Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 11:22 AM - Rear fuse vents (Jay Brinkmeyer)
2. 11:28 AM - Average building time QB Wings (Michael Wellenzohn)
3. 11:30 AM - Baggage door lock install later? (Chris Johnston)
4. 11:42 AM - door proximty switch system (David McNeill)
5. 11:59 AM - Re: Rear fuse vents (Jesse Saint)
6. 12:09 PM - Re: Average building time QB Wings (jsmcgrew@aol.com)
7. 12:23 PM - Re: Baggage door lock install later? (Tim Olson)
8. 12:23 PM - Re: Average building time QB Wings (Tim Olson)
9. 12:30 PM - Eggenfellner (Les Kearney)
10. 12:32 PM - Re: door proximty switch system (Jesse Saint)
11. 01:10 PM - Re: door proximty switch system (David McNeill)
12. 01:13 PM - Re: door proximty switch system (David McNeill)
13. 01:27 PM - Re: Eggenfellner ()
14. 02:12 PM - Re: Rear fuse vents (Marcus Cooper)
15. 02:16 PM - Re: door proximity switch system (Marcus Cooper)
16. 02:22 PM - Re: Eggenfellner (Bill DeRouchey)
17. 02:23 PM - Re: Average building time for SB vs. QB fuselage (Les Kearney)
18. 02:24 PM - Re: door proximity switch system (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
19. 02:55 PM - Re: Eggenfellner (Les Kearney)
20. 03:00 PM - Re: door proximity switch system (David McNeill)
21. 03:13 PM - Re: door proximity switch system (Tim Olson)
22. 03:31 PM - Re: Eggenfellner (Tim Olson)
23. 03:59 PM - Re: door proximity switch system (Jesse Saint)
24. 04:19 PM - Re: Eggenfellner (James Hein)
25. 05:10 PM - Re: Eggenfellner ()
26. 05:50 PM - Band Saw (Bob Leffler)
27. 05:57 PM - Re: Band Saw ()
28. 06:03 PM - Yet More RV-10 Performance/Efficiency (Bill DeRouchey)
29. 07:02 PM - Re: Baggage door lock install later? (Rob Wright)
30. 07:07 PM - Re: Yet More RV-10 Performance/Efficiency (Tim Olson)
31. 07:11 PM - Re: Band Saw (Tim Olson)
32. 07:25 PM - Re: Eggenfellner (Kelly McMullen)
33. 08:28 PM - Re: Yet More RV-10 Performance/Efficiency (Marcus Cooper)
34. 08:40 PM - Re: Baggage door lock install later? (Marcus Cooper)
35. 09:06 PM - Re: Rear fuse vents (Steven DiNieri)
36. 09:21 PM - Re: Baggage door lock install later? (Steven DiNieri)
Message 1
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Anyone else besides me think that these are junk? $35K for a kit that has
cheesy, ugly, and (I'm thinking) less than useful vents. What have others done
at this point?
I'm thinking of riveting mine shut somehow and calling it good. How would these
possibly be opened from inside? (not?).
Van, are you listening?
Jay
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Average building time QB Wings |
Hello all,
I expect my QB wings to be delivered next tuesday and I am wondering how many building
hours on average did you require to finish the wing.
I just need to know if it makes sence to file the fuselage order this month.
Cheers
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (tailcone)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78662#78662
Message 3
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| Subject: | Baggage door lock install later? |
hey all -
stupid question... you can install the baggage door lock later right?
you can fit it through the hole no problem? i don't have it in my hand
to be able to see, and i want to make sure i'm not screwing myself.
thanks!
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
do not archive
Message 4
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| Subject: | door proximty switch system |
If you have looked at the Vans supplied switches, reversing relays and
lights from Radio Shack, you might conclude that there is a better way.
The only thing to be used from the Vans kit is the rod magnet from the
RS 49-496 to be inserted in the door pins. By purchasing the RS 49-533
switch you can get a switch that will be open when the magnet is in
place. By wiring the switches for each side in parallel with each other
and in series with a small RED LED and fuse one can set the system to
show red anytime a door is open (switch is closed and LED is drawing
30ma).The RED lights goes out if and only if both pins are in position
on each door. Mine will wired to the hot side of the backup battery.
Mine will also be hooked in with a current sensing alarm system for the
aircraft. If anyone wants to see some pictures email me off the list.
Message 5
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Ugly - Extremely
Cheesy - Yes
Junk - Depends on what you mean
Useful - Extremely
Effective - Extremely
Kind of like the door handles and latching mechanism. It is quite ugly but
works very well. Some are putting some little handles on the inside to make
it easier to grab, but it is not hard to start with. It could use a little
deuglifying, but it does grab a LOT of air and is very functional. When
closed, it does not leak. If you seal them off, I think you will want to
put some other source of fresh air for the back seat because on a hot day
when you are low, it can be very stuffy and uncomfortable back there. The
front is the same way. The vents (if you sport for the $145 ones) work
great and provide a lot of air, but the placement could be much better and
it could look a lot better. Whatever you do, don't waste your money on the
$17 plastic vents. IMHO they are junk and IMExperience they leak when
closed and don't stay where you put them when opened.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Brinkmeyer
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Rear fuse vents
Anyone else besides me think that these are junk? $35K for a kit that has
cheesy, ugly, and (I'm thinking) less than useful vents. What have others
done
at this point?
I'm thinking of riveting mine shut somehow and calling it good. How would
these
possibly be opened from inside? (not?).
Van, are you listening?
Jay
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
now.
--
9:59 AM
--
9:59 AM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Average building time QB Wings |
I took my wings from QB delivery state to installed, wired, ready for flight in
about 2 weeks of work (full time). Not sure on the actual hours, but something
around: 14 days x 15 hours = 210 hours. I actually didn't do much to the wings
until the fuselage was ready for them. Based on the destruction at the QB
facility in the Philippines I'd suggest putting that QB Fuse order in promptly.
-Jim
40134 - Flying 70 hours+
-----Original Message-----
From: michael@wellenzohn.net
Sent: Sat, 2 Dec 2006 2:24 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Average building time QB Wings
Hello all,
I expect my QB wings to be delivered next tuesday and I am wondering how many
building hours on average did you require to finish the wing.
I just need to know if it makes sence to file the fuselage order this month.
Cheers
Michael
--------
RV-10 builder (tailcone)
#511
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78662#78662
________________________________________________________________________
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Baggage door lock install later? |
No problem doing it later. Carry on.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
> hey all -
>
> stupid question... you can install the baggage door lock later
> right? you can fit it through the hole no problem? i don't have it
> in my hand to be able to see, and i want to make sure i'm not
> screwing myself.
>
> thanks!
>
> cj
>
> #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Average building time QB Wings |
Probably 300-350 hours.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I expect my QB wings to be delivered next tuesday and I am wondering how many
building hours on average did you require to finish the wing.
>
> I just need to know if it makes sence to file the fuselage order this month.
>
> Cheers
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (tailcone)
> #511
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78662#78662
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Hi
While checking out the Eggenfellner site I noticed that he has delivered 14
RV10 engines thus far. I have seen only a couple of brief posts on the list
from last month. Does anyone have anything new to report?
Cheers
Les
#40643
Do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | door proximty switch system |
I agree that that way is an easier way, but I think Van=92s wanted to go
a
safer route. Your way, I assume you are running the ground wire from
the
LED through the switches, so it makes contact to ground when there is no
magnet because the switch is normally closed/open (whichever means that
it
completes the circuit ' closed, right?) and does not complete the
circuit
when the magnet is sensed. This way, if you have any wire come
disconnected, the LED stays OFF. If you have a failure in the system,
the
light stays off. With the relays, if you have a wire come loose, the
light
stays ON. Red light ON = danger. Red light OFF = no danger. I
think I
would rather have the light be ON when the door is closed if there is a
failure than the light be OFF when the door is open if there is a
failure.
While your way would be cheaper, easier, lighter, I think Van=92s did it
their
way on purpose. Thanks for the idea, though. I never looked into it,
but
like the fact that it can be done that way. I also realize the power is
so
low that the issue of the relay just using the contact to ground to know
when to turn the light off not using as much power as is going through
the
light circuit is not a real issue (does that sentence flow?). Your
design
would, however, work the same as Van=92s if the switch somehow moved and
was
not sensing the magnet when the pin was closed.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
HYPERLINK "mailto:jesse@itecusa.org"jesse@itecusa.org
HYPERLINK "http://www.itecusa.org"www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: door proximty switch system
If you have looked at the Vans supplied switches, reversing relays and
lights from Radio Shack, you might conclude that there is a better way.
The only thing to be used from the Vans kit is the rod magnet from the
RS
49-496 to be inserted in the door pins. By purchasing the RS 49-533
switch
you can get a switch that will be open when the magnet is in place. By
wiring the switches for each side in parallel with each other and in
series
with a small RED LED and fuse one can set the system to show red anytime
a
door is open (switch is closed and LED is drawing 30ma).The RED lights
goes
out if and only if both pins are in position on each door. Mine will
wired
to the hot side of the backup battery. Mine will also be hooked in with
a
current sensing alarm system for the aircraft. If anyone wants to see
some
pictures email me off the list.
"http://www.aeroelectric.com"www.aeroelectric.com
"http://www.buildersbooks.com"www.buildersbooks.com
"http://www.kitlog.com"www.kitlog.com
"http://www.homebuilthelp.com"www.homebuilthelp.com
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribut
ion
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List"http://www.matronics.com/Na
vig
ator?RV10-List
12/2/2006
9:59 AM
--
12/2/2006
9:59 AM
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: door proximty switch system |
One other thing , the LEDs are wired to the hot side of the back up
battery, so they are like a car interior light . Door open light on,
door closed light off. I also need the current flow as one of the
triggers of my alarm. The alarm will draw about 30ma from the backup
battery when armed and will have both current sensors and dual level
shock sensors.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door proximty switch system
I agree that that way is an easier way, but I think Van=92s wanted to
go a safer route. Your way, I assume you are running the ground wire
from the LED through the switches, so it makes contact to ground when
there is no magnet because the switch is normally closed/open (whichever
means that it completes the circuit ' closed, right?) and does not
complete the circuit when the magnet is sensed. This way, if you have
any wire come disconnected, the LED stays OFF. If you have a failure in
the system, the light stays off. With the relays, if you have a wire
come loose, the light stays ON. Red light ON = danger. Red light OFF
= no danger. I think I would rather have the light be ON when the
door is closed if there is a failure than the light be OFF when the door
is open if there is a failure. While your way would be cheaper, easier,
lighter, I think Van=92s did it their way on purpose. Thanks for the
idea, though. I never looked into it, but like the fact that it can be
done that way. I also realize the power is so low that the issue of the
relay just using the contact to ground to know when to turn the light
off not using as much power as is going through the light circuit is not
a real issue (does that sentence flow?). Your design would, however,
work the same as Van=92s if the switch somehow moved and was not sensing
the magnet when the pin was closed.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:41 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: door proximty switch system
If you have looked at the Vans supplied switches, reversing relays and
lights from Radio Shack, you might conclude that there is a better way.
The only thing to be used from the Vans kit is the rod magnet from the
RS 49-496 to be inserted in the door pins. By purchasing the RS 49-533
switch you can get a switch that will be open when the magnet is in
place. By wiring the switches for each side in parallel with each other
and in series with a small RED LED and fuse one can set the system to
show red anytime a door is open (switch is closed and LED is drawing
30ma).The RED lights goes out if and only if both pins are in position
on each door. Mine will wired to the hot side of the backup battery.
Mine will also be hooked in with a current sensing alarm system for the
aircraft. If anyone wants to see some pictures email me off the list.
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-List -- Date: 12/2/2006 9:59 AM
--
12/2/2006 9:59 AM
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: door proximty switch system |
The system gets checked visually each time you open a door (preflight
the aircraft and the red LEDS light). Its possible the ground wire from
either switch might become disconnected during flight and cause the
light to be off. but would be noticed at the next preflight. all wiring
is crimped ring terminals so a bad ground should be very rare. My plan
is to check the lights when doors are opened during preflight and then
during operation Red lights out, good to go.
I will also be wiring a resistor in parallel with the LED to increase
current flow to 60ma when a door is opened so that an alarm (if armed)
will sound when the door is opened.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jesse Saint
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:31 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door proximty switch system
I agree that that way is an easier way, but I think Van=92s wanted to
go a safer route. Your way, I assume you are running the ground wire
from the LED through the switches, so it makes contact to ground when
there is no magnet because the switch is normally closed/open (whichever
means that it completes the circuit ' closed, right?) and does not
complete the circuit when the magnet is sensed. This way, if you have
any wire come disconnected, the LED stays OFF. If you have a failure in
the system, the light stays off. With the relays, if you have a wire
come loose, the light stays ON. Red light ON = danger. Red light OFF
= no danger. I think I would rather have the light be ON when the
door is closed if there is a failure than the light be OFF when the door
is open if there is a failure. While your way would be cheaper, easier,
lighter, I think Van=92s did it their way on purpose. Thanks for the
idea, though. I never looked into it, but like the fact that it can be
done that way. I also realize the power is so low that the issue of the
relay just using the contact to ground to know when to turn the light
off not using as much power as is going through the light circuit is not
a real issue (does that sentence flow?). Your design would, however,
work the same as Van=92s if the switch somehow moved and was not sensing
the magnet when the pin was closed.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:41 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: door proximty switch system
If you have looked at the Vans supplied switches, reversing relays and
lights from Radio Shack, you might conclude that there is a better way.
The only thing to be used from the Vans kit is the rod magnet from the
RS 49-496 to be inserted in the door pins. By purchasing the RS 49-533
switch you can get a switch that will be open when the magnet is in
place. By wiring the switches for each side in parallel with each other
and in series with a small RED LED and fuse one can set the system to
show red anytime a door is open (switch is closed and LED is drawing
30ma).The RED lights goes out if and only if both pins are in position
on each door. Mine will wired to the hot side of the backup battery.
Mine will also be hooked in with a current sensing alarm system for the
aircraft. If anyone wants to see some pictures email me off the list.
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10
-List -- Date: 12/2/2006 9:59 AM
--
12/2/2006 9:59 AM
Message 13
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-Les:
I think that should read "about to deliver 14 RV-10 Engines". He has 14
engines sold, mine among them, for delivering in the December-January time
frame. To the best of my knowledge, the other engines sold for the RV-10,
are for '07 delivery. My -10 is a year or better away from flying, however,
I think Dan Lloyd is much closer, and will probably be the first RV-10 with
the Subaru engine to fly. I am, obviously, looking forward to the first
airplane to fly, and am expecting all the nay sayers to be suprised.
Steve Mills
RV-10 40486 Slow-build
Naperville, Illinois
finishing fuselage
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:30 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: Eggenfellner
Hi
While checking out the Eggenfellner site I noticed that he has delivered
14 RV10 engines thus far. I have seen only a couple of brief posts on the
list from last month. Does anyone have anything new to report?
Cheers
Les
#40643
Do not archive
Message 14
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FWIW I thought they were pretty ingenious and they work well. Perhaps I'm
easily impressed though.
Marcus
106TT, can't wait to get to 200!
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Brinkmeyer
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:16 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Rear fuse vents
Anyone else besides me think that these are junk? $35K for a kit that has
cheesy, ugly, and (I'm thinking) less than useful vents. What have others
done
at this point?
I'm thinking of riveting mine shut somehow and calling it good. How would
these
possibly be opened from inside? (not?).
Van, are you listening?
Jay
Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
now.
Message 15
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| Subject: | door proximity switch system |
After a minor incident with the doors, I've become very
conservative/concerned about them being closed. On my doors, the biggest
issue seems to be with the rear latches. It turns out someone sitting in
the rear seats can see the rod sticking through, and in the absence of a
rear passenger it's easy to reach back and feel the rod, jiggling the handle
slightly moves the rod and you can be sure you're feeling the correct thing.
Might not be an option for those with fancier interiors that hide this area.
Marcus
40286
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: door proximty switch system
If you have looked at the Vans supplied switches, reversing relays and
lights from Radio Shack, you might conclude that there is a better way.
The only thing to be used from the Vans kit is the rod magnet from the RS
49-496 to be inserted in the door pins. By purchasing the RS 49-533 switch
you can get a switch that will be open when the magnet is in place. By
wiring the switches for each side in parallel with each other and in series
with a small RED LED and fuse one can set the system to show red anytime a
door is open (switch is closed and LED is drawing 30ma).The RED lights goes
out if and only if both pins are in position on each door. Mine will wired
to the hot side of the backup battery. Mine will also be hooked in with a
current sensing alarm system for the aircraft. If anyone wants to see some
pictures email me off the list.
Message 16
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What is it the nay-sayers should be surprised about?
Sticking to the hard facts:
I am flying an RV-10 with the Lyc IO-540 260HP as Van recommends.
The power is wonderful. The reliability unquestionable. The engine is extremely
smooth. The engine drops into place with a proven installation.
If the issue is economy, and you consider the Lycoming thirsty, pull the throttle
out to 8.5 gph and the TAS will settle at 150mph true. When its time to fast
and far then climb up to 10-11K with full throttle and fuel flow will settle
to 12gph at 195mph true.
If the issue is power then consider I can takeoff with a very light load and
without crossing the end of a 4000' runway perform a hard, climbing turn (poor
mans Immelman) to downwind and settle at pattern altitude at mid-field. Or,
during my last cross-country we climbed with full tanks, 2 souls, and some baggage
from 7500 to 11500 in 4 minutes. Class B airspace? No worries.
Perhaps the issue is initial expense. If you are able to save money on the initial
engine installation then you will have an RV-10 that is worth that much
less when its time to sell. The number of RV-10 buyers for used aircraft with
an Egg engine could dance on the head of a pin. Buy Lycoming and the money is
only parked for a while and can be redeemed later upon sale.
Maybe the real issue is the Egg folks are rebels at heart. This is good as I
am a rebel myself. However, I don't mess with the airframe nor engine. You can
be a great rebel by painting the airframe in LSD rainbows or Playboy nudes. Tile
the inside. Pull out the back seats and install a shallow spa. Glass in a
row of upside down surfboard fins along the fuselage spine and paint sharks teeth
under the cowl. Go for it - I love creativity.
Maybe the issue is you hate Lycoming. Everybody has bad experiences. I can't
help you with this one.
So ... help me get it, but stick to facts.
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
Flying with a few pit stops
millstees@ameritech.net wrote:
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{ COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.EmailStyle17
{ COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1
} -Les:
I think that should read "about to deliver 14 RV-10 Engines". He has 14 engines
sold, mine among them, for delivering in the December-January time frame.
To the best of my knowledge, the other engines sold for the RV-10, are for '07
delivery. My -10 is a year or better away from flying, however, I think Dan
Lloyd is much closer, and will probably be the first RV-10 with the Subaru engine
to fly. I am, obviously, looking forward to the first airplane to fly, and
am expecting all the nay sayers to be suprised.
Steve Mills
RV-10 40486 Slow-build
Naperville, Illinois
finishing fuselage
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Eggenfellner
Hi
While checking out the Eggenfellner site I noticed that he has delivered 14 RV10
engines thus far. I have seen only a couple of brief posts on the list from
last month. Does anyone have anything new to report?
Cheers
Les
#40643
Do not archive
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
---------------------------------
Message 17
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| Subject: | Average building time for SB vs. QB fuselage |
Hi
Does anyone have estimates for QB vs. SB hours for the fuselage? Next on my
list is the fuse and I am trying to time ordering correctly. From what Van's
told me last week, they are running 2 mo for SB and 3 mo for QB fuse kits.
Inquiring minds need to know ...
Les Kearney
RV10 # 40643
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 1:24 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Average building time QB Wings
Probably 300-350 hours.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Michael Wellenzohn wrote:
<michael@wellenzohn.net>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I expect my QB wings to be delivered next tuesday and I am wondering how
many building hours on average did you require to finish the wing.
>
> I just need to know if it makes sence to file the fuselage order this
month.
>
> Cheers
> Michael
>
> --------
> RV-10 builder (tailcone)
> #511
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=78662#78662
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | door proximity switch system |
Yea make sure the damb doors are shut. It gets real draffy real fast :<(
Noel Simmons
325HP
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door proximity switch system
After a minor incident with the doors, I've become very
conservative/concerned about them being closed. On my doors, the biggest
issue seems to be with the rear latches. It turns out someone sitting in
the rear seats can see the rod sticking through, and in the absence of a
rear passenger it's easy to reach back and feel the rod, jiggling the handle
slightly moves the rod and you can be sure you're feeling the correct thing.
Might not be an option for those with fancier interiors that hide this area.
Marcus
40286
_____
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:41 PM
Subject: RV10-List: door proximty switch system
If you have looked at the Vans supplied switches, reversing relays and
lights from Radio Shack, you might conclude that there is a better way.
The only thing to be used from the Vans kit is the rod magnet from the RS
49-496 to be inserted in the door pins. By purchasing the RS 49-533 switch
you can get a switch that will be open when the magnet is in place. By
wiring the switches for each side in parallel with each other and in series
with a small RED LED and fuse one can set the system to show red anytime a
door is open (switch is closed and LED is drawing 30ma).The RED lights goes
out if and only if both pins are in position on each door. Mine will wired
to the hot side of the backup battery. Mine will also be hooked in with a
current sensing alarm system for the aircraft. If anyone wants to see some
pictures email me off the list.
www.aeroelectric.com
www.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
www.aeroelectric.com
Message 19
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Steve
I am intrigued by your decision to go with the Egg engine. Let me first
say
that my only a/c engine experience is behind a Lyc O-360 engine. I have
had
to deal with cylinder replacements, oil pump impellor ad's and hollow
crank
AD. Over the years I have seen many crankshaft ADs published for may
similar
engines. I am a bit worried that a shiny new IO-540 may be prone to
"manufacturing" problems as well. Aviation seems to be the only place
where
significant engine QC issues can become the owners problem. In my view
Ads
are no different from an auto manufacturers recall and the manufacturer
should be liable (but that is an entirely different rant).
The idea of a modern water cooled engine is appealing except that I
would be
concerned about post purchase support and maintenance. When I open the
hood
of my Honda Accord I just shake my head and hope I don't mix the
windshield
fluid and oil filler caps. I expect that this would be the same for a
Subaru engine. Are the Egg engines materially different from what you
would
find in a Subaru and how do you plan to deal with maintenance issues?
Parenthetically, I did have a 1994 Subaru Legend that had engine issues
when
an O2 sensor (*I think*) malfunctioned. I wouldn't want the same problem
in
the air. Then again I have had mag problems in the air so maybe the
risks
are level overall...
Your insights would be most appreciated.
Cheers
Les Kearney
#40643
PS: For the other flavours of Egg engines already in the air, have
predicted
performance stats been achieved?
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
millstees@ameritech.net
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Eggenfellner
-Les:
I think that should read "about to deliver 14 RV-10 Engines". He has 14
engines sold, mine among them, for delivering in the December-January
time
frame. To the best of my knowledge, the other engines sold for the
RV-10,
are for '07 delivery. My -10 is a year or better away from flying,
however,
I think Dan Lloyd is much closer, and will probably be the first RV-10
with
the Subaru engine to fly. I am, obviously, looking forward to the first
airplane to fly, and am expecting all the nay sayers to be suprised.
Steve Mills
RV-10 40486 Slow-build
Naperville, Illinois
finishing fuselage
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:30 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Eggenfellner
Hi
While checking out the Eggenfellner site I noticed that he has delivered
14
RV10 engines thus far. I have seen only a couple of brief posts on the
list
from last month. Does anyone have anything new to report?
Cheers
Les
#40643
Do not archive
href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com
href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com
href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com
href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/N
avi
gator?RV10-List
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: door proximity switch system |
I planned to use the "feel" method only but needed a means to trigger
and alarm so went ahead to install the switches but I will still "feel"
since I won't have the fully covered interior.
----- Original Message -----
From: Noel & Yoshie Simmons
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:23 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door proximity switch system
Yea make sure the damb doors are shut. It gets real draffy real fast
:<(
Noel Simmons
325HP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 3:16 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV10-List: door proximity switch system
After a minor incident with the doors, I've become very
conservative/concerned about them being closed. On my doors, the
biggest issue seems to be with the rear latches. It turns out someone
sitting in the rear seats can see the rod sticking through, and in the
absence of a rear passenger it's easy to reach back and feel the rod,
jiggling the handle slightly moves the rod and you can be sure you're
feeling the correct thing. Might not be an option for those with
fancier interiors that hide this area.
Marcus
40286
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:41 PM
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: door proximty switch system
If you have looked at the Vans supplied switches, reversing relays and
lights from Radio Shack, you might conclude that there is a better way.
The only thing to be used from the Vans kit is the rod magnet from the
RS 49-496 to be inserted in the door pins. By purchasing the RS 49-533
switch you can get a switch that will be open when the magnet is in
place. By wiring the switches for each side in parallel with each other
and in series with a small RED LED and fuse one can set the system to
show red anytime a door is open (switch is closed and LED is drawing
30ma).The RED lights goes out if and only if both pins are in position
on each door. Mine will wired to the hot side of the backup battery.
Mine will also be hooked in with a current sensing alarm system for the
aircraft. If anyone wants to see some pictures email me off the list.
www.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlog.com
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listwww.aeroelectric.comwww.kitlo
g.comhttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: door proximity switch system |
My wife has become just as ingrained as I have about checking the doors.
I check both visually, as a good look will be adequate to knowing
if they're OK, however she sometimes checks the pin on her side, and
both when she's in the rear. We stuck a vertical pad in over that
area, but it's still easy to stick a finger under the pad and feel it.
After the supposed 5 incidents that I heard about that happened before
last spring, it's a common check. I do intend to add the lights,
although probably make them miniatures, and I still intend to tie it
in with an alarm system....so if you're looking to steal some radios,
your time's running out if you want it to be easy and quiet.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Marcus Cooper wrote:
> After a minor incident with the doors, Ive become very
> conservative/concerned about them being closed. On my doors, the
> biggest issue seems to be with the rear latches. It turns out someone
> sitting in the rear seats can see the rod sticking through, and in the
> absence of a rear passenger its easy to reach back and feel the rod,
> jiggling the handle slightly moves the rod and you can be sure youre
> feeling the correct thing. Might not be an option for those with
> fancier interiors that hide this area.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> 40286
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner |
Hey Bill, I'm not going to join a pile-on about Subies. For the record
I basically agree, but still encourage anyone willing to step forth.
I personally wouldn't buy the finished plane because it isn't what
I'd want, but I meet others who would now and then. If the promises
deliver, I'd think it would be a viable "alternate" engine, but I would
doubt that in the end any of the benefits or deficits would be all
that big one way or another.
What I did want to do though was point out a couple more numbers. Just
today I took a prospective RV-10 buying family up for a demo flight...
that's 3 weekends in a row now. Dad's a retired TWA 767 captain, and
son flies little corporate jets. We stuck mom and son in the back
and climbed out at about 1900fpm thru somewhere in the 4000-5000'
range, and leveled out above a broken layer for some stick time. They
wanted flow numbers and I said to expect 13-14gph running ROP at
that altitude, but more like 10 by running LOP. I pulled it LOP
at reduced power at 6500' (don't usually do it below 8K), and we
quickly had our flow down and were truing at 166Kts True (I added
2 to my number since after testing I'm 2kts low in indication).
8.5gph is easy if you're willing to fly over 10K, and from Jesse's
experiences (they've flown higher on long trips than most of mine),
flows in the 7's aren't hard for them to get either.....If I were
seeing 12gph as you are, I know it would be rich-of-peak....so I
assume that must be how you cruise.
So it was a good little demo flight and the performance shows real
well....'specially this time of year up here. The part that gave
me the biggest kick was having both of the other non-flying pilots
tell me that the power in my panel was far better than in the
jets that either of them fly. It's truly amazing what the
21st century brought, and it's great to have it more available
to us builders than it even is to those who just want to plunk
down a wad of cash on a new certified plane.
I know that wasn't much subie/lyc stuff, and as I said, I don't
really care to pile on. But I do agree with you that the performance,
and reliability, and everything else in an engine is there for me,
so I'm very happy with that. What would be really cool though
is to see Dan's Subie come in as a good performer and light a fire
under the lyc clone companies to keep the competition level high
and bring everyone's price down.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> What is it the nay-sayers should be surprised about?
>
> Sticking to the hard facts:
>
> I am flying an RV-10 with the Lyc IO-540 260HP as Van recommends.
>
> The power is wonderful. The reliability unquestionable. The engine is
> extremely smooth. The engine drops into place with a proven installation.
>
> If the issue is economy, and you consider the Lycoming thirsty, pull the
> throttle out to 8.5 gph and the TAS will settle at 150mph true. When its
> time to fast and far then climb up to 10-11K with full throttle and fuel
> flow will settle to 12gph at 195mph true.
>
> If the issue is power then consider I can takeoff with a very light load
> and without crossing the end of a 4000' runway perform a hard, climbing
> turn (poor mans Immelman) to downwind and settle at pattern altitude at
> mid-field. Or, during my last cross-country we climbed with full tanks,
> 2 souls, and some baggage from 7500 to 11500 in 4 minutes. Class B
> airspace? No worries.
>
> Perhaps the issue is initial expense. If you are able to save money on
> the initial engine installation then you will have an RV-10 that is
> worth that much less when its time to sell. The number of RV-10 buyers
> for used aircraft with an Egg engine could dance on the head of a pin.
> Buy Lycoming and the money is only parked for a while and can
> be redeemed later upon sale.
>
> Maybe the real issue is the Egg folks are rebels at heart. This is good
> as I am a rebel myself. However, I don't mess with the airframe nor
> engine. You can be a great rebel by painting the airframe in LSD
> rainbows or Playboy nudes. Tile the inside. Pull out the back seats and
> install a shallow spa. Glass in a row of upside down surfboard fins
> along the fuselage spine and paint sharks teeth under the cowl. Go for
> it - I love creativity.
>
> Maybe the issue is you hate Lycoming. Everybody has bad experiences. I
> can't help you with this one.
>
> So ... help me get it, but stick to facts.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
> Flying with a few pit stops
>
> */millstees@ameritech.net/* wrote:
>
> -Les:
>
> I think that should read "about to deliver 14 RV-10 Engines". He
> has 14 engines sold, mine among them, for delivering in the
> December-January time frame. To the best of my knowledge, the other
> engines sold for the RV-10, are for '07 delivery. My -10 is a year
> or better away from flying, however, I think Dan Lloyd is much
> closer, and will probably be the first RV-10 with the Subaru engine
> to fly. I am, obviously, looking forward to the first airplane to
> fly, and am expecting all the nay sayers to be suprised.
>
> Steve Mills
> RV-10 40486 Slow-build
> Naperville, Illinois
> finishing fuselage
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Les
> Kearney
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:30 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Eggenfellner
>
> Hi
>
> While checking out the Eggenfellner site I noticed that he has
> delivered 14 RV10 engines thus far. I have seen only a couple of
> brief posts on the list from last month. Does anyone have
> anything new to report?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> #40643
> Do not archive
>
>
> * href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
>
>
>
> *
>
> **
>
>
> **
Message 23
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| Subject: | door proximity switch system |
For those using Dynon, you can connect the left and right door switches to
the Contact 1 and Contact 2 inputs and set them to be your warning system,
if you want to avoid the relays. I am sure other Engine Monitors/EFISes
have similar options.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: door proximity switch system
My wife has become just as ingrained as I have about checking the doors.
I check both visually, as a good look will be adequate to knowing
if they're OK, however she sometimes checks the pin on her side, and
both when she's in the rear. We stuck a vertical pad in over that
area, but it's still easy to stick a finger under the pad and feel it.
After the supposed 5 incidents that I heard about that happened before
last spring, it's a common check. I do intend to add the lights,
although probably make them miniatures, and I still intend to tie it
in with an alarm system....so if you're looking to steal some radios,
your time's running out if you want it to be easy and quiet.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Marcus Cooper wrote:
> After a minor incident with the doors, Ive become very
> conservative/concerned about them being closed. On my doors, the
> biggest issue seems to be with the rear latches. It turns out someone
> sitting in the rear seats can see the rod sticking through, and in the
> absence of a rear passenger its easy to reach back and feel the rod,
> jiggling the handle slightly moves the rod and you can be sure youre
> feeling the correct thing. Might not be an option for those with
> fancier interiors that hide this area.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> 40286
>
--
9:59 AM
--
9:59 AM
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner |
Perhaps I can explain my reasons for considering an Eggenfellner
powerplant for my RV-10
First of all, these are my opinions only, so DO NOT FLAME! It seems that
every time someone mentions a non-Lycoming powerplant, they get hammered
with responses that can be summed up as "If you don't use Lycoming,
there's something wrong with you".
I have my reasons, you have yours.
Here are my reasons:
1. $50,000 (approx) for a new Lycoming? I can't afford it. Used? I'd
rather not have to go researching about the life history and what's
needed (like a crank) to get the engine reliable. $27,000 or so for a
complete Eggenfellner FWF package is very competitive.
2. 230HP is more than enough for myself; I'm used to flying 152's for
heavens sake! Anything over 800FPM climb rate will please me.
3. Liquid cooling does have its advantages, including tighter
tolerances, almost no oil burning, no shock cooling, no complex baffling
because "#4 cylinder runs hot", etc.
4. Weight is almost the same as a Lycoming.
5. I do *all* the work on all my equipment, cars, engines, etc. I do not
want an A&P to touch it - They break enough things already :)
6. Mixture and prop control are pretty much all automatic; Less pilot
workload.
7. Rebuild cost is much less. What's a Lycoming rebuild cost - $20,000
? With the Eggenfellner, just replace the entire engine block, crank,
pistons, rings and all for around $3,000
8. I do not care about resale value. I am building this plane only for
myself to enjoy - NOT TO RESELL.
9. I can always remove an Eggenfellner and put a Lycoming in its place
(with a new engine mount) later. Nothing prevents you from switching
powerplants later.
10. The Eggenfellner engines are *extremely* smooth; Much less vibration.
11. Insurance costs are pretty much the same with the Eggenfellner
engine package as with Lycoming (due to Eggenfellner's reliable track
record)
Please don't bash those of us who are looking at alternatives; You
Lycoming people have your reasons for going with Lycoming, and we have
no problem with that.
-Jim 40384, Riveting bottom wing skins (slowly)
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Hey Bill, I'm not going to join a pile-on about Subies. For the record
> I basically agree, but still encourage anyone willing to step forth.
> I personally wouldn't buy the finished plane because it isn't what
> I'd want, but I meet others who would now and then. If the promises
> deliver, I'd think it would be a viable "alternate" engine, but I would
> doubt that in the end any of the benefits or deficits would be all
> that big one way or another.
Message 25
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|
I would like to second everything that Jim just said, and add a couple of
items to the discussion.
1. 2006 technology. They make more car engines in a year than all aircraft
engines ever made combined, so the R&D is far advanced.
2. I live in Illinois. Right now it is 20deg outside. If I wanted to go
fly a Lycoming, I would have to do a pre-heat...not necessary with a Subaru,
you just hit the starter and it goes, just like a car would.
3. I owned an Arrow, and had nothing but cylinder and crank problems, so I
am ready for a change to something reliable.
4. Parts come from Subaru, not Eggenfellner, so availibility is not a
problem, and do not have the inflated aviation cost.
5. It is turbo-charged, so even if there is a small power penalty compared
to the IO-540, it is more than made up as you climb...I'll still be
developing 220HP at 16,000 ft.
Steve Mills
RV-10 40486 Slow-build
Naperville, Illinois
finishing fuselage
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Hein
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Eggenfellner
Perhaps I can explain my reasons for considering an Eggenfellner
powerplant for my RV-10
First of all, these are my opinions only, so DO NOT FLAME! It seems that
every time someone mentions a non-Lycoming powerplant, they get hammered
with responses that can be summed up as "If you don't use Lycoming,
there's something wrong with you".
I have my reasons, you have yours.
Here are my reasons:
1. $50,000 (approx) for a new Lycoming? I can't afford it. Used? I'd
rather not have to go researching about the life history and what's
needed (like a crank) to get the engine reliable. $27,000 or so for a
complete Eggenfellner FWF package is very competitive.
2. 230HP is more than enough for myself; I'm used to flying 152's for
heavens sake! Anything over 800FPM climb rate will please me.
3. Liquid cooling does have its advantages, including tighter
tolerances, almost no oil burning, no shock cooling, no complex baffling
because "#4 cylinder runs hot", etc.
4. Weight is almost the same as a Lycoming.
5. I do *all* the work on all my equipment, cars, engines, etc. I do not
want an A&P to touch it - They break enough things already :)
6. Mixture and prop control are pretty much all automatic; Less pilot
workload.
7. Rebuild cost is much less. What's a Lycoming rebuild cost - $20,000
? With the Eggenfellner, just replace the entire engine block, crank,
pistons, rings and all for around $3,000
8. I do not care about resale value. I am building this plane only for
myself to enjoy - NOT TO RESELL.
9. I can always remove an Eggenfellner and put a Lycoming in its place
(with a new engine mount) later. Nothing prevents you from switching
powerplants later.
10. The Eggenfellner engines are *extremely* smooth; Much less vibration.
11. Insurance costs are pretty much the same with the Eggenfellner
engine package as with Lycoming (due to Eggenfellner's reliable track
record)
Please don't bash those of us who are looking at alternatives; You
Lycoming people have your reasons for going with Lycoming, and we have
no problem with that.
-Jim 40384, Riveting bottom wing skins (slowly)
Tim Olson wrote:
>
> Hey Bill, I'm not going to join a pile-on about Subies. For the record
> I basically agree, but still encourage anyone willing to step forth.
> I personally wouldn't buy the finished plane because it isn't what
> I'd want, but I meet others who would now and then. If the promises
> deliver, I'd think it would be a viable "alternate" engine, but I would
> doubt that in the end any of the benefits or deficits would be all
> that big one way or another.
Message 26
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I see that many have band saws. Can I get by with an inexpensive
Ryobi/Rigid/Delta for $99? These all seem to run 3000 rpm.
Or do I really need a variable speed to drop things down to the 300-400 rpm
range?
Is the distance between the blade and the saw critical? I'm not sure how
long a typical piece being cut is and how long the stock it's being cut off
is?
I see quite a few people have a variable speed band saw from Harbor Freight.
It appears that it has been discontinued by Harbor Freight. What
brand/model would you recommend?
Thanks,
Bob
Message 27
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Bob:
I am using a $99 Delta, finishing the fuselage, and it has done everything I
have needed.
Steve Mills
RV-10 40486 Slow-build
Naperville, Illinois
finishing fuselage
Do Not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Leffler
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 7:50 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Band Saw
I see that many have band saws. Can I get by with an inexpensive
Ryobi/Rigid/Delta for $99? These all seem to run 3000 rpm.
Or do I really need a variable speed to drop things down to the 300-400 rpm
range?
Is the distance between the blade and the saw critical? I'm not sure how
long a typical piece being cut is and how long the stock it's being cut off
is?
I see quite a few people have a variable speed band saw from Harbor Freight.
It appears that it has been discontinued by Harbor Freight. What
brand/model would you recommend?
Thanks,
Bob
Message 28
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| Subject: | Yet More RV-10 Performance/Efficiency |
Sorry everyone about the Subie bashing but I simply don't get it and probably should
not have answered an email on the subject.
Hi Tim: always good to hear from you.
I have flown only 3 cross-country missions with the RV-10 and am still learning
about LOP operations. My engine EGTs max-min is only 30 deg F - so it seems
that the fuel injection nozzles are producing similar flows. After many test
flights and trimming the front entrance dams I can now control my CHT's. Typically
during cruise the cylinder temp max-min is 40 degrees F with an average around
325.
When I fly with over 21" MP the engine feels "rough" to even peak mixture settings.
If I fly 20" or under then I can run 20 degrees LOP but the engine feels
"starved" (better than rough). Apparently, there is a minimum altitude to reap
the fuel flow benefit.
It would seem that the engine will run LOP satisfactory at some high altitude
or at some low power setting. However, there is an airspeed drop of approximately
10mph from peak to LOP settings. I should invent some metric to show graphically
on my display how efficient the aircraft is flying. TAS divided by gph
seems simple, but it would also be useful to bring the prop speed into the equation
as it will also affect efficiency. BTW - what prop speed settings are you
using during cruise?
My engine just feels smoother, which I translate to healthier, at peak leaning
so I have adopted a conservative approach. Perhaps if I pulled the throttle
back to the 10mph less point and then leaned LOP the engine would still feel
healthy and the speed not drop off. Have you noticed any negatives of running
LOP? Are there any negative reports? Lycoming recommends leaning back to peak
but I have not seen a statement focused on LOP operation.
Clearly, there is more to flying LOP than simply leaning.
Bill DeRouchey
billderou@yahoo.com
Flying with a few pit stops
Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
Hey Bill, I'm not going to join a pile-on about Subies. For the record
I basically agree, but still encourage anyone willing to step forth.
I personally wouldn't buy the finished plane because it isn't what
I'd want, but I meet others who would now and then. If the promises
deliver, I'd think it would be a viable "alternate" engine, but I would
doubt that in the end any of the benefits or deficits would be all
that big one way or another.
What I did want to do though was point out a couple more numbers. Just
today I took a prospective RV-10 buying family up for a demo flight...
that's 3 weekends in a row now. Dad's a retired TWA 767 captain, and
son flies little corporate jets. We stuck mom and son in the back
and climbed out at about 1900fpm thru somewhere in the 4000-5000'
range, and leveled out above a broken layer for some stick time. They
wanted flow numbers and I said to expect 13-14gph running ROP at
that altitude, but more like 10 by running LOP. I pulled it LOP
at reduced power at 6500' (don't usually do it below 8K), and we
quickly had our flow down and were truing at 166Kts True (I added
2 to my number since after testing I'm 2kts low in indication).
8.5gph is easy if you're willing to fly over 10K, and from Jesse's
experiences (they've flown higher on long trips than most of mine),
flows in the 7's aren't hard for them to get either.....If I were
seeing 12gph as you are, I know it would be rich-of-peak....so I
assume that must be how you cruise.
So it was a good little demo flight and the performance shows real
well....'specially this time of year up here. The part that gave
me the biggest kick was having both of the other non-flying pilots
tell me that the power in my panel was far better than in the
jets that either of them fly. It's truly amazing what the
21st century brought, and it's great to have it more available
to us builders than it even is to those who just want to plunk
down a wad of cash on a new certified plane.
I know that wasn't much subie/lyc stuff, and as I said, I don't
really care to pile on. But I do agree with you that the performance,
and reliability, and everything else in an engine is there for me,
so I'm very happy with that. What would be really cool though
is to see Dan's Subie come in as a good performer and light a fire
under the lyc clone companies to keep the competition level high
and bring everyone's price down.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> What is it the nay-sayers should be surprised about?
>
> Sticking to the hard facts:
>
> I am flying an RV-10 with the Lyc IO-540 260HP as Van recommends.
>
> The power is wonderful. The reliability unquestionable. The engine is
> extremely smooth. The engine drops into place with a proven installation.
>
> If the issue is economy, and you consider the Lycoming thirsty, pull the
> throttle out to 8.5 gph and the TAS will settle at 150mph true. When its
> time to fast and far then climb up to 10-11K with full throttle and fuel
> flow will settle to 12gph at 195mph true.
>
> If the issue is power then consider I can takeoff with a very light load
> and without crossing the end of a 4000' runway perform a hard, climbing
> turn (poor mans Immelman) to downwind and settle at pattern altitude at
> mid-field. Or, during my last cross-country we climbed with full tanks,
> 2 souls, and some baggage from 7500 to 11500 in 4 minutes. Class B
> airspace? No worries.
>
> Perhaps the issue is initial expense. If you are able to save money on
> the initial engine installation then you will have an RV-10 that is
> worth that much less when its time to sell. The number of RV-10 buyers
> for used aircraft with an Egg engine could dance on the head of a pin.
> Buy Lycoming and the money is only parked for a while and can
> be redeemed later upon sale.
>
> Maybe the real issue is the Egg folks are rebels at heart. This is good
> as I am a rebel myself. However, I don't mess with the airframe nor
> engine. You can be a great rebel by painting the airframe in LSD
> rainbows or Playboy nudes. Tile the inside. Pull out the back seats and
> install a shallow spa. Glass in a row of upside down surfboard fins
> along the fuselage spine and paint sharks teeth under the cowl. Go for
> it - I love creativity.
>
> Maybe the issue is you hate Lycoming. Everybody has bad experiences. I
> can't help you with this one.
>
> So ... help me get it, but stick to facts.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com
> Flying with a few pit stops
>
> */millstees@ameritech.net/* wrote:
>
> -Les:
>
> I think that should read "about to deliver 14 RV-10 Engines". He
> has 14 engines sold, mine among them, for delivering in the
> December-January time frame. To the best of my knowledge, the other
> engines sold for the RV-10, are for '07 delivery. My -10 is a year
> or better away from flying, however, I think Dan Lloyd is much
> closer, and will probably be the first RV-10 with the Subaru engine
> to fly. I am, obviously, looking forward to the first airplane to
> fly, and am expecting all the nay sayers to be suprised.
>
> Steve Mills
> RV-10 40486 Slow-build
> Naperville, Illinois
> finishing fuselage
> Do Not Archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Les
> Kearney
> *Sent:* Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:30 PM
> *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RV10-List: Eggenfellner
>
> Hi
>
> While checking out the Eggenfellner site I noticed that he has
> delivered 14 RV10 engines thus far. I have seen only a couple of
> brief posts on the list from last month. Does anyone have
> anything new to report?
>
> Cheers
>
> Les
>
> #40643
> Do not archive
>
>
> * href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
>
>
>
> *
>
> **
>
>
> **
---------------------------------
Message 29
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| Subject: | Baggage door lock install later? |
Good timing on the topic. I'm not putting in a rotary magneto keyswitch so
I'm looking for a good source for a lock that fits the baggage door. Lowe's
didn't have any with the right tabbed washer setup.
Rob
#392
Baggage door
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Baggage door lock install later?
No problem doing it later. Carry on.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
> hey all -
>
> stupid question... you can install the baggage door lock later
> right? you can fit it through the hole no problem? i don't have it
> in my hand to be able to see, and i want to make sure i'm not
> screwing myself.
>
> thanks!
>
> cj
>
> #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> do not archive
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Yet More RV-10 Performance/Efficiency |
Hey again Bill,
Strange that you get rough running at those higher MP's. What
injection system is it...mine's the vanilla Silverhawk Precision
(bendix)? I don't know that there's a min. altitude so much
as a max power setting, but yeah, I typically don't bother
if I'm under 7,500', but on any x/c, that's a typical min.
altitude anyway. (except for the trips when I've been stuck
at 1200' AGL....those I just suck it up and burn lots more gas)
As for prop speed, coincidentally, when Vic and I flew eachother's
planes, I was quite surprised to see that he says his feels best
at 2360rpm. Totally un-coordinated, I had been playing with RPM's
for months previous and found that 2360 seemed to be a sweet feeling
spot as well. Who knows, maybe there's a good harmonic there.
I can cruise at 170-172kts running ROP and then switch to LOP and
get great flows and still pull 165-166kts. If I'm willing to run
even more LOP (closer to 50-75 deg), I can get the flow back another
gallon almost, but I'll be down to 152-156kts doing it. So I'm
usually 25-50 LOP. I don't notice any difference in smoothness,
but just a drop in speed. You then feel the difference in power
if you richen it up after a while...once you get used to the feel,
the sudden increase in power is very noticible. So yes, I do
know that I'm sacrificing a little speed. But as Jesse so perfectly
pointed out way back, with that loss in speed comes great leaps
in distance traveled...so if you can skip just one gas stop, you'll
save a TON of time, and lots of fuel too when you don't have to
climb back up into cruise. When I took off for home on my last
big trip, I was 300nm+ into the trip and still showed 700nm+ of
range left....and I was cruising in the mid 160's at 13K'.
I haven't noticed any negatives. Clean plugs at 170 hours,
and great LOP CHT's, so actually, I've only seen positives so
far. Only time will tell on how long it goes to TBO +/-. My
gut is telling me it looks like a great thing right now....or
maybe that's my pocketbook, as I've already saved enough to
afford a cylinder or two. ;)
There's actually a bunch about leaning out there on the net.
The big thing about it is, it's another personal choice thing. You're
going to find people well ingrained in either camp, and people will
preach one way or the other. I never ran my last plane LOP (couldn't
as it was a carb engine), but this plane I did after a few dozen
hours and now I'm convinced that it is definitely for me.
Here's a good article to start you off: http://www.taturbo.com/future.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> Sorry everyone about the Subie bashing but I simply don't get it and
> probably should not have answered an email on the subject.
>
> Hi Tim: always good to hear from you.
>
> I have flown only 3 cross-country missions with the RV-10 and am still
> learning about LOP operations. My engine EGTs max-min is only 30 deg F -
> so it seems that the fuel injection nozzles are producing similar flows.
> After many test flights and trimming the front entrance dams I can now
> control my CHT's. Typically during cruise the cylinder temp max-min is
> 40 degrees F with an average around 325.
>
> When I fly with over 21" MP the engine feels "rough" to even peak
> mixture settings. If I fly 20" or under then I can run 20 degrees LOP
> but the engine feels "starved" (better than rough). Apparently, there is
> a minimum altitude to reap the fuel flow benefit.
>
> It would seem that the engine will run LOP satisfactory at some high
> altitude or at some low power setting. However, there is an airspeed
> drop of approximately 10mph from peak to LOP settings. I should invent
> some metric to show graphically on my display how efficient the aircraft
> is flying. TAS divided by gph seems simple, but it would also be useful
> to bring the prop speed into the equation as it will also affect
> efficiency. BTW - what prop speed settings are you using during cruise?
>
> My engine just feels smoother, which I translate to healthier, at peak
> leaning so I have adopted a conservative approach. Perhaps if I pulled
> the throttle back to the 10mph less point and then leaned LOP the engine
> would still feel healthy and the speed not drop off. Have you noticed
> any negatives of running LOP? Are there any negative reports? Lycoming
> recommends leaning back to peak but I have not seen a statement focused
> on LOP operation.
>
> Clearly, there is more to flying LOP than simply leaning.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
> Flying with a few pit stops
>
>
>
>
>
> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> Hey Bill, I'm not going to join a pile-on about Subies. For the record
> I basically agree, but still encourage anyone willing to step forth.
> I personally wouldn't buy the finished plane because it isn't what
> I'd want, but I meet others who would now and then. If the promises
> deliver, I'd think it would be a viable "alternate" engine, but I would
> doubt that in the end any of the benefits or deficits would be all
> that big one way or another.
>
> What I did want to do though was point out a couple more numbers. Just
> today I took a prospective RV-10 buying family up for a demo flight...
> that's 3 weekends in a row now. Dad's a retired TWA 767 captain, and
> son flies little corporate jets. We stuck mom and son in the back
> and climbed out at about 1900fpm thru somewhere in the 4000-5000'
> range, and leveled out above a broken layer for some stick time. They
> wanted flow numbers and I said to expect 13-14gph running ROP at
> that altitude, but more like 10 by running LOP. I pulled it LOP
> at reduced power at 6500' (don't usually do it below 8K), and we
> quickly had our flow down and were truing at 166Kts True (I added
> 2 to my number since after testing I'm 2kts low in indication).
> 8.5gph is easy if you're willing to fly over 10K, and from Jesse's
> experiences (they've flown higher on long trips than most of mine),
> flows in the 7's aren't hard for them to get either.....If I were
> seeing 12gph as you are, I know it would be rich-of-peak....so I
> assume that must be how you cruise.
>
> So it was a good little demo flight and the performance shows real
> well....'specially this time of year up here. The part that gave
> me the biggest kick was having both of the other non-flying pilots
> tell me that the power in my panel was far better than in the
> jets that either of them fly. It's truly amazing what the
> 21st century brought, and it's great to have it more available
> to us builders than it even is to those who just want to plunk
> down a wad of cash on a new certified plane.
>
> I know that wasn't much subie/lyc stuff, and as I said, I don't
> really care to pile on. But I do agree with you that the performance,
> and reliability, and everything else in an engine is there for me,
> so I'm very happy with that. What would be really cool though
> is to see Dan's Subie come in as a good performer and light a fire
> under the lyc clone companies to keep the competition level high
> and bring everyone's price down.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> > What is it the nay-sayers should be surprised about?
> >
> > Sticking to the hard facts:
> >
> > I am flying an RV-10 with the Lyc IO-540 260HP as Van recommends.
> >
> > The power is wonderful. The reliability unquestionable. The
> engine is
> > extremely smooth. The engine drops into place with a proven
> installation.
> >
> > If the issue is economy, and you consider the Lycoming thirsty,
> pull the
> > throttle out to 8.5 gph and the TAS will settle at 150mph true.
> When its
> > time to fast and far then climb up to 10-11K with full throttle
> and fuel
> > flow will settle to 12gph at 195mph true.
> >
> > If the issue is power then consider I can takeoff with a very
> light load
> > and without crossing the end of a 4000' runway perform a hard,
> climbing
> > turn (poor mans Immelman) to downwind and settle at pattern
> altitude at
> > mid-field. Or, during my last cross-country we climbed with full
> tanks,
> > 2 souls, and some baggage from 7500 to 11500 in 4 minutes. Class B
> > airspace? No worries.
> >
> > Perhaps the issue is initial expense. If you are able to save
> money on
> > the initial engine installation then you will have an RV-10 that is
> > worth that much less when its time to sell. The number of RV-10
> buyers
> > for used aircraft with an Egg engine could dance on the head of a
> pin.
> > Buy Lycoming and the money is only parked for a while and can
> > be redeemed later upon sale.
> >
> > Maybe the real issue is the Egg folks are rebels at heart. This
> is good
> > as I am a rebel myself. However, I don't mess with the airframe nor
> > engine. You can be a great rebel by painting the airframe in LSD
> > rainbows or Playboy nudes. Tile the inside. Pull out the back
> seats and
> > install a shallow spa. Glass in a row of upside down surfboard fins
> > along the fuselage spine and paint sharks teeth under the cowl.
> Go for
> > it - I love creativity.
> >
> > Maybe the issue is you hate Lycoming. Everybody has bad
> experiences. I
> > can't help you with this one.
> >
> > So ... help me get it, but stick to facts.
> >
> > Bill DeRouchey
> > billderou@yahoo.com
> > Flying with a few pit stops
> >
> > */millstees@ameritech.net/* wrote:
> >
> > -Les:
> >
> > I think that should read "about to deliver 14 RV-10 Engines". He
> > has 14 engines sold, mine among them, for delivering in the
> > December-January time frame. To the best of my knowledge, the other
> > engines sold for the RV-10, are for '07 delivery. My -10 is a year
> > or better away from flying, however, I think Dan Lloyd is much
> > closer, and will probably be the first RV-10 with the Subaru engine
> > to fly. I am, obviously, looking forward to the first airplane to
> > fly, and am expecting all the nay sayers to be suprised.
> >
> > Steve Mills
> > RV-10 40486 Slow-build
> > Naperville, Illinois
> > finishing fuselage
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Les
> > Kearney
> > *Sent:* Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:30 PM
> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* RV10-List: Eggenfellner
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > While checking out the Eggenfellner site I noticed that he has
> > delivered 14 RV10 engines thus far. I have seen only a couple of
> > brief posts on the list from last
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 31
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|
I think you can get by with an inexpensive one OK for the most part.
That said, it is actually nice to have variable speed, I used it
a lot, and it is also very very nice to have a 12" or larger throat.
I had times when I even couldn't cut a piece to length because 12"
was too short, but I think it would have been a lot harder with 9".
A 9" would absolutely be a worthy tool, but this is a case where
larger is probably better if you have space and can find it affordable.
I didn't start with a bandsaw initially, but it turned into one of
my favorite tools in the shop, and now that it's at the hanger I'm
thinking I need another one for the house. Just bought a nice 10"
drill press for the hanger tonight for $55 (demo model closeout),
so I can bring my junky old crapsman home from the hanger. Tools
are addicting.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Bob Leffler wrote:
>
> I see that many have band saws. Can I get by with an inexpensive
> Ryobi/Rigid/Delta for $99? These all seem to run 3000 rpm.
>
> Or do I really need a variable speed to drop things down to the 300-400 rpm
> range?
>
> Is the distance between the blade and the saw critical? I'm not sure how
> long a typical piece being cut is and how long the stock it's being cut off
> is?
>
> I see quite a few people have a variable speed band saw from Harbor Freight.
> It appears that it has been discontinued by Harbor Freight. What
> brand/model would you recommend?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Eggenfellner |
On 12/2/06, millstees@ameritech.net <millstees@ameritech.net> wrote:
> I would like to second everything that Jim just said, and add a couple of
> items to the discussion.
>
> 1. 2006 technology. They make more car engines in a year than all aircraft
> engines ever made combined, so the R&D is far advanced.
So advanced that NO ONE is making an engine that works in and
aircraft, runs on any form of gasoline that makes more power per pound
with better bfsc than Continental and Lycoming.
> 2. I live in Illinois. Right now it is 20deg outside. If I wanted to go
> fly a Lycoming, I would have to do a pre-heat...not necessary with a Subaru,
> you just hit the starter and it goes, just like a car would.
So use multi-grade oil and install a Tanis or Reiff system.
> 3. I owned an Arrow, and had nothing but cylinder and crank problems, so I
> am ready for a change to something reliable.
Hmm, thousands others haven't had same problems...perhaps your sample
isn't statistically significant.
> 4. Parts come from Subaru, not Eggenfellner, so availibility is not a
> problem, and do not have the inflated aviation cost.
And aren't designed to operate 2000 hours at full power, unlike
aircraft engine parts.
I don't see very many 20 year old Subies running around, but there
sure are a lot of 20 year old aircraft engines flying around.
> 5. It is turbo-charged, so even if there is a small power penalty compared
> to the IO-540, it is more than made up as you climb...I'll still be
> developing 220HP at 16,000 ft.
Turbos aren't known for reliability either, especially when run much
over 75% for any length of time.
But it is all about choice.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Yet More RV-10 Performance/Efficiency |
Just to chime in FWIW, I also run around 2320 RPM as it feels better than
2400 or more, might be the prop combination or something I don't know
anything about but it is an interesting coincidence that several folks are
gravitating toward the same RPM because it feels right. I'll try 2360 next
time just for fun.
I've been running a lot of LOP at 6,000+MSL and think it's great. With only
an hour left on one flight I did some comparisons and it was going to cost
me 4 gallons to save 7 minutes if I pushed it up - clearly not worth it. I
get about 170-172 ROP (~14.5GPH) and 160-162 LOP (~10.6 GPH).
Marcus
40286
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Yet More RV-10 Performance/Efficiency
Hey again Bill,
Strange that you get rough running at those higher MP's. What
injection system is it...mine's the vanilla Silverhawk Precision
(bendix)? I don't know that there's a min. altitude so much
as a max power setting, but yeah, I typically don't bother
if I'm under 7,500', but on any x/c, that's a typical min.
altitude anyway. (except for the trips when I've been stuck
at 1200' AGL....those I just suck it up and burn lots more gas)
As for prop speed, coincidentally, when Vic and I flew eachother's
planes, I was quite surprised to see that he says his feels best
at 2360rpm. Totally un-coordinated, I had been playing with RPM's
for months previous and found that 2360 seemed to be a sweet feeling
spot as well. Who knows, maybe there's a good harmonic there.
I can cruise at 170-172kts running ROP and then switch to LOP and
get great flows and still pull 165-166kts. If I'm willing to run
even more LOP (closer to 50-75 deg), I can get the flow back another
gallon almost, but I'll be down to 152-156kts doing it. So I'm
usually 25-50 LOP. I don't notice any difference in smoothness,
but just a drop in speed. You then feel the difference in power
if you richen it up after a while...once you get used to the feel,
the sudden increase in power is very noticible. So yes, I do
know that I'm sacrificing a little speed. But as Jesse so perfectly
pointed out way back, with that loss in speed comes great leaps
in distance traveled...so if you can skip just one gas stop, you'll
save a TON of time, and lots of fuel too when you don't have to
climb back up into cruise. When I took off for home on my last
big trip, I was 300nm+ into the trip and still showed 700nm+ of
range left....and I was cruising in the mid 160's at 13K'.
I haven't noticed any negatives. Clean plugs at 170 hours,
and great LOP CHT's, so actually, I've only seen positives so
far. Only time will tell on how long it goes to TBO +/-. My
gut is telling me it looks like a great thing right now....or
maybe that's my pocketbook, as I've already saved enough to
afford a cylinder or two. ;)
There's actually a bunch about leaning out there on the net.
The big thing about it is, it's another personal choice thing. You're
going to find people well ingrained in either camp, and people will
preach one way or the other. I never ran my last plane LOP (couldn't
as it was a carb engine), but this plane I did after a few dozen
hours and now I'm convinced that it is definitely for me.
Here's a good article to start you off: http://www.taturbo.com/future.html
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> Sorry everyone about the Subie bashing but I simply don't get it and
> probably should not have answered an email on the subject.
>
> Hi Tim: always good to hear from you.
>
> I have flown only 3 cross-country missions with the RV-10 and am still
> learning about LOP operations. My engine EGTs max-min is only 30 deg F -
> so it seems that the fuel injection nozzles are producing similar flows.
> After many test flights and trimming the front entrance dams I can now
> control my CHT's. Typically during cruise the cylinder temp max-min is
> 40 degrees F with an average around 325.
>
> When I fly with over 21" MP the engine feels "rough" to even peak
> mixture settings. If I fly 20" or under then I can run 20 degrees LOP
> but the engine feels "starved" (better than rough). Apparently, there is
> a minimum altitude to reap the fuel flow benefit.
>
> It would seem that the engine will run LOP satisfactory at some high
> altitude or at some low power setting. However, there is an airspeed
> drop of approximately 10mph from peak to LOP settings. I should invent
> some metric to show graphically on my display how efficient the aircraft
> is flying. TAS divided by gph seems simple, but it would also be useful
> to bring the prop speed into the equation as it will also affect
> efficiency. BTW - what prop speed settings are you using during cruise?
>
> My engine just feels smoother, which I translate to healthier, at peak
> leaning so I have adopted a conservative approach. Perhaps if I pulled
> the throttle back to the 10mph less point and then leaned LOP the engine
> would still feel healthy and the speed not drop off. Have you noticed
> any negatives of running LOP? Are there any negative reports? Lycoming
> recommends leaning back to peak but I have not seen a statement focused
> on LOP operation.
>
> Clearly, there is more to flying LOP than simply leaning.
>
> Bill DeRouchey
> billderou@yahoo.com <mailto:billderou@yahoo.com>
> Flying with a few pit stops
>
>
>
>
>
> */Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>/* wrote:
>
>
> Hey Bill, I'm not going to join a pile-on about Subies. For the record
> I basically agree, but still encourage anyone willing to step forth.
> I personally wouldn't buy the finished plane because it isn't what
> I'd want, but I meet others who would now and then. If the promises
> deliver, I'd think it would be a viable "alternate" engine, but I
would
> doubt that in the end any of the benefits or deficits would be all
> that big one way or another.
>
> What I did want to do though was point out a couple more numbers. Just
> today I took a prospective RV-10 buying family up for a demo flight...
> that's 3 weekends in a row now. Dad's a retired TWA 767 captain, and
> son flies little corporate jets. We stuck mom and son in the back
> and climbed out at about 1900fpm thru somewhere in the 4000-5000'
> range, and leveled out above a broken layer for some stick time. They
> wanted flow numbers and I said to expect 13-14gph running ROP at
> that altitude, but more like 10 by running LOP. I pulled it LOP
> at reduced power at 6500' (don't usually do it below 8K), and we
> quickly had our flow down and were truing at 166Kts True (I added
> 2 to my number since after testing I'm 2kts low in indication).
> 8.5gph is easy if you're willing to fly over 10K, and from Jesse's
> experiences (they've flown higher on long trips than most of mine),
> flows in the 7's aren't hard for them to get either.....If I were
> seeing 12gph as you are, I know it would be rich-of-peak....so I
> assume that must be how you cruise.
>
> So it was a good little demo flight and the performance shows real
> well....'specially this time of year up here. The part that gave
> me the biggest kick was having both of the other non-flying pilots
> tell me that the power in my panel was far better than in the
> jets that either of them fly. It's truly amazing what the
> 21st century brought, and it's great to have it more available
> to us builders than it even is to those who just want to plunk
> down a wad of cash on a new certified plane.
>
> I know that wasn't much subie/lyc stuff, and as I said, I don't
> really care to pile on. But I do agree with you that the performance,
> and reliability, and everything else in an engine is there for me,
> so I'm very happy with that. What would be really cool though
> is to see Dan's Subie come in as a good performer and light a fire
> under the lyc clone companies to keep the competition level high
> and bring everyone's price down.
>
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Bill DeRouchey wrote:
> > What is it the nay-sayers should be surprised about?
> >
> > Sticking to the hard facts:
> >
> > I am flying an RV-10 with the Lyc IO-540 260HP as Van recommends.
> >
> > The power is wonderful. The reliability unquestionable. The
> engine is
> > extremely smooth. The engine drops into place with a proven
> installation.
> >
> > If the issue is economy, and you consider the Lycoming thirsty,
> pull the
> > throttle out to 8.5 gph and the TAS will settle at 150mph true.
> When its
> > time to fast and far then climb up to 10-11K with full throttle
> and fuel
> > flow will settle to 12gph at 195mph true.
> >
> > If the issue is power then consider I can takeoff with a very
> light load
> > and without crossing the end of a 4000' runway perform a hard,
> climbing
> > turn (poor mans Immelman) to downwind and settle at pattern
> altitude at
> > mid-field. Or, during my last cross-country we climbed with full
> tanks,
> > 2 souls, and some baggage from 7500 to 11500 in 4 minutes. Class B
> > airspace? No worries.
> >
> > Perhaps the issue is initial expense. If you are able to save
> money on
> > the initial engine installation then you will have an RV-10 that is
> > worth that much less when its time to sell. The number of RV-10
> buyers
> > for used aircraft with an Egg engine could dance on the head of a
> pin.
> > Buy Lycoming and the money is only parked for a while and can
> > be redeemed later upon sale.
> >
> > Maybe the real issue is the Egg folks are rebels at heart. This
> is good
> > as I am a rebel myself. However, I don't mess with the airframe nor
> > engine. You can be a great rebel by painting the airframe in LSD
> > rainbows or Playboy nudes. Tile the inside. Pull out the back
> seats and
> > install a shallow spa. Glass in a row of upside down surfboard fins
> > along the fuselage spine and paint sharks teeth under the cowl.
> Go for
> > it - I love creativity.
> >
> > Maybe the issue is you hate Lycoming. Everybody has bad
> experiences. I
> > can't help you with this one.
> >
> > So ... help me get it, but stick to facts.
> >
> > Bill DeRouchey
> > billderou@yahoo.com
> > Flying with a few pit stops
> >
> > */millstees@ameritech.net/* wrote:
> >
> > -Les:
> >
> > I think that should read "about to deliver 14 RV-10 Engines". He
> > has 14 engines sold, mine among them, for delivering in the
> > December-January time frame. To the best of my knowledge, the other
> > engines sold for the RV-10, are for '07 delivery. My -10 is a year
> > or better away from flying, however, I think Dan Lloyd is much
> > closer, and will probably be the first RV-10 with the Subaru engine
> > to fly. I am, obviously, looking forward to the first airplane to
> > fly, and am expecting all the nay sayers to be suprised.
> >
> > Steve Mills
> > RV-10 40486 Slow-build
> > Naperville, Illinois
> > finishing fuselage
> > Do Not Archive
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]*On Behalf Of *Les
> > Kearney
> > *Sent:* Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:30 PM
> > *To:* rv10-list@matronics.com
> > *Subject:* RV10-List: Eggenfellner
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > While checking out the Eggenfellner site I noticed that he has
> > delivered 14 RV10 engines thus far. I have seen only a couple of
> > brief posts on the list from last
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 34
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| Subject: | Baggage door lock install later? |
Try Aircraft Spruce:
ACS DOOR AND BAGGAGE LOCK SETS
P/N 11-01600 $26.60
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/igswitches.php
Marcus
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wright
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:02 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Baggage door lock install later?
Good timing on the topic. I'm not putting in a rotary magneto keyswitch so
I'm looking for a good source for a lock that fits the baggage door. Lowe's
didn't have any with the right tabbed washer setup.
Rob
#392
Baggage door
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Baggage door lock install later?
No problem doing it later. Carry on.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Chris Johnston wrote:
> hey all -
>
> stupid question... you can install the baggage door lock later
> right? you can fit it through the hole no problem? i don't have it
> in my hand to be able to see, and i want to make sure i'm not
> screwing myself.
>
> thanks!
>
> cj
>
> #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
>
> do not archive
Message 35
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|
Dont like it, make it different.......i've made side panels out of glass
with armrests that have louvers for the fresh air. Vent is actuated by small
push pull cable..
.02 fwiw
Steve
40205
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jay Brinkmeyer
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:16 PM
> To: RV10
> Subject: RV10-List: Rear fuse vents
>
>
> Anyone else besides me think that these are junk? $35K for a kit that has
> cheesy, ugly, and (I'm thinking) less than useful vents. What have others
> done
> at this point?
>
> I'm thinking of riveting mine shut somehow and calling it good. How would
> these
> possibly be opened from inside? (not?).
>
> Van, are you listening?
>
> Jay
>
>
>
> Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it
> now.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
--
Message 36
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| Subject: | Baggage door lock install later? |
I'll be in the hangar tomorrow. If I can find the lock cyl from the last rv6
I give it to you. ....i know its here somewhere........
Steve
40205
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wright
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 10:02 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Baggage door lock install later?
>
>
> Good timing on the topic. I'm not putting in a rotary magneto keyswitch
> so
> I'm looking for a good source for a lock that fits the baggage door.
> Lowe's
> didn't have any with the right tabbed washer setup.
>
> Rob
> #392
> Baggage door
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 2:23 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Baggage door lock install later?
>
>
> No problem doing it later. Carry on.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> Chris Johnston wrote:
> > hey all -
> >
> > stupid question... you can install the baggage door lock later
> > right? you can fit it through the hole no problem? i don't have it
> > in my hand to be able to see, and i want to make sure i'm not
> > screwing myself.
> >
> > thanks!
> >
> > cj
> >
> > #40410 fuse www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
> >
> > do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
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