Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:11 AM - Why? [Please Read] (Matt Dralle)
1. 05:21 AM - Re: Why? [Please Read] (SamMarlow)
2. 05:26 AM - Re: Front seats hard to slide (Rob Kermanj)
3. 05:33 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) (Rob Kermanj)
4. 06:18 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) (Jesse Saint)
5. 06:18 AM - Re: Front seats hard to slide (Jesse Saint)
6. 06:22 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) (John Jessen)
7. 06:44 AM - Re: Trim cables question (johngoodman)
8. 07:07 AM - Re: Screw up my spar (Scott Gesele)
9. 07:25 AM - Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. (Niko)
10. 08:02 AM - Re: Re: Trim cables question (Tim Olson)
11. 08:02 AM - Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. (Jesse Saint)
12. 08:54 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) (John W. Cox)
13. 09:16 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) (GRANSCOTT@aol.com)
14. 09:24 AM - Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. (Tim Olson)
15. 09:34 AM - Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. (Niko)
16. 09:42 AM - Re: Trim cables question (egohr1)
17. 10:35 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued (Deems Davis)
18. 10:57 AM - Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. (Jesse Saint)
19. 11:22 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued (Tim Olson)
20. 11:32 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued (John Jessen)
21. 11:41 AM - Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. (Tim Olson)
22. 12:04 PM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued (Kelly McMullen)
23. 12:09 PM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued (Deems Davis)
24. 01:43 PM - Teetering on the edge (Pierre Levy)
25. 01:55 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (James Hein)
26. 02:02 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (kilopapa@antelecom.net)
27. 02:18 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (Tim Olson)
28. 02:19 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (John W. Cox)
29. 02:36 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (John Jessen)
30. 03:01 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (jdalton77)
31. 03:44 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (Rene Felker)
32. 04:06 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (Les Kearney)
33. 04:08 PM - A question for the list gods (Les Kearney)
34. 04:14 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (McGANN, Ron)
35. 04:35 PM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued (Mark Ritter)
36. 04:42 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (Chris , Susie Darcy)
37. 04:57 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (Pascal)
38. 05:07 PM - Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe (Patrick Pulis)
39. 05:08 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (Jae Chang)
40. 05:10 PM - Headliner Material - foam backed or plain? (Deems Davis)
41. 05:32 PM - Re: Teetering on the edge (Rob Wright)
42. 05:34 PM - Re: A question for the list gods (Rob Wright)
43. 05:41 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe (Rob Wright)
44. 06:04 PM - Re: A question for the list gods (linn Walters)
45. 06:59 PM - Re: Front seats hard to slide (GenGrumpy@aol.com)
46. 07:14 PM - Re: A question for the list gods (Matt Dralle)
47. 07:25 PM - Re: Front seats hard to slide (Jesse Saint)
48. 07:57 PM - RV10 PSP Proficienty & Safety Program Objectives -Draft (Deems Davis)
49. 08:09 PM - Re: Headliner Material - foam backed or plain? (DejaVu)
50. 08:09 PM - Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. (Steven DiNieri)
51. 09:35 PM - Re: Headliner Material - foam backed or plain? (Steven DiNieri)
Message 0
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| Subject: | Why? [Please Read] |
Dear Listers,
Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support
from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years
regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate
the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter
once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over
the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to
be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments
stripped off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature
that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone
can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before
they are posted. Safe and simple.
Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives
go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very
fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly
finding the data you're looking for.
And added just this year is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer
the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums
is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages
posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa.
The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and
other files. Additionally added this year is the new List Wiki that allows
members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various
aspects of their project for all to share.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and
an associated web site that receives over 23,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally,
the List Email system forwarded well over 87,000 postings last year,
accounting for an unbelievable 39,000,000 (yes, that's 39 MILLION) email messages
delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in
supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_!
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the
quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message,
Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites.
The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk
a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate,
and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the
Annual List Fund Raiser!
List Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Why? [Please Read] |
Please don't send any more solicitations, I've donated already!
Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
>Dear Listers,
>
>Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity
to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience
over the commercial equivalents.
>
>I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running
a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support
from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run
the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying
banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other
garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the
years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate
the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter
once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists.
>
>I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over
the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe
to be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these
Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments
stripped off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature
that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone
can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before
they are posted. Safe and simple.
>
>Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List
Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives
go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very
fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in
quickly finding the data you're looking for.
>
>And added just this year is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer
the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums
is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email.
Messages posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa.
The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures
and other files. Additionally added this year is the new List Wiki that allows
members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting
various aspects of their project for all to share.
>
>I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since
about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building
RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and
an associated web site that receives over 23,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally,
the List Email system forwarded well over 87,000 postings last year,
accounting for an unbelievable 39,000,000 (yes, that's 39 MILLION) email messages
delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value
in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and
improving a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_!
>
>I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in
the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message,
Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites.
The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk
a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate,
and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the
Annual List Fund Raiser!
>
>List Contribution Web Site:
>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>Thank you,
>
>Matt Dralle
>Matronics Email List Administrator
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Front seats hard to slide |
I put white grease on them. They seem to be getting better with 100+
hrs of use. Passenger seat still binds but, it also is getting better.
do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Nov 19, 2006, at 6:38 PM, GenGrumpy@aol.com wrote:
> For those who have their birds flying, how did you solve the front
> seats being so hard to slide when sitting in them?
>
> I'm now at 30 hrs and have had them out twice to silicone lube
> them. They slide ok for a couple of flights, then get very hard to
> slide again.
>
> Anybody found a permanent solution to ease the slide?
>
> Grumpy
> #40404, 30 hrs and counting
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) |
Deems, I would be interested as well depending on it's location. Sun
& Fun might be a place to consider holding such gathering. We
already have one every year for RVs (pre RV10 era) on January 19, 20
and 21. They have the infrastructure and are accommodating regarding
such events.
do not archive
Rob Kermanj
On Nov 19, 2006, at 10:17 PM, John Ackerman wrote:
>
> Super idea, Deems!
>
> Model-specific proficiency training, both initial and recurrent,
> could do as much as any thing I can think of to promote safe
> operation and low insurance rates.
>
> It appears we may have several people who could be capable
> instructors - and that's the key need.
>
> The idea of LOE as (one) venue is particularly good - something
> like what you suggest would add greatly to both LOE and Copperstate.
>
> What can I do to help?
>
> do not archive
> John Ackerman
>
> On Nov 19, 2006, at 4:54 PM, Deems Davis wrote:
>
>>
>> I'd like to float an idea to the group with the community zeroing
>> in on 700 builders, and that is: Why don't we organize an RV-10
>> Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency Safety Program
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) |
How about doing a forum (or a couple of forums) at an event like Sun-N-Fun
or Airventure? That seems to me to be a natural place for at least the
classroom part of the training. We could even gather (car-pool) to a local
airport to do any flying required. I think this would make it easier to get
a larger group of people involved. I could certainly offer classroom
facilities at X35 either right before or right after Sun-N-Fun (or during,
for that matter).
Just thinking of logistics and getting as many people included as possible.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grimstad
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety
Program)
Deems
Count me in. I'll show up even if my 10 is still a bunch of parts. Could the
idea expended to include all models of RV builders and owners?
Not a copy of the home coming at VAN's but centered around the theme of
Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency and Safety Program. The consideration might be
that more models in the brand with increased safe flying and maintenance
skills could help drive down those premiums, in addition to a larger
customer base for providers and underwriters to consider. Brand v/s model?
Could sponsors be considered to help organize and fund such an event.
Vans, EAA, insurance providers, engine builders, avionics, tools, and
specialties.
Show displays and offers?
I'll be watching this idea grow.
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450 fuselage
Portland, OR 97219
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety
Program)
>
> I'd like to float an idea to the group with the community zeroing in on
> 700 builders, and that is: Why don't we organize an RV-10 Pilot & Aircraft
> Proficiency Safety Program - PAPSP- ? I believe that several of the
> certificated type's have similar programs ( I know that Bonanza's/Barons
> do) so there are models out there that can be adopted/examined. With the
> strength of the building community evidenced on this list, and some prior
> posts aimed at organizing -10 type flyins. Why couldn't we combine those
> objectives? Loosely speaking the idea would be to periodically (annually
> initially?) meet at a fly-in (what about Doug Reeves Land Of
> Enchantment?). In between the hangar talk and comeraderie. there could be
> a pilot skills clinic established to talk specifically to -10 issues, as
> well as an aircraft safety/performance clinic (might even couple it with a
> formation flying clinic) . The clinics could be classroom based,
> cockpit/airframe based, or both. A ciriculum/s would have to be developed,
> guidelines established, volunteerism would have to be significant, but the
> benefits in Insurance, Safety, and potential performance improvements
> could be enormous, a 'self-regulating' group would likely draw the favor
> of insurance companies and underwriters. It also could just be a "Lot of
> Fun" (and could redirect some of the energy that goes into the building
> process into the 'flying' process and potentially delay the starting of
> another project to satisfy the 'need')
>
> Anyway just an idea,
>
> Anybody listening?
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
>> To Rick Sked, Bob and those thinking about Insurance alternatives. Here
>> is a historical perspective on the value of a controlled pool of
insureds
>> and the value of regular annual High Performance Training beyond the
>> token ten hours of initial Transition Training. Dont read this wrong,
>> Mike Seager does a great job with Transition. Annual HP training includes
>> looking at every accident, each cause, critical flight maneuvers and
>> demonstrating mastery of the skills needed to avoid the outcome.
>>
>> This was the solution to the Effect and the Cause was a lot of motivated
>> builders, lacking adequate skills flying beyond their ability in High
>> Performance Aircraft. This is now the norm with Cirrus, Columbia and
>> Lancair. The FAA is following the trend on frequency of loss and
>> correlation to training. The potential is there for everyone at about the
>> time you are 90% complete.
>>
>>*
>>*
>>
>
>
>
--
6:48 AM
--
6:48 AM
Message 5
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| Subject: | Front seats hard to slide |
Grumpy,
Of the 6 seats I have installed and worked with, only one of them was
hard
to slide. I noticed that it was actually easier to slide with a person
sitting in it than without, because you can get the leverage needed.
Pushing back is easiest, because you can push with your feet. Pulling
forward is harder, but you can grab the bar and pull, which makes it
easier.
Overall, I don=92t think it is every seat. I don=92t know if it has to
do with
the installation of the rails, the plastic slides on the bottom of the
seat,
or the rails being not-perfectly-straight to start with. Were your
rails
extremely hard to install? I have noticed that some are and some
aren=92t.
So, in answer to your question, I don=92t know what to say except that
not all
seats are hard to slide, so you apparently just got lucky=85.twice. It
has
also been my experience that they get easier to slide with use, not
harder.
But, we can=92t let our experience dictate truth, they just illustrate
it, so
saying the seats are hard to slide or easy to slide as truth isn=92t
accurate.
There has to be some explanation why some slide easily and some hard.
Have
you talked to Van=92s or Oregon Aero?
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
GenGrumpy@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Front seats hard to slide
For those who have their birds flying, how did you solve the front seats
being so hard to slide when sitting in them?
I'm now at 30 hrs and have had them out twice to silicone lube them.
They
slide ok for a couple of flights, then get very hard to slide again.
Anybody found a permanent solution to ease the slide?
Grumpy
#40404, 30 hrs and counting
DO NOT ARCHIVE
"http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com
"http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na
vig
ator?RV10-List
11/20/2006
6:48 AM
--
11/20/2006
6:48 AM
Message 6
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| Subject: | RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) |
Deems:
Pardon me, Deems, but...ARE YOU NUTS!
What good would this do? Get these bunch of yahoos together? Crazy,
man.
Look what might happen...
1. Create further group cohesion and allow people to meet one another.
Always dangerous. Democracies have started because of meetings like
these.
2. Provide a forum for exchange of ideas. Hell, that could lead to
modifications and learning.
3. Give crazed individuals a chance to show off their piloting and
other
skills, such as spot landings, formation.
4. Force people to sign a document of insurance that would save money
and
take bread away from agents, who might have children to feed.
5. Drive those among us who haven't finished yet to bars all over town
buying drinks for those who have.
6. Allow John Cox a forum. My good gracious! Just the thought of it
has
me slack jawed!
7. And, at least 4 other things I can't think of that would make it the
proscribed list of 10. Important things.
Deems, don't do it man. People, like me, who volunteer for such things,
have rivets to pound, mightily.
John Jessen
#40328 (buildus interruptus)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [HYPERLINK
"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com"mailto:owner-rv10-list-serve
r@m
atronics.com <HYPERLINK
"mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com"mailto:owner-rv10-list-serve
r@m
atronics.com> ] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 6:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety
Program)
I'd like to float an idea to the group with the community zeroing in on
700
builders, and that is: Why don't we organize an RV-10 Pilot & Aircraft
Proficiency Safety Program - PAPSP- ? I believe that several of the
certificated type's have similar programs ( I know that Bonanza's/Barons
do)
so there are models out there that can be adopted/examined. With the
strength of the building community evidenced on this list, and some
prior
posts aimed at organizing -10 type flyins.
Why couldn't we combine those objectives? Loosely speaking the idea
would be
to periodically (annually initially?) meet at a fly-in (what about Doug
Reeves Land Of Enchantment?). In between the hangar talk and
comeraderie.
there could be a pilot skills clinic established to talk specifically to
-10
issues, as well as an aircraft safety/performance clinic (might even
couple
it with a formation flying clinic) . The clinics could be classroom
based,
cockpit/airframe based, or both. A ciriculum/s would have to be
developed,
guidelines established, volunteerism would have to be significant, but
the
benefits in Insurance, Safety, and potential performance improvements
could
be enormous, a 'self-regulating' group would likely draw the favor of
insurance companies and underwriters. It also could just be a "Lot of
Fun"
(and could redirect some of the energy that goes into the building
process
into the 'flying' process and potentially delay the starting of another
project to satisfy the 'need')
Anyway just an idea,
Anybody listening?
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
HYPERLINK "http://deemsrv10.com/"http://deemsrv10.com/ <HYPERLINK
"http://deemsrv10.com/"http://deemsrv10.com/>
John W. Cox wrote:
> To Rick Sked, Bob and those thinking about Insurance alternatives.
> Here is a historical perspective on the value of a controlled pool of
> insured=92s and the value of regular annual High Performance Training
> beyond the token ten hours of initial Transition Training. Don=92t
read
> this wrong, Mike Seager does a great job with Transition. Annual HP
> training includes looking at every accident, each cause, critical
> flight maneuvers and demonstrating mastery of the skills needed to
> avoid the outcome.
>
> This was the solution to the Effect and the Cause was a lot of
> motivated builders, lacking adequate skills flying beyond their
> ability in High Performance Aircraft. This is now the norm with
> Cirrus, Columbia and Lancair. The FAA is following the trend on
> frequency of loss and correlation to training. The potential is there
> for everyone at about the time you are 90% complete.
>
>*
>*
>
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
<HYPERLINK
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
>
List
Download,
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na
vig
ator?RV10-List <HYPERLINK
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na
vig
ator?RV10-List>
--
11/20/2006
3:04 AM
--
11/20/2006
6:48 AM
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Trim cables question |
I'll be at that spot in about a month; thanks for the heads up. For Eric, you mentioned
Tygon tubing. Since Tygon is a brand, is there a type of their tubing
that's superior, or do you just mean some kind of flexible tubing?
John
Tim(at)MyRV10.com wrote:
> Great idea Eric. One thing, for those doing the pre-assembly of the
> tail. There's really not a lot to be gained by installing the trim
> mechanism early. You may as well wait untilvyou get to the step
> post-painting where you have to assemble all of the airframe. I didn't
> really find anything necessary that needed to be done early. If it were
> me, I'd just avoid it until later. You could still assemble the rest of
> the tail so you can cut the intersection fairing though.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> egohr1 wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, I disconnected them, but before you pull them though tape a
> > piece of heavy wall tygon tubing to the end of the tube. Leave the
> > tube in the HS as a fish line. When you go to reinstall the tube the
> > tubing will make the reinstllation mech easier.
> >
> > -------- eric gohr EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu
> >
> >
> >
>
--------
#40572 Empennage - starting Elevators!
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75866#75866
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Screw up my spar |
> Time: 08:43:15 PM PST US
> From: "David McNeill" <dlm46007@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Screw up my spar
>
> www.mcmaster.com (part 95430A387) has a M10
> (class10.9) bolt that is
> 150000 psi tensile strength compared to the AN spec
> for the 125000 psi
> tensile strength. check
> http://www.allmetalcorp.com/htm/pg902_04.htm
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: SamMarlow
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 7:17 PM
> Subject: RV10-List: Screw up my spar
>
>
> I think I screwed up my spar. When I was drilling
> the rear angle of
> incidence hole, the 3/8 AN6 bolt hole, I let my hand
> wander a bit off
> center. Guess what, now the hole is to big for an
> AN6 bolt. I talked to
> Ken K at van's, and he said I could use one step
> oversize, or one sixty
> fourth of an inch larger bolt. The problem is, I 'm
> having trouble
> locating a NAS6660-4x bolt. Can someone point me in
> the right direction!
>
This is some potentially dangerous advice. Please do
not substitute hardware store bolts for aircraft
hardware. Your claim that the metric bolt is stronger
than the specified AN hardware is not justification to
use it. The so called stronger bolt may also be
harder. This could result in a shorter fatigue life.
AN hardware has rolled threads, most hardware store
bolts have cut threads. Rolled threads are less
likely to have stress risers at the base of the
thread. All hardware should also be traceable. This
is a critical joint, use the correct hardware.
I would stick with the advice from Vans and use an
oversized bolt. Try Genuine Aircraft Hardware at
http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/ . They should
have the bolt. Make sure that you also get the
correct reamer.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. |
I have been trying to insert the Control Stick into the Control Base this m
orning. I am not sure how much engagement is needed between the two. Righ
t now the control stick only goes about as far as the weld between the two
tubes in the Base. A little less than half of the unpainted portion of the
control stick is not engaged. Does this sound correct?=0A=0ABy the way it
took about 2 hrs of working on the inside of the Control Base tubes to get
the Control Stick to fit inside it.=0A=0Athanks=0A=0ANiko=0A40188
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Trim cables question |
John, you can use tygon, rubber, poly, electrical wire, a coat hanger,
or anything you want. The idea is to leave something in there that
you can attach to the end of the cable to pull the cable through.
Ideally, something that fits nice and tight so you can pull with
a little force when needed. Just try some things...maybe start with
cheap poly tubing, and see what fits over the threaded end well.
You can always add a layer of tape over it to help secure it. Just
leave something in the stabilizer so pull with or you'll have to
deal with the pain twice.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
johngoodman wrote:
>
> I'll be at that spot in about a month; thanks for the heads up. For Eric, you
mentioned Tygon tubing. Since Tygon is a brand, is there a type of their tubing
that's superior, or do you just mean some kind of flexible tubing?
> John
>
>
> Tim(at)MyRV10.com wrote:
>> Great idea Eric. One thing, for those doing the pre-assembly of the
>> tail. There's really not a lot to be gained by installing the trim
>> mechanism early. You may as well wait untilvyou get to the step
>> post-painting where you have to assemble all of the airframe. I didn't
>> really find anything necessary that needed to be done early. If it were
>> me, I'd just avoid it until later. You could still assemble the rest of
>> the tail so you can cut the intersection fairing though.
>>
>> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>> egohr1 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, I disconnected them, but before you pull them though tape a
>>> piece of heavy wall tygon tubing to the end of the tube. Leave the
>>> tube in the HS as a fish line. When you go to reinstall the tube the
>>> tubing will make the reinstllation mech easier.
>>>
>>> -------- eric gohr EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --------
> #40572 Empennage - starting Elevators!
> N711JG reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75866#75866
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. |
Ideally, you want the stick to fit in as far as possible, which means
using
a round/half-round file to take down the inside of the weld so it fits.
You
could also use a sanding drum that=92s a little smaller than the stick
to take
it down. Usually it is just a couple of burrs in there keeping it from
going further. On our sticks I think we got about =BE or a little more
of the
unpainted portion inside. The more you have sticking down inside the
more
strength you will have, and the less likely you will have a wobble in
your
stick, which is something I have noticed in a number of -10=92s out
there,
both flying and in progress.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niko
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 10:25 AM
Subject: RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.
I have been trying to insert the Control Stick into the Control Base
this
morning. I am not sure how much engagement is needed between the two.
Right now the control stick only goes about as far as the weld between
the
two tubes in the Base. A little less than half of the unpainted portion
of
the control stick is not engaged. Does this sound correct?
By the way it took about 2 hrs of working on the inside of the Control
Base
tubes to get the Control Stick to fit inside it.
thanks
Niko
40188
--
11/20/2006
6:48 AM
Message 12
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| Subject: | RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) |
For anyone who has attended a qualified, insurance reducing HPAT
seminar, they will remember that it is an intensive 16 hours of ground
school followed by 4 hours of sweat inducing maneuvers. Often wiping out
three days on a calendar with just enough time for simple socialization
at a late dinner. It is neither conducive to trade shows nor convention
atmosphere.
We may be thinking more of a social get together. High Alpha
approaches, engine out procedures, onboard fires (Sim) and total
electrical systems loss do not make for a sociable attendee. Glass
cockpit proficiency is even more of the same.
The beer will be cold at Camp Condrey next OSH, on me.
John Cox
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 6:18 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency &
Safety Program)
How about doing a forum (or a couple of forums) at an event like
Sun-N-Fun
or Airventure? That seems to me to be a natural place for at least the
classroom part of the training. We could even gather (car-pool) to a
local
airport to do any flying required. I think this would make it easier to
get
a larger group of people involved. I could certainly offer classroom
facilities at X35 either right before or right after Sun-N-Fun (or
during,
for that matter).
Just thinking of logistics and getting as many people included as
possible.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grimstad
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency &
Safety
Program)
<bldgrv10450@comcast.net>
Deems
Count me in. I'll show up even if my 10 is still a bunch of parts. Could
the
idea expended to include all models of RV builders and owners?
Not a copy of the home coming at VAN's but centered around the theme of
Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency and Safety Program. The consideration might
be
that more models in the brand with increased safe flying and maintenance
skills could help drive down those premiums, in addition to a larger
customer base for providers and underwriters to consider. Brand v/s
model?
Could sponsors be considered to help organize and fund such an event.
Vans, EAA, insurance providers, engine builders, avionics, tools, and
specialties.
Show displays and offers?
I'll be watching this idea grow.
Paul Grimstad
RV10 40450 fuselage
Portland, OR 97219
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety
Program)
>
> I'd like to float an idea to the group with the community zeroing in
on
> 700 builders, and that is: Why don't we organize an RV-10 Pilot &
Aircraft
> Proficiency Safety Program - PAPSP- ? I believe that several of the
> certificated type's have similar programs ( I know that
Bonanza's/Barons
> do) so there are models out there that can be adopted/examined. With
the
> strength of the building community evidenced on this list, and some
prior
> posts aimed at organizing -10 type flyins. Why couldn't we combine
those
> objectives? Loosely speaking the idea would be to periodically
(annually
> initially?) meet at a fly-in (what about Doug Reeves Land Of
> Enchantment?). In between the hangar talk and comeraderie. there could
be
> a pilot skills clinic established to talk specifically to -10 issues,
as
> well as an aircraft safety/performance clinic (might even couple it
with a
> formation flying clinic) . The clinics could be classroom based,
> cockpit/airframe based, or both. A ciriculum/s would have to be
developed,
> guidelines established, volunteerism would have to be significant, but
the
> benefits in Insurance, Safety, and potential performance improvements
> could be enormous, a 'self-regulating' group would likely draw the
favor
> of insurance companies and underwriters. It also could just be a "Lot
of
> Fun" (and could redirect some of the energy that goes into the
building
> process into the 'flying' process and potentially delay the starting
of
> another project to satisfy the 'need')
>
> Anyway just an idea,
>
> Anybody listening?
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> John W. Cox wrote:
>
>> To Rick Sked, Bob and those thinking about Insurance alternatives.
Here
>> is a historical perspective on the value of a controlled pool of
insured's
>> and the value of regular annual High Performance Training beyond the
>> token ten hours of initial Transition Training. Don't read this
wrong,
>> Mike Seager does a great job with Transition. Annual HP training
includes
>> looking at every accident, each cause, critical flight maneuvers and
>> demonstrating mastery of the skills needed to avoid the outcome.
>>
>> This was the solution to the Effect and the Cause was a lot of
motivated
>> builders, lacking adequate skills flying beyond their ability in High
>> Performance Aircraft. This is now the norm with Cirrus, Columbia and
>> Lancair. The FAA is following the trend on frequency of loss and
>> correlation to training. The potential is there for everyone at about
the
>> time you are 90% complete.
>>
>>*
>>*
>>
>
>
>
--
6:48 AM
--
6:48 AM
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot & Aircraft Proficiency & Safety Program) |
Deems,
Please accept this in the vein of safety...if I can help please let me know,
I'm currently the Wing Safety Officer, Delaware CAP. Creating a good safety
program/flight is a complex issue that will take a good bit of effort but
will be well worth the effort.
If I can help you in any way as you develop it please let me
know...additionally I work in the CAP operational area reviewing the paperwork
on our pilot
activities...CAP requires each pilot to receive an annual written, flight and
oral exam similar to a BFR but with several elements for CAP's requirements.
Additionally ORM--Operational Risk Management is a key element to be
reviewed before each flight, along with a formal inspection sheet, flight review
etc. In the past several years, I've set up a number of safety seminars with
the FSDO's now the FAAST Teams and visits to operations...having experienced
the MAPA events also. So there are a number of good programs out their one
can borrow from.
Additionally one might want to visit the major insurance carriers to see if
they have standards on PTS and if one completes the PTS what type of discounts
one could receive. But the best result one can receive is a group of
safety conscious pilots...who know the limits of themselves and their aircraft.
If you are really bored, I can send to you a set of DVD's from our last one
day seminar with a number of presenters...all most all were experienced CFII
..6 hours of formal presentations plus a ground inspection walk around.
Our Wing in the past 4 years has flown over 10,000 hours with one
incident...a bird strike...we're pretty proud of our safety record. The wing
fly's
almost daily weather permitting, as many CAP flight cannot be flown as IFR
mission.
So the risks are certainly different than what many of the RV 10 pilots will
experience. Still Opertional Risk Management should be well under stood by
all who venture into the sky's. We'll all see a new program from the FAA's
FAAST teams on this area soon but it will have another name.
Patrick
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. |
Good point Jesse. 2 additional comments...
1) I used a dremel tool sanding drum. Worked well to
deal with the inside of the bore.
2) Regarding stick wobble/slop: I just dealt with this
myself. I noticed I had a bit of looseness in the stick.
At OSH I compared it to Vic's and he had some too. Over
the last couple weeks I actually got rid of mine completely.
Here's more...
The source of the slop in my case was actually the OD of the
BUSHING 065 x .375 x 2.313 shown on page 39-8. (see attached
.jpg)
Or more accurately, the sloppy hole in my WD-1011-L & R.
The way bushings normally work, you want them to have one
movable surface, the ID that rides on the removable bolt.
You want the OD of the bushing to be fixed to the WD-1011
somewhat. The AN4-27 bolt that holds the assembly together
doesn't get cranked really tight, hence the castle nut. You
want to trim the bushing so it's longer than the WD-10ll,
but still fits in the mating part. If necessary, you trim
the WD-1011 shorter. The slop in my case though was the OD
of that bushing, as I mentioned. I could stick the bushing
in, then stick the bolt through, and rock the bolt up and
down slightly, feeling the slop. The reamed ID of the
bushing was very snug on the bolt, but the OD was slopping
around in the WD-1011.
I fixed it by using a loctite product "Loctite quick metal
660" that I had sitting around from a previous bushing
repair a couple years ago.
http://www.chemicalcontacts.co.za/teroson/retainers.htm
You could probably use many of the ones on this page.
Basically, it just fills the gap and solidifies the
bushing to the WD-1011, so it now pivots on the nicely
fit bolt. When tightening the AN4-27, you just bring it
up tight, then loosen it to the next castle, so it's
not sloppy, but non-restrictive. Wala, no more stick slop.
The only downside is in the ultra-ultra-long term when
you want to replace the bushing. It'll be tight in the
WD-1011, and will probably require you to drill out the
bushing to the OD size so you can install a new one.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> Ideally, you want the stick to fit in as far as possible, which means
> using a round/half-round file to take down the inside of the weld so it
> fits. You could also use a sanding drum thats a little smaller than
> the stick to take it down. Usually it is just a couple of burrs in
> there keeping it from going further. On our sticks I think we got about
> or a little more of the unpainted portion inside. The more you have
> sticking down inside the more strength you will have, and the less
> likely you will have a wobble in your stick, which is something I have
> noticed in a number of -10s out there, both flying and in progress.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Niko
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2006 10:25 AM
> *To:* Matronics
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.
>
>
>
> I have been trying to insert the Control Stick into the Control Base
> this morning. I am not sure how much engagement is needed between the
> two. Right now the control stick only goes about as far as the weld
> between the two tubes in the Base. A little less than half of the
> unpainted portion of the control stick is not engaged. Does this sound
> correct?
>
>
>
> By the way it took about 2 hrs of working on the inside of the Control
> Base tubes to get the Control Stick to fit inside it.
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> Niko
>
> 40188
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
> -- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM -- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. |
Thanks for the reply Jesse.=0A=0AIn my case its more than just a burr. One
of the tubes is extending about 1/32" so I have to sand down quiet a bit.
As far as the wobble I would think that some proseal in the area when inst
alling the parts will solve it. I thought it might be a problem with the f
unction of the stick because it would be extending further forward.=0A=0Ath
anks again=0A=0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Je
sse Saint <jesse@itecusa.org>=0ATo: rv10-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday,
November 20, 2006 11:01:30 AM=0ASubject: RE: RV10-List: Control Stick Enga
gement into Control Stick Base.=0A=0A=0AIdeally, you want the stick to fit
in as far as possible, which means using a round/half-round file to take do
wn the inside of the weld so it fits. You could also use a sanding drum th
at=92s a little smaller than the stick to take it down. Usually it is just
a couple of burrs in there keeping it from going further. On our sticks I
think we got about =BE or a little more of the unpainted portion inside.
The more you have sticking down inside the more strength you will have, and
the less likely you will have a wobble in your stick, which is something I
have noticed in a number of -10=92s out there, both flying and in progress
.=0A =0AJesse Saint=0AI-TEC, Inc.=0Ajesse@itecusa.org=0Awww.itecusa.org=0AW
: 352-465-4545=0AC: 352-427-0285=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-rv10-list-server@ma
tronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Niko
=0ASent: Monday, November 20, 2006 10:25 AM=0ATo: Matronics=0ASubject: RV10
-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.=0A =0AI have been
trying to insert the Control Stick into the Control Base this morning. I a
m not sure how much engagement is needed between the two. Right now the co
ntrol stick only goes about as far as the weld between the two tubes in the
Base. A little less than half of the unpainted portion of the control stic
k is not engaged. Does this sound correct?=0A =0ABy the way it took about
2 hrs of working on the inside of the Control Base tubes to get the Control
Stick to fit inside it.=0A =0Athanks=0A =0ANiko=0A40188=0A=0A=0Ahref="ht
tp://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com=0Ahref="http://www.builde
rsbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com=0Ahref="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kit
log.com=0Ahref="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com=0Ahre
f="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/
Navigator?RV10-List=0A=0A=0A-- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM -- Release
===========
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Trim cables question |
Any flexible tubing will work, I used a heavy wall tube that just slides over the
threads and a little larger than the platic end of the rod. This and a little
duct tape keep the trim cable from snagging on the snap bushings.
I figured this out after 2 hours of fighting with the first one. The second took
10 minutes.
:D
--------
eric gohr
EGOHR86@alumni.carnegiemellon.edu
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75904#75904
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued |
To all who've responded to this thread so far:
Thank you for your responses. As Patrick, John and others have pointed
out, accomplishing something like this is NOT a minor undertaking. I
don't doubt for a moment, the amount of work that would be required to
put something like this together, with 40% (+/- 90%) more to go on my
own project, I'm also not misleading myself into thinking this is
something I could/would do alone or in my own spare time. However, I am
willing to put some of the evening time that I spend (along with others
time) browsing the boards/lists/websites into developing something that
could be of significant value to our community. There is enough
anecdotal evidence so far to suggest that the REAL value is there. As
Patrick pointed out the biggest value, is a fleet of safety conscious
pilots and aircraft. And while this is _First and Foremost_ a Safety and
Proficiency idea, It doesn't rule out having some fun and enjoyment. It
also doesn't have to be built and implemented in a way that requires us
to build and eat the whole elephant at once, perhaps a phased approach
is possible?
In order for this idea/concept to work, it will have to have a LOT of
support from the RV-10 community, as it would be entirely voluntary,
there are no compulsory 'enforcement' actions that can be taken other
than to withhold some type of certification. It would also require
availability and commitment of some particular skills (CFI/CFII), that I
for one don't have. (may encourage me to get another rating! :-) ) So
with all of that said, the 1st item is to determine what , how much of
an interest there is in a program like this, its easy to respond to an
e-mail, and although I've received 10 + positive responses to the idea,
that's not yet enough (1.5%) in my opinion to make a GO commitment.
However it is encouraging enough to continue with the step of
determining what kind of an interest there might be in such an event.
Apart from this mail list, does anyone else have any additional ideas on
how to survey the RV-10 group? I see that Rick S. and Bob K. have
received. (If I can figure out how to do it I might put up a survey page
on my web site, for those bashful folks who aren't as vocal on the mail
list)
IF, (big IF) there is enough interest, I'm thinking the next step would
be to form an advisory group that would help to specify the mission,
establish the scope, set priorities, outline a curriculum, establish
governance, etc. Some of you have indicated an willingness.desire to
contribute, I'll assemble a list of potential contributors and the skill
set/expertise that may be available. If you don't want to respond
on-line send me a not offline to register your interest.
One of the suggestions was to broaden the concept to the whole RV
community. My prior life experience taught me that as the
size/complexity of the effort increases, the risk of failure increases
exponentially. So I'm inclined to focus on this group (RV-10) for
starters. If we can make a go of it, then it could be exported to a
wider community.
Please keep the suggestions/alternatives/input coming I have learned
that the electronic/distributed community is indeed a synergistic
organism and there is much more knowledge and expertise out here than I
could ever hope to acquire in my lifetime.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
>*
>*
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. |
By reading the page you sent (and according to our installation), it seems
to me that the bushing is supposed to be tightened with the bolt (so it is
fixed with the bolt), then the WD-1011 is pivoting on the bushing, not the
bushing pivoting on the bolt. Am I way off here. I would think the allow
the bolt to be loose would be less safe than greasing the mate that you
glued so the pivot is there. I think that's why it says, "Debur the ends of
the control stick base bushing so that they slide easily inside the
WD-1011..." Either way there are parts rubbing, but that would certainly
explain why the bushing needs to be longer than the WD-1011.
Am I way off? I am sure it will work either way, but to fix wobble in ours
I turned down the end of the bushing so there is no play on the WD-1011.
Well, anyway, wobble is bad if you can help it. At least it is
disconcerting when you are flying autopilot and you touch the stick and it
feels loose. Going with the dremel sanding drum either on a dremel or a die
grinder will do the trick. It should also help with the clearance with the
instrument panel, I would think, making sure the engagement is sufficient.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.
Good point Jesse. 2 additional comments...
1) I used a dremel tool sanding drum. Worked well to
deal with the inside of the bore.
2) Regarding stick wobble/slop: I just dealt with this
myself. I noticed I had a bit of looseness in the stick.
At OSH I compared it to Vic's and he had some too. Over
the last couple weeks I actually got rid of mine completely.
Here's more...
The source of the slop in my case was actually the OD of the
BUSHING 065 x .375 x 2.313 shown on page 39-8. (see attached
.jpg)
Or more accurately, the sloppy hole in my WD-1011-L & R.
The way bushings normally work, you want them to have one
movable surface, the ID that rides on the removable bolt.
You want the OD of the bushing to be fixed to the WD-1011
somewhat. The AN4-27 bolt that holds the assembly together
doesn't get cranked really tight, hence the castle nut. You
want to trim the bushing so it's longer than the WD-10ll,
but still fits in the mating part. If necessary, you trim
the WD-1011 shorter. The slop in my case though was the OD
of that bushing, as I mentioned. I could stick the bushing
in, then stick the bolt through, and rock the bolt up and
down slightly, feeling the slop. The reamed ID of the
bushing was very snug on the bolt, but the OD was slopping
around in the WD-1011.
I fixed it by using a loctite product "Loctite quick metal
660" that I had sitting around from a previous bushing
repair a couple years ago.
http://www.chemicalcontacts.co.za/teroson/retainers.htm
You could probably use many of the ones on this page.
Basically, it just fills the gap and solidifies the
bushing to the WD-1011, so it now pivots on the nicely
fit bolt. When tightening the AN4-27, you just bring it
up tight, then loosen it to the next castle, so it's
not sloppy, but non-restrictive. Wala, no more stick slop.
The only downside is in the ultra-ultra-long term when
you want to replace the bushing. It'll be tight in the
WD-1011, and will probably require you to drill out the
bushing to the OD size so you can install a new one.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Jesse Saint wrote:
> Ideally, you want the stick to fit in as far as possible, which means
> using a round/half-round file to take down the inside of the weld so it
> fits. You could also use a sanding drum thats a little smaller than
> the stick to take it down. Usually it is just a couple of burrs in
> there keeping it from going further. On our sticks I think we got about
> or a little more of the unpainted portion inside. The more you have
> sticking down inside the more strength you will have, and the less
> likely you will have a wobble in your stick, which is something I have
> noticed in a number of -10s out there, both flying and in progress.
>
>
>
> Jesse Saint
>
> I-TEC, Inc.
>
> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>
> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>
> W: 352-465-4545
>
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Niko
> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2006 10:25 AM
> *To:* Matronics
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.
>
>
>
> I have been trying to insert the Control Stick into the Control Base
> this morning. I am not sure how much engagement is needed between the
> two. Right now the control stick only goes about as far as the weld
> between the two tubes in the Base. A little less than half of the
> unpainted portion of the control stick is not engaged. Does this sound
> correct?
>
>
>
> By the way it took about 2 hrs of working on the inside of the Control
> Base tubes to get the Control Stick to fit inside it.
>
>
>
> thanks
>
>
>
> Niko
>
> 40188
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?RV10-List
>
> *
>
> -- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM -- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
6:48 AM
--
6:48 AM
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued |
Here's my 3 cents.
I think it's a fantastic idea. I think it would be best done at
a fly-in type thing, perhaps regional, or perhaps just
do a mid-west, mid-east type thing...maybe Kentucky and Colorado
or something, twice a year. It should be limited to RV-10's,
for simplicity. We could gather, have some flying activities,
have some Q&A sessions with builders or flying builders. We could
hold classroom type safety seminars, but really, we all know the
most important factors are pilot attitude and weather. So, I think
it would be sweet if we invited Mike Seager and Alex De Dominicis
to the event to perhaps provide 1hr transition training block times
for 2 days over a weekend. Then for flying people, perhaps there's
a way we could get RV-10 specific proficiency checks done by other
members. Like a self-policing ride-along program, since you can
learn a lot from another pilot watching and critiquing you. Some
people, like myself, might even be motivated enough to get a CFI
rating, or even CFII. Then the experience could be tailored to
your needs. Need instrument proficiency, then focus on that.
What would be cool is if we had 5-10 CFI/II's show up and we could
use it as an RV-10 specific "BFR" type event.
I think pursuing insurance rate decreases would be a very
nice thing, but I don't know that we have the structure available
to do this sort of thing right now. That might be more
practical in a non-group setting, just like transition training,
where an approved person like Alex could do a 5-10 hour course
every 1-2 years, for a very small number of individuals. I mean,
I don't expect the insurance companies to give a discount to
someone just because they flew 1 hour with someone for a
minimal program.
So we have a fly-in, meeting, Q&A session, with some BFR type
check rides, and maybe some RV-10 intro flights. Sounds like a
good weekend to me. Perhaps 3 or 4 people presenting as a group
on some common maintenance problems or building problems that
are RV-10 specific....so the attending builders know what to
watch out for. The Q&A session with those who have gone before
would be a most valuable thing, I'd think. This portion we
could set up every OSH or S-N-F too, if we could get the
appropriate people.
Not sure if we have enough flying members to start the push
yet. I firmly believe that until we see about 75-100 flying
RV-10's, our attendance would be too minimal to worry about.
Look at LOE....only 4 RV-10's showed up. Look at the
Homecoming...only a very few. OSH, sure, had a bunch, but
you can't really easily fly around at OSH to do what we're
talking about here. Oh well, enough for now.
PS: Am I the only one who thinks it's strange that the RV-10 flying
count only went up by 25-28 since I flew back in 2/12/06? For
a while it seemed they were coming out of the woodwork, but
these days there's a real noticeably small number of first flights
for some reason.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> To all who've responded to this thread so far:
>
> Thank you for your responses. As Patrick, John and others have pointed
> out, accomplishing something like this is NOT a minor undertaking. I
> don't doubt for a moment, the amount of work that would be required to
> put something like this together, with 40% (+/- 90%) more to go on my
> own project, I'm also not misleading myself into thinking this is
> something I could/would do alone or in my own spare time. However, I am
> willing to put some of the evening time that I spend (along with others
> time) browsing the boards/lists/websites into developing something that
> could be of significant value to our community. There is enough
> anecdotal evidence so far to suggest that the REAL value is there. As
> Patrick pointed out the biggest value, is a fleet of safety conscious
> pilots and aircraft. And while this is _First and Foremost_ a Safety and
> Proficiency idea, It doesn't rule out having some fun and enjoyment. It
> also doesn't have to be built and implemented in a way that requires us
> to build and eat the whole elephant at once, perhaps a phased approach
> is possible?
>
> In order for this idea/concept to work, it will have to have a LOT of
> support from the RV-10 community, as it would be entirely voluntary,
> there are no compulsory 'enforcement' actions that can be taken other
> than to withhold some type of certification. It would also require
> availability and commitment of some particular skills (CFI/CFII), that I
> for one don't have. (may encourage me to get another rating! :-) ) So
> with all of that said, the 1st item is to determine what , how much of
> an interest there is in a program like this, its easy to respond to an
> e-mail, and although I've received 10 + positive responses to the idea,
> that's not yet enough (1.5%) in my opinion to make a GO commitment.
> However it is encouraging enough to continue with the step of
> determining what kind of an interest there might be in such an event.
>
> Apart from this mail list, does anyone else have any additional ideas on
> how to survey the RV-10 group? I see that Rick S. and Bob K. have
> received. (If I can figure out how to do it I might put up a survey page
> on my web site, for those bashful folks who aren't as vocal on the mail
> list)
>
> IF, (big IF) there is enough interest, I'm thinking the next step would
> be to form an advisory group that would help to specify the mission,
> establish the scope, set priorities, outline a curriculum, establish
> governance, etc. Some of you have indicated an willingness.desire to
> contribute, I'll assemble a list of potential contributors and the skill
> set/expertise that may be available. If you don't want to respond
> on-line send me a not offline to register your interest.
>
> One of the suggestions was to broaden the concept to the whole RV
> community. My prior life experience taught me that as the
> size/complexity of the effort increases, the risk of failure increases
> exponentially. So I'm inclined to focus on this group (RV-10) for
> starters. If we can make a go of it, then it could be exported to a
> wider community.
> Please keep the suggestions/alternatives/input coming I have learned
> that the electronic/distributed community is indeed a synergistic
> organism and there is much more knowledge and expertise out here than I
> could ever hope to acquire in my lifetime.
>
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>> *
>> *
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | RV-10 PAPSP -Continued |
Deems, my post on this topic was a lame attempt at humor, as you know. Just
to make sure, in case the humor was not obvious, I want you to know that I
am very much in favor of this and am willing to put time towards it, so
count me in. I won't have a flying -10 for awhile, but that won't stop me
from helping out.
I agree. Start slow and work your way to larger.
John Jessen
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued
To all who've responded to this thread so far:
Thank you for your responses. As Patrick, John and others have pointed out,
accomplishing something like this is NOT a minor undertaking. I don't doubt
for a moment, the amount of work that would be required to put something
like this together, with 40% (+/- 90%) more to go on my own project, I'm
also not misleading myself into thinking this is something I could/would do
alone or in my own spare time. However, I am willing to put some of the
evening time that I spend (along with others
time) browsing the boards/lists/websites into developing something that
could be of significant value to our community. There is enough anecdotal
evidence so far to suggest that the REAL value is there. As Patrick pointed
out the biggest value, is a fleet of safety conscious pilots and aircraft.
And while this is _First and Foremost_ a Safety and Proficiency idea, It
doesn't rule out having some fun and enjoyment. It also doesn't have to be
built and implemented in a way that requires us to build and eat the whole
elephant at once, perhaps a phased approach is possible?
In order for this idea/concept to work, it will have to have a LOT of
support from the RV-10 community, as it would be entirely voluntary, there
are no compulsory 'enforcement' actions that can be taken other than to
withhold some type of certification. It would also require availability and
commitment of some particular skills (CFI/CFII), that I for one don't have.
(may encourage me to get another rating! :-) ) So with all of that said,
the 1st item is to determine what , how much of an interest there is in a
program like this, its easy to respond to an e-mail, and although I've
received 10 + positive responses to the idea, that's not yet enough (1.5%)
in my opinion to make a GO commitment.
However it is encouraging enough to continue with the step of determining
what kind of an interest there might be in such an event.
Apart from this mail list, does anyone else have any additional ideas on how
to survey the RV-10 group? I see that Rick S. and Bob K. have received. (If
I can figure out how to do it I might put up a survey page on my web site,
for those bashful folks who aren't as vocal on the mail
list)
IF, (big IF) there is enough interest, I'm thinking the next step would be
to form an advisory group that would help to specify the mission, establish
the scope, set priorities, outline a curriculum, establish governance, etc.
Some of you have indicated an willingness.desire to contribute, I'll
assemble a list of potential contributors and the skill set/expertise that
may be available. If you don't want to respond on-line send me a not offline
to register your interest.
One of the suggestions was to broaden the concept to the whole RV community.
My prior life experience taught me that as the size/complexity of the
effort increases, the risk of failure increases exponentially. So I'm
inclined to focus on this group (RV-10) for starters. If we can make a go of
it, then it could be exported to a wider community.
Please keep the suggestions/alternatives/input coming I have learned that
the electronic/distributed community is indeed a synergistic organism and
there is much more knowledge and expertise out here than I could ever hope
to acquire in my lifetime.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
>*
>*
>
--
6:48 AM
--
6:48 AM
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. |
Reply inline...
Jesse Saint wrote:
>
> By reading the page you sent (and according to our installation), it seems
> to me that the bushing is supposed to be tightened with the bolt (so it is
> fixed with the bolt), then the WD-1011 is pivoting on the bushing, not the
> bushing pivoting on the bolt. Am I way off here. I would think the allow
> the bolt to be loose would be less safe than greasing the mate that you
> glued so the pivot is there. I think that's why it says, "Debur the ends of
> the control stick base bushing so that they slide easily inside the
> WD-1011..." Either way there are parts rubbing, but that would certainly
> explain why the bushing needs to be longer than the WD-1011.
>
In most mechanical systems, the bushing is meant to move around on
the removable hardware...the bolt. As you noticed, that's why you want
to ensure the bushing is longer than the other part, so the
steel-to-steel is eliminated at the ends. Also, with slop if that
bushing wasn't secured, that outer part could slide back and forth
and still rub on the other steel part....not good. With the bushing
captive in the WD-1011, you're now limited to brass-on-steel movement,
with the endcaps from the other steel part only rubbing brass.
You'll still need to deburr the ends, because you want to be able to
easily slide the brass tube inside the steel....but deburring isn't
going to have any effect, even if you put it together the other
way, on any wear inside. Now, if you do capture that bushing inside
the WD-1011, you will certainly not want to crank way down on the
pinching bolt, or you'll induce a lot more friction into the system.
I should note that ideally, you should not have to use loctite or
anything on the WD-1011. Ideally it would be a high-friction
almost press-fit. But, there was so much slop in there that I
had no choice but to use a gap filler. I had considered
having a larger OD bushing made up that was a tight fit, but
that just wastes time and money and effort. You really don't
want the thing revolving around inside the WD-1011 anyway.
But, if you didn't have much slop, it really wouldn't be a huge
problem, either. At least it isn't steel-on-steel...except if
the steel ends of the WD-1011 start to contact the other steel
control linkage.
The fact that it's a castle nut spec'd there also indicates
that it isn't necessarily a high-torque application. Just like
doing wheel bearings, snug, then back off so they spin freely,
and use a cotter pin. Nobody questions the safety of a wheel
that spins freely and the nut is held by a cotter pin, right?
> Am I way off? I am sure it will work either way, but to fix wobble in ours
> I turned down the end of the bushing so there is no play on the WD-1011.
>
> Well, anyway, wobble is bad if you can help it. At least it is
> disconcerting when you are flying autopilot and you touch the stick and it
> feels loose. Going with the dremel sanding drum either on a dremel or a die
> grinder will do the trick. It should also help with the clearance with the
> instrument panel, I would think, making sure the engagement is sufficient.
>
I agree with that. I remember not really thinking of it, then
about 100 hours ago I noticed it one smooth flight, and got
paranoid about the wobble. I inspected the linkages and didn't
see any issues, so decided to put it on the list to dig
into at a convenient time. When Vic flew it and noticed the
slop was worse than his, it got moved higher on the list,
so now it's done. It now is completely slop free, and the
controls are still smooth and light. Everything's very good,
and I know the steel parts are rubbing down there. It's
the little things that bring a smile sometimes. ;)
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:24 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.
>
> Good point Jesse. 2 additional comments...
>
> 1) I used a dremel tool sanding drum. Worked well to
> deal with the inside of the bore.
>
> 2) Regarding stick wobble/slop: I just dealt with this
> myself. I noticed I had a bit of looseness in the stick.
> At OSH I compared it to Vic's and he had some too. Over
> the last couple weeks I actually got rid of mine completely.
> Here's more...
>
> The source of the slop in my case was actually the OD of the
> BUSHING 065 x .375 x 2.313 shown on page 39-8. (see attached
> .jpg)
> Or more accurately, the sloppy hole in my WD-1011-L & R.
> The way bushings normally work, you want them to have one
> movable surface, the ID that rides on the removable bolt.
> You want the OD of the bushing to be fixed to the WD-1011
> somewhat. The AN4-27 bolt that holds the assembly together
> doesn't get cranked really tight, hence the castle nut. You
> want to trim the bushing so it's longer than the WD-10ll,
> but still fits in the mating part. If necessary, you trim
> the WD-1011 shorter. The slop in my case though was the OD
> of that bushing, as I mentioned. I could stick the bushing
> in, then stick the bolt through, and rock the bolt up and
> down slightly, feeling the slop. The reamed ID of the
> bushing was very snug on the bolt, but the OD was slopping
> around in the WD-1011.
>
> I fixed it by using a loctite product "Loctite quick metal
> 660" that I had sitting around from a previous bushing
> repair a couple years ago.
> http://www.chemicalcontacts.co.za/teroson/retainers.htm
> You could probably use many of the ones on this page.
> Basically, it just fills the gap and solidifies the
> bushing to the WD-1011, so it now pivots on the nicely
> fit bolt. When tightening the AN4-27, you just bring it
> up tight, then loosen it to the next castle, so it's
> not sloppy, but non-restrictive. Wala, no more stick slop.
>
> The only downside is in the ultra-ultra-long term when
> you want to replace the bushing. It'll be tight in the
> WD-1011, and will probably require you to drill out the
> bushing to the OD size so you can install a new one.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Jesse Saint wrote:
>> Ideally, you want the stick to fit in as far as possible, which means
>> using a round/half-round file to take down the inside of the weld so it
>> fits. You could also use a sanding drum thats a little smaller than
>> the stick to take it down. Usually it is just a couple of burrs in
>> there keeping it from going further. On our sticks I think we got about
>> or a little more of the unpainted portion inside. The more you have
>> sticking down inside the more strength you will have, and the less
>> likely you will have a wobble in your stick, which is something I have
>> noticed in a number of -10s out there, both flying and in progress.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jesse Saint
>>
>> I-TEC, Inc.
>>
>> jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
>>
>> www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
>>
>> W: 352-465-4545
>>
>> C: 352-427-0285
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Niko
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2006 10:25 AM
>> *To:* Matronics
>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have been trying to insert the Control Stick into the Control Base
>> this morning. I am not sure how much engagement is needed between the
>> two. Right now the control stick only goes about as far as the weld
>> between the two tubes in the Base. A little less than half of the
>> unpainted portion of the control stick is not engaged. Does this sound
>> correct?
>>
>>
>>
>> By the way it took about 2 hrs of working on the inside of the Control
>> Base tubes to get the Control Stick to fit inside it.
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Niko
>>
>> 40188
>>
>> *
>>
>> href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
>> href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
>> href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
>> href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref
> "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navi
> gator?RV10-List
>> *
>>
>> -- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM -- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM
>>
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued |
When other type clubs do this, it is usually limited to around 30
pilots, with 10-15 instructors on the flying days, so that each pilot
gets 3-4 total flying hours, broken into 2 sessions, and Wings, BFR
and IPC certificates as appropriate. I think that is what is needed to
get any insurance recognition.
On 11/20/06, John Jessen <jjessen@rcn.com> wrote:
>
> Deems, my post on this topic was a lame attempt at humor, as you know. Just
> to make sure, in case the humor was not obvious, I want you to know that I
> am very much in favor of this and am willing to put time towards it, so
> count me in. I won't have a flying -10 for awhile, but that won't stop me
> from helping out.
>
> I agree. Start slow and work your way to larger.
>
> John Jessen
>
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:35 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued
>
>
> To all who've responded to this thread so far:
>
> Thank you for your responses. As Patrick, John and others have pointed out,
> accomplishing something like this is NOT a minor undertaking. I don't doubt
> for a moment, the amount of work that would be required to put something
> like this together, with 40% (+/- 90%) more to go on my own project, I'm
> also not misleading myself into thinking this is something I could/would do
> alone or in my own spare time. However, I am willing to put some of the
> evening time that I spend (along with others
> time) browsing the boards/lists/websites into developing something that
> could be of significant value to our community. There is enough anecdotal
> evidence so far to suggest that the REAL value is there. As Patrick pointed
> out the biggest value, is a fleet of safety conscious pilots and aircraft.
> And while this is _First and Foremost_ a Safety and Proficiency idea, It
> doesn't rule out having some fun and enjoyment. It also doesn't have to be
> built and implemented in a way that requires us to build and eat the whole
> elephant at once, perhaps a phased approach is possible?
>
> In order for this idea/concept to work, it will have to have a LOT of
> support from the RV-10 community, as it would be entirely voluntary, there
> are no compulsory 'enforcement' actions that can be taken other than to
> withhold some type of certification. It would also require availability and
> commitment of some particular skills (CFI/CFII), that I for one don't have.
> (may encourage me to get another rating! :-) ) So with all of that said,
> the 1st item is to determine what , how much of an interest there is in a
> program like this, its easy to respond to an e-mail, and although I've
> received 10 + positive responses to the idea, that's not yet enough (1.5%)
> in my opinion to make a GO commitment.
> However it is encouraging enough to continue with the step of determining
> what kind of an interest there might be in such an event.
>
> Apart from this mail list, does anyone else have any additional ideas on how
> to survey the RV-10 group? I see that Rick S. and Bob K. have received. (If
> I can figure out how to do it I might put up a survey page on my web site,
> for those bashful folks who aren't as vocal on the mail
> list)
>
> IF, (big IF) there is enough interest, I'm thinking the next step would be
> to form an advisory group that would help to specify the mission, establish
> the scope, set priorities, outline a curriculum, establish governance, etc.
> Some of you have indicated an willingness.desire to contribute, I'll
> assemble a list of potential contributors and the skill set/expertise that
> may be available. If you don't want to respond on-line send me a not offline
> to register your interest.
>
> One of the suggestions was to broaden the concept to the whole RV community.
> My prior life experience taught me that as the size/complexity of the
> effort increases, the risk of failure increases exponentially. So I'm
> inclined to focus on this group (RV-10) for starters. If we can make a go of
> it, then it could be exported to a wider community.
>
> Please keep the suggestions/alternatives/input coming I have learned that
> the electronic/distributed community is indeed a synergistic organism and
> there is much more knowledge and expertise out here than I could ever hope
> to acquire in my lifetime.
>
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
> >*
> >*
> >
>
>
> --
> 6:48 AM
>
>
> --
> 6:48 AM
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued |
The humor was duly noted ( and appreciated)
Deems
John Jessen wrote:
>
>Deems, my post on this topic was a lame attempt at humor, as you know. Just
>to make sure, in case the humor was not obvious, I want you to know that I
>am very much in favor of this and am willing to put time towards it, so
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Teetering on the edge |
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away
two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
whether to jump off)
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Teetering on the edge |
It all depends on how many airplanes you want to build!
-Jim 40384
do not archive
Pierre Levy wrote:
> I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
> week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took
> away two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
> aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
> Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
> build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
> that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
>
>
>
> Pierre Levy
> EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
> whether to jump off)
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Teetering on the edge |
Pierre,
You will hone and use the same skills in either one. The
real question, I believe, is do you need/want a four place
or a two place airplane?
Kevin
40494
empennage
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Pierre Levy" <pierre@danieljofriel.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
>I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway
>this week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful
>, and I took away two essential points. First, I damaged a
>lot of perfectly good aluminum, and my technique is going
>to need a lot of refinement. Second, it's going to take a
>long, long time to build a 10. Is the build time for a
>two-seater significantly less? Should I start with that?
>Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
>
>
>
>Pierre Levy
>EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and
>wondering whether to jump off)
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Teetering on the edge |
Personally I think an RV-7/9 would take about the same amount of time,
and possibly more. The RV-8 may be in the same ballpark too now
with it's matched-hole kit. I seriously doubt you'd save more than
a small percentage of time, and in fact you may need more time.
The RV-10 kit goes together pretty quickly and has plans that are
2nd to none despite the small issues. FWIW, I finished my RV-10
in almost the same exact amount of hours that another local
builder finished his 9, and mine is more complex by far, plus
I did my own panel and paint and he outsourced his.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Pierre Levy wrote:
> I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
> week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away
> two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
> aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
> Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
> build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
> that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
>
>
>
> Pierre Levy
> EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
> whether to jump off)
>
> *
Message 28
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| Subject: | Teetering on the edge |
Don't jump, cause RV-10 builders are like lemmings. Patience is a
virtue and to my knowledge not even Dan has completed an RV-10 yet.
Having helped on 7s and 9s the scale is "Upscale" and worth the climb.
I have the utmost respect for those who have completed 10's cause they
are an exclusive group. I do miss James McClow though.
John - #600
________________________________
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Levy
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away
two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
whether to jump off)
Message 29
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| Subject: | Teetering on the edge |
Pierre,
Kevin speaks the wisdom here. Mission. Then go build. Some folks have
finished a QB -9 in less than a year. Others have taken considerably
longer. I believe the -10 is capable of being built and flown in less than
1.5 years. But I'll not come even close to that. However, four seats is my
desire, so I'm doing it. Mission. Then go build.
John Jessen
#40328 (buildus interruptus)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
kilopapa@antelecom.net
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
Pierre,
You will hone and use the same skills in either one. The real question, I
believe, is do you need/want a four place or a two place airplane?
Kevin
40494
empennage
----- Original Message Follows -----
From: "Pierre Levy" <pierre@danieljofriel.com>
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
>I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
>week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful , and I took
>away two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
>aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
>Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
>build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
>that?
>Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
>
>
>
>Pierre Levy
>EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
>whether to jump off)
>
--
6:48 AM
--
6:48 AM
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Teetering on the edge |
JUST DO IT!
----- Original Message -----
From: Pierre Levy
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 4:55 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away
two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
whether to jump off)
Message 31
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| Subject: | Teetering on the edge |
I say go for the -10. I am a first time builder, damaged a lot of perfectly
good al and have had a blast. I have a guy building a -9 a couple of
hangers away and I do not see much time difference.
Far as lemmings are concerned, I don't think they jump, they are pushed..I
don't want to push anyone out of this groups, but I agree that it all
depends on your mission...I don't think I would have gone the -10 route if I
did not need the two additional seats.
Rene' Felker
40322
Finish....or something like it.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
Don't jump, cause RV-10 builders are like lemmings. Patience is a virtue
and to my knowledge not even Dan has completed an RV-10 yet. Having helped
on 7s and 9s the scale is "Upscale" and worth the climb. I have the utmost
respect for those who have completed 10's cause they are an exclusive group.
I do miss James McClow though.
John - #600
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Levy
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this week-end in
Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away two essential
points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good aluminum, and my technique
is going to need a lot of refinement. Second, it's going to take a long,
long time to build a 10. Is the build time for a two-seater significantly
less? Should I start with that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for
your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering whether to
jump off)
<http://www.buildersbooks.com> www.buildersbooks.com
www.kitlog.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 32
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| Subject: | Teetering on the edge |
Pierre
As one of the newer additions to the building club I say just jump in.
The
water is fine. Trust me! Have I ever misled you before?
Actually, I don't think you can ever be fully ready to build except that
you
go into it with an open mind, a willingness to make mistakes, a
willingness
to learn and a desire to create something with your own hands.
Cheers.
Les Kearney
RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab / Rudder
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Levy
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
week-end in
Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away two
essential
points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good aluminum, and my
technique
is going to need a lot of refinement. Second, it's going to take a
long,
long time to build a 10. Is the build time for a two-seater
significantly
less? Should I start with that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks
for
your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
whether to
jump off)
Message 33
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| Subject: | A question for the list gods |
Hi
I keep telling myself to remember to put "do not archive" in most of my
posts but being a mere mortal I keep forgetting. Perhaps we can, by default
not archive an email unless it has a tag line something like "archive this
pearl of wisdom". <vbg>. Seriously, I suggest that by default nothing be
archived unless specifically marked otherwise.
Comments?
Les Kearney
RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab
Message 34
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| Subject: | Teetering on the edge |
A little anecdote that may help you decide.
My wife can talk the leg off an iron pot. I took her for a fly in C152.
We had been married for 20 years at that stage, and she said absolutely
nothing for 45 mins (first time ever!!!) - she was terrified. Not of my
flying, but she was claustraphobic in the two seat cabin. Took her in a
172, Warrior, Arrow etc and she was fine. When I said I was going to
build, the decision was simple - if it was a two seater, I would be
doing a lot of solo flying.
Don't believe what they say - size really DOES matter.
cheers,
Ron
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Levy
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away
two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
whether to jump off)
<http://www.buildersbooks.com> www.buildersbooks.com
www.kitlog.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
www.aeroelectric.com
www.buildersbooks.com
www.kitlog.com
www.homebuilthelp.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued |
Deems,
It's going to take a "champion" or small group of champions to keep this
great idea moving forward. Hope the group can pull it off. Not sure how
the Bonanza folks got it going but would guess they partly financed the
effort out of club membership dues and attendance fees.
Late responder,
Mark (N410MR Flying - Flew to paint shop today)
>From: Deems Davis <deemsdavis@cox.net>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006
>11:34:45 -0700
>
>
>To all who've responded to this thread so far:
>
>Thank you for your responses. As Patrick, John and others have pointed out,
>accomplishing something like this is NOT a minor undertaking. I don't
>doubt for a moment, the amount of work that would be required to put
>something like this together, with 40% (+/- 90%) more to go on my own
>project, I'm also not misleading myself into thinking this is something I
>could/would do alone or in my own spare time. However, I am willing to put
>some of the evening time that I spend (along with others time) browsing the
>boards/lists/websites into developing something that could be of
>significant value to our community. There is enough anecdotal evidence so
>far to suggest that the REAL value is there. As Patrick pointed out the
>biggest value, is a fleet of safety conscious pilots and aircraft. And
>while this is _First and Foremost_ a Safety and Proficiency idea, It
>doesn't rule out having some fun and enjoyment. It also doesn't have to be
>built and implemented in a way that requires us to build and eat the whole
>elephant at once, perhaps a phased approach is possible?
>
>In order for this idea/concept to work, it will have to have a LOT of
>support from the RV-10 community, as it would be entirely voluntary, there
>are no compulsory 'enforcement' actions that can be taken other than to
>withhold some type of certification. It would also require availability and
>commitment of some particular skills (CFI/CFII), that I for one don't have.
>(may encourage me to get another rating! :-) ) So with all of that said,
>the 1st item is to determine what , how much of an interest there is in a
>program like this, its easy to respond to an e-mail, and although I've
>received 10 + positive responses to the idea, that's not yet enough (1.5%)
>in my opinion to make a GO commitment. However it is encouraging enough to
>continue with the step of determining what kind of an interest there might
>be in such an event.
>
>Apart from this mail list, does anyone else have any additional ideas on
>how to survey the RV-10 group? I see that Rick S. and Bob K. have received.
>(If I can figure out how to do it I might put up a survey page on my web
>site, for those bashful folks who aren't as vocal on the mail list)
>
>IF, (big IF) there is enough interest, I'm thinking the next step would be
>to form an advisory group that would help to specify the mission, establish
>the scope, set priorities, outline a curriculum, establish governance, etc.
>Some of you have indicated an willingness.desire to contribute, I'll
>assemble a list of potential contributors and the skill set/expertise that
>may be available. If you don't want to respond on-line send me a not
>offline to register your interest.
>
>One of the suggestions was to broaden the concept to the whole RV
>community. My prior life experience taught me that as the size/complexity
>of the effort increases, the risk of failure increases exponentially. So
>I'm inclined to focus on this group (RV-10) for starters. If we can make a
>go of it, then it could be exported to a wider community.
>
>Please keep the suggestions/alternatives/input coming I have learned that
>the electronic/distributed community is indeed a synergistic organism and
>there is much more knowledge and expertise out here than I could ever hope
>to acquire in my lifetime.
>
>
>Deems Davis # 406
>Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
>http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>>*
>>*
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces
friends module.
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: Teetering on the edge |
Mate fly them all and make your own mind up!!!
DO NOT ARCHIVE
kind regards Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: Rene Felker
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I say go for the -10. I am a first time builder, damaged a lot of
perfectly good al and have had a blast. I have a guy building a -9 a
couple of hangers away and I do not see much time difference.
Far as lemmings are concerned, I don't think they jump, they are
pushed..I don't want to push anyone out of this groups, but I agree that
it all depends on your mission...I don't think I would have gone the -10
route if I did not need the two additional seats.
Rene' Felker
40322
Finish....or something like it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:19 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
Don't jump, cause RV-10 builders are like lemmings. Patience is a
virtue and to my knowledge not even Dan has completed an RV-10 yet.
Having helped on 7s and 9s the scale is "Upscale" and worth the climb.
I have the utmost respect for those who have completed 10's cause they
are an exclusive group. I do miss James McClow though.
John - #600
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Levy
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:56 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away
two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
whether to jump off)
www.buildersbooks.comwww.kitlog.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matron
ics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-List
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Teetering on the edge |
Patience is a virtue and to my knowledge not even Dan has completed an
RV-10 yet
-----------------
Dan sold his kit earlier this year. He told me why in June but I forget
why- think he was having too much fun flying formation with his flying
(unpainted and to remain so for a while) RV
Pascal
----- Original Message -----
From: John W. Cox
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
Don't jump, cause RV-10 builders are like lemmings. Patience is a
virtue and to my knowledge not even Dan has completed an RV-10 yet.
Having helped on 7s and 9s the scale is "Upscale" and worth the climb.
I have the utmost respect for those who have completed 10's cause they
are an exclusive group. I do miss James McClow though.
John - #600
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Levy
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:56 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this
week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away
two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good
aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement.
Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the
build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with
that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering
whether to jump off)
www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.kitlog.comwww.homebuilthelp.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contributionhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?RV10-List
Message 38
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| Subject: | Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe |
For those of you who have installed (or are considering the installation
of) a 12 volt heated Pitot tube in your aircraft, could you please
provide me with an indication of what is being installed/considered out
there.
I am considering either the Gretz Aero GA-1000 or the Falcon (12-AN5812)
Pitot tubes or equivalent and would appreciate any feedback please.
Has anyone installed and flown their aircraft with an angle of attack
probe, if so which one and your thoughts regarding the device please.
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 39
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| Subject: | Teetering on the edge |
I have a friend building a -9, who started about 3 years ago or so. Some of the
pros I see are:
- cost is significantly less expensive. the kit is less. also, his new engine
was in the $20k price range from aerosport, for an IO-320, i think. he probably
also had a greater choice of engines to choose from, i believe. this may be just
because the -9 has been available longer - not sure.
the lycoming 540 is the most mentioned, and the only van's supported engine for
the -10. however, recently, i thought i just read that even angle-valve versions
are not feasible. i am too far away from choosing an engine to be much more
knowledgable about the subject.
- plane is much smaller, which is attractive from a build perspective for
space-challenged workspaces.
- smaller parts means fewer edges and holes to deburr, fewer rivets to set, and
a faster build time, let's say if you could start both models in some parallel
universe.
- finally, a tailwheel version is available!!!
As far as cons go:
- his plans came in 2 separate parts: instructions and diagrams. Not sure if the
current plans are the same. The integrated -10 plans are definitely much nicer
to work with.
Personally, i still would not change, at least not yet. We'll see once my bank
account has fewer zeroes in it! I just wanted to give you some other tradeoffs
to weigh in a decision, that i made myself a year ago.
Let us know what you decide!
Jae
#40533
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Levy
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this week-end in
Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away two essential
points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good aluminum, and my technique is
going to need a lot of refinement. Second, it's going to take a long, long time
to build a 10. Is the build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should
I
start with that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering whether to
jump off)
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Headliner Material - foam backed or plain? |
I'm looking for input, preferences, experience with headliner
material. It appears that the standard auto headliner is foam backed,
I can see plus's and minus's to this. What are people using or
considering and what sources have people found? I saw a Lancair interior
@ Osh that appeared to have a wool looking woven tweed fabric that
looked really smart. here's a link to a pic i took of it.
http://deemsrv10.com/album/OSHKOSH%202006/slides/DSC03138.html How are
folks attaching it to the Cabin top, Glue? Type? Is anybody making a
'backing board' like some auto installs?
Another related question, is whether it is worth it to install the
headliner with the Cabin Cover off and upside down, or just how much
harder it is to do with it already mounted on the canopy. I'd rather
wait until it's final/hard mounted and any painting that will be done is
complete. and then put the headliner in.
Appreciate any input.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 41
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| Subject: | Teetering on the edge |
Pierre,
Are you married? If so, 1) there has been a lot of spouse input on the
topic of building lately, and you can find it on Tim O's site, and 2) get
your spouse's input! I was going to build a Mustang II until my wife said,
"If you're going to build anything then it needs to have four seats." Yes
Ma'am!!!
If not married, then the best advice has already been given - 1) mission, 2)
build it!
Rob Wright
#392
No seats yet.
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Levy
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 3:56 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge
I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this week-end in
Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away two essential
points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good aluminum, and my technique
is going to need a lot of refinement. Second, it's going to take a long,
long time to build a 10. Is the build time for a two-seater significantly
less? Should I start with that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for
your comments.
Pierre Levy
EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering whether to
jump off)
Message 42
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| Subject: | A question for the list gods |
Les, this has been discussed before and Matt chimes in to say that text
archives very small, don't worry about forgetting. Keep advancing in your
posting and it'll come to mind when you obviously don't want to archive
something.
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 6:07 PM
Subject: RV10-List: A question for the list gods
Hi
I keep telling myself to remember to put "do not archive" in most of my
posts but being a mere mortal I keep forgetting. Perhaps we can, by default
not archive an email unless it has a tag line something like "archive this
pearl of wisdom". <vbg>. Seriously, I suggest that by default nothing be
archived unless specifically marked otherwise.
Comments?
Les Kearney
RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab
Message 43
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| Subject: | Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe |
It'll be hard to beat the Gretz for price and performance. It's an
experimental only pitot, but it's a "smart" pitot tube. Other pitots throw
raw amperage to the tube, which after a while wastes the energy on heat and
can overheat if forgotten in dry, VMC air. For a very comparable price, the
Gretz warms the pitot to about 100 degrees F, and then through a circuit
board reduces the energy to maintain the temp at about 100. There is an LED
board to let you know status of the tube at any time, and the instructions
are about middle of the road for simplicity. Of course, I like things
spelled out very simply though.
Read more about it on Gretz's and Tim O's sites.
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Pulis
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe
For those of you who have installed (or are considering the installation of)
a 12 volt heated Pitot tube in your aircraft, could you please provide me
with an indication of what is being installed/considered out there.
I am considering either the Gretz Aero GA-1000 or the Falcon (12-AN5812)
Pitot tubes or equivalent and would appreciate any feedback please.
Has anyone installed and flown their aircraft with an angle of attack probe,
if so which one and your thoughts regarding the device please.
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide, South Australia
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: A question for the list gods |
Actually Les, that's a good idea. Maybe Matt has a reason to default it
this way. You could make a 'signature file' and put 'do not archive' in
it. But that would surly confuse those to who you email outside the lists!!!
Linn
Les Kearney wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I keep telling myself to remember to put "do not archive" in most of
> my posts but being a mere mortal I keep forgetting. Perhaps we can, by
> default not archive an email unless it has a tag line something like
> "archive this pearl of wisdom". <vbg>. Seriously, I suggest that by default nothing
be archived unless
> specifically marked otherwise.
>
>
>
> Comments?
>
>
>
> Les Kearney
>
> RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab
>
>
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Front seats hard to slide |
Jesse, I haven't talked to Van's yet, but intend to do so.
I was hoping someone had experienced similar problems and solved them alread
y.
Mine slide ok for a while after lubing them up, then they go back to very
hard to move again, even with me sitting in them. Pulling forward is obviou
sly
the hardest to do.
grumpy
In a message dated 11/20/2006 8:23:27 AM Central Standard Time,
jesse@itecusa.org writes:
Grumpy,
Of the 6 seats I have installed and worked with, only one of them was hard t
o
slide. I noticed that it was actually easier to slide with a person sitting
in it than without, because you can get the leverage needed. Pushing back i
s
easiest, because you can push with your feet. Pulling forward is harder, bu
t
you can grab the bar and pull, which makes it easier. Overall, I don
=99t think
it is every seat. I don=99t know if it has to do with the installatio
n of the
rails, the plastic slides on the bottom of the seat, or the rails being
not-perfectly-straight to start with. Were your rails extremely hard to ins
tall? I
have noticed that some are and some aren=99t.
So, in answer to your question, I don=99t know what to say except that
not all
seats are hard to slide, so you apparently just got lucky.twice. I
t has also
been my experience that they get easier to slide with use, not harder. But,
we can=99t let our experience dictate truth, they just illustrate it,
so saying
the seats are hard to slide or easy to slide as truth isn=99t accurate
. There
has to be some explanation why some slide easily and some hard. Have you
talked to Van=99s or Oregon Aero?
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
http://www.itecusa.org/
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: A question for the list gods |
Please _don't_ put the "do n*t archive" in your signature file! That seems like
a great idea, except that a lot of good stuff doesn't get archived then. Maybe
the original post may or may not belong in the archive, but perhaps the 5
follow up responses did and because the string was found at the bottom, none of
it gets archived.
A couple of people have asked about reversing the logic of the DNA so that you
put something like "please archive" instead. This has been tried and resulted
in exactly one message a month getting archived. That's not too good.
Please don't make too big a deal out of this DNA thing. Its just a simple tool
I implemented to easily keep obviously useless messages out of the archive.
Disk space is cheap these days, and CPU horsepower is up too, so keeping the archives
to an absolute minimum isn't so important anymore. That being said, keeping
the useless posts out of the archives to improve searching capability is
still a good idea. Don't sweat it; just use good discretion.
Thanks!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
At 06:05 PM 11/20/2006 Monday, you wrote:
>Actually Les, that's a good idea. Maybe Matt has a reason to default it this
way. You could make a 'signature file' and put 'do not archive' in it. But that
would surly confuse those to who you email outside the lists!!!
>Linn
>
>
>Les Kearney wrote:
>>Hi
>>
>>I keep telling myself to remember to put do n*t archive in most of my posts but
being a mere mortal I keep forgetting. Perhaps we can, by default not archive
an email unless it has a tag line something like archive this pearl of wisdom.
<vbg>. Seriously, I suggest that by default nothing be archived unless specifically
marked otherwise.
>>
>>Comments?
>>
>>Les Kearney
>>RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab
>>
>
>
>Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
>925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
>http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Front seats hard to slide |
I just looked at N415EC today and the same seat that was hard to move
before still is. I thought it was loosening up, but it appears not to be.
Let me know what Van's says (although they probably won't offer much in
the way of an explanation). They might refer you to Oregon Aero. If they
consider the seat defective, then it might be RMA'able. They might just
say, "grease it and deal with it."
Jesse
> Jesse, I haven't talked to Van's yet, but intend to do so.
>
> I was hoping someone had experienced similar problems and solved them
> already.
>
> Mine slide ok for a while after lubing them up, then they go back to very
> hard to move again, even with me sitting in them. Pulling forward is
> obviously
> the hardest to do.
>
> grumpy
>
> In a message dated 11/20/2006 8:23:27 AM Central Standard Time,
> jesse@itecusa.org writes:
> Grumpy,
>
> Of the 6 seats I have installed and worked with, only one of them was hard
> to
> slide. I noticed that it was actually easier to slide with a person
> sitting
> in it than without, because you can get the leverage needed. Pushing back
> is
> easiest, because you can push with your feet. Pulling forward is harder,
> but
> you can grab the bar and pull, which makes it easier. Overall, I dont
> think
> it is every seat. I dont know if it has to do with the installation of
> the
> rails, the plastic slides on the bottom of the seat, or the rails being
> not-perfectly-straight to start with. Were your rails extremely hard to
> install? I
> have noticed that some are and some arent.
>
> So, in answer to your question, I dont know what to say except that not
> all
> seats are hard to slide, so you apparently just got lucky.twice. It
> has also
> been my experience that they get easier to slide with use, not harder.
> But,
> we cant let our experience dictate truth, they just illustrate it, so
> saying
> the seats are hard to slide or easy to slide as truth isnt accurate.
> There
> has to be some explanation why some slide easily and some hard. Have you
> talked to Vans or Oregon Aero?
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> http://www.itecusa.org/
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
>
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Message 48
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| Subject: | RV10 PSP Proficienty & Safety Program Objectives -Draft |
If I'm taking up too much bandwidth with this let me know, But I felt
the need to get something short concise and written that would serve to
guide efforts as we go down this path. Some call these Mission
statements, I took a crack at drafting an Objective statement the
intent is the same. If this program is built to meet/suit the needs of
the RV10 community, the communities feedback and input in crafting this
is essential. Please review and critique it, rip it apart, modify it,
and improve it in any way you think will add value or clarify what we
are attempting to do, I'm pretty thick skinned and won't take offense at
any input. I'll digest everything I receive and publish an update when
the input dries up. If we have conflicting input we'll put it back to
the group for a tie breaker. I want to make it clear that I'm not trying
to take ownership of this or to stake out any turf, I'm probably the
least qualified person to tackle something like this, based upon
information that I've seen/received from several, there are many who
have impressive credentials in the area of aviation and safety arena and
are more qualified. So the floor is open for nominations.
I included a VERY high level outline of how we might go about some of
the next steps. Please note there are no time frames on anything at
this point (contradicts my background, but suits my present reality,
which is to make it Fun and not Work) My expectation is that building
this could take months/years. If we can get a community consensus on
Objective, Program Components/Elements and Priorities, we can break
the development and implementation into incremental steps.
Thanks for the interest expressed thus far and any suggestions going forward
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Re: Headliner Material - foam backed or plain? |
Deems,
I use 1/4" foam back auto type headliner attached using 3M 90 high temp
cement glue. It comes in 1/8" also. I attached after the cabin top was
installed. I'm quite happy with mine. Tim Olson used the same but didn't
like it if I remember correctly. He ended up ripping his out. He also
installed his prior to installing the cabin top. I think there are pluses
and minus either way.
Anh
#141
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deems Davis" <deemsdavis@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 8:09 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Headliner Material - foam backed or plain?
>
>
>
> I'm looking for input, preferences, experience with headliner material.
> It appears that the standard auto headliner is foam backed, I can see
> plus's and minus's to this. What are people using or considering and what
> sources have people found? I saw a Lancair interior @ Osh that appeared to
> have a wool looking woven tweed fabric that looked really smart. here's a
> link to a pic i took of it.
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/OSHKOSH%202006/slides/DSC03138.html How are
> folks attaching it to the Cabin top, Glue? Type? Is anybody making a
> 'backing board' like some auto installs?
>
> Another related question, is whether it is worth it to install the
> headliner with the Cabin Cover off and upside down, or just how much
> harder it is to do with it already mounted on the canopy. I'd rather wait
> until it's final/hard mounted and any painting that will be done is
> complete. and then put the headliner in.
>
> Appreciate any input.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
Message 50
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|
| Subject: | Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base. |
I may be wrong but I think the bushing was designed to be captive. They
purposefully made it longer than the weld mount to tighten under the bolt. I
have the same slop, but I'm just replacing the weld mount, being careful to
maintain a tight press fit between the sick and bushing.....
Steve
4005
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:24 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.
>
> Good point Jesse. 2 additional comments...
>
> 1) I used a dremel tool sanding drum. Worked well to
> deal with the inside of the bore.
>
> 2) Regarding stick wobble/slop: I just dealt with this
> myself. I noticed I had a bit of looseness in the stick.
> At OSH I compared it to Vic's and he had some too. Over
> the last couple weeks I actually got rid of mine completely.
> Here's more...
>
> The source of the slop in my case was actually the OD of the
> BUSHING 065 x .375 x 2.313 shown on page 39-8. (see attached
> .jpg)
> Or more accurately, the sloppy hole in my WD-1011-L & R.
> The way bushings normally work, you want them to have one
> movable surface, the ID that rides on the removable bolt.
> You want the OD of the bushing to be fixed to the WD-1011
> somewhat. The AN4-27 bolt that holds the assembly together
> doesn't get cranked really tight, hence the castle nut. You
> want to trim the bushing so it's longer than the WD-10ll,
> but still fits in the mating part. If necessary, you trim
> the WD-1011 shorter. The slop in my case though was the OD
> of that bushing, as I mentioned. I could stick the bushing
> in, then stick the bolt through, and rock the bolt up and
> down slightly, feeling the slop. The reamed ID of the
> bushing was very snug on the bolt, but the OD was slopping
> around in the WD-1011.
>
> I fixed it by using a loctite product "Loctite quick metal
> 660" that I had sitting around from a previous bushing
> repair a couple years ago.
> http://www.chemicalcontacts.co.za/teroson/retainers.htm
> You could probably use many of the ones on this page.
> Basically, it just fills the gap and solidifies the
> bushing to the WD-1011, so it now pivots on the nicely
> fit bolt. When tightening the AN4-27, you just bring it
> up tight, then loosen it to the next castle, so it's
> not sloppy, but non-restrictive. Wala, no more stick slop.
>
> The only downside is in the ultra-ultra-long term when
> you want to replace the bushing. It'll be tight in the
> WD-1011, and will probably require you to drill out the
> bushing to the OD size so you can install a new one.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Jesse Saint wrote:
> > Ideally, you want the stick to fit in as far as possible, which means
> > using a round/half-round file to take down the inside of the weld so it
> > fits. You could also use a sanding drum thats a little smaller than
> > the stick to take it down. Usually it is just a couple of burrs in
> > there keeping it from going further. On our sticks I think we got about
> > or a little more of the unpainted portion inside. The more you have
> > sticking down inside the more strength you will have, and the less
> > likely you will have a wobble in your stick, which is something I have
> > noticed in a number of -10s out there, both flying and in progress.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jesse Saint
> >
> > I-TEC, Inc.
> >
> > jesse@itecusa.org <mailto:jesse@itecusa.org>
> >
> > www.itecusa.org <http://www.itecusa.org>
> >
> > W: 352-465-4545
> >
> > C: 352-427-0285
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Niko
> > *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2006 10:25 AM
> > *To:* Matronics
> > *Subject:* RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement into Control Stick Base.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been trying to insert the Control Stick into the Control Base
> > this morning. I am not sure how much engagement is needed between the
> > two. Right now the control stick only goes about as far as the weld
> > between the two tubes in the Base. A little less than half of the
> > unpainted portion of the control stick is not engaged. Does this sound
> > correct?
> >
> >
> >
> > By the way it took about 2 hrs of working on the inside of the Control
> > Base tubes to get the Control Stick to fit inside it.
> >
> >
> >
> > thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > Niko
> >
> > 40188
> >
> > *
> >
> > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
> > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
> > href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
> > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
> >
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chre
> f="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-
> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> >
> > *
> >
> > -- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM -- Release Date: 11/20/2006 6:48 AM
> >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
>
> --
> 11/20/2006
>
>
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| Subject: | Headliner Material - foam backed or plain? |
Deems, the foam prevents bleedthrough of the adhesive and helps hide surface
imperfections. On foam backed headliner we use sprayable contact cement or
landau top glue(same)the foam really makes it idiot proof. On thinner
materials, I use 3m trim adhesive in thin lines overhead, and 3m super 77
aerosol sprayed thin on the peripheral. If the glue wicks into the material
it creates hard dark spots.....try miamicorp.com for materials, just drop me
an email if you need wholesale acct info. You can buy on mine and dropship
to yourself if you see what you need.
Steve
40205
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis
> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 8:09 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Headliner Material - foam backed or plain?
>
>
> I'm looking for input, preferences, experience with headliner
> material. It appears that the standard auto headliner is foam backed,
> I can see plus's and minus's to this. What are people using or
> considering and what sources have people found? I saw a Lancair interior
> @ Osh that appeared to have a wool looking woven tweed fabric that
> looked really smart. here's a link to a pic i took of it.
> http://deemsrv10.com/album/OSHKOSH%202006/slides/DSC03138.html How are
> folks attaching it to the Cabin top, Glue? Type? Is anybody making a
> 'backing board' like some auto installs?
>
> Another related question, is whether it is worth it to install the
> headliner with the Cabin Cover off and upside down, or just how much
> harder it is to do with it already mounted on the canopy. I'd rather
> wait until it's final/hard mounted and any painting that will be done is
> complete. and then put the headliner in.
>
> Appreciate any input.
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 11/20/2006
>
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