---------------------------------------------------------- RV10-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/21/06: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:55 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot (Wayne Edgerton) 2. 06:07 AM - Re: Control Stick Engagement (Scott Gesele) 3. 06:07 AM - Re: Control Stick Engagement (Scott Gesele) 4. 06:14 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued (Wayne Edgerton) 5. 06:47 AM - Re: RV10 PSP Proficienty & Safety Program Objectives -Draft (Lloyd, Daniel R.) 6. 07:04 AM - Re: Teetering on the edge (Doerr, Ray R [NTK]) 7. 07:22 AM - RV10PSP - stay away from 'Builder' (Deems Davis) 8. 10:54 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued again! (linn Walters) 9. 11:08 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot (Chris Stanley) 10. 11:18 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued again! (Kelly McMullen) 11. 11:46 AM - Re: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot (John Cram) 12. 01:07 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe (rv10builder) 13. 01:36 PM - insurance (linn Walters) 14. 02:58 PM - Re: insurance (Rob Kermanj) 15. 03:19 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe (Rob Wright) 16. 04:11 PM - Re: insurance (Mark Ritter) 17. 04:39 PM - Re: insurance (Chris Johnston) 18. 05:24 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe (Larry Rosen) 19. 05:41 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe (Deems Davis) 20. 05:44 PM - Re: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe (thanks!) (rv10builder) 21. 05:59 PM - Re: insurance (Mark Ritter) 22. 06:21 PM - Re: Trim cables question (johngoodman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:28 AM PST US From: "Wayne Edgerton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot Deems, I really like your idea on training and forums. I owned a Bonanza and then a Baron for quite a few years and each year I would attend American Bonanza Society recurrent training sessions held in different locations each year and they were absolutely great. By going to different locations it kept my wife interested because she got a new place to shop :>} They would put on some great forums on a multitude of aviation subjects, weather, maintenance, regs,etc. We would also go out with seasoned instructors for training and they would then do your bi-annual write off, but in my case, because I went each year, it would end up being annual. Boy with all the airline pilots with RV's I would think we could get some good instructors for these events. We had one year where we went to Colorado Springs and they put on a mountain flying coarse which I thoroughly enjoyed. We flew into Aspen and into Leadville, which is the highest airport in North America at 9927 ft. They perform a little different at those altitudes. Also they would put on a pinch hitter coarse for those flying with us, usually our wife's, where they would teach them about flying and where they could help out in the process. For instance teaching them about the "sterile cockpit" during critical parts of the flight. On the side I also had my wife take flight instructions just on the basics on how to control and land the plane in case she ever had to. I thought this is something that could be taught at one of these types of gatherings while the pilots were in a forum. I know the wife's seemed to enjoy these sessions. Someone suggested tagging it on to an event like Sun-N-Fun. The only problem I see with that is that those are very congested airspaces during those events and it would possible add a certain level of danger to it. Also unless a person were to extend their time you would have to cut short that event to attend the RV events. Anyway I think it's a great idea which would promote camaraderie amongst the RV crowd and also serve a great service of recurrent training, which I know that I need. Wayne Edgerton #40336 do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:49 AM PST US From: Scott Gesele Subject: Re: RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement > Time: 09:24:05 AM PST US > From: Tim Olson > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement > into Control Stick Base. > > Good point Jesse. 2 additional comments... > > 1) I used a dremel tool sanding drum. Worked well > to > deal with the inside of the bore. > > 2) Regarding stick wobble/slop: I just dealt with > this > myself. I noticed I had a bit of looseness in the > stick. > At OSH I compared it to Vic's and he had some too. > Over > the last couple weeks I actually got rid of mine > completely. > Here's more... > > The source of the slop in my case was actually the > OD of the > BUSHING 065 x .375 x 2.313 shown on page 39-8. (see > attached > .jpg) > Or more accurately, the sloppy hole in my WD-1011-L > & R. > The way bushings normally work, you want them to > have one > movable surface, the ID that rides on the removable > bolt. > You want the OD of the bushing to be fixed to the > WD-1011 > somewhat. The AN4-27 bolt that holds the assembly > together > doesn't get cranked really tight, hence the castle > nut. You > want to trim the bushing so it's longer than the > WD-10ll, > but still fits in the mating part. If necessary, > you trim > the WD-1011 shorter. The slop in my case though was > the OD > of that bushing, as I mentioned. I could stick the > bushing > in, then stick the bolt through, and rock the bolt > up and > down slightly, feeling the slop. The reamed ID of > the > bushing was very snug on the bolt, but the OD was > slopping > around in the WD-1011. > > I fixed it by using a loctite product "Loctite quick > metal > 660" that I had sitting around from a previous > bushing > repair a couple years ago. > http://www.chemicalcontacts.co.za/teroson/retainers.htm > You could probably use many of the ones on this > page. > Basically, it just fills the gap and solidifies the > bushing to the WD-1011, so it now pivots on the > nicely > fit bolt. When tightening the AN4-27, you just > bring it > up tight, then loosen it to the next castle, so it's > not sloppy, but non-restrictive. Wala, no more > stick slop. > > The only downside is in the ultra-ultra-long term > when > you want to replace the bushing. It'll be tight in > the > WD-1011, and will probably require you to drill out > the > bushing to the OD size so you can install a new one. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD Flying Tim, Let me get this straight, you basically glued the brass bushing into the control stick and installed this assembly with a reduced torque on the bolt? What did Vans say about your modifications to the primary flight controls on the aircraft? The control stick is designed to rotate on the brass bushing and the bushing must be captured firmly in the main weldment. Right now, all of your wear will be at the end of the brass bushing (remember your nose gear spacers). When this does wear down, you will have steel on steel. In the original design, the bushing is longer than WD-1011L or R. It is this difference that results in some minor slop, but it also produced a space that eliminated any steel on steel wear. As time goes on, you will lose this size differential. If your bearing did not fit properly in the stick weldment, then something was not right. I have installed these components on both an RV-6A and RV-10. In both aircraft, there was not any play between the bearing and weldment. It sound like one of your parts may not be within tolerance. Its your airplane and you are the manufacturer, so install it however you want. I strongly encourage anyone who is thinking about modifying any critical system to run the modification by the designer of the aircraft. Instrument panels, interiors, paint, etc are open for personal creativeness, primary flight controls are not. Scott Gesele N506RV Flying RV-6A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:49 AM PST US From: Scott Gesele Subject: Re: RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement > Time: 09:24:05 AM PST US > From: Tim Olson > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Control Stick Engagement > into Control Stick Base. > > Good point Jesse. 2 additional comments... > > 1) I used a dremel tool sanding drum. Worked well > to > deal with the inside of the bore. > > 2) Regarding stick wobble/slop: I just dealt with > this > myself. I noticed I had a bit of looseness in the > stick. > At OSH I compared it to Vic's and he had some too. > Over > the last couple weeks I actually got rid of mine > completely. > Here's more... > > The source of the slop in my case was actually the > OD of the > BUSHING 065 x .375 x 2.313 shown on page 39-8. (see > attached > .jpg) > Or more accurately, the sloppy hole in my WD-1011-L > & R. > The way bushings normally work, you want them to > have one > movable surface, the ID that rides on the removable > bolt. > You want the OD of the bushing to be fixed to the > WD-1011 > somewhat. The AN4-27 bolt that holds the assembly > together > doesn't get cranked really tight, hence the castle > nut. You > want to trim the bushing so it's longer than the > WD-10ll, > but still fits in the mating part. If necessary, > you trim > the WD-1011 shorter. The slop in my case though was > the OD > of that bushing, as I mentioned. I could stick the > bushing > in, then stick the bolt through, and rock the bolt > up and > down slightly, feeling the slop. The reamed ID of > the > bushing was very snug on the bolt, but the OD was > slopping > around in the WD-1011. > > I fixed it by using a loctite product "Loctite quick > metal > 660" that I had sitting around from a previous > bushing > repair a couple years ago. > http://www.chemicalcontacts.co.za/teroson/retainers.htm > You could probably use many of the ones on this > page. > Basically, it just fills the gap and solidifies the > bushing to the WD-1011, so it now pivots on the > nicely > fit bolt. When tightening the AN4-27, you just > bring it > up tight, then loosen it to the next castle, so it's > not sloppy, but non-restrictive. Wala, no more > stick slop. > > The only downside is in the ultra-ultra-long term > when > you want to replace the bushing. It'll be tight in > the > WD-1011, and will probably require you to drill out > the > bushing to the OD size so you can install a new one. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD Flying Tim, Let me get this straight, you basically glued the brass bushing into the control stick and installed this assembly with a reduced torque on the bolt? What did Vans say about your modifications to the primary flight controls on the aircraft? The control stick is designed to rotate on the brass bushing and the bushing must be captured firmly in the main weldment. Right now, all of your wear will be at the end of the brass bushing (remember your nose gear spacers). When this does wear down, you will have steel on steel. In the original design, the bushing is longer than WD-1011L or R. It is this difference that results in some minor slop, but it also produced a space that eliminated any steel on steel wear. As time goes on, you will lose this size differential. If your bearing did not fit properly in the stick weldment, then something was not right. I have installed these components on both an RV-6A and RV-10. In both aircraft, there was not any play between the bearing and weldment. It sound like one of your parts may not be within tolerance. Its your airplane and you are the manufacturer, so install it however you want. I strongly encourage anyone who is thinking about modifying any critical system to run the modification by the designer of the aircraft. Instrument panels, interiors, paint, etc are open for personal creativeness, primary flight controls are not. Scott Gesele N506RV Flying RV-6A Degrees online in as fast as 1 Yr MBA, Bachelor's, Master's, Assoc http://yahoo.degrees.info ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:31 AM PST US From: "Wayne Edgerton" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued When you attended a Bonanza Society event there was a fee to cover the expenses they incurred. You can take a look at their format by going to this web address. http://www.bppp.org/ Wayne Edgerton #40336 do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:17 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: RV10 PSP Proficienty & Safety Program Objectives -Draft From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." Looks good for a first pass, one suggestion is to separate flying/ maintaining from building. While I understand most of us on this list and who would be attending will be builders, there will eventually be many people who bought and are flying, and I would not want to exclude them because they thought it was a builders course? Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 10:57 PM Subject: RV10-List: RV10 PSP Proficienty & Safety Program Objectives -Draft If I'm taking up too much bandwidth with this let me know, But I felt the need to get something short concise and written that would serve to guide efforts as we go down this path. Some call these Mission statements, I took a crack at drafting an Objective statement the intent is the same. If this program is built to meet/suit the needs of the RV10 community, the communities feedback and input in crafting this is essential. Please review and critique it, rip it apart, modify it, and improve it in any way you think will add value or clarify what we are attempting to do, I'm pretty thick skinned and won't take offense at any input. I'll digest everything I receive and publish an update when the input dries up. If we have conflicting input we'll put it back to the group for a tie breaker. I want to make it clear that I'm not trying to take ownership of this or to stake out any turf, I'm probably the least qualified person to tackle something like this, based upon information that I've seen/received from several, there are many who have impressive credentials in the area of aviation and safety arena and are more qualified. So the floor is open for nominations. I included a VERY high level outline of how we might go about some of the next steps. Please note there are no time frames on anything at this point (contradicts my background, but suits my present reality, which is to make it Fun and not Work) My expectation is that building this could take months/years. If we can get a community consensus on Objective, Program Components/Elements and Priorities, we can break the development and implementation into incremental steps. Thanks for the interest expressed thus far and any suggestions going forward Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: Teetering on the edge From: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" I've built both a RV-9A and a RV-10. It took me 2 yr and 7 months to the finish the 9 in 1863 hours. It was painted except for the cowl and the wheel pants were not completed. My RV-10 was finished in 1 yr and 10 months for a total of 2200 hours with no paint or wheel pants. Both of these projects were slow build. I can say first hand that the 10 has a lot more rivets and a lot more structure to complete. As you can see the 10 took about 400 more hours and this was after all the experience I gained from building the 9 first. Both the 9 and 10 are both fully matched hole so it is really going to come down to "do you need 2 seats or four seat" or to just want all the extra space to haul things like camping gear, golf clubs etc. I have to tell you, I love flying the 10 even if I fly it alone. It handles so nice and if I don't care about speed, I fly at 20" at 2,000 rpm and burn 8.0 - 8.5 GPH at any altitude for that $100 hamburger or to the nearest airport to grab breakfast. Thank You Ray Doerr N519RV (40250) Flying 175 hours and counting. Almost ready for IFR checkride in my RV-10. Pierre Levy wrote: > I attended the RV assembly workshop taught by Dan Checkoway this > week-end in Watsonville. Very informative and helpful, and I took away > two essential points. First, I damaged a lot of perfectly good > aluminum, and my technique is going to need a lot of refinement. > Second, it's going to take a long, long time to build a 10. Is the > build time for a two-seater significantly less? Should I start with > that? Thinking maybe the RV-9A? Many thanks for your comments. > > > > Pierre Levy > EAA 767961 (Teetering on the edge of the precipice, and wondering > whether to jump off) > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:53 AM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: RV10-List: RV10PSP - stay away from 'Builder' Dan great input, I received a similar suggestion from Patrick, There are a number of people already focused on the building process and I'm not sure we can/should try to add anything there, probably should stay focused on the flying / maintaining safely objective. Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote: > >Looks good for a first pass, one suggestion is to separate flying/ >maintaining from building. While I understand most of us on this list >and who would be attending will be builders, there will eventually be >many people who bought and are flying, and I would not want to exclude >them because they thought it was a builders course? >Dan > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:54:40 AM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued again! There still is a fee: Pricing Full Course Tuition Ground School ONLY (no flying) Dukes $1495 $747 Bonanzas, Barons, Travel Airs: $1295 $647 Non-Pilot Companion Course $165 Not sure where the fees go. Maybe to offset expenses of the instructors and course material. I polled my Grumman groups for some insight and knowledge, but all we have there is an owner that's doing AOPA air safety seminars. Looks like emulating the BO society's approach will go a long way to helping RV (10) drivers live longer! I applaud the group taking a proactive approach to the safety problem. It should pay off well in the future. Linn Wayne Edgerton wrote: > When you attended a Bonanza Society event there was a fee to cover the > expenses they incurred. You can take a look at their format by going > to this web address. > > http://www.bppp.org/ > > > Wayne Edgerton #40336 > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:08:57 AM PST US From: "Chris Stanley" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot I'd like to suggest taking that thought one step further on some other issues. As more and more -10's get in the air, it seems that the pool ought to be getting big enough for us to see some performance trends on the aircraft built by amateurs. What about starting an area where those who complete "x" number of hours of flight testing report performance of their aircraft based upon a standard, published testing criteria? If somebody who knows what they are talking about (that would not be me) in terms of setting up a standard testing program, and then explaining how to accurately implement it to us non-math majors, this might work. We could then have an area where we could post the results. If we do the tests uniformly and honestly post the results, we could begin to develop some numbers of the -10 from non-professional builders. That would really help new builders in terms of what they can reasonably expect and what they should aspire to. Builders who've flown off their hours and then add any speed mods could also have an objective standard on expected performance. I've seen performance results posted here and there in the past, as well as the inevitable follow-ups questioning the builder's methods of data collection. Obviously, it's not practical to go the very best route; one person performing the same set of performance tests on all the planes, but if we had a standard program each builder could take their new plane through, and then report the results, we could minimize the subjective bias in the data as much as possible. Those of you who have some knowledge about this, post your thoughts and maybe we can develop something that everyone can start using. I have been reading this listserv for about a year now, and still can't figure out the method to the madness. Once I send this post, it disappears into the ether, and I don't see it again until I stumble across it while doing my usual reading. Therefore, if you want to post back to the list, it might be helpful to also copy me if you want me to repond. Matt, if there is an archive walking us through how to more effectively use the list, let me know. Do not archive. (I put that in because I see everyone else doing it --- I have no idea the reason for doing so. I am a sheep blindly following the herd. Is a group of sheep called a herd? a clutch? a pride? ) Christopher Stanley www.christopherstanley.com Christopher Stanley & Associates, P.C. 1104 Rock Street Georgetown, Texas 78626 Phone: (512) 869-7566 Fax: (512) 869-8312 NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail message is legally privileged and confidential, intended for the use of the individual(s) or entities listed above. If the reader of this electronic mail message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this electronic mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please immediately notify us by telephone and destroy this message. Thank you for your consideration. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:16 AM PST US From: "Kelly McMullen" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP -Continued again! The Mooney MAPA SF PPP operates about the same schedule, 2.5 days of ground and flight instruction, 12 hours classroom, 4 hours flying, for $795. They don't recover full cost at that price and depend on some donations. They also charge the same for a new owner of a $40K, 45 yr old Mooney as the new owner of a $400K glass panel new Mooney. That generates some heated arguments. At least with the RV-10 you are talking about pretty similar airframes with about the same powerplants, with most of the variation likely in the instrument panel equipment. And they will all be relatively new. You may want to think about minimum requirements of flight experience, getting rider for the instructor's coverage from the insurer of the owner's policy, what preflight inspection of the aircraft you want, to protect the "organization" and the instructor. I don't think you want it to be transition training, or if so, someone would have to provide the aircraft and instructor, and probably should be a separate course. On 11/21/06, linn Walters wrote: > > There still is a fee: > Pricing > > *Full Course* > *Tuition* > > *Ground School ONLY (no flying)* > > Dukes > > $1495 > > > $747 > > Bonanzas, Barons, Travel Airs: > > $1295 > > > $647 > > Non-Pilot Companion Course > > $165 > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:59 AM PST US From: "John Cram" Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot Flock I believe John-N721JC (reserved) 40569-emp ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Stanley To: rv10-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:07 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: RV-10 PAPSP (Pilot I'd like to suggest taking that thought one step further on some other issues. As more and more -10's get in the air, it seems that the pool ought to be getting big enough for us to see some performance trends on the aircraft built by amateurs. What about starting an area where those who complete "x" number of hours of flight testing report performance of their aircraft based upon a standard, published testing criteria? If somebody who knows what they are talking about (that would not be me) in terms of setting up a standard testing program, and then explaining how to accurately implement it to us non-math majors, this might work. We could then have an area where we could post the results. If we do the tests uniformly and honestly post the results, we could begin to develop some numbers of the -10 from non-professional builders. That would really help new builders in terms of what they can reasonably expect and what they should aspire to. Builders who've flown off their hours and then add any speed mods could also have an objective standard on expected performance. I've seen performance results posted here and there in the past, as well as the inevitable follow-ups questioning the builder's methods of data collection. Obviously, it's not practical to go the very best route; one person performing the same set of performance tests on all the planes, but if we had a standard program each builder could take their new plane through, and then report the results, we could minimize the subjective bias in the data as much as possible. Those of you who have some knowledge about this, post your thoughts and maybe we can develop something that everyone can start using. I have been reading this listserv for about a year now, and still can't figure out the method to the madness. Once I send this post, it disappears into the ether, and I don't see it again until I stumble across it while doing my usual reading. Therefore, if you want to post back to the list, it might be helpful to also copy me if you want me to repond. Matt, if there is an archive walking us through how to more effectively use the list, let me know. Do not archive. (I put that in because I see everyone else doing it --- I have no idea the reason for doing so. I am a sheep blindly following the herd. Is a group of sheep called a herd? a clutch? a pride? ) Christopher Stanley www.christopherstanley.com Christopher Stanley & Associates, P.C. 1104 Rock Street Georgetown, Texas 78626 Phone: (512) 869-7566 Fax: (512) 869-8312 NOTICE: The information contained in this electronic mail message is legally privileged and confidential, intended for the use of the individual(s) or entities listed above. If the reader of this electronic mail message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copy of this electronic mail message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail message in error, please immediately notify us by telephone and destroy this message. Thank you for your consideration. www.aeroelectric.com www.buildersbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:41 PM PST US From: rv10builder Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe Along that same theme....what type of tubing should we (or can we) use with the Gretz? Rob Wright wrote: > > Itll be hard to beat the Gretz for price and performance. Its an > experimental only pitot, but its a smart pitot tube. Other pitots > throw raw amperage to the tube, which after a while wastes the energy > on heat and can overheat if forgotten in dry, VMC air. For a very > comparable price, the Gretz warms the pitot to about 100 degrees F, > and then through a circuit board reduces the energy to maintain the > temp at about 100. There is an LED board to let you know status of the > tube at any time, and the instructions are about middle of the road > for simplicity. Of course, I like things spelled out very simply though. > > Read more about it on Gretzs and Tim Os sites. > > Rob Wright > > #392 > > Fuse > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Pulis > *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2006 7:03 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe > > For those of you who have installed (or are considering the > installation of) a 12 volt heated Pitot tube in your aircraft, could > you please provide me with an indication of what is being > installed/considered out there. > > I am considering either the Gretz Aero GA-1000 or the Falcon > (12-AN5812) Pitot tubes or equivalent and would appreciate any > feedback please. > > Has anyone installed and flown their aircraft with an angle of attack > probe, if so which one and your thoughts regarding the device please. > > Regards > > Patrick Pulis > > Adelaide, South Australia > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > *www.aeroelectric.com* > *www.kitlog.com * > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:06 PM PST US From: linn Walters Subject: RV10-List: insurance Those of you with flying airplanes: How much are you paying for insurance??? I need to know how much/year and how much hull coverage. I'm comparing the RV-10 to the Grumman AA-5 series, which really doesn't compare because of their wimpy engines, but inquiring minds want to know!!! linn do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:01 PM PST US From: Rob Kermanj Subject: Re: RV10-List: insurance $2400 per yr. for (I think) $120,000 hull coverage and liability from Falcon. I think the rate varies greatly with experience. do not archive Rob Kermanj On Nov 21, 2006, at 4:35 PM, linn Walters wrote: > > > Those of you with flying airplanes: How much are you paying for > insurance??? I need to know how much/year and how much hull > coverage. I'm comparing the RV-10 to the Grumman AA-5 series, which > really doesn't compare because of their wimpy engines, but > inquiring minds want to know!!! > linn > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:19:42 PM PST US From: "Rob Wright" Subject: RE: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe It's in the instructions, not sure if they're available on Gretz's site. You can use either aluminum or "plastic" tubing, a la SafeAir. Instructions say that if you use the plastic-type tubing to use a short run of metal tubing before changing to the plastic. I used the 6" metal run built into the Gretz pitot before I connected the plastic tubing. Rob Wright #392 Fuse - soundproofing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe Along that same theme....what type of tubing should we (or can we) use with the Gretz? Rob Wright wrote: > > It'll be hard to beat the Gretz for price and performance. It's an > experimental only pitot, but it's a "smart" pitot tube. Other pitots > throw raw amperage to the tube, which after a while wastes the energy > on heat and can overheat if forgotten in dry, VMC air. For a very > comparable price, the Gretz warms the pitot to about 100 degrees F, > and then through a circuit board reduces the energy to maintain the > temp at about 100. There is an LED board to let you know status of the > tube at any time, and the instructions are about middle of the road > for simplicity. Of course, I like things spelled out very simply though. > > Read more about it on Gretz's and Tim O's sites. > > Rob Wright > > #392 > > Fuse > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Pulis > *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2006 7:03 PM > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe > > For those of you who have installed (or are considering the > installation of) a 12 volt heated Pitot tube in your aircraft, could > you please provide me with an indication of what is being > installed/considered out there. > > I am considering either the Gretz Aero GA-1000 or the Falcon > (12-AN5812) Pitot tubes or equivalent and would appreciate any > feedback please. > > Has anyone installed and flown their aircraft with an angle of attack > probe, if so which one and your thoughts regarding the device please. > > Regards > > Patrick Pulis > > Adelaide, South Australia > > * * > * * > ** > ** > ** > *www.aeroelectric.com* > *www.kitlog.com * > ** > ** > ** > ** > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* > * * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:14 PM PST US From: "Mark Ritter" Subject: Re: RV10-List: insurance $3,000 for $150,000 hull coverage and liability thru Falcon. Mark (N410MR) >From: Rob Kermanj >To: rv10-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV10-List: insurance >Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:57:07 -0500 > >$2400 per yr. for (I think) $120,000 hull coverage and liability from >Falcon. I think the rate varies greatly with experience. > >do not archive >Rob Kermanj > > >On Nov 21, 2006, at 4:35 PM, linn Walters wrote: > >> >>Those of you with flying airplanes: How much are you paying for >>insurance??? I need to know how much/year and how much hull coverage. >>I'm comparing the RV-10 to the Grumman AA-5 series, which really doesn't >>compare because of their wimpy engines, but inquiring minds want to >>know!!! >>linn >>do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> > _________________________________________________________________ Share your latest news with your friends with the Windows Live Spaces friends module. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV10-List: insurance From: "Chris Johnston" All replying about insurance costs - Would it be indiscreet to include your total hours and ratings along with your premium? I think it would help gauge things a bit... cj #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:43 PM PST US From: Larry Rosen Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe From the Gretz Instructions (thanks to those that sent them to me): To plumb the tubing to the airspeed indicator to the pitot tube, the builder can use either the plastic type of instrument tube or aluminum tube. If the aluminum tube is used, not the "additional parts needed" list at the top of this sheet. The builder will need to flair both the tube from the pitot and the tube coming from the panel. Connect these together by using the parts listed. Additional parts needed from another source (for attaching pitot tube to aluminum line 1 each AN 815-4D union for flared tubes 2 each AN 818-4D nut 2 each AN 819-4D sleeve As you would expect builders are using both aluminum tube (as per the plans) and plastic tubing. Larry #356 Rob Wright wrote: > > It's in the instructions, not sure if they're available on Gretz's site. > You can use either aluminum or "plastic" tubing, a la SafeAir. Instructions > say that if you use the plastic-type tubing to use a short run of metal > tubing before changing to the plastic. I used the 6" metal run built into > the Gretz pitot before I connected the plastic tubing. > > Rob Wright > #392 > Fuse - soundproofing > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:06 PM > To: rv10-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe > > > Along that same theme....what type of tubing should we (or can we) use > with the Gretz? > > Rob Wright wrote: > >> It'll be hard to beat the Gretz for price and performance. It's an >> experimental only pitot, but it's a "smart" pitot tube. Other pitots >> throw raw amperage to the tube, which after a while wastes the energy >> on heat and can overheat if forgotten in dry, VMC air. For a very >> comparable price, the Gretz warms the pitot to about 100 degrees F, >> and then through a circuit board reduces the energy to maintain the >> temp at about 100. There is an LED board to let you know status of the >> tube at any time, and the instructions are about middle of the road >> for simplicity. Of course, I like things spelled out very simply though. >> >> Read more about it on Gretz's and Tim O's sites. >> >> Rob Wright >> >> #392 >> >> Fuse >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick Pulis >> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2006 7:03 PM >> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >> *Subject:* RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe >> >> For those of you who have installed (or are considering the >> installation of) a 12 volt heated Pitot tube in your aircraft, could >> you please provide me with an indication of what is being >> installed/considered out there. >> >> I am considering either the Gretz Aero GA-1000 or the Falcon >> (12-AN5812) Pitot tubes or equivalent and would appreciate any >> feedback please. >> >> Has anyone installed and flown their aircraft with an angle of attack >> probe, if so which one and your thoughts regarding the device please. >> >> Regards >> >> Patrick Pulis >> >> Adelaide, South Australia >> >> * * >> * * >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *www.aeroelectric.com* >> *www.kitlog.com * >> ** >> ** >> ** >> ** >> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >> * * >> * >> >> >> * >> > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:06 PM PST US From: Deems Davis Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe I've got a copy of the instructions on my site: http://deemsrv10.com/album/Gretz%20Instructioins/index.html Deems Davis # 406 Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! ) http://deemsrv10.com/ Rob Wright wrote: > >It's in the instructions, not sure if they're available on Gretz's site. > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:41 PM PST US From: rv10builder Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack Probe (thanks!) Thanks Larry & Rob! Brian #40308 http://www.mykitlog.com/rv10builder do not archive Larry Rosen wrote: > > From the Gretz Instructions (thanks to those that sent them to me): > To plumb the tubing to the airspeed indicator to the pitot tube, the > builder can use either the plastic type of instrument tube or aluminum > tube. If the aluminum tube is used, not the "additional parts needed" > list at the top of this sheet. The builder will need to flair both > the tube from the pitot and the tube coming from the panel. Connect > these together by using the parts listed. > > Additional parts needed from another source (for attaching pitot tube > to aluminum line > 1 each AN 815-4D union for flared tubes > 2 each AN 818-4D nut > 2 each AN 819-4D sleeve > > As you would expect builders are using both aluminum tube (as per the > plans) and plastic tubing. > > Larry > #356 > > > Rob Wright wrote: >> >> It's in the instructions, not sure if they're available on Gretz's site. >> You can use either aluminum or "plastic" tubing, a la SafeAir. >> Instructions >> say that if you use the plastic-type tubing to use a short run of metal >> tubing before changing to the plastic. I used the 6" metal run built >> into >> the Gretz pitot before I connected the plastic tubing. >> >> Rob Wright >> #392 >> Fuse - soundproofing >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv10builder >> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:06 PM >> To: rv10-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack >> Probe >> >> >> Along that same theme....what type of tubing should we (or can we) >> use with the Gretz? >> >> Rob Wright wrote: >> >>> It'll be hard to beat the Gretz for price and performance. It's an >>> experimental only pitot, but it's a "smart" pitot tube. Other pitots >>> throw raw amperage to the tube, which after a while wastes the >>> energy on heat and can overheat if forgotten in dry, VMC air. For a >>> very comparable price, the Gretz warms the pitot to about 100 >>> degrees F, and then through a circuit board reduces the energy to >>> maintain the temp at about 100. There is an LED board to let you >>> know status of the tube at any time, and the instructions are about >>> middle of the road for simplicity. Of course, I like things spelled >>> out very simply though. >>> >>> Read more about it on Gretz's and Tim O's sites. >>> >>> Rob Wright >>> >>> #392 >>> >>> Fuse >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Patrick >>> Pulis >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 20, 2006 7:03 PM >>> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com >>> *Subject:* RV10-List: Heated Pitot Tube Selection & Angle of Attack >>> Probe >>> >>> For those of you who have installed (or are considering the >>> installation of) a 12 volt heated Pitot tube in your aircraft, could >>> you please provide me with an indication of what is being >>> installed/considered out there. >>> >>> I am considering either the Gretz Aero GA-1000 or the Falcon >>> (12-AN5812) Pitot tubes or equivalent and would appreciate any >>> feedback please. >>> >>> Has anyone installed and flown their aircraft with an angle of >>> attack probe, if so which one and your thoughts regarding the device >>> please. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> Patrick Pulis >>> >>> Adelaide, South Australia >>> >>> * * >>> * * >>> ** >>> ** >>> ** >>> *www.aeroelectric.com* >>> *www.kitlog.com * >>> ** >>> ** >>> ** >>> ** >>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List* >>> * * >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > . > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:14 PM PST US From: "Mark Ritter" Subject: RE: RV10-List: insurance Not at all. 1200 hours PIC, instrument rating. 800 hours complex time (Bonanza and Piper Lance). Have insured with Falcon for 20+ years. $3,000 for $150,000 hull coverage and liability. Mark >From: "Chris Johnston" >To: >Subject: RE: RV10-List: insurance >Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 16:38:35 -0800 > > >All replying about insurance costs - > >Would it be indiscreet to include your total hours and ratings along >with your premium? I think it would help gauge things a bit... > >cj >#40410 >fuse >www.perfectlygoodairplane.net > > _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:58 PM PST US Subject: RV10-List: Re: Trim cables question From: "johngoodman" Tim(at)MyRV10.com wrote: > ..... Just try some things...maybe start withcheap poly tubing, and see what fits over the threaded end well. > > Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying > do not archive > > > > > > > Tim, > > That noise you hear is me slapping my forehead (g). Just something to fish with, but I took it for something special. As my wife says: > > > > "You're not too bright, I like that in a man." > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------- #40572 Empennage - Elevators almost done. 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