>>
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>>
>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>
>> > Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult task.
>> > For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use a
>> > 0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
>> > removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the instrument
>> > panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each has
>> > the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
>> > specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of heat
>> > issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his loads
>> > and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
>> > circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using welding
>> > wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy intermittent
>> > amperage flows.
>> >
>> > The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel tanks
>> > intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
>> > automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
>> > onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
>> >
>> > A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
>> > avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> > *JSMcGrew@aol.com
>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
>> >
>> > All valid points, John.
>> >
>> > I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found as
>> > the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before I
>> > riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and
>> > installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I ended up
>> > doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those areas
>> > were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
>> > realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come
>> together.
>> >
>> > Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you plan on
>> > inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
>> >
>> > Jim
>> >
>> > In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> > johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
>> >
>> > Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be located
>> > quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
>> > conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires
>> > fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
>> > translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a product so
>> > that there is a marked and visible color change with excessive
>> > heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns. Tim has
>> > some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
>> > Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending issue
>> > before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the discussion
>> > migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
>> > annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the safest
>> > and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the
>> aircraft.
>> >
>> > Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
>> > quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
>> > problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile environment.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> > Do not Archive
>> >
>> >*
>> >
>> >
>> >*
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net>
A couple of us from KPRC. Should be there before 10:00 on Sat.
John Ackerman
On Oct 25, 2006, at 6:25 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Why don't we try and do what we do @ OHS and meet @ Van's tent @
> 10:00? Anybody else on the list planning on being there?
>
> PS. My cell # is 623 521 2000
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
>>
>> Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
>> looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
>> project/plane for me.
>>
>> On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>>
>>> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to
>>> start a
>>> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
>>> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody
>>> interested
>>> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an
>>> escrow
>>> account. The person closest to the actual date without going
>>> over/beyond
>>> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded
>>> from
>>> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>>>
>>> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
>>>
>>>
>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>
>>> > Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult
>>> task.
>>> > For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use
>>> a
>>> > 0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
>>> > removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the
>>> instrument
>>> > panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each
>>> has
>>> > the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
>>> > specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of
>>> heat
>>> > issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his
>>> loads
>>> > and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
>>> > circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using
>>> welding
>>> > wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy
>>> intermittent
>>> > amperage flows.
>>> >
>>> > The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel
>>> tanks
>>> > intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
>>> > automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
>>> > onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
>>> >
>>> > A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
>>> > avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
>>> >
>>> > John
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ---
>>> >
>>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>> > *JSMcGrew@aol.com
>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
>>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
>>> >
>>> > All valid points, John.
>>> >
>>> > I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found
>>> as
>>> > the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before
>>> I
>>> > riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and
>>> > installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I ended
>>> up
>>> > doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those
>>> areas
>>> > were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
>>> > realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come
>>> together.
>>> >
>>> > Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you
>>> plan on
>>> > inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
>>> >
>>> > Jim
>>> >
>>> > In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> > johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
>>> >
>>> > Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be
>>> located
>>> > quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
>>> > conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires
>>> > fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
>>> > translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a product
>>> so
>>> > that there is a marked and visible color change with excessive
>>> > heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns. Tim
>>> has
>>> > some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
>>> > Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending
>>> issue
>>> > before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the discussion
>>> > migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
>>> > annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the
>>> safest
>>> > and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the
>>> aircraft.
>>> >
>>> > Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
>>> > quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
>>> > problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile
>>> environment.
>>> >
>>> > John
>>> >
>>> > Do not Archive
>>> >
>>> >*
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >*
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Working graves tonight. Arrive CGZ tomorrow after flying on a company
asset in the AM. Staying in Scottsdale for six days five nights (No
Holiday Inn for me). Cellphone 503-453-6016. Money in my pocket for
Scott/Ray and Ranae's avgas. I want to see an RV-10 grand champion
before my completion. Don't make me go to Sun 'N Fun! Oh yeh, if some
other RV-10 wins it, I will pony up for them and the Schmidt's can walk
home.
Deems - add five days to the 1/20/2020 date for going to Copperstate.
John
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
McMullen
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
project/plane for me.
On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start
a
> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody
interested
> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an
escrow
> account. The person closest to the actual date without going
over/beyond
> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded
from
> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>
> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
>
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
any chance of earlier meeting at Van's? I have to leave by 1030.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:25 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Why don't we try and do what we do @ OHS and meet @ Van's tent @ 10:00?
> Anybody else on the list planning on being there?
>
> PS. My cell # is 623 521 2000
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
>>
>> Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
>> looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
>> project/plane for me.
>>
>> On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>>
>>> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start a
>>> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
>>> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody interested
>>> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an escrow
>>> account. The person closest to the actual date without going over/beyond
>>> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded from
>>> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>>>
>>> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
>>>
>>>
>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>
>>> > Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult task.
>>> > For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use a
>>> > 0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
>>> > removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the instrument
>>> > panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each has
>>> > the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
>>> > specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of heat
>>> > issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his loads
>>> > and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
>>> > circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using welding
>>> > wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy intermittent
>>> > amperage flows.
>>> >
>>> > The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel tanks
>>> > intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
>>> > automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
>>> > onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
>>> >
>>> > A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
>>> > avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
>>> >
>>> > John
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>> > *JSMcGrew@aol.com
>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
>>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
>>> >
>>> > All valid points, John.
>>> >
>>> > I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found as
>>> > the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before I
>>> > riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and
>>> > installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I ended up
>>> > doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those areas
>>> > were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
>>> > realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come
>>> together.
>>> >
>>> > Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you plan on
>>> > inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
>>> >
>>> > Jim
>>> >
>>> > In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>> > johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
>>> >
>>> > Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be located
>>> > quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
>>> > conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires
>>> > fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
>>> > translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a product so
>>> > that there is a marked and visible color change with excessive
>>> > heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns. Tim has
>>> > some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
>>> > Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending issue
>>> > before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the discussion
>>> > migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
>>> > annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the safest
>>> > and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the
>>> aircraft.
>>> >
>>> > Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
>>> > quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
>>> > problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile environment.
>>> >
>>> > John
>>> >
>>> > Do not Archive
>>> >
>>> >*
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >*
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
any possibility of meeting at 0900 or 930. I have to be back at home by
1100.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ackerman" <johnag5b@cableone.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
> --> RV10-List message posted by: John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net>
>
> A couple of us from KPRC. Should be there before 10:00 on Sat.
> John Ackerman
>
> On Oct 25, 2006, at 6:25 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>> Why don't we try and do what we do @ OHS and meet @ Van's tent @ 10:00?
>> Anybody else on the list planning on being there?
>>
>> PS. My cell # is 623 521 2000
>>
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
>>> looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
>>> project/plane for me.
>>>
>>> On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>>>
>>>> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start
>>>> a
>>>> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
>>>> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody
>>>> interested
>>>> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an
>>>> escrow
>>>> account. The person closest to the actual date without going
>>>> over/beyond
>>>> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded
>>>> from
>>>> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>>>>
>>>> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>>> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
>>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult
>>>> task.
>>>> > For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use
>>>> a
>>>> > 0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
>>>> > removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the
>>>> instrument
>>>> > panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each
>>>> has
>>>> > the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
>>>> > specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of
>>>> heat
>>>> > issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his
>>>> loads
>>>> > and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
>>>> > circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using
>>>> welding
>>>> > wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy
>>>> intermittent
>>>> > amperage flows.
>>>> >
>>>> > The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel
>>>> tanks
>>>> > intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
>>>> > automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
>>>> > onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
>>>> >
>>>> > A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
>>>> > avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
>>>> >
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---
>>>> >
>>>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>>> > *JSMcGrew@aol.com
>>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
>>>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
>>>> >
>>>> > All valid points, John.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found
>>>> as
>>>> > the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before
>>>> I
>>>> > riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and
>>>> > installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I ended
>>>> up
>>>> > doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those
>>>> areas
>>>> > were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
>>>> > realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come
>>>> together.
>>>> >
>>>> > Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you
>>>> plan on
>>>> > inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
>>>> >
>>>> > Jim
>>>> >
>>>> > In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> > johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
>>>> >
>>>> > Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be
>>>> located
>>>> > quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
>>>> > conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires
>>>> > fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
>>>> > translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a product
>>>> so
>>>> > that there is a marked and visible color change with excessive
>>>> > heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns. Tim
>>>> has
>>>> > some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
>>>> > Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending
>>>> issue
>>>> > before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the discussion
>>>> > migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
>>>> > annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the
>>>> safest
>>>> > and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the
>>>> aircraft.
>>>> >
>>>> > Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
>>>> > quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
>>>> > problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile
>>>> environment.
>>>> >
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> > Do not Archive
>>>> >
>>>> >*
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >*
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
Friday and Saturday 9 and 10 at VANS. Again at 3 for those who have an
afternoon hall pass.
John W. Cox
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
--> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
any possibility of meeting at 0900 or 930. I have to be back at home by
1100.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ackerman" <johnag5b@cableone.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
> --> RV10-List message posted by: John Ackerman <johnag5b@cableone.net>
>
> A couple of us from KPRC. Should be there before 10:00 on Sat.
> John Ackerman
>
> On Oct 25, 2006, at 6:25 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>> Why don't we try and do what we do @ OHS and meet @ Van's tent @
10:00?
>> Anybody else on the list planning on being there?
>>
>> PS. My cell # is 623 521 2000
>>
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen"
<apilot2@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
>>> looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
>>> project/plane for me.
>>>
>>> On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>>>
>>>> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to
start
>>>> a
>>>> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
>>>> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody
>>>> interested
>>>> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an
>>>> escrow
>>>> account. The person closest to the actual date without going
>>>> over/beyond
>>>> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded
>>>> from
>>>> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>>>>
>>>> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>>> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
>>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult
>>>> task.
>>>> > For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will
use
>>>> a
>>>> > 0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease
of
>>>> > removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the
>>>> instrument
>>>> > panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each
>>>> has
>>>> > the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
>>>> > specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of
>>>> heat
>>>> > issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his
>>>> loads
>>>> > and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
>>>> > circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using
>>>> welding
>>>> > wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy
>>>> intermittent
>>>> > amperage flows.
>>>> >
>>>> > The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel
>>>> tanks
>>>> > intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers.
No
>>>> > automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
>>>> > onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
>>>> >
>>>> > A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
>>>> > avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
>>>> >
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ---
>>>> >
>>>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>>> > *JSMcGrew@aol.com
>>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
>>>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
>>>> >
>>>> > All valid points, John.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found
>>>> as
>>>> > the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done
before
>>>> I
>>>> > riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning
and
>>>> > installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I
ended
>>>> up
>>>> > doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those
>>>> areas
>>>> > were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
>>>> > realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come
>>>> together.
>>>> >
>>>> > Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you
>>>> plan on
>>>> > inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
>>>> >
>>>> > Jim
>>>> >
>>>> > In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight
Time,
>>>> > johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
>>>> >
>>>> > Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be
>>>> located
>>>> > quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
>>>> > conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the
wires
>>>> > fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
>>>> > translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a
product
>>>> so
>>>> > that there is a marked and visible color change with
excessive
>>>> > heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns.
Tim
>>>> has
>>>> > some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
>>>> > Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending
>>>> issue
>>>> > before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the
discussion
>>>> > migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
>>>> > annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the
>>>> safest
>>>> > and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the
>>>> aircraft.
>>>> >
>>>> > Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
>>>> > quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending
potential
>>>> > problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile
>>>> environment.
>>>> >
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> > Do not Archive
>>>> >
>>>> >*
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >*
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Per Dave's request How about we meet @ Van's @ 9:00 instead of 10? will
that work for every one. (Dave has to be back up North early Sat).
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
David McNeill wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
>
> any chance of earlier meeting at Van's? I have to leave by 1030.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:25 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
>
>
>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>
>> Why don't we try and do what we do @ OHS and meet @ Van's tent @
>> 10:00? Anybody else on the list planning on being there?
>>
>> PS. My cell # is 623 521 2000
>>
>> Deems Davis # 406
>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>
>> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
>>> looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
>>> project/plane for me.
>>>
>>> On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>>>>
>>>> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to
>>>> start a
>>>> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
>>>> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody
>>>> interested
>>>> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an
>>>> escrow
>>>> account. The person closest to the actual date without going
>>>> over/beyond
>>>> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded
>>>> from
>>>> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
>>>>
>>>> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>>> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
>>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John W. Cox wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult
>>>> task.
>>>> > For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use a
>>>> > 0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
>>>> > removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the instrument
>>>> > panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each has
>>>> > the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
>>>> > specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of
>>>> heat
>>>> > issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his
>>>> loads
>>>> > and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
>>>> > circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using
>>>> welding
>>>> > wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy intermittent
>>>> > amperage flows.
>>>> >
>>>> > The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel tanks
>>>> > intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
>>>> > automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
>>>> > onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
>>>> >
>>>> > A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
>>>> > avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
>>>> >
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>>> > *JSMcGrew@aol.com
>>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
>>>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
>>>> >
>>>> > All valid points, John.
>>>> >
>>>> > I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found as
>>>> > the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before I
>>>> > riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and
>>>> > installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I
>>>> ended up
>>>> > doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those areas
>>>> > were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
>>>> > realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come
>>>> together.
>>>> >
>>>> > Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you
>>>> plan on
>>>> > inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
>>>> >
>>>> > Jim
>>>> >
>>>> > In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>>>> > johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
>>>> >
>>>> > Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be located
>>>> > quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
>>>> > conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires
>>>> > fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
>>>> > translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a
>>>> product so
>>>> > that there is a marked and visible color change with excessive
>>>> > heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns.
>>>> Tim has
>>>> > some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
>>>> > Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending
>>>> issue
>>>> > before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the discussion
>>>> > migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
>>>> > annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the
>>>> safest
>>>> > and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the
>>>> aircraft.
>>>> >
>>>> > Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
>>>> > quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
>>>> > problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile
>>>> environment.
>>>> >
>>>> > John
>>>> >
>>>> > Do not Archive
>>>> >
>>>> >*
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >*
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | front seat belts |
For those who are using the three point fixed belts in the front seats
which shoulder does the shoulder belt come over? pilot? copilot?
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Nice to see the Humor! Very wonderful.
John Cox might be finished before me. My five year old daughter is growing
up too fast and the hours in the shop pass bye just as fast too.
Man that VS fiberglass fairing had a crappy shape to it. Poor tooling or
pulled from the mold way too early. There is some unexpected weight
addition in filler compound!
JOhn G. 409 finishing up everything on the tail section, everything! I
think?
Do Not archive
>From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
>Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:24:22 -0700
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
>Working graves tonight. Arrive CGZ tomorrow after flying on a company
>asset in the AM. Staying in Scottsdale for six days five nights (No
>Holiday Inn for me). Cellphone 503-453-6016. Money in my pocket for
>Scott/Ray and Ranae's avgas. I want to see an RV-10 grand champion
>before my completion. Don't make me go to Sun 'N Fun! Oh yeh, if some
>other RV-10 wins it, I will pony up for them and the Schmidt's can walk
>home.
>
>Deems - add five days to the 1/20/2020 date for going to Copperstate.
>
>John
>Do not Archive
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kelly
>McMullen
>Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:00 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
>
>--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
>
>Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
>looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
>project/plane for me.
>
>On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> >
> > John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to start
>a
> > pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> > selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody
>interested
> > just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an
>escrow
> > account. The person closest to the actual date without going
>over/beyond
> > takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded
>from
> > entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
> >
> > PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
> >
>
>
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool |
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
I probably won't make it before 9:30, but no problem.
On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>
> Per Dave's request How about we meet @ Van's @ 9:00 instead of 10? will
> that work for every one. (Dave has to be back up North early Sat).
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> David McNeill wrote:
>
> > --> RV10-List message posted by: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> >
> > any chance of earlier meeting at Van's? I have to leave by 1030.
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> > To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 6:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: John Cox's Mod/Enhancement/Completion Date Pool
> >
> >
> >> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> >>
> >> Why don't we try and do what we do @ OHS and meet @ Van's tent @
> >> 10:00? Anybody else on the list planning on being there?
> >>
> >> PS. My cell # is 623 521 2000
> >>
> >> Deems Davis # 406
> >> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> >> http://deemsrv10.com/
> >>
> >> Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >>
> >>> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Kelly McMullen" <apilot2@gmail.com>
> >>>
> >>> Any particular gathering spot or time Sat. at CGZ? I'l be there
> >>> looking to gather all possible data as to whether building RV-10 is
> >>> project/plane for me.
> >>>
> >>> On 10/25/06, Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> --> RV10-List message posted by: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
> >>>>
> >>>> John, This must be modification/enhancement # 387, I'm going to
> >>>> start a
> >>>> pool based on your 10's 1st flight/completion date: The earliest
> >>>> selection possible is Jan 20, 2020 (That's my pick). Anybody
> >>>> interested
> >>>> just send me $10 and the date you pick, I'll put the money in an
> >>>> escrow
> >>>> account. The person closest to the actual date without going
> >>>> over/beyond
> >>>> takes it all (Oh yeah and John and his family members are excluded
> >>>> from
> >>>> entering !) I'll post the estimates/selections on my web site. :-D
> >>>>
> >>>> PS. John, Looking forward to seeing you @ Copperstate this Sat,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Deems Davis # 406
> >>>> Finishing - (A Misnomer ! )
> >>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> John W. Cox wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > Knowing the importance of inspecting wiring, that is a difficult
> >>>> task.
> >>>> > For one, I will not be permanent riveting floor panels. I will use a
> >>>> > 0.25" composite panel which is fastened into nut plates for ease of
> >>>> > removal and inspection. I also see value in access to the instrument
> >>>> > panel area. I will group bundles and separate their runs so each has
> >>>> > the ability to shed heat independent of a specific run. There are
> >>>> > specific circuits which tend to create the largest percentage of
> >>>> heat
> >>>> > issues. Each aircraft is unique. Tim did a great job posting his
> >>>> loads
> >>>> > and analyzing this issue. I will never intentionally load a wire
> >>>> > circuit above 80% of its rated carry capacity. I will be using
> >>>> welding
> >>>> > wire for the battery terminals, starter leads and heavy intermittent
> >>>> > amperage flows.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > The good news is we don't run electrical wire through our fuel tanks
> >>>> > intentionally. I will use only aviation rated circuit breakers. No
> >>>> > automotive (save a nickel) corner cutting. I have already had an
> >>>> > onboard fire on a 1978 Ford. Nuf learned.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > A separate issue is grounding and twisted wire bundles to reduce
> >>>> > avionic interference. All of this is best covered elsewhere.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > John
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> >>>> > *JSMcGrew@aol.com
> >>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:21 PM
> >>>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Fuselage Conduit Support
> >>>> >
> >>>> > All valid points, John.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I would like to point out that one of the challenges that I found as
> >>>> > the RV-10 comes together is getting the wire runs 100% done before I
> >>>> > riveted those floor panels down permanently and before skinning and
> >>>> > installing the wings. Call it convenience if you will, but I
> >>>> ended up
> >>>> > doing 90% of my wire runs through the conduit long after those areas
> >>>> > were sealed up. I certainly didn't make that decision lightly. I
> >>>> > realize that I deviated from a perfect world to make things come
> >>>> together.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Are you going to stay away from conduit altogether? How do you
> >>>> plan on
> >>>> > inspecting the wires under the baggage floor area?
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Jim
> >>>> >
> >>>> > In a message dated 10/24/2006 10:19:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >>>> > johnwcox@pacificnw.com writes:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Jim, should we conclude that a heated wire bundle can be located
> >>>> > quicker in Van's black corrugated due to heat shrink. And
> >>>> > conversely, your PEX will mask the heat increase till the wires
> >>>> > fuse? You were right that it is about heat. Should PEX be
> >>>> > translucent? cause overheated wire is insulated with a
> >>>> product so
> >>>> > that there is a marked and visible color change with excessive
> >>>> > heat increase. Three distinct stages just like skin burns.
> >>>> Tim has
> >>>> > some good shots. I had forwarded him the same presentation in
> >>>> > Living Color. It is all about identification of an impending
> >>>> issue
> >>>> > before reality sets in during flight. Otherwise the discussion
> >>>> > migrates to inflight backup systems / vacuum gages, fire
> >>>> > annunciation, fire suppression and software to identify the
> >>>> safest
> >>>> > and quick route to the ground with a safe departure from the
> >>>> aircraft.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Always use the lightest gage, the shortest run, the highest
> >>>> > quality to meet the task and to inspect for impending potential
> >>>> > problems. Wiring by its nature functions in a hostile
> >>>> environment.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > John
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Do not Archive
> >>>> >
> >>>> >*
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> >*
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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