Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:16 AM - Re: Battery Wire (Russell Daves)
2. 03:39 AM - EFIS & GPS Antennas (Russell Daves)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt (Tim Olson)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: EFIS & GPS Antennas (ddddsp1@juno.com)
5. 07:34 AM - Not about Priming (MauleDriver)
6. 08:10 AM - Re: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt (Scott Schmidt)
7. 08:18 AM - portable gps systems (Bill and Tami Britton)
8. 08:44 AM - Re: Not about Priming (John Gonzalez)
9. 09:16 AM - Re: portable gps systems (ddddsp1@juno.com)
10. 09:25 AM - Re: Not about Priming (Deems Davis)
11. 09:55 AM - Re: Not about Priming (Steve Stella)
12. 10:28 AM - Re: portable gps systems (LIKE2LOOP@aol.com)
13. 11:05 AM - Re: Not about Priming (James Hein)
14. 11:38 AM - Re: Not about Priming (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
15. 11:45 AM - Re: Not about Priming (Steve Stella)
16. 11:45 AM - Re: Not about Priming (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
17. 11:51 AM - Re: Not about Priming (Chris , Susie Darcy)
18. 11:51 AM - Re: Not about Priming (Chris , Susie Darcy)
19. 12:18 PM - Re: Not about Priming (James K Hovis)
20. 12:21 PM - De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (John Gonzalez)
21. 12:35 PM - Re: Not about Priming (Chris , Susie Darcy)
22. 12:53 PM - Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (Deems Davis)
23. 12:54 PM - Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (Randy DeBauw)
24. 01:01 PM - Running wires in Tunnel (Chris , Susie Darcy)
25. 01:10 PM - Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (Jesse Saint)
26. 01:34 PM - Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (John Gonzalez)
27. 01:40 PM - Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (McGANN, Ron)
28. 01:53 PM - Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (Chris , Susie Darcy)
29. 01:53 PM - Re: Not about Priming (Lloyd, Daniel R.)
30. 02:16 PM - Re: quiet (Dj Merrill)
31. 02:24 PM - Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (Tim Olson)
32. 02:24 PM - Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. (Tim Olson)
33. 02:50 PM - Re: Not about Priming (Jesse Saint)
34. 04:25 PM - Re: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt (Tim Olson)
35. 05:25 PM - =?us-ascii?Q?Re:_One_of_the_best_moves_I've_made_yet_-_Redux? (Les Kearney)
36. 06:26 PM - Re: portable gps systems (David M.)
37. 09:11 PM - Re: Not about Priming (Rob Wright)
38. 09:37 PM - Re: Not about Priming (KiloPapa)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Battery Wire |
I think it was 13 feet but you need to run a line to be sure.
Russ
Do Not Archive
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | EFIS & GPS Antennas |
Scott:
You might want to look at whether or not you have any metal near your
Magnetometer. I installed my magnetometers (duel) on a shelf above the
battery but failed to realize that the metal screws I used on the shelf
tray were causing interference.
As far as the GPS antenna, having it under the fairing at the vertical
stabilizer is way wrong for two reasons. 1. Cable run length too long
and 2. the vertical stabilizer is interfering with the GPS look up
anytime you turn.
For my GPS antennas I built two mounting trays under the glare shield
and cut out a 6" metal square above the trays and fiberglassed them in
and have two GPS antenna's in one tray and one GPS and one WX Weather
antenna in the other tray and have no problem whatsoever. Since you are
already up and flying I would recommend that you attach a tray on the
firewall center top and put all of your antennas under the firewall. My
buddy flying an RV-6 did this and it works great.
Russ Daves
N710RV
First Flight 7/28/06
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt |
See inline...
Scott Schmidt wrote:
>
> I don't have much to report on the Cheltons vs. the Grand Rapids yet. I
> still have not been able to get my magnetometer to work on the Grand
> Rapids. I think this then causes some other problems with the moving
> map. I have not been at all impressed with the AHRS on the Grand Rapids
> yet either. It is only completely level 50% of the time at this point.
> Most of that is my fault though. It usually takes 2:30 seconds to align
> and I don't have the patience. The Cheltons have been bullet proof on
> that. No matter what angle the plane is sitting, I can be moving or
> sitting, it is always dead on. The only issue I have with the Chelton's
> right now is the GPS antenna. The Crossbow antenna is under my rear
> fairing near the Vertical Stab and I lose signal quite often. I would
> never try an IFR approach until I upgrade it to the PinPoint AHRS. The
> Chelton's are absolutely amazing when it comes to linking with the
> autopilot as well. I like the engine page much better on the Grand
> Rapids though. I have been spending my time learning the Cheltons and
> haven't given the Grand Rapids a fair shake. But if I had to pick one,
> the Chelton's by far appear to be more reliable, look nicer and are
> easier to work. Just getting the Grand Rapids to GOTO an airport is not
> nearly as easy as the Cheltons. I am going to figure out my
> magnetometer issue over the next couple of weeks. Once I get everything
> working on both I will fly with both, shoot some approaches with both,
> and get back to you all.
>
That antenna location is pretty far from ideal, I hate to say. If
you get the antenna from D2AV that you'll use with the pinpoint,
or even work a deal with them so you can buy that antenna, and get
a credit when your pinpoint ships, then your options get much better.
It's interesting that the stinkin' little antenna was actually what
was spec'd by your current AHRS manufacturer. You really want to
give that thing a good view from the sky. I saw Russ's reply, but
what he doesn't know is that your AHRS isn't under the panel, so
your best cable length would actually be if you do like me and just
mount that antenna forward on the aluminum section of tailcone.
The same antenna will work for the pinpoint as the crossbow. You
do need to get a short 2' SMA to TNC cable, which I have contact
info for if you need. But once you do that, your GPS situation will
be great. I've actually never once lost GPS signal, and that's with
either AHRS system.
> As for the Grand Champion John, I hate to disappoint but I don't have
> it. I've been to Oshkosh 12 years in a row and have looked at the Grand
> Champions and the guys who just miss and the difference between the
> Grand Champion and second place is 5000 hours. The Glasair Grand
> Champion (a few years ago) I think spent something like 9000 hours
> building his. It takes 6000 - 10000 hours to build a Grand Champion. I
> have 3000 hours in mine and it is nice and looks great but I never built
> it to be a show winner. I just wanted a nice looking plane that didn't
> look "home-made" (as my friends wife calls it). I also plan to fly too
> much to ever keep it a show winner. I have been flying now for 58 days
> and I have 75.4 hours on the hobbs. I already have a few chips on the
> paint around the doors and I have one spot around my pilot window where
> my fiberglass tape didn't hold up and I have a 6" crack in the paint at
> the joint between the window and the door. So far I've been able to
> prevent the crack everywhere else that a few people have been getting at
> the joint between the window and the fiberglass with a 1" strip of light
> fiberglass cloth. The only way to fix that is to redo the door but I
> have way too much fun flying. Maybe I'll fix that if I have a couple of
> weeks of bad flying weather. I keep scaring my wife by telling her that
> we have almost used up 5% of the engine in the first two months of
> flying.
Well, your plane looks like you did nicer than me on a few things, but
I know exactly how you feel. You're more pilot than builder, and your
plane is more "ultra-cool-transportation" than "don't touch me and
stand back while while my owner polishes me endlessly" to you. I've
got rock chips in the paint, and the usual wear and tear you'd expect
at 180 hours, but it's been way more fun flying it than just sitting
in the chair admiring it. To me, the true beauty of the plane can
only be seen from the front seats, when you're blasting through the
clouds to clear skies above....or when you're cruising above some of
the beautiful locations on our earth while moving 170kts. When I
see people get obsessed over the shape of the interior door handles
and things like that, I just chuckle. When I'm flying the plane,
I don't even notice the door handles. It's what's in front of
your eyes and out your windows that matters. I'm just glad to see
you're getting lots of use out of your plane, and that you still
report back here to us.
Safe Flying, Scott!
Tim
>
> I'll get back to you on the EFIS systems when I feel like I know both of
> them much better.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:28 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt
>
>
> Scott, my heart goes out to you.
>
> Randy must have known that, cause the first time I boarded N610RV he was
> quick to point out that two humans (of my ballast) cannot mount the
> RV-10 aircraft at the same point in time.
>
> Builders Note: Only one POB on any given step at the same point in
> time. Share the excitement of loading for a flight - one at a time.
>
> Trivia from the latest FAA AC43.13-2A, Chapter Three - Page 14, Section
> 38. When installed, the 3/8-16 UNC eyebolt (not provided in the kit) has
> a frontal area of about 0.4231875 sq. inches and using the formula from
> the AC43.13-1B that would make the factors in Drag = .000327 * Area *
> velocity squared. So at that magic 208 mph, your drag might have been
> as high as 5.986972368 pounds. That's no light bag of potatoes for us
> Hot Rodders. Now what formulation did you use to convert drag factor
> into lost mph at cruise? How are the headers working out? Do you have
> any input on Grand Rapids vs. Chelton yet? Isn't your engine an
> Aerosport?
>
> Hope the repair goes quickly and your painter is as good at Spot Work as
> complete repaint. I am waiting for Sun N' Fun and a Grand Champion
> RV-10. May you have gentle breezes, light tailwinds and clear skies into
> the spring.
>
> John Cox
> #40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 9:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt
>
> Hi guys, just wanted to let you all know about an incident I had today
> that could have been prevented. I flew down to Mesquite NV. last
> Thursday and was getting ready to fly back today. As I was loading and
> getting ready to fly back to Salt Lake City, I took out the eye bolts
> for the tie downs. I then loaded two people in the back with luggage.
> The plane was pointed slightly up hill and then both me and my friend
> stepped on the step and the plane rocked back. I got off but the plane
> continued to fall back and the tail hit the ground. It slightly bent
> the bottom fuselage skin at the very rear and cracked the rear
> fiberglass fairing on the rudder. I will have to replace it and repaint
> it. It really isn't a big deal but I'm going to replace the whole
> fiberglass peice. There would be no scratches or damage at all if I
> would have left the rear tie down in. It would have hit the ground.
> I never thought it would rock back but it did. It was on a slope and
> the wind was blowing pretty hard that pushed the rear of the plane down
> even more.
>
> Moral of the story: Put the eye bolt in and keep it there. Don't be
> like me and worry about the .0345256395734 mph that you lose with the
> eye bolt. You can still take out the wing bolts.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> N104XP - 72 hours
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: EFIS & GPS Antennas |
Russ do you have pics of your GPS mounts under the glare shield?
Dean
40449
________________________________________________________________________
<html><P>Russ do you have pics of your GPS mounts under the glare shield
?</P>
<P>Dean</P>
<P>40449</P>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
Visit <a href="http://www.juno.com/value">http://www.juno.com/value</a
> to sign up today!<br></font>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
I finally primed my first parts (most tail surfaces primed at
Alexander's Tech Center). The specs:
- used the Industrial Wash Primer that Vans says they use on the QB. 1:2
Catalyst mix (should have used 1:1.5 as recommended)
- bought a cheapo 'trim gun' from Harbour Freight - 4oz cup
- Prepped parts by washing down with Coleman fuel and a red scotchbrite
(thanks all for that discussion)
- I did scuff the skins after dimpling. It does destroy the
scotchbrite especially since I've chosen not to deburr skin holes, but
the scotchbrite effectively deburrs 3/32 thin skin holes in my estimation
- Did the priming in my hangar, wore a filter mask (no fresh air), ran
fans, on a 60deg day. But kept the primer and gun in my 75deg shop
until shooting.
It all seems to have worked well despite my beginner's spray technique.
The thin coat I laid on is translucent greenish gold, rather attractive
but not uniform. Seems to have bonded tightly with the aluminum. In a
strange way it seems tougher than the 2 part epoxy on my other tail
parts even though it is thinner. I'm going to go with it.
Just sharing
Bill "I hate all paint, finishes, and primers" Watson - stapling up the
elevators & trim tabs, ready to dissassemble the tailcone, looking at
the QB components littering the hangar.
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt |
Tim, I was under the impression the from Direct 2 Avionics that the
Pinpoint GPS antenna was not compatible with the Crossbow. I really
want to put a standard aircraft GPS antenna next to my Garmin 430
antenna then I know the problem will be fixed. I was told the baud rate
was different between the Pinpoint and Crossbow antenna. I will give
them a call today.
Scott Schmidt
sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:16 AM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt
See inline...
Scott Schmidt wrote:
<sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
>
> I don't have much to report on the Cheltons vs. the Grand Rapids yet.
I
> still have not been able to get my magnetometer to work on the Grand
> Rapids. I think this then causes some other problems with the moving
> map. I have not been at all impressed with the AHRS on the Grand
Rapids
> yet either. It is only completely level 50% of the time at this
point.
> Most of that is my fault though. It usually takes 2:30 seconds to
align
> and I don't have the patience. The Cheltons have been bullet proof on
> that. No matter what angle the plane is sitting, I can be moving or
> sitting, it is always dead on. The only issue I have with the
Chelton's
> right now is the GPS antenna. The Crossbow antenna is under my rear
> fairing near the Vertical Stab and I lose signal quite often. I would
> never try an IFR approach until I upgrade it to the PinPoint AHRS.
The
> Chelton's are absolutely amazing when it comes to linking with the
> autopilot as well. I like the engine page much better on the Grand
> Rapids though. I have been spending my time learning the Cheltons and
> haven't given the Grand Rapids a fair shake. But if I had to pick
one,
> the Chelton's by far appear to be more reliable, look nicer and are
> easier to work. Just getting the Grand Rapids to GOTO an airport is
not
> nearly as easy as the Cheltons. I am going to figure out my
> magnetometer issue over the next couple of weeks. Once I get
everything
> working on both I will fly with both, shoot some approaches with both,
> and get back to you all.
>
That antenna location is pretty far from ideal, I hate to say. If
you get the antenna from D2AV that you'll use with the pinpoint,
or even work a deal with them so you can buy that antenna, and get
a credit when your pinpoint ships, then your options get much better.
It's interesting that the stinkin' little antenna was actually what
was spec'd by your current AHRS manufacturer. You really want to
give that thing a good view from the sky. I saw Russ's reply, but
what he doesn't know is that your AHRS isn't under the panel, so
your best cable length would actually be if you do like me and just
mount that antenna forward on the aluminum section of tailcone.
The same antenna will work for the pinpoint as the crossbow. You
do need to get a short 2' SMA to TNC cable, which I have contact
info for if you need. But once you do that, your GPS situation will
be great. I've actually never once lost GPS signal, and that's with
either AHRS system.
> As for the Grand Champion John, I hate to disappoint but I don't have
> it. I've been to Oshkosh 12 years in a row and have looked at the
Grand
> Champions and the guys who just miss and the difference between the
> Grand Champion and second place is 5000 hours. The Glasair Grand
> Champion (a few years ago) I think spent something like 9000 hours
> building his. It takes 6000 - 10000 hours to build a Grand Champion.
I
> have 3000 hours in mine and it is nice and looks great but I never
built
> it to be a show winner. I just wanted a nice looking plane that
didn't
> look "home-made" (as my friends wife calls it). I also plan to fly too
> much to ever keep it a show winner. I have been flying now for 58
days
> and I have 75.4 hours on the hobbs. I already have a few chips on the
> paint around the doors and I have one spot around my pilot window
where
> my fiberglass tape didn't hold up and I have a 6" crack in the paint
at
> the joint between the window and the door. So far I've been able to
> prevent the crack everywhere else that a few people have been getting
at
> the joint between the window and the fiberglass with a 1" strip of
light
> fiberglass cloth. The only way to fix that is to redo the door but I
> have way too much fun flying. Maybe I'll fix that if I have a couple
of
> weeks of bad flying weather. I keep scaring my wife by telling her
that
> we have almost used up 5% of the engine in the first two months of
> flying.
Well, your plane looks like you did nicer than me on a few things, but
I know exactly how you feel. You're more pilot than builder, and your
plane is more "ultra-cool-transportation" than "don't touch me and
stand back while while my owner polishes me endlessly" to you. I've
got rock chips in the paint, and the usual wear and tear you'd expect
at 180 hours, but it's been way more fun flying it than just sitting
in the chair admiring it. To me, the true beauty of the plane can
only be seen from the front seats, when you're blasting through the
clouds to clear skies above....or when you're cruising above some of
the beautiful locations on our earth while moving 170kts. When I
see people get obsessed over the shape of the interior door handles
and things like that, I just chuckle. When I'm flying the plane,
I don't even notice the door handles. It's what's in front of
your eyes and out your windows that matters. I'm just glad to see
you're getting lots of use out of your plane, and that you still
report back here to us.
Safe Flying, Scott!
Tim
>
> I'll get back to you on the EFIS systems when I feel like I know both
of
> them much better.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:28 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt
>
<johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>
> Scott, my heart goes out to you.
>
> Randy must have known that, cause the first time I boarded N610RV he
was
> quick to point out that two humans (of my ballast) cannot mount the
> RV-10 aircraft at the same point in time.
>
> Builders Note: Only one POB on any given step at the same point in
> time. Share the excitement of loading for a flight - one at a time.
>
> Trivia from the latest FAA AC43.13-2A, Chapter Three - Page 14,
Section
> 38. When installed, the 3/8-16 UNC eyebolt (not provided in the kit)
has
> a frontal area of about 0.4231875 sq. inches and using the formula
from
> the AC43.13-1B that would make the factors in Drag = .000327 * Area *
> velocity squared. So at that magic 208 mph, your drag might have been
> as high as 5.986972368 pounds. That's no light bag of potatoes for us
> Hot Rodders. Now what formulation did you use to convert drag factor
> into lost mph at cruise? How are the headers working out? Do you
have
> any input on Grand Rapids vs. Chelton yet? Isn't your engine an
> Aerosport?
>
> Hope the repair goes quickly and your painter is as good at Spot Work
as
> complete repaint. I am waiting for Sun N' Fun and a Grand Champion
> RV-10. May you have gentle breezes, light tailwinds and clear skies
into
> the spring.
>
> John Cox
> #40600
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Schmidt
> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 9:21 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt
>
> Hi guys, just wanted to let you all know about an incident I had today
> that could have been prevented. I flew down to Mesquite NV. last
> Thursday and was getting ready to fly back today. As I was loading
and
> getting ready to fly back to Salt Lake City, I took out the eye bolts
> for the tie downs. I then loaded two people in the back with luggage.
> The plane was pointed slightly up hill and then both me and my friend
> stepped on the step and the plane rocked back. I got off but the
plane
> continued to fall back and the tail hit the ground. It slightly bent
> the bottom fuselage skin at the very rear and cracked the rear
> fiberglass fairing on the rudder. I will have to replace it and
repaint
> it. It really isn't a big deal but I'm going to replace the whole
> fiberglass peice. There would be no scratches or damage at all if I
> would have left the rear tie down in. It would have hit the ground.
> I never thought it would rock back but it did. It was on a slope and
> the wind was blowing pretty hard that pushed the rear of the plane
down
> even more.
>
> Moral of the story: Put the eye bolt in and keep it there. Don't be
> like me and worry about the .0345256395734 mph that you lose with the
> eye bolt. You can still take out the wing bolts.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> N104XP - 72 hours
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | portable gps systems |
This is a little off beat but if there's any group that knows gps
systems, it's this one. I'm looking at buying my wife a portable GPS
system for her van for Christmas. I'm going to try to keep it under
$500ish. Has anybody done any research on the different units available
(TOMTOM, Magellan, Garmin, etc...). It won't get a lot of use (we live
in rural Kansas) which is why I want to keep the price down. However,
I've been in vehicles with similar units and in my opinion they are very
nice for getting around unfamiliar areas.
Any ideas/opinions on choices???
Thanks in advance,
Bill Britton
RV-10 emp (still)
#40137
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
In my estimation, I think the hole deburring is one of the most important
steps in the longevity of the rivets and the health of the holes they sit
in. The dimple produces a lot of stress to the aluminum and it should be
smoothed before it goes into the dimpler...I would reconsider this skipped
step!
"It does destroy the scotchbrite especially since I've chosen not to deburr
skin holes, but the scotchbrite effectively deburrs 3/32 thin skin holes in
my estimation"
The scotchbrite pad or wheel does not spin inside the hole to do an
effective enough job.
JMOO
JOhn G.
I need to make a deburring tool that is held like a grape before you put it
in your mouth.
>From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>To: RV10-List Digest Server <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: Not about Priming
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:32:53 -0500
>
>
>I finally primed my first parts (most tail surfaces primed at Alexander's
>Tech Center). The specs:
>- used the Industrial Wash Primer that Vans says they use on the QB. 1:2
>Catalyst mix (should have used 1:1.5 as recommended)
>- bought a cheapo 'trim gun' from Harbour Freight - 4oz cup
>- Prepped parts by washing down with Coleman fuel and a red scotchbrite
>(thanks all for that discussion)
> - I did scuff the skins after dimpling. It does destroy the scotchbrite
>especially since I've chosen not to deburr skin holes, but the scotchbrite
>effectively deburrs 3/32 thin skin holes in my estimation
>- Did the priming in my hangar, wore a filter mask (no fresh air), ran
>fans, on a 60deg day. But kept the primer and gun in my 75deg shop until
>shooting.
>
>It all seems to have worked well despite my beginner's spray technique.
>The thin coat I laid on is translucent greenish gold, rather attractive but
>not uniform. Seems to have bonded tightly with the aluminum. In a strange
>way it seems tougher than the 2 part epoxy on my other tail parts even
>though it is thinner. I'm going to go with it.
>
>Just sharing
>
>Bill "I hate all paint, finishes, and primers" Watson - stapling up the
>elevators & trim tabs, ready to dissassemble the tailcone, looking at the
>QB components littering the hangar.
>
>
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: portable gps systems |
Bought my parents the Lowrance Iway 500 for Christmas. $488 It has
the 5 inch screen where most are the 3.5 inch. Touch screen, audible d
irections, etc. The big reason I bought it vs the garmin 330 was readab
ility in direct sunlight and the larger screen.
Dean 40449
________________________________________________________________________
<html><P>Bought my parents the Lowrance Iway 500 for Christmas. &nb
sp; $488 It has the 5 inch screen where most are the 3
.5 inch. Touch screen, audible directions, etc. The bi
g reason I bought it vs the garmin 330 was readability in direct sunligh
t and the larger screen.</P>
<P>Dean 40449</P>
<font face="Times-New-Roman" size="2"><br><br>______________________
__________________________________________________<br>
Visit <a href="http://www.juno.com/value">http://www.juno.com/value</a
> to sign up today!<br></font>
<pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
</b></font></pre></body></html>
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Not about Priming |
There's a simple exercise re deburring that provides some visual
evidence of the differences that I picked up from Dan Checkoway, Take a
non deburred hole and dimple it then take a magnifying glass and examine
the edges. I'll bet that with a hole that was drilled with a drill bit,
you will see cracks around the dimpled perimeter, do the same with a
properly deburred hole and then compare the difference.
Now with all of that said, I'm not sure deburring will cause your plane
to fall out of the sky, for me it was a mental peace of mind issue.
However Ture confessions: there have been times when I forgot to deburr
a few holes prior to riveting and I didn't drill them out and deburr.
Some one mentioned that during WWII when they were mass producing P51's
that they didn't deburr every hole or sheet metal edge in those at the time.
As with everything in an experimental plane you pays your money and
takes your chances.
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> In my estimation, I think the hole deburring is one of the most
> important steps in the longevity of the rivets and the health of the
> holes they sit in. The dimple produces a lot of stress to the aluminum
> and it should be smoothed before it goes into the dimpler...I would
> reconsider this skipped step!
>
> "It does destroy the scotchbrite especially since I've chosen not to
> deburr skin holes, but the scotchbrite effectively deburrs 3/32 thin
> skin holes in my estimation"
>
> The scotchbrite pad or wheel does not spin inside the hole to do an
> effective enough job.
>
> JMOO
>
> JOhn G.
>
> I need to make a deburring tool that is held like a grape before you
> put it in your mouth.
>
>
>> From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>> To: RV10-List Digest Server <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV10-List: Not about Priming
>> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:32:53 -0500
>>
>>
>> I finally primed my first parts (most tail surfaces primed at
>> Alexander's Tech Center). The specs:
>> - used the Industrial Wash Primer that Vans says they use on the QB.
>> 1:2 Catalyst mix (should have used 1:1.5 as recommended)
>> - bought a cheapo 'trim gun' from Harbour Freight - 4oz cup
>> - Prepped parts by washing down with Coleman fuel and a red
>> scotchbrite (thanks all for that discussion)
>> - I did scuff the skins after dimpling. It does destroy the
>> scotchbrite especially since I've chosen not to deburr skin holes,
>> but the scotchbrite effectively deburrs 3/32 thin skin holes in my
>> estimation
>> - Did the priming in my hangar, wore a filter mask (no fresh air),
>> ran fans, on a 60deg day. But kept the primer and gun in my 75deg
>> shop until shooting.
>>
>> It all seems to have worked well despite my beginner's spray
>> technique. The thin coat I laid on is translucent greenish gold,
>> rather attractive but not uniform. Seems to have bonded tightly with
>> the aluminum. In a strange way it seems tougher than the 2 part
>> epoxy on my other tail parts even though it is thinner. I'm going to
>> go with it.
>>
>> Just sharing
>>
>> Bill "I hate all paint, finishes, and primers" Watson - stapling up
>> the elevators & trim tabs, ready to dissassemble the tailcone,
>> looking at the QB components littering the hangar.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
If you read the Standard Aircraft Handbook that comes with the kit it tells
not to deburr holes that will be dimpled.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 11:42 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Not about Priming
In my estimation, I think the hole deburring is one of the most important
steps in the longevity of the rivets and the health of the holes they sit
in. The dimple produces a lot of stress to the aluminum and it should be
smoothed before it goes into the dimpler...I would reconsider this skipped
step!
"It does destroy the scotchbrite especially since I've chosen not to deburr
skin holes, but the scotchbrite effectively deburrs 3/32 thin skin holes in
my estimation"
The scotchbrite pad or wheel does not spin inside the hole to do an
effective enough job.
JMOO
JOhn G.
I need to make a deburring tool that is held like a grape before you put it
in your mouth.
>From: MauleDriver <MauleDriver@nc.rr.com>
>To: RV10-List Digest Server <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV10-List: Not about Priming
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 10:32:53 -0500
>
>
>I finally primed my first parts (most tail surfaces primed at Alexander's
>Tech Center). The specs:
>- used the Industrial Wash Primer that Vans says they use on the QB. 1:2
>Catalyst mix (should have used 1:1.5 as recommended)
>- bought a cheapo 'trim gun' from Harbour Freight - 4oz cup
>- Prepped parts by washing down with Coleman fuel and a red scotchbrite
>(thanks all for that discussion)
> - I did scuff the skins after dimpling. It does destroy the scotchbrite
>especially since I've chosen not to deburr skin holes, but the scotchbrite
>effectively deburrs 3/32 thin skin holes in my estimation
>- Did the priming in my hangar, wore a filter mask (no fresh air), ran
>fans, on a 60deg day. But kept the primer and gun in my 75deg shop until
>shooting.
>
>It all seems to have worked well despite my beginner's spray technique.
>The thin coat I laid on is translucent greenish gold, rather attractive but
>not uniform. Seems to have bonded tightly with the aluminum. In a strange
>way it seems tougher than the 2 part epoxy on my other tail parts even
>though it is thinner. I'm going to go with it.
>
>Just sharing
>
>Bill "I hate all paint, finishes, and primers" Watson - stapling up the
>elevators & trim tabs, ready to dissassemble the tailcone, looking at the
>QB components littering the hangar.
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: portable gps systems |
In a message dated 12/13/2006 11:21:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
william@gbta.net writes:
I'm looking at buying my wife a portable GPS system for her van for
Christmas. I'm going to try to keep it under $500ish. Has anybody done any research
on the different units available (TOMTOM, Magellan, Garmin, etc...). It won't
get a lot of use (we live in rural Kansas) which is why I want to keep the
price down.
I bought the Garmin Nuvi 350 last month. Excellent unit, and very small
(about the size of a deck of cards), with the same size screen as the street
pilot 330 without the big dome back. More internal memory, comes with all of
North America Database installed. It also is capable of doing language
translation, and book on SD card.
It is NOT bluetooth compatible, if that is important to you, go up to
the next Nuvi model, the 360. We paid $399, at Best Buy, at 5:00am on "Black
Friday". Wal-Mart (aka - west China outlet store) had them on sale last
week for $388, today they were at $454. The Nuvi calls out street names, which
is much more user friendly vs "Turn in 300 feet".
Oh yea... took it on the airline on the way back to FLA. It now has 509
mph as the maximum speed!!!
do not archive
Steve
Stephen G. Blank,DDS
RV-10 #40499 Building the Elevators
Cessna 170b Flyer
Port St Lucie, FL
772-475-5556 cell
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Not about Priming |
Page 5-2 from Van's (The document called "Useful Information") states:
"All drilled holes should also be deburred ...... Burrs around holes are
a problem mainly in riveting and dimple countersinking..... "
-Jim 40384
Steve Stella wrote:
>
> If you read the Standard Aircraft Handbook that comes with the kit it tells
> not to deburr holes that will be dimpled.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
You are reading from Van's recommendations in the builders manual, if
you go to the aircraft standards book and read about deburring, the only
mention is to deburr for parts storage and to prevent scratches from
material touching, it states nothing about deburring for hole integrity.
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
Page 5-2 from Van's (The document called "Useful Information") states:
"All drilled holes should also be deburred ...... Burrs around holes are
a problem mainly in riveting and dimple countersinking..... "
-Jim 40384
Steve Stella wrote:
<sstella@incisaledge.com>
>
> If you read the Standard Aircraft Handbook that comes with the kit it
tells
> not to deburr holes that will be dimpled.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
I wonder why the difference of opinion between Vans and the Aircraft
Handbook?
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
Page 5-2 from Van's (The document called "Useful Information") states:
"All drilled holes should also be deburred ...... Burrs around holes are
a problem mainly in riveting and dimple countersinking..... "
-Jim 40384
Steve Stella wrote:
>
> If you read the Standard Aircraft Handbook that comes with the kit it
tells
> not to deburr holes that will be dimpled.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
Just as a follow up to my last, the primary reason to remove burrs would
to ensure the rivet or dimple set seats correctly and does not get upset
by the burr.
While I do agree with Dan and Deems, looking at the hole after deburr it
does appear smoother on the lip, but the striations from the drilling
process go all the way through the hole, IE even after deburring they
are still in the interior of the hole, and you can see this after the
dimple is formed because more of the interior of the hole is exposed.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
Page 5-2 from Van's (The document called "Useful Information") states:
"All drilled holes should also be deburred ...... Burrs around holes are
a problem mainly in riveting and dimple countersinking..... "
-Jim 40384
Steve Stella wrote:
<sstella@incisaledge.com>
>
> If you read the Standard Aircraft Handbook that comes with the kit it
tells
> not to deburr holes that will be dimpled.
>
> Steve
>
>
>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Not about Priming |
Oh dear....just ask any aircraft engineer!! You should deburr all edges and
holes to stop cracks.
Chris 388
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:36 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Not about Priming
>
> You are reading from Van's recommendations in the builders manual, if
> you go to the aircraft standards book and read about deburring, the only
> mention is to deburr for parts storage and to prevent scratches from
> material touching, it states nothing about deburring for hole integrity.
> Dan
> N289DT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:04 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
>
>
> Page 5-2 from Van's (The document called "Useful Information") states:
>
> "All drilled holes should also be deburred ...... Burrs around holes are
>
> a problem mainly in riveting and dimple countersinking..... "
>
> -Jim 40384
>
>
> Steve Stella wrote:
> <sstella@incisaledge.com>
>>
>> If you read the Standard Aircraft Handbook that comes with the kit it
> tells
>> not to deburr holes that will be dimpled.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Not about Priming |
Who cares just deburr!!
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Stella" <sstella@incisaledge.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:43 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Not about Priming
>
> I wonder why the difference of opinion between Vans and the Aircraft
> Handbook?
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:04 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
>
>
> Page 5-2 from Van's (The document called "Useful Information") states:
>
> "All drilled holes should also be deburred ...... Burrs around holes are
> a problem mainly in riveting and dimple countersinking..... "
>
> -Jim 40384
>
>
> Steve Stella wrote:
>>
>> If you read the Standard Aircraft Handbook that comes with the kit it
> tells
>> not to deburr holes that will be dimpled.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Not about Priming |
Not necessarily. Recent testing shows burrs around fastener holes
don't have significant impact on the strength of structure. Main
driving factor is skin thickness vs burr height. Thicker stock (used
in larger aircraft) can stand larger burrs. Key thing is to prevent
burrs. Keep your bits sharp, don't push hard while drilling, and keep
your parts well cleco'ed together. I don't know what thickness is
typical in the RV-10, I'd assume .032" or .025" stock. If you're
getting .004" or less burrs, then anything other than a quick "hit"
with scotchbrite is probably a waste of time. Typical deburr operation
in the factory is either use as file-like tool (patented by someone I
actually know...) to run across the back sides of skins or use a
drill-motor and sanding disk. For thin sheet stock, I'd prefer doing
it by hand. And if you deburr BEFORE dimpling, you shouldn't have any
need to deburr afterwards. Bottom line, deburr probably makes fastener
installation easier, but may not do much to improve the structural
"soundness" of the airframe.
JKH
PS: BSAE 1989 U of Mo-Rolla
17+ years aircraft design engineer for a "major" midwest aircraft builder.
On 12/13/06, Chris , Susie Darcy <VHMUM@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
> Oh dear....just ask any aircraft engineer!! You should deburr all edges and
> holes to stop cracks.
>
> Chris 388
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
> To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 6:36 AM
> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Not about Priming
>
>
> >
> > You are reading from Van's recommendations in the builders manual, if
> > you go to the aircraft standards book and read about deburring, the only
> > mention is to deburr for parts storage and to prevent scratches from
> > material touching, it states nothing about deburring for hole integrity.
> > Dan
> > N289DT
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Hein
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 2:04 PM
> > To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
> >
> >
> > Page 5-2 from Van's (The document called "Useful Information") states:
> >
> > "All drilled holes should also be deburred ...... Burrs around holes are
> >
> > a problem mainly in riveting and dimple countersinking..... "
> >
> > -Jim 40384
> >
> >
> > Steve Stella wrote:
> > <sstella@incisaledge.com>
> >>
> >> If you read the Standard Aircraft Handbook that comes with the kit it
> > tells
> >> not to deburr holes that will be dimpled.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was about
the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables and
wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that fatboy
wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some serious
space.
I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is really
space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel, beneath the lid.
First is there room and second would it be cool enough to run wire in there?
Thanks,
John G
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Not about Priming |
OK ask Vans!! They say deburr from Ken Kruegar chief engineer Vans!!
Chris 388
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
John, I didn't run any wires in the tunnel, I believe that Mike Sausen
ran (or is planning on running his #2 Battery /Starter wire/s in his
tunnel, however I think he ran them lower next to the fuel lines. (check
his web site on Kitlog.com) I know that a couple of people that have
installed air conditioning systems have run the compressor hoses inside
the tunnel. One consideration is that you need to drill through the
centersection spars if you're going to run wire in there. It gets pretty
crowded in there with Scat tubes, fuel lines and control linkages, seems
like adding more 'stuff' in an already crowded space would be more
difficult than running them down the side. JMHO
Deems Davis # 406
Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
http://deemsrv10.com/
Trying to align wheel pants/fairings (a game of chance!)
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was
> about the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
>
> Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables
> and wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that
> fatboy wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some
> serious space.
>
> I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is
> really space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel,
> beneath the lid. First is there room and second would it be cool
> enough to run wire in there?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G
>
>
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
I did not run any wires from front to back using the tunnel. I just
drilled a couple of extra holes to match the holes in the fuse. Randy
40006
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was
about
the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables and
wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that
fatboy
wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some serious
space.
I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is really
space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel, beneath the
lid.
First is there room and second would it be cool enough to run wire in
there?
Thanks,
John G
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Running wires in Tunnel |
Yes!
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 7:20 AM
Subject: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
>
> No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was about
> the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
>
> Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables and
> wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that fatboy
> wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some serious
> space.
>
> I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is really
> space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel, beneath the lid.
> First is there room and second would it be cool enough to run wire in
> there?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G
>
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
My vote would be that it is best to keep it out of the tunnel if you can.
The only thing I would run would be low The heat is one issue, of course.
The next issue is the amount of moving parts in there that you would have to
avoid (ie. Elevator controls, flap controls, rudder cables). The third
issue would be the fact that you would have to have quite a few screws into
the side of the tunnel to hold the wires in cushion clamps. Another issue
is that there is fuel in there so it would be wise to avoid having too many
things that could cause a spark with the fuel lines. I know that if the
fuel is leaking it probably will cause problems anyway and that a spark
probably would not effect non-leaking fuel lines, but I would personally
prefer not to add that potential danger.
Just IMHO so do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was about
the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables and
wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that fatboy
wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some serious
space.
I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is really
space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel, beneath the lid.
First is there room and second would it be cool enough to run wire in there?
Thanks,
John G
--
11:49 AM
--
11:49 AM
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
All very valid points.
Thank you.
>From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
>To: <rv10-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
>Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:08:25 -0500
>
>
>My vote would be that it is best to keep it out of the tunnel if you can.
>The only thing I would run would be low The heat is one issue, of course.
>The next issue is the amount of moving parts in there that you would have
>to
>avoid (ie. Elevator controls, flap controls, rudder cables). The third
>issue would be the fact that you would have to have quite a few screws into
>the side of the tunnel to hold the wires in cushion clamps. Another issue
>is that there is fuel in there so it would be wise to avoid having too many
>things that could cause a spark with the fuel lines. I know that if the
>fuel is leaking it probably will cause problems anyway and that a spark
>probably would not effect non-leaking fuel lines, but I would personally
>prefer not to add that potential danger.
>
>Just IMHO so do not archive.
>
>Jesse Saint
>I-TEC, Inc.
>jesse@itecusa.org
>www.itecusa.org
>W: 352-465-4545
>C: 352-427-0285
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
>Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:20 PM
>To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
>
>
>No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was about
>the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
>
>Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables and
>wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that fatboy
>wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some serious
>space.
>
>I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is really
>space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel, beneath the lid.
>First is there room and second would it be cool enough to run wire in
>there?
>
>Thanks,
>
>John G
>
>
>--
>11:49 AM
>
>
>--
>11:49 AM
>
>
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
I located my GRT AHRS and Magnetometer on a shelf behind the baggage
compartment (away from the battery). I planned for the aft wiring runs
to the AHRS and for the static plumbing forward from the static ports.
But I forgot that the pitot plumbing also needed to go aft to the AHRS.
No space left in the conduits, so I will need to run the pitot line in
the tunnel aft to the tailcone intersection.
When planning your conduit, don't forget the pressure lines.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2006 7:38 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
My vote would be that it is best to keep it out of the tunnel if you
can.
The only thing I would run would be low The heat is one issue, of
course.
The next issue is the amount of moving parts in there that you would
have to
avoid (ie. Elevator controls, flap controls, rudder cables). The third
issue would be the fact that you would have to have quite a few screws
into
the side of the tunnel to hold the wires in cushion clamps. Another
issue
is that there is fuel in there so it would be wise to avoid having too
many
things that could cause a spark with the fuel lines. I know that if the
fuel is leaking it probably will cause problems anyway and that a spark
probably would not effect non-leaking fuel lines, but I would personally
prefer not to add that potential danger.
Just IMHO so do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:20 PM
Subject: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
<indigoonlatigo@msn.com>
No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was
about
the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables and
wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that
fatboy
wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some serious
space.
I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is really
space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel, beneath the
lid.
First is there room and second would it be cool enough to run wire in
there?
Thanks,
John G
--
11:49 AM
--
11:49 AM
Message 28
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
Just with the tunnel heat we got 4 feet of Koolmat and stuck it to the
firewall....the excess we put on the tunnel floor and rear firewall at
tunnel area only. The wires ran in the tunnel are only the ones that Van has
in the plans.
I know only some have tunnel heat problems but for a little weight and cost
should help with any heat problems. As for running wires to the rear in the
tunnel a little common sense and think what if. Your the builder. So I think
we all agree.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jesse Saint" <jesse@itecusa.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:08 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
>
> My vote would be that it is best to keep it out of the tunnel if you can.
> The only thing I would run would be low The heat is one issue, of
> course.
> The next issue is the amount of moving parts in there that you would have
> to
> avoid (ie. Elevator controls, flap controls, rudder cables). The third
> issue would be the fact that you would have to have quite a few screws
> into
> the side of the tunnel to hold the wires in cushion clamps. Another issue
> is that there is fuel in there so it would be wise to avoid having too
> many
> things that could cause a spark with the fuel lines. I know that if the
> fuel is leaking it probably will cause problems anyway and that a spark
> probably would not effect non-leaking fuel lines, but I would personally
> prefer not to add that potential danger.
>
> Just IMHO so do not archive.
>
> Jesse Saint
> I-TEC, Inc.
> jesse@itecusa.org
> www.itecusa.org
> W: 352-465-4545
> C: 352-427-0285
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:20 PM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV10-List: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question.
>
>
> No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was about
> the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
>
> Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables and
> wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that fatboy
> wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some serious
> space.
>
> I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is really
> space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel, beneath the lid.
> First is there room and second would it be cool enough to run wire in
> there?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G
>
>
> --
> 11:49 AM
>
>
> --
> 11:49 AM
>
>
>
Message 29
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
They have not updated that section of the manual in a long time, IE
before the pre-punch days, so in that sense the builders were drilling
thousands of new holes, which had the likely hood of causing large burrs
to form and be trapped between surfaces, but since the advent of the
prepunched kit, there is very little additional metal being remove, thus
there is less likely a burr to form and trap between surfaces.
With that being said, I do deburr everything, but am wondering if I am
just "drinking the kool-aid" as it really adds nothing to the structure,
and if you have a heavy hand might even cause a weaker joint because of
removed material.
Here is another one to stir the pot and a proverbial war, do you always
drill before dimple? If so have you noticed that the hole is actually
larger after the dimple, causing the rivet to be sloppy in the hole,
should you just dimple the punched hole, which then accepts a -3 rivet
without as much slop? I have heard people go both ways on this,
personally I match drill. The reason I was given to match drill was that
the punch does not make a clean hole like a drill will. So with that
being said the reason I ask this is the RV12 will not be match drilled,
IE the rivet will be put directly in a pre-punched hole, and if it is
okay for that structure why not for the previous punched kits? It would
save us a huge amount of time?
Just thinking through out the day.
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
OK ask Vans!! They say deburr from Ken Kruegar chief engineer Vans!!
Chris 388
Message 30
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
James Hein wrote:
> You want noise?
>
> Okay.... here it goes.... *EGGENFELLNER SUBARU!
> *
Primed, or unprimed? *grin*
-Dj
do not archive
Message 31
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
Rudder cables go in the upper corners. You may find tiny bits
of space for running wires, but for many uses, the tunnel
is useless. If you run things there, secure them all over
the place since your controls run through there and you
don't want something hanging them up.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Gonzalez wrote:
>
> No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was
> about the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
>
> Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables and
> wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that
> fatboy wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some
> serious space.
>
> I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is really
> space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel, beneath the
> lid. First is there room and second would it be cool enough to run wire
> in there?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John G
>
Message 32
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: De Burring war! No, Tunnel question. |
Cool! Battery + fuel lines in close prox. That'll be
interesting. ;)
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Deems Davis wrote:
>
> John, I didn't run any wires in the tunnel, I believe that Mike Sausen
> ran (or is planning on running his #2 Battery /Starter wire/s in his
> tunnel, however I think he ran them lower next to the fuel lines. (check
> his web site on Kitlog.com) I know that a couple of people that have
> installed air conditioning systems have run the compressor hoses inside
> the tunnel. One consideration is that you need to drill through the
> centersection spars if you're going to run wire in there. It gets pretty
> crowded in there with Scat tubes, fuel lines and control linkages, seems
> like adding more 'stuff' in an already crowded space would be more
> difficult than running them down the side. JMHO
>
> Deems Davis # 406
> Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )
> http://deemsrv10.com/
>
> Trying to align wheel pants/fairings (a game of chance!)
>
> John Gonzalez wrote:
>
>>
>> No body truly answerred my question the other day. Every answer was
>> about the heat in the tunnel, but what I was after is:
>>
>> Did anyone use the tunnel to run any, any of their electrical cables
>> and wire. yah sure I have the side panels openned up but if I run that
>> fatboy wire or whatever it is a called, I am going to be using up some
>> serious space.
>>
>> I have not gotten to the build area where I know whether there is
>> really space in the upper left and right corners of the tunnel,
>> beneath the lid. First is there room and second would it be cool
>> enough to run wire in there?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> John G
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
This is just my experience, not a technical answer:
I have tried dimpling practice parts without drilling, I have noticed more
damage to the skin (ie. Tiny cracks) when this is done. I certainly do not
recommend dimpling without drilling. For the RV-10, the holes will not be
dimpled. I don't think the issue is that the holes won't line up well, but
rather that the hole won't handle the dimple die as well without damaging
the skin if you don't drill it out. It could be that a modified dimple die
could make a difference here, but I couldnt say for sure.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Not about Priming
They have not updated that section of the manual in a long time, IE
before the pre-punch days, so in that sense the builders were drilling
thousands of new holes, which had the likely hood of causing large burrs
to form and be trapped between surfaces, but since the advent of the
prepunched kit, there is very little additional metal being remove, thus
there is less likely a burr to form and trap between surfaces.
With that being said, I do deburr everything, but am wondering if I am
just "drinking the kool-aid" as it really adds nothing to the structure,
and if you have a heavy hand might even cause a weaker joint because of
removed material.
Here is another one to stir the pot and a proverbial war, do you always
drill before dimple? If so have you noticed that the hole is actually
larger after the dimple, causing the rivet to be sloppy in the hole,
should you just dimple the punched hole, which then accepts a -3 rivet
without as much slop? I have heard people go both ways on this,
personally I match drill. The reason I was given to match drill was that
the punch does not make a clean hole like a drill will. So with that
being said the reason I ask this is the RV12 will not be match drilled,
IE the rivet will be put directly in a pre-punched hole, and if it is
okay for that structure why not for the previous punched kits? It would
save us a huge amount of time?
Just thinking through out the day.
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
OK ask Vans!! They say deburr from Ken Kruegar chief engineer Vans!!
Chris 388
--
11:49 AM
--
11:49 AM
Message 34
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt |
The antenna I'm using with my pinpoint right now is the one
that came with my GNS-480. They have basically identical
specs. My GNS480 is using a combo antenna. Baud rate
wouldn't be a proper term, but gain or voltage would be
something to watch for. At any rate, I'm sure that the
pinpoint antenna would work with that crossbow. I have
used the same antenna that I am today, with both systems.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Scott Schmidt wrote:
>
> Tim, I was under the impression the from Direct 2 Avionics that the
> Pinpoint GPS antenna was not compatible with the Crossbow. I really
> want to put a standard aircraft GPS antenna next to my Garmin 430
> antenna then I know the problem will be fixed. I was told the baud rate
> was different between the Pinpoint and Crossbow antenna. I will give
> them a call today.
>
> Scott Schmidt
> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 7:16 AM
> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV10-List: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt
>
>
>
> See inline...
>
> Scott Schmidt wrote:
> <sschmidt@ussynthetic.com>
>
>> I don't have much to report on the Cheltons vs. the Grand Rapids yet.
> I
>> still have not been able to get my magnetometer to work on the Grand
>> Rapids. I think this then causes some other problems with the moving
>> map. I have not been at all impressed with the AHRS on the Grand
> Rapids
>> yet either. It is only completely level 50% of the time at this
> point.
>> Most of that is my fault though. It usually takes 2:30 seconds to
> align
>> and I don't have the patience. The Cheltons have been bullet proof on
>> that. No matter what angle the plane is sitting, I can be moving or
>> sitting, it is always dead on. The only issue I have with the
> Chelton's
>> right now is the GPS antenna. The Crossbow antenna is under my rear
>> fairing near the Vertical Stab and I lose signal quite often. I would
>> never try an IFR approach until I upgrade it to the PinPoint AHRS.
> The
>> Chelton's are absolutely amazing when it comes to linking with the
>> autopilot as well. I like the engine page much better on the Grand
>> Rapids though. I have been spending my time learning the Cheltons and
>> haven't given the Grand Rapids a fair shake. But if I had to pick
> one,
>> the Chelton's by far appear to be more reliable, look nicer and are
>> easier to work. Just getting the Grand Rapids to GOTO an airport is
> not
>> nearly as easy as the Cheltons. I am going to figure out my
>> magnetometer issue over the next couple of weeks. Once I get
> everything
>> working on both I will fly with both, shoot some approaches with both,
>> and get back to you all.
>>
>
> That antenna location is pretty far from ideal, I hate to say. If
> you get the antenna from D2AV that you'll use with the pinpoint,
> or even work a deal with them so you can buy that antenna, and get
> a credit when your pinpoint ships, then your options get much better.
> It's interesting that the stinkin' little antenna was actually what
> was spec'd by your current AHRS manufacturer. You really want to
> give that thing a good view from the sky. I saw Russ's reply, but
> what he doesn't know is that your AHRS isn't under the panel, so
> your best cable length would actually be if you do like me and just
> mount that antenna forward on the aluminum section of tailcone.
> The same antenna will work for the pinpoint as the crossbow. You
> do need to get a short 2' SMA to TNC cable, which I have contact
> info for if you need. But once you do that, your GPS situation will
> be great. I've actually never once lost GPS signal, and that's with
> either AHRS system.
>
>
>> As for the Grand Champion John, I hate to disappoint but I don't have
>> it. I've been to Oshkosh 12 years in a row and have looked at the
> Grand
>> Champions and the guys who just miss and the difference between the
>> Grand Champion and second place is 5000 hours. The Glasair Grand
>> Champion (a few years ago) I think spent something like 9000 hours
>> building his. It takes 6000 - 10000 hours to build a Grand Champion.
> I
>> have 3000 hours in mine and it is nice and looks great but I never
> built
>> it to be a show winner. I just wanted a nice looking plane that
> didn't
>> look "home-made" (as my friends wife calls it). I also plan to fly too
>> much to ever keep it a show winner. I have been flying now for 58
> days
>> and I have 75.4 hours on the hobbs. I already have a few chips on the
>> paint around the doors and I have one spot around my pilot window
> where
>> my fiberglass tape didn't hold up and I have a 6" crack in the paint
> at
>> the joint between the window and the door. So far I've been able to
>> prevent the crack everywhere else that a few people have been getting
> at
>> the joint between the window and the fiberglass with a 1" strip of
> light
>> fiberglass cloth. The only way to fix that is to redo the door but I
>> have way too much fun flying. Maybe I'll fix that if I have a couple
> of
>> weeks of bad flying weather. I keep scaring my wife by telling her
> that
>> we have almost used up 5% of the engine in the first two months of
>> flying.
>
> Well, your plane looks like you did nicer than me on a few things, but
> I know exactly how you feel. You're more pilot than builder, and your
> plane is more "ultra-cool-transportation" than "don't touch me and
> stand back while while my owner polishes me endlessly" to you. I've
> got rock chips in the paint, and the usual wear and tear you'd expect
> at 180 hours, but it's been way more fun flying it than just sitting
> in the chair admiring it. To me, the true beauty of the plane can
> only be seen from the front seats, when you're blasting through the
> clouds to clear skies above....or when you're cruising above some of
> the beautiful locations on our earth while moving 170kts. When I
> see people get obsessed over the shape of the interior door handles
> and things like that, I just chuckle. When I'm flying the plane,
> I don't even notice the door handles. It's what's in front of
> your eyes and out your windows that matters. I'm just glad to see
> you're getting lots of use out of your plane, and that you still
> report back here to us.
>
> Safe Flying, Scott!
> Tim
>
>> I'll get back to you on the EFIS systems when I feel like I know both
> of
>> them much better.
>>
>> Scott Schmidt
>> sschmidt@ussynthetic.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W. Cox
>> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:28 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RE: RV10-List: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt
>>
> <johnwcox@pacificnw.com>
>> Scott, my heart goes out to you.
>>
>> Randy must have known that, cause the first time I boarded N610RV he
> was
>> quick to point out that two humans (of my ballast) cannot mount the
>> RV-10 aircraft at the same point in time.
>>
>> Builders Note: Only one POB on any given step at the same point in
>> time. Share the excitement of loading for a flight - one at a time.
>>
>> Trivia from the latest FAA AC43.13-2A, Chapter Three - Page 14,
> Section
>> 38. When installed, the 3/8-16 UNC eyebolt (not provided in the kit)
> has
>> a frontal area of about 0.4231875 sq. inches and using the formula
> from
>> the AC43.13-1B that would make the factors in Drag = .000327 * Area *
>> velocity squared. So at that magic 208 mph, your drag might have been
>> as high as 5.986972368 pounds. That's no light bag of potatoes for us
>> Hot Rodders. Now what formulation did you use to convert drag factor
>> into lost mph at cruise? How are the headers working out? Do you
> have
>> any input on Grand Rapids vs. Chelton yet? Isn't your engine an
>> Aerosport?
>>
>> Hope the repair goes quickly and your painter is as good at Spot Work
> as
>> complete repaint. I am waiting for Sun N' Fun and a Grand Champion
>> RV-10. May you have gentle breezes, light tailwinds and clear skies
> into
>> the spring.
>>
>> John Cox
>> #40600
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott
> Schmidt
>> Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2006 9:21 PM
>> To: rv10-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: RV10-List: Rear Tie Down Eye Bolt
>>
>> Hi guys, just wanted to let you all know about an incident I had today
>> that could have been prevented. I flew down to Mesquite NV. last
>> Thursday and was getting ready to fly back today. As I was loading
> and
>> getting ready to fly back to Salt Lake City, I took out the eye bolts
>> for the tie downs. I then loaded two people in the back with luggage.
>> The plane was pointed slightly up hill and then both me and my friend
>> stepped on the step and the plane rocked back. I got off but the
> plane
>> continued to fall back and the tail hit the ground. It slightly bent
>> the bottom fuselage skin at the very rear and cracked the rear
>> fiberglass fairing on the rudder. I will have to replace it and
> repaint
>> it. It really isn't a big deal but I'm going to replace the whole
>> fiberglass peice. There would be no scratches or damage at all if I
>> would have left the rear tie down in. It would have hit the ground.
>> I never thought it would rock back but it did. It was on a slope and
>> the wind was blowing pretty hard that pushed the rear of the plane
> down
>> even more.
>>
>> Moral of the story: Put the eye bolt in and keep it there. Don't be
>> like me and worry about the .0345256395734 mph that you lose with the
>> eye bolt. You can still take out the wing bolts.
>>
>> Scott Schmidt
>> N104XP - 72 hours
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 35
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | =?us-ascii?Q?RE:_One_of_the_best_moves_I've_made_yet_-_Redux? |
Hi
6 weeks into the build process I have completed Vertical Stab and
*almost*
the elevators, rudders. Today I invited the local DAR over for a coffee
and
an informal review of what I have done to date. At this point everything
is
quirte open and it wa sewasy for him to see inside.
I asked for his opinion on the quality of my work to date and if there
was
anything that could be a problem in a formal inmspection. While he was
looking at my work, I pointed out all the places where I had an OOPS and
how
I fixed it. The bottom line is he was quite pleased with my work thus
far
and I now know that what I am doing is passing muster. I may not build
a
show quality antique classic (to paraphase John Cox) but I now know that
what I am building will be safe and functional.
For those like me, who didn't know what a rivet squeeze looked like 5
months
ago, I recommend getting an expert to review your work befor you are
too
far into the build process. The great thing about having DAR do an
informal
inspection is that their opinion does carry a great deal of weight.
Cheers
Les Kearney
RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab / Rudder / Elevators in various stages of
disrepair
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Les Kearney [mailto:kearney@shaw.ca]
Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 9:06 AM
Subject: One of the best moves I've made yet
Hi
Since starting to build a couple of weeks ago, I have limited my work to
things that I felt I could do without too much risk of error. Namely,
small
fabrication, priming, deburring, drilling, deburring, priming. Did I
mention
deburring?
My plan all along was to advance enough that I could then hire an
experienced builder for some detailed one on one instruction. I have
just
completed two very full days with this chap and now believe that I am
well
equipped to proceed on my own (at least for now). In October I did a two
day
"sheet metal course" that gave me the basics on a couple of small scale
"projects - a small airfoil section being one". It is a bit different
when
you are looking at a large, very expensive vertical stab skin that you
have
just spent hours prepping. The decision to get someone to look over my
shoulder and to demonstrate [proper technique and what to look for was
the
best decision I have made so far. Here's why:
On Wednesday, I started with dimpling 101. Although I had previously
dimpled
the rudder and vertical stab skins these did not meet the standard set
by
Ralph (my instructor). He demonstrated how to tell if the dimples were
correctly formed and more importantly, how to correct those that
weren't.
After redoing the dimpling, we moved on to backrivetting the rudder
stiffeners to the skins. At that point we departed from the plans and
cut an
electric trim access panel into the rudder skin. Here Ralph demonstrated
how
to cut access panel holes without deforming the skins and getting nice
clean
edges. If I had tried this on my own, I would be buying a new rudder
skin by
now! Before starting we also discussed the location of the trim tab and
we
decided to move it lower on the rudder. We also gave thought to the
rivet
pattern for the doubler and access plate, Ralph suggesting that we
consider
the esthetics of matching the existing rivet pattern when placing the
doubler and access panel.
Next we tackled the trailing edge of the rudder. Another builder
suggested
using angle aluminum to hold the trailing edge straight after the edge
wedge
was glued in. The problem with this was that the edge wedge is a wedge
and a
cleco will not sit flat on the skin due to the angle through the wedge.
To
compensate I used (temporarily) the horizontal stab wedge material to
provide a completely flat clecoing surface. The cleco went through:
* Extra edge wedge (pointing forward)
* Rudder edge wedge (point aft of course)
* Rudder skin
* Angle aluminum
Every hole was clecoed overnight while the glue set. The next morning I
had
a perfectly straight rudder skin and edge wedge.
Thursday morning Ralph showed me how to use a carpenter's angle to check
that the rib flange angles were correct. This would ensure that the
skins
wouldn't pucker due to the rib flanges being bent to far in/out. We
riveted
the trim access panel double and also fabricated a cover plate. Here I
was
shown how to bend the cover plate edges so that the plate would sit flat
on
the doubler (and the corners wouldn't turn up).
We then discussed how the trim servo would be mounted and decided we
could
cut the servo cable into the skin as well given that we sorted out where
the
trim tab would be and how great it's range of movement would be. I cut
this
hole, finished it and trimmed a rudder cable fairing to fit. We riveted
it
on and then stood back being quite smug with our work!
We completed the rudder back riveting and spliced the two sides together
with op rivets. I then started setting the trailing edge rivets with my
squeezer. After back riveting the trailing edge, I now have a rudder
that is
al most complete - a rudder with an arrow straight trailing edge.
Late in the day, we still hadn't bucked any vertical stab rivets. This
was
the last bit of "experience" I wanted. We setup and Ralph gave me a step
by
step instruction on how to rivet these skins and what to be careful of
so as
not to dent the skins. He spent time on how to hold the bucking bar, how
to
ensure you are on the rivet and how to rivet very carefully. He also
warned
me to not use my mushroom set and to get a swivel set. After doing a few
rivets, I understand why. Before we called it a day, we completed about
half
of one side of the stab skin. Perhaps the hardest part for Ralph was
watching me rivet the forward center rivets of the skin, perhaps the
riskiest of the lot. But they came out fine!
There must have been a hundred different thgings Ralh showed me
including
how to use my tools correctly and a few oithes to buy. Most importantly,
I
was able to make a lot of mistakes (not fatal) and was shown how to
correct
them. Also, I learned a great deal about how to work with aluminium - if
nothing else, the rudder trim "extra" was invaluble in this respect.
This may be a bit rambling, but it was a fun couple of days. For any one
else who has 0, zero, nadda, zilch, zippo experience like I do (did),
this
is a great way to build confidence and acquire skills. Unforrttunately
spending two weeks a buikld center was impossible and in many respects,
I
believe that this approach was better. I used my tools, in my work area
and
I have an umbilicus to an individual who knows me and my project. The
cost
was also a fraction of the cost of build center.
Cheers
Les Kearney
RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab / Rudder in various stages of disrepair
Do not archive
Message 36
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: portable gps systems |
I can't say enough good things about the Lowrance iWay 500c. We use in
the cars, the RV, and on the motorcycles. In a van you might need an
external antenna. It has a huge color screen. One drawback is you have
to keep cool air flow to the back, especially in the summer if it's next
to the windshield.
David M.
Bill and Tami Britton wrote:
> This is a little off beat but if there's any group that knows gps
> systems, it's this one. I'm looking at buying my wife a portable GPS
> system for her van for Christmas. I'm going to try to keep it under
> $500ish. Has anybody done any research on the different units
> available (TOMTOM, Magellan, Garmin, etc...). It won't get a lot of
> use (we live in rural Kansas) which is why I want to keep the price
> down. However, I've been in vehicles with similar units and in my
> opinion they are very nice for getting around unfamiliar areas.
>
> Any ideas/opinions on choices???
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Bill Britton
> RV-10 emp (still)
> #40137
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 37
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Not about Priming |
Yeah, remember the RV-12 is being pre-punched to size, and the RV-10 is
pre-punched undersized, hence our match drilling. Also, the RV-12 is pop
riveted I believe, which helps take up some builder inexperience.
Rob Wright
#392
Fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jesse Saint
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:49 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Not about Priming
This is just my experience, not a technical answer:
I have tried dimpling practice parts without drilling, I have noticed more
damage to the skin (ie. Tiny cracks) when this is done. I certainly do not
recommend dimpling without drilling. For the RV-10, the holes will not be
dimpled. I don't think the issue is that the holes won't line up well, but
rather that the hole won't handle the dimple die as well without damaging
the skin if you don't drill it out. It could be that a modified dimple die
could make a difference here, but I couldn't say for sure.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse@itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
W: 352-465-4545
C: 352-427-0285
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 4:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Not about Priming
They have not updated that section of the manual in a long time, IE
before the pre-punch days, so in that sense the builders were drilling
thousands of new holes, which had the likely hood of causing large burrs
to form and be trapped between surfaces, but since the advent of the
prepunched kit, there is very little additional metal being remove, thus
there is less likely a burr to form and trap between surfaces.
With that being said, I do deburr everything, but am wondering if I am
just "drinking the kool-aid" as it really adds nothing to the structure,
and if you have a heavy hand might even cause a weaker joint because of
removed material.
Here is another one to stir the pot and a proverbial war, do you always
drill before dimple? If so have you noticed that the hole is actually
larger after the dimple, causing the rivet to be sloppy in the hole,
should you just dimple the punched hole, which then accepts a -3 rivet
without as much slop? I have heard people go both ways on this,
personally I match drill. The reason I was given to match drill was that
the punch does not make a clean hole like a drill will. So with that
being said the reason I ask this is the RV12 will not be match drilled,
IE the rivet will be put directly in a pre-punched hole, and if it is
okay for that structure why not for the previous punched kits? It would
save us a huge amount of time?
Just thinking through out the day.
Dan
N289DT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie
Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Not about Priming
<VHMUM@bigpond.com>
OK ask Vans!! They say deburr from Ken Kruegar chief engineer Vans!!
Chris 388
--
11:49 AM
--
11:49 AM
Message 38
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Not about Priming |
We use a #41 drill bit which allows the rivets to fit a little tighter after
dimpling and non-dimpled holes take the rivet just fine also.
I tip I learned from my mentor, Jack Hakes.
Kevin
40494
tail/empennage
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR@wernerco.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2006 1:53 PM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: Not about Priming
(snip)
Here is another one to stir the pot and a proverbial war, do you always
> drill before dimple? If so have you noticed that the hole is actually
> larger after the dimple, causing the rivet to be sloppy in the hole,
> should you just dimple the punched hole, which then accepts a -3 rivet
> without as much slop?
> Dan
> N289DT
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|