Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:07 AM - Re: Another Alternative Engine? (Rodger Todd)
2. 05:49 AM - Re: Another Alternative Engine? (Tim Olson)
3. 06:10 AM - Re: Paint experience (Tim Olson)
4. 06:27 AM - Re: Another Alternative Engine? (Mark Ritter)
5. 06:41 AM - Re: Another Alternative Engine? (PJ Seipel)
6. 06:50 AM - Re: Paint experience (James Hein)
7. 07:00 AM - Re: Paint experience (Rodger Todd)
8. 07:08 AM - Re: Another Alternative Engine? (Rodger Todd)
9. 07:27 AM - Re: Another Alternative Engine? (Jesse Saint)
10. 08:07 AM - Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? (C Smith)
11. 08:33 AM - Re: Paint experience (Brian Douglas)
12. 08:36 AM - Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? (Tim Olson)
13. 09:28 AM - Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? (Mark Ritter)
14. 09:55 AM - Engine analyzer/monitor (Kelly McMullen)
15. 01:09 PM - Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? (Jesse Saint)
16. 01:12 PM - Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? (C Smith)
17. 02:05 PM - Gear leg fairings (Chris Hukill)
18. 03:05 PM - Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? (Tim Olson)
19. 04:16 PM - Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? (Kelly McMullen)
20. 04:19 PM - Re: Another Alternative Engine? (johngoodman)
21. 06:31 PM - Re: Paint experience (RV Builder (Michael Sausen))
22. 06:34 PM - Fuse Part (Rob Wright)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Another Alternative Engine? |
I don't consider myself an expert - well not in this
field anyway, but when I first started looking at the
-10 it was obvious to me that the SMA230 would be
eminently suitable. I contacted both the local agent
and SMA in France to be told two things. Firstly they
were only interested in supplying complete FWF kits
which only they would install and secondly they were
developing a higher powered version which eventually
would be suitable for us (higher powered being
350+hp). That left me wondering about their marketing
and also their ability to read (when did 260hp max
350hp?)
My take is that they are not interested in any way in
the experimental market. Since then I have heard that
they are still having prop problems due to unevenness
in the cycle - can't remember the source but it was
printed.
I regretfully will be installing some form of
Lycosaurus which it's ravenous appetite and dislike
for hot starting.
If it's not too early, received first card 1 month
ago, Merry Christmas to all,
Rodger
--- Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com> wrote:
> <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> http://www.flyjeta.com/tech.htm
>
> What say you engine experts?
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
> Admin.
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________
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use." - PC Magazine
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Another Alternative Engine? |
Hi Rodger,
I had thought of the SMA too, but hearing of the troubles
they had and the high cost turned me off as well.
For what it's worth, I've found that at least with the
Lightspeed ignition on one side, Hot Start issues are
a myth, once you learn how to do them. I had a couple
of starts go bad early on, but now I can get it started
right away both hot or cold, and it's an injected
engine. So don't let hot starts scare you away.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Rodger Todd wrote:
>
> I don't consider myself an expert - well not in this
> field anyway, but when I first started looking at the
> -10 it was obvious to me that the SMA230 would be
> eminently suitable. I contacted both the local agent
> and SMA in France to be told two things. Firstly they
> were only interested in supplying complete FWF kits
> which only they would install and secondly they were
> developing a higher powered version which eventually
> would be suitable for us (higher powered being
> 350+hp). That left me wondering about their marketing
> and also their ability to read (when did 260hp max
> 350hp?)
>
> My take is that they are not interested in any way in
> the experimental market. Since then I have heard that
> they are still having prop problems due to unevenness
> in the cycle - can't remember the source but it was
> printed.
>
> I regretfully will be installing some form of
> Lycosaurus which it's ravenous appetite and dislike
> for hot starting.
>
> If it's not too early, received first card 1 month
> ago, Merry Christmas to all,
>
> Rodger
> --- Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com> wrote:
>
>> <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>>
>> http://www.flyjeta.com/tech.htm
>>
>> What say you engine experts?
>>
>>
>> Click on
>> about
>> provided
>> www.buildersbooks.com
>> Admin.
>>
>> browse
>> Subscriptions page,
>> FAQ,
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease
of use." - PC Magazine
> http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Paint experience |
Reply inline...
Rob Wright wrote:
> How much experience did you (anyone) have prior to doing your own
> priming and then paint? I need to start planning. For the simplicity
> of the fuse interior, it seems that I can both prime and paint with an
> inexpensive gun (<$50 or<$75), then I can save up for a higher quality
> exterior gun after I fly for a while.
>
> Questions:
>
> Hows the learning curve?
>
The learning curve question is a very tough question. It could vary
greatly for people. I do believe that those who are priming their own
parts can benefit from the time spent priming, however. My advice is
if you don't feel really comfortable, have someone come over who is
when you get to the real painting, and give you a hand with some parts,
or at least critique you. Most people will know SOMEONE who they
can call who's painted things before, even if it's a friend of a
friend. So talk about it with those close to you and see who
knows who. Even if it cost you a couple hundred bucks for an off-duty
auto body person for a day, you'd learn things....and a professional
paid paint job will still be many THOUSANDS more.
>
> How many practice pieces before committing?
>
Painting isn't too bad when you get the theory down and have some
practice. After doing the plane I painted and matched a couple of
car pieces too, including clearcoat. The only thing that didn't
turn out perfect is I did it in a dusty garage and got some dirt
in the clearcoat. If you have someone get you started, there's no
reason that you can't do a reasonable job. I'll never pay for a
car to be painted again, from what I've found now. So now my
wife can nail all the deer she wants. ;)
>
>
> What about gravity vs. standard fed guns? Meaning, how easy is it to
> manipulate the gun to all the nooks and crannys with such a big cup
> without losing paint flow?
>
>
Here's a good suggestion for you. I think the pressure pot guns would
do good for people on the main color, but we didn't use them. But,
the guy who helped me had a good trick. For the Sata guns we used,
they make a plastic liner disposable paint cup that has it's own
integral filter. It was awesome for doing even the undersides
of things, because as the paint got used, the liner collapsed, keeping
it void of air for the most part. This eliminated the issue. They
weren't too expensive, and it was nice to just throw away the liners
when done with a session. Again, a small cost compared to paying
a pro.
Incidently, keeping a paint job simple (which is what I consider mine
to be), can help make it easier. One large single color base followed
by 1 or 2 stripe colors isn't really a big deal. Actually, the color
stripes are even easier to do on top of the base, and I found the base
coat clearcoat to be even easier to work with in general. But I am
glad I went single stage on the main color.
>
> Recommend pint or quart cup to cover the interior, or go with a touch-up
> gun? I see on Tims site that he only used about a quart total for the
> whole inside.
>
The interior is harder to maneuver around than the exterior. I now own,
AFTER the fact, a nice SATA MiniJet with a smaller cup that would be
great for the small areas on the interior. I think you could use
either, but you'll want to put any inline hose filters somewhere
upstream a ways so the hose connects directly to the gun with a 10'
whip instead of quick connectors. That makes it easier to flex
around. I don't know what I'd do if I could do it all over again.
Probably use the minijet on the interior, since it's such a small
area.
Either way, when you paint the plane, you're going to mix up larger
batches of paint than what one gun cup will hold. You need to be able
to just pour more into the gun and carry on quick, in order to keep
painting along the wet edge on the larger parts. The good news is,
if you can't keep up and keep the edge wet, you can back up to a
seam or some spot and start that panel with a new edge. Anyway,
you just don't want to have to stop and mix more paint during a large
shoot if possible. It also might be nice, if you have the time
and space to do it, to do a couple major pieces at a time. Like
the day you do the fuselage, don't do anything else. Do the wings
another day. Then do the small parts another day. That helps
break things up.
For my next plane, I may even just plastic line my garage and do
the entire thing there, as the color striped we did there turned
out fine. I'd just need to get some blower/filter stuff set up
but I could do that cheap enough to still make the entire job
a bargain over a paid-for pro job. Mine isn't the prettiest
plane out there, but it still seems to look good to most
people from what I can tell.
Tim
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392
>
> Fuse Access Covers
>
> *
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Another Alternative Engine? |
Rodger,
I have the same setup on my Lyc. IO-540 (Aero Sport engine) as Tim
(Lightspeed and Mag) and agree hot starts are a non-issue.
Mark (N410MR)
>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Another Alternative Engine?
>Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 07:47:38 -0600
>
>
>Hi Rodger,
>I had thought of the SMA too, but hearing of the troubles
>they had and the high cost turned me off as well.
>
>For what it's worth, I've found that at least with the
>Lightspeed ignition on one side, Hot Start issues are
>a myth, once you learn how to do them. I had a couple
>of starts go bad early on, but now I can get it started
>right away both hot or cold, and it's an injected
>engine. So don't let hot starts scare you away.
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>Rodger Todd wrote:
>>
>>I don't consider myself an expert - well not in this
>>field anyway, but when I first started looking at the
>>-10 it was obvious to me that the SMA230 would be
>>eminently suitable. I contacted both the local agent
>>and SMA in France to be told two things. Firstly they
>>were only interested in supplying complete FWF kits
>>which only they would install and secondly they were
>>developing a higher powered version which eventually
>>would be suitable for us (higher powered being
>>350+hp). That left me wondering about their marketing
>>and also their ability to read (when did 260hp max
>>350hp?)
>>
>>My take is that they are not interested in any way in
>>the experimental market. Since then I have heard that
>>they are still having prop problems due to unevenness
>>in the cycle - can't remember the source but it was
>>printed.
>>
>>I regretfully will be installing some form of
>>Lycosaurus which it's ravenous appetite and dislike
>>for hot starting.
>>
>>If it's not too early, received first card 1 month
>>ago, Merry Christmas to all,
>>
>>Rodger
>>--- Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com> wrote:
>>
>>><jeff@westcottpress.com>
>>>
>>>http://www.flyjeta.com/tech.htm
>>>
>>>What say you engine experts?
>>>
>>>
>>>Click on
>>>about
>>>provided
>>>www.buildersbooks.com
>>>Admin.
>>>
>>>browse
>>>Subscriptions page,
>>>FAQ,
>>>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>___________________________________________________________ All new Yahoo!
>>Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of use." -
>>PC Magazine http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Another Alternative Engine? |
SMA has been around for a long time. I looked at them when I was
considering DeltaHawk and others. They will not sell to the
experimental market. Only way you're going to get an engine from them,
at least in the next five to ten years, is if you bring them a Cessna
182 and get it retrofitted for $80K. Their entire focus is on the
certified GA market.
PJ
RV-10 #40032
Jeff Carpenter wrote:
>
> http://www.flyjeta.com/tech.htm
>
> What say you engine experts?
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Paint experience |
Rob,
I use a Paasche airbrush for all the small pieces (anything other than a
skin), which keeps overspray down, wastes less paint, and lets you work
a boit slower this allowing you more precision in priming. For the
skins, it is too small, so I use a regular automotive touchup gun, but
the amount of paint that gets in the air is horrible compared to the
airbrush.
If you do go the airbrush route, make sure to get a few 3 or 6 oz. spray
jars and a large needle to spray the heavy paints. I use the airbrush at
70psi.
Oh, if you screw up a small part during priming, just toss the part in a
bucket of Acetone or MEK and it will remove it so you can try again
later. (after a week though, the PPG Epoxy paint won't dissolve!)
I am using PPG DP50LF Epoxy primer, with DP401 Catalyst.
-Jim 40384 (must..... get..... back.... to..... riveting..... bottom....
wing.... skins.... ! )
Rob Wright wrote:
> How much experience did you (anyone) have prior to doing your own
> priming and then paint? I need to start planning. For the simplicity
> of the fuse interior, it seems that I can both prime and paint with an
> inexpensive gun (<$50 or<$75), then I can save up for a higher quality
> exterior gun after I fly for a while.
>
> Questions:
>
> Hows the learning curve?
>
> How many practice pieces before committing?
>
> What about gravity vs. standard fed guns? Meaning, how easy is it to
> manipulate the gun to all the nooks and crannys with such a big cup
> without losing paint flow?
>
> Recommend pint or quart cup to cover the interior, or go with a
> touch-up gun? I see on Tims site that he only used about a quart
> total for the whole inside.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rob Wright
>
> #392
>
> Fuse Access Covers
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Paint experience |
Hi Tim,
"they make a plastic liner disposable paint cup that
has it's own
integral filter. It was awesome for doing even the
undersides
of things, because as the paint got used, the liner
collapsed, keeping
it void of air for the most part"
I think you're refering to the 3M PPS system here
which is available for most guns. I'm in the process
of getting it for my Sata Minijet 4 - been on order
for over two months, the distributor is currently
waiting for the mini-cups.
See
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?6666660Zjcf6lVs6EVs66SeggCOrrrrQ-
or if this doesn't work then go to the 3M site and
search for PPS.
I think some one here mentioned this some months ago.
Best wishes,
Rodger
--- Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
> <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Reply inline...
>
>
> Rob Wright wrote:
> > How much experience did you (anyone) have prior to
> doing your own
> > priming and then paint? I need to start planning.
> For the simplicity
> > of the fuse interior, it seems that I can both
> prime and paint with an
> > inexpensive gun (<$50 or<$75), then I can save up
> for a higher quality
> > exterior gun after I fly for a while.
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > Hows the learning curve?
> >
>
> The learning curve question is a very tough
> question. It could vary
> greatly for people. I do believe that those who are
> priming their own
> parts can benefit from the time spent priming,
> however. My advice is
> if you don't feel really comfortable, have someone
> come over who is
> when you get to the real painting, and give you a
> hand with some parts,
> or at least critique you. Most people will know
> SOMEONE who they
> can call who's painted things before, even if it's a
> friend of a
> friend. So talk about it with those close to you
> and see who
> knows who. Even if it cost you a couple hundred
> bucks for an off-duty
> auto body person for a day, you'd learn
> things....and a professional
> paid paint job will still be many THOUSANDS more.
>
>
> >
> > How many practice pieces before committing?
> >
>
> Painting isn't too bad when you get the theory down
> and have some
> practice. After doing the plane I painted and
> matched a couple of
> car pieces too, including clearcoat. The only thing
> that didn't
> turn out perfect is I did it in a dusty garage and
> got some dirt
> in the clearcoat. If you have someone get you
> started, there's no
> reason that you can't do a reasonable job. I'll
> never pay for a
> car to be painted again, from what I've found now.
> So now my
> wife can nail all the deer she wants. ;)
>
> >
> >
> > What about gravity vs. standard fed guns? Meaning,
> how easy is it to
> > manipulate the gun to all the nooks and crannys
> with such a big cup
> > without losing paint flow?
> >
> >
>
> Here's a good suggestion for you. I think the
> pressure pot guns would
> do good for people on the main color, but we didn't
> use them. But,
> the guy who helped me had a good trick. For the
> Sata guns we used,
> they make a plastic liner disposable paint cup that
> has it's own
> integral filter. It was awesome for doing even the
> undersides
> of things, because as the paint got used, the liner
> collapsed, keeping
> it void of air for the most part. This eliminated
> the issue. They
> weren't too expensive, and it was nice to just throw
> away the liners
> when done with a session. Again, a small cost
> compared to paying
> a pro.
>
> Incidently, keeping a paint job simple (which is
> what I consider mine
> to be), can help make it easier. One large single
> color base followed
> by 1 or 2 stripe colors isn't really a big deal.
> Actually, the color
> stripes are even easier to do on top of the base,
> and I found the base
> coat clearcoat to be even easier to work with in
> general. But I am
> glad I went single stage on the main color.
>
>
>
> >
> > Recommend pint or quart cup to cover the interior,
> or go with a touch-up
> > gun? I see on Tims site that he only used about
> a quart total for the
> > whole inside.
> >
>
> The interior is harder to maneuver around than the
> exterior. I now own,
> AFTER the fact, a nice SATA MiniJet with a smaller
> cup that would be
> great for the small areas on the interior. I think
> you could use
> either, but you'll want to put any inline hose
> filters somewhere
> upstream a ways so the hose connects directly to the
> gun with a 10'
> whip instead of quick connectors. That makes it
> easier to flex
> around. I don't know what I'd do if I could do it
> all over again.
> Probably use the minijet on the interior, since it's
> such a small
> area.
>
> Either way, when you paint the plane, you're going
> to mix up larger
> batches of paint than what one gun cup will hold.
> You need to be able
> to just pour more into the gun and carry on quick,
> in order to keep
> painting along the wet edge on the larger parts.
> The good news is,
> if you can't keep up and keep the edge wet, you can
> back up to a
> seam or some spot and start that panel with a new
> edge. Anyway,
> you just don't want to have to stop and mix more
> paint during a large
> shoot if possible. It also might be nice, if you
> have the time
> and space to do it, to do a couple major pieces at a
> time. Like
> the day you do the fuselage, don't do anything else.
> Do the wings
> another day. Then do the small parts another day.
> That helps
> break things up.
>
> For my next plane, I may even just plastic line my
> garage and do
> the entire thing there, as the color striped we did
> there turned
> out fine. I'd just need to get some blower/filter
> stuff set up
> but I could do that cheap enough to still make the
> entire job
> a bargain over a paid-for pro job. Mine isn't the
> prettiest
> plane out there, but it still seems to look good to
> most
> people from what I can tell.
>
> Tim
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob Wright
> >
> > #392
> >
> > Fuse Access Covers
> >
> > *
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
>
=== message truncated ==
___________________________________________________________
All new Yahoo! Mail "The new Interface is stunning in its simplicity and ease of
use." - PC Magazine
http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Another Alternative Engine? |
Thanks to both Mark and Tim for the thumbs up on hot
starts.
Tim knows that I live in an area where hot starts are
an everyday necessity and I'm glad to hear that this
is one less worry.
Rodger
--- Mark Ritter <mritter509@msn.com> wrote:
> <mritter509@msn.com>
>
> Rodger,
>
> I have the same setup on my Lyc. IO-540 (Aero Sport
> engine) as Tim
> (Lightspeed and Mag) and agree hot starts are a
> non-issue.
>
> Mark (N410MR)
>
>
>
>
> >From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: RV10-List: Another Alternative Engine?
> >Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 07:47:38 -0600
> >
> <Tim@MyRV10.com>
> >
> >Hi Rodger,
> >I had thought of the SMA too, but hearing of the
> troubles
> >they had and the high cost turned me off as well.
> >
> >For what it's worth, I've found that at least with
> the
> >Lightspeed ignition on one side, Hot Start issues
> are
> >a myth, once you learn how to do them. I had a
> couple
> >of starts go bad early on, but now I can get it
> started
> >right away both hot or cold, and it's an injected
> >engine. So don't let hot starts scare you away.
> >
> >Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> >do not archive
> >
> >
> >Rodger Todd wrote:
> <rj_todd@yahoo.co.uk>
> >>
> >>I don't consider myself an expert - well not in
> this
> >>field anyway, but when I first started looking at
> the
> >>-10 it was obvious to me that the SMA230 would be
> >>eminently suitable. I contacted both the local
> agent
> >>and SMA in France to be told two things. Firstly
> they
> >>were only interested in supplying complete FWF
> kits
> >>which only they would install and secondly they
> were
> >>developing a higher powered version which
> eventually
> >>would be suitable for us (higher powered being
> >>350+hp). That left me wondering about their
> marketing
> >>and also their ability to read (when did 260hp max
>
> >>350hp?)
> >>
> >>My take is that they are not interested in any way
> in
> >>the experimental market. Since then I have heard
> that
> >>they are still having prop problems due to
> unevenness
> >>in the cycle - can't remember the source but it
> was
> >>printed.
> >>
> >>I regretfully will be installing some form of
> >>Lycosaurus which it's ravenous appetite and
> dislike
> >>for hot starting.
> >>
> >>If it's not too early, received first card 1 month
> >>ago, Merry Christmas to all,
> >>
> >>Rodger
> >>--- Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>><jeff@westcottpress.com>
> >>>
> >>>http://www.flyjeta.com/tech.htm
> >>>
> >>>What say you engine experts?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Click on
> >>>about
> >>>provided
> >>>www.buildersbooks.com
> >>>Admin.
> >>>
> >>>browse
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Another Alternative Engine? |
I guess ravenous appetite could be debated as well. Yes, you can burn 26gph
at sea level running rich on take-off, but you can also cruise burning 7gph
with TAS upwards of 150Kts, or 13.5gph at 176Kts. That seems to me to be
pretty economical.
Another issue on hot starts is there is a fuel injection system that has a
purge valve so you can pull a lever, run the boost pump, and flush the hot
fuel out of the system. With 2 mags hot start takes a little longer, but it
isn't a big deal IMHO. A Slick Start helps with this also, although they
have stopped selling it, but I hear they are coming out with a new version
sometime early next year.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodger Todd
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:06 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Another Alternative Engine?
I don't consider myself an expert - well not in this
field anyway, but when I first started looking at the
-10 it was obvious to me that the SMA230 would be
eminently suitable. I contacted both the local agent
and SMA in France to be told two things. Firstly they
were only interested in supplying complete FWF kits
which only they would install and secondly they were
developing a higher powered version which eventually
would be suitable for us (higher powered being
350+hp). That left me wondering about their marketing
and also their ability to read (when did 260hp max
350hp?)
My take is that they are not interested in any way in
the experimental market. Since then I have heard that
they are still having prop problems due to unevenness
in the cycle - can't remember the source but it was
printed.
I regretfully will be installing some form of
Lycosaurus which it's ravenous appetite and dislike
for hot starting.
If it's not too early, received first card 1 month
ago, Merry Christmas to all,
Rodger
--- Jeff Carpenter <jeff@westcottpress.com> wrote:
> <jeff@westcottpress.com>
>
> http://www.flyjeta.com/tech.htm
>
> What say you engine experts?
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com
> Admin.
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
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| Subject: | Hot Starts Lycoming? |
Any one care to share their hot start tips?????
CS
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Paint experience |
This past summer I borrowed a HVLP system from a guy at our airport and
shot my practice kit control surface just to see how good of a job I
could do. The final result was pretty poor so I decided I'd just give
up on that idea and let the pros do it for me.
Since then I bought an el-cheapo gun from Wally-World to shoot the
interior surfaces of the tailcone skins with epoxy primer (I had until
then been using rattle can stuff) and after shooting all of those skins
and associated bulkheads I'm coming back around to the thought of
shooting the paint myself.
It takes some time and experimentation to get the gun set up right and
to figure out all of the other variables in the process but my guess is
that by the time you've shot the tailcone and wings, you'll be much more
confident in your ability and you'll have made all of the mistakes you
need to make and figured out how to fix them.
It sounds like Rob is well beyond that point in his build so I'm not
sure what to suggest as far a practice. Scrap aluminum from the
junkyard? Old wheelbarrow? Helpfully suggest to the wife that the
gargage doors need to be re-painted?
One thing I'll say is that el-cheapo gun has a TREMENDOUS amount of
overspray. I'd swear that every flat surface in my garage has a 1/16"
layer of grey dust on it.
-Brian
#40497
Iowa City, IA
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Wright
To: rv10-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2006 11:24 PM
Subject: RV10-List: Paint experience
How much experience did you (anyone) have prior to doing your own
priming and then paint? I need to start planning. For the simplicity
of the fuse interior, it seems that I can both prime and paint with an
inexpensive gun (<$50 or<$75), then I can save up for a higher quality
exterior gun after I fly for a while.
Questions:
How's the learning curve?
How many practice pieces before committing?
What about gravity vs. standard fed guns? Meaning, how easy is it to
manipulate the gun to all the nooks and crannys with such a big cup
without losing paint flow?
Recommend pint or quart cup to cover the interior, or go with a
touch-up gun? I see on Tim's site that he only used about a quart total
for the whole inside.
Thanks,
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse Access Covers
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? |
I have the plain Bendix/Precision style silverhawk injection.
For a hot start:
No prime
Throttle cracked about 1/4-1/2"
Mixture full lean to cutoff
While cranking, as soon as it fires, rapidly move the mixture to
the normal ground lean range....maybe 1" back from full rich.
Then add or remove throttle as necessary.
When I've failed, it's because I didn't get the mixture
forward in time and it didn't stay running, and expecially
at first I was confused as to how to proceed from there....
prime, no prime, mixture cutoff, or leave it where it is.
Even back when I messed up a little, I still was able to
get it started within a couple attempts. Now days I just
don't fail the first time as often.
I still don't really have a procedure figured out for
a perfect recovery from a failed start, because it hasn't
happened more than maybe 5-6 times since I started flying,
but generally I think I'd actually give it a quick prime
and go idle cutoff for the reattempt. That one would need
some experimentation, and I'd rather just do it right
the first time. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
C Smith wrote:
>
> Any one care to share their hot start tips?????
> CS
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? |
I also have the Bendix injection system. The Lycoming engine manuel has the
following advice on hot starts:
"Because fuel percolates the system must be cleared of vapor: it is
recommended the same procedure for starting a cold engine be used for
starting a hot engine"
Don't know if this procedure assumes you have a fuel return line but it has
worked in my rather limited experience - 50 hrs. and waiting on paint shop
to finish. Tim's idea of not turning on the boost pump may prevent from
having to go to a flooded start procedure.
On another subject - I'm working on an RV-10 POH. Does anyone have a
completed POH that could be used to compare?
Mark (N410MR)
>From: Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV10-List: Hot Starts Lycoming?
>Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2006 10:34:52 -0600
>
>
>I have the plain Bendix/Precision style silverhawk injection.
>
>For a hot start:
>
>No prime
>Throttle cracked about 1/4-1/2"
>Mixture full lean to cutoff
>While cranking, as soon as it fires, rapidly move the mixture to
>the normal ground lean range....maybe 1" back from full rich.
>Then add or remove throttle as necessary.
>
>When I've failed, it's because I didn't get the mixture
>forward in time and it didn't stay running, and expecially
>at first I was confused as to how to proceed from there....
>prime, no prime, mixture cutoff, or leave it where it is.
>Even back when I messed up a little, I still was able to
>get it started within a couple attempts. Now days I just
>don't fail the first time as often.
>
>I still don't really have a procedure figured out for
>a perfect recovery from a failed start, because it hasn't
>happened more than maybe 5-6 times since I started flying,
>but generally I think I'd actually give it a quick prime
>and go idle cutoff for the reattempt. That one would need
>some experimentation, and I'd rather just do it right
>the first time. ;)
>
>Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
>do not archive
>
>
>C Smith wrote:
>>
>>Any one care to share their hot start tips?????
>>CS
>>
>>
>
>
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Engine analyzer/monitor |
Anyone looked at this system?
http://www.xerionavionix.com/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Hot Starts Lycoming? |
I think my dad uses the same as for cold start, maybe not running the boost
pump quite as long. He has the Bendix injection with 2 Slick mags and a
Slick Start.
Mixture Rich
Throttle In
Boost Pump 3-4 seconds
Mixture Lean Cutoff
Throttle 1/2" in or so
Crank till fires
Mixture Rich
Throttle Idle
Seems to work pretty well with over 300 hrs so far.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of C Smith
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Hot Starts Lycoming?
Any one care to share their hot start tips?????
CS
--
12:53 PM
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12:53 PM
Message 16
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| Subject: | Hot Starts Lycoming? |
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Hot Starts Lycoming?
I also have the Bendix injection system. The Lycoming engine manuel has the
following advice on hot starts:
"Because fuel percolates the system must be cleared of vapor: it is
recommended the same procedure for starting a cold engine be used for
starting a hot engine"
Don't know if this procedure assumes you have a fuel return line but it has
worked in my rather limited experience - 50 hrs. and waiting on paint shop
to finish. Tim's idea of not turning on the boost pump may prevent from
having to go to a flooded start procedure.
Unfortunately this doesn't work in my '04 T182T. Thanks for offering just
the same. I'm just trying to see what others are doing and what works for
them.
CS
Message 17
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| Subject: | Gear leg fairings |
When I built my RV8, I flew around for about a year before I finally
permanently installed my gear leg/ wheel fairings. Then I jacked the
plane and crawled around on the floor for many hours to get them
installed. NEVER AGAIN I said to myself, and anyone within cursing range
of my hangar.
On my RV10, I currently have the main fuselage section, with gear legs
temporarily installed, minus the tailcone, hanging from my aerolift, at
standing height. I was able to perfectly align and level the fuselage,
in all axis, using tiedown straps around the wingspars, and the boarding
steps. I drop plumb-bobs thru the centerline rivet holes down to a heavy
steel 4X8 foot table aligned beneath the fuselage. With this accurately
jigged arraignment I have been able to install and drill all the
fairings while comfortably seated at the worktable, using a series of
rulers, squares, and taught string references. One could do this just as
well with the tailcone and cabin attached, and a block and tackle system
could replace an aerolift.
This, my fourth homebuilt project, has become my challenge to be the
most organized and comfortable project it can be. If that means doing
gear leg fairings this early on, so be it.
Chris Hukill
buildus interuptus during major home remodel
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? |
Yeah, I'm sure that it's going to be somewhat dependent on
what engine, what injection system, and even what installation
airframe (cowl heat and stuff like that) that you have, so as
always, YMMV. It's funny, when I run into bonanza pilots and
some people I've flown and been around, they all seem to jump
on me with their ideas. Many have even told me before they
even asked, that I should do it the way I am. It just seems
to be that once you find the method that works for you, you
should stick with it. Fortunately, from the few posts we've
had already, you can tell that in the RV-10, with an IO-540,
using the Bendix system, there are already a few ways that
have acceptable results.
One thing for sure, when my engine is cold, (or just unplugged
in this season), it sure pops off extremely quickly. I
hardly have time to turn the key all the way and it's
running. People who take rides are often amazed it starts
without the usual cranking and 5-10 prop revolutions that
you sometimes see on the airfield.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
C Smith wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Hot Starts Lycoming?
>
>
> I also have the Bendix injection system. The Lycoming engine manuel has the
>
> following advice on hot starts:
>
> "Because fuel percolates the system must be cleared of vapor: it is
> recommended the same procedure for starting a cold engine be used for
> starting a hot engine"
>
> Don't know if this procedure assumes you have a fuel return line but it has
> worked in my rather limited experience - 50 hrs. and waiting on paint shop
> to finish. Tim's idea of not turning on the boost pump may prevent from
> having to go to a flooded start procedure.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately this doesn't work in my '04 T182T. Thanks for offering just
> the same. I'm just trying to see what others are doing and what works for
> them.
> CS
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Hot Starts Lycoming? |
I can tell you what works on my Lyc IO360-A1A with Bendix injection.
Leave mixture idle cutoff. Turn boost pump on just long enough to see
15lbs or more pressure.maybe 2 sec. Advance throttle to about 1/2".
Begin cranking. After about 5-6 blades, begin easing mixture forward
slowly. Somewhere around 1/3 of mixture travel engine will fire and
bring mixture up to maybe 2/3s and reducing throttle to 1000 rpm.
Has been very reliable for 500 hrs. I have Bendix shower of sparks
retard breaker mags and Skytec lightweight starter, which certainly
contributes with much faster crank speed.
If first try doesn't suceed...rare, but happens..wait a minute for
starter to cool, try again. If that fails, go to flooded start
procedure. 4 cyl Lycomings aren't very prone to flooding.
Cold start...wait min. 30 seconds after priming before cranking. It
lets fuel vaporize and makes for very quick start.
On 12/9/06, Tim Olson <Tim@myrv10.com> wrote:
>
> Yeah, I'm sure that it's going to be somewhat dependent on
> what engine, what injection system, and even what installation
> airframe (cowl heat and stuff like that) that you have, so as
> always, YMMV. It's funny, when I run into bonanza pilots and
> some people I've flown and been around, they all seem to jump
> on me with their ideas. Many have even told me before they
> even asked, that I should do it the way I am. It just seems
> to be that once you find the method that works for you, you
> should stick with it. Fortunately, from the few posts we've
> had already, you can tell that in the RV-10, with an IO-540,
> using the Bendix system, there are already a few ways that
> have acceptable results.
>
> One thing for sure, when my engine is cold, (or just unplugged
> in this season), it sure pops off extremely quickly. I
> hardly have time to turn the key all the way and it's
> running. People who take rides are often amazed it starts
> without the usual cranking and 5-10 prop revolutions that
> you sometimes see on the airfield.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
> do not archive
>
>
> C Smith wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Hot Starts Lycoming?
> >
> >
> > I also have the Bendix injection system. The Lycoming engine manuel has the
> >
> > following advice on hot starts:
> >
> > "Because fuel percolates the system must be cleared of vapor: it is
> > recommended the same procedure for starting a cold engine be used for
> > starting a hot engine"
> >
> > Don't know if this procedure assumes you have a fuel return line but it has
> > worked in my rather limited experience - 50 hrs. and waiting on paint shop
> > to finish. Tim's idea of not turning on the boost pump may prevent from
> > having to go to a flooded start procedure.
> >
> >
> >
> > Unfortunately this doesn't work in my '04 T182T. Thanks for offering just
> > the same. I'm just trying to see what others are doing and what works for
> > them.
> > CS
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Another Alternative Engine? |
carl.froehlich(at)cox.net wrote:
> Two problems:
> - Price (>$80K)
> - French
>
> --
I don't mind the French, but it's pretty heavy as well.
John
--------
#40572 Empennage - Starting tailcone.
N711JG reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p455#80455
Message 21
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| Subject: | Paint experience |
Use SprayGunDepot.com. I've used them a few times and never had a
problem. Got the PPS from them about a month ago along with adapters
for my guns. Haven't had a chance to use it yet though.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rodger Todd
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Paint experience
Hi Tim,
"they make a plastic liner disposable paint cup that
has it's own
integral filter. It was awesome for doing even the
undersides
of things, because as the paint got used, the liner
collapsed, keeping
it void of air for the most part"
I think you're refering to the 3M PPS system here
which is available for most guns. I'm in the process
of getting it for my Sata Minijet 4 - been on order
for over two months, the distributor is currently
waiting for the mini-cups.
See
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?6666660Zjcf6lVs6EVs66Se
ggCOrrrrQ-
or if this doesn't work then go to the 3M site and
search for PPS.
I think some one here mentioned this some months ago.
Best wishes,
Rodger
--- Tim Olson <Tim@MyRV10.com> wrote:
> <Tim@MyRV10.com>
>
> Reply inline...
>
>
> Rob Wright wrote:
> > How much experience did you (anyone) have prior to
> doing your own
> > priming and then paint? I need to start planning.
> For the simplicity
> > of the fuse interior, it seems that I can both
> prime and paint with an
> > inexpensive gun (<$50 or<$75), then I can save up
> for a higher quality
> > exterior gun after I fly for a while.
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > How's the learning curve?
> >
>
> The learning curve question is a very tough
> question. It could vary
> greatly for people. I do believe that those who are
> priming their own
> parts can benefit from the time spent priming,
> however. My advice is
> if you don't feel really comfortable, have someone
> come over who is
> when you get to the real painting, and give you a
> hand with some parts,
> or at least critique you. Most people will know
> SOMEONE who they
> can call who's painted things before, even if it's a
> friend of a
> friend. So talk about it with those close to you
> and see who
> knows who. Even if it cost you a couple hundred
> bucks for an off-duty
> auto body person for a day, you'd learn
> things....and a professional
> paid paint job will still be many THOUSANDS more.
>
>
> >
> > How many practice pieces before committing?
> >
>
> Painting isn't too bad when you get the theory down
> and have some
> practice. After doing the plane I painted and
> matched a couple of
> car pieces too, including clearcoat. The only thing
> that didn't
> turn out perfect is I did it in a dusty garage and
> got some dirt
> in the clearcoat. If you have someone get you
> started, there's no
> reason that you can't do a reasonable job. I'll
> never pay for a
> car to be painted again, from what I've found now.
> So now my
> wife can nail all the deer she wants. ;)
>
> >
> >
> > What about gravity vs. standard fed guns? Meaning,
> how easy is it to
> > manipulate the gun to all the nooks and crannys
> with such a big cup
> > without losing paint flow?
> >
> >
>
> Here's a good suggestion for you. I think the
> pressure pot guns would
> do good for people on the main color, but we didn't
> use them. But,
> the guy who helped me had a good trick. For the
> Sata guns we used,
> they make a plastic liner disposable paint cup that
> has it's own
> integral filter. It was awesome for doing even the
> undersides
> of things, because as the paint got used, the liner
> collapsed, keeping
> it void of air for the most part. This eliminated
> the issue. They
> weren't too expensive, and it was nice to just throw
> away the liners
> when done with a session. Again, a small cost
> compared to paying
> a pro.
>
> Incidently, keeping a paint job simple (which is
> what I consider mine
> to be), can help make it easier. One large single
> color base followed
> by 1 or 2 stripe colors isn't really a big deal.
> Actually, the color
> stripes are even easier to do on top of the base,
> and I found the base
> coat clearcoat to be even easier to work with in
> general. But I am
> glad I went single stage on the main color.
>
>
>
> >
> > Recommend pint or quart cup to cover the interior,
> or go with a touch-up
> > gun? I see on Tim's site that he only used about
> a quart total for the
> > whole inside.
> >
>
> The interior is harder to maneuver around than the
> exterior. I now own,
> AFTER the fact, a nice SATA MiniJet with a smaller
> cup that would be
> great for the small areas on the interior. I think
> you could use
> either, but you'll want to put any inline hose
> filters somewhere
> upstream a ways so the hose connects directly to the
> gun with a 10'
> whip instead of quick connectors. That makes it
> easier to flex
> around. I don't know what I'd do if I could do it
> all over again.
> Probably use the minijet on the interior, since it's
> such a small
> area.
>
> Either way, when you paint the plane, you're going
> to mix up larger
> batches of paint than what one gun cup will hold.
> You need to be able
> to just pour more into the gun and carry on quick,
> in order to keep
> painting along the wet edge on the larger parts.
> The good news is,
> if you can't keep up and keep the edge wet, you can
> back up to a
> seam or some spot and start that panel with a new
> edge. Anyway,
> you just don't want to have to stop and mix more
> paint during a large
> shoot if possible. It also might be nice, if you
> have the time
> and space to do it, to do a couple major pieces at a
> time. Like
> the day you do the fuselage, don't do anything else.
> Do the wings
> another day. Then do the small parts another day.
> That helps
> break things up.
>
> For my next plane, I may even just plastic line my
> garage and do
> the entire thing there, as the color striped we did
> there turned
> out fine. I'd just need to get some blower/filter
> stuff set up
> but I could do that cheap enough to still make the
> entire job
> a bargain over a paid-for pro job. Mine isn't the
> prettiest
> plane out there, but it still seems to look good to
> most
> people from what I can tell.
>
> Tim
>
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> >
> > Rob Wright
> >
> > #392
> >
> > Fuse Access Covers
> >
> > *
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
>
=== message truncated ==
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For those past the Access Covers section (35), last page where it shows the
bolt access covers, F-1050B. When holding mine up to their install
location, they don't seem to match up very well or I'll need to introduce a
crease to make them sit flush. Wonder what others' experiences have been
and any pics if available. Looks like if I installed them right now it
would overlap the powder coated angle on the fwd end and underlap it on the
rear end of the cover.
Sorry no pics yet I didn't have the camera with me today.
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse Access Covers
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