Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:22 AM - Possible insurance lead ()
2. 04:45 AM - Word of encouragement to all that post ()
3. 04:57 AM - Re: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse (Mark Ritter)
4. 05:19 AM - Re: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse (Tim Olson)
5. 05:40 AM - Re: Word of encouragement to all that post (Tim Olson)
6. 08:03 AM - Re: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse (Jesse Saint)
7. 09:00 AM - Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone (John Jessen)
8. 09:42 AM - Re: Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone (Tim Olson)
9. 10:14 AM - Re: Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone (John Jessen)
10. 10:38 AM - Testing the waters (John Jessen)
11. 11:36 AM - AOPA engine vendor thoughts (Pascal)
12. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone (Rene)
13. 05:20 PM - Engine trouble shoots-High #2 & #4 EGTs -Update (DejaVu)
14. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone (Tim Olson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Possible insurance lead |
I know that the RV series is a VERY reputable aircraft and
is probably one of the easiest to insure. Sometimes there
are snags.
As a "floater" on the Titan's T-51 list too, they are
having typical insurance snafu's for a new airframe but one
member posted a possible ray of light that may help
some of you considering the Ellenfinger-miester (sp?)
Subaru or other, this might be a good lead for you.
The posting member wrote:
No promises here, but a patient of mine gave me his card
when I mentioned I may be building and flying a T-51. He
is an insurance representative for AIR (Aviation Insurance
Representatives) which is a division of Delta Pacific
Services, Inc. Apparently he works extensively with EAA
aircraft. His name is Bob Sorrell. You can call him at
(888)265-0844 or email him at avinsrep@telebyte.com
Let us know what you find out, I will CC this email to
him.
Roger Ludwig Jr
F15DOC
Poulbso WA
Matt Geans
Builder Wanna-be
Message 2
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| Subject: | Word of encouragement to all that post |
All,
As a "floater" on the list for about 12 months now, I would
like to let all of you know how useful your RV-10 list is.
It's existance is encouraging to the level of support that
is here (what would we do without the internet?!?!) in the
event that the finances free up the means to build as most
of you are doing.
As a reader of Kitplanes for over 10 years I have learned
that with the internet, you can sample even learn about the
types of airframes you are considering before you even
commit teaching valueable lessons to ease your future
construction. I.E. the WD-415 trim nut attachments. I know
that Vans now has issued a "notice" and subsequent kits
will included the upgraded pieces.
Your list is NOT the norm! As I "float" on three lists,
Murphy Moose (hopefully Moose/Yukon soon - Hint Hint Matt),
Titan t-51 and the RV-10, yours is the most active in
postings, and info sharing.
This abundance of involvement along with pictures from all
various stages of construction provides me with the
entusiasm excitement and anticipation that Mr Les Kearney
just expierience receiving his tail kit. Sorry if I
spelled your last name wrong Les.
This list brings great credit to the -10 airframe and those
who build it and easily will be reason for many Van's sales
in the future.
For you other "floaters" that reach your purchase before I
do, if you feel that one builder has contributed to your
urge to purchase, contact them and get thier Vans customer
number. Visiting Dan Checkoway's site I noticed that Van's
has a referral system in place which benifits the builder
who referred you - "finder's fee" - but its a way to say
thanks when you purchase and let Vans know how thier
current customers are supporting them. If I hadn't been on
Dan's site, I would not have known about this.
Thank you all for everyone's effort. I hope in the next
few years to be able to contact Mike for some demo time in
his RV for consideration of a purchase. BTW I wouldn't
know about Mike if it were not for this listing.
Keep up the great work!
Matt Geans
Buider Wanna-Be
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse |
I have to use a little right rudder to keep the ball centered. Without
right rudder its about a half ball out to the right. Rudder trim is on my
list of things to do.
Mark (N410MR Flying)
>From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve@adelphia.net>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse
>Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 01:52:43 -0500
>
>Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a
>wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think its a
>great idea just need to make sure its needed.
>
>
>Thinking about rudders. Im seriously considering mounting the nav/gs
>antenna in the rudder. I cant find a certified example with an external
>antenna in a control surface, Im not sure if thats on purpose. Im
>thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So
>there shouldnt be a problem..
>
>Steve
>
>40205
>
>
>Subject: RV10-List: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse
>
>
>Hi
>
>
>I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder.
>The
>theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the rudder
>is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vics design as
>documented on Tim Olsons website (see HYPERLINK
>"http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html"http://myrv10.com/tips/mo
>ds/RudderTrim/index.html).
>
>
>The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access
>panel
>is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a flange
>that was riveted to the rudder skin. What I dont have are the dimensions
>of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I can guess but
>would prefer something a bit more accurate if available. Failing that, is
>the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the T3-12A servo that came
>with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the access panel size.
>
>
>Inquiring minds need to know ...
>
>
>Les Kearney
>
>RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab
>
>
>--
>11/10/2006
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>11/10/2006
>
_________________________________________________________________
Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free
trip!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse |
I don't know of any RV-10's flying that don't either have a rudder
tab wedge in place, or electric rudder trim. (I'm sure there's one
somewhere though, but none that I know of....but they would probably
not be flying perfectly straight) I myself have a wedge taped on.
It looks fine, and works ok in cruise at lower power settings.
The problem is, even adding 5-10kts is significant enough to make
the wedge too much trim, and flying at lower speeds makes it too
little.
I didn't have any believe in rudder trim when I started. My
previous plane didn't have it, and I didn't care. But as both my
aircraft quality, and flying quality has improved with the RV-10,
I now see it as a much more necessary item if you're going for a
truly nice flying airplane. I wish I would have done it earlier,
because it's harder to do after you've painted.
As far as your antenna in the rudder, I would most certainly
avoid that, from a balance standpoint, a wiring standpoint, and
more. Even when doing the rudder trim, the builders who've
checked with Van's had them recommend that the servo be mounted
forward enough to balance the trim control on the aft side. I
really think putting an antenna there is a bad idea...especially
given the abundance of GOOD locations for the antenna.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
Steven DiNieri wrote:
> Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a
> wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think
> its a great idea just need to make sure its needed.
>
>
>
> Thinking about rudders. Im seriously considering mounting the nav/gs
> antenna in the rudder. I cant find a certified example with an external
> antenna in a control surface, Im not sure if thats on purpose. Im
> thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So
> there shouldnt be a problem..
>
> Steve
>
> 40205
>
>
>
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse
>
> I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder.
> The theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the
> rudder is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vics
> design as documented on Tim Olsons website (see
> http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html).
>
>
>
> The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access
> panel is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a
> flange that was riveted to the rudder skin. What I dont have are the
> dimensions of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I
> can guess but would prefer something a bit more accurate if available.
> Failing that, is the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the
> T3-12A servo that came with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the
> access panel size.
>
>
> Les Kearney
>
> RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Word of encouragement to all that post |
Matt,
Thanks for the great post of comments on the RV-10 list.
When I started building, there was a handful of people
who I never met and were on a list that I stumbled across.
It took a very short time to electronically get to know
them, and I still remember posting my first couple of
pleas for help, and advice. One thing I realized right away,
from being part of other organizations though, is that in order
for a list to be worth peoples time, there has to be contribution
from many members, and when people ask for help, they really
need replies. I can't believe the number of times I've needed
measurements, sizes, or information to proceed, and been saved
by other builders, so I feel the need to help people who request
also. (I vividly remember needing the overall gear-on height
to know if I could clear my garage door, for instance)
This list, for me, has turned into more of a family in some
cases, than a group of builders. I now have friends in
areas of the country, and even the world, that I would love
to go visit, and some of them are now closer than friends
I've had who lived right by me. When you have something in
common like the RV-10 project, you are never short of having
something to talk about with them.
As for contacting "Mike" for some demo time, I'm assuming you
mean Mike Seager? One thing I'd encourage you about is that
this "family" of builders is turning out new flying -10's
all the time. I know that if you look for someone near you
who's flying, you could easily get a demo flight from them. I
recently had a person call me from 2 states away who's planning
to come up here just to get a flight in my RV-10. It's something
I'm happy to do as long as we can work out a convenient time.
Good reminder too on the Van's Referral program. It really is
a great way to say thanks to any builder. I know one builder
who gave some great, free demo rides, and builders happily sent
their referrals to his number. I think that's a very cool way
to do it. I've gotten one referral from a list memeber (Thanks
again George!), and I definitely hope I can get him up for a
ride to repay the thanks. For any builder still holding their
referral form, or who's never sent theirs in, don't forget
about doing it...and that's not a plug for me, that's just
telling you not to waste the money by throwing the paper away.
You all have the power to return about $100 (if I remember
correctly) in thanks to some other fellow RV-10 builder who will
greatly appreciate your kindness. I'm not sure if Van's will
re-send you the form if you've thrown it away, but for builders
just receiving their kits, save that puppy!
Glad to have you posting, Matt. You don't have to be a builder
to contribute, and it's great that you came out of lurking to
put forth your comments.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
mgeans@provide.net wrote:
>
> All,
>
> As a "floater" on the list for about 12 months now, I would
> like to let all of you know how useful your RV-10 list is.
> It's existance is encouraging to the level of support that
> is here (what would we do without the internet?!?!) in the
> event that the finances free up the means to build as most
> of you are doing.
>
> As a reader of Kitplanes for over 10 years I have learned
> that with the internet, you can sample even learn about the
> types of airframes you are considering before you even
> commit teaching valueable lessons to ease your future
> construction. I.E. the WD-415 trim nut attachments. I know
> that Vans now has issued a "notice" and subsequent kits
> will included the upgraded pieces.
>
> Your list is NOT the norm! As I "float" on three lists,
> Murphy Moose (hopefully Moose/Yukon soon - Hint Hint Matt),
> Titan t-51 and the RV-10, yours is the most active in
> postings, and info sharing.
> This abundance of involvement along with pictures from all
> various stages of construction provides me with the
> entusiasm excitement and anticipation that Mr Les Kearney
> just expierience receiving his tail kit. Sorry if I
> spelled your last name wrong Les.
>
> This list brings great credit to the -10 airframe and those
> who build it and easily will be reason for many Van's sales
> in the future.
>
> For you other "floaters" that reach your purchase before I
> do, if you feel that one builder has contributed to your
> urge to purchase, contact them and get thier Vans customer
> number. Visiting Dan Checkoway's site I noticed that Van's
> has a referral system in place which benifits the builder
> who referred you - "finder's fee" - but its a way to say
> thanks when you purchase and let Vans know how thier
> current customers are supporting them. If I hadn't been on
> Dan's site, I would not have known about this.
>
> Thank you all for everyone's effort. I hope in the next
> few years to be able to contact Mike for some demo time in
> his RV for consideration of a purchase. BTW I wouldn't
> know about Mike if it were not for this listing.
>
> Keep up the great work!
>
> Matt Geans
> Buider Wanna-Be
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse |
I would have to agree with Tim that putting antennas in the rudder might
be
a mistake. Not only with balance issues but also because of the wire
wearing as the rudder moves. While it may remain fairly stationary in
flight, it certainly moves a LOT while on the ground taxiing. I don=92t
even
like having the wires to the tail lights back there, but that is hard to
avoid.
As far as the need to rudder trim, all three -10=92s I have spent time
in have
electric trim and are regularly =93stepping on the ball=94, depending on
how
they are flying and how they are loaded. I also don=92t think I have
seen one
without at least the wedge. I don=92t know how much speed is lost when
out of
trim, but I imagine it is measureable enough to justify. If putting on
just
a wedge, I would recommend putting it on to trim for cruise, whether you
like economy or speed. You definitely need some rudder in climb. With
the
options available (Aerotrim runs as little as $175 without the
indicator), I
think it is definitely a good mod to include.
I have mentioned Aerotrim a number of times, so I will give a little
more
detail (I have no financial connection whatsoever). This guy is usually
at
the big shows with a little half-booth (and very not-impressive) and an
airplane-through-the-head hat on. He is often sleeping, or at least
playing
with his dentures. He does, on the other hand, have a trim system that
is
STC=92ed or PMA=92ed for quite a few different certified airplanes. The
servo
supposedly has all metal gears, although I have not disassembled one to
find
out. The housing that the servo is in is not very professional, and the
wires coming out of the servo or included with the system are very small
(so
are the Ray Allen=92s), but it works very well. There are two wires, so
no
real option for an indicator unless you use his, which I think comes
centered just like the servo, and when you give power to run the servo,
you
are also sending the same power to the indicator that moves it. I
haven=92t
even considered using the indicator on the 10 trims that I have bought
from
him. The servo runs very slowly, which is fairly good for aileron or
rudder
trim, since those mostly need very minor adjustments during flight. The
servo comes with a hinge that you rivet onto the trailing edge. It has
a
spring that keeps it from fluttering/shaking/vibrating. It comes from
the
factory/garage mechanically centered, so you want to attach the hinge to
the
arm coming out of the servo with it centered before you run the servo.
It
also comes with pop rivets to attach the servo to the skin of the
aileron or
rudder (it is VERY lightweight) after you cut the hole for it. On 4 of
our
installations we decided to use nutplates on the skin and #6 countersunk
screws, which seems to be a good fit. The first 2 installations we made
were done after the plane was flying and without removing either the
aileron
or rudder, so painting it ahead of time should make it a very easy
installation for most people. For those considering it, I would
recommend
getting it without the toggle switch and without the bundle of wire that
comes with it and without the indicator (you can easily see the state of
the
aileron trim in flight, and the ball is the indicator on the panel for
the
rudder trim).
Well, that=92s it for now.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven
DiNieri
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:53 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse
Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a
wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think
it=92s a
great idea just need to make sure its needed.
Thinking about rudders=85. I=92m seriously considering mounting the
nav/gs
antenna in the rudder. I can=92t find a certified example with an
external
antenna in a control surface, I=92m not sure if that=92s on purpose.
I=92m
thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So
there shouldn=92t be a problem=85..
Steve
40205
Subject: RV10-List: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse
Hi
I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder.
The
theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the
rudder
is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic=92s design
as
documented on Tim Olson=92s website (see HYPERLINK
"http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html"http://myrv10.com/tips
/mo
ds/RudderTrim/index.html).
The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access
panel
is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a
flange
that was riveted to the rudder skin. What I don=92t have are the
dimensions
of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I can guess
but
would prefer something a bit more accurate if available. Failing that,
is
the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the T3-12A servo that
came
with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the access panel size.
Inquiring minds need to know ...
Les Kearney
RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab
--
11/10/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
11/10/2006
"http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com
"http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na
vig
ator?RV10-List
11/10/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
11/10/2006
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing |
up the top of the Tailcone
Update:
Last night I put in two pieces of angle running across from one side to the
other between the F-1007 and the F-1008 in the tailcone (see picture). It
took a couple of hours to figure out where I wanted it, cut some angle that
was extra, get it to the right shape, drill the holes and so on. It took
another couple hours thinking about it, talking about it, etc. All for 2
angles that may, just may be used to hold a magnetometer or some such thing.
I can't imagine what some of the more complex mods are costing folks in
terms of build time!
However, do this before putting on the top skin of the tailcone, should you
even remotely consider hanging an AHRS or some other electronic marvel back
there. Worth doing. I'm also going to put in extra wires for the rudder
trim, for the camera in the VS fairing, and for the two lights in the HS
that I turn on when on long final to light up my tail art.
Finally, at someone's suggestion posted on this list, I downloaded the MS
PowerToy to resize pictures. I use Irfanview to make the photo albums for
my website, but for quick and easy, my goodness, get the resize powertoy.
Well worth the couple minutes to download and install. Just right click any
photo you're viewing and select the size and you're done. One of the better
tools.
John Jessen
#40328 (Hey, Bruce, thanks for the jigs. Just noticed them last night)
_____
From: John Jessen [mailto:jjessen@rcn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
Well, one thing for sure, it all depends on which glass unit you decide on.
Rob's 3500 has the AHRS in the unit. The Chelton's have both remote, with
some placing the magnetometer in the wing, the AHRS in various locations.
Etc Etc. I'm not quite settled on the panel, and not quite settled on air
conditioning, or a hat shelf, so will place a "shelf" aft of the F-1007,
just in case, to hold whatever, or nothing. I almost agree to wait for the
top skinning, but then you have a major component not done. Others have
closed it up, made their decisions, crawled around in amazing contorted
positions to install, and are doing nicely flying from coast to coast.
So.... I'll compromise and move on. I've been on this tailcone for an
eternity and would like to get off of it.
John Jessen
#40328
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
My recommendation is to not button down the top three tail skins until
everything else is completed on the entire aircraft. You can start and even
perform slow taxi tests with these skins off. If you are going to install a
remote magnetometer or AHRS you can swing the compass and relocate the unit
as needed. Keep all clecos away from the AHRS as they are iron based.
I have constructed a simple shelf aftmost between the main fuselage longeron
and the elevator trim servo mechanism. My first AHRS in installed in that
location was affected by the trim servo motor (not running). I scrapped this
AHRS for other reasons and now tasked to locate the Cross-bow properly.
You can not locate the AHRS just behind the baggage bulkhead no matter how
high it is installed above the floor. Variable magnetic fields from the
baggage will affect your heading information in uncontrollable ways.
The Cross-bow has a good hard iron calibration routine so my next approach
will be to locate it far aft and calibrate the magnetic interferrence from
the trim servo motor out of the heading. With this approach there is only
one source of interferrence.
My suggestion is to delay installation of the three top skins to the very
end. I will report back after I am satisfied with my AHRS installation.
Bill DeRouchey
HYPERLINK "mailto:billderou@yahoo.com"billderou@yahoo.com
N939SB, flying with a few pit stops
Chris <toaster73@earthlink.net> wrote:
I'd consider the ability to keep it water tight as well.
One other way of thinking about these considerations is just to not bother
planning ahead. Just finish the airframe and then install the various
pieces of gear. then you will be sure that it can be serviced later and you
will have figured out the best way to contort yourself to get at it for the
future maintenance.
-Chris Lucas
#40072 (cabin side skins)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis"
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
> Good point Kelly !, thanks for keeping this Dreamer grounded in a safer
> reality. Could it be accomplished by installing sufficient doublers around
> the opening? And rather than making it hinged, using closely spaced
> nutplates to attach the access?
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> Be careful. I would expect the exterior skins in that area to be
>> considered part of the stressed monocoque. Might be better to have
>> access panel as part of the rear baggage compartment panel, as many
>> Cessnas do.
>>
>> On 11/7/06, Deems Davis wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Something I was reminded recently of was the issue of serviceability.
>>> There is a lot of space behind the baggage bulkhead, and potentially
>>> room for things like Oxygen, air Conditioning, AHRS, Strobe power
>>> supply, ELT, Elevator servo, Batteries, contactors, etc. etc. With the
>>> tailcone disconnected, and with the top fuse skin at the rear of the
>>> cabin off, it's easy to get to these areas, but how will that be
>>> accomplished when everything is riveted/bolted up, just a thought to
>>> throw into the mix, its caused me to think seriously about adding a
>>> hinged access door/panel that would be located behind the baggage
>>> bulkhead top skin and forward of the tailcone top skin.
>>>
>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Jessen wrote:
>>>
>>> > So, is there a reason to locate where Russ has done, or to locate
>>> > behind the F-1007, further away from the battery? I'm trying to keep
>>> > the area above the battery free for a future hat shelf, but don't want
>>> > to place things too far aft if there is a reason one should keep the
>>> > AHRS and magnetometer closer to, say, the mid of the plane. If either
>>> > is back further into the tailcone, could that mess up their readings?
>>> >
>>> > John Jessen
>>> > 40328 (closing the tailcone as soon as I locate the shelf for the
>>> > AHRS/magnetometer)
>>> >
>>> >
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>> > *Russell Daves
>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:55 AM
>>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
>>> > TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>>> >
>>> > I installed my most forward cross member as close to the F-1006 as
>>> > possible, and just behind the bolts joining the F-1046 and F-1032
>>> > Longerons together, almost directly above the battery. I have had
>>> > no problems with interference, except where I failed to use brass
>>> > bolts and washers to install the magnameter onto the shelf.
>>> >
>>> > Since the duel AHRS and magnameters are all on a shelf next to
>>> > each other in the center of the fuselage the left and right seat
>>> > belt cables just cross above the cross members and are no
>>> > problem. If you were to install the AHRS or magnameter next to
>>> > the fuselage side wall they could cause interference.
>>> >
>>> > Best regards,
>>> >
>>> > Russ Daves
>>> > N710RV flying
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >*
>>> >
>>> >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>>> >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>> >
>>> >*
>>> >
>>> > -- No virus found in this Edition. Release Date: 11/6/2006
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>
"http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com
"http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Navig
ator?RV10-List
--
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing |
up the top of the Tailcone
John,
I don't mean to nit pick after the fact, but the reason I used
screws was so the hole through the longerons wouldn't have to be
any larger than necessary, hence weaker. I think mine are #8
screws. Not necessarily a big deal, but large holes through
a longeron would be something I'd run by vans. Just posting
here so future builders might benefit from the advice too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
> Update:
>
> Last night I put in two pieces of angle running across from one side to
> the other between the F-1007 and the F-1008 in the tailcone (see
> picture). It took a couple of hours to figure out where I wanted it,
> cut some angle that was extra, get it to the right shape, drill the
> holes and so on. It took another couple hours thinking about it,
> talking about it, etc. All for 2 angles that may, just may be used to
> hold a magnetometer or some such thing. I can't imagine what some of
> the more complex mods are costing folks in terms of build time!
>
> However, do this before putting on the top skin of the tailcone, should
> you even remotely consider hanging an AHRS or some other electronic
> marvel back there. Worth doing. I'm also going to put in extra wires
> for the rudder trim, for the camera in the VS fairing, and for the two
> lights in the HS that I turn on when on long final to light up my tail
> art.
>
> Finally, at someone's suggestion posted on this list, I downloaded the
> MS PowerToy to resize pictures. I use Irfanview to make the photo
> albums for my website, but for quick and easy, my goodness, get the
> resize powertoy. Well worth the couple minutes to download and
> install. Just right click any photo you're viewing and select the size
> and you're done. One of the better tools.
>
> John Jessen
> #40328 (Hey, Bruce, thanks for the jigs. Just noticed them last night)
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* John Jessen [mailto:jjessen@rcn.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:48 AM
> *To:* 'rv10-list@matronics.com'
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
> Well, one thing for sure, it all depends on which glass unit you
> decide on. Rob's 3500 has the AHRS in the unit. The Chelton's have
> both remote, with some placing the magnetometer in the wing, the
> AHRS in various locations. Etc Etc. I'm not quite settled on the
> panel, and not quite settled on air conditioning, or a hat shelf, so
> will place a "shelf" aft of the F-1007, just in case, to hold
> whatever, or nothing. I almost agree to wait for the top skinning,
> but then you have a major component not done. Others have closed it
> up, made their decisions, crawled around in amazing contorted
> positions to install, and are doing nicely flying from coast to
> coast. So.... I'll compromise and move on. I've been on this
> tailcone for an eternity and would like to get off of it.
>
> John Jessen
> #40328
>
> do not archive
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Bill DeRouchey
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:46 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
> My recommendation is to not button down the top three tail skins
> until everything else is completed on the entire aircraft. You
> can start and even perform slow taxi tests with these skins
> off. If you are going to install a remote magnetometer or AHRS
> you can swing the compass and relocate the unit as needed. Keep
> all clecos away from the AHRS as they are iron based.
>
> I have constructed a simple shelf aftmost between the main
> fuselage longeron and the elevator trim servo mechanism. My
> first AHRS in installed in that location was affected by the
> trim servo motor (not running). I scrapped this AHRS for other
> reasons and now tasked to locate the Cross-bow properly.
>
> You can not locate the AHRS just behind the baggage bulkhead no
> matter how high it is installed above the floor. Variable
> magnetic fields from the baggage will affect your heading
> information in uncontrollable ways.
>
> The Cross-bow has a good hard iron calibration routine so my
> next approach will be to locate it far aft and calibrate the
> magnetic interferrence from the trim servo motor out of the
> heading. With this approach there is only one source of
> interferrence.
>
> My suggestion is to delay installation of the three top skins to
> the very end. I will report back after I am satisfied with my
> AHRS installation.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
> N939SB, flying with a few pit stops
>
>
>
> */Chris <toaster73@earthlink.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> I'd consider the ability to keep it water tight as well.
> One other way of thinking about these considerations is just
> to not bother
> planning ahead. Just finish the airframe and then install
> the various
> pieces of gear. then you will be sure that it can be
> serviced later and you
> will have figured out the best way to contort yourself to
> get at it for the
> future maintenance.
> -Chris Lucas
> #40072 (cabin side skins)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deems Davis"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore
> closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
>
> >
> > Good point Kelly !, thanks for keeping this Dreamer
> grounded in a safer
> > reality. Could it be accomplished by installing
> sufficient doublers around
> > the opening? And rather than making it hinged, using
> closely spaced
> > nutplates to attach the access?
> >
> > Deems Davis # 406
> > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> > http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Be careful. I would expect the exterior skins in that
> area to be
> >> considered part of the stressed monocoque. Might be
> better to have
> >> access panel as part of the rear baggage compartment
> panel, as many
> >> Cessnas do.
> >>
> >> On 11/7/06, Deems Davis wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Something I was reminded recently of was the issue of
> serviceability.
> >>> There is a lot of space behind the baggage bulkhead,
> and potentially
> >>> room for things like Oxygen, air Conditioning, AHRS,
> Strobe power
> >>> supply, ELT, Elevator servo, Batteries, contactors,
> etc. etc. With the
> >>> tailcone disconnected, and with the top fuse skin at
> the rear of the
> >>> cabin off, it's easy to get to these areas, but how
> will that be
> >>> accomplished when everything is riveted/bolted up, just
> a thought to
> >>> throw into the mix, its caused me to think seriously
> about adding a
> >>> hinged access door/panel that would be located behind
> the baggage
> >>> bulkhead top skin and forward of the tailcone top skin.
> >>>
> >>> Deems Davis # 406
> >>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> >>> http://deemsrv10.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> John Jessen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > So, is there a reason to locate where Russ has done,
> or to locate
> >>> > behind the F-1007, further away from the battery? I'm
> trying to keep
> >>> > the area above the battery free for a future hat
> shelf, but don't want
> >>> > to place things too far aft if there is a reason one
> should keep the
> >>> > AHRS and magnetometer closer to, say, the mid of the
> plane. If either
> >>> > is back further into the tailcone, could that mess up
> their readings?
> >>> >
> >>> > John Jessen
> >>> > 40328 (closing the tailcone as soon as I locate the
> shelf for the
> >>> > AHRS/magnetometer)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On
> Behalf Of
> >>> > *Russell Daves
> >>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:55 AM
> >>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top
> of the
> >>> > TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
> >>> >
> >>> > I installed my most forward cross member as close to
> the F-1006 as
> >>> > possible, and just behind the bolts joining the
> F-1046 and F-1032
> >>> > Longerons together, almost directly above the
> battery. I have had
> >>> > no problems with interference, except where I failed
> to use brass
> >>> > bolts and washers to install the magnameter onto the
> shelf.
> >>> >
> >>> > Since the duel AHRS and magnameters are all on a
> shelf next to
> >>> > each other in the center of the fuselage the left and
> right seat
> >>> > belt cables just cross above the cross members and are no
> >>> > problem. If you were to install the AHRS or
> magnameter next to
> >>> > the fuselage side wall they could cause interference.
> >>> >
> >>> > Best regards,
> >>> >
> >>> > Russ Daves
> >>> > N710RV flying
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >*
> >>> >
> >>> >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> >>> >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> >>> >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> >>> >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> >>>
> >href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >*
> >>> >
> >>> > -- No virus found in this Edition. Release Date:
> 11/6/2006
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Checked 268.14.0/524 - Release Date: 11/8/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by Release Date: 11/8/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> 11/10/2006
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing |
up the top of the Tailcone
It's always good to nit pick. I did think about that, and figured that the
longerons going across might actually be of some stiffening benefit if the
plane wants to hit something solid and those seat belts decide to buckle the
longerons, which they probably would do. The holes, of course, being firmly
filled with the bolts. I may be wrong, and thus my entire tailcone is
ruined and unsafe. Oh, well.
If I were to do it again, I would use something smaller, even simply pop
rivet a lighter angle. I had longeron material left over and went ahead
with trying to beef up the structure.
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
John,
I don't mean to nit pick after the fact, but the reason I used screws was so
the hole through the longerons wouldn't have to be any larger than
necessary, hence weaker. I think mine are #8 screws. Not necessarily a big
deal, but large holes through a longeron would be something I'd run by vans.
Just posting here so future builders might benefit from the advice too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
> Update:
>
> Last night I put in two pieces of angle running across from one side
> to the other between the F-1007 and the F-1008 in the tailcone (see
> picture). It took a couple of hours to figure out where I wanted it,
> cut some angle that was extra, get it to the right shape, drill the
> holes and so on. It took another couple hours thinking about it,
> talking about it, etc. All for 2 angles that may, just may be used to
> hold a magnetometer or some such thing. I can't imagine what some of
> the more complex mods are costing folks in terms of build time!
>
> However, do this before putting on the top skin of the tailcone,
> should you even remotely consider hanging an AHRS or some other
> electronic marvel back there. Worth doing. I'm also going to put in
> extra wires for the rudder trim, for the camera in the VS fairing, and
> for the two lights in the HS that I turn on when on long final to
> light up my tail art.
>
> Finally, at someone's suggestion posted on this list, I downloaded the
> MS PowerToy to resize pictures. I use Irfanview to make the photo
> albums for my website, but for quick and easy, my goodness, get the
> resize powertoy. Well worth the couple minutes to download and
> install. Just right click any photo you're viewing and select the
> size and you're done. One of the better tools.
>
> John Jessen
> #40328 (Hey, Bruce, thanks for the jigs. Just noticed them last
> night)
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* John Jessen [mailto:jjessen@rcn.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:48 AM
> *To:* 'rv10-list@matronics.com'
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
> Well, one thing for sure, it all depends on which glass unit you
> decide on. Rob's 3500 has the AHRS in the unit. The Chelton's have
> both remote, with some placing the magnetometer in the wing, the
> AHRS in various locations. Etc Etc. I'm not quite settled on the
> panel, and not quite settled on air conditioning, or a hat shelf, so
> will place a "shelf" aft of the F-1007, just in case, to hold
> whatever, or nothing. I almost agree to wait for the top skinning,
> but then you have a major component not done. Others have closed it
> up, made their decisions, crawled around in amazing contorted
> positions to install, and are doing nicely flying from coast to
> coast. So.... I'll compromise and move on. I've been on this
> tailcone for an eternity and would like to get off of it.
>
> John Jessen
> #40328
>
> do not archive
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Bill DeRouchey
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:46 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
> My recommendation is to not button down the top three tail skins
> until everything else is completed on the entire aircraft. You
> can start and even perform slow taxi tests with these skins
> off. If you are going to install a remote magnetometer or AHRS
> you can swing the compass and relocate the unit as needed. Keep
> all clecos away from the AHRS as they are iron based.
>
> I have constructed a simple shelf aftmost between the main
> fuselage longeron and the elevator trim servo mechanism. My
> first AHRS in installed in that location was affected by the
> trim servo motor (not running). I scrapped this AHRS for other
> reasons and now tasked to locate the Cross-bow properly.
>
> You can not locate the AHRS just behind the baggage bulkhead no
> matter how high it is installed above the floor. Variable
> magnetic fields from the baggage will affect your heading
> information in uncontrollable ways.
>
> The Cross-bow has a good hard iron calibration routine so my
> next approach will be to locate it far aft and calibrate the
> magnetic interferrence from the trim servo motor out of the
> heading. With this approach there is only one source of
> interferrence.
>
> My suggestion is to delay installation of the three top skins to
> the very end. I will report back after I am satisfied with my
> AHRS installation.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
> N939SB, flying with a few pit stops
>
>
>
> */Chris <toaster73@earthlink.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> I'd consider the ability to keep it water tight as well.
> One other way of thinking about these considerations is just
> to not bother
> planning ahead. Just finish the airframe and then install
> the various
> pieces of gear. then you will be sure that it can be
> serviced later and you
> will have figured out the best way to contort yourself to
> get at it for the
> future maintenance.
> -Chris Lucas
> #40072 (cabin side skins)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deems Davis"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore
> closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
>
> >
> > Good point Kelly !, thanks for keeping this Dreamer
> grounded in a safer
> > reality. Could it be accomplished by installing
> sufficient doublers around
> > the opening? And rather than making it hinged, using
> closely spaced
> > nutplates to attach the access?
> >
> > Deems Davis # 406
> > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> > http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Be careful. I would expect the exterior skins in that
> area to be
> >> considered part of the stressed monocoque. Might be
> better to have
> >> access panel as part of the rear baggage compartment
> panel, as many
> >> Cessnas do.
> >>
> >> On 11/7/06, Deems Davis wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Something I was reminded recently of was the issue of
> serviceability.
> >>> There is a lot of space behind the baggage bulkhead,
> and potentially
> >>> room for things like Oxygen, air Conditioning, AHRS,
> Strobe power
> >>> supply, ELT, Elevator servo, Batteries, contactors,
> etc. etc. With the
> >>> tailcone disconnected, and with the top fuse skin at
> the rear of the
> >>> cabin off, it's easy to get to these areas, but how
> will that be
> >>> accomplished when everything is riveted/bolted up, just
> a thought to
> >>> throw into the mix, its caused me to think seriously
> about adding a
> >>> hinged access door/panel that would be located behind
> the baggage
> >>> bulkhead top skin and forward of the tailcone top skin.
> >>>
> >>> Deems Davis # 406
> >>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> >>> http://deemsrv10.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> John Jessen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > So, is there a reason to locate where Russ has done,
> or to locate
> >>> > behind the F-1007, further away from the battery? I'm
> trying to keep
> >>> > the area above the battery free for a future hat
> shelf, but don't want
> >>> > to place things too far aft if there is a reason one
> should keep the
> >>> > AHRS and magnetometer closer to, say, the mid of the
> plane. If either
> >>> > is back further into the tailcone, could that mess up
> their readings?
> >>> >
> >>> > John Jessen
> >>> > 40328 (closing the tailcone as soon as I locate the
> shelf for the
> >>> > AHRS/magnetometer)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On
> Behalf Of
> >>> > *Russell Daves
> >>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:55 AM
> >>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top
> of the
> >>> > TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
> >>> >
> >>> > I installed my most forward cross member as close to
> the F-1006 as
> >>> > possible, and just behind the bolts joining the
> F-1046 and F-1032
> >>> > Longerons together, almost directly above the
> battery. I have had
> >>> > no problems with interference, except where I failed
> to use brass
> >>> > bolts and washers to install the magnameter onto the
> shelf.
> >>> >
> >>> > Since the duel AHRS and magnameters are all on a
> shelf next to
> >>> > each other in the center of the fuselage the left and
> right seat
> >>> > belt cables just cross above the cross members and are
no
> >>> > problem. If you were to install the AHRS or
> magnameter next to
> >>> > the fuselage side wall they could cause interference.
> >>> >
> >>> > Best regards,
> >>> >
> >>> > Russ Daves
> >>> > N710RV flying
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >*
> >>> >
> >>> >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> >>>
>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> >>> >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> >>>
>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> >>>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >*
> >>> >
> >>> > -- No virus found in this Edition. Release Date:
> 11/6/2006
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
> cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Checked 268.14.0/524 - Release Date: 11/8/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by Release Date: 11/8/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> 11/10/2006
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
--
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Testing the waters |
I have a Slow Build wing kit that has not been touched, other than the parts
inventoried. I may have to go quick build because of a decrease in the time
I have available to build. I'm wondering if someone would want to buy said
wing kit if it were available for 2005 pricing and free shipping.
John Jessen
Do not archive and reply off line, thanks.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
John,
I don't mean to nit pick after the fact, but the reason I used screws was so
the hole through the longerons wouldn't have to be any larger than
necessary, hence weaker. I think mine are #8 screws. Not necessarily a big
deal, but large holes through a longeron would be something I'd run by vans.
Just posting here so future builders might benefit from the advice too.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
> Update:
>
> Last night I put in two pieces of angle running across from one side
> to the other between the F-1007 and the F-1008 in the tailcone (see
> picture). It took a couple of hours to figure out where I wanted it,
> cut some angle that was extra, get it to the right shape, drill the
> holes and so on. It took another couple hours thinking about it,
> talking about it, etc. All for 2 angles that may, just may be used to
> hold a magnetometer or some such thing. I can't imagine what some of
> the more complex mods are costing folks in terms of build time!
>
> However, do this before putting on the top skin of the tailcone,
> should you even remotely consider hanging an AHRS or some other
> electronic marvel back there. Worth doing. I'm also going to put in
> extra wires for the rudder trim, for the camera in the VS fairing, and
> for the two lights in the HS that I turn on when on long final to
> light up my tail art.
>
> Finally, at someone's suggestion posted on this list, I downloaded the
> MS PowerToy to resize pictures. I use Irfanview to make the photo
> albums for my website, but for quick and easy, my goodness, get the
> resize powertoy. Well worth the couple minutes to download and
> install. Just right click any photo you're viewing and select the
> size and you're done. One of the better tools.
>
> John Jessen
> #40328 (Hey, Bruce, thanks for the jigs. Just noticed them last
> night)
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* John Jessen [mailto:jjessen@rcn.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:48 AM
> *To:* 'rv10-list@matronics.com'
> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
> Well, one thing for sure, it all depends on which glass unit you
> decide on. Rob's 3500 has the AHRS in the unit. The Chelton's have
> both remote, with some placing the magnetometer in the wing, the
> AHRS in various locations. Etc Etc. I'm not quite settled on the
> panel, and not quite settled on air conditioning, or a hat shelf, so
> will place a "shelf" aft of the F-1007, just in case, to hold
> whatever, or nothing. I almost agree to wait for the top skinning,
> but then you have a major component not done. Others have closed it
> up, made their decisions, crawled around in amazing contorted
> positions to install, and are doing nicely flying from coast to
> coast. So.... I'll compromise and move on. I've been on this
> tailcone for an eternity and would like to get off of it.
>
> John Jessen
> #40328
>
> do not archive
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Bill DeRouchey
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:46 AM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
> My recommendation is to not button down the top three tail skins
> until everything else is completed on the entire aircraft. You
> can start and even perform slow taxi tests with these skins
> off. If you are going to install a remote magnetometer or AHRS
> you can swing the compass and relocate the unit as needed. Keep
> all clecos away from the AHRS as they are iron based.
>
> I have constructed a simple shelf aftmost between the main
> fuselage longeron and the elevator trim servo mechanism. My
> first AHRS in installed in that location was affected by the
> trim servo motor (not running). I scrapped this AHRS for other
> reasons and now tasked to locate the Cross-bow properly.
>
> You can not locate the AHRS just behind the baggage bulkhead no
> matter how high it is installed above the floor. Variable
> magnetic fields from the baggage will affect your heading
> information in uncontrollable ways.
>
> The Cross-bow has a good hard iron calibration routine so my
> next approach will be to locate it far aft and calibrate the
> magnetic interferrence from the trim servo motor out of the
> heading. With this approach there is only one source of
> interferrence.
>
> My suggestion is to delay installation of the three top skins to
> the very end. I will report back after I am satisfied with my
> AHRS installation.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
> N939SB, flying with a few pit stops
>
>
>
> */Chris <toaster73@earthlink.net>/* wrote:
>
>
> I'd consider the ability to keep it water tight as well.
> One other way of thinking about these considerations is just
> to not bother
> planning ahead. Just finish the airframe and then install
> the various
> pieces of gear. then you will be sure that it can be
> serviced later and you
> will have figured out the best way to contort yourself to
> get at it for the
> future maintenance.
> -Chris Lucas
> #40072 (cabin side skins)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Deems Davis"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
> TailconeBefore
> closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
>
> >
> > Good point Kelly !, thanks for keeping this Dreamer
> grounded in a safer
> > reality. Could it be accomplished by installing
> sufficient doublers around
> > the opening? And rather than making it hinged, using
> closely spaced
> > nutplates to attach the access?
> >
> > Deems Davis # 406
> > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> > http://deemsrv10.com/
> >
> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Be careful. I would expect the exterior skins in that
> area to be
> >> considered part of the stressed monocoque. Might be
> better to have
> >> access panel as part of the rear baggage compartment
> panel, as many
> >> Cessnas do.
> >>
> >> On 11/7/06, Deems Davis wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Something I was reminded recently of was the issue of
> serviceability.
> >>> There is a lot of space behind the baggage bulkhead,
> and potentially
> >>> room for things like Oxygen, air Conditioning, AHRS,
> Strobe power
> >>> supply, ELT, Elevator servo, Batteries, contactors,
> etc. etc. With the
> >>> tailcone disconnected, and with the top fuse skin at
> the rear of the
> >>> cabin off, it's easy to get to these areas, but how
> will that be
> >>> accomplished when everything is riveted/bolted up, just
> a thought to
> >>> throw into the mix, its caused me to think seriously
> about adding a
> >>> hinged access door/panel that would be located behind
> the baggage
> >>> bulkhead top skin and forward of the tailcone top skin.
> >>>
> >>> Deems Davis # 406
> >>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> >>> http://deemsrv10.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> John Jessen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > So, is there a reason to locate where Russ has done,
> or to locate
> >>> > behind the F-1007, further away from the battery? I'm
> trying to keep
> >>> > the area above the battery free for a future hat
> shelf, but don't want
> >>> > to place things too far aft if there is a reason one
> should keep the
> >>> > AHRS and magnetometer closer to, say, the mid of the
> plane. If either
> >>> > is back further into the tailcone, could that mess up
> their readings?
> >>> >
> >>> > John Jessen
> >>> > 40328 (closing the tailcone as soon as I locate the
> shelf for the
> >>> > AHRS/magnetometer)
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> >>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On
> Behalf Of
> >>> > *Russell Daves
> >>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:55 AM
> >>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> >>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top
> of the
> >>> > TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
> >>> >
> >>> > I installed my most forward cross member as close to
> the F-1006 as
> >>> > possible, and just behind the bolts joining the
> F-1046 and F-1032
> >>> > Longerons together, almost directly above the
> battery. I have had
> >>> > no problems with interference, except where I failed
> to use brass
> >>> > bolts and washers to install the magnameter onto the
> shelf.
> >>> >
> >>> > Since the duel AHRS and magnameters are all on a
> shelf next to
> >>> > each other in the center of the fuselage the left and
> right seat
> >>> > belt cables just cross above the cross members and are
no
> >>> > problem. If you were to install the AHRS or
> magnameter next to
> >>> > the fuselage side wall they could cause interference.
> >>> >
> >>> > Best regards,
> >>> >
> >>> > Russ Daves
> >>> > N710RV flying
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >*
> >>> >
> >>> >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> >>>
>href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> >>> >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> >>>
>href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> >>>
>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >*
> >>> >
> >>> > -- No virus found in this Edition. Release Date:
> 11/6/2006
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
> cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
>
> --
> Checked 268.14.0/524 - Release Date: 11/8/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by Release Date: 11/8/2006
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> 11/10/2006
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
--
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Message 11
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| Subject: | AOPA engine vendor thoughts |
This year there is an advantage to living in Southern California, that
being that AOPA held the convention 1.5 hours drive away. So I took the
drive up yesterday and took in all the sites. There were a lot of
anxious companies ready to sell me their latest creations, some were
really nice when I explained I had an "experimental RV-10 aircraft"
(well we all know I don't, but I sure as heck wasn't going to go into
details). Most, if not all of them, knew exactly what the plane was,
which means there is a presence in the market, others were kind to
explain their avionics cost as much as the completed RV-10 and yet 1 was
short of completely brushing me off as "we don't have the time to spend
selling to indivduals, have Van's contact us to work something out".
Overall I had an enjoyable experience, this certainly isn't a Oshkosh
but for me the distance made it well worth the effort. I spoke with Gus
from Van's and he was great in taking all the time I needed to discuss
the RV-10, I never led on that I knew he provided the Tech support nor
that I had a clue about the RV-10. He kindly discussed the engineering
of the wing and the idea of adding winglets (like the Lancairs Columbias
have and the new option for the Husky') that adds 5mph in cruise and
that it would add little to no benefit on the RV-10 shaped wings, which
are different that the latter two. He also gave me his thoughts on the
idea of sticking with a Lycoming 540 versus a Continental (higher weight
and more GPH) and other "experimental engines". With that I went out and
saw the vendors and tried to ascertain more knowledge for future
planning.
Lycoming Thunderbolt- I met up with Jon Delamarter and he gave me the
latest on the Thunderbolt engines and the advancements they are making
with a FADEC type concept as well as 10:1 pistons and a cold fusion
system, I could tell he was really excited about the future technology
that Thunderbolt is coming out with in the next year and the competitive
pricing. I left pretty excited myself seeing where they have gotten
since starting up and what is yet to come from them.
SMA- I'll try to be nice here but I was totally disappointed with them.
I figured they had a good case for less GPH higher TBO of 3K hrs,
integrated engine monitoring and using diesel but the sales guy attitude
mysteriusly diminished when I told them I wanted it for an experimental,
he simply didn't see my as a potential customer, to the people around me
they handed out brochures and went through it with them, with me there
was nothing, no brochure no "need" to review and the advice to get
everyone to tell Van's that they need to contact SMA so builders can use
the engines but until Van's does (which I understand they have no
interest in anything other than what Gus mentioned, the Lycoming) SMA
has no interest in working with the builders- to hell with them I
thought and moved on to better solutions.
Superior XP400- Interesting is what I thought. They have the XP400SRE
that can put out 250hp, it was tested in the Lancair @ the Reno races
and seemed like an option, I found it interesting, maybe because there
is only the one engine out there but the sales guy, although very nice,
really didn't know much about the engine.. how much does.will it cost?,
what is the GPH? what is the TBO? can I build this engine like the
XP-360?, etc.. his response "I'll look that up in my binder... hmm
nothing there.. sorry, shame on me but I don't have the answer" is what
I got for each question.
I saw numerous avionics in action, Op Tech, Dynon, Garmin, Chelton and
they all have great features and nice looking displays, although Optech
had the best support crew (in regards to explaining all the features and
admitting future fixes for gaps, Chelton seemed to address those gaps
headon with "current fix in new release" for people like Tim, I
overheard there is a new code released for the Chelton that is far
superior to the previous version, or so the sales person was telling a
potential customer, it is either still beta or just released but worth
looking into.
Based on the convention I am sold on the Van's support from Gus, he took
his time, never felt rushed and the answers were honest, well researched
and to the point. Engine wise, I am even more sold on the Thunderbolt, a
new engine with custom options and a rep that knew his engine, pricing,
current developments and anxious to work with the RV-10 builders to get
us the right engine for our plane.. the other vendors just didn't seem
to even come close to this.
Overall, a great experience!
Pascal
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing |
up the top of the Tailcone
I wish I had pictures but....I did mine a little different. It is
further
back, the flat part of the angles (vertical) are the opposite and I put
the
angles on top of the longeron. I also put nutplates on the angles so
that
the shelf is removable using a screw driver from underneath.
I will try to take some pictures this weekend. My plan is to wait until
I
ready to mount the items on the shelf, determine the layout and then to
cut
out portions of the shelf that are not needed. That will make the shelf
lighter.
Rene'
801-721-6080
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:59 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
Update:
Last night I put in two pieces of angle running across from one side to
the
other between the F-1007 and the F-1008 in the tailcone (see picture).
It
took a couple of hours to figure out where I wanted it, cut some angle
that
was extra, get it to the right shape, drill the holes and so on. It
took
another couple hours thinking about it, talking about it, etc. All for
2
angles that may, just may be used to hold a magnetometer or some such
thing.
I can't imagine what some of the more complex mods are costing folks in
terms of build time!
However, do this before putting on the top skin of the tailcone, should
you
even remotely consider hanging an AHRS or some other electronic marvel
back
there. Worth doing. I'm also going to put in extra wires for the
rudder
trim, for the camera in the VS fairing, and for the two lights in the HS
that I turn on when on long final to light up my tail art.
Finally, at someone's suggestion posted on this list, I downloaded the
MS
PowerToy to resize pictures. I use Irfanview to make the photo albums
for
my website, but for quick and easy, my goodness, get the resize
powertoy.
Well worth the couple minutes to download and install. Just right click
any
photo you're viewing and select the size and you're done. One of the
better
tools.
John Jessen
#40328 (Hey, Bruce, thanks for the jigs. Just noticed them last
night)
_____
From: John Jessen [mailto:jjessen@rcn.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
Well, one thing for sure, it all depends on which glass unit you decide
on.
Rob's 3500 has the AHRS in the unit. The Chelton's have both remote,
with
some placing the magnetometer in the wing, the AHRS in various
locations.
Etc Etc. I'm not quite settled on the panel, and not quite settled on
air
conditioning, or a hat shelf, so will place a "shelf" aft of the F-1007,
just in case, to hold whatever, or nothing. I almost agree to wait for
the
top skinning, but then you have a major component not done. Others have
closed it up, made their decisions, crawled around in amazing contorted
positions to install, and are doing nicely flying from coast to coast.
So.... I'll compromise and move on. I've been on this tailcone for an
eternity and would like to get off of it.
John Jessen
#40328
do not archive
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill
DeRouchey
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
My recommendation is to not button down the top three tail skins until
everything else is completed on the entire aircraft. You can start and
even
perform slow taxi tests with these skins off. If you are going to
install a
remote magnetometer or AHRS you can swing the compass and relocate the
unit
as needed. Keep all clecos away from the AHRS as they are iron based.
I have constructed a simple shelf aftmost between the main fuselage
longeron
and the elevator trim servo mechanism. My first AHRS in installed in
that
location was affected by the trim servo motor (not running). I scrapped
this
AHRS for other reasons and now tasked to locate the Cross-bow properly.
You can not locate the AHRS just behind the baggage bulkhead no matter
how
high it is installed above the floor. Variable magnetic fields from the
baggage will affect your heading information in uncontrollable ways.
The Cross-bow has a good hard iron calibration routine so my next
approach
will be to locate it far aft and calibrate the magnetic interferrence
from
the trim servo motor out of the heading. With this approach there is
only
one source of interferrence.
My suggestion is to delay installation of the three top skins to the
very
end. I will report back after I am satisfied with my AHRS installation.
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
N939SB, flying with a few pit stops
Chris <toaster73@earthlink.net> wrote:
I'd consider the ability to keep it water tight as well.
One other way of thinking about these considerations is just to not
bother
planning ahead. Just finish the airframe and then install the various
pieces of gear. then you will be sure that it can be serviced later and
you
will have figured out the best way to contort yourself to get at it for
the
future maintenance.
-Chris Lucas
#40072 (cabin side skins)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis"
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
> Good point Kelly !, thanks for keeping this Dreamer grounded in a
safer
> reality. Could it be accomplished by installing sufficient doublers
around
> the opening? And rather than making it hinged, using closely spaced
> nutplates to attach the access?
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>>
>> Be careful. I would expect the exterior skins in that area to be
>> considered part of the stressed monocoque. Might be better to have
>> access panel as part of the rear baggage compartment panel, as many
>> Cessnas do.
>>
>> On 11/7/06, Deems Davis wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Something I was reminded recently of was the issue of
serviceability.
>>> There is a lot of space behind the baggage bulkhead, and potentially
>>> room for things like Oxygen, air Conditioning, AHRS, Strobe power
>>> supply, ELT, Elevator servo, Batteries, contactors, etc. etc. With
the
>>> tailcone disconnected, and with the top fuse skin at the rear of the
>>> cabin off, it's easy to get to these areas, but how will that be
>>> accomplished when everything is riveted/bolted up, just a thought to
>>> throw into the mix, its caused me to think seriously about adding a
>>> hinged access door/panel that would be located behind the baggage
>>> bulkhead top skin and forward of the tailcone top skin.
>>>
>>> Deems Davis # 406
>>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John Jessen wrote:
>>>
>>> > So, is there a reason to locate where Russ has done, or to locate
>>> > behind the F-1007, further away from the battery? I'm trying to
keep
>>> > the area above the battery free for a future hat shelf, but don't
want
>>> > to place things too far aft if there is a reason one should keep
the
>>> > AHRS and magnetometer closer to, say, the mid of the plane. If
either
>>> > is back further into the tailcone, could that mess up their
readings?
>>> >
>>> > John Jessen
>>> > 40328 (closing the tailcone as soon as I locate the shelf for the
>>> > AHRS/magnetometer)
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>>> > *Russell Daves
>>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:55 AM
>>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
>>> > TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>>> >
>>> > I installed my most forward cross member as close to the F-1006 as
>>> > possible, and just behind the bolts joining the F-1046 and F-1032
>>> > Longerons together, almost directly above the battery. I have had
>>> > no problems with interference, except where I failed to use brass
>>> > bolts and washers to install the magnameter onto the shelf.
>>> >
>>> > Since the duel AHRS and magnameters are all on a shelf next to
>>> > each other in the center of the fuselage the left and right seat
>>> > belt cables just cross above the cross members and are no
>>> > problem. If you were to install the AHRS or magnameter next to
>>> > the fuselage side wall they could cause interference.
>>> >
>>> > Best regards,
>>> >
>>> > Russ Daves
>>> > N710RV flying
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >*
>>> >
>>> >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>>> >href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>>> >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>>> >href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>>
>href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
cs.co
m/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>> >
>>> >*
>>> >
>>> > -- No virus found in this Edition. Release Date: 11/6/2006
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronic
s.com
/Navigator?RV10-List
--
Checked 268.14.0/524 - Release Date: 11/8/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by Release Date: 11/8/2006
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
11/10/2006
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Engine trouble shoots-High #2 & #4 EGTs -Update |
I ran my engine yesterday continuing to troubleshoot the high EGTs
(~1500deg) on #2 & #4. I'm starting to think my spider is not performing
consistently. Below is the summary.
Swapped EGT probes. Problem did not follow the probes - sensors appear
ok.
CHT's consistently around 40deg higher for these cylinders.
Noted exhaust discoloration on 2 & 4. No doubt these were running
hotter than the rest.
Swapped #1 and #4 injectors. #1 EGT (which now has #4 injector) was
normal, leading me to believe #4 injector was fine. #4 EGT (which now
has #1 injector) is still hot.
Checked Slicks timing. All ok.
In talking to David McNeill on the phone he gave me a few ideas to go
after, which I did today:
Fuel flow tested using 6 baby food jars in five "runs". Boost pump
turned on for about 20 seconds. Indicated (EIS6000) fuel pressure
around 23psi, fuel flow around 3.7gal/hr for all runs.
Run 1: with injectors attached to their 1/8" lines. #2 &4 jars showed
about 40% down in volume compared to the rest. See pictures. The jars
a placed as you would see the cylinders from inside the aircraft.
Run 2: without injectors. #4 jar now showed similar amount as the good
cylinders (indicating #4 injector was partially clogged). However,
none went in jar #2. Scratching my head on this one.
Run 3: without injectors. Cleaned #2&4 injectors again. Same results as
Run 2.
Run 4: with injectors. Same results as Run 1. Really scratching my
head. Why does fuel goes in jar #2 only when its injector is attached?
Run 5: with injectors. Cleaned #2 & 4 lines from the spider to the
injectors using 0.25 safety wire, brake cleaner, then compressed air.
Results are the same as Run 4 - #2 & 4 are down by 40% compared to the
rest.
Not sure if you can see in the pictures but jar #5 has slightly less
(maybe 5%) fuel than the others consistently.
Anh
#141
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| Subject: | Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore closing |
up the top of the Tailcone
John,
I don't think you have to worry about wrecking the tailcone. I just
would suggest that since there are larger holes there, you may want
to take an additional step and double up that longeron. The longeron
gets joined from tail to fuselage with a set of bolts, so it can't
be a huge problem. What I would do, is just match drill a section
of the same type of angle, and lay it on top of that longeron, but
pass the shelf bolts all the way through both pieces. It would
form a sideways T. You could make the piece about 6" longer than
the shelf width, and then put screws or bolts on about 3" spacing
down the length of it. (adjusting the spacing so it looks nice with
the 2 shelf bolts) That should double up nicely on the longeron I'd
think, and it would be probably stronger than original at that point.
You may still want to run it by Van's to see if they like that idea,
but that would be my suggestion, and I myself wouldn't feel
uncomfortable with that. I'm sure you didn't ruin the tailcone.
Didn't mean to sound in any negative tone. Just wanted to make sure
that before other people drill large holes, they think of the various
options to keep structural strength.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Jessen wrote:
>
> It's always good to nit pick. I did think about that, and figured that the
> longerons going across might actually be of some stiffening benefit if the
> plane wants to hit something solid and those seat belts decide to buckle the
> longerons, which they probably would do. The holes, of course, being firmly
> filled with the bolts. I may be wrong, and thus my entire tailcone is
> ruined and unsafe. Oh, well.
>
> If I were to do it again, I would use something smaller, even simply pop
> rivet a lighter angle. I had longeron material left over and went ahead
> with trying to beef up the structure.
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 9:42 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Before closing up the top of the TailconeBefore
> closing up the top of the Tailcone
>
>
> John,
>
> I don't mean to nit pick after the fact, but the reason I used screws was so
> the hole through the longerons wouldn't have to be any larger than
> necessary, hence weaker. I think mine are #8 screws. Not necessarily a big
> deal, but large holes through a longeron would be something I'd run by vans.
> Just posting here so future builders might benefit from the advice too.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> John Jessen wrote:
>> Update:
>>
>> Last night I put in two pieces of angle running across from one side
>> to the other between the F-1007 and the F-1008 in the tailcone (see
>> picture). It took a couple of hours to figure out where I wanted it,
>> cut some angle that was extra, get it to the right shape, drill the
>> holes and so on. It took another couple hours thinking about it,
>> talking about it, etc. All for 2 angles that may, just may be used to
>> hold a magnetometer or some such thing. I can't imagine what some of
>> the more complex mods are costing folks in terms of build time!
>>
>> However, do this before putting on the top skin of the tailcone,
>> should you even remotely consider hanging an AHRS or some other
>> electronic marvel back there. Worth doing. I'm also going to put in
>> extra wires for the rudder trim, for the camera in the VS fairing, and
>> for the two lights in the HS that I turn on when on long final to
>> light up my tail art.
>>
>> Finally, at someone's suggestion posted on this list, I downloaded the
>> MS PowerToy to resize pictures. I use Irfanview to make the photo
>> albums for my website, but for quick and easy, my goodness, get the
>> resize powertoy. Well worth the couple minutes to download and
>> install. Just right click any photo you're viewing and select the
>> size and you're done. One of the better tools.
>>
>> John Jessen
>> #40328 (Hey, Bruce, thanks for the jigs. Just noticed them last
>> night)
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* John Jessen [mailto:jjessen@rcn.com]
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:48 AM
>> *To:* 'rv10-list@matronics.com'
>> *Subject:* RE: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
>> TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>>
>> Well, one thing for sure, it all depends on which glass unit you
>> decide on. Rob's 3500 has the AHRS in the unit. The Chelton's have
>> both remote, with some placing the magnetometer in the wing, the
>> AHRS in various locations. Etc Etc. I'm not quite settled on the
>> panel, and not quite settled on air conditioning, or a hat shelf, so
>> will place a "shelf" aft of the F-1007, just in case, to hold
>> whatever, or nothing. I almost agree to wait for the top skinning,
>> but then you have a major component not done. Others have closed it
>> up, made their decisions, crawled around in amazing contorted
>> positions to install, and are doing nicely flying from coast to
>> coast. So.... I'll compromise and move on. I've been on this
>> tailcone for an eternity and would like to get off of it.
>>
>> John Jessen
>> #40328
>>
>> do not archive
>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of
>> *Bill DeRouchey
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:46 AM
>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
>> TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>>
>> My recommendation is to not button down the top three tail skins
>> until everything else is completed on the entire aircraft. You
>> can start and even perform slow taxi tests with these skins
>> off. If you are going to install a remote magnetometer or AHRS
>> you can swing the compass and relocate the unit as needed. Keep
>> all clecos away from the AHRS as they are iron based.
>>
>> I have constructed a simple shelf aftmost between the main
>> fuselage longeron and the elevator trim servo mechanism. My
>> first AHRS in installed in that location was affected by the
>> trim servo motor (not running). I scrapped this AHRS for other
>> reasons and now tasked to locate the Cross-bow properly.
>>
>> You can not locate the AHRS just behind the baggage bulkhead no
>> matter how high it is installed above the floor. Variable
>> magnetic fields from the baggage will affect your heading
>> information in uncontrollable ways.
>>
>> The Cross-bow has a good hard iron calibration routine so my
>> next approach will be to locate it far aft and calibrate the
>> magnetic interferrence from the trim servo motor out of the
>> heading. With this approach there is only one source of
>> interferrence.
>>
>> My suggestion is to delay installation of the three top skins to
>> the very end. I will report back after I am satisfied with my
>> AHRS installation.
>>
>> Bill DeRouchey
>> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
>> N939SB, flying with a few pit stops
>>
>>
>>
>> */Chris <toaster73@earthlink.net>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'd consider the ability to keep it water tight as well.
>> One other way of thinking about these considerations is just
>> to not bother
>> planning ahead. Just finish the airframe and then install
>> the various
>> pieces of gear. then you will be sure that it can be
>> serviced later and you
>> will have figured out the best way to contort yourself to
>> get at it for the
>> future maintenance.
>> -Chris Lucas
>> #40072 (cabin side skins)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Deems Davis"
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 8:22 PM
>> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top of the
>> TailconeBefore
>> closing up the top of the Tailcone
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Good point Kelly !, thanks for keeping this Dreamer
>> grounded in a safer
>> > reality. Could it be accomplished by installing
>> sufficient doublers around
>> > the opening? And rather than making it hinged, using
>> closely spaced
>> > nutplates to attach the access?
>> >
>> > Deems Davis # 406
>> > Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>> > http://deemsrv10.com/
>> >
>> > Kelly McMullen wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Be careful. I would expect the exterior skins in that
>> area to be
>> >> considered part of the stressed monocoque. Might be
>> better to have
>> >> access panel as part of the rear baggage compartment
>> panel, as many
>> >> Cessnas do.
>> >>
>> >> On 11/7/06, Deems Davis wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Something I was reminded recently of was the issue of
>> serviceability.
>> >>> There is a lot of space behind the baggage bulkhead,
>> and potentially
>> >>> room for things like Oxygen, air Conditioning, AHRS,
>> Strobe power
>> >>> supply, ELT, Elevator servo, Batteries, contactors,
>> etc. etc. With the
>> >>> tailcone disconnected, and with the top fuse skin at
>> the rear of the
>> >>> cabin off, it's easy to get to these areas, but how
>> will that be
>> >>> accomplished when everything is riveted/bolted up, just
>> a thought to
>> >>> throw into the mix, its caused me to think seriously
>> about adding a
>> >>> hinged access door/panel that would be located behind
>> the baggage
>> >>> bulkhead top skin and forward of the tailcone top skin.
>> >>>
>> >>> Deems Davis # 406
>> >>> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>> >>> http://deemsrv10.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> John Jessen wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > So, is there a reason to locate where Russ has done,
>> or to locate
>> >>> > behind the F-1007, further away from the battery? I'm
>> trying to keep
>> >>> > the area above the battery free for a future hat
>> shelf, but don't want
>> >>> > to place things too far aft if there is a reason one
>> should keep the
>> >>> > AHRS and magnetometer closer to, say, the mid of the
>> plane. If either
>> >>> > is back further into the tailcone, could that mess up
>> their readings?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > John Jessen
>> >>> > 40328 (closing the tailcone as soon as I locate the
>> shelf for the
>> >>> > AHRS/magnetometer)
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> >>> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On
>> Behalf Of
>> >>> > *Russell Daves
>> >>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 07, 2006 3:55 AM
>> >>> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
>> >>> > *Subject:* Re: RV10-List: Before closing up the top
>> of the
>> >>> > TailconeBefore closing up the top of the Tailcone
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I installed my most forward cross member as close to
>> the F-1006 as
>> >>> > possible, and just behind the bolts joining the
>> F-1046 and F-1032
>> >>> > Longerons together, almost directly above the
>> battery. I have had
>> >>> > no problems with interference, except where I failed
>> to use brass
>> >>> > bolts and washers to install the magnameter onto the
>> shelf.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Since the duel AHRS and magnameters are all on a
>> shelf next to
>> >>> > each other in the center of the fuselage the left and
>> right seat
>> >>> > belt cables just cross above the cross members and are
> no
>> >>> > problem. If you were to install the AHRS or
>> magnameter next to
>> >>> > the fuselage side wall they could cause interference.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Best regards,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Russ Daves
>> >>> > N710RV flying
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >*
>> >>> >
>> >>> >href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>> >>>
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>> >>> >href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>> >>>
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>> >>>
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.co
> m/Navigator?RV10-List
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >*
>> >>> >
>> >>> > -- No virus found in this Edition. Release Date:
>> 11/6/2006
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > --
>> >>> > No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> >>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matroni
>> cs.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> --
>> Checked 268.14.0/524 - Release Date: 11/8/2006
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by Release Date: 11/8/2006
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> 11/10/2006
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
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